Some observations from today...

[alionbe]

I was out with the meetup group waving signs at a busy intersection in Chicago today. It wasn't huge (maybe 20 people at one time) but i thought it was pretty successful.

Several times today I heard people calling Ron Paul a racist, yelling from cars or coming right up to us. Most of them wouldn't even let us clear it up for them which was disappointing. A lot of liberals around here would be receptive to Dr. Paul's message but it looks like the smear campaign was effective. Anyone else seeing this? I thought it might be a good idea to make a separate slim jim or some handout made to address this.

Another thing I thought was interesting was the disproportionately high amount of enthusiasm from cab drivers. I can't tell you how many were honking for us and shouting "Go Ron Paul" in support. A good number of them rolled down their windows and asked for our handouts. I'm curious as to if this is because of those tip cards people hand out. If so, this is very encouraging. What a great idea.

I took some video of the meetup members talking about their support...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN-XA100TF4


----------------------------------
edit: since there was some concern as to if i was just making this up....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCDcmpitc8E

on page 7 of this thread i give a summary of these occurences

[Lord Xar]

hhahahahaha... I don't know.. I just don't know..

cab drivers support? Liberals receptive? Racist?

hahha.. alot of keywords.... I smell something, not sure yet...

[wgadget]

Last week we held the huge RP sign (4'x8') on the overpass, and there was a white guy who walked past us and asked if he (RP) took money from a white supremacist. We had to answer yes, and tried to "clear it up" for him, but he said, "No, that's all I need to know..."

OTOH, someone was out signwaving in ATL today and noticed that there was a lot MORE support from African-Americans than there was last week. I have also noticed the the AAs seem to like him here in the suburbs.

[Ibgamer]

Stop it guys, welcome to the forums!

[Korey Kaczynski]

You don't get it.

Liberals don't want evidence that Ron Paul isn't a racist because THEY WANT to believe that he is. It makes their already infantile worldview simpler; racism is evil, conservatism is evil, therefore Ron Paul, a conservative, is both evil and racist.

Don't bother trying to convince the diehard commies that he isn't; they're going to ignore you and still tell everyone Ron is a racist. Instead, dispell the notion with independents willing to listen to both sides.

[wgadget]

Hahah, a troll with a youtube video showing Ron Paul supporters out working the streets of Chicago. Must be a first.

[Iwantchange]

Just keep pushing Ron Paul, and explain the situation.

[alionbe]

Until another meetup member who is established in these forums confirms this event, I say it's a newbie troll.

are you serious? you can look at the vid.


the people accusing him of being racist, at least the ones we got to talk to, were referring to the newsletter. One lady sounded like she was kinda interested him or at least knew about him and was concerned about the newsletter.

[pacelli]

Welcome to the forums! :) Luckily the video supplied does not show nor talk about the negative aspects of sign waving.

[Iwantchange]

Hopefully Jan 21st if it's big enough to make news will dispell this stupid idea of racism...

[alionbe]

it was the first meetup thing ive done. i should have clarified that. i posted here because i though you might be interested in my impressions, as a newer supporter. what's with the troll stuff? kinda condescending dont you think.

[Paulitical Correctness]

Alionbe, welcome to the forum.

On behalf of my forumites, I must apologize for the hostility.

It's just...we don't like trolls, and with a low post count comes a low amount of trust.

It's alright, the skeptics will warm up. :)

[freedom-maniac]

You don't get it.

Liberals don't want evidence that Ron Paul isn't a racist because THEY WANT to believe that he is. It makes their already infantile worldview simpler; racism is evil, conservatism is evil, therefore Ron Paul, a conservative, is both evil and racist.

Don't bother trying to convince the diehard commies that he isn't; they're going to ignore you and still tell everyone Ron is a racist. Instead, dispell the notion with independents willing to listen to both sides.

Liberal's think every Caucasian is automatically a racist if they don't hate themselves for being white, and going around appoligizing for how they themselves personally caused slavery, and killed off the Native Americans.

More recently, some liberal's have adopted the view that ALL whites are automatically racist, regardless of how much they hate themselves. The idea is that since whites are the majority and a few may be racists, that all whites are racists for contributing to the white majority that allows society to alieanate minorities. It also believes that all minorities can't be racist, because they lack the majority status of society to impose their views of racism. They've been teaching this in college's in New England for a while now, and students are actually graded on how well they agree with the non-sense.

Just like neo-cons, Liberal's don't THINK.

[pacelli]

You don't get it.

Liberals don't want evidence that Ron Paul isn't a racist because THEY WANT to believe that he is. It makes their already infantile worldview simpler; racism is evil, conservatism is evil, therefore Ron Paul, a conservative, is both evil and racist.

Don't bother trying to convince the diehard commies that he isn't; they're going to ignore you and still tell everyone Ron is a racist. Instead, dispell the notion with independents willing to listen to both sides.

Korey, I'm so glad to see that your 666th post included a discussion of evil. Nicely done :)

I agree too-- those that believe the stream of propaganda are tuned to that style of believing. That is their preferred learning strategy, and the media is the only thing that will be able to change their minds. It is a waste of time to try to alter their perception. For those folks, an allegation is equivalent to a conviction.

[tikwanleap]

it was the first meetup thing ive done. i should have clarified that. i posted here because i though you might be interested in my impressions, as a newer supporter. what's with the troll stuff? kinda condescending dont you think.

Agreed, I wish people would quit with this troll stuff. It's totally counterproductive and negative. :(

[alaric]

it was the first meetup thing ive done. i should have clarified that. i posted here because i though you might be interested in my impressions, as a newer supporter. what's with the troll stuff? kinda condescending dont you think.

there are trolls in this forum, but i didn't get the impression you were one of them. I thought you just did a sign wave right after the hit piece came out and, being new, you didn't expect the amount of fear the establishment has toward Ron's exposing all the lies. As he becomes more popular and successful it will probably get more viscious. They have controlled things so long that seeing that people are taking him seriously really scares them. Welcome to the forum!:)

[mexicanpizza]

Until another meetup member who is established in these forums confirms this event, I say it's a newbie troll.

Reported.

[alionbe]

there are trolls in this forum, but i didn't get the impression you were one of them. I thought you just did a sign wave right after the hit piece came out and, being new, you didn't expect the amount of fear the establishment has toward Ron's exposing all the lies. As he becomes more popular and successful it will probably get more viscious. They have controlled things so long that seeing that people are taking him seriously really scares them. Welcome to the forum!:)

exactly.. most of the people saying this stuff were real young, and most likely obama supporters. I'm left-leaning myself (not so much anymore). In the sense that I say these people would be receptive to the message, I'm really thinking about my own experience. if it werent for Paul, i'd probably think Obama was best. the only reason i posted this because i was shocked that so many people knew about the newsletter. if anything, i expected them to not know anything about him other than being against the war. i guess dailykos and huffington post has something to do with this

[itsthepathocrats]

eom

[alionbe]

Alex is an infiltrator and this thread is B.S.

i created the youtube account today specifically for ron paul stuff.
what do you want me to do to prove that i was at a meetup today? fake ron paul supporters? they'd probably be pissed if they heard that.

this is getting rediculous

edit: also, i dont understand what in this thread is supposed to be an attack. you have 10 posts yourself.. why are you more qualified than me?

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

it was the first meetup thing ive done. i should have clarified that. i posted here because i though you might be interested in my impressions, as a newer supporter. what's with the troll stuff? kinda condescending dont you think.

There are plenty of morons on these forums who are quick to call people trolls. You can use the Ignore feature to filter them out.

Good work.

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[jake]

uh, this just sounds like a post to discourage people.

[electronicmaji]

The video does look fake. I think this is deffinetly a info war piece...maybe wonkettes...maybe other campaigns. But the way the supposed "meetup" members act on that video seems sarcastic and smarmy.

[alionbe]

What Do You Guys Want Me To Do To Prove Im Not A Fake?!?!?

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

What Do You Guys Want Me To Do To Prove Im Not A Fake?!?!?

Ignore them.

[alionbe]

go join the greater chicago meetup. go to the calendar, on the 12th... "Street Action -- We are the Media" I RSVPd last night. the people names 'fives' and 'swizzlesteve' are in the video

[tikwanleap]

What Do You Guys Want Me To Do To Prove Im Not A Fake?!?!?

Don't listen to these guys.

They can't take even a little bad news without shooting the messenger.

I thought your point about the taxi drivers supporting Ron Paul was really interesting. I wonder if they know about Ron Paul's fight against taxes on tips?

Maybe they could be given a bunch of slim jims to hand out to passengers? :D

[TER]

Dear alionbe,

There is no reason to prove anything. If you went, thank you for the information. We should consider all things. Do not give up in your fight for justice, and always lead yourself towards what is good.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Don't listen to these guys.

They can't take even a little bad news without shooting the messenger.

I thought your point about the taxi drivers supporting Ron Paul was really interesting. I wonder if they know about Ron Paul's fight against taxes on tips?

Maybe they could be given a bunch of slim jims to hand out to passengers? :D

While waving Ron Paul signs I've had people yell to "Go back to Russia, communist!"

[Soccrmastr]

Your meetup needs to stop wasting time with sign waves and get canvassing. If a liberal likes ROn Paul or not is completely irrelevant to our campaign. Deadlines for registration are passign us by and it doesnt matter at all if people who wont vote for ron paul have a high opinion of him.

[alionbe]

Your meetup needs to stop wasting time with sign waves and get canvassing. If a liberal likes ROn Paul or not is completely irrelevant to our campaign. Deadlines for registration are passign us by and it doesnt matter at all if people who wont vote for ron paul have a high opinion of him.

there's a group going to kalamazoo tomorrow

[Melissa]

there's a group going to kalamazoo tomorrow



and so are we here in Fort Wayne

[tikwanleap]

Oh and don't forget to sign up to become precinct leaders!

https://voters.ronpaul2008.com/grassroots/

[angrydragon]

Last week we held the huge RP sign (4'x8') on the overpass, and there was a white guy who walked past us and asked if he (RP) took money from a white supremacist. We had to answer yes, and tried to "clear it up" for him, but he said, "No, that's all I need to know..."

