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robertwerden
01-11-2008, 02:24 PM
I wrote:
From: Robert Werden
To: Frank I. Luntz
Sent: Fri Jan 11 11:53:48 2008
Subject: Your electronic meter

Why does the electronic meter go down before Ron Paul starts speaking Frank?

"Fuck you Frank"
Penn and Teller

[edit/forum guidelines]


He Responded:

From: Frank I. Luntz
Date: 1/11/2008 11:57:19 AM
Subject: Re: Your electronic meter


Because rank and file republicans dont like him at all.

I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says, and i think he's a great congressman. Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.

Sent from my blackberry.



I responded back and said if he likes Ron Paul, then do a youtube endorsement. I told him I would even pay him for his time to do it. Paying for endorsements is common and probably the only way the other guys get endorsements.

If he says he will, we should pay him just to throw it in FOX's face.

Here is his reply"

I worked for rudy -- yet he hasnt won a single focus group. It's not my fault rudy doesnt perform well. It's his.

I have received four threatening emails since last night from ron paul's people. That is what i will probably talk about tonight. You people scare me -- and you're destroying the viability and credibility of your candidate by the way you all behave.

Sent from my blackberry.


My reply:
Doing that will get people even angrier at you. You just don't get it. You are the megaphone for the debates. You know as a pollster you can influence the election. That is a dangerous position to be in when you hurt the chances of a candidate. For once we have someone running who is not establishment and FOX puts out smears left and right to destroy his chances. The Ron Paul supporters got mad after you smeared him not before. Why do you think they boycott you and FOX?

You see it as an attack on you, when in reality it is a retaliation. The fact is Ron Paul supporters are so devoted they will never stop. The more you push them the more you will get retaliation. As a pollster you are stepping over the bounds of your duties. People will always revolt to those actions.

I know you are paid to smear Paul and you are entitled to earn a living. Even Bill O' admitted its all an act, you should admit you are being paid to say what you say, and the people may see it for what it is, which is ratings.

kirkblitz
01-11-2008, 02:24 PM
wow. he actually responds to people?

gracebkr
01-11-2008, 02:26 PM
I hate remarks like that. It's like the people who like Jesus but not Christians. Uh, if it wasn't for us loony supporters, Ron Paul would be dead in the dirt. It is because of us Luntz gets to hear his message!

luvthedoc08
01-11-2008, 02:27 PM
wow. he actually responds to people?

ya what? hit him till it hurts baby

reaver
01-11-2008, 02:27 PM
It's a shame he got those people with bias in there.

kirkblitz
01-11-2008, 02:28 PM
email bomb, break his black berry.

ClayTrainor
01-11-2008, 02:29 PM
Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.



That's okay frank, we dont like you either. We find your polls manipulative and abusive of public opinion!

29ytsejam
01-11-2008, 02:30 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.

Edward
01-11-2008, 02:31 PM
I wrote:
From: Robert Werden
To: Frank I. Luntz
Sent: Fri Jan 11 11:53:48 2008
Subject: Your electronic meter

Why does the electronic meter go down before Ron Paul starts speaking Frank?

"Fuck you Frank"
Penn and Teller

[edit for quote]


He Responded:

From: Frank I. Luntz
Date: 1/11/2008 11:57:19 AM
Subject: Re: Your electronic meter


Because rank and file republicans dont like him at all.

I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says, and i think he's a great congressman. Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.

Sent from my blackberry.I can't help but think from your e-mail that something about his response is spot on...

Xenophage
01-11-2008, 02:32 PM
So the rank n' file republicans that Frank hand picked for his group started hitting the "Dislike" buttons as soon as they saw Ron Paul's face.

ClayTrainor
01-11-2008, 02:33 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.

I don't think anyone at fox deserves kindness personally, but focusing on getting votes is MUCH more important.

Frank is making polls that sway public opinion to support things like fighting and dying overseas for oil.

This man is a party of our enemy, and we cant be passive about what he does!

I fully support the constant monitoring of his focus groups and polls and calling him out on EVERYTHING he does that is blatant manipulation.

The "Fuck You Frank" line is awesome, but i dont think people should shout it at him when he's out willing to talk to Paul supporters. Just debate him on the issues, no need to tell him Fuck You, that definitely makes us look immature.

"Fuck You Frank" is best left to people driving by frank in a car, or the internet :D

Tenbatsu
01-11-2008, 02:34 PM
Well behaved citizens will never change the world.

ConstitutionGal
01-11-2008, 02:34 PM
I notice that Frank didn't bother to address your question....

AlexMerced
01-11-2008, 02:34 PM
watch my video on civil disobedience on youtube, I think it get the point across

Korey Kaczynski
01-11-2008, 02:35 PM
I hate remarks like that. It's like the people who like Jesus but not Christians. Uh, if it wasn't for us loony supporters, Ron Paul would be dead in the dirt. It is because of us Luntz gets to hear his message!

He's being manipulative. It's been obvious from before that Luntz doesn't like Paul AT ALL.

It's the same thing Ed Failor, Saul Anuzis (sp), and etc. have all said before, but have tried to smear Ron Paul.

brianbb98
01-11-2008, 02:35 PM
He's paid by faux to tell people what faux wants them to hear. Simple as that.

You see his apartment in the penn & teller piece? He's poor. He'll say anything for a buck. :)

Rangeley
01-11-2008, 02:36 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.
Ill go even further - and I dont hate to say it. Not only is it making Ron Paul look bad, but its the wrong thing to do. This attitude that people you disagree with are deserving of no respect is utterly wrong. I have absolutely no problem with people who want to confront those who put out biased material - I have sent emails myself to people. But some of you must get it through your head that treating people like dirt is absolutely indefensible, in any context.

disciple
01-11-2008, 02:36 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.

For the treatment the good Doctor has been getting for the media from day one, no we don't like it. They pretend that we do not exist, and so we are upset.

Sorry, we've waited a long time for someone like the good Doctor to come along, and no one 's going to dampen our enthusiasm.

29ytsejam
01-11-2008, 02:36 PM
I don't think anyone at fox deserves kindness personally, but focusing on getting votes is MUCH more important.

Frank is making polls that sway public opinion to support things like fighting and dying overseas for oil.

This man is a party of our enemy, and we cant be passive about what he does!

I fully support the constant monitoring of his focus groups and polls and calling him out on EVERYTHING he does that is blatant manipulation.

By all means counter his misinformation, but don't scream at him in public, threaten to go stake out his house, etc. (not saying you have, but it's what I've read people talking about in various places). That crosses the line into wacko land as far as the public is concerned.

rp4prez
01-11-2008, 02:38 PM
uhm.. how do we know this is real?

SovereignMN
01-11-2008, 02:38 PM
I notice that Frank didn't bother to address your question....

He did answer it. He says Republicans dislike Paul so much that they turn down their dial as soon as they know he's going to speak next.

A better question for Frank Luntz would be...if Ron Paul has been garnering nearly 10% in all the early primary states thus far and your focus groups are supposed to represent your average Republican then why haven't seen seen ONE Ron Paul supporter in your focus groups over the past year? If you've had a couple hundred people go through your focus groups since May of last year shouldn't we have seen at least 1 Paul supporter? The fact that we haven't tells me your sample is spoiled and not worthy of consideration.

Edward
01-11-2008, 02:39 PM
I notice that Frank didn't bother to address your question....Maybe Frank would have if the OP hadn't written FU to him.

Deborah K
01-11-2008, 02:41 PM
So email him back and ask why his focus groups are rigged. Send him this clip that proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt!!

http://alternet.org/blogs/democracy/#73083

raiha
01-11-2008, 02:42 PM
Machiavelli also thought the ends justify the means. How would Ron Paul behave???

762x54r
01-11-2008, 02:44 PM
[
Because rank and file republicans dont like him at all.

Who can deny this is true? This is a long war. Socialists didn't gain control of the higher education system overnight...they did it by slow indoctrination. Progressives have used the long war to take power within the democratic party.

How many of you have "explained" your foreign policy positions to people but all they hear is "blame America first" ? Frustrating isn't it? And what about trying to explain the unintended consequences of allowing the fed to control the money supply? Not easy is it when most people don't have the background knowledge to put your argument in context...if they even have the attention span of more than 30 seconds.

The revolution does not end with RP or this election cycle. I'll write him in if I have to. I will continue on regardless.

jdmetz
01-11-2008, 02:54 PM
I hate remarks like that. It's like the people who like Jesus but not Christians. Uh, if it wasn't for us loony supporters, Ron Paul would be dead in the dirt. It is because of us Luntz gets to hear his message!

Well, Ron Paul and Jesus both have the problem that a lot of their followers do a poor job of representing them. Anyway, if anyone here has rejected the message of Jesus Christ because of the way his followers act, maybe you could give him another look sometime (and keep in mind how you feel about people rejecting Ron Paul because of his followers).

ClayTrainor
01-11-2008, 02:55 PM
By all means counter his misinformation, but don't scream at him in public, threaten to go stake out his house, etc. (not saying you have, but it's what I've read people talking about in various places). That crosses the line into wacko land as far as the public is concerned.

yea i definitely agree.

We need to respect people a bit more in public, but i really dont blame the supporters for being so angry.

These are some pretty evil people.

BrandonHS
01-11-2008, 02:56 PM
I just find it odd. This, is regarding last nights Republican Debate. When Frank shows his little 'chart' and you notice that the median level, or average, normal level is silence. Which is fine. Then, he goes and shows the two immature replies(In my opinion) from Fred Thompson and Mike Huckabitch. Of which, the meter goes way off the chart, in a positive. And I admit, there was a lot of cheering.

However. If the median is silence, how is it that when he shows the chart for Ron Paul, when there were even people clapping and cheering, the meter shoots way down. Below the chart its self. It just amazes me.

