Ill be honest, im actually frightened..

[gharalam]

With the Real ID Act ready to go underweight in May, and the immense support these candidates have who want to purge our country and sovereignties into oblivion... I am actually scared.

How did it get this bad? Why do people continue to fight for despotism and socialism instead of our thinking about our sovereignty ?

Ugh just seeing a new article on the real id guidelines made my stomach turn and put me in a real shitty mood.

[defcreative]

You are one of many who don't want to have Nazi-esque "Papers".

Continue to try to get others to understand and support Ron Paul.

[Indy Vidual]

Sieg Heil!!!
`````````

I've changed from a bit hopeful to... :eek:

[Trigonx]

why don't people see this like us.... it baffles me.

[Ron2Win]

At the rate things are going the USA will be a police state in less than 25 years.

Tazers, National ID, Patriot act, "Homegrown Terrorist Act", Blackwater, KBR, Secret Prisons, Torture and so forth.

[justinc.1089]

Are the new driver's licenses people under a certain age are going to be forced to get the national id cards?

Because I thought the national id would be introduced with the Real ID act?

And do these new tamper proof licenses have tracking chips inside them?

Because all this stuff I have heard about new licenses being forced on people is almost as scary as the national id. (It might be because they might be the same thing idk lol)

[justinc.1089]

At the rate things are going the USA will be a police state in less than 25 years.

Tazers, National ID, Patriot act, "Homegrown Terrorist Act", Blackwater, KBR, Secret Prisons, Torture and so forth.

Na I give it 3 if we don't get Paul elected because that means Clinton will be elected probably.

[Dorfsmith]

1/4 of the people say it won't happen here.
1/4 of the people don't care about anything.
1/4 of the people think it's a great idea.

And, 1/4 of the people are like us losing sleep at night.

That's just my guess :(

[paulette]

At the rate things are going the USA will be a police state in less than 25 years.

Tazers, National ID, Patriot act, "Homegrown Terrorist Act", Blackwater, KBR, Secret Prisons, Torture and so forth.

Much less than 25, I'm afraid.

[paulette]

1/4 of the people say it won't happen here.
1/4 of the people don't care about anything.
1/4 of the people think it's a great idea.

And, 1/4 of the people are like us losing sleep at night.

That's just my guess :(


Don't forget the LARGE percentage who have NO CLUE this is even going on.

[dkim68]

Why do people continue to fight for despotism and socialism instead of our thinking about our sovereignty?
Because... THIS is what the majority of Americans look like when faced with the truth:
http://www.pensionriskmatters.com/wildlife-monkeys-hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-speak-no-evil.jpg

[BreakYourChains]

With the Real ID Act ready to go underweight in May, and the immense support these candidates have who want to purge our country and sovereignties into oblivion... I am actually scared.

How did it get this bad? Why do people continue to fight for despotism and socialism instead of our thinking about our sovereignty ?

Ugh just seeing a new article on the real id guidelines made my stomach turn and put me in a real shitty mood.

This is another reason why people who watch Lou Dobbs on CNN have to start seeing his real agenda! His agenda is the Real ID! It is hard to see it, as he talks about NAU and SPP and illegal immigration, but he also is all for biometric ID's and securing the border with technology. Last night, Dobb's even approved of John McCain's immigration policy, even though McCain still wants amnesty buried deep in his platform (or what I have understood it to be. I have not read it myself). It is not about keeping the illegals out. It is about keeping track of inventory - us. It is about keeping us in....

[Ron2Win]

It starts small in the name of decency. and from there it grows.

Just watch live TV from 20 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHB2I83_N_k

[Fox McCloud]

1/4 of the people say it won't happen here.
1/4 of the people don't care about anything.
1/4 of the people think it's a great idea.

And, 1/4 of the people are like us losing sleep at night.

That's just my guess :(

I'd say 80% of people don't have a clue or care anything about it.
50% of the people think it's a good idea if "used properly"
and I'd say only about 10-15% of us really know what's going on, why, and where it's all headed.

if Ron doesn't get it, I predict Martial law on or before 2010.

[justinc.1089]

Would someone mind answering my questions I posted? Because I really don't want to have some national id card. I want to know what I'm in for before they let me know whats going on when I have to get a new license whenever that takes effect.

[Benaiah]

//

[Dorfsmith]

I'd say 80% of people don't have a clue or care anything about it.