OTOH, someone was out signwaving in ATL today and noticed that there was a lot MORE support from African-Americans than there was last week. I have also noticed the the AAs seem to like him here in the suburbs.

Should have answered, "Dr. Paul doesn't subscribe to their beliefs and finds them despicable. He doesn't pander to anyone's beliefs or to special interests, only preaches the message of liberty and peace for everyone. Yes he took the money, but rather than give back to a group of people who preach hate, he'll use it to preach peace."

[alionbe]

No I wan't you to shut the fuck up and stop fucking up the forum morale.

You can have the thread deleted if you want. I was not expecting this type of response at all. Im telling you what happened today and why I was concerned. I'm not trying to bring down anybody's morale, but if the problem exists we shouldnt ignore it.

Just some advice... you should stop alienating new supporters. Probably not gonna post anything again knowing im just gonna be accused of being a "troll". Thanks

[DAFTEK]

Its funny how white people call Ron racist but blacks or other ethnics embrace him! I will question RP racism the day i hear a remark in audio or video from him, till then let them be fools!

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

You can have the thread deleted if you want. I was not expecting this type of response at all. Im telling you what happened today and why I was concerned. I'm not trying to bring down anybody's morale, but if the problem exists we shouldnt ignore it.

Just some advice... you should stop alienating new supporters. Probably not gonna post anything again knowing im just gonna be accused of being a "troll". Thanks

Ignore the assholes.

[tikwanleap]

You can have the thread deleted if you want. I was not expecting this type of response at all. Im telling you what happened today and why I was concerned. I'm not trying to bring down anybody's morale, but if the problem exists we shouldnt ignore it.

Just some advice... you should stop alienating new supporters. Probably not gonna post anything again knowing im just gonna be accused of being a "troll". Thanks

Like others said, ignore people like him.

I just reported his post to the mods.

[Melissa]

You can have the thread deleted if you want. I was not expecting this type of response at all. Im telling you what happened today and why I was concerned. I'm not trying to bring down anybody's morale, but if the problem exists we shouldnt ignore it.

Just some advice... you should stop alienating new supporters. Probably not gonna post anything again knowing im just gonna be accused of being a "troll". Thanks

please dont go tensions are just high and there are alot of young and I will be sexiest halfcocked men in here.

We are just coming down from 2 primarys and the letters and it has taken its toll on some

But some of us here are still sane, but alas of course it is the women hehe

[angrydragon]

Don't mind them too much alionbe, some of us are just really careful to newer members as they maybe be trying to disrupt our forums.

[Paulitical Correctness]

We Need to ignore the Racist Attacks or they will not go away!

From reading his original post, it seems to me that he was reporting his observations and stating that the smear was working. Then, if I'm not entirely mistaken, he was suggesting a way to possibly address it.

What's with the hostility?

That's no way to treat a new member. What if someone comes here on the fence and someone spews garbage and insults at them like you're doing? It's going to sway their decision the wrong way.

[RPSignbomb]

I was out with the meetup group waving signs at a busy intersection in Chicago today. It wasn't huge (maybe 20 people at one time) but i thought it was pretty successful.

Several times today I heard people calling Ron Paul a racist, yelling from cars or coming right up to us. Most of them wouldn't even let us clear it up for them which was disappointing. A lot of liberals around here would be receptive to Dr. Paul's message but it looks like the smear campaign was effective. Anyone else seeing this? I thought it might be a good idea to make a separate slim jim or some handout made to address this.

Another thing I thought was interesting was the disproportionately high amount of enthusiasm from cab drivers. I can't tell you how many were honking for us and shouting "Go Ron Paul" in support. A good number of them rolled down their windows and asked for our handouts. I'm curious as to if this is because of those tip cards people hand out. If so, this is very encouraging. What a great idea.

I took some video of the meetup members talking about their support...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN-XA100TF4

Well done!

[deedles]

Alex is an infiltrator and this thread is B.S. The newsletter hit is not sticking, they just want us to think it is having an impact so we'll give up.

Check out the video. Look at these guys. These are not authentic RP supporters. The Youtube account was just created today, Jan 12th, the same day he created this thread. They are on somebody's payroll.

We're under attack from all sources. It's better to be vigilant than trusting in these times of deceipt.

There are very few voters who are buying this "he's a racist meme." It's not going to stick. It won't hurt our Revolution unless we let it hurt this Revolution.

African Americans are supporting Dr. Paul in droves because they know an honest white guy when they see and hear one. They are abandoning Hillary and Obama and are turning to Dr. Paul, and the establishment is concerned.

Stay focused. Keep spreading Dr. Paul's message. Don't stop, ever. Ignore the attacks, as they can't stop us unless we let them.


Umm.. this is the email our meetup got from one of our members today:

Steve and I were at the TR overpass today to catch the crowd heading to the Packer game. We had one of our new members (Tim) join us today. The number of cars giving a positive response stayed about the same, or may have increased slightly. The number of cars responding in a negative way, have increased greatly. I'm wondering if people now think that RP is racist because they heard about that old newsletter, but don't know the full story.

[DAFTEK]

We Need to ignore the Racist Attacks or they will not go away!

Calm down there son! You cant clean a house by sweeping the dirt under a rug!

[Bloody Holly]

Lay off of this person please! Some of you go overboard to make people feel unwelcomed because they bring up something you don't want to hear.

Welcome to the board. You may help yourself to cookies and pie.

We all know Ron isn't a racist. It's not your fault Alionbe, some people believe whatever they want to believe.

[Paulitical Correctness]

Lay off of this person please! Some of you go overboard to make people feel unwelcomed because they bring up something you don't want to hear.

Welcome to the board. You may help yourself to cookies and pie.

We all know Ron isn't a racist. It's not your fault Alionbe, some people believe whatever they want to believe.

...I was never informed of the cookies and pie.

Burn the witch!

:D

[Spirit of '76]

You can have the thread deleted if you want. I was not expecting this type of response at all. Im telling you what happened today and why I was concerned. I'm not trying to bring down anybody's morale, but if the problem exists we shouldnt ignore it.

Just some advice... you should stop alienating new supporters. Probably not gonna post anything again knowing im just gonna be accused of being a "troll". Thanks

Don't leave just because a few individuals here refuse to follow Jefferson's Rules of Conduct:

http://www.libertybellmuseum.com/MuseumShop/images/1721.jpg

Number 11 is particularly applicable.

[stevedasbach]

No I wan't you to shut the fuck up and stop fucking up the forum morale.

So when people share information you don't like, your response is "shut the fuck up and stop fucking up the forum morale"? Sounds like Fox News' attitude toward us.

Dr. Paul's campaign is all about speaking the truth. We shouldn't attack a fellow Paul supporter for honestly reporting what happened, the bad along with the good.

[deedles]

Lay off of this person please! Some of you go overboard to make people feel unwelcomed because they bring up something you don't want to hear.

Welcome to the board. You may help yourself to cookies and pie.

We all know Ron isn't a racist. It's not your fault Alionbe, some people believe whatever they want to believe.

Exactly. We cannot believe that this MSM crap doesn't work... they did it to Buchanan and Dean last time...successfully. The only big difference is they didn't have DRP message, history OR US!

Bloody Holly: Your avatar is really disturbing. :eek:

[ValidusCustodiae]

Last week we held the huge RP sign (4'x8') on the overpass, and there was a white guy who walked past us and asked if he (RP) took money from a white supremacist. We had to answer yes, and tried to "clear it up" for him, but he said, "No, that's all I need to know..."

That's when you say, "Every candidate has received donations from white supremacists, Ron Paul is the only one that has been attacked for it."

[electronicmaji]

I'm just pissed this forum is falling apart because of those racist letters. We need to close down all threads and totally ignore the issue. Its only dividing us.

[Paulitical Correctness]

I'm just pissed this forum is falling apart because of those racist letters. We need to close down all threads and totally ignore the issue. Its only dividing us.

I think your reaction has caused more divide than the initial post.

That being said, you owe someone an apology..:mad:

Next.

[Lord Xar]

well, here is a VERY EASY WAY TO CONFIRM.

What is your meetup number? That is simple, right?

What meetup group do you belong to? Not the city, but the actual meetup group number.

**************

1. Liberals like his message
--- insinuating Ron is NOT a replublican

2. Mentioning Racist
-- self explanatory

3. Cab drivers seem to really like Ron
--- cab drivers are probably diproportiationatly middle eastern, imho.

This is why I am suspect. Basically saying Ron Paul has liberal ideals that muslims seem to love despite the racist claims.

***********************

that is my 2 cents. I am not saying this is a troll post, just slightly susptect.

Just tell us what meetup group number.

[Spirit of '76]

Guys, let's please forget it and move on.

How many votes have you gotten for Ron today?

[Bloody Holly]

...I was never informed of the cookies and pie.

Burn the witch!

:D


You weren't informed. It was removed from You Tube. Afterwards, the media ate all of the cookies and the pie!

Crooked lying cookie and pie stealing filthy hardened criminals outta be ashamed of their cookie and pie stealing ways.

[Paulitical Correctness]

You weren't informed. It was removed from You Tube. Afterwards, the media ate all of the cookies and the pie!

Crooked lying cookie and pie stealing filthy hardened criminals outta be ashamed of their cookie and pie stealing ways.

..I thought the folks over at Fox were lookin' awful hefty.:eek:

[alionbe]

well, here is a VERY EASY WAY TO CONFIRM.

What is your meetup number? That is simple, right?

What meetup group do you belong to? Not the city, but the actual meetup group number.

**************

1. Liberals like his message
--- insinuating Ron is NOT a replublican

2. Mentioning Racist
-- self explanatory

3. Cab drivers seem to really like Ron
--- cab drivers are probably diproportiationatly middle eastern, imho.

This is why I am suspect. Basically saying Ron Paul has liberal ideals that muslims seem to love despite the racist claims.

