Democratic debates: Anyone watching?

[empirenine]

Mike Gravel is going all out on his attacks on Obama. And Obama didn't have a very good comeback.

I hope Gravel gets more airtime....he's stirring the pot.

And John Edwards' hair is OUT OF HAND tonight. That alone is a must see.

[empirenine]

I thought for sure there would be people watching. Nobody?

[freelance]

I'm watching. I'm DISGUSTED!

Did you see where Joe Biden would select Chuck Hagel for VP if he had to pick a Republican?

[SWATH]

I'm watching now. Uhgggg.

Clinton just got applause for stating that she is a woman!

[LibertyBelle]

Mike Gravel is going all out on his attacks on Obama. And Obama didn't have a very good comeback.

I hope Gravel gets more airtime....he's stirring the pot.

And John Edwards' hair is OUT OF HAND tonight. That alone is a must see.

LOL, maybe he tried a new mousse. :p Turning on the telly now, must see Hair Edwards! Seriously, didn't know it was on.....time to tune in.

[FSP-Rebel]

I'd rather hang myself...

[JosephTheLibertarian]

you see that slave reparation part? ha I would have said: no, no one owes you anything. get a job

[Johnnybags]

I am too busy pissing on a sparkplug, its more interesting..............

[aravoth]

I'd rather hang myself...

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!111!!!!!

[aravoth]

I am too busy pissing on a sparkplug, its more interesting..............

ROFLCOPTER!!!!

[rg123]

Watch how they dont answer the question except for Dennis and Mike other than that I'm sure the commenter are rehearsing their Hillary was god like as usual I notice they don't point out hillary not answering especially

[Salamando]

I'd rather have most of these guys than anyone in running in the GOP (outside of Paul of course)

[empirenine]

Hillary is getting applause for everything she says....BARF!

And I do agree about the GOP versus these guys. There are slightly better options here, but I do mean SLIGHTLY.

[LibertyEagle]

Richardson is such a one-worlder POS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wants a STANDING UNITED NATIONS' ARMY!

These idiots are just as much war-mongers as the Republicans! I think I'm going to barf.

Gravel endorsing GLOBAL FRIGGIN' GOVERNMENT!

The whole lot needs to be brought up for TREASON!

[goldstandard]

I'm watching. Kucinich got some applause (the first of the evening?). Edwards got applause when he said that he wants real change in Washington.

[DjLoTi]

please give me a link to watch it online

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Darfur? LOL hey.. if Congress wants to go in, do it! The President has no right to go in without Congressional support. They seem to ignore the fact that it is not the President's job to send troops wherever the hell he wants!

[LibertyEagle]

Darfur? LOL hey.. if Congress wants to go in, do it! The President has no right to go in without Congressional support. They seem to ignore the fact that it is not the President's job to send troops wherever the hell he wants!

If they want to go fight yet another war, I say THEY go! All of them! Dr. Paul can remain at home and watch the shop.

[DjLoTi]

link plz political junkie here needs his fix

[LibertyEagle]

What's this BS about Obama "being against the war from the start"? He's only been a senator for 2 friggin' years.

[LibertyEagle]

link plz political junkie here needs his fix

Look on CNN's web site.

You'll see the selection to launch the video under Latest News:
www.cnn.com

[JosephTheLibertarian]

If they want to go fight yet another war, I say THEY go! All of them! Dr. Paul can remain at home and watch the shop.

yes.. but in non-emergencies, it is the job of CONGRESS, not President, to deploy troops.... that's just a fact.

[LibertyEagle]

yes.. but in non-emergencies, it is the job of CONGRESS, not President, to deploy troops.... that's just a fact.

Agreed. But, I am sick and tired of all these socialist POS! So, I think all of them should go over there if they want to start yet another war. They can take the Decider with them! :p

[quickmike]

Id rather put an icepick up to my eardrum and tap it a few times with a small hammer than watch that splooge. Better yet, I could just go watch the Soviet Channel on satellite.:D

[DjLoTi]

o man I'm probably going to be 50 min late.... crap

[Lord Xar]

did anybody out themselves and declare amnesty for the illegals or have they not brought that question up yet?

I expect them to say "we need workers and immigrants is the foundation of this country"..... translation = "we will give illegal aliens amnesty to placate business much to the chargin our cities and social services"

I am sure they gave the "candycane" replies.. fix a broken system...

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Congress can EASILY vote to deploy troops into Darfur, then the President will take over command of the operation in conjunction with military officials... that's how it should work, not just send troops without any debate.

[DjLoTi]

When did it start?

[empirenine]

Started at 4pm PST.


No immigration questions yet.

[DjLoTi]

I have some killer background music that just blends sweetly with the debates. I wanna do this with Ron Paul..

[DjLoTi]

omg I am 2 hours late?????

