Illegal Drugs

[crink]

I am very good at arguing Dr.Paul's views with others. I have converted many of my friends. But there is only one argument I can never win, and that is on the war on drugs. I know that governement should not be able to tell you what drugs you can and cannot use but I have a hard time getting others to believe that were better off without government intervention in this aspect. What can i say to make people understand?

[Galileo Galilei]

I am very good at arguing Dr.Paul's views with others. I have converted many of my friends. But there is only one argument I can never win, and that is on the war on drugs. I know that governement should not be able to tell you what drugs you can and cannot use but I have a hard time getting others to believe that were better off without government intervention in this aspect.

The war on drugs is unconstitutional, illegal, immoral and racist.

[m72mc]

its a medical problem. you need those addicted to get off the drugs not in prison.

[crink]

But how do you convince people that drugs should be legal?

[iratus]

Remember, there is a distinction between the federal and state jurisdictions. He wants to abolish the federal war on drugs-- the states are free to regulate drugs. In fact, all of them have adequate laws on the books for this.

Don't forget to mention the costs of the war on drugs, and the disparity of enforcement with regards to minorities. Do your homework, it's a very compelling argument if you can get it out the right way.

[jake]

1. See alcohol prohibition
2. Hard statistics that show the war on drugs is an abysmal failure (can anyone provide a link for this? I know the statistics are horrible, something like <1% of illicit drugs are stopped at the border)
3. Dirty needles, addicts should be treated with compassion, not thrown in jail (as long as they aren't harming others or private property of course)
4. The unfair targeting of minorities in the war on drugs
5. Individual choice and freedom

[ASayre]

Convince them it's a state issue, just as it is with alcohol, or fireworks, etc. (Or should be)

States and counties control where it's sold and when it can be sold - Can/should/would be the same with drugs.

[TheEvilDetector]

I am very good at arguing Dr.Paul's views with others. I have converted many of my friends. But there is only one argument I can never win, and that is on the war on drugs. I know that governement should not be able to tell you what drugs you can and cannot use but I have a hard time getting others to believe that were better off without government intervention in this aspect.

I believe that Ron Paul is against the federal government being involved in drugs.

That is the constitutional position.

I do not believe he has ever stated that he wants all levels of government to stop being involved, even if he did, he (as president of a constitutional republic) would recognise that under the constitution, he may neither prohibit the enforcement of nor coerce into passing any drug laws at the state or local level.

I believe that his view is that the War on Drugs is very unfair to minorities, too expensive and violates state laws eg. medical marijuana laws.

State/Local governments are generally more responsive to the people, therefore, each area may have laws and regulations better suited to the people living there.

[pcosmar]

The War on drugs is yet another war that cannot be won.
The cost is prohibitive, and it is a massive failure.
It destroys families, strips Civil liberty and has no end.
Humans have been using substances since the beginning of time.

What is the plus side again?

[tamor]

I do not believe RP is saying all drugs should be legal or not legal. I believe he is stressing that the federal government does not have the right to pass legislation negating state laws on this issue. Also, there is a difference between legalization and decriminalization. It should be up to the states..

[CountryRoads]

All the other arguments against the drug war work great because the drug war is illegal in itself under the constitution.

Think about this, however. Drug gangs thrive in jails. The Arian Brotherhood etc etc recruit people in jails and drug addicts who go to jails, or even just potheads or pot growers that go to jail can be forced to join a gang, move onto selling hard drugs or be killed or raped in jail. Jail does not rehabilitate, it debilitates. Think about that.

[m72mc]

But how do you convince people that drugs should be legal?

lets look at it this way... in my country sweden it used to be legal to use drugs, but not to sell. (now its not, but its usually a fine for using, but prison if you sell)

with prostitutes, its not illegal to offer, but to buy.

the reasoning for this is because, drug users and prostitutes are seen as victims, due to addiction or circumstances.

If a drug user goes to jail, he wont get off drugs, its easy to get that in prison.
so it wont solve the problem.

[Quick]

Just talk about alcohol prohibition. The government knew that it couldn't legislate virtue, and knew they had to amend the Constitution to outlaw alcohol.

Obviously, like all prohibition, it failed. It goes with the drug laws. Drug abuse is a medical problem as alcohol abuse is. If someone who has consumed alcohol kills someone, they go to jail. Same with any other drug. But to lock up non-violent drug offenders doesn't make sense. The Constitution gives the government no authority to say what someone can or can't consume.

Simply put.. you cannot legislate virtue.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes..


"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of Temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes at the very principles upon which our government was founded." - Abraham Lincoln

[crink]

Thank you. These are all such great points.

[idrake]

If you're in a group of friends ask them to raise their hand if they ever used illegal drugs.

