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View Full Version : Should Ron Paul have spoken more harshly against Israel?




Sergeant Brother
01-11-2008, 11:36 AM
When Ron Paul discussed Israel last night, his answer seemed a bit wishy washy, like it didn't completely make sense. He acted as though the US giving Israel money is hurting Israel and that in order to help Israel we should cut them off. This obviously isn't the case, of course Israel wants our money and our protection so they can continue with their belligerent militarism with impunity and so we can fight on their behalf.

Paul should have said how much harm that our support for Israel has caused us. He should have said that we're not under any obligation to give Israel any money. He should have said that Israel is no more an ally to America than a cancerous tumor or tapeworm is a person's ally. He should perhaps even question the patriotism of anybody who would be willing to sacrifice American lives on behalf of a foreign power. With all the courage and straight talk that Ron Paul shows on other issues, why the reluctance to speak honestly about Israel - when Israel supporting special interests already hate him?

Paulitician
01-11-2008, 11:40 AM
There is something special about Israel though. If you don't support Israel, you're "unAmerican"...

Anyway, Ron was just trying to spin his answer in a way to make it seem he is in favor of Israel. I think he sincerely believes what he believes, but unlike the rest of the neo-cons and other misguided folk, doesn't see anything special about Israel. He doesn't see anything special about any country, except the US, because "we should be friends with all of them."

SeanEdwards
01-11-2008, 11:41 AM
I think Ron's answer was fantastic. Treat them like adults and respect their sovereignty. Stop giving them money, and stop giving their enemies money.

Not everybody rabidly hates Israel. Personally, I'd be quite content to see Israel extend from the med to the Indian ocean. As long as it didn't involve the U.S. Let's get out of the way and let those crazy yids and crazy camel jockeys slaughter each other. I'll make the popcorn.

Truth Warrior
01-11-2008, 11:45 AM
Any criticism of Israel would instantly call down the wrath of the ADL calling Ron anti-semitic. That's all that we need now. :rolleyes:

phrizek
01-11-2008, 11:48 AM
Not everybody rabidly hates Israel. Personally, I'd be quite content to see Israel extend from the med to the Indian ocean. As long as it didn't involve the U.S. Let's get out of the way and let those crazy yids and crazy camel jockeys slaughter each other. I'll make the popcorn.

That's a pretty disgusting statement and I don't think it is in line with Dr. Paul's philosophy of peace. Please think about the things you say.

McLovin
01-11-2008, 11:48 AM
Ron's answer was PERFECT. There is no way it can be slanted as anti semetic which is what they were hoping for. If his mouth ever catches up with his brain he will be President.

ItsTime
01-11-2008, 11:49 AM
He has nothing against Israel why would he speak harshly of it?

Talldude1412
01-11-2008, 12:02 PM
What? Just because you have something against Israel doesn't mean that Ron Paul should. His answer was perfect, and it really laid out a strong basis for his non-interventionist policy. Once again, Ron Paul doesn't believe everything his supporters do, but he will speak his mind.

RonPaulFTFW
01-11-2008, 12:06 PM
No, he was Ron Paul. Reasonable, thoughtful, and logical.

Israel isn't evil. Just like America isn't evil.

The people who make policy and attack/start wars for both countries are evil however.

His comments were perfect and he got a lot of cheers for it.

SteveMartin
01-11-2008, 12:10 PM
His answer, as usual, was perfectly logical. It IS true that we do more harm to Israel than good. We give the Arab nations surrounding her 3 TIMES THE AIDE, which they then use (in part) to buy weapons. I think most people like the idea we should take care of our own for a change. Israel does not need our "help." She has 200-300 very sophisticated and nasty little reasons why no one in their right mind would attack them buried under the sands of the Negev.

Join The Paul Side
01-11-2008, 12:17 PM
Why should he be more harsh on Israel? He answered it just perfectly.