[Dustancostine]

At the time I believe he was a Law Professor and he gave a speech against the war at a rally in 2002.

[DjLoTi]

o man my music is rocking this debate. Obama dodged this question

[Lord Xar]

omg I am 2 hours late?????

huh? AREN'T you suppose to be declaring some incredible secret soon?

[LibertyEagle]

Congress can EASILY vote to deploy troops into Darfur, then the President will take over command of the operation in conjunction with military officials... that's how it should work, not just send troops without any debate.

Yes. But, we have no business starting any other wars. WE ARE BROKE. Not to mention, this has nothing to do with our national security. Just like with charity, if these A-Holes want to "give", they need to do so THEMSELVES. So, they should be signing up for the military and getting their behinds over there.

[rg123]

I dont agree with some domestic with Mike Gravel but the guys has really good answers for alot of stuff and bless the guy for saying that this debate is more
staged bs and no fair time watch what they do to Ron

[DjLoTi]

Ron Paul is going to ROCK the next debate if it's anything like this!!!!!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Yes. But, we have no business starting any other wars. WE ARE BROKE. Not to mention, this has nothing to do with our national security. Just like with charity, if these A-Holes want to "give", they need to do so THEMSELVES. So, they should be signing up for the military and getting their behinds over there.

I don't know if I'd support it if I were a Congressman, I'd probably consult with my constituents first. I think that we should first get out of Iraq (and the UN) before we start thinking about deploying to Darfur.

[Razmear]

Im confused, are you watching this now, and where?

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Im confused, are you watching this now, and where?

CNN

[DjLoTi]

cnn.com

I hope they replay everything ....

[SeanEdwards]

Yes. But, we have no business starting any other wars. WE ARE BROKE. Not to mention, this has nothing to do with our national security. Just like with charity, if these A-Holes want to "give", they need to do so THEMSELVES. So, they should be signing up for the military and getting their behinds over there.

All the people that want to save darfur should get off their fat asses, get on a plane to that armpit of the world and do what they can to help. It's outrageous that these jerks think they can sit in their easy chairs and demand that our military people go die in order to assuage their sense of liberal guilt.

The volunteer military signed up to defend AMERICA. Not Darfur, or anywhere else.

[empirenine]

Obama has dodged just about every question he's been asked! Yuck.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

All the people that want to save darfur should get off their fat asses, get on a plane to that armpit of the world and do what they can to help. It's outrageous that these jerks think they can sit in their easy chairs and demand that our military people go die in order to assuage their sense of liberal guilt.

The volunteer military signed up to defend AMERICA. Not Darfur, or anywhere else.

yes.. But I'm only acknowledging the fact that CONGRESS has the power to do that if it wanted...

[DjLoTi]

Obama is talking about Ronald Regan... lol

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Obama is talking about Ronald Regan... lol

ugh... Ronald Reagan was nothing special. I'd take a Barry Goldwater any day...

[Razmear]

I thought the GOP one was going to be at 8am on a Sunday with Snuffalopigus. Will it be in prime time too?

eb

[DjLoTi]

Obama says the neighboring countries should be responsible for shouldering the burden of our destruction in Iraq

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I thought the GOP one was going to be at 8am on a Sunday with Snuffalopigus. Will it be in prime time too?

eb

no.. August 5th...I think

[DjLoTi]

August 5th, Sunday, 8am CST

None of these guys can compare to Ron Paul. Ron Paul...... is so good. lol

[DjLoTi]

OMG I *can't wait* to be in Des Moines for the debates

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul is going to ROCK the next debate if it's anything like this!!!!!

Well, we'll see. CNN is being somewhat fair on the time allotments, but remember this is the Democrats. I wonder if they'll do the same with the Republicans. They sure didn't last time. Plus, remember last time they had those little 30 minute chat session with the top Democratic candidates? Puke me.

Is Anderson Cooper going to be the moderator for the Republican debate?

[LibertyEagle]

This debate is just COMMIE CENTRAL.

[DjLoTi]

O man Biden just fooled himself....

This debates is going smoothly. There's no over dominance (so far) that I've seen. Yeah, hilary obama and edwards still get more time, but .... the others have their time, and we all know RP can say more in 2 minutes then those other puppets can say in 20 hours

[JosephTheLibertarian]

August 5th, Sunday, 8am CST

None of these guys can compare to Ron Paul. Ron Paul...... is so good. lol

which commercial will Dr. Paul be using for the debates ??

[BLS]

They are ALL saying the same thing. Some in different context, but it's all about the war. Fine...WE Get IT!! You want out of the war. What a concept.

[DjLoTi]

Ron Paul OWNS the internet! He's going to own a 'YouTube' debate format. lol. o man

[DjLoTi]

which commercial will Dr. Paul be using for the debates ??

That I do not know.

[DjLoTi]

BACK LIVE tune back in people.