On another note, when he asked his focus group to raise their hands if they thought Fred Thompson won, about five or so people failed to raise their hand the second time he asked. And to believe they all thought Fred won, and Paul lost? Hah, don't make me laugh. Fred was no where near winning, even if I TRY to agree with everything he says, and arrogantly side with him. Nope.

- Heres my rant.

melianthus
01-11-2008, 02:59 PM
Frank is right.

Regardless of how he skews his focus groups, the rank and file republicans do NOT like Ron Paul. Most Republicans have totally bought into the empire. It's as if Goldwater and Reagan never even existed.

And what is left to say about some of the most vocal of his supporters. While we might think it is funny that people chase Hannity down the street lobbing snowballs at him, the vast majority of people are frightened by it. They think we are a bunch of rabble ready to really go to arms.

We have harassed every writer in the world who disagrees with us, and we haven't done it with honey. We have done it with vinegar.

The majority of people in this country will not vote for a candidate whose supporters are featured prominently on the Internet and on the television as a bunch of rabblerousers.

Having said that, off I go to canvass.

BrandonHS
01-11-2008, 03:01 PM
Frank is right.

Regardless of how he skews his focus groups, the rank and file republicans do NOT like Ron Paul. Most Republicans have totally bought into the empire. It's as if Goldwater and Reagan never even existed.

And what is left to say about some of the most vocal of his supporters. While we might think it is funny that people chase Hannity down the street lobbing snowballs at him, the vast majority of people are frightened by it. They think we are a bunch of rabble ready to really go to arms.

We have harassed every writer in the world who disagrees with us, and we haven't done it with honey. We have done it with vinegar.

The majority of people in this country will not vote for a candidate whose supporters are featured prominently on the Internet and on the television as a bunch of rabblerousers.

Having said that, off I go to canvass.

Unfortunately, this is a true statement.

MrCobaltBlue
01-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Wait Frank Luntz... Agrees with Dr. Paul?

Brain... splody...

RustyBrewster
01-11-2008, 03:04 PM
I wrote:
From: Robert Werden
To: Frank I. Luntz
Sent: Fri Jan 11 11:53:48 2008
Subject: Your electronic meter

Why does the electronic meter go down before Ron Paul starts speaking Frank?

"Fuck you Frank"
Penn and Teller

[edit for quote].




inappropriate and uncalled for.

Deborah K
01-11-2008, 03:06 PM
I happen to think that skewing the focus groups is incredibly deceptive and vile. Especially given that he asked the questions that he did about Ron Paul and given that apparently there was a woman in the group who claims that about 13 of them were favorable to Ron Paul in the very beginning but that this pig worked on them to change their views.

RustyBrewster
01-11-2008, 03:12 PM
Frank is right.

Regardless of how he skews his focus groups, the rank and file republicans do NOT like Ron Paul. Most Republicans have totally bought into the empire. It's as if Goldwater and Reagan never even existed.

And what is left to say about some of the most vocal of his supporters. While we might think it is funny that people chase Hannity down the street lobbing snowballs at him, the vast majority of people are frightened by it. They think we are a bunch of rabble ready to really go to arms.

We have harassed every writer in the world who disagrees with us, and we haven't done it with honey. We have done it with vinegar.

The majority of people in this country will not vote for a candidate whose supporters are featured prominently on the Internet and on the television as a bunch of rabblerousers.

Having said that, off I go to canvass.

Well said. I'm one of those people that finds it frightening how malicious some of the most active Paul supporters can be.

I've seen several youtube videos of Paul supporters being extremely inappropriately confrontational and it is one of the things that is keeping me from being a part of my local meet up group.

rtil
01-11-2008, 03:15 PM
You shouldn't have written "fuck you" in the e-mail. Be more professional, people.

enjerth
01-11-2008, 03:16 PM
Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.

Tell him he has no idea what he's talking about. Ron Paul supporters far outnumber the few jerks who have been rude and abusive to him.

On the other hand, rigging the review of the debates will, in fact, make Ron Paul supporters irate and dislike you. I have not been one to say "Fuck you, Frank!" But I tell you what, the way he's going, it won't be long.

smartguy911
01-11-2008, 03:17 PM
I wrote:
From: Robert Werden
To: Frank I. Luntz
Sent: Fri Jan 11 11:53:48 2008
Subject: Your electronic meter

Why does the electronic meter go down before Ron Paul starts speaking Frank?

"Fuck you Frank"
Penn and Teller

[edit for quote]


He Responded:

From: Frank I. Luntz
Date: 1/11/2008 11:57:19 AM
Subject: Re: Your electronic meter


Because rank and file republicans dont like him at all.

I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says, and i think he's a great congressman. Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.

Sent from my blackberry.



I responded back and said if he likes Ron Paul, then do a youtube endorsement. I told him I would even pay him for his time to do it. Paying for endorsements is common and probably the only way the other guys get endorsements.

If he says he will, we should pay him just to throw it in FOX's face.

He might be right and maybe that's turning off a lot of people.

MikeFallopian
01-11-2008, 03:18 PM
inappropriate and uncalled for.

Yeah, I'm actually shocked that Frank responded at all. OP should write an apology email and thank him for the response.

robertwerden
01-11-2008, 03:19 PM
This is war. It is war against the establishment.
If people like Frank Luntz work for the establishment, then they are our enemy.

If they want to bring a fight against Ron Paul and his supporters, I say let it come, let it come.

Our chains are being forged with in the commentary of these media personalities. If they choose to go down this path, I warn them of the war they will get. To call them names and threaten a continued fight against them is nothing compared to the war that will come if they continue with the Bush doctrine.
I will not give up and to them I repeat Patrick Henry, Give me Liberty, or give me death

Edward
01-11-2008, 03:19 PM
This is war. It is war against the establishment.
If people like Frank Luntz work for the establishment, then they are our enemy.

If they want to bring a fight against Ron Paul and his supporters, I say let it come, let it come.

Our chains are being forged with in the commentary of these media personalities. If they choose to go down this path, I warn them of the war they will get. To call them names and threaten a continued fight against them is nothing compared to the war that will come if they continue with the Bush doctrine.
I will not give up and to them I repeat Patrick Henry, Give me Liberty, or give me deathWow. You said "fuck you" to the guy. I can't say that I'm inspired.

robertwerden
01-11-2008, 03:20 PM
You shouldn't have written "fuck you" in the e-mail. Be more professional, people.

I was quoting Penn and Teller. They are the ones who said that, not me.

rtil
01-11-2008, 03:22 PM
That and the "a lot of people don't like you". I mean I don't care who said it, you just don't write that. You're only furthering his point about supporters being abusive.

John P Slevin
01-11-2008, 03:23 PM
Why did the focus group talk like a bunch of yankees? Where were the southern accents?

Rangeley
01-11-2008, 03:23 PM
If you sent it to him, you said it.

Talldude1412
01-11-2008, 03:27 PM
The OP is a perfect example of someone who just straight up doesn't get that being offensive and divisive when promoting Ron Paul is COUNTER productive. Yes Frank Lutz might DESERVE ridicule and insults, but we represent someone else other than ourselves when we do this stuff. People generally generalize, its an ironic truth. Asking Frank in a cool and reasonable manner would have been far more useful. He may have had a moment of calm and answer reasonably before returning to his anger. We can learn a lot about our opponents if we approach them correctly. No matter if they conspire against us, they are still humans and you may find they might tell you more if you don't swear at them. Go figure.

Learning how we are viewed from others people's eyes is important, you might even say that is the thesis to Dr. Paul's anti-terrorism arguments. If you learn the reasons people are against you, you now have a path to use to change their mind or at the very least undermine their support.

Knut Schreiber
01-11-2008, 03:27 PM
I completely agree with what has been said. Everytime supporters do stupid things it will have BLOWBACK for Ron Pauls campaign. I doubt Fox is against us because of that, though. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't behave. More important is that undecided voters get wrong impressions, and there were several posts about supporters being aggressive and arrogant towards people on the streets when canvassing, too.

robertwerden
01-11-2008, 03:27 PM
If you sent it to him, you said it.

So im supposed to be nice and sweet to the guy who is the megaphone for hate towards Ron Paul. Give me a break.

You sit and be a good sheeple and I'll take the heat for your liberties

DealzOnWheelz
01-11-2008, 03:30 PM
Ok Frank is a putz

Someone needs to sit him down and explain a term i like to call "BLOWBACK"

When you try to sway an election in a certain direction(ie propping up these so called leaders) is exactly what caused 911 the people were outraged and decided they had enough and we all know what happened next.

This guy is living in a fantasy world.

And if he did indeed like Ron Paul but didn't like his supporters then he would still support him and not do his best to discredit him.

I do think alot of the RP supporters go a little overboard but I can't say they haven't been provoked

Ron Paul supporters are like WASPS if you poke their nest they will all swarm and sting the fuck outta you

Talldude1412
01-11-2008, 03:31 PM
So im supposed to be nice and sweet to the guy who is the megaphone for hate towards Ron Paul. Give me a break.

You sit and be a good sheeple and I'll take the heat for your liberties

HAHAHAHA, you are so noble, bearing the message of F U frank. If thats taking the heat for liberties, then I have vastly underestimated our opposition. Excellent inserting of sheeple too, don't you ever get tired of trying to hold yourself above your fellow Ron Paul supporters just because they disagree with you?

Edward
01-11-2008, 03:31 PM
So im supposed to be nice and sweet to the guy who is the megaphone for hate towards Ron Paul. Give me a break.

You sit and be a good sheeple and I'll take the heat for your libertiesNo, you're supposed to ignore him and not bring blowback upon Paul or his supporters

robertwerden
01-11-2008, 03:32 PM
HAHAHAHA, you are so noble, bearing the message of F U frank. If thats taking the heat for liberties, then I have vastly underestimated our opposition. Excellent inserting of sheeple too, don't you ever get tired of trying to hold yourself above your fellow Ron Paul supporters just because they disagree with you?

Thats what Liberty is. You do what you want and I do what I want. Get it?