50% of the people think it's a good idea if "used properly"
and I'd say only about 10-15% of us really know what's going on, why, and where it's all headed.

if Ron doesn't get it, I predict Martial law on or before 2010.

You're probably right :(

[RonPauledbyYoutube]

Would someone mind answering my questions I posted? Because I really don't want to have some national id card. I want to know what I'm in for before they let me know whats going on when I have to get a new license whenever that takes effect.

My friend, I'm so sorry to say this, but if RP doesn't win, we will have it in place. If we refuse to accept it, we will be in for a hard time. Many of our liberties and priveleges will be stripped from us. We won't be able to do many basic things like drive without it. So prep up for a huge fight. We need RP NOW!!!

[paulette]

Would someone mind answering my questions I posted? Because I really don't want to have some national id card. I want to know what I'm in for before they let me know whats going on when I have to get a new license whenever that takes effect.

These should be helpful:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/11/real.id.ap/index.html

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/nat_id_cards_by_2008.htm

The Real ID Act is truly frightening. I'm renewing my license early, before May.

[Zydeco]

We're so set up for a false flag followed by legislation that it's not even funny.

Chertoff Homeland Security head
Mukasey at Justice
consumers maxed out on credit, as raped by Wall Street as they can be
FEMA camps all set up and staffed
Police armed with tasers and used to using them without consequences
People still fearful and propagandized by 9/11

I wonder how they're going to do it now, though. Cell phone cameras + youtube complicates things, which is why I bet they'll choose nuclear terrorism in a U.S. city or bioterror attack instead of a 9/11 reprise.

Anyway, our lives will change this year...:eek:

[Rebel Resource]

At the rate things are going the USA will be a police state in less than 25 years.



Give it a decade.....25 for implanted chips maybe.

[parke]

I got one for you.

Imagine a depression only we dont have rights. Will our government ever kidnap those who dissent? Whats going to happen if the people ever need to stand up? Whats going to happen to those who do?

Without our rights, what has our country become?

Scary indeed.

[RonPauledbyYoutube]

Give it a decade.....25 for implanted chips maybe.

I'ld say shorter-term. If RP is a big threat to the agenda, we might see something big this year and Bush could suspend the elections, cancel the Constitution (which will cause strife) and declare martial law, all at once. We might be in for a major surprise.

[evan2024]

Everyone write your state delegates and senators. They are the key. They can stand up against it like the legislature did in New Hampshire.

[justinc.1089]

Well at least we can all say Ron Paul has brought together at least a solid 5% of the population against this stuff. I think the best thing we could ever plan to do is to all go to Alaska somewhere together honestly, because we would be safer in Alaska, and we would not have to rely on the internet to communicate. Or better yet, we could be choosing some remote country to go to together if we can't get Paul in there.

Its hard to imagine this stuff like national ids, homegrown terrorism, and even chipping people possibly becoming reality, but it is. Its sad too because America was the last free place in the world really as far as government, and now it seems to be becoming more of a threat to the little freedom in the rest of the world instead of offering more freedom.:mad::(

[gaazn]

they overexaggerated the illegal immigration "problem" to try to get national id card

[TER]

The problems as I see it, unfortunately, is that the more we struggle, the greater they will fight us in return. The more freedoms we wish to restore, the more they will have to restrain. The beast the government has become is in self-preservation mode, and while so, it will continue to chip away every bit of freedom and strength we have.

The fight is now! Today and tomorrow!

We will not end until there is justice!

Give me liberty! Or give me death!

[paulette]

We're so set up for a false flag followed by legislation that it's not even funny.

Chertoff Homeland Security head
Mukasey at Justice
consumers maxed out on credit, as raped by Wall Street as they can be
FEMA camps all set up and staffed
Police armed with tasers and used to using them without consequences
People still fearful and propagandized by 9/11

I wonder how they're going to do it now, though. Cell phone cameras + youtube complicates things, which is why I bet they'll choose nuclear terrorism in a U.S. city or bioterror attack instead of a 9/11 reprise.

Anyway, our lives will change this year...:eek:


I may get jumped for saying this, but I don't care.

I believe, in my gut, that there will be no election in November.

[Nicketas]

,.,.

[pacelli]

Are the new driver's licenses people under a certain age are going to be forced to get the national id cards?

Because I thought the national id would be introduced with the Real ID act?