Ron Paul has even said himself that Israel doesn't need us militarily. They have enough firepower to turn the entire MiddleEast into a parking lot. They can handle themselves just fine in that aspect.

What's the point in backing Israel if you give their enemies 3 times more money than you give Israel and arm them with weapons they use against Israel? Why do this if you unless you are intentionally trying to cause unstability in the region? Don't you realize how hypocritical that makes us look?

This is why I wanted to jump through my TV and bitch slap Mike Fuckabee last night. :mad:

SeanEdwards
01-11-2008, 12:26 PM
That's a pretty disgusting statement and I don't think it is in line with Dr. Paul's philosophy of peace. Please think about the things you say.

What's disgusting about it? I couldn't possibly care less if those nuts kill each other. I just don't want myself, or my country to be sucked into it.

If you want to fight over that mess, be my guest. Plenty of flights to the region every day. Choose a side and get on over there. Yeehaawww!

vegetarianrpfan
01-11-2008, 12:34 PM
What's disgusting about it? I couldn't possibly care less if those nuts kill each other. I just don't want myself, or my country to be sucked into it.

If you want to fight over that mess, be my guest. Plenty of flights to the region every day. Choose a side and get on over there. Yeehaawww!

Well, some people have empathy for all sorts of people involved in that situation, including the many innocent people involved in a war their government starts. Calling them names as the ones you said and not caring if they kill each other are not in line with Dr. Paul's philosophies. You are certainly free to think whatever you want though!

-----------------------------
Libertarian Girl
http://www.libertariangirl.com

Mopsus
01-11-2008, 12:47 PM
Dr. Paul answered that question regarding the US support of Israel safely, yet brilliantly.

If you doubt me, research the 1948 bombing of the British King David Hotel which killed scores of Birts. Please research the Israeli bombing and torpedoing of the US naval vessel, USS Liberty in 1967 (with weapons we sold them) b/c the Liberty was reporting Israeli attacks prior to the Six Day War (ironic HUH.) Inform yourself. Israel only cares about Israel. Who are we kidding?

Inform yourself America. Terrorists have learned that suicide and terrorist bombing attacks have been effective since they have seen the Jewish model work to drive out the biggest imperialist model of the day--the British. If it works, do it. Huh?

Let's quit funding all of these folks-- both Arab and Israeli.

Carole
01-11-2008, 12:57 PM
You need to go back and read his statements on Israel and other countries.

What you suggest does not fit with Dr. Paul's philosophy.

SeanEdwards
01-11-2008, 01:26 PM
Well, some people have empathy for all sorts of people involved in that situation, including the many innocent people involved in a war their government starts. Calling them names as the ones you said and not caring if they kill each other are not in line with Dr. Paul's philosophies. You are certainly free to think whatever you want though!

-----------------------------
Libertarian Girl
http://www.libertariangirl.com

Yeah, I used derogatory racist names for those freaks, but at least I insulted everybody! I'm an equal opportunity hater. :D

Flash
01-11-2008, 02:03 PM
We should treat Isreal like anyother nation, this means we shouldn'shouldn't criticize it unjustly. Semitic people will be fighting wars with each other for a loong time.

sharedvoice
01-11-2008, 02:28 PM
I think his response about Israel was 100% right. No more needed to be said. People get the picture.

disciple
01-11-2008, 02:47 PM
No, he will be crucified by the Israeli Lobby.

Dieseler
01-11-2008, 02:49 PM
Dr. Paul is already facing a vertical wall of an uphill battle in regards to Israel by saying that he would end funding Israels Zionist interest.

Israel has a death grip on our government. Through dual citizenship they have intertwined themselves throughout our Government establishment and sway our
foreign policy almost exclusively in their favor.