***********************

that is my 2 cents. I am not saying this is a troll post, just slightly susptect.

Just tell us what meetup group number.

its 94

also, the majority of cab drivers here are African. (Somebody from chicago back me up on this?) not that that even matters

[hopeful]

What Do You Guys Want Me To Do To Prove Im Not A Fake?!?!?


take your top off:eek:

[electronicmaji]

im sorry...

[Bloody Holly]

take your top off:eek:

:rolleyes: There is porn on the internet you know ;)

BTW, as a female I am putting all dipshits on ignore. Congrats! You are the next lucky dipshit on my ignore list. Well done.

[Lord Xar]

its 94

also, the majority of cab drivers here are African. (Somebody from chicago back me up on this?) not that that even matters

ok cool...

so.. give me your interpretation of the environment on how best to combat this?

I am not quizing you. what seemed to work when addressing those who came up?

What worked, what didn't work.. did people want to hear the explanation or not..

thanks for clarifying.

[alionbe]

ok cool...

so.. give me your interpretation of the environment on how best to combat this?

I am not quizing you. what seemed to work when addressing those who came up?

What worked, what didn't work.. did people want to hear the explanation or not..

thanks for clarifying.

i just realized i have someone calling him a racist in my tape. im gonna post it right now (without tags of course) and you can see for yourself.. then i'll tell you about the other occurences. stay tuned.

[alionbe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCDcmpitc8E

here it is. please do not critize the guy when he's saying "you're wrong" to the guy in the car. at that point the windows were up and the car was driving away. when we got to actually talk to people about the issue, we were very inviting and polite. [edit: i say "end the drug war" to this guy. that was just a mistake. later on i say "war on drugs"}

the first time (which is what you'll see in the vid) a man shouted it from his car. Me and the guy I was with were surprised and couldnt really get a good response before he drove off.

second time a young girl yelled it from a passing car.

third time a group of young girls walked by. we tried to talk to them about ron paul and one of them said they could not support him because her friend was brown. (her words, not mine) referring to her indian friend that was with her. we told her that the newsletter was a smear and i attempted to take about paul ending the war on drugs, but they werent interested and walked on.

similar variations of the above happened and people would not let us clarify it. as one group was walking away i started about ending the war on drugs and how obama has not said anything about that (they were obama supporters). they yelled back at me, saying he did want to end the war on drugs. needless to say i was frustrated.

at one point a lady came up to me and asked me directly about the newsletter. i got the sense that she knew quite a bit about paul, and was almost disappointed. she allowed me to explain the whole story but i got the sense that it didnt make her feel any better about him


On the plus side, we did talk to a ton of people who knew nothing of Paul and gave them the direct message about his true intentions and love of freedom. this was never intended to be a discouraging post! just pointing out some things that got my attention today.

[alionbe]

anybody have any thoughts on this?

[Mark]

Last week we held the huge RP sign (4'x8') on the overpass, and there was a white guy who walked past us and asked if he (RP) took money from a white supremacist. We had to answer yes, and tried to "clear it up" for him, but he said, "No, that's all I need to know..."

OTOH, someone was out signwaving in ATL today and noticed that there was a lot MORE support from African-Americans than there was last week. I have also noticed the the AAs seem to like him here in the suburbs.

There was quite a discussion the day the "news" came out about the white supremacist donation.

A few, including me, wanted Ron to return it and denounce the group. Very Simple to do. GREAT publicity.

But no. Instead, he has to answer questions and continue to explain to not much avail.

BAD MOVE. Think of all the NEGATIVE publicity he's received from this instead of the good he would have gotten by returning it.

He's a genius for sure, but he blew this opportunity. No one's perfect, but this was a "no-brainer."

I seriously don't know what he was thinking. How could he have imagined this wouldn't be anything other than a killer.

A simple thing. A simple symbolic gesture. Return $500 and denounce the w.s. group.

Instead he and we have to put up with all this FUD.

The w.s. contribution and now the newsletters.

Come on Ron, use the common sense God gave you so much of.

[Mark]

And the "should I give "your" $500 back to the group to use" answer is just plain pitiful.

It's just ridiculous. And it's not working because it's a stupid response.

SYMBOLISM RON. SYMBOLISM. Look up the definition. You seem to have forgotten it.

[Bloody Holly]

There was quite a discussion the day the "news" came out about the white supremacist donation.

A few, including me, wanted Ron to return it and denounce the group. Very Simple to do. GREAT publicity.

But no. Instead, he has to answer questions and continue to explain to not much avail.

BAD MOVE. Think of all the NEGATIVE publicity he's received from this instead of the good he would have gotten by returning it.

He's a genius for sure, but he blew this opportunity. No one's perfect, but this was a "no-brainer."

I seriously don't know what he was thinking. How could he have imagined this wouldn't be anything other than a killer.

A simple thing. A simple symbolic gesture. Return $500 and denounce the w.s. group.

Instead he and we have to put up with all this FUD.

The w.s. contribution and now the newsletters.

Come on Ron, use the common sense God gave you so much of.

I wonder why the mainstream media doesn't look at contributions from other candidates.

The thing is, Ron Paul is an individual. The media is trying to put his supporters in groups and pick them off one by one. Truthers and WS's are not popular so they start with them. Once those are picked off, there will be others.

Ron knows the media is trying to do this. He's not allowing it.

Twice the media has tried to make Ron Paul denounce support from lumped up supporters that they don't like.

Meanwhile, notice the media hasn't done this same hit job on anyone else?

All we can do is just keep it up. We can't show everyone the truth.

There was a person I knew who admitted to stealing a Ron Paul sign from a neighbor's yard because he got tired of seeing the signs. He threw it away. Then later I guess out of guilt, he did research online to see who this Ron Paul guy was and a new supporter it made out of him.

[Mark]

It may be too late now though to give it back. It may look like pandering or a "cover-your-backside" move.

I hate to say it, but, this lack of foresight and common sense may be the dagger that kills our momentum and the campaign.

"Racist" is a buzzword that can destroy most anything. Especially a political campaign.

[DrCap]

Being in the Chicago area I can add two pieces of info to this thread:
1). the video looks legit, I know the intersection well.
2). the meetup group in greater Chicago did have a sign wave planned for today at that intersection.

Also, keep in mind us Midwesterners are always a little blah - it takes a lot to get us to crawl out of the woodwork, maybe it's the cold weather, or the slaughterhouses of our past, or maybe it is our king, mayor Daley, who, like his father seems to have been elected for life.

[Mark]

I wonder why the mainstream media doesn't look at contributions from other candidates.

The thing is, Ron Paul is an individual. The media is trying to put his supporters in groups and pick them off one by one. Truthers and WS's are not popular so they start with them. Once those are picked off, there will be others.

Ron knows the media is trying to do this. He's not allowing it.

Twice the media has tried to make Ron Paul denounce support from lumped up supporters that they don't like.

Meanwhile, notice the media hasn't done this same hit job on anyone else?

All we can do is just keep it up. We can't show everyone the truth.

There was a person I knew who admitted to stealing a Ron Paul sign from a neighbor's yard because he got tired of seeing the signs. He threw it away. Then later I guess out of guilt, he did research online to see who this Ron Paul guy was and a new supporter it made out of him.


Yeah, but one less smear attempt would sure help.

Oh course the MSM doesn't do it to others. We KNOW that already.

But Ron gave them ammunition that is practically impossible to defend against.

It makes things a WHOLE LOT harder.

Now we have to spend TONS of time explaining this to people who have no clue about things anyway .

What part of - "Give the money back and denounce" is SO HARD to understand in terms of the GREAT publicity it would garner.

It's pretty simple to do and common sense period.

Write a check, send it back, denounce. 5 minutes of work for GOLD to use.

Instead we'll spend the rest of the campaign trying to explain this junk.

[dblee]

Same experience today. I'm posting from the vegas march. Here in vegas, the cab drivers LOVE Ron Paul.

[Mark]

I really don't care if it looks like pandering now. One days worth of MSM "pandering charges" verses 10 months of defending it.

That's a whole lot LESS WORSE than having to deal with this mess for the next 10 months.

The reason he didn't return it is NOT "playing in Peoria".

[Guymontag]

It may be too late now though to give it back. It may look like pandering or a "cover-your-backside" move.

I hate to say it, but, this lack of foresight and common sense may be the dagger that kills our momentum and the campaign.

"Racist" is a buzzword that can destroy most anything. Especially a political campaign.

Funny you bring this up. Me and my wife first started researching Ron Paul after that interview where he said: "Why give it back? He cant buy me out and its less money for them to use for their organization." Or something to that effect. We both thought that it was really clever.

[Bloody Holly]

Yeah, but one less smear attempt would sure help.

Oh course the MSM doesn't do it to others. We KNOW that already.

But Ron gave them ammunition that is practically impossible to defend against.

It makes things a WHOLE LOT harder.

Now we have to spend TONS of time explaining this to people who have no clue about things anyway .

What part of - "Give the money back and denounce" is SO HARD to understand in terms of the GREAT publicity it would garner.

It's pretty simple to do and common sense period.

Write a check, send it back, denounce. 5 minutes of work for GOLD to use.

Instead we'll spend the rest of the campaign trying to explain this junk.

We all got to see how Ron Paul stood up for himself and how MSM edited it. This is a plot to divide and conquer.

It's also put there so that all of his supporters will get bent out of shape and attack each other and exclude types of people that the media decided to smear.

If mainstream media were more fair and balanced, your idea is right on track but I can't trust them to not put a negative spin on it.

[Mark]

Look at the video of the Chicago meetup that was posted.

The dude trys to go into a long explanation. "No he's not", the drug war ect.

Instead of - "He returned the money and denounced the group."

Now which answer is more effective. I hope I really don't have to answer that for anyone.

[alionbe]

Look at the video of the Chicago meetup that was posted.

The dude trys to go into a long explanation. "No he's not", the drug war ect.