[DjLoTi]

Bill Richardson's commercial was HORRIBLE! lol

[yongrel]

Edwards and his daddy's mill! Jeez.

[DjLoTi]

I'm getting quite bored with most these people. The problem is that I know all of these candidates don't belong in the white house. I also know that no other Republicans belong in the white house. There is nothing anyone can do to change my mind, what so ever.

So it's really boring to hear these people's rhetoric when I know Ron Paul is the only one with real answers.

[BLS]

Geez, Biden actually makes some sense.

[MikeStanart]

Now this is just stupid.....they're telling us which schools their kid's went to...instead of talking about real issues.....

This seems so.......unimportant.

[DjLoTi]

This seems so.......unimportant.

Yep, the only thing that's important is that Americans learn about Ron Paul and why he is the person who needs to be elected. As soon as the people do their own independent research on the internet, it's a no brainer.

[BLS]

oh boy...sex ed question.... :(

[AMack]

Biden and Kucinich are the least retarded of the Democrats. Overall I prefer Biden to Kucinich because Kucinich is a bit too extreme for me. My dad likes Biden too, so I must be doing something wrong, because my dad is a Romney supporter.

[quickmike]

Yep, the only thing that's important is that Americans learn about Ron Paul and why he is the person who needs to be elected. As soon as the people do their own independent research on the internet, it's a no brainer.

The debates always give Ron a pretty good boost, and with more people interested in the debates as we get closer to the primaries, those boosts will continue to get bigger and bigger. Thats my thinking anyway.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

To education: I would have said, completely deregulate and privatize education. My campaign would probably be finished after that point...lol

[DjLoTi]

O cool, Biden just insulted all southerners.

[BLS]

Come ON!! Bring on the TAXES questions.......

[BLS]

Oh...well, the taxes just got brought up.

[BLS]

This should be good...nuclear power question.

[DjLoTi]

Nuclear is not the answer. Any scientist can pitch an argument for solar vs. nuclear.

[LibertyEagle]

Hillary should have upped her botox before this appearance.

[yongrel]

I stopped watching when I realized that I could predict their answers verbatim.

[BLS]

Nuclear is not the answer. Any scientist can pitch an argument for solar vs. nuclear.

Except for night time....and cloudy weather.

Nuclear is a very effecient method of power, but I agree, they need to find a way to dispose of the waste.

[kalami]

I'm not watching, but tell me how close this is:
Obama: [insert social injustice here]... something needs to be done/I will do something.

[FSP-Rebel]

Hillary should have upped her botox before this appearance.
That was great. Thought I heard that botox is kinda disgusting...

[quickmike]

I stopped watching when I realized that I could predict their answers verbatim.

Well after all, its just a series of pulleys and strings connected to all the candidates, with Bill Clinton behind the curtain making them move. Dont you guys know that?

[BLS]

I will tell you this much about this debate. NONE of the Republican Debates got this much applause. Even if RP wins the GOP nomination....he's gonna have an tough battle ahead of him.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

energy: The answer is to leave it to the free market and enforce property laws, but no one wants to hear that.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Anyone see the part when Richardson got an applause for OPTICAL SCANNERS? WTF

[BLS]

energy: The answer is to leave it to the free market and enforce property laws, but no one wants to hear that.

That's entirely too conceptual and intelligent.
People want to be spoon fed answers with a direct plan on how things will get fixed, not to tell us 'if we change our approach to everything, the market will work itself out'.

That's a huge leap of faith for everyone that believes time and time again that some moron is going to be able to fix everything in 4 years.

Sheeple have short memories, apparently.

[LibertyEagle]

I will tell you this much about this debate. NONE of the Republican Debates got this much applause. Even if RP wins the GOP nomination....he's gonna have an tough battle ahead of him.

Actually, I think winning the general election would be MUCH easier than winning the Republican nomination. If we can win the primary, it's all downhill.

[SeanEdwards]

Kucinich just scammed a position from Paul. :mad: When asked about global warming he started talking about our wars to protect the oil industry.

These guys are sooooo lame! :rolleyes:

[LibertyEagle]

These pukeheads talk about SS, but only Gravel tells the truth about it. They keep RAIDING IT!

[kalami]

i don't know if Kucinich stole anything, but it's great exposure for the idea.

[LibertyEagle]

How about CUTTING SPENDING, Biden?!!!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

These pukeheads talk about SS, but only Gravel tells the truth about it. They keep RAIDING IT!

Didn't Gravel support the draft earlier? LOL

[rg123]

Didn't Gravel support the draft earlier? LOL


no Gravel is the man who fillabustered for 5 months after vietnam to end the draft

[LibertyEagle]

The point is, RICHARDSON, is that illegal aliens are NOT AMERICANS!!! It's real nice of these pukeheads to say our taxes should be used to pay for the healthcare of ILLEGAL friggin' ALIENS.