And do these new tamper proof licenses have tracking chips inside them?

Because all this stuff I have heard about new licenses being forced on people is almost as scary as the national id. (It might be because they might be the same thing idk lol)

Yes, anyone under 50 will be required to get the new driver's license which has a built-in Real ID, I think there is a 5-year transition period. This is basically an underhanded way of having a national ID card with biometric data on it. They are denying that there are microchips in them, somehow I doubt that is accurate. Either way, you'll have to let them scan your fingerprint and / or retina in order to get it.

[JimInNY]

At the rate things are going the USA will be a police state in less than 25 years.



Newsflash! It already is. hehehe

[justinc.1089]

Yes, anyone under 50 will be required to get the new driver's license which has a built-in Real ID, I think there is a 5-year transition period. This is basically an underhanded way of having a national ID card with biometric data on it. They are denying that there are microchips in them, somehow I doubt that is accurate. Either way, you'll have to let them scan your fingerprint and / or retina in order to get it.

Someone should get one and tear it apart somehow to see if there is a chip in it or not for sure.

[Xonox]

I don't think we're quite a police state yet... and I think it would take another september 11th type even before we the people would submit and completely abandon the constitution. In the mean time the Fascists will have to do with trimming it down. They can find ways to get around the bill of rights and tip elections in their direction under people's noses for the most part. It's certainly not good, but it just dosen't affect people enough for them to take notice. Real ID is pushing the envelope though. If they continue on this path much longer they'll have their war, but this time it will be a bit closer to home.

[Paultergeist]

Two things everyone should be doing RIGHT NOW:

1. Buy a gun.

2. Learn to shoot.

Next? Don't let them take it, or any other rights we possess today that they may not want individuals to possess tomorrow.

[justinc.1089]

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do about the national id card. SC is a state fighting it, so hopefully that will buy me a lot of time, but I mean I'm not taking it, but that will mean I at the very least won't be able to drive anywhere.

[pacelli]

I may get jumped for saying this, but I don't care.

I believe, in my gut, that there will be no election in November.

Strange you bring this up-- I've heard from several different non-conspiracy-type people off-line who have said the exact same statement.

[justinc.1089]

Two things everyone should be doing RIGHT NOW:

1. Buy a gun.

2. Learn to shoot.

Next? Don't let them take it, or any other rights we possess today that they may not want individuals to possess tomorrow.

Good thinking. I was thinking about that the other day that I need to start shooting a lot more. I used to play tournament paintball so I have great gunskills. I went to a training clinic with a pro one time, and won a 1 on 3 at a tournament one time too. There was college paintball on the other day on some channel if anyone happened to catch it lol.

But I haven't played that in like a year, and haven't shot real guns much either. I think its time to start practicing again though. Target shooting is fun anyway, especially long range shooting or skeet shooting.

[pacelli]

We're so set up for a false flag followed by legislation that it's not even funny.

Chertoff Homeland Security head
Mukasey at Justice
consumers maxed out on credit, as raped by Wall Street as they can be
FEMA camps all set up and staffed
Police armed with tasers and used to using them without consequences
People still fearful and propagandized by 9/11

I wonder how they're going to do it now, though. Cell phone cameras + youtube complicates things, which is why I bet they'll choose nuclear terrorism in a U.S. city or bioterror attack instead of a 9/11 reprise.

Anyway, our lives will change this year...:eek:

Well now the public has been conditioned to see taser use as something to laugh at -- the infamous "don't taze me, bro" -- and that specific instance was related to a man asking John Kerry a question about his Skull & Bones club involvement when he was at Yale. In the mind of the general public, people who get tazed deserve it.

And please don't forget that we now have an Air Force General as the head of the "civilian" CIA (Hayden).

[Zydeco]

Congressman John Olver (D-MA) is on record worrying that Bush may declare martial law and cancel the 2008 elections.

http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218347

How the fuck did we get here?

[Paultergeist]

Shooting is a great hobby, it's fun to keep up the practice, and most importantly, its your right as an American citizen to own firearms. Make no mistake about it, there is no "interpretation" issues to be had here, there's no mistaking why that is in the Constitution. It is the duty of the people to overthrow their government if it becomes tyrannical. There's nothing conspiricy-theorist or un-American about invoking your rights.

[pacelli]

they overexaggerated the illegal immigration "problem" to try to get national id card

True, and, the national id card won't impact illegal immigration at all.

