View Full Version : Help Me!!!!
garrettwombat
01-12-2008, 03:30 PM
The Constitution was followed when Congress voted approval for sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan.
im debating with my county GOP chairmen and i need help
for the longest time i thought congress never voted for approval to send troops into iraq, now this guy is telling me they did?
what really went down?
jabrownie
01-12-2008, 03:31 PM
They voted to give permission to go after Al Queda or anybody harboring Al Queda. I don't remember the bill number or exact language, but that's the jist of it. Therefore, Afgahnistan was ok, but Iraq was not.
AlbemarleNC0003
01-12-2008, 03:34 PM
Authorization for Use of Force in Iraq.
Paul voted against it. House Resolution 114
http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
jabrownie
01-12-2008, 03:35 PM
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:S.J.RES.23.ENR:
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force'.
SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
(b) War Powers Resolution Requirements-
(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this resolution supercedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.
JeffersonThomas
01-12-2008, 03:36 PM
+1 for explanation about all this please...?
AlbemarleNC0003
01-12-2008, 03:36 PM
They voted to give permission to go after Al Queda or anybody harboring Al Queda. I don't remember the bill number or exact language, but that's the jist of it. Therefore, Afgahnistan was ok, but Iraq was not.
There were two bills passed. One on Sept 18 2001, the Iraq one was passed in 2002.
Text of the AUMF
[edit] Introduction
Begun and held at the City of Washington on Wednesday, the third day of January, two thousand and one, a States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.
Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and
Whereas, such acts render it both necessary and appropriate that the United States exercise its rights to self-defense and to protect United States citizens both at home and abroad; and
Whereas, in light of the threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by these grave acts of violence; and
Whereas, such acts continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States; and
Whereas, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
[edit] Section 1 - Short Title
This joint resolution may be cited as the 'Authorization for Use of Military Force'.
[edit] Section 2 - Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces
(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
(b) War Powers Resolution Requirements-
(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this resolution supercedes (sic) any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.
Speaker of the House of Representatives.
Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate.
AlbemarleNC0003
01-12-2008, 03:38 PM
Paul voted for the first in 2001, going after Osama etc. He voted against the Iraq invasion in 2002 because he saw no change in the threat from previous years.
nc4rp
01-12-2008, 03:39 PM
tell him, congress never declared war on a nation. the law says that you can only go to a Declared war against a nation and then only when approved by congress. This was Never done.
The congress authorising money to go after al quaida is different than a declaration of war against a sovreign nation. the "war" is fabricated to gain control over oil/no-bid contracts for haliburten/Bush Inc - and therefore is illegal.(not to mention based upon fabricated evidence)
AlbemarleNC0003
01-12-2008, 03:40 PM
tell him, congress never declared war on a nation. the law says that you can only go to a Declared war against a nation and then only when approved by congress. This was Never done.
The congress authorising money to go after al quaida is different than a declaration of war against a sovreign nation.
This too.
Spirit of '76
01-12-2008, 03:43 PM
Essentially, Congress passed two bills that let them give up their Constitutional authority to declare war and let the president commit our troops to ongoing military action against a country that was no threat to us and without ever having to declare war.
It was a way for Congress to send us to war without ever having to vote to declare war. They're a bunch of cowards.
jabrownie
01-12-2008, 03:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States
this will give a basic explanation of the differences between a formal declaration of war, and the two resolutions that were passed.
garrettwombat
01-12-2008, 03:45 PM
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force'.
SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
(b) War Powers Resolution Requirements-
(1) SPECIFIC STATUTORY AUTHORIZATION- Consistent with section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress declares that this section is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of the War Powers Resolution.
(2) APPLICABILITY OF OTHER REQUIREMENTS- Nothing in this resolution supercedes any requirement of the War Powers Resolution.
so does that make it constitutional for what we did?
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