[pazzo83]

Health care for illegals? WTF?

[pazzo83]

Listen, I support comprehensive immigration reform, and I think we should make it more streamlined and efficient to have people come here legally, BUT, people that don't pay IN should not RECEIVE anything.

Solution: end welfare state.

[pazzo83]

Gravel is great, I love this guy. I don't agree with him all the time but he is awesome.

[LibertyEagle]

You support AMNESTY?

[rg123]

Gravel is great, I love this guy. I don't agree with him all the time but he is awesome.

agreed

[specialkornflake]

Gravel just tore them apart!

[LibertyEagle]

Our country has become a socialistic hog slop. Everyone has their hands out. Acting like money grows on trees. People have stopped using their brains.

[Lord Xar]

Health care for illegals? WTF?

my point exactly...... that i have made a MILLION TIMES>


business are allowed to hire illegals, putting americans out of work..and then we are suppose to pay taxes to support the illegal immigrants social services..

what a great socialist country we live in...

[quickmike]

Gravel is great, I love this guy. I don't agree with him all the time but he is awesome.

I agree. Hes the crotchety old man in the room that doesnt BS around stuff, even if i dont like his policy, his honesty is hilarious and embarrassing to those other clowns who cant even be honest about being completely full of shit.

[Meistro1]

Gravel just laid a beating on the front runners, accusing them justly of being a sell out.

[Lord Xar]

Gravel just tore them apart!

what did he say? Did he tell them they are crazy to support the welfare state or what.......

[quickmike]

Ok, heres a question........... if it were between Rudy and Gravel, who would you vote for? Just humor me on this one.

[specialkornflake]

Here is the talk clock for this debate:
http://chrisdodd.com/node/1878

It shows how long each person speaks during the debate.

[LibertyEagle]

Ok, heres a question........... if it were between Rudy and Gravel, who would you vote for? Just humor me on this one.

Honestly, I'd look for who was running in another party.

But, if you were putting forth the scenario that they were the ONLY people available to vote for, well then, this life-long Republican would most likely vote for Gravel.

[quickmike]

Honestly, I'd look for who was running in another party.

But, if you were putting forth the scenario that they were the ONLY people available to vote for, well then, this life-long Republican would most likely vote for Gravel.

I think I would too.............. damn, that says alot about Rudy doesnt it? LOL

[pyrazole]

This format really sucks. There's more questions than answers.

Heh...Hilary just cackled at Edwards' comment. That's a Howard Dean moment for her.

[specialkornflake]

CNN seems to like Obama, based on the Talk Clock and they featured his video last.

[BLS]

I'm gonna puke...Healthcare for EVERYBODY?!!? OK..then YOU pay for it you cocksucker. DAMN that makes me mad. I actually YELLED at my TV.

[Starks]

I'm gonna puke...Healthcare for EVERYBODY?!!? OK..then YOU pay for it you cocksucker. DAMN that makes me mad. I actually YELLED at my TV.

You'd rather have great healthcare for some rather than great healthcare for everybody?

[SWATH]

Biden's response to the gun control question just made me throw up in my fucking mouth!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

You'd rather have great healthcare for some rather than great healthcare for everybody?

I'd prefer health care for everyone, but not socialized medicine.

[quickmike]

funny how the levels on the talk clock directly coincides with the leve of corruption of each candidate......... with the exception of hillary maybe should have been higher than obama. Other than that, its pretty much dead on !!

[BLS]

You'd rather have great healthcare for some rather than great healthcare for everybody?

NO he said for everybody, including illegals.

[MsDoodahs]

lol, Gravel was funny.

[quickmike]

Biden's response to the gun control question just made me throw up in my fucking mouth!

Get used to the taste if anyone but RP gets elected.

[pazzo83]

You support AMNESTY?

No, I support creating a more rational system of immigration, like what we did in the early 20th Century. Clearly we have another wave of immigration upon us (after all, that is what has made America), so we need to DEAL with that. Instead of having hordes of people coming into this country illegally, why don't we create a streamlined process by which we bring people in here LEGALLY. I know people that have waited decades to come here, and have no criminal pasts or anything. That is ridiculous. I do NOT think people here illegally should be given citizenship, but what do you do with them? It is practically impossible to send them all home.

[Salamando]

Gravel and Kucinich are my favorites from the Demo side

[MsDoodahs]

Who is now "toast" post this debate?

I think Richardson is done done done - he wants to give free healthcare to illegals.

I also think Biden is through - that response on gun owners plays to the hardcore dems but not to mainstream folks.

[DeadheadForPaul]

Gravel > Kucinich > the rest of the Statists

[BLS]

No, I support creating a more rational system of immigration, like what we did in the early 20th Century. Clearly we have another wave of immigration upon us (after all, that is what has made America), so we need to DEAL with that. Instead of having hordes of people coming into this country illegally, why don't we create a streamlined process by which we bring people in here LEGALLY. I know people that have waited decades to come here, and have no criminal pasts or anything. That is ridiculous. I do NOT think people here illegally should be given citizenship, but what do you do with them? It is practically impossible to send them all home.