Israel may well be the capital of the United States behind closed doors and
Ron Paul is essentially their number one enemy and greatest fear at this time.
If he were elected that house of cards would be revealed and it would collapse from within.
There is to much truth in Dr. Paul.
Dr. Paul's safety is my greatest fear because of this.

disciple
01-11-2008, 02:52 PM
Dr. Paul is already facing a vertical wall of an uphill battle in regards to Israel by saying that he would end funding Israels Zionist interest.

Israel has a death grip on our government. Through dual citizenship they have intertwined themselves throughout our Government establishment and sway our
foreign policy almost exclusively in their favor.

Israel may well be the capital of the United States behind closed doors and
Ron Paul is essentially their number one enemy and greatest fear at this time.
If he were elected that house of cards would be revealed and it would collapse from within.
There is to much truth in Dr. Paul.
Dr. Paul's safety is my greatest fear because of this.

That's the truth. Always keep an eye for Dr. Paul.

Caravello
01-11-2008, 03:21 PM
pubs say how Israel is our only ally in the mid east and the only democracy.

What about Iraq? I thought they were dancing in the streets, celebrating New Years, etc etc.

What about Dubai who were going to let buy our ports management?

What about the others we do business with?

What about Turkey?

This whole notion that Israel is our only ally in the Mid East is bogus in light of the other Pub talking points.

josh24601
01-11-2008, 03:59 PM
When Ron Paul discussed Israel last night, his answer seemed a bit wishy washy, like it didn't completely make sense. He acted as though the US giving Israel money is hurting Israel and that in order to help Israel we should cut them off. This obviously isn't the case, of course Israel wants our money and our protection so they can continue with their belligerent militarism with impunity and so we can fight on their behalf.


Replace the word "Israel" in your thought with the words "education" or "healthcare" or "wellfare." Get it now? Well maybe except for the end of the last sentence heh...

By speaking this way, he cuts at the knees the inevitable response "WELL YOU'RE GONNA JUST LET THEM DIE!!!".

By first demonstrating while it's in their best interest, and then tacking on at the end, "And we don't have the money to do it anyways" it speaks to both domestic problems and the likely problem of the person you're likely speaking to - somebody worried about Israel's well being.

Rather than decide to rant about how evil another country is - something lots of people like to do because it makes them feel good doing it - Dr. Paul actually uses an intelligent case to appeal to the person he's attempting to sway.

See how that works?

american empire
01-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Not everybody rabidly hates Israel. Personally, I'd be quite content to see Israel extend from the med to the Indian ocean. As long as it didn't involve the U.S. Let's get out of the way and let those crazy yids and crazy camel jockeys slaughter each other. I'll make the popcorn.
Reply With Quote

I vomitted twice after that....no wonder the neocons have a field day with this dumbass atitude....

Do you know what Israel is doing? they have tanks and gunships(from our aid) in Palestinian territory and all they get in response are school going Palestinians throwing rocks at tanks....

They are bulldozing Palestinian houses and building their settlements while getting Israeli's to inhabit them....ever heard of ethnic cleansing....

They have checkposts INSIDE Palestine ....checking Palestinians and asking for their cards....have they forgotten Nazi Germany when the same thing happened with them?.....

They are building a wall across palestine and usurping the Palestinian land along the way .....

Okay now let me put it into layman terms...b/c obviously you dont understand ....I wonder how you understand Ron....

Imagine if Mexico was to come with Tanks and gunship (paid by the Chinese) and bull doze our houses and build a wall that would take California, Arizona and the southern states to their sides. Imagine if they asked you for your "papers" everytime you wanted to go from Newyork to boston....I don't know about you but I would throw the first thing that comes to my hand even a rock...I would take up arms and try to kick them out....

Wow talk about ignorance in the world ......and STOP watching Fox News Propoganda....


Now about RoN'S yesterday debate about Israel...he was trying to show both sides of the conflict....what the Arab side are getting and Israel....unfortunately as some one put it ...The Fox watchers are the plankton of the food chain....Brainwashed that some how Israel is a state of America....besides Ron fully well knows the power of the Israeli lobby...he doesn't want to anger them too much......