Edward
01-11-2008, 03:32 PM
Ok Frank is a putz

Someone needs to sit him down and explain a term i like to call "BLOWBACK"

When you try to sway an election in a certain direction(ie propping up these so called leaders) is exactly what caused 911 the people were outraged and decided they had enough and we all know what happened next.

This guy is living in a fantasy world.

And if he did indeed like Ron Paul but didn't like his supporters then he would still support him and not do his best to discredit him.

I do think alot of the RP supporters go a little overboard but I can't say they haven't been provoked

Ron Paul supporters are like WASPS if you poke their nest they will all swarm and sting the fuck outta youGee, we sure showed Frank.

Edward
01-11-2008, 03:34 PM
Thats what Liberty is. You do what you want and I do what I want. Get it?You're receiving blowback from Frank AND the people in this forum. Keep up that fight for liberty!

Rangeley
01-11-2008, 03:36 PM
So im supposed to be nice and sweet to the guy who is the megaphone for hate towards Ron Paul. Give me a break.

You sit and be a good sheeple and I'll take the heat for your liberties
You confront people with your ideas, not with insults or even things that can be taken as subtle threats of violence. Your tactics are counterproductive and will win no supporters.

CountryRoads
01-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Okay so uhhh...whats his e-mail address?

Talldude1412
01-11-2008, 03:37 PM
Thats what Liberty is. You do what you want and I do what I want. Get it?

Nooo, you silly man. This has nothing to do with your LIBERTY! This has to do with effective ways of spreading our message and representing Dr. Paul. I could give a hamster's kidney if you use these means to show your support for Tibet or your favorite meal at Wendy's, but when trying to spread an ideology, being abusive DOES NOT WORK.

VoluntaryMan
01-11-2008, 03:42 PM
I responded back and said if he likes Ron Paul, then do a youtube endorsement. I told him I would even pay him for his time to do it. Paying for endorsements is common and probably the only way the other guys get endorsements.


Yep. Where do ya think all those campaign contribution go? Wonder how much Leiberman and Kerry got? Bet it was over $1M each.

RustyBrewster
01-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Thats what Liberty is. You do what you want and I do what I want. Get it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMX_rqZx4Y4

american empire
01-11-2008, 03:45 PM
I can't help but think from your e-mail that something about his response is spot on...

Great.... loon....and what is that ???....I am just glad he doesnt like me.....

RustyBrewster
01-11-2008, 03:49 PM
So im supposed to be nice and sweet to the guy who is the megaphone for hate towards Ron Paul. Give me a break.

You sit and be a good sheeple and I'll take the heat for your liberties

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2943251094884799129

josh24601
01-11-2008, 03:53 PM
I've heard the same thing from a lot of people, actually.

A lot of RP's supporters are ironically a giant anchor around his neck.

Nothing the rest of us can do except try to remain positive and rational and hope it wins out over all of the vitriol.

Energy
01-11-2008, 03:58 PM
It's possible these "threats" are from agent provocateurs.

On the other hand, it's too naive to dislike a candidate because of the candidate's supporters.

OldBookGuy
01-11-2008, 03:58 PM
email bomb, break his black berry.

OK, that is EXACTLY what he is talking about, lets be rational and maybe try some sugar, afterall, vinegar is not working.

Lets TRY and get some GOOD PR?!

obg

slantedview
01-11-2008, 04:01 PM
"I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says"

Why shouldn't he acknowledge that? Will Fox be angry with him?

josh24601
01-11-2008, 04:02 PM
OK, that is EXACTLY what he is talking about, lets be rational and maybe try some sugar, afterall, vinegar is not working.

Lets TRY and get some GOOD PR?!

obg

I've given up, to be honest. Somehow a lot of children have taken over much of the vocal grassroots and they are enjoying hearing themselves too much to recognize the damage it does.

robertwerden
01-11-2008, 04:02 PM
"I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says"

Why shouldn't he acknowledge that? Will Fox be angry with him?
What amazes me is he keeps emailing me back.

coffeewithchess
01-11-2008, 04:02 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.

+1000

davidhperry
01-11-2008, 04:05 PM
I'm extremely surprised that Luntz justified your email with a response. I don't agree with him at all and I wish he would go away.

As a fellow supporter, I'm also embarrassed that I'm now associated with these kind of remarks. Your intentions are well justified, but you're actions are doing more harm than good.

A small minority of the RP supporters has been continually hostile since this whole thing started and it's just getting worse. Are we ready to stop this kind of stuff yet? We will never change everyone's mind. Do we now realize that brut force attacks don't work? Are we expecting Frank. Hannity, and others to just roll over and say: "Oh no, I've had one too many emails telling me to fuck off so I think I'll come to the light and support Ron Paul now. Hand me a bumper sticker!"

This is a war, but it's being fought the wrong way.

OldBookGuy
01-11-2008, 04:09 PM
I've given up, to be honest. Somehow a lot of children have taken over much of the vocal grassroots and they are enjoying hearing themselves too much to recognize the damage it does.

That is sad, Paul has a great message, one that needs to be mainstreamed.

Though new here, I am and have been a paul supporter for some time now.

This somehow needs to be reversed, if interested, post a reply and I will PM you with info as to who I am, what I have worked on and some ideas.

obg

CountryRoads
01-11-2008, 04:11 PM
I still havent seen his e-mail address...is this for real?

Catatonic
01-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Feeding sugar to the snakes we're up against only gets you bitten. Some of us have the scars to prove it.

But hey, do whatever you think works best.

davidhperry
01-11-2008, 04:24 PM
Feeding sugar to the snakes we're up against only gets you bitten. Some of us have the scars to prove it.

But hey, do whatever you think works best.

What do you recommend then?

robertwerden
01-11-2008, 04:29 PM
I still havent seen his e-mail address...is this for real?

It is on his website, im not going to give it out.

trispear
01-11-2008, 04:34 PM
I hate remarks like that. It's like the people who like Jesus but not Christians. Uh, if it wasn't for us loony supporters, Ron Paul would be dead in the dirt. It is because of us Luntz gets to hear his message!

Exactly. The "it's the supporters' fault" tagline is a weak excuse that servers two purposes:

1. It's used by many republicans or "conservative"/neocons/wilsonians to sort of show they are conservatives without admitting they are liberals.

and

2. As a distraction to cause infighting amoung ourselves in a fruitless blame game.

Remember, Frank Luntz is a bullshit artist that makes his living off bullshitting by making polls with results that please his clients. I don't even know why the OP wasted his time emailing: people are the most wonderful self-rationalizers. Frank Luntz is full of shit and has no credibility/integrity as during these debates he's been manipulating the audience with his room full of "undecided" voters (shills).

It's been proven again and again.

priest_of_syrinx
01-11-2008, 04:36 PM
I don't know if the "fuck you Frank" comment is needed, as he probably already knows the public opinion of himself.

I think he's right that aggressive messages like this are giving us a bad name.

Andrew-Austin
01-11-2008, 04:38 PM
Not that I agree with Mr. Luntz at all, but you guys don't need to be sending Fox over threats... (if there are people actually doing that)

Sey.Naci
01-11-2008, 04:42 PM
This, from the OP's email to Luntz
Watch out, there are many people who don't like you.This could easily be viewed as a threat and who's to know it wasn't meant that way?

I dislike FAUX and its talking heads as much as anyone and have done so since the network's beginning, but stupid stunts like this can only hurt RP and all his supporters.

freelance
01-11-2008, 04:49 PM
This, from the OP's email to LuntzThis could easily be viewed as a threat and who's to know it wasn't meant that way?

I dislike FAUX and its talking heads as much as anyone and have done so since the network's beginning, but stupid stunts like this can only hurt RP and all his supporters.

Well, exactly, and FOX news has been known to show up at people's doorsteps. Yes, they can get your IP address, and yes, they can find you through it. Not only that, but it puts Josh and Bryan in a bad position. By law, they could have to give out any information they have on you.

SeanEdwards
01-11-2008, 05:02 PM
Nice to hear the Frank is scared. Maybe that fear will help focus his mind on being more fair.

VoluntaryMan
01-11-2008, 05:14 PM
OK, that is EXACTLY what he is talking about, lets be rational and maybe try some sugar, afterall, vinegar is not working.

Lets TRY and get some GOOD PR?!

obg

If Frankie wants some sugar, he can get it from his cellmate, when he goes to prison for election tampering.:eek:

Lost Myth
01-11-2008, 05:19 PM
Nice to hear the Frank is scared. Maybe that fear will help focus his mind on being more fair.

And maybe if we threaten to kill some Iranians they'll like us more.

V4Vendetta
01-11-2008, 05:24 PM
What is Franks Email? No one here has posted it yet

Todd
01-11-2008, 05:31 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.

The bottom line is to get Paul to the White House. Anything that hijacks that goal is stupid. Gosh people...If were professional and do this the right way...we can act anyway we want...once it's over...., but to "lose it" in times of crisis and need is just plain juvenile and stupid. I can't stand Luntz, but what a powerful ally he could have been. People who make changes usually are the ones that seemed divisive without being reckless and learned how to build coalitions. Anyone can be divisive and reckless.

spiteface
01-11-2008, 05:38 PM
The dull edge of the grassroots spear bounces off another target and falls to the ground...:rolleyes:

Goldwater Conservative
01-11-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't blame him for being scared if he what he says is true, and I do think Paul supporters that act like that are doing the good doctor no favors, but does he really think they'd be that way if Paul wasn't constantly ignored or insulted by the pundits? Also, he's a pollster, how hard is it to get a representative focus group, i.e. 5% Paul supporters, 7% Giuliani supporters, 9% Thompson supporters, etc.? (Those numbers are the most recent RCP averages for South Carolina.)

Am3RiCaN_microcosm
01-11-2008, 05:46 PM
The OP is a perfect example of someone who just straight up doesn't get that being offensive and divisive when promoting Ron Paul is COUNTER productive.