OK...I'm going to disagree with you.

Yes, You SHIP them home. It's not impossible, costly yes, but not impossible.
Look, you have to be held accountable to the same rules and laws as every other single immigrant had to.

should we increase the number that can come in each year? I don't know that I agree or disagree. I don't know enough about it honestly, but I'm not sure that we need 20 million mostly unskilled laborers when a ton of people are on welfare already. How about we give THEM jobs??

[LibertyEagle]

You'd rather have great healthcare for some rather than great healthcare for everybody?

It was the government that CAUSED the problem with our health care system. So you trust them to fix it? Ok, let's look how they handled Social Security. They tax us and then they raid the SS trust fund and spend the money on other crap they want to do. That's why it's almost broke. So, instead of addressing WHY it's broke, their solution is to tax us some more.

Have you visited a VA recently? Did you like it? Do you want the health care in our country to be like that? The VA is a perfect example of what government health care looks like.

Your comment sounds like you believe that there is some kind of healthcare genie. Exactly, where in the Constitution are you seeing that it is ok for government to force me to pay for my neighbor?

Here's something you should read. "Not Yours to Give"
http://www.house.gov/paul/nytg.htm

[BLS]

I also think Biden is through - that response on gun owners plays to the hardcore dems but not to mainstream folks.

I agree. I didn't think he was bad at all until he bashed that guy.
It probably backfired on him.

Look, I want the right to own weapons without restrictions.
The Constitution allows it, and the Fed Govt shoulds stay out of it.

[pazzo83]

Agreed, and I thought Richardson would have a more rational viewpoint on illegal immigration due to his being governor in NM.

[BLS]

It was the government that CAUSED the problem with our health care system. So you trust them to fix it? Ok, let's look how they handled Social Security. They tax us and then they raid the SS trust fund and spend the money on other crap they want to do. That's why it's almost broke. So, instead of addressing WHY it's broke, their solution is to tax us some more.

Have you visited a VA recently? Did you like it? Do you want the health care in our country to be like that? The VA is a perfect example of what government health care looks like.

Your comment sounds like you believe that there is some kind of healthcare genie. Exactly, where in the Constitution are you seeing that it is ok for government to force me to pay for my neighbor?

Here's something you should read. "Not Yours to Give"
http://www.house.gov/paul/nytg.htm

Amen brother! Amen.

[MsDoodahs]

Oh, goodness. If Dr. Paul loses the nomination, we are soooo screwed.

[ForTheRepublic]

Did I hear Gravel calling out the wall street bankers? or did I misunderstand?

It also seems the media has the best two candidates on the very end of the stage. coincidence? Isn't it nice for the media to show us who the real insiders are.

[LibertyEagle]

Agreed, and I thought Richardson would have a more rational viewpoint on illegal immigration due to his being governor in NM.

Oh hell, he's always been an advocate of Open Borders. He's pandering to the illegal aliens.

[BLS]

Oh, goodness. If Dr. Paul loses the nomination, we are soooo screwed.

Yup.

[BLS]

Did I hear Gravel calling out the wall street bankers? or did I misunderstand?

It also seems the media has the best two candidates on the very end of the stage. coincidence? Isn't it nice for the media to show us who the real insiders are.

Sort of. He called out Hillary as being a sellout to Wall Street.

[LibertyEagle]

Oh, goodness. If Dr. Paul loses the nomination, we are soooo screwed.

NO &^^%r^! If anything should energize us to fight harder to get Dr. Paul elected, this sure should do it.

Our country is history if one of these socialist jackasses gets elected.

[Meistro1]

Watching these dem's tip-toe over the question of "did the soldiers die in vain" makes me laugh... for people who try to bill themselves as "anti-war" they can't even bring themselves to oppose Vietnam, an unjust war that occured almost 40 years ago... how will they be able to oppose future wars if they can't even oppose past wars?

[pazzo83]

OK...I'm going to disagree with you.

Yes, You SHIP them home. It's not impossible, costly yes, but not impossible.
Look, you have to be held accountable to the same rules and laws as every other single immigrant had to.

should we increase the number that can come in each year? I don't know that I agree or disagree. I don't know enough about it honestly, but I'm not sure that we need 20 million mostly unskilled laborers when a ton of people are on welfare already. How about we give THEM jobs??