Then ask those with their hands down to raise their hand if they'd take drugs if they were legal.

Typically, when I do this with 10 people.
4 raise their hand on the first question
1 person would take drugs if legal

So, if 40% took drugs despite the law and only 10% would take drugs without the law, then how effective is the law? Why are we spending 20+ billion a year when it doesn't even come close to solving the problem?

[trey4sports]

violates bill of rights
gov't was created to protect freedoms and liberties not set morals
prohibition fuels the problem
gangs are created due to prohibition
drug abuse is a moral problem, govt cant force you to have better habits
clogging prisons and jails for a worthless cause
only benefits the prison-industrial complex

[Duckman]

The only thing I can or will add to this is that IMO there has been alot of disinformation regarding drugs leading to a false belief on the part of the public that drug use can never be moderate or responsible like alcohol use can be, and instead always leads to life-destroying addictions. It is this false belief that perpetuates the reasoning that drugs should be outlawed at any cost.

[Goldwater Conservative]

If drugs are illegal, a black market will arise to continue supplying them. However, there will be far fewer suppliers, which means significantly higher prices and consequently greater profits. Those obscene profits give drug suppliers an incentive to become violent and the resource to buy arms, thus increasing crime (the same thing happened during alcohol prohibition).

On the demand side, higher prices means drug consumers are more likely to become bankrupt satisfying their habit, and when they need more money they too will turn to crime.

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

People should be able to use as many drugs as they want to so long as they are not infringing on any other person's personal liberties.

if i want to spend all my free time getting drunk at the bar (and take a cab) or my home, i'm able to do so.

why can't i do the same with a joint?

[Todd]

I am very good at arguing Dr.Paul's views with others. I have converted many of my friends. But there is only one argument I can never win, and that is on the war on drugs. I know that governement should not be able to tell you what drugs you can and cannot use but I have a hard time getting others to believe that were better off without government intervention in this aspect. What can i say to make people understand?

It is hypocrisy:
Two of the most addictive drugs in the world are alcohol and nicotine. Alcohol is the only drug that can kill you from detoxification (DTS). So why is it legal? I have watched someone almost die from coming down off alcohol..it ain't pretty.

[Voluntaryist]

But how do you convince people that drugs should be legal?

Ask them if they ever did any drugs, and when they say yes, ask them if they turned themselves into the police. Then ask why not, etc?

Ask them if they think that YOU should go to jail for doing drugs. If they say no, ask them why not?

Ask them if they can name ANYONE who they personally know who they think should go to jail for using drugs.

I remember a time when I was watching this kid talk about how drugs should not be legal cause its so bad for society, etc... AS HE WAS SMOKING POT! I asked him to turn himself in... that didnt go over so well.

In the end, I got him to concede that drug laws were bad and I referred him to htp://www.leap.cc which is a FANTASTIC site :)

[acptulsa]

Weed has been tested and studied ad infinitum and found to have few ill effects. The pharmaceutical giants, however, dislike it. Look at the market and the money in anti-depressants. God invented weed, so they can't patent it. So, we pay taxes, ruin the lives of depression sufferers and stick our cops out in harm's way so the pharma-giants can make more money on their patent medicines. And if a poor sufferer from depression isn't on health insurance? So sorry, Charlie.

[Sesshomaru]

First you can say how it discriminates against the poor and minorities.

Next, you can say that the pharm companies lobby congress to decide whats legal and not.

You can point to the increase in violent crime from having prohibition, just look at alcohol. Ask them if they would stop drinking if alcohol became illegal (which kills more people than drugs).

the list goes on

[TaiwanGuy]

from leap.cc :

After nearly four decades of fueling the U.S. policy of a war on drugs with over a trillion tax dollars and 37 million arrests for nonviolent drug offenses, our confined population has quadrupled making building prisons the fastest growing industry in the United States. More than 2.2 million of our citizens are currently incarcerated and every year we arrest an additional 1.9 million more guaranteeing those prisons will be bursting at their seams. Every year we choose to continue this war will cost U.S. taxpayers another 69 billion dollars. Despite all the lives we have destroyed and all the money so ill spent, today illicit drugs are cheaper, more potent, and far easier to get than they were 35 years ago at the beginning of the war on drugs. Meanwhile, people continue dying in our streets while drug barons and terrorists continue to grow richer than ever before. We would suggest that this scenario must be the very definition of a failed public policy. This madness must cease!