Instead of - "He returned the money and denounced the group."

Now which answer is more effective. I hope I really don't have to answer that for anyone.

yeah you're right. we were both kind of surprised by it and so we didnt have a good response. also, i assume he was talking about the newsletter, not the donation (or maybe both). the other people we actually got a chance to talk to were referring to the newsletter. in that case, what should we say? "he didnt write it" which is true, sorta. "he doesn't actually have those beliefs" which nobody will believe us.

[Bloody Holly]

Look at the video of the Chicago meetup that was posted.

The dude trys to go into a long explanation. "No he's not", the drug war ect.

Instead of - "He returned the money and denounced the group."

Now which answer is more effective. I hope I really don't have to answer that for anyone.

Then the person would bring up the newsletter and another "no he's not" would be said even though Ron Paul spoke up about that too but that video was later edited.

The best way to deal with quick interractions where someone calls Ron Paul a racist is mention the war on drugs and how racist that is. Then give the person a flyer, a dvd, whatever material you have. Thank the person for their time and smile.

[BreakYourChains]

it was the first meetup thing ive done. i should have clarified that. i posted here because i though you might be interested in my impressions, as a newer supporter. what's with the troll stuff? kinda condescending dont you think.

Welcome to the forum! You can see, the negative stuff we face with the press, takes it's toll on the supporters too. Some start to be leery of anyone new who might post anything negative. Please forgive those here who do this. We just need to keep pushing on, and not let the smear attempts get us down, or give the smears an excuse to hurt each other. Thanks for what you are doing!

[VoluntaryMan]

someone was out signwaving in ATL today and noticed that there was a lot MORE support from African-Americans than there was last week. I have also noticed the the AAs seem to like him here in the suburbs.

1. The War on Plants...Blacks...DRUGS

2. Asset Forfeiture

3. Tribute

4. War on Islam

5. Death Penalty

These are all issues of special concern to black voters, because they all have a disparate impact on black Americans. These are all issues on which Ron Paul shines above all other candidates, from either party. Black voters already know more about these issues, and Dr. Paul's position on them, than many white voters, to whom some of these issues may be of lower priority.

Most black people aren't going to vote in the GOP primary, but would vote for RP, by a large margin, in the general election, unless Obama wins his party's nomination, in which case Dr. Paul would still likely get the largest percentage of the black vote of any Republican -- in quite some time.

If Ron Paul were a racist, the policies he promotes would be a funny way of showing it. Do WNs support him? Sure. They may find many of his policies attractive, because of their own prejudices, but that certainly doesn't make them racist policies. For example, RP wants to stop illegal immigration because it results in fewer entry level jobs for Americans, creates a strain on gov't services, and increases crime. WNs want to stop it because they hate "mex-kins." RP wants to end foreign aid, because it increases US debt, creates entagling alliances, and swells the already heavy tax burden on American wage-earners. WNs want to end funding to Israel because they hate "the jews."

I have a secret for you: there are racists in every race. If you aren't a racist, you probably either know or are related to at least one. This goes for all of us, red, yellow, black, white, or brown. What we also know about these racist is, aside from making us shake our heads and groan from time-to-time, they are MOSTLY harmless. They say stupid things, and vent, and rant, but most of them wouldn't hurt a fly. Regardless, though, we try to get them to shake off old ways of thinking, but they are still family or friends, and, unless they are of the really bad, dangerous variety, we treat them accordingly. We may try to change their minds, but we don't force them to change their addresses, just because they have some stupid, backwards opinions.

Cut Dr. Paul some slack for thinking that friendship or family, even if that friend or family member is an ignorant bigot, is more important than some political office, even if that office is the presidency. Most Presidents have had their black sheep, and we usually don't demand they be thrown under the bus (remember Roger Clinton and Billy Carter?). He's going to stick to his guns, and continue to protect whomever he is protecting. If we can't accept that, then we need to find another candidate. For me, there is no other candidate. I'm sticking with Ron Paul. And, I admire his loyalty. Under the same circumstances, most of his opponents would have sold out their crazy cousin Joe or their old college buddy in a hot minute; and I'm pretty sure that's not the kind of president I would want.

[Bloody Holly]

1. The War on Plants...Blacks...DRUGS

2. Asset Forfeiture

3. Tribute

4. War on Islam

5. Death Penalty

These are all issues of special concern to black voters, because they all have a disparate impact on black Americans. These are all issues on which Ron Paul shines above all other candidates, from either party. Black voters already know more about these issues, and Dr. Paul's position on them, than many white voters, to whom some of these issues may be of lower priority.

Most black people aren't going to vote in the GOP primary, but would vote for RP, by a large margin, in the general election, unless Obama wins his party's nomination, in which case Dr. Paul would still likely get the largest percentage of the black vote of any Republican -- in quite some time.

If Ron Paul were a racist, the policies he promotes would be a funny way of showing it. Do WNs support him? Sure. They may find many of his policies attractive, because of their own prejudices, but that certainly doesn't make them racist policies. For example, RP wants to stop illegal immigration because it results in fewer entry level jobs for Americans, creates a strain on gov't services, and increases crime. WNs want to stop it because they hate "mex-kins." RP wants to end foreign aid, because it increases US debt, creates entagling alliances, and swells the already heavy tax burden on American wage-earners. WNs want to end funding to Israel because they hate "the jews."

I have a secret for you: there are racists in every race. If you aren't a racist, you probably either know or are related to at least one. This goes for all of us, red, yellow, black, white, or brown. What we also know about these racist is, aside from making us shake our heads and groan from time-to-time, they are MOSTLY harmless. They say stupid things, and vent, and rant, but most of them wouldn't hurt a fly. Regardless, though, we try to get them to shake off old ways of thinking, but they are still family or friends, and, unless they are of the really bad, dangerous variety, we treat them accordingly. We may try to change their minds, but we don't force them to change their addresses, just because they have some stupid, backwards opinions.

Cut Dr. Paul some slack for thinking that friendship or family, even if that friend or family member is an ignorant bigot, is more important than some political office, even if that office is the presidency. Most Presidents have had their black sheep, an we usually don't demand they be thrown under the bus (remember Roger Clinton and Billy Carter?). He's going to stick to his guns, and continue to protect whomever he is protecting. If we can't accept that, then we need to find another candidate. For me, there is no other candidate. I'm sticking with Ron Paul. And, I admire his loyalty. Under the same circumstances, most of his opponents would have sold out their crazy cousin Joe or their old college buddy in a hot minute; and I'm pretty sure that's not the kind of president I would want.

Right on! A+

[Mark]

Funny you bring this up. Me and my wife first started researching Ron Paul after that interview where he said: "Why give it back? He cant buy me out and its less money for them to use for their organization." Or something to that effect. We both thought that it was really clever.

Yeah, but you and your wife apparently have intelligence.

2 people out of the MILLIONS who hear this and draw conclusions from it.

The median IQ is about 100 points.

And that's the MEDIAN average. HALF OF THE PEOPLE have LESS than that.

A lot of people just don't have the intelligence AND/OR the desire to think things through.

They been force-fed FUD by media and their trusted TV. And they VOTE, based on what they're TOLD by media.

Ever wonder WHY Ron Paul's supporters for the most part SEEM to have above average intelligence?

Because they DO. They're USED to thinking things through and coming to a logical conclusion.

That's why they support Ron Paul.

But that's not why the average person is going to support Ron.

The average person barely cares about or understands politics.

They hear what the TV tells them and vote based upon it.

Hearing "Ron Paul returned the money and denounced the group" is GOLD for reaching the 50%+ of people like them.

Hearing "Ron Paul is a racist" has the exact OPPOSITE effect.

Try to think like the average Joe who can't wait to see the mind numbing things the MSM puts out as "entertainment and news".

THEY WILL NOT TAKE THE TIME TO COMPREHEND A LONG LOGICAL EXPLANATION.

They may not even be CAPABLE of understanding one.

Most people need short simple answers that they can grasp with little or no effort.

"Ron Paul returned the money and denounced the group" is one such short and simple answer.

[Bloody Holly]

Yeah, but you and your wife apparently have intelligence.

2 people out of the MILLIONS who hear this and draw conclusions from it.

The median IQ is about 100 points.

And that's the MEDIAN average. HALF OF THE PEOPLE have LESS than that.

A lot of people just don't have the intelligence AND/OR the desire to think things through.

They been force-fed FUD by media and their trusted TV. And they VOTE, based on what they're TOLD by media.

Ever wonder WHY Ron Paul's supporters for the most part SEEM to have above average intelligence?

Because they DO. They're USED to thinking things through and coming to a logical conclusion.

That's why they support Ron Paul.

But that's not why the average person is going to support Ron.

The average person barely cares about or understands politics.

They hear what the TV tells them and vote based upon it.

Hearing "Ron Paul returned the money and denounced the group" is GOLD for reaching the 50%+ of people like them.

Hearing "Ron Paul is a racist" has the exact OPPOSITE effect.

Try to think like the average Joe who can't wait to see the mind numbing things the MSM puts out as "entertainment and news".

THEY WILL NOT TAKE THE TIME TO COMPREHEND A LONG LOGICAL EXPLANATION.

They may not even be CAPABLE of understanding one.

Most people need short simple answers that they can grasp with little or no effort.

"Ron Paul returned the money and denounced the group" is one such short and simple answer.


Also, your average American doesn't want to be called stupid either or treated like they are stupid.

Would you like it if you were called stupid for not supporting let's say Guliani?

[AceNZ]

Someone yelling that RP is a racist from a car is unlikely to respond to reason. IMO, the most effective approach would be to respond in an equally emotional way. For example, I would be tempted to say:

Don't believe the white media lies!

or

The white-controlled media is lying to you!

Similarly, responding to emotion with an issue, such as "he'll end the drug war" is not likely to be effective (and besides that's not very meaningful when presented as a sound byte), and could even backfire with the reaction "you mean all minorities use drugs?".