Learning how we are viewed from others people's eyes is important, you might even say that is the thesis to Dr. Paul's anti-terrorism arguments.

QFT :D

I couldnt agree more. Futhermore, many of our foes can 'cogitate' with us some day and prove themselves irreplaceable allies. Can you not see this happening already? Be wise before you alienate people, or entire groups of people. The pen IS mightier than the sword - at least until Martial Law is in effect and our liberty is at the end of a gun barrel.

There are few who exist who will be able to refute the message of liberty and freedom - naturally it will take bit longer to get the message thru the 7-layer cake of BULLSHIT people have been scarfing for the last 30 years. Education on the grassroots level is certainly far more effective than alienation on the grassroots level. What are we really trying to accomplish here: do you WANT to have a civil war? I really think some do sometimes. Personally, I'd like it if our country wasn't a smoldering ruin by the time RP gets in the OO.... maybe it's just me :/

kaleidoscope eyes
01-11-2008, 05:48 PM
And maybe if we threaten to kill some Iranians they'll like us more.
bingo

sharedvoice
01-11-2008, 05:51 PM
Who's Frank? lol seriously who cares about that worm. Pass the salt.

Edward
01-11-2008, 05:53 PM
Great.... loon....and what is that ???....I am just glad he doesnt like me.....Frank should have added "clueless" to his reply.

RickyJ
01-11-2008, 05:58 PM
We have every right to be mad at this piece of crap know as Frank Luntz, but we shouldn't be threatening the a-hole. Put that energy into something like telling others about Paul, planting signs around your town for Paul, calling talk radio stations and talking about Paul. Letting these bastards get us diverted by their unfair tactics is not helping, it's exactly what the bastards want.

nate895
01-11-2008, 05:59 PM
I don't think anyone at fox deserves kindness personally, but focusing on getting votes is MUCH more important.

Frank is making polls that sway public opinion to support things like fighting and dying overseas for oil.

This man is a party of our enemy, and we cant be passive about what he does!

I fully support the constant monitoring of his focus groups and polls and calling him out on EVERYTHING he does that is blatant manipulation.

The "Fuck You Frank" line is awesome, but i dont think people should shout it at him when he's out willing to talk to Paul supporters. Just debate him on the issues, no need to tell him Fuck You, that definitely makes us look immature.

"Fuck You Frank" is best left to people driving by frank in a car, or the internet :D

This is our problem, we have someone who's sympathetic in Luntz (apparently), and we attack him because he's doing his job as a pollster, he doesn't choose the ignorant people in his focus group by hand (though he does invite them back). 40% of Republicans say they have a positive view of Dr. Paul, if we can convince the vast majority of them we are nice people and have a legitimate shot at winning, we will take the party by storm. I know many will disagree, but you can't win elections by making a would be friend an enemy, that's common sense. If we were at war on two fronts and France wanted to join our side, but only fight one out of our two enemies, would you say it's all or nothing, or get them to join the pact?

constitutional
01-11-2008, 05:59 PM
With all due respect,

F2ck you Frank.

rg123
01-11-2008, 06:04 PM
Frank's the kind of guy who walks away with all the money while everyone else goes to prison. He is a con mans con man but as much as I despise him he is brillant. On the other hand though he is guilty of manipulation of a presidential election. Sure you could say technically he isn't guilty of anything but the pre-meditated intent is there.

Peace&Freedom
01-11-2008, 06:06 PM
Exactly. The "it's the supporters' fault" tagline is a weak excuse that servers two purposes:

1. It's used by many republicans or "conservative"/neocons/wilsonians to sort of show they are conservatives without admitting they are liberals.

and

2. As a distraction to cause infighting amoung ourselves in a fruitless blame game.


Ah, somebody gets it!

Part of the issue is the FOX/neocon/Luntz project to deliberately wind us up to the point of becoming abusive, then to point to it as a self fulfilling prophesy. But the abusive tone has as its object to knock these pompous elite gods off their pedestal, to clearly communicate "we're not buying it, nor being polite about not buying it anymore." Revolution requires a bit of unsettling confrontation, as it is precisely its intent to 'unsettle' things. I must remind people of the Adams line from the play/movie 1776, that "this is a revolution---we're going to have to offend somebody!"

The other part is the duality of the Paul campaign, which is mirrored by its supporters. Paul is doing what is in one sense a traditional candidacy of 'get out the vote,' win votes, position yourself properly to gain votes, and so on. But the other element is the 'r3volution,' where Paul is committed to simply telling the truth and confronting the order by taking un-PC views, regardless of the vote factor. Because Paul himself has been forthright many of his supporters naturally are also committed to telling the truth, regardless of getting votes.

This has obviously been easy to exploit by the establishment, who have tried to force Paul to disown this or that faction espousing an unpopular view. Worse, it creates the situation where some supporters have taken it upon themselves to decide which non-PC element to ditch because 'it's costing us votes,' while leaving alone other non-PC positions Paul has defended even though they are ALSO costing him votes. Take your pick---civil war/Lincoln, understanding Mideast blowback, the Fed as the cause of our economic woes, etc.

Each Paul position may be true, but is not necessarily yielding him a net gain in votes. This is the background under which we should understand supporters who are choosing to 'tell the truth' about Luntz.

wildflower
01-11-2008, 06:12 PM
You confront people with your ideas, not with insults or even things that can be taken as subtle threats of violence. Your tactics are counterproductive and will win no supporters.

Thank you for being a voice of reason. I totally agree.

People - the point is not whether or not Frank, Hannity, or others like them deserve it. Two wrongs don't make a right. The point is, when you go overboard in your actions out of hate for these guys, you make a bad situation WORSE, it scares off potential supporters, it reflects badly on the entire campaign, and it's counterproductive.

Remember: BLOWBACK!

There is nothing wrong with PEACEFUL demonstrations and peaceful civil disobedience. We should take the cue from MLK Jr., and others who were able to get their message across without being hateful, rude or violent.


Don't give the opposition ammunition to use against us! Use your noodle!

parke
01-11-2008, 06:23 PM
I wrote:
From: Robert Werden
To: Frank I. Luntz
Sent: Fri Jan 11 11:53:48 2008
Subject: Your electronic meter

Why does the electronic meter go down before Ron Paul starts speaking Frank?

"Fuck you Frank"
Penn and Teller

[edit/forum guidelines]


He Responded:

From: Frank I. Luntz
Date: 1/11/2008 11:57:19 AM
Subject: Re: Your electronic meter


Because rank and file republicans dont like him at all.

I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says, and i think he's a great congressman. Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.

Sent from my blackberry.



I responded back and said if he likes Ron Paul, then do a youtube endorsement. I told him I would even pay him for his time to do it. Paying for endorsements is common and probably the only way the other guys get endorsements.

If he says he will, we should pay him just to throw it in FOX's face.

Here is his reply"

I worked for rudy -- yet he hasnt won a single focus group. It's not my fault rudy doesnt perform well. It's his.

I have received four threatening emails since last night from ron paul's people. That is what i will probably talk about tonight. You people scare me -- and you're destroying the viability and credibility of your candidate by the way you all behave.

Sent from my blackberry.


My reply:
Doing that will get people even angrier at you. You just don't get it. You are the megaphone for the debates. You know as a pollster you can influence the election. That is a dangerous position to be in when you hurt the chances of a candidate. For once we have someone running who is not establishment and FOX puts out smears left and right to destroy his chances. The Ron Paul supporters got mad after you smeared him not before. Why do you think they boycott you and FOX?

You see it as an attack on you, when in reality it is a retaliation. The fact is Ron Paul supporters are so devoted they will never stop. The more you push them the more you will get retaliation. As a pollster you are stepping over the bounds of your duties. People will always revolt to those actions.

I know you are paid to smear Paul and you are entitled to earn a living. Even Bill O' admitted its all an act, you should admit you are being paid to say what you say, and the people may see it for what it is, which is ratings.


You are taking things on a higher road than I. If I saw him or Hannity on the street, either one would have me following them around calling them an asshole in front of as many people as possible.

We have let FOX get away with to much.. Its time for FOX to be exposed and boycotted forever.

Let em sell news to commies.. they love big brother so much they will fit in fine.

Id like to get this clear.. FCUK FOX. They can take FOX back to the Aussies.

PatriotG
01-11-2008, 06:24 PM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.

Sound advice

And

Regardless frank is a stooge

wsc321
01-11-2008, 06:25 PM
Thank you for being a voice of reason. I totally agree.

People - the point is not whether or not Frank, Hannity, or others like them deserve it. Two wrongs don't make a right. The point is, when you go overboard in your actions out of hate for these guys, you make a bad situation WORSE, it scares off potential supporters, it reflects badly on the entire campaign, and it's counterproductive.

Remember: BLOWBACK!

There is nothing wrong with PEACEFUL demonstrations and peaceful civil disobedience. We should take the cue from MLK Jr., and others who were able to get their message across without being hateful, rude or violent.


Don't give the opposition ammunition to use against us! Use your noodle!

I'm glad this topic is still being discussed. Why not just adopt a grassroots rule of thumb: we lift UP Ron Paul's message, and never put DOWN anyone.

I say personal attacks (e.g. Luntz, Hannity) - no matter how mild they may seem - will always hurt the campaign and are always out of line.

I empathize with RP supporter's frustrations, of course, and I have no problem believing, as noted by Peace&Freedom, that FNC may deliberately want to push us into an agitated state and then hypocritically point at it as a reason for disliking Dr. Paul... but, if we'd just establish in our hearts and minds - in advance - that we won't "personally attack", then such tactics would never work against us (and, perhaps, ultimately backfire).

There's nothing wrong with saying, "I think FNC is a disgrace to newscasting" or "I think Hannity is misleading and unfair", so long as after saying such a thing you could immediately sit down and have a cup of coffee with Hannity harboring no personal offense at him.