[justinc.1089]

Another good idea is to have a gun thats not on record somehow. That way, if they try to confiscate weapons for this or that reason, you could give the ones up they think you have, but you would still be safe.

[pacelli]

I honestly don't know what I'm going to do about the national id card. SC is a state fighting it, so hopefully that will buy me a lot of time, but I mean I'm not taking it, but that will mean I at the very least won't be able to drive anywhere.

Renew or get your driver's license now, and then you'll have the entire time until it expires, or, the end of the transition period, to think further on the issue.

[justinc.1089]

Renew or get your driver's license now, and then you'll have the entire time until it expires, or, the end of the transition period, to think further on the issue.

I have a license now, I guess I should go renew it soon. But I honestly don't have much thinking to do about the national id card- I just can't take it. I will have to find out what the exact deal is with it from some other people, but from what I know right now I don't think I could do it. I would have to figure out how to live not being able to drive or have id I guess.

Are states that are fighting it going to have it too? Or will it not be in those states for awhile?

[madRazor]

Two things everyone should be doing RIGHT NOW:

1. Buy a gun.

2. Learn to shoot.

Next? Don't let them take it, or any other rights we possess today that they may not want individuals to possess tomorrow.

I have done this (first timer) during the last year, largely because of my involvement with the movement... I wonder if that's the case with others? Hopefully so.

[Paultergeist]

It just must be understood. Our job in promoting a message of peace and liberty is also to help people understand that their security and freedom are at a much greater risk from Capitol Hill than any threat posed by Iran, Pakistan, China, or anywhere outside of Washington, D.C.

[justinc.1089]

It just must be understood. Our job in promoting a message of peace and liberty is also to help people understand that their security and freedom are at a much greater risk from Capitol Hill than any threat posed by Iran, Pakistan, China, or anywhere outside of Washington, D.C.

Its too bad they believe their televisions more than us though.:(:(

[Wyurm]

First, it is mentioned above, but I will say it once again: we are already in a police state. Second, you already have a national ID if you have a driver's licence. They get all the info they need from databases (source: http://www.copwatch.org/databaseabuse.html) Thirdly, you lost the freedom of speech already, its just being slowly shown to be that way. The idea is to get most people to self-censor. Fourthly, this is NOT the first time things have been like this, however, it is the second time they have been bad in America and I dare say this is worse than just before the American Revolution.

5) You have likely heard alot of conspiracy theories about what is happening to America. A conspiracy is defined as a crime committed by 2 or more people. A theory is speculation without hard evidence. If you wanted to keep people from knowing you were committing a crime, it might be a good idea to change the meaning of conspiracy to mean "crazy made up story" and evidence to mean "proof that a government entity has accepted". FYI a large majority of the laws passed by our government are crimes against the people via the Constitution and they were passed by more than 2 people. 6) Right vs. Left is long gone, replaced by Nationalist vs. Globalist. The Globalists are winning.

7) They can be beaten but ther opposition must, I repeat, MUST be on the same page and working together. 8) I suspect June of 2009 will be the point at which nobody will be able to deny what is happening and will also be our bleakest point if we don't hurry up and do something. 9) This is why alot of us believe Dr. Paul is our LAST hope. It is scary, but there is hope in the form of this campaign. Look how many people have become aware of their situation already.

Everything will be ok, just stay positive and keep on fighting.

[justinc.1089]

First, it is mentioned above, but I will say it once again: we are already in a police state. Second, you already have a national ID if you have a driver's licence. They get all the info they need from databases (source: http://www.copwatch.org/databaseabuse.html) Thirdly, you lost the freedom of speech already, its just being slowly shown to be that way. The idea is to get most people to self-censor. Fourthly, this is NOT the first time things have been like this, however, it is the second time they have been bad in America and I dare say this is worse than just before the American Revolution.

5) You have likely heard alot of conspiracy theories about what is happening to America. A conspiracy is defined as a crime committed by 2 or more people. A theory is speculation without hard evidence. If you wanted to keep people from knowing you were committing a crime, it might be a good idea to change the meaning of conspiracy to mean "crazy made up story" and evidence to mean "proof that a government entity has accepted". FYI a large majority of the laws passed by our government are crimes against the people via the Constitution and they were passed by more than 2 people. 6) Right vs. Left is long gone, replaced by Nationalist vs. Globalist. The Globalists are winning.