[Mark]

yeah you're right. we were both kind of surprised by it and so we didnt have a good response. also, i assume he was talking about the newsletter, not the donation (or maybe both). the other people we actually got a chance to talk to were referring to the newsletter. in that case, what should we say? "he didnt write it" which is true, sorta. "he doesn't actually have those beliefs" which nobody will believe us.

Yeah, it probably is the newsletter he referred to.

Which would have had a lot less impact if he had returned the money and denounced the group a month ago.

Because then you could have said:

"He got money from a white supremest group, and when he found out, he gave it back and said he wouldn't take money from racists.

"And he didn't write or read that newsletter back then, and when he found out about it, he forced them to remove his name from it and to NEVER use his name again."

And the guy's eyes would "be opened" and admire Ron for it.

Because Ron made a statement, and stood up for black people, when he found out about those things.

But no, now Ron and us have to listen to the FUD all day long, because he didn't have the sense to do a simple thing like return $500.

[pacelli]

it was the first meetup thing ive done. i should have clarified that. i posted here because i though you might be interested in my impressions, as a newer supporter. what's with the troll stuff? kinda condescending dont you think.

We get people in here who pop in to put a downer on Dr. Paul, who actually support other candidates, who like to make all productive threads worthless. You get the idea.:rolleyes:

[VoluntaryMan]

Someone yelling that RP is a racist from a car is unlikely to respond to reason. IMO, the most effective approach would be to respond in an equally emotional way. For example, I would be tempted to say:

Don't believe the white media lies!

or

The white-controlled media is lying to you!

Similarly, responding to emotion with an issue, such as "he'll end the drug war" is not likely to be effective (and besides that's not very meaningful when presented as a sound byte), and could even backfire with the reaction "you mean all minorities use drugs?".

You ROCK!:D

[AceNZ]

On the donation issue, we should focus on what we can change and how we can respond. Armchair quarterbacking the campaign is counterproductive.

If someone complains about the donation, again it's an emotional thing, so respond in an equally emotional way:

Less money for crazy people is good for everyone!

or

If I gave you that crazy guy's donation, would you give it back to him for me (or would you keep it for yourself)?

[Mark]

1. The War on Plants...Blacks...DRUGS

2. Asset Forfeiture

3. Tribute

4. War on Islam

5. Death Penalty

These are all issues of special concern to black voters, because they all have a disparate impact on black Americans. These are all issues on which Ron Paul shines above all other candidates, from either party. Black voters already know more about these issues, and Dr. Paul's position on them, than many white voters, to whom some of these issues may be of lower priority.

Most black people aren't going to vote in the GOP primary, but would vote for RP, by a large margin, in the general election, unless Obama wins his party's nomination, in which case Dr. Paul would still likely get the largest percentage of the black vote of any Republican -- in quite some time.

If Ron Paul were a racist, the policies he promotes would be a funny way of showing it. Do WNs support him? Sure. They may find many of his policies attractive, because of their own prejudices, but that certainly doesn't make them racist policies. For example, RP wants to stop illegal immigration because it results in fewer entry level jobs for Americans, creates a strain on gov't services, and increases crime. WNs want to stop it because they hate "mex-kins." RP wants to end foreign aid, because it increases US debt, creates entagling alliances, and swells the already heavy tax burden on American wage-earners. WNs want to end funding to Israel because they hate "the jews."

I have a secret for you: there are racists in every race. If you aren't a racist, you probably either know or are related to at least one. This goes for all of us, red, yellow, black, white, or brown. What we also know about these racist is, aside from making us shake our heads and groan from time-to-time, they are MOSTLY harmless. They say stupid things, and vent, and rant, but most of them wouldn't hurt a fly. Regardless, though, we try to get them to shake off old ways of thinking, but they are still family or friends, and, unless they are of the really bad, dangerous variety, we treat them accordingly. We may try to change their minds, but we don't force them to change their addresses, just because they have some stupid, backwards opinions.

Cut Dr. Paul some slack for thinking that friendship or family, even if that friend or family member is an ignorant bigot, is more important than some political office, even if that office is the presidency. Most Presidents have had their black sheep, and we usually don't demand they be thrown under the bus (remember Roger Clinton and Billy Carter?). He's going to stick to his guns, and continue to protect whomever he is protecting. If we can't accept that, then we need to find another candidate. For me, there is no other candidate. I'm sticking with Ron Paul. And, I admire his loyalty. Under the same circumstances, most of his opponents would have sold out their crazy cousin Joe or their old college buddy in a hot minute; and I'm pretty sure that's not the kind of president I would want.

I know all of that, but does the average voter take the time to THINK THINGS THROUGH?

If so, they would ALL support Ron.

I spoke to a bus full of "average voters" the other day who didn't comprehend what getting rid of the Income Tax would do for them.

Much less a bullet point list of deeper issues.

One: "I ain't voting for a Republican".

I tried to explain that Ron's more of a Constitutionalist/Libertarian - not a "regular" republican.

Of course it didn't work. The word "Republican" is all they understood - based on the neo-con definition.

I mentioned war and the draft if we start up with Iran.

One: "The only draft I care about is draft beer".

It's not rocket science to understand the "dumbing don" of the American voter.

You have to reach the average person with a message that they can "grab hold of".

Something simple that makes them want to vote for your candidate.

A short essay is NOT going to do it for the MAJORITY of people who vote for the other Republican candidates.

On a morning news show the other day before the NH primary, 3 undecided voters said things they want from a candidate
that Ron has been saying all along.

But they were STILL undecided because they hadn't heard a candidate say what they needed to hear!

And Ron's been saying the SAME THINGS FOR MONTHS in a complicated manner!

But NOT using simple "sound bites" that most people understand -
He uses long complicated answers that most people tune out from after their 10 second attention span expires.

He needs SIMPLE answers to questions - people can look up the complicated explanations if they want to later.

[angrydragon]

Well there's no need to lie about it mark.

[BreakYourChains]

anybody have any thoughts on this?

Not sure yet how to deal with it. But, I think I know where a lot of it came from. CNN did an interview with Dr. Paul a couple of days ago, addressing the newsletters. Well, the interview was with Wolf Blitzer. Right before the interview, there was another piece leading in, really an attack piece. Ron Paul spoke well I thought with Wolf Blitzer and he gave him plenty of time to speak. I thought it would drop off from that point. This happened around 5ish est.

Well, they took that interview and edited it, then they inserted different pieces into the first hit piece, and really smeared him bad! They ran this all night, on Anderson Cooper several times. So, any liberal leaning person, and now even I was watching CNN, probably watched that. You can probably find it on youtube to confirm. It was horrible.

Well, suffice it to say, I sent CNN a not too nice email, telling them my opinion, and also told them I was not watching their station any longer, nor going to their website, and was banning their advertisers as well. The only way we have to fight this now is through our dollars, or what is left of them. I honestly don't think we can do much but let it drop from the radar. CNN is bad, heck all of them are bad, including CSpan. I watch it constantly to monitor, and you know, we RP people call in constantly. Then others will call in and call us all crazy. Perhaps we should just go door to door and leave the corrupted media to their corruptedness, and meet people in person. You have to remember too, not all of the crazies that call in might even be Ron Paul people. They might be paid to do this nasty stuff. Ron Paul supporters must start to behave rationally, and not be excited easily.

Anyway, once again, good job. Perhaps you should take the neg youtube down though? (I know you added the neg video to prove to those who questioned you.) No need to add more fuel to the fire on the internet, eh? Real RP supporters welcome you here. Perhaps some of those attacking you are from the other side as well. Keep the faith, brother.

[Mark]

Then the person would bring up the newsletter and another "no he's not" would be said even though Ron Paul spoke up about that too but that video was later edited.

The best way to deal with quick interractions where someone calls Ron Paul a racist is mention the war on drugs and how racist that is. Then give the person a flyer, a dvd, whatever material you have. Thank the person for their time and smile.

Yeah, but it's QUITE a strong point to be able to use that would have nearly negated the newsletter smear to begin with.

[Crickett]

While waving Ron Paul signs I've had people yell to "Go back to Russia, communist!"

This is what I have said a million times, but no one ever listens. He should never bring up the Libertarian thing. It sounds "communist" to older people. That is why MSM uses it all the time. Unfortunately RP and the campaign continue it.
All the other candidates and MSM make FUN of Dr. Paul..well you know..you just aren't in the CLUB if you side with the NERDS. I think you need a big sign that says RON PAUL IS NOT IN THE CLUB. Then maybe someone will listen about the CFR.

[pacelli]

Yeah, but you and your wife apparently have intelligence.

2 people out of the MILLIONS who hear this and draw conclusions from it.

The median IQ is about 100 points.

And that's the MEDIAN average. HALF OF THE PEOPLE have LESS than that.

A lot of people just don't have the intelligence AND/OR the desire to think things through.

They been force-fed FUD by media and their trusted TV. And they VOTE, based on what they're TOLD by media.

<snip>

Hearing "Ron Paul returned the money and denounced the group" is GOLD for reaching the 50%+ of people like them.

Hearing "Ron Paul is a racist" has the exact OPPOSITE effect.

Try to think like the average Joe who can't wait to see the mind numbing things the MSM puts out as "entertainment and news".

THEY WILL NOT TAKE THE TIME TO COMPREHEND A LONG LOGICAL EXPLANATION.

<snip>

"Ron Paul returned the money and denounced the group" is one such short and simple answer.

QFT. People with an IQ of around 85-90 are excellent members of society but they would probably find these forums too overwhelming. In the same way as Mark said, they don't really want to take the time to explore political issues in the depth needed to cross-reference every allegation and extend some critical thinking along those lines. It is much easier to just be able to say, "No, he gave the money back and said he had no idea who the guy was". Response: "Oh, Ok, cool."

That's just how a lot of people prefer to think, nothing wrong with it at all. They want simple answers without having to "waste" time re-considering their initial reaction or problem. It just is how it is.

[Mark]

Also, your average American doesn't want to be called stupid either or treated like they are stupid.