And yes this is not about the Israeli people....b/c just like us there people are not happy with the way their administration handles things....There are a LOT of peace loving Israeli who are sick of their policies.....They give examples of the past when Jews and Arabs lived happily together without even making an issue of whose land it is or not.....

Sergeant Brother
01-12-2008, 10:14 AM
Look, I'm not saying that Ron Paul should call for an attack on Israel or that he should say anything anti-semitic. I just think its a bit ridiculous that he suggests we should apologize to Israel for giving them billions and propping up their country. Giuliani says that he knows Israeli politicians who want the US to continue aiding Israel - I believe him. If we cut off aid to Israel, we'd be doing to for us and not for them.

The Zionists (including Democrats and Republicans) who put the welfare and lives of Israelis above those of Americans think that Ron Paul is Hitler anyway regardless of how he puts forth his plan of cutting off aid to Israel.

Liberty_is_NORML
01-12-2008, 01:06 PM
When Ron Paul discussed Israel last night, his answer seemed a bit wishy washy, like it didn't completely make sense. He acted as though the US giving Israel money is hurting Israel and that in order to help Israel we should cut them off. This obviously isn't the case, of course Israel wants our money and our protection so they can continue with their belligerent militarism with impunity and so we can fight on their behalf.

Paul should have said how much harm that our support for Israel has caused us. He should have said that we're not under any obligation to give Israel any money. He should have said that Israel is no more an ally to America than a cancerous tumor or tapeworm is a person's ally. He should perhaps even question the patriotism of anybody who would be willing to sacrifice American lives on behalf of a foreign power. With all the courage and straight talk that Ron Paul shows on other issues, why the reluctance to speak honestly about Israel - when Israel supporting special interests already hate him?


Dude, you sound like a flaming white supremacist Jew Hater.

Thanks for making the rest of us look like ignorant idiots. If you know anything, you know we give 3 times as much money to Arab nations. You know, your brothers who want to destroy Israel. The God I believe in loves all people the same, regardless of race and religion. Ron Paul believes the same thing.

You REALLY need to calm down. Israel should be treated the same as ony other foreign country...fix their problems on their own.

Liberty Star
01-12-2008, 01:20 PM
RP was excellent.

He could have pointed out couple of facts when Huck, McCain were acting all Holy. And that won't be being harsh, just educating them why we get hated also when we align ourselves with the most disliked country in the world. RP could also have asked why foreign lobbying group like AIPAC that bribes politicians on both sides to influence US policies still has tax-exempt status while its top leaders are being investigated for spying for foreign countries?


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42645000/gif/_42645135_country_influ_gra203.gif

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6421597.stm

osofaux
01-12-2008, 01:57 PM
On June 8th 1967, Israel attacked the USS Liberty in international waters, killing 34 U.S. servicemen. A few years back I was fortunate enough to speak with one of the survivors of the attack shortly before he passed away. After listening to his account and reading everything I could find about the incident, there is no doubt in my mind that the attack was deliberate. Israel said it was an accident, and LBJ did not challenge their explanation, instead he ordered a cover-up.

Israel murdered U.S. sailors and got away with it, and every single U.S. dollar that goes to Israel is an insult to those brave men and their families. Ron was kind compared to my thoughts on Israel, but he said the right thing - they can take care of themselves, and they can do it on their own dime.

qh4dotcom
01-12-2008, 02:33 PM
His answer was fantastic...to speak out more harshly would have cost him votes

Sergeant Brother
01-12-2008, 03:48 PM
Dude, you sound like a flaming white supremacist Jew Hater.

Thanks for making the rest of us look like ignorant idiots. If you know anything, you know we give 3 times as much money to Arab nations. You know, your brothers who want to destroy Israel. The God I believe in loves all people the same, regardless of race and religion. Ron Paul believes the same thing.

You REALLY need to calm down. Israel should be treated the same as ony other foreign country...fix their problems on their own.