7) They can be beaten but ther opposition must, I repeat, MUST be on the same page and working together. 8) I suspect June of 2009 will be the point at which nobody will be able to deny what is happening and will also be our bleakest point if we don't hurry up and do something. 9) This is why alot of us believe Dr. Paul is our LAST hope. It is scary, but there is hope in the form of this campaign. Look how many people have become aware of their situation already.

Everything will be ok, just stay positive and keep on fighting.

Good points, I was saying that about driver's licenses earlier today. All this new stuff is just making the system extremely efficient I suppose.

[OferNave]

Move to New Hampshire! I did.

http://freestateproject.org/

[Agent CSL]

1/4 of the people say it won't happen here.
1/4 of the people don't care about anything.
1/4 of the people think it's a great idea.

And, 1/4 of the people are like us losing sleep at night.

That's just my guess :(
Uh, it's a lot less than you think.

Here's my guess:

50% of the population is oblivious.
25% doesn't care.
15% who know about it denies the Orwellianism of the idea.
9% think it's a good idea.
>1% are worried.

There's only a few thousand people who outright are worried AND informed about the REAL ID. There are not many of us.... Wyurm is right.

[Detonator]

Don't get one. Claim your religious beliefs won't allow it. Tell them you think it's the "number of the Beast" and refuse it. Or you could just nuke it in the microwave to destroy any imbedded information.
;)

[Corydoras]

I would have to figure out how to live not being able to drive or have id I guess.

Don't destroy any of your old ID cards. In my experience, places that require ID cards OTHER than planes and cars (pharmacies, hotels, storage facilities) accept old cards. The one I use for these purposes is older than some of the people on this board.

[Richandler]

Simply put, don't every get the National ID card. If a movement of enough people is cooked up then we can make sure we don't get branded.

[AceNZ]

Newsflash! It already is. hehehe

+1

-- Habeas corpus has already been suspended
-- The President has claimed the right to suspend the Constitution (and elections) in a time of crisis, without even a clear definition of a crisis
-- People are already being arrested and/or beaten for stupid reasons: not trimming their lawn to the right height, etc
-- Insane amounts of security involved with anything related to travel
-- Travel forbidden to people who are on certain "lists"
-- We have a Department of Homeland Security
-- Secret prisons
-- Torture is sanctioned by the government
-- We started wars of aggression in Afghanistan and Iraq, the same crime the Nazis were tried for at Nuremberg
-- More than one million people have now been murdered in Iraq as a result of the US occupation
-- Ralph Nader claimed (see youtube) that a Congressman told him that Congress was afraid to start impeachment proceedings against Bush and Cheney because they had threatened to nuke Iran and suspend elections if they did
-- The abomination called the Patriot Act, which now allows self-written search warrants, among other insanity
-- The US now has more people in prison per capita than any country in the world (more than 2M total, with more than 5M more in jail, on parole or on probation). With 5% of the world's population, the US has 25% of the world's incarcerated.
-- The press in the US are corrupt, with control of nearly all media resting in the hands of just 5 large corporations
-- The political parties are corrupt, offering voters a faux choice between candidates who only differ with regard to superficial issues
-- Congress is corrupt, driven by the power of lobbyists and large corporations, and have passed one unconstitutional law after another
-- New passports already have ID chips
-- Gradual but continuous erosion of 2nd amendment rights


Oh, and for those of you who are contemplating refusing to get a Real ID -- if the UK experience teaches us anything, it's that you better also be prepared to live completely off the grid if you do that. Doing any kind of banking, having a job, traveling, etc, will all likely require you to have ID.

[jesse27]

That just made me think of sam adams "If you love wealth more than liberty, and the tranquility of servitude more than freedom,depart from us, we ask not your counsel, nor your arms, lick the hand that feeds you, may your chains bear lightly upon you as posterity forgets you were ever our countrymen"

[NerveShocker]

So since the economy is on the brink.. I wonder how that fits in the picture. Maybe if it's bad enough (Depression) Bush will try to use that as an excuse instead of some terror attack.

[Benaiah]

//

[freelance]

Would someone mind answering my questions I posted? Because I really don't want to have some national id card. I want to know what I'm in for before they let me know whats going on when I have to get a new license whenever that takes effect.

Yes, it's a national ID. They can call it what they want, but it's a NATIONAL ID!

[AlbemarleNC0003]

No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. So.governments' programs, once launched, never disappear.

Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth.