I wish the grassroots could take a "zero personal attacks" pledge... it would serve us mightily.

davidhperry
01-11-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm glad this topic is still being discussed. Why not just adopt a grassroots rule of thumb: we lift UP Ron Paul's message, and never put DOWN anyone.

I say personal attacks (e.g. Luntz, Hannity) - no matter how mild they may seem - will always hurt the campaign and are always out of line.

I empathize with RP supporter's frustrations, of course, and I have no problem believing, as noted by Peace&Freedom, that FNC may deliberately want to push us into an agitated state and then hypocritically point at it as a reason for disliking Dr. Paul... but, if we'd just establish in our hearts and minds - in advance - that we won't "personally attack", then such tactics would never work against us (and, perhaps, ultimately backfire).

There's nothing wrong with saying, "I think FNC is a disgrace to newscasting" or "I think Hannity is misleading and unfair", so long as after saying such a thing you could immediately sit down and have a cup of coffee with Hannity harboring no personal offense at him.

I wish the grassroots could take a "zero personal attacks" pledge... it would serve us mightily.

QFT (WWRPD?)

davidhperry
01-11-2008, 06:35 PM
You are taking things on a higher road than I. If I saw him or Hannity on the street, either one would have me following them around calling them an asshole in front of as many people as possible.


Frank is a tool - but what positive benefit would come of this? Are you trying to convert him to be a RP supporter? I realize that shouting at him might make you feel better personally but can you explain how this would help the campaign?

RickyJ
01-11-2008, 06:36 PM
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I think FNC is a disgrace to newscasting" or "I think Hannity is misleading and unfair", so long as after saying such a thing you could immediately sit down and have a cup of coffee with Hannity harboring no personal offense at him.

What? You better believe this is personal! NO coffee break with traitors dude! Got it?

This is a revolution, not a play!

constitutional
01-11-2008, 06:38 PM
Frank is a tool - but what positive benefit would come of this? Are you trying to convert him to be a RP supporter? I realize that shouting at him might make you feel better personally but can you explain how this would help the campaign?

Lets say If I had support another candidate, Clinton.

I'd still say FU frank.

I don't know about you but I don't go around adding campaign's name to everything I would not say: "FU FRANK, RON PAUL REVOLUTION!" I'd just say "F2CK YOU FRANK, STOP RUINING MY COUNTRY!"

DAFTEK
01-11-2008, 06:39 PM
FUK YOU FRANK, I got me a dozen eggs for all them fox fuks! No more nice guy. i think we wore too nice and we got fuked too long by that shity corrupt news empire

Catatonic
01-11-2008, 06:42 PM
You guys ninnying and whining about being nice to these lizards being passed off as pundits and pollsters either havn't been around for their back stabbing or have a short memory.

I'll never forgive fox and others for the uphill battle we had to go through just to get enough momentum to not flounder and sink before the first primary was even held.

You'll get NOTHING from treating them like equals or simply philosophical opponents. These guys will put on a big grin, extend their hand in friendship, and as soon as you take it you'll have their fangs in your neck, hoping you can get them off before they drain you dry.

Hannity had the audacity to think he gets to decide who the nominee is for the American people. Giuliani was the golden child of Fox News and Hannity specifically, it wasn't until Ron Paul came along and started disrupting everything that you saw Thompson and then Huckabee come crawling out of the woodwork once Giuliani got exposed and everyone figured out that McCain is an idiot.

Now you want to pander to these treasenous slime to try to play nice? At this point? You'll NEVER get their cooperation, ever. We are looking to put their bosses out of business. Convert people, yourself. Get all your family, all your friends on board. Once thats done, get them to do the same. Canvassing, sign waving, all the grass roots stuff is nice, but its not as powerful as word of mouth to people you know. Start with your base, and get them motivated to do the same, and watch the effect grow exponentially. Thats my take, anyway, do whatever you feel is most affective.

Trying to play nice with Hannity and his goblin Luntz is a waste of time.

Sandy
01-11-2008, 06:48 PM
Nice to hear the Frank is scared. Maybe that fear will help focus his mind on being more fair.

Really, give me a break. He didn't sound scared. He said he was going to be doing a story based on the emails, etc. Real scared. :rolleyes:

He works for Fox, and the networks are purposely trying to influence the election towards certain candidates. They are purposely trying to influence the not strong of mind to not vote for RP. Frank is making excuses, even though he probably really does like RP. He is gettting PAID to try and influence people away from RP, and it has nothing to do with some overzealous supporters who cuss at him or try and intimidate him. However, those emails give him and Fox ammunition.

Stop sending him emails with cussing or immature rants, it has no effect except a negative one. If Frank didn't do what Fox has planned, they would replace him. Does anyone get that? We would just have the next guy in there. Frank must like his job more than he cares about the future of the entire country, that's the only thing I can come up with when it comes to most people in mainstream media (that know they are being used to influence elections and know they are using propaganda on a daily basis).

Sandy
01-11-2008, 06:54 PM
You guys ninnying and whining about being nice to these lizards being passed off as pundits and pollsters either havn't been around for their back stabbing or have a short memory.

I'll never forgive fox and others for the uphill battle we had to go through just to get enough momentum to not flounder and sink before the first primary was even held.

You'll get NOTHING from treating them like equals or simply philosophical opponents. These guys will put on a big grin, extend their hand in friendship, and as soon as you take it you'll have their fangs in your neck, hoping you can get them off before they drain you dry.

Hannity had the audacity to think he gets to decide who the nominee is for the American people. Giuliani was the golden child of Fox News and Hannity specifically, it wasn't until Ron Paul came along and started disrupting everything that you saw Thompson and then Huckabee come crawling out of the woodwork once Giuliani got exposed and everyone figured out that McCain is an idiot.

Now you want to pander to these treasenous slime to try to play nice? At this point? You'll NEVER get their cooperation, ever. We are looking to put their bosses out of business. Convert people, yourself. Get all your family, all your friends on board. Once thats done, get them to do the same. Canvassing, sign waving, all the grass roots stuff is nice, but its not as powerful as word of mouth to people you know. Start with your base, and get them motivated to do the same, and watch the effect grow exponentially. Thats my take, anyway, do whatever you feel is most affective.

Trying to play nice with Hannity and his goblin Luntz is a waste of time.

Yes, this is the ticket, because Fox ain't going to stop with their crapola. Trying to be mean to Hannity/Frank isn't going to do anything either, another waste. I keep saying this over and over, but ALL THE NETWORKS are the problem. There is a concerted effort to influence away from RP, it's NOT just Fox.

osofaux
01-11-2008, 07:23 PM
In order to be successful, this movement has to circumvent the media.

That means acknowledging that for everyone the movement reaches, the media will have reached them first, and will have delivered their message first. Once a seed of negative association with Ron Paul is planted in their minds, it will take root and become much more difficult to replace with a positive one.

So, the movement has to work twice as hard, and be twice as smart.

When anyone in this movement threatens anyone in the media, it legitimates the negative message they plant in the very people we are trying to reach, making the more reasonable of us work fifty times as hard and look incalculably stupid.

Andrew-Austin
01-11-2008, 07:29 PM
What? You better believe this is personal! NO coffee break with traitors dude! Got it?

This is a revolution, not a play!

*face palm

Act as if it is personal, but don't openly talk as if this was personal. Thats what they are doing, thats the smart way of being offensive.

If you email someone at Fox, calling them out on what they did with Paul, they will just label you nuts. Whining to an international company about their own crimes, is kinda pointless. They don't give a fuck, your rhetorical fervor and emotion doesn't reach them.



When anyone in this movement threatens anyone in the media, it legitimates the negative message they plant in the very people we are trying to reach, making the more reasonable of us work fifty times as hard and look incalculably stupid.

Exactly. A lot of people are eager to go on the offensive in Paul's stead, but they don't take any time to think whats the most effective way of being offensive. Slinging around harsh threatening messages to the media, if anything, hurts us.


You guys ninnying and whining about being nice to these lizards being passed off as pundits and pollsters either havn't been around for their back stabbing or have a short memory.

I'll never forgive fox and others for the uphill battle we had to go through just to get enough momentum to not flounder and sink before the first primary was even held.

You'll get NOTHING from treating them like equals or simply philosophical opponents. These guys will put on a big grin, extend their hand in friendship, and as soon as you take it you'll have their fangs in your neck, hoping you can get them off before they drain you dry.

Read the bolded part of my post fives times over, so you clearly understand it.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
01-11-2008, 07:29 PM
because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks.

They're going to do that, anyway. He's the only person with any real support, so they have to attack that support as illegitimate somehow.

What do governments do to discredit truthtellers? They try to pain them as crazy, socially. Look at those who have claimed to see UFOs... in may cases they were probably military sightings. How were those people treated?

Paul supporters could be model citizens, and they'd be called kooks anyway. Plants aren't out of the question, either. He's trying to upset a very large apple cart here.

Soccrmastr
01-11-2008, 07:32 PM
well he's acknowledged us eh!

Pharoah
01-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Luntz has no moral code whatsoever; but don't believe me - listen to his own words as cited in the 2004 article "Luntz on the Loose". http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Oct04/Berkowitz1026.htm



On September 2, the St. Paul Pioneer Press reported: "Earlier this year, GOP pollster Frank Luntz advised Republicans to never talk about Iraq or homeland security without first mentioning how '9/11 changed everything.'"

^^ So that's where Ghouliani was born...


In addition, a June 2004 memo by Luntz titled "Communicating The Principles Of Prevention & Protection In The War On Terror" coached Republicans on how to connect the Iraq war with the war on terror, including concepts like "It is better to fight the War on Terror on the streets of Baghdad than on the streets of New York or Washington"

^^ ...and that's where the Neo-cons got their script...