Oh please, give me a break. I criticize the very questionable actions of a foreign country who receives billions in American aid and suddenly I'm a "white supremacist Jew hater." Don't be absurd. Throwing those words around should be akin to a Godwin's law violation. I should have to right to insult a country without being accused of racism against the people who live in that country - and I suspect that I would be able to criticize any other country on earth without being called racist, but Israel seems to be an exception.

And there is no comparison between what we give Israel and what we give the Muslim countries. We give Israel access to our military technology - technology no other similar small nation would have access to - they in turn sell our secrets to China. We give them a variety of other foreign aid that doesn't count as official foreign aid as well. Check out this article by economist Thomas R. Stauffer : http://www.wrmea.com/archives/june2003/0306020.html

I think that Israel should be treated as any other foreign nation - I never said they should be destroyed or anything of the sort. I think we should stop giving them aid of any kind, just like Ron Paul thinks. Without having us to back them up, they are seriously going to have to adjust their policies and behavior and not be so violent and belligerent. But cutting off their aid doesn't help them per se, it helps us and it helps the innocent civilians that they use our military technology against. They want our money, they send millions to US politicians so bribe them to get our money. Doesn't it scare you the slightest bit that our politicians are in the pockets of foreign leaders? Don't pretend like we have to stop giving them money to help them in some way. We need to stop giving them money for our own benefit, not just because we don't have the money to give but because I (and many other Americans) don't want to be complicit in their crimes against humanity.

PS - Good point about the USS Liberty osofaux.

bcreps85
01-12-2008, 06:08 PM
I think he should have asked the other candidates if they were running for president of Israel or America.

joffe
01-12-2008, 07:13 PM
He mentioned a speech he made after Operation Opera.

Does anyone have the text of this speech?

fj45lvr
01-12-2008, 07:17 PM
I guess many of you don't recognize "terrorism" when its right before your eyes, and that INCLUDES "state sponsored terrorism". That's the kicker right there, the "establishment" has conned people into some altered thinking that if a "government" is doing the terrorizing and destruction that it is OK.

Hopefully Paul knows what's been going down and he is satisfied with not spilling the beans when it wouldn't do anything at this point.

NoMoreApathy
01-12-2008, 07:21 PM
There is something special about Israel though. If you don't support Israel, you're "unAmerican"...

Anyway, Ron was just trying to spin his answer in a way to make it seem he is in favor of Israel. I think he sincerely believes what he believes, but unlike the rest of the neo-cons and other misguided folk, doesn't see anything special about Israel. He doesn't see anything special about any country, except the US, because "we should be friends with all of them."

Not quite sure why people still don't get that.

qh4dotcom
01-12-2008, 09:21 PM
When Ron Paul discussed Israel last night, his answer seemed a bit wishy washy, like it didn't completely make sense. He acted as though the US giving Israel money is hurting Israel and that in order to help Israel we should cut them off. This obviously isn't the case, of course Israel wants our money and our protection so they can continue with their belligerent militarism with impunity and so we can fight on their behalf.

Paul should have said how much harm that our support for Israel has caused us. He should have said that we're not under any obligation to give Israel any money. He should have said that Israel is no more an ally to America than a cancerous tumor or tapeworm is a person's ally. He should perhaps even question the patriotism of anybody who would be willing to sacrifice American lives on behalf of a foreign power. With all the courage and straight talk that Ron Paul shows on other issues, why the reluctance to speak honestly about Israel - when Israel supporting special interests already hate him?

He couldn't have said it better...He said we're broke, can't afford to keep sending money there and we shouldn't lose any more American lives because of Israel...he said we should respect their sovereignty, we get too much in the way. According to ronpaul2008.com George Washington and Thomas Jefferson warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. He thinks we shouldn't be sending money there AND AT THE SAME TIME send money to Israel's enemies so they can arm themselves. Makes sense.