[Holly]

This is a very sobering thread but I'm actually relieved to see it. Many of the things discussed here are things my husband and I have been talking about during the last few weeks. We're in our 50's ...which doesn't necessarily equate to any kind of wisdom but does take us from the possible accusation of over-reactionary youth.

I think you're right to be scared.

And I agree that it's going to be less than ten years.

One of the things that happens while watching from Canada is a bit of perspective. From this short distance we feel that we can see things many in your country can't because you're in the midst of it all. From here it is looking a bit dire....or certainly on the brink of 'dire'. It's going to be a monumental task not to take the ID card and whether or not you can win that battle will depend on the sheer numbers of people who are motivated and educated about the potential consequences of such a thing. Here in Ontario we are set for a driver's license with personal information embedded next year and this was done in conjunction with the American government.

By the way, according to Charlotte Iserbyt, the national ID card planned for the U.S. was actually designed with the help of two KGB agents. If you want the source I'll look that up and post it. Rather horrifying thought though if it's true.

Honestly though? I think you need to keep fighting but also have a back-up plan you can implement if necessary. That plan is going to probably involve moving from the U.S. I am going to guess that many of you haven't thought seriously about that but I believe you will begin to.....and especially if the November elections are cancelled. I have the same gut feeling about that.

Both my husband and I have been discussing the possible crisis that will come to either cancel the elections or create such an atmosphere of fear, the government will be able to do whatever it wants and with the consent....even the demands... of the people. Economic crisis? Attack on U.S. soil? I don't know what the plan is but one thing I can tell you is absolutely of the paramount important for each individual. ....beyond the need to roll back these terrifying laws which is obviously necessary............GET OUT OF DEBT!! Do whatever it takes to avoid credit card debt or any other for that matter.

And one other thought. IF Bush/Cheney impeachment hearings could begin this year then some of this truth just might come out. Senator Wexler is trying to get enough names on a petition so that he can introduce hearings. There are enough people here that could sign up and help make that happen.

http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/

Yes, I'm a bit scared for you too. But scared for us here too because some of this is spilling over into our country and NO ONE here seems to see it at all.

[David805]

Because... THIS is what the majority of Americans look like when faced with the truth:
http://www.pensionriskmatters.com/wildlife-monkeys-hear-no-evil-see-no-evil-speak-no-evil.jpg

^^^ EXACTLY

Most people are ill informed and frankly do not care.. Those who do care about the vote are Ron Paul supporters.

Those who don't care support the Jackasses who have been running this country into the ground for the last 20+ years.

[NeoRayden]

http://nitesquad.org/nyid.aspx

[webber53]

With the Real ID Act ready to go underweight in May, and the immense support these candidates have who want to purge our country and sovereignties into oblivion... I am actually scared.

How did it get this bad? Why do people continue to fight for despotism and socialism instead of our thinking about our sovereignty ?

Ugh just seeing a new article on the real id guidelines made my stomach turn and put me in a real shitty mood.

Here is an analogy that most can understand why things are bad:

The boiling frog story states that a frog can be boiled alive if the water is heated slowly enough —
it is said that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that
is slowly heated, it will never jump out.

The story is generally told in a figurative context, with the upshot being that people should make
themselves aware of gradual change lest they suffer a catastrophic loss. Often it is used to illustrate
a slippery-slope argument. For example, many civil libertarians argue that even minor increases in
government authority, which may seem less noteworthy, make future increases in that authority
more likely: what would once have seemed a huge power grab, the argument goes, now becomes
seen as just another incremental increase, and thus appears more palatable.

In the boiling-frog allegory, the frog represents the citizenry, whilst the gradual heating of the water
represents the incremental encroachment of government. Others have used it as an analogy
with the growth of the offshore-world over decades,
and how ordinary citizens have accepted the presence of abusive tax havens.

[freelance]

Ugh just seeing a new article on the real id guidelines made my stomach turn and put me in a real shitty mood.

I don't mean to spoil your day, but do a simple Google:

Britain Prisoners to be Chipped

[Cyclone]

I'ld say shorter-term. If RP is a big threat to the agenda, we might see something big this year and Bush could suspend the elections, cancel the Constitution (which will cause strife) and declare martial law, all at once. We might be in for a major surprise.

Read H.R. 1955 if you really want to be scared.