In 2002, Luntz wrote a similar memo for Republicans advising them "how to discuss environmental issues," MMFA reported. "This memo was particularly memorable for the advice Luntz offered on how to deal with the emerging scientific consensus that global warming is a real phenomenon with potentially dangerous consequences. Luntz advised Republicans to exploit the last 'window of opportunity' for Republicans to argue that the science of global warming is uncertain. He wrote: 'The scientific debate is closing [against us] but not yet closed. There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science.'"

...a memorandum prepared by the Luntz Research Companies. Luntz's memo wasn't aimed at re-ordering the administration's environmental priorities; it was intended to change the public's perception of that record. Luntz warned that "the environment is probably the single issue on which Republicans in general -- and President Bush in particular -- are most vulnerable."

The memo suggested administration officials moderate their language: For example, instead of using the term "global warming," the memo advised substituting "climate change" because "while global warming has catastrophic communications attached to it, climate change sounds a more controllable and less emotional challenge"; and it suggested substituting "conservationist" for "environmentalist" because the latter had the "connotation of extremism."

^^ So that's where "climate change" came from... I always wondered why the MSM suddenly shifted to that term instead of "global warming." It seems Luntz has been a busy little spinner.

Andrew-Austin
01-11-2008, 07:49 PM
Act as if it is personal, but don't openly talk as if this was personal. Thats what they are doing, thats the smart way of being offensive.

If you email someone at Fox, calling them out on what they did with Paul, they will just label you nuts. Whining to an international company about their own crimes, is kinda pointless. They don't give a fuck, your rhetoric and emotion doesn't reach them.



When anyone in this movement threatens anyone in the media, it legitimates the negative message they plant in the very people we are trying to reach, making the more reasonable of us work fifty times as hard and look incalculably stupid.

Exactly. A lot of people are eager to go on the offensive in Paul's stead, but they don't take any time to think whats the most effective way of being offensive. Slinging around harsh threatening messages to the media, if anything, hurts us.

If you want to get back at Fox, think of some other, more logical way of doing so.

So do you guys understand what I mean by this?

itshappening
01-11-2008, 08:01 PM
he's on now

itshappening
01-11-2008, 08:08 PM
didnt mention us, was selling McCain

flahavin
01-11-2008, 08:09 PM
Have we run out of people that we need military cadets to get the correct response for fix news?

Enzo
01-11-2008, 08:12 PM
You guys are all giving Frank Luntz WAAAAAAAAAAYYYY too much credit!

While I may have tried to be a little more civil, Frank Luntz is a dishonest, manipulative sack of shit.... that deserves no respect from anyone that takes human life seriously.

Malakai0
01-11-2008, 09:01 PM
The fact is that Luntz is just another joe getting paid to do his job.

Is it immoral? Sure. Is he one of the powers that be, nor does he have any say in what he reports? OF COURSE NOT.


However these guys need to understand the age old comment "the internet is serios business"

GodOfThunder
01-11-2008, 09:04 PM
I wrote:
From: Robert Werden
To: Frank I. Luntz
" and you're destroying the viability and credibility of your candidate by the way you all behave."

Frank,
You're destroying the viability and credibility of a national news source coverning an election.

Eat shit and die.

PaleoForPaul
01-11-2008, 10:58 PM
[B]I worked for rudy -- yet he hasnt won a single focus group. It's not my fault rudy doesnt perform well. It's his.

No, but the second best thing has happened for Rudy. Chaos. Romney, Huckabee and McCain have all won a primary.

Now, with South Carolina coming, Luntz the dunce is saying Thompson somehow won that debate. Of course a Thompson win would be the best thing for Rudy (next to a Rudy win) because it keeps things mixed up until Florida.

How is a PAID STAFFER for RUDY'S CAMPAIGN allowed to come on Fox news and act like an impartial statistician?

qh4dotcom
01-12-2008, 12:57 AM
What is Franks Email? No one here has posted it yet

Like Bill Gates, chances are that he only reads a small fraction of e-mails sent to him...spam filters and customer service delete the remaining unwanted ones.

Ron LOL
01-12-2008, 12:58 AM
I liked the part where the OP totally missed the very important point Luntz made about SUPPORTERS BEING JACKASSES.

BobTaft
01-12-2008, 01:11 AM
No fan of Luntz but that wasn't exactly a bad response. Maybe we should devote our energies to getting out the vote for Dr. Paul instead of wasting it on emails to and bitching about Luntz. Just a thought.

davidhperry
01-12-2008, 01:36 AM
No fan of Luntz but that wasn't exactly a bad response. Maybe we should devote our energies to getting out the vote for Dr. Paul instead of wasting it on emails to and bitching about Luntz. Just a thought.

What?!? No, that's way too rational a response. What are you doing bringing logic in here?

Naraku
01-12-2008, 01:40 AM
I sent in a little something myself:


I saw someone, a Robert Werden, say they got this in an e-mail from you (presuming this is Frank Luntz of the Fox News focus groups):

Because rank and file republicans dont like him at all.

I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says, and i think he's a great congressman. Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.

Sent from my blackberry.

First, is this actually what your response was? Second, if you said this, why shouldn't you acknowledge you agree with Paul? I can guarantee no one is going to think this reflects bias on your part since most I know think you're against Ron Paul. So what is the reason? Surely this is a free country and you can express support for someone in an honest and reasonable fashion, I know some of my fellow Paul supporters need to learn a bit about proper etiquette.

So what is the reason you feel you shouldn't acknowledge agreeing with his positions? Honestly, if rank and file Republicans really don't like him, it's because the media has tried to ignore him and sometimes blatantly attacked him as I witnessed in the Fox debate in South Carolina recently. However, I think most Americans and rank and file Republicans really do agree or would agree with his positions if they had a chance to hear them and truly understood them.

Also, don't let some of the overly passionate Paul supporters offend you, honestly, some of them scare me a little, but for every one that behaves like a rude and aggressive asshole there are about 100 more that are just good simple folk.

In fact, for the record, the person who put e-mailed you to warrant this response got a tongue-lashing from several Paul supporters for being so rude to you. I wish you well.

I'll post here if I get any response.

rwl4
01-12-2008, 02:13 AM
I think his practices are scum, and he's a complete spinmeister, but Frank is right. We are extremely rude and attack people in a way that Ron Paul would never do. You see Ron Paul on the stage being mocked, and instead of responding in kind, he waits for his moment, then completely destroys the arguments while not directly attacking them. Notice how he turned the "are you electable" question into a really POSITIVE answer that portrayed him for who he is, a strict-constitutionalist who wants liberty for all who doesn't agree with the current policies.

Dale Carnegie was right: A drop of honey catches more flies than a gallon of gall.

Reading assignment for every RP supporter: How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

RP is the master of this. We need to follow in his footsteps.

Marc3579
01-12-2008, 02:38 AM
I may not approve of Frank Luntz and his focus groups in any stretch of the imagination. But, if you're going to e-mail him. I'd suggest doing something more tactful than parroting Penn "Fuck You, Frank!" Honestly, do you think that's going to make him decide to say "Oh, this person thinks might makes right."

Think about Ron Paul's message to the country, who are his hero's? Non-violent disobedience activists, Martin Luther King, and Ghandi. Do you honestly think, that Ron Paul would be proud to know you, that while e-mailing Frank Luntz on his behalf was laden with that comment?

As has been said in here before, you'll get more bee's with honey than vinegar. But, you'll probably label me as a sheeple. Because, I disagree with your profane message to someone who as he states, he likes Ron Paul...But, his supporters scare him. Do you really think that saying "Fuck You" is really going to bring him to our side? Methinks you dropped the ball on this call.

kaleidoscope eyes
01-12-2008, 06:34 AM
+100

thought the exact same thing, shouldn't we be following Ron's example of how to behave toward this junk? And I certainly don't think his heroes would act like this either.

jeesh

nosebruise
01-12-2008, 06:54 AM
i agree that the OP could have used more tact. i wouldnt have dont the F U thing until at least he said something which warranted that as a response. (though if i saw him on the street i would yell "F U FRANK" at him, [unless i was holding a ron paul sign because i wouldnt want to associate that with ron... id only do it if it was a "random" encounter as it would be a personal thing, cause *i* think he's a fucker.])

and that making vague threats was in NO WAY called for and COMPLETELY DETRIMENTAL.






but on the flipside i dont believe a fucking WORD frank said in his response. he doesnt give a fuck about ron paul he was just trying to get some sympathy points. (anyone remember the "you guys are being mean" line from the video?) if he agreed with ron paul at all he would not be doing what he has been and continues to do. the only reason "rank and file" republicans wont vote for him, is cause with your calculated responses and other at fox have painted ron as someone they should not support. if ron got HALF the love any of those other candidates got, we wouldnt even have to be canvassing to get votes, they'd just ROLL in. and the reason you're getting a backlash is because of it, asshole. not that you dont already know this.

frank luntz is pathological. period.


fuck you, frank.

SeanEdwards
01-12-2008, 06:59 AM
And maybe if we threaten to kill some Iranians they'll like us more.

I don't care if they like us. I want them to fear and respect us.

nosebruise
01-12-2008, 07:04 AM
why fear?

isnt respect enough?

billyjoeallen
01-12-2008, 07:50 AM
The more powerful a movement is, the less popular it is at the beginning. We are radicals and that scares some people. In the civil rights movement, MLK got heat from the establishment for being an uppity negro, from the fringes for not being radical enough, and from people who didn't care and wondered what all the fuss was about.

There is a reason why this is the r3vo1ution. We have to love our enemies here and turn them into friends because we are way outnumbered. It worked for Ghandi. It worked for MLK and it is the only way we will prevail. We are angry and we have a right to be, but most of the
public cares more about peace than justice. It is not enough to be right. We have to be smart.

Americans fought off the mightiest empire on earth to win independence and we are right to be proud of that, but Ghandi accomplished the same thing in India without firing a shot! He got the idea of passive resistance from American writer Henry David Thoreau and his esay on Civil Disobedience.