It's all about supply & demand, they won't come here if there are no jobs. I bet if we take away all the benefits we give to illegals essentially for nothing, the numbers coming over will fall dramatically. We still need immigration, and we still need SOME unskilled labor (I agree we don't need a lot), but you have to realize this: a lot of the people coming here on a permanent basis, a generation or two later, they are college educated (myself and several of my friends are evidence). Now don't get me wrong, illegal immigration is entirely reprehensible, and it needs to be dealt with IMMEDIATELY. But in the long run, it should not take an individual WANTING to come to this country to start a new life and contribute 20-30 yrs to do so!

Regarding shipping people out, I think money used for that can be better spent elsewhere. Maybe by reforming the immigration system in general.

[pazzo83]

Oh hell, he's always been an advocate of Open Borders. He's pandering to the illegal aliens.

Figures. I'm not a fan of him anymore, I didn't know much about him.

[quickmike]

I Ron Paul didnt get the nomination, I would be standing in the middle of the street laughing out loud like a maniac you would expect to see right after a world wide nuclear war, laughing at the stupidity of the rest of the humans, and the irony of it all.

[DjLoTi]

I Ron Paul didnt get the nomination, I would be standing in the middle of the street laughing out loud like a maniac you would expect to see right after a world wide nuclear war, laughing at the stupidity of the rest of the humans, and the irony of it all.

I'm going to go to foreign countries and apply for citizenship or try and be a refuge. I'm going to record everything, too.

[MsDoodahs]

Yeah, Mr.Doodahs and I have been talking about leaving...

[LibertyEagle]

Even the lineup of the Democrats was a pile of BS. Hillary, Mr. Good Hair and Obama all together in the middle, with Gravel and Kucinich pushed out to the edges.

Despicable.

I sure hope they don't stick Ron on the end again.

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, Mr.Doodahs and I have been talking about leaving...

Yeah, but what country is not messed up in this crap?

[quickmike]

Yeah, Mr.Doodahs and I have been talking about leaving...

I think after all the laughing, I would go to Switzerland............yeah, that would be my pick.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

My grandparents came from Italy, so I could probably acquire Italian /EU citizenship.

[pazzo83]

My grandparents came from Italy, so I could probably acquire Italian /EU citizenship.

All I have is Venezuela, and trust me, as bad as it is here, Chavez is a WHOLE other level. My grandfather's house is under gov't surveillance because they know he has ties to the US (my family).

[empirenine]

SIDE NOTE: Richardson scares me to the extent that Romney does. Heebee jeebees!

[Spirit of '76]

Gravel is one pissed off dude.

[Salamando]

Gravel is one pissed off dude.

Theres nothing better than a pissed off old guy

[DjLoTi]

I'm going to try and learn how to grow fruit and things, and live in my own little world...

[ThePieSwindler]

My grandparents came from Italy, so I could probably acquire Italian /EU citizenship.

Hehe EU. You want to escape the socialists? Europe aint the place to go...

[ForTheRepublic]

Gravel is one pissed off dude.

Ya, i kind of like it. Americans is pissed at both parties. Maybe I just like the fact that he calls out the Dems on there connections to the wall street bankers

[MsDoodahs]

I appreciated the fact that Anderson asked them who came on a private or chartered jet to the debates - and he asked it right after a viewer submitted ? on the environment.

If I'm not mistaken, the only ones who didn't waste a buttload of fuel were Kucinich and Gravel.

lol...

[ForTheRepublic]

I appreciated the fact that Anderson asked them who came on a private or chartered jet to the debates - and he asked it right after a viewer submitted ? on the environment.

If I'm not mistaken, the only ones who didn't waste a buttload of fuel were Kucinich and Gravel.

lol...

Good call.

But are the people really paying attention? Hypocrites don't seem to phase people these days.

[Spirit of '76]

Ya, i kind of like it. Americans is pissed at both parties. Maybe I just like the fact that he calls out the Dems on there connections to the wall street bankers

Yeah, that was awesome.


If I'm not mistaken, the only ones who didn't waste a buttload of fuel were Kucinich and Gravel.


How'd you like the ones who tried to slip out of it because Cooper asked if they took a private jet "tonight", but they arrived yesterday.

Politicians...

[MsDoodahs]

Anyone watching the post debate coverage and why in the heck do they have a woman from some ... I dunno, Mexican? television network there?

Is she supposed to be letting us all know how the illegal immigrants feel about the responses of the candidates?

[ThePieSwindler]

I appreciated the fact that Anderson asked them who came on a private or chartered jet to the debates - and he asked it right after a viewer submitted ? on the environment.

If I'm not mistaken, the only ones who didn't waste a buttload of fuel were Kucinich and Gravel.

lol...

Of course thats mainly because they don't have the money to do that.

[LibertyEagle]

Anyone watching the post debate coverage and why in the heck do they have a woman from some ... I dunno, Mexican? television network there?

Is she supposed to be letting us all know how the illegal immigrants feel about the responses of the candidates?

Yeah, I noticed that too.

[mesler]

You'd rather have great healthcare for some rather than great healthcare for everybody?