Friends, we are coming into a really bad time in American history. The empire is crumbling and the madmen are running things. Recently Bush signed a statement that said that he can declare martial law for bad things like terrorist attacks, bad weather or other. "Other" really scares me.

Face it, things are going to get very very bad.

[propanes]

Another term for the Real ID is the Internal Passport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_passport


Yes, it's a national ID. They can call it what they want, but it's a NATIONAL ID!

[paulette]

This is a very sobering thread but I'm actually relieved to see it. Many of the things discussed here are things my husband and I have been talking about during the last few weeks. We're in our 50's ...which doesn't necessarily equate to any kind of wisdom but does take us from the possible accusation of over-reactionary youth.

I think you're right to be scared.

And I agree that it's going to be less than ten years.

One of the things that happens while watching from Canada is a bit of perspective. From this short distance we feel that we can see things many in your country can't because you're in the midst of it all. From here it is looking a bit dire....or certainly on the brink of 'dire'. It's going to be a monumental task not to take the ID card and whether or not you can win that battle will depend on the sheer numbers of people who are motivated and educated about the potential consequences of such a thing. Here in Ontario we are set for a driver's license with personal information embedded next year and this was done in conjunction with the American government.

By the way, according to Charlotte Iserbyt, the national ID card planned for the U.S. was actually designed with the help of two KGB agents. If you want the source I'll look that up and post it. Rather horrifying thought though if it's true.

Honestly though? I think you need to keep fighting but also have a back-up plan you can implement if necessary. That plan is going to probably involve moving from the U.S. I am going to guess that many of you haven't thought seriously about that but I believe you will begin to.....and especially if the November elections are cancelled. I have the same gut feeling about that.

Both my husband and I have been discussing the possible crisis that will come to either cancel the elections or create such an atmosphere of fear, the government will be able to do whatever it wants and with the consent....even the demands... of the people. Economic crisis? Attack on U.S. soil? I don't know what the plan is but one thing I can tell you is absolutely of the paramount important for each individual. ....beyond the need to roll back these terrifying laws which is obviously necessary............GET OUT OF DEBT!! Do whatever it takes to avoid credit card debt or any other for that matter.

And one other thought. IF Bush/Cheney impeachment hearings could begin this year then some of this truth just might come out. Senator Wexler is trying to get enough names on a petition so that he can introduce hearings. There are enough people here that could sign up and help make that happen.

http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/

Yes, I'm a bit scared for you too. But scared for us here too because some of this is spilling over into our country and NO ONE here seems to see it at all.

Thank you for your post. It seems so many more people from other countries can see what is happening to us, yet so many of us can't.

I, too, believe there will be no election in November. Something BIG is going to happen.

Please post the link you refer to about the KGB. The more information we can spread, the better. People will wake up. I just hope it's not too late.

[Computer]

With the Real ID Act ready to go underweight in May, and the immense support these candidates have who want to purge our country and sovereignties into oblivion... I am actually scared.

How did it get this bad? Why do people continue to fight for despotism and socialism instead of our thinking about our sovereignty ?

Ugh just seeing a new article on the real id guidelines made my stomach turn and put me in a real shitty mood.

What are you, a terrorist?? Actually, Chertoff says that you're either a terrorist, an illegal, or a conman if you don't want biometric national id cards. So, which is it?
:eek:

[paulette]

This is what a police state looks like:

http://www.truthnews.us/?p=1650

This is rare police footage (their own footage). Portland, Oregon 2002.

Everyone please watch and then spread far and wide.

[justinc.1089]

This is what a police state looks like:

http://www.truthnews.us/?p=1650

This is rare police footage (their own footage). Portland, Oregon 2002.

Everyone please watch and then spread far and wide.

I saw a bulletin with that video posted I think yesterday on myspace, it wasn't from you was it? lol

[Holly]

Thank you for your post. It seems so many more people from other countries can see what is happening to us, yet so many of us can't.

I, too, believe there will be no election in November. Something BIG is going to happen.

Please post the link you refer to about the KGB. The more information we can spread, the better. People will wake up. I just hope it's not too late.

Here's the link. I haven't found this anywhere else and the only thing I know about Charlotte Iserbyt is what is said on her own website. Certainly, she appears to have some serious qualifications and background but this is something about which I want to do a bit more searching.

http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/pages/articles/national_id_card.html

Yes Paulette....I believe something big is going to happen too.

I feel the need to say it one more time though......as a personal strategy do whatever it takes to get out of debt.