Would you like it if you were called stupid for not supporting let's say Guliani?

I didn't say that at all. I just pointed out the median IQ.

I didn't say "call them stupid".

I basically said use simple things that they can understand like the other candidates do that are getting 30% plus in the primaries.

There's a reason other candidates don't answer questions and instead use meaningless buzz words.

BECAUSE THEY WORK with the MAJORITY of voters.

People who care can look up the complicated reasoning.

People who don't, the majority of voters, need simple reasons to vote for someone.

All I'm saying is we need to address that point and PROVIDE simple reasons.

And do SIMPLE things like returning $500 and denouncing a WS group.

[Mark]

Well there's no need to lie about it mark.

Lie about what? The newsletter?

I don't think Dr Paul's lying when he said he didn't read them, and he fired or whatever the guy who wrote it.

However, most of this WOULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED,
and most people would have been more inclined to believe him about the newsletters,

IF he had done the "political no-brainer" of simply returning $500 a month ago.

He could have used the incident to CATAPULT his issues on anti-racism like the unfair drug war ect.

Opportunity STARED HIM DOWN, and he didn't recognize it.

[AceNZ]

@Mark, I agree with what you're saying, but I think you're approaching it from the perspective of reason, which is not likely to be effective, even if the message is simple. As with my other responses in this thread, try approaching it from the emotional side. To a bus full of "average voters", you could say things like:

The government is reducing the value of your paycheck every week by printing boat-loads of money to pay for the occupation in Iraq, so your dollars can buy less and less

The government is slowly reducing the amount it pays you in social security -- not by giving you fewer dollars, but by making those dollars able to buy less by printing so many of them

Guess who benefits first when the government prints lots of new money? Wall Street. Guess who gets hurt most? The middle class and the poor.

When the government prints new money, it is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.

Guess how health insurance companies make more money? By declining your claims. Do you really want all health care in this country to be controlled by insurance companies?


OK, maybe they're not all perfect, but hopefully you get the idea...

[pacelli]

Also, your average American doesn't want to be called stupid either or treated like they are stupid.

Would you like it if you were called stupid for not supporting let's say Guliani?

That's a good point. When doing intelligence testing, we refer to people in ranges of intellectual functioning, using terms that are not inflammatory. It is a term to describe the functioning of their problem solving abilities (i.e. the construct of intelligence). They are qualitative descriptions. The label of one of those ranges isn't "Stupid".

You have:

Very Superior range

Superior range

High Average range

Average range - 90 - 109

Low Average range

Borderline range

Extremely Low range

[Mark]

QFT. People with an IQ of around 85-90 are excellent members of society but they would probably find these forums too overwhelming. In the same way as Mark said, they don't really want to take the time to explore political issues in the depth needed to cross-reference every allegation and extend some critical thinking along those lines. It is much easier to just be able to say, "No, he gave the money back and said he had no idea who the guy was". Response: "Oh, Ok, cool."

That's just how a lot of people prefer to think, nothing wrong with it at all. They want simple answers without having to "waste" time re-considering their initial reaction or problem. It just is how it is.

My point well put succinctly.

It's not an insult or "put-down". It's just the way it is.

I've worked with, and have been friends with, EVERY level of intelligence for over 45 years.

From the mentally handicapped, to pure geniuses.

You HAVE to reach people WHERE they are at.

You CAN'T expect them to come to you. You HAVE to go to them.

EVERY issue has a "short answer" and a "long answer".

Some people want the "short answer", fewer want the long.

MOST of the people who vote want the short, "Oh, OK, cool" answer.

And if you "tickle their fancy" with the short answer,
they might even read more about the reasoning behind the "short answer" if they care enough about the issue.

[Duckman]

IF he had done the "political no-brainer" of simply returning $500 a month ago.

He could have used the incident to CATAPULT his issues on anti-racism like the unfair drug war ect.

Opportunity STARED HIM DOWN, and he didn't recognize it.

I agree. I actually supported his move then, but I knew it was risky if it could be combined with even the newsletter issues as I understood it at that time (which was that it was an isolated incident where the responsible party was fired).

I actually think Ron Paul did lie when he said he doesn't know who wrote the newsletters. At the minimum, I think we're left in a quandry by that statement, because if he's telling the truth it seems that he's either incompetent or too trusting, which are both bad, and add more fuel to the concerns about how he would govern considering the fact he can't seem to find people to manage his campaign properly, or else he's covering up by lying to the public, which is worse. Honestly, given his demeanor during the interview, I unfortunately believe that he was lying.

Notice he didn't say that he had no control over the contents of the newsletter.
Also that he didn't say he had never looked the contents of the newsletters.

Why would Ron Paul still not know the author after being smeared with this for 10+ years? It just doesn't add up.

I think Ron is toast. The general public thinks he's a racist, and alot of his supporters are conflicted about his response to this crisis.

I feel for freedom and liberty. But Ron has destroyed himself with this.

[Chester Copperpot]

are you serious? you can look at the vid.


the people accusing him of being racist, at least the ones we got to talk to, were referring to the newsletter. One lady sounded like she was kinda interested him or at least knew about him and was concerned about the newsletter.

I didnt see anybody in that video talk about RP being a racist.. Did I miss something?

[Bloody Holly]

I agree. I actually supported his move then, but I knew it was risky if it could be combined with even the newsletter issues as I understood it at that time (which was that it was an isolated incident where the responsible party was fired).

I actually think Ron Paul did lie when he said he doesn't know who wrote the newsletters. At the minimum, I think we're left in a quandry by that statement, because if he's telling the truth it seems that he's either incompetent or too trusting, which are both bad, and add more fuel to the concerns about how he would govern considering the fact he can't seem to find people to manage his campaign properly, or else he's covering up by lying to the public, which is worse. Honestly, given his demeanor during the interview, I unfortunately believe that he was lying.

Notice he didn't say that he had no control over the contents of the newsletter.
Also that he didn't say he had never looked the contents of the newsletters.

Why would Ron Paul still not know the author after being smeared with this for 10+ years? It just doesn't add up.

I think Ron is toast. The general public thinks he's a racist, and alot of his supporters are conflicted about his response to this crisis.

I feel for freedom and liberty. But Ron has destroyed himself with this.

Ron has said that he didn't even read it. Out of curiousity, did you watch the you tube video or did you see it on TV? Someone claimed CNN edited Ron Paul's response.

Also, nobody even thought Ron Paul would address the newsletter but he did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvzsiESqVss

[derdy]

We had a precinct captains meeting today at St. Louis Bread Company. As the meeting was wrapping up someone suggested we have a sign wave on the opposite side of the highway as this billboard:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g83/derdy01/2CAT2E87T.jpg

There were 5 of us on the outerroad and I-70 was about 10 feet beyond that. We got CRAZY honks and thumbs up. We had truckers on the highway honking at us!!! Woot!

Here's the St. Louis billboard thread

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=85481

[Mark]

@Mark, I agree with what you're saying, but I think you're approaching it from the perspective of reason, which is not likely to be effective, even if the message is simple. As with my other responses in this thread, try approaching it from the emotional side. To a bus full of "average voters", you could say things like:

The government is reducing the value of your paycheck every week by printing boat-loads of money to pay for the occupation in Iraq, so your dollars can buy less and less

The government is slowly reducing the amount it pays you in social security -- not by giving you fewer dollars, but by making those dollars able to buy less by printing so many of them

Guess who benefits first when the government prints lots of new money? Wall Street. Guess who gets hurt most? The middle class and the poor.

When the government prints new money, it is robbing from the poor and giving to the rich.

Guess how health insurance companies make more money? By declining your claims. Do you really want all health care in this country to be controlled by insurance companies?


OK, maybe they're not all perfect, but hopefully you get the idea...

Noted: good "breaking down" of the issues. However - ;)

This all started when I tried to give someone a "slim jim" type handout - he refused it.

He had heard of Ron Paul, and he thinks that "the government is SUPPOSED to take care of people".

I mention more war and the draft to mostly young people who WOULD be drafted - one person said - "all I care about is draft beer" -
and most of them laughed INSTEAD of thinking about being drafted.

I mentioned "wouldn't you like to not have to pay Income Taxes?".

I got - "I ain't voting for a Republican".

I broke it down into simple terms- these people weren't hearing it. At least not as a group.

Maybe after it sunk in it made some sense to some. But not in that "group think" scenario.

One older fellow was quiet and thoughtful, it may have reached him a bit.

[Duckman]

Ron has said that he didn't even read it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvzsiESqVss


Wolf: Did you ever read these newsletters? Congressman?

Ron: ...Not back then, there might have been at times I would, at times.
But, you know, I was in a medical practice, I travelled alot, I was doing speeches around the country,
So very frequently, you know, I never did see these.
in fact, some of the things you just read, I wouldn't have recognized them.

He doesn't deny reading the newsletter, he just says he doesn't think he saw these particular artles. He doesn't denounce their content. he doesn't apologize for their content.

I don't know, I'm not buying it. Ron Paul seems very defensive and edgy. Not like someone who is telling the truth, not like his demeanor in other interviews, even hostile ones. Trying to claim that this issue is "settled in the past" is not going to work for an issue that 95% of the public hasn't heard before. He seems to speak slowly and hesitatingly before actually answering the substantive questions. Very, very suspicious to me.

[alionbe]

I didnt see anybody in that video talk about RP being a racist.. Did I miss something?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCDcmpitc8E

i didnt tag ron. its only up because some people here thought i was making it up.
i say drug war when i meant to say war on drugs.

[Bloody Holly]

He doesn't deny reading the newsletter, he just says he doesn't think he saw these particular artles. He doesn't denounce their content. he doesn't apologize for their content.

I don't know, I'm not buying it. Ron Paul seems very defensive and edgy. Not like someone who is telling the truth, not like his demeanor in other interviews, even hostile ones. Trying to claim that this issue is "settled in the past" is not going to work for an issue that 95% of the public hasn't heard before. He seems to speak slowly and hesitatingly before actually answering the substantive questions. Very, very suspicious to me.