We can win this because our mostly JudeoChristian nation shares our ideals and only lacks understanding of our platform. Frame it this way:
Golden-rule foreign policy
Free will domestic policy. That should resonate with the religious voters and disarm the neocons, but ONLY if we show them we practice what we preach.

Freedom Will win, but it is up to us to determine when. It will only happen when we learn to love our enemies as much as liberty.

SeanEdwards
01-12-2008, 07:57 AM
why fear?

isnt respect enough?

Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.

spiteface
01-12-2008, 08:25 AM
It's kinda funny listening to so many fellow supporters of the peace and liberty candidate talk about using fear and intimidation to keep the media in line.

Charles Wilson
01-12-2008, 08:30 AM
How can anybody take Frank and his so-called focus group serious? It reminds me of the "Gong" show. We all know that they are paid to say whatever Frank wants them to say, therefore they have no credibility at all. For the Fox network to associate with this kind of obsurd horse shit just goes to show how desperate they are in trying to raise their ratings. Their tabloid format has run its course -- people want real news. I stopped watching Fox a couple of years ago.

UCFGavin
01-12-2008, 08:56 AM
nobody takes frank seriously....but he is actually right. as much as we say its bullshit that people look at supporters as representatives for a candidate, it is true. we know how weak minded people are, and instead of playing up to that, we hurt ourselves.

noztnac
01-12-2008, 10:58 AM
What's his e-mail address?

wsc321
01-12-2008, 11:55 AM
What? You better believe this is personal! NO coffee break with traitors dude! Got it?

This is a revolution, not a play!

I understand your position, but don't assume that because I'm advocating a different approach that I care any less than you do.

Here's another way of looking at it: it's about disagreeing without hating. It's about not passing judgment on someone's heart, though being willing and able to judge their positions. There's a moral line of reasoning that says you or I are not qualified to pass judgment on Hannity, for example, unless and until we've had our own TV/Radio shows, reached the same level of popularity/success, having been subject to all the same temptations to shape (and maintain) our thought.

On a smaller level, of course, I think we accept the idea. Many of us have an acquaintance, friend or family member that didn't accept or believe in Ron Paul initially, but we didn't take it personally, kept on working on them, and eventually they came around.

I realize Hannity, as an example, might never come around (though I think it was obvious he was moderating his positions in the last Ron Paul radio interview, and trying to emphasize his points of agreement, rather than disagreement). I still believe in the principle, though, and I realize some of us fellow RP supporters may have to just agree to disagree. :)

nc4rp
01-12-2008, 04:34 PM
Franks right. thats the about same thing a boston globe columnist told me when he replied to my email, however i wasn't quite so blatently insulting to that fellow.


You shouldn't have written "fuck you" in the e-mail. Be more professional, people.

freedom-maniac
01-12-2008, 05:09 PM
I hate remarks like that. It's like the people who like Jesus but not Christians. Uh, if it wasn't for us loony supporters, Ron Paul would be dead in the dirt. It is because of us Luntz gets to hear his message!

I love Jesus, and I'm a Christian, but the majority of Bible-thumpers tick me off, because they blindly accept what their church leaders tell them, and are to stupid to open up a Bible and read it. If they did, they will find as I have, that most of what church groups put out in their propaganda phamplets is highly contradictory of actual scripture.

scholarpreneur
01-12-2008, 06:33 PM
Frank, God bless his corrupt soul, is right.

We have a moral obligation to rise above the bickering, threats and BS that permeates the political process in our country.

Some of you think when you react with insults and hate that you're "standing up for yourself." You equate using peace and understanding "being a pussy." But it actually takes more balls to turn the other cheek than to lash out at your oppressor. And it sends a more powerful message.

Gandhi was literally one of the most powerful people in India's history. He wielded tremendous power without ever laying a hand on anyone. He was never elected to any public position, yet he held the entire Indian government under his sway.

nosebruise
01-12-2008, 07:17 PM
Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.

what in the world are you talking about. your views are incredibly polar. there isn't a need for intimidation. if anything actively seeking for them to fear us will cause more animosity.

David805
01-12-2008, 07:56 PM
Well behaved citizens will never change the world.

A armed society is a polite society one.. (Who says "Armed" has to mean Weapons. Why not honesty and integrity)

Well behaved citizens are puppets and sheeple. (At least in the definition of Well behaved i use)

Def Well behaved = People who do not think for themselves

Marc3579
01-13-2008, 12:28 AM
Ummm.... Right, and parroting Penn will win over people right? As stated, being polar will only lead to more animosity toward the message of freedom. Well behaved people do think for themselves.

PC_for_Paul
01-13-2008, 12:37 AM
A armed society is a polite society one.. (Who says "Armed" has to mean Weapons. Why not honesty and integrity)

Well behaved citizens are puppets and sheeple. (At least in the definition of Well behaved i use)

Def Well behaved = People who do not think for themselves

Too Late, I think the term "fuck you frank" has already been coined into an act of civil disobedience.

if we can continue to raise the kind of money we have, it may end up that we are asking the GOP if they want to run with us in Nov, not weather we will run with them.

livinitup
01-13-2008, 01:39 AM
I think the Campaign should contact Penn and Teller and have them make a G rated version of the fuck you frank skit. Then run it as an official campaign commercial during the next debate. This would expose Frank for the snake in the grass that he is. Under federal law, a network can't refuse a candidate airtime for his commercials. Now I don't know what it would cost to get that airtime, but I think it would be worth every last dime.

Can anyone say FF MoneyBomb?

nosebruise
01-13-2008, 06:13 AM
Too Late, I think the term "fuck you frank" has already been coined into an act of civil disobedience.

if we can continue to raise the kind of money we have, it may end up that we are asking the GOP if they want to run with us in Nov, not weather we will run with them.

i have NO problems with "fuck you, frank" until its associated with ron paul by proxy of his supporters.

i will GLADLY yell "FUCK YOU" to frank luntz, but i'll never do it if im ever around anything that can remotely link me to ron paul, as it has nothing to do with ron, or his movement. it's solely my personal opinion and distaste for that POS, and I never want to reflect that opinion on ron because he would definitely disapprove and i dont want to tarnish his image. those are penn and teller's words, not ron's.




sadly i dont think i could yell that at him anymore anyway, because i get the feeling so many ron supporters have already done it, its already associated with ron supporters. :(

MAGICKAL
01-13-2008, 07:19 AM
No Luntz, it's people like you who are scary, you'd sell your soul for a dollar.

How does it feel to be part of the biggest war propaganda machine there is Frank?

Do the faces of the dead ever haunt you? Do you jump up from your sleep in a cold sweat?

You could change that Frank, you could do what is right.

John P Slevin
01-13-2008, 07:48 AM
No Luntz, it's people like you who are scary, you'd sell your soul for a dollar.

How does it feel to be part of the biggest war propaganda machine there is Frank?

Do the faces of the dead ever haunt you? Do you jump up from your sleep in a cold sweat?

You could change that Frank, you could do what is right.

If it's fun to poke at Frank, go ahead, have big fun. It neither hurts nor helps the cause, but everyone needs fun.

Cold sweats and bad dreams?

Conscience doesn't enter into it. It's about making a buck. Luntz doesn't go about his day consumed with thoughts about folks fighting and dying. He makes money, watches TV, eats and sleeps without a thought about the suffering his clients promote.

Not a whole lot different than so many Americans.

RonPaulblican
01-13-2008, 11:37 AM
I hate to say it, but I agree with him on this one. While we all agree he's a lying hack, publicly accosting him and making his life miserable do nothing to help Ron Paul; on the contrary, it hurts Dr. Paul's message, because now there's plenty of ammunition to paint RP supporters as kooks. Take a deep breath and think before you act, people.

I agree. You catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

RevolutionSD
01-13-2008, 12:24 PM
First of all I have to wonder what these so-called threats consist of.

Glenn Beck claims he had threats on his life and had to hire a swat team to protect him and his family.

Now Luntz claims threats.

Overwhelmingly, the RP supporters I have met have been polite and respectful. I'm sure there are a few bad apples among us, but I think these guys are misusing the term "threats".

"Fuck You Frank" is not a threat.
Telling someone they are an asshole is not a threat.

A threat is when you tell someone you are going to kill them, hurt them, or do something their loved ones.

I doubt Frank Luntz is experiencing threats from any legitimate Paul supporters. If he or Beck are seriously being threatened, why don't they produce these emails or voicemails?

It's absurd, and the Fuck You Frank slogan is 100% appropriate here.

ChowDog
01-13-2008, 01:32 PM
i have NO problems with "fuck you, frank" until its associated with ron paul by proxy of his supporters.

i will GLADLY yell "FUCK YOU" to frank luntz, but i'll never do it if im ever around anything that can remotely link me to ron paul, as it has nothing to do with ron, or his movement. it's solely my personal opinion and distaste for that POS, and I never want to reflect that opinion on ron because he would definitely disapprove and i dont want to tarnish his image. those are penn and teller's words, not ron's.




sadly i dont think i could yell that at him anymore anyway, because i get the feeling so many ron supporters have already done it, its already associated with ron supporters. :(

Amen. People, like myself, are angered over others in this race, but simply telling someone "fuck you" is just childish and stupid in MHO.

It's negative to Dr. Paul's cause and doesn't help anything.

I sure wish most on this board, which I joined because I am VERY passionate about the cause and his being elected, would just stop this stupid bashing and get on with ideas to help his election.

acroso
01-13-2008, 03:43 PM
I just sent him a FU Frank lolol

ddoggphx
01-13-2008, 03:53 PM
I think it is smarter to go this route; I sent him this the other day. Maybe it's just me.


Hi Frank,

I saw online where someone said they emailed you and you responded and said that you like Paul, but think his supporters are rude and abrasive.

I just want to remind you that not all of us are. I'm a 34 year old Republican in AZ, and my wife is 30 and republican. Both of us are voting for Paul. We are both moderate Republicans, and I lean very libertarian on many issues. Both of us are very fiscally conservative. We feel that Paul is the only real conservative in the race and are voting for him and have donated to his campaign.