I think everyone should have access to affordable healthcare. Computers get cheaper and faster with a free market, cars get better and more efficient in a free market, and healthcare should become better and cheaper in a free market.

Now, maybe someone can explain to me the problem with our healthcare system and why it's not a free market system. :)

[Delaware]

I'm thinking about getting citizenship in a European country too, but i guess it's alot harder if your grandparents didn't come from there (mine would be great or great great grandparents).

Anyhow, if the US becomes a Socialist Superstate, im out of here.

[MsDoodahs]

Is this Biden the same guy who plagarized in some speech a few years ago?

[BLS]

It's all about supply & demand, they won't come here if there are no jobs. I bet if we take away all the benefits we give to illegals essentially for nothing, the numbers coming over will fall dramatically. We still need immigration, and we still need SOME unskilled labor (I agree we don't need a lot), but you have to realize this: a lot of the people coming here on a permanent basis, a generation or two later, they are college educated (myself and several of my friends are evidence). Now don't get me wrong, illegal immigration is entirely reprehensible, and it needs to be dealt with IMMEDIATELY. But in the long run, it should not take an individual WANTING to come to this country to start a new life and contribute 20-30 yrs to do so!

Regarding shipping people out, I think money used for that can be better spent elsewhere. Maybe by reforming the immigration system in general.

I agree with the point you made about if we took away their 'freebies', they would not have as much incentive. I also agree that there is SOME need to for them to be here. I also agree that we shouldn't make it so tough to come here.

BUT...

I fully DISAGREE about not shipping them back. It's about principle.
If you are a LEGAL immigrant, then if it doesn't piss you off that they would become legal citizens without going through the same channels you went through, then I'm at a loss. I would figure this would get under your skin.

I stand firmly for NO Amnesty for illegals. NONE.
Learn the language, learn our history, learn how our laws work and our Constitution. I support our constitutional laws fully, and have a personal zero tolerance policy regarding illegals. ZERO.

[bygone]

I'm going to try and learn how to grow fruit and things, and live in my own little world...

lmao... if only it could be that simple

expatriation isnt a simple, cheap, or even effective solution either.

You know I wish they would have these debates and allow the candidates to respond but FORCE them to VOTE on questions YES OR NO and record the answers and make them available.

Some of them (cough Hillary) didn't have to answer a few hard questions. They all said some things I like and they all said some things I didn't. Best line of the night "Follow the money".

I don't have the answers for our country and neither do they. We're all guessing. All I know is we should stop policing the world when we can't even take care of ourselves and while I'm at it one more thing...

Any country that has to borrow billions daily isn't the richest country in the world. I'm beyond tired of hearing it when our debt is equal to our net worth of the entire country or soon will be. $0.02.

[MsDoodahs]

Anyhow, if the US becomes a Socialist Superstate, im out of here.

The US already IS a socialist superstate.

[AnotherAmerican]

why in the heck do they have a woman from some ... I dunno, Mexican? television network there?


Probably that was Telemundo. This may come as a shock, but people in other countries do pay attention to US politics, y'know.

[Edit: A poster below said it was Univision - I didn't catch the logo; I stand corrected.]

[Delaware]

I watched most of it, anything after 8pm, Gravel and Kucinich are cool, only because they arent bought out. I hate Hillary so badly. Edwards just wants VP.

These Liberals are starting to seem fairly socialist to me.

[pazzo83]

Anyone watching the post debate coverage and why in the heck do they have a woman from some ... I dunno, Mexican? television network there?

Is she supposed to be letting us all know how the illegal immigrants feel about the responses of the candidates?

It's Univision, it's from the United States.

[Blowback]

Watching the democratic debates is so worth it just so I can watch Gravel toss hand grenades at the other candidates. If I had to pick one of the democratic candidates I woul definetly pick Gravel.

[ThePieSwindler]

Wait why are people seriously talking about moving to europe. If you are afraid of a socialist superstate... DONT GO TO EUROPE LOL because thats what they already have (and people opposing the NAU... well they already have that in europe as well!). Don't leave us, stay here and stand up for liberty. Ron Paul has woken people up, and will wake many more up before it is all through. If we can't have a president that will stand up for liberty, we need to force it from the ground up. Who knows, Ron Paul might even feel like running again in 4 years (gravel is like 76-77). Don't abandon us in our darkest hour, we need to keep liberty and freedom movement alive.

That being said, lets avoid that altogether and get Ron the nomination.

[Delaware]

I thought maybe I'd go to Argentina, buy a ranch and live in Patagonia, or live in the Canadian Taiga. I'd rather be a hermit and live and do as i please, than be forced and coerced into things i dont want to in a socialist society.

[pazzo83]

I agree with the point you made about if we took away their 'freebies', they would not have as much incentive. I also agree that there is SOME need to for them to be here. I also agree that we shouldn't make it so tough to come here.