Don't know about that one. I've had several people try to use the whole he's a racist as the reason why they wouldn't support Ron Paul and then when they saw the video, their opinion changed.

He may be covering up who wrote them because maybe he doesn't want to bring the other person into it. He's said in the past he takes responsibility for not reading the newsletter and having something go out that he didn't say.

Also, it's not in his character. Wolf Blitzer even notes this. Do you personally think Ron Paul is a racist? Are his policies racist?

[Duckman]

Do you personally think Ron Paul is a racist? Are his policies racist?

I don't believe Ron Paul is a racist. But I believe he is or has been associated with racists, and/or sympathizes with racism, or seems willing to pander to racists and is slow to disavow them. (For instance, during the whole $500 donation scandal, he never explicitly said he didn't want donations from racists until the PBS interview, which aired after Ron Paul had several chances to explain the donation.

I do not believe his policies are racist, and he makes the good point that sensible drug policy would actually help blacks. However, libertarianism is idealogically opposed to affirmative action and anti-discrimination laws on the property rights argument that the government can't tell you, as a property (business) owner that you have to associate with people you don't want to choose to associate with, no matter what the reason. I oppose affirimative action, but I am hesitant to remove anti-discrimination laws depite their being un-libertarian because I definitely think the greater good of allowing a freer society for all must trump property rights in that case, but that is a divergence from "pure" libertarianism that I am not sure Ron Paul shares. This is the reason racists are attracted to Ron Paul, and I'm a little bothered that some people close to Ron might be more interested in that side of libertarian ideas than other sides.

[AceNZ]

Noted: good "breaking down" of the issues. However - ;)

This all started when I tried to give someone a "slim jim" type handout - he refused it.

He had heard of Ron Paul, and he thinks that "the government is SUPPOSED to take care of people".

I mention more war and the draft to mostly young people who WOULD be drafted - one person said - "all I care about is draft beer" -
and most of them laughed INSTEAD of thinking about being drafted.

I mentioned "wouldn't you like to not have to pay Income Taxes?".

I got - "I ain't voting for a Republican".

I broke it down into simple terms- these people weren't hearing it. At least not as a group.

Maybe after it sunk in it made some sense to some. But not in that "group think" scenario.

One older fellow was quiet and thoughtful, it may have reached him a bit.


It sounds like you were talking to a group of people who pay little or no tax. If people are used to getting government handouts, you can't get through by talking about things like income taxes -- only "rich" people pay those. And "republican" is also equated to the rich. You have to put it in their terms: "did you know that the government is stealing from you and giving to the rich", etc.

I should also say that I'm afraid this is a very, very tough road. I'm not saying we shouldn't try, but most people probably won't get it until it's too late.

[BreakYourChains]

I didnt see anybody in that video talk about RP being a racist.. Did I miss something?

Yes, the original thread starter loaded another video to youtube, http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCDcmpitc8E

[AceNZ]

I am hesitant to remove anti-discrimination laws depite their being un-libertarian because I definitely think the greater good of allowing a freer society for all must trump property rights in that case, but that is a divergence from "pure" libertarianism that I am not sure Ron Paul shares.

The flaw in this argument is that anti-discrimination laws are themselves racist, because they define people according to groups.

Also, laws that exist "for the greater good" are the foundation of collectivism, which is the opposite of individualism. A person who believes in strict individualism like RP is about as far from a racist as you can get, because he doesn't see (or favor or criticize) the group -- only the person.

[libertarian4321]

Last week we held the huge RP sign (4'x8') on the overpass, and there was a white guy who walked past us and asked if he (RP) took money from a white supremacist. We had to answer yes, and tried to "clear it up" for him, but he said, "No, that's all I need to know..."

OTOH, someone was out signwaving in ATL today and noticed that there was a lot MORE support from African-Americans than there was last week. I have also noticed the the AAs seem to like him here in the suburbs.

I agree with Ron that he shouldn't have returned the money to the white supremacist, who likely would have used the money to further his evil beliefs.

However, the campaign could have handled it better.

By keeping $500, they've generated a million dollars worth of bad publicity.

The first time Ron was asked about this, he should have said "I'm donating the $500 to charity"- that would have turned a million dollar NEGATIVE into a million dollar POSITIVE.

[losinglife]

Last week we held the huge RP sign (4'x8') on the overpass, and there was a white guy who walked past us and asked if he (RP) took money from a white supremacist. We had to answer yes, and tried to "clear it up" for him, but he said, "No, that's all I need to know..."

OTOH, someone was out signwaving in ATL today and noticed that there was a lot MORE support from African-Americans than there was last week. I have also noticed the the AAs seem to like him here in the suburbs.

i am pretty sure ALL candidates have, if one could dig it up that would be a great answer.

"Yes he did, and so did every single other candidate"

[Mark]

I agree. I actually supported his move then, but I knew it was risky if it could be combined with even the newsletter issues as I understood it at that time (which was that it was an isolated incident where the responsible party was fired).

I actually think Ron Paul did lie when he said he doesn't know who wrote the newsletters. At the minimum, I think we're left in a quandry by that statement, because if he's telling the truth it seems that he's either incompetent or too trusting, which are both bad, and add more fuel to the concerns about how he would govern considering the fact he can't seem to find people to manage his campaign properly, or else he's covering up by lying to the public, which is worse. Honestly, given his demeanor during the interview, I unfortunately believe that he was lying.

Notice he didn't say that he had no control over the contents of the newsletter.
Also that he didn't say he had never looked the contents of the newsletters.

Why would Ron Paul still not know the author after being smeared with this for 10+ years? It just doesn't add up.

I think Ron is toast. The general public thinks he's a racist, and alot of his supporters are conflicted about his response to this crisis.

I feel for freedom and liberty. But Ron has destroyed himself with this.

Here's his full response on CNN With Wolf Blitzer.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u39z38xjraw

He basically says he didn't even see the vast majority of newsletters, and that's understandable given his schedule back then.

I can see him not even paying attention to them, even though with his name on them, in hindsight, he should have insisted on having final approval before anything was released.

Anyone not having 20/20 hindsight on some things in their life cast the first stone.

He's been answering these charges for over 10 years,
and this recent smear is OBVIOUSLY politically motivated by, I would guess, some people who truly ARE racist.

I don't believe Ron's lying about a thing.

And he was truly angry that this kind of tactic is being used by the media and those with ulterior motives .

He NAILED the answer on CNN.

If he didn't want to use campaign donation money to return it, he should have taken money out of his pocket
like he wanted to do with the medal for Rosa Parks from Congress.

I understand Libertarian views on "groups verses "individuals", but sometimes, you have to make a point.

There are few if not no "absolutes". Libertarian ideals included.

There are exceptions to the rules, this is one case where that's true. It could have been handled much better.

Ron's not finished by any means. We'll just have to take this lemon and make lemonade.

Use it as a platform to explain the prejudices against minorities in the wars both in Iraq and against drugs.

The same people making these claims are the same people who bribe economically disadvantaged minorities
to join the military with "bonuses" that the well-to-do don't need, and the poor desperately do need.

Onward and upward from here. Take the FUD and use it for good.

[Mark]

I don't believe Ron Paul is a racist. But I believe he is or has been associated with racists, and/or sympathizes with racism, or seems willing to pander to racists and is slow to disavow them. (For instance, during the whole $500 donation scandal, he never explicitly said he didn't want donations from racists until the PBS interview, which aired after Ron Paul had several chances to explain the donation.

I do not believe his policies are racist, and he makes the good point that sensible drug policy would actually help blacks. However, libertarianism is idealogically opposed to affirmative action and anti-discrimination laws on the property rights argument that the government can't tell you, as a property (business) owner that you have to associate with people you don't want to choose to associate with, no matter what the reason. I oppose affirimative action, but I am hesitant to remove anti-discrimination laws depite their being un-libertarian because I definitely think the greater good of allowing a freer society for all must trump property rights in that case, but that is a divergence from "pure" libertarianism that I am not sure Ron Paul shares. This is the reason racists are attracted to Ron Paul, and I'm a little bothered that some people close to Ron might be more interested in that side of libertarian ideas than other sides.

Are you serious?

Or are you just another dis-info agent? If you think he's sympathetic towards racism why not go and work for another campaign.

If you're not already.

I don't think Ron wants support from people who say he's sympathetic towards people he adamantly disagrees with.

[manny]

This is getting very silly and is what the MSM hoped to do :mad:. I've read through most of this thread and just want to explain why I am still supporting Ron 100% and try to provide some perspective.

Ron is, as he himself said, the anti-racist candidate.

He has a huge number of articles on lewrockwell and ronpaullibrary, countless speeches recorded in congress, campaigning in two presedential elections, participated in numerous televised debates, written a dozen books, given many many interviews, been a congressman for 30 years and a locally very well known doctor before than ... and yet in all that there is not one racist thing/sentence/comment/word/idea anyone can find. Not one even remotely racist thing.

In fact he has spoken openly about ending the war on drugs and how it has hurt minorities most.

He has spoken out against the death penalty and the way it is used disproportionately against black americans.

He is the only major candidate running who will stop the bloodshed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Anyone want to take a guess on which ethnic groups are over-represented in the lower ranks of the armed forces?

He has spoken out against the sometimes overt anti-muslim hysteria whipped up by bloodthirsty politicians like Rudy and McCain (want to compare racist phrases used?) in an attempt to provoke more wars in the middle-east. Ron would single-handedly save hundreds of thousands of Arab lives, and US soldiers, by ending the wars.