It is unfortunate that so many of his supporters can't conduct themselves in public with any dignity and are rude and obnoxious. Chasing down Sean Hannity with snowballs, while good for a laugh, isn't really good behavior to model and only paints a bad picture for the rest of us...(though Hannity and his ire for Paul himself is a big turnoff, and has lost him fans as well...my wife for one).

Not all of us are like the ones who confront you, yell FU Frank like Penn & Teller advised, or act ridiculous. A great, great many of us are fiscal conservative, small-government minded individuals who see a candidate with great ideals and message. Please don't lump us all together. Please don't color Dr. Paul by his supporters.

It is quite upsetting to see people who know the two of us support Dr. Paul try wondering if we are some crazy zealots because of the high profile actions of a group of his supporters. I think some of his supporters do more harm than good.

My only request is that if you happen to mention the crazies on air, to please remember people like my wife and me and try to make it clear that it isn't even a vast majority of Paul supporters going over the line...and that there are several highly intelligent conservative voters out there who understand and agree with Dr. Paul's message.

Thanks for listening

Sesshomaru
01-13-2008, 05:01 PM
Whats his email?

I think we should contact him with messages like ddogphx. If he sees the stream of moderation, then perhaps he can change his opinion.

The fact of the matter is that we really have to turn another cheek when corresponding with these people. Jesus and Dr. King both showed the power of this. Its fine to vent here, but in the public sphere we need to show our rational and creative strength.

Remember, even people who are not deep in the movement are seeing how badly fox is treating Paul. We need to take the high ground and work on spreading the word and the movement rather than fighting at the sidelines.

Ara825
01-13-2008, 06:46 PM
FUK YOU FRANK, I got me a dozen eggs for all them fox fuks! No more nice guy. i think we wore too nice and we got fuked too long by that shity corrupt news empire
Bad idea, it would be assult, you would be arrested, you would go to jail, you would be tased bro!

Ara825
01-13-2008, 06:58 PM
A armed society is a polite society one.. (Who says "Armed" has to mean Weapons. Why not honesty and integrity)

I believe that the greatest weapon available to anyone is knowledge.

Victor
01-13-2008, 07:03 PM
Send him this video...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=159053218219104169&hl=en

That should open Luntz's eyes. And remember always be polite!

painter4Ron Paul
01-13-2008, 08:14 PM
okey dokkey

Sesshomaru
01-14-2008, 01:18 AM
I sent the following email based off what someone else wrote here:


Dear Frank,

I saw online where someone said they emailed you and you responded and said that you like Dr. Ron Paul, but think his supporters are rude and abrasive.

I just want to remind you that not all of us are. I'm a 26 year old Republican grad student in MD . Im voting for Paul because Im getting my PhD in Economics and its refreshing to see a candidate who actually proposes what I (and others) research. As an economist, I am very
fiscally conservative and realize the gross accounting and economic ramifications that our current government is taking. I feel that Paul is the only real conservative and understands the economic future of this country. As such, I have donated to his campaign and grassroots organizations and will vote for him.

It is unfortunate that so many of his supporters can't conduct themselves in public with any dignity and are rude and obnoxious. I have criticized fellow supporters for chasing down Sean Hannity with snowballs, because it only paints a bad picture for the rest of us.

Not all of us are like the ones who confront you, yell FU Frank like Penn & Teller advised, or act ridiculous. A great, great many of us are fiscal conservative, small-government minded individuals who see a
candidate with great ideals and message. Please don't lump us all together. Please don't color Dr. Paul by his supporters because its the message that is important.

It is quite upsetting to see people who know the two of us support Dr. Paul try wondering if we are some crazy zealots because of the high profile actions of a group of his supporters. I think some of his supporters do more harm than good.

Whether you agree with Paul's views is your business, but my only request is that if you happen to mention the crazies on air, to please remember people like me try to make it clear that it isn't even a vast majority of Paul supporters going over the line...and that there are
several highly intelligent conservative voters out there who understand and agree with Dr. Paul's message.

Thanks for listening

And few minutes later I got the following response:


Hang in there. That was a very nice email.
Sent from my blackberry.

Guys I really think this is one of those moments where you can 'kill them with kindness.' If he gets a lot of positive emails, he might not be so abrasive to RP due to RP supporters taking a higher ground.

ddoggphx
01-14-2008, 10:26 AM
I sent the following email based off what someone else wrote here:



And few minutes later I got the following response:



Guys I really think this is one of those moments where you can 'kill them with kindness.' If he gets a lot of positive emails, he might not be so abrasive to RP due to RP supporters taking a higher ground.

You owe me a nickel.

:D

Sesshomaru
01-14-2008, 11:58 AM
You owe me a nickel.

:D

Ill donate it to the chip-in of your choice :)

WATYF
01-14-2008, 01:35 PM
I wrote:
From: Robert Werden
To: Frank I. Luntz
Sent: Fri Jan 11 11:53:48 2008
Subject: Your electronic meter

Why does the electronic meter go down before Ron Paul starts speaking Frank?

"Fuck you Frank"
Penn and Teller

[edit/forum guidelines]


He Responded:

From: Frank I. Luntz
Date: 1/11/2008 11:57:19 AM
Subject: Re: Your electronic meter


Because rank and file republicans dont like him at all.

I shouldnt acknowledge this, but i agree with a lot of what paul says, and i think he's a great congressman. Its his supporters i dont like. They have been rude and abusive.

Sent from my blackberry.



I responded back and said if he likes Ron Paul, then do a youtube endorsement. I told him I would even pay him for his time to do it. Paying for endorsements is common and probably the only way the other guys get endorsements.

If he says he will, we should pay him just to throw it in FOX's face.

Here is his reply"

I worked for rudy -- yet he hasnt won a single focus group. It's not my fault rudy doesnt perform well. It's his.

I have received four threatening emails since last night from ron paul's people. That is what i will probably talk about tonight. You people scare me -- and you're destroying the viability and credibility of your candidate by the way you all behave.

Sent from my blackberry.


My reply:
Doing that will get people even angrier at you. You just don't get it. You are the megaphone for the debates. You know as a pollster you can influence the election. That is a dangerous position to be in when you hurt the chances of a candidate. For once we have someone running who is not establishment and FOX puts out smears left and right to destroy his chances. The Ron Paul supporters got mad after you smeared him not before. Why do you think they boycott you and FOX?

You see it as an attack on you, when in reality it is a retaliation. The fact is Ron Paul supporters are so devoted they will never stop. The more you push them the more you will get retaliation. As a pollster you are stepping over the bounds of your duties. People will always revolt to those actions.

I know you are paid to smear Paul and you are entitled to earn a living. Even Bill O' admitted its all an act, you should admit you are being paid to say what you say, and the people may see it for what it is, which is ratings.

I'm going to have to (regretfully) agree with Frank on this one.

Angry, hateful, and childish (i.e. "F##K YOU FRANK") RP supporters are a detriment to the cause. They only help RP lose potential voters, by giving his opponents so much ammunition and by associating RP with unstable individuals.

It does not matter how much of a liar or an asshole Luntz is... if your actions cause RP to lose votes, you only have yourself to blame. You should be in this to win it... not in it to angrily shove your inflated opinion in the faces of people who don't agree with you.


WATYF

therealjjj77
01-14-2008, 03:46 PM
It is far too easy to respond in anger when someone attacks your candidate. It is far too easy to send a hateful e-mail or make an angry phone call.

But one thing we must all remember is that these are people. Real people who have feelings and who are influenced by the world around them. They are not the enemy. They may have done something that harmed our efforts to restore our country, intentional or unintentional. But they are still people.

If you want these people to change their ideas about Ron Paul and about the grassroots, be kind. Return good for their evil. Speak to them positively and with kindness and understanding. Give people the benefit of the doubt that it was unintentional. And be willing to forgive those who intentionally did something to harm the campaign.

I remember when I was in sales and I would come across some very angry people who just hated salespeople. But I killed them with kindness and got them sharing their interests and related to them on their level. Then their attitude changed toward me.

A negative e-mail or phone call may feel good. But it hurts the campaign. It hurts our country. Keep in mind that these are people you are dealing with, and treat them with respect and care. So they are sell-outs, who cares? Maybe if you present the grassroots in a positive light, just maybe their conscience will get to them and they will help Ron Paul out.

therealjjj77
01-14-2008, 04:14 PM
Thank you.
That's a nice email.

Sent from my blackberry.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Johnson
To: Frank I. Luntz
Sent: Mon Jan 14 16:13:23 2008
Subject: Hello!

Hi Frank,

This is Jeremiah Johnson and I'm a Ron Paul supporter. First, just
want to say, respect. I know there are some very outspoken supporters who
represent the Ron Paul grassroots in a negative light and I apologize
for that. We do our best to try and discourage any negative behaviour
and actions, yet, like with any box of tomatoes, your bound to have
some rotten ones. And they certainly do cause more problems then they are
worth. However, for every negative supporter, I assure you, there are
thousands who are not negative and who are working hard to bring
forward these ideas to the public eye. The positive ones are far too busy
reaching people and communicating ideas to approach those who have
presented obstacles for this campaign. So that is probably why you haven't
heard as much from those who do respect where you stand.

You've probably heard this before but I just wanted to remind you of
our national debt of 9 trillion dollars and 52 trillion dollars of future
liabilities to social security. That is over 530k per household(not
including state, city, or personal debt). We really do need this trend
changed if America is to be America any longer. I hope you can set
aside the few sour apples you have run into and help us turn this nation
around. We need your help, Frank.

I just want to also say, great job on your book, "Words That Work". As
a business owner and having worked in sales, I understand the
difficulties most have in effectively communicating and how people's words too
often do not effectively communicate the ideas they have.

Jeremiah Johnson

Mckarnin
01-14-2008, 05:19 PM
What is Frank's email?