The stated goals of current U.S.drug policy -- reducing crime, drug addiction, and juvenile drug use -- have not been achieved, even after nearly four decades of a policy of "war on drugs". This policy, fueled by over a trillion of our tax dollars has had little or no effect on the levels of drug addiction among our fellow citizens, but has instead resulted in a tremendous increase in crime and in the numbers of Americans in our prisons and jails. With 4.6% of the world's population, America today has 22.5% of the worlds prisoners. But, after all that time, after all the destroyed lives and after all the wasted resources, prohibited drugs today are cheaper, stronger, and easier to get than they were thirty-five years ago at the beginning of the so-called "war on drugs". With this in mind, we current and former members of law enforcement have created a drug-policy reform movement -- LEAP. We believe that to save lives and lower the rates of disease, crime and addiction. as well as to conserve tax dollars, we must end drug prohibition. LEAP believes that a system of regulation and control of production and distribution will be far more effective and ethical than one of prohibition. We do this in hopes that we in Law Enforcement can regain the public's respect and trust, which have been greatly diminished by our involvement in imposing drug prohibition. Please consider joining us. You don't have to be a cop to join LEAP! Find out more about us by reading some of the articles in our Publications section or by watching and listening to some of our multimedia clips,. You can also read about the men and women who speak for LEAP, and see what we have on the calendar for the near future.

[DealzOnWheelz]

The federal govt spends $6 billion a year on the war on drugs and the percentage of drug users and drugs in the country has not gone down at all.

If we legalized the industrial use of hemp it would create $7 billion in revenue. Hemp produces 3 times as much ethanol as corn and is 2 to 3 times easier to maintain and produce and actually grows more prevelantly in northern colder climates.


Also explain to them the racial issue with the war on drugs and how racist it is.

17% of african americans are involved with drug dealing or using yet 67% of inmates convicted of minor drug offenses are Minorities.

The jail time for a small amount of crack is approx. 5 years. You would need 16 times more powder cocaine to get the same time. 82% of powder cocaine users/dealers are white whereas 87% of crack user/dealers are black. The punsihment is generally harsher towards african americans and the courts usually throw the book at them.

Also Ron Paul will not make drugs legal but he will de-regulate it at the federal level. So the federal govt will not be able to arrest citizens in states like California and conneticut where marijuanna is legal for medicinal use.

[RPCanadian]

I am very good at arguing Dr.Paul's views with others. I have converted many of my friends. But there is only one argument I can never win, and that is on the war on drugs. I know that governement should not be able to tell you what drugs you can and cannot use but I have a hard time getting others to believe that were better off without government intervention in this aspect. What can i say to make people understand?

Countries in Europe which really do not have a strict prohibition on drugs actually have a lower rate of drug use than the US. The Netherlands is an excellent example.

[Ninja Homer]

Here's a very good article on the war on drugs:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/17438347/how_america_lost_the_war_on_drugs

[JMann]

You can point out that 1,986,467,953,234,679 drugs are legal and about 10 are not. DRUGS ARE ALREADY LEGAL for the most part.

Watching a COPS episode this weekend. This guy is walking behind a store and cop comes up to him and ask the guy can he search him, for no reason, the guy consents. They find a crack pipe on him and he is already on probation. Cop tells the guy this means you are looking at at least 1.5 years in prison for breaking probation. F'ing wonderful, the taxpayers are now going to spend over 100k on this guy keeping him alive in prison because he happened to get stopped by the cops and was searched. WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY. This guy was bothering no one.

O! admitted to using cocaine but because he wasn't caught he may very well be the next president of the United States. Had he had the misfortune of running into a cop he could be in prison instead of running for president. Bush used cocaine and he wasn't caught either. It is incredibly unfair to poor people because they live in areas where the cops bother residents where as they don't spend much time doing searches without a warrant on people living in Martha's Vineyard.

My biggest problem with Reagan is that he declared war on the American people when he declared a war on drugs.

[skeryl]

http://www.drugwardistortions.org/

This is one of the best sites you can refer to , to prove your case. It sites several distortions by govt and proves how it is untrue with statistical numbers and facts.

[caradeporra]

why should drugs be illegal? The drugs that the medical industry creates can be just as harmful, yet they remain legal.

[roshi]

http://forums.mapletip.com/index.php?showtopic=115797

I was debating with this antidrug guy and I pretty much got him. I also debate at school in my psychology class regarding drugs and my teacher is pretty much for legalizing drugs.

1. People will always do drugs no matter what
2. Legalizing drugs kills the black market that will lower gang violence and drug lords
3. Rehab is better than labeling something illegal
4. Education is better than scaring people that it's illegal

Enjoy ;D

[cheese]

bottom line: drug use is a medical/health problem - exactly like alcoholism and tobacco addiction. It should be treated as such. We dont have laws forcing people to go on diets. These are health issues.

[crink]

Awesome! I used to be scared of this topic but now I know what to say.