And then, some crypto-communist finds a newsletter Ron lent his name to (while he was thousands of miles away working as a doctor saving newborn lives) where some nut writes terrible things about black people. Ron never wrote those things and nobody has the slightest shred of evidence to say otherwise. Indeed there are quotes out there to back up the fact that Ron was very angry and disappointed when he was eventually shown the articles - as he would be since there are diametrically opposed to what he believes in. Ron's a gentleman who isn't going to hang anyone out to dry even if he does know/could find out wrote the articles. (I'll agree with those who say it would be beneficial if the guy who wrote it owned up - but I think it's unlikely, which suggests it was written by someone not close/who doesn't care about Ron.) It is a complete red herring - and half the forum seems to have fallen for it?!:eek:

The MSM have tried. This is their best shot since as far as I can tell there is nothing else in Ron's biography they can latch onto. They've tried and they'll fail.

Ron has answered it and if we can let it go, the others will too. Hillary joked about Asian Indians running gas stations, McCain calls Asians "gooks" - And the best they've got on Ron is a newsletter he didn't write!! Come on! Please! :rolleyes: We need to concentrate on foreign policy, economics, civil liberties, the constitution; those things that will win the election. And how to get those messages out there.

Sorry to rant. Just my 2 cents (equivalent 0.0002 cents courtesy of the Fed ;))

[Drea]

I was out with the meetup group waving signs at a busy intersection in Chicago today. It wasn't huge (maybe 20 people at one time) but i thought it was pretty successful.

Several times today I heard people calling Ron Paul a racist, yelling from cars or coming right up to us. Most of them wouldn't even let us clear it up for them which was disappointing. A lot of liberals around here would be receptive to Dr. Paul's message but it looks like the smear campaign was effective. Anyone else seeing this? I thought it might be a good idea to make a separate slim jim or some handout made to address this.

Another thing I thought was interesting was the disproportionately high amount of enthusiasm from cab drivers. I can't tell you how many were honking for us and shouting "Go Ron Paul" in support. A good number of them rolled down their windows and asked for our handouts. I'm curious as to if this is because of those tip cards people hand out. If so, this is very encouraging. What a great idea.

I took some video of the meetup members talking about their support...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN-XA100TF4


Hey! Thank you for all you are doing! This is my area too! (Chicago!)

Please ignore the 1st poster. Just go through and read his posts to see where he lies. That will explain it.

Great job and great vid!

Drea

[worldsupport]

this is what we need more of.

[Drea]

hhahahahaha... I don't know.. I just don't know..

cab drivers support? Liberals receptive? Racist?

hahha.. alot of keywords.... I smell something, not sure yet...

I have to say to you that I have read so many of YOUR posts that make me question your intentions. Not all of them do, but enough for me to be aware of your user name and doubt all you have to say.

And now this.

And now this thread has turned into something nasty (for a good part).

Drea

[manny]

I have to say to you that I have read so many of YOUR posts that make me question your intentions. Not all of them do, but enough for me to be aware of your user name and doubt all you have to say.

And now this.

And now this thread has turned into something nasty (for a good part).

Drea


Hi Drea - welcome to the forum.

I know that coming somewhere new it can be hard to figure people out online, but Xar has been here ages and is one of the hardest working supporters of Ron. You know that famous image of Ron 's face made of pics of supporters super-imposed over the constitution - Xar made that.

We're all on the same team - let's work together. :)

[Drea]

Hi Drea - welcome to the forum.

I know that coming somewhere new it can be hard to figure people out online, but Xar has been here ages and is one of the hardest working supporters of Ron. You know that famous image of Ron 's face made of pics of supporters super-imposed over the constitution - Xar made that.

We're all on the same team - let's work together. :)

I understand what you are saying Manny, I do. I've seen how many posts he has and what he has been involved in, but some of them I read and I think "who wrote this?" and look at the user name.

Some of his have puzzled me --and now this one. Why would he attack these guys?

I just don't get it.

I have done my share of attacking when people are posting negative crap (you can look). And I don't care if my post count was low when I did it. I know who I stand for. But I made sure I did my reading before I posted anything.

These guys were just voicing how hard it is to get through to some people out there on the streets. It IS a slap in the face. In Chicago, if you get a group of these people together --it is group think and "PARTY!" and mocking anything you have to say. I know what they are going thru.

Drea

[Revolution9]

Last week we held the huge RP sign (4'x8') on the overpass, and there was a white guy who walked past us and asked if he (RP) took money from a white supremacist. We had to answer yes, and tried to "clear it up" for him, but he said, "No, that's all I need to know..."

OTOH, someone was out signwaving in ATL today and noticed that there was a lot MORE support from African-Americans than there was last week. I have also noticed the the AAs seem to like him here in the suburbs.

Yes. At the Freedom Park wavings we get a very high percentage of black folks taking literature and honking. They range from the very young hip hop crowd to the old fashioned upright and dignified grandma and grandpa. They do not fall for the race card canard. Seems the ones who swallow that hook, line and sinker are those who have inculcated white guilt ala Americana in them. I am born and raised Canadian so this whole race thing down here (26 years in Atlanta) is rather amusing in an odd fashion to me. It does not happen between individuals but between groups. Put the individuals together and they will work or party or talk with no race issues. America..go figure..

Best
Randy

[ButchHowdy]

What Do You Guys Want Me To Do To Prove Im Not A Fake?!?!?

If you can make the Cubs win this year - I will believe you!

[DAFTEK]

I'm just pissed this forum is falling apart because of those racist letters. We need to close down all threads and totally ignore the issue. Its only dividing us.

Feel free to delete your account and have a nice day.

[Revolution9]

I have to say to you that I have read so many of YOUR posts that make me question your intentions. Not all of them do, but enough for me to be aware of your user name and doubt all you have to say.

And now this.

And now this thread has turned into something nasty (for a good part).

Drea

Lord Xar created the famous RP Mosaic and has formed a PAC that has produced many commercials and print ads. He is just being a sheepdog. We do not like folks trolling the forum. It takes varying amounts of input for various sheepdog to come to a conclusion about the reality or trollishness of a new forum poster. If the OP was a troll I would have set about killing him already. The OP..as he hangs here..will understand why he got the "treatment". He will probably be set to do it to someone else for their posts. When you arrive as a fully charged RP supporter you feel very, very, very protective towards the campaign.

Best
Randy

[alaric]

i created the youtube account today specifically for ron paul stuff.
what do you want me to do to prove that i was at a meetup today? fake ron paul supporters? they'd probably be pissed if they heard that.

this is getting rediculous

edit: also, i dont understand what in this thread is supposed to be an attack. you have 10 posts yourself.. why are you more qualified than me?

I just looked at the video. I didn't before due to my own fault. I see a bunch of people who are really COLD, as in brrrr! They did not appear smarmy or fake. To stand out in the cold in heavy communist territory is to be admired. These people are new to the campaign and I question those attacking them. And no, I don't know them and i live far away in the people's republic of NJ, so I can sympathize with what they put up with. I've been at this a while and my wife and I have created a few hundred Ron Paul votes out of thin air!:)

[LibertyEagle]

But no, now Ron and us have to listen to the FUD all day long, because he didn't have the sense to do a simple thing like return $500.

I think you are confusing "sense" with principles.

I thought one of the things that drew us to Ron Paul was his consistent, principled stance. However, this time, we don't seem to like it so much.

Ron has never taken the easy way out, to my knowledge. Whether that meant being the sole person to vote NO on a piece of legislation, vote against giving a medal to the Pope, Rosa Parks or Ronald Reagan; or whether that meant refusing to return a check from Don Black for pure political expediency.

You know all the reasons why he didn't return it, as well as I do.

[Korey Kaczynski]

That's when you say, "Every candidate has received donations from white supremacists, Ron Paul is the only one that has been attacked for it."

"whoa whoa whoa whoa, gotta keep things simple for me. Off to McDonalds, now..."

[reverse]

Not going to read the whole thread (sorry) but the counter to the 'He took money from a white supremacist' is not yes or no, but 'A white supremacist did donate money to the campaign, as many other people in America have. '

[Bossobass]

It's funny to me how many people view Ron Paul's answers as though it is themselves who are answering the questions.

Ron doesn't lie. He doesn't cover up. There is no reason to 'think' anything about his answers to any question. They are believable at face value. There is nothing else to think. The burden of proof lies with those who accuse, not with Ron Paul. One would think that they would already know who wrote the articles (and they do), and have investigated the situation thoroughly (and they have) before confronting Ron with this utter non-story (which they know it is).

Libertarians cannot possibly be racist. Ron believes in individual liberty. One cannot believe in individual rights if one is racist.

Declaration of Independence, in part:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Ron Paul:

"We don't get our rights because we're gays, or women, or minorities. We get our rights from our Creator, as individuals, so everyone should be treated the same, as individuals."

Ron Paul is the last politician we have who should be treated with respect for his unwavering and undying support for our Constitution. For having refused to ever compromise his Oath. For having had to and continually having to endure ridicule for doing the right thing. For never having taken one dime from special interest lobbyists. For never having taken one dime from our Social Security Trust Fund. For never having taken one dime from Medicare or Medicaid. For refusing to take any of our money that Congress takes from our incomes and gives, in large portion, by way of a lucrative pension to every other willing member of Congress. For standing up to Alan Greenspan in our defense, time after time to an audience of zero. For having never lied. For having never been guilty of any misconduct. For standing in front of a national broadcast camera and saying this war is over oil, and I'll end it immediately and bring our troops home. The list goes on and on...

Ron Paul didn't 'take' anything from anyone. He received donations. $500.00 from an American who is guilty of nothing more than a bizarre belief system? Why aren't the press and Americans grilling Obama and Hillary, who each received $500,000.00 from Wall Street Bankers, who are guilty of many crimes against the state, are in constant defense of those charges and have paid millions in fines to avoid charges going to trial? They both received these donations in the first quarter of '07 alone. How much more since? Where is the outrage? Where are the feet being held to the fire over those donations?

What would a President Paul owe the 'white supremacist' in return for his $500.00 donation? Nothing more than to exercise his Constitutional power to protect every American's freedom to think what he wants to think.

What would a President Clinton or Obama owe the wall street bankers for their $500,000.00 donations? God only knows, but my guess it will be worth a lot more and have nothing to do with the Constitution.

Bosso