BUT...

I fully DISAGREE about not shipping them back. It's about principle.
If you are a LEGAL immigrant, then if it doesn't piss you off that they would become legal citizens without going through the same channels you went through, then I'm at a loss. I would figure this would get under your skin.

I stand firmly for NO Amnesty for illegals. NONE.
Learn the language, learn our history, learn how our laws work and our Constitution. I support our constitutional laws fully, and have a personal zero tolerance policy regarding illegals. ZERO.

Fair enough, I definitely respect where you're coming from, because I agree that we should have zero tolerance (we just disagree on the $$ issue). Another thing you can do (and I think this is more important, because illegals mostly come here for non-criminal reasons) is fine the HELL out of companies that hire them. I mean border-line draconian fines. They need to be held AS accountable if not more as the illegals.

[BLS]

I think everyone should have access to affordable healthcare. Computers get cheaper and faster with a free market, cars get better and more efficient in a free market, and healthcare should become better and cheaper in a free market.

Now, maybe someone can explain to me the problem with our healthcare system and why it's not a free market system. :)

It's 'supposed' to be a free market system.
But lobbyists for big HMO's, Pharm companies and Hospitals keep politicians in their pockets and therefore create ridiculous monopolies.

Look, I helped my grandmother get some pills she needed a few years back when my grandpa died (WWII vet). She had to drive to Fargo, ND from MPLS/STP (about 5 hrs drive and she doesn't have a license) to get her pills from the Air Force base up there. For 3 months I had to drive her up there because at the local walmart her MONTHLY bills for pills was about $1200.

It's INSANE they are that much. There's no way that 1 pill is worth $45, which her heart medication was. When the govt has to pay for that when she gets them from the VA, who do you think PAYS for that?

[DjLoTi]

I thought maybe I'd go to Argentina, buy a ranch and live in Patagonia, or live in the Canadian Taiga. I'd rather be a hermit and live and do as i please, than be forced and coerced into things i dont want to in a socialist society.

My thoughts exactly.

[Delaware]

I Don't mean the European Union.

I'd rather move to Belarus, Switzerland, Iceland, or some other obscure non-EU country.

Maybe Russia, supposedly the Russians love Putin, he must be doing good over there.

[MsDoodahs]

Probably that was Telemundo. This may come as a shock, but people in other countries do pay attention to US politics, y'know.

[Edit: A poster below said it was Univision - I didn't catch the logo; I stand corrected.]

I've never seen Telemundo or Univision get a seat at CNN to discuss debates before.

Sign of the times...

[Richandler]

I love how CNN keeps talking about how it was so different, yet I saw no difference. My favorite part was when Clinton was asked what she would do to stop political games in Washington and then proceeds to talk about how Bush is bad and how the Pentagon bashed her. If CNN was run by any one with a decent IQ they would have pointed this out. It's sad that they are deciding for people watching who won.

The best candidates got the least time unfortunately. I have to support Obama for the Dems. Clinton and Edwards both never answered a question and blurted out enough political rhetoric to fill up the hoover damn.

Hopefully CNN does pull this crap with the Republicans and gives Paul what he deserves.

[BLS]

Fair enough, I definitely respect where you're coming from, because I agree that we should have zero tolerance (we just disagree on the $$ issue). Another thing you can do (and I think this is more important, because illegals mostly come here for non-criminal reasons) is fine the HELL out of companies that hire them. I mean border-line draconian fines. They need to be held AS accountable if not more as the illegals.

Agreed! Punish those that hire them, and that will help deter them.
And for the record, I don't think they're here (majority) for criminal reasons.
They want a better life, and I think that's OK. I mean honestly...if you're not Native American, YOU'RE an immigrant too. It would be hypocrytical to see it otherwise.

But do it legally.

[Give me liberty]

Gravel and Kucinich are my favorites from the Demo side

same here.

[Delaware]

I work with Illegal Immigrants, and im not so sure they want to become Americans, they just like the work and the money.

[pazzo83]

I thought maybe I'd go to Argentina, buy a ranch and live in Patagonia, or live in the Canadian Taiga. I'd rather be a hermit and live and do as i please, than be forced and coerced into things i dont want to in a socialist society.

Argentina got ROCKED in its 2001 economic fallout, it was like our 1929 crash but way worse. Basically a lot of currency traders (big timers) hedged their bets against the peso in favor of the Brazilian Real, and it just killed it. I believe it now trades at about a 3-1 vs the USD. Plus Argentina's president, Kirchner, is a socialist who is friendly to Chavez's idea of a united south American state. He has discussed building an oil pipeline from Venezuela to Argentina.

Although, Argentina's civil liberties have been far less curtailed than other Latin American countries. It is still relatively free, a la Chile. But it is much more socialist than the US.

[pazzo83]

Agreed! Punish those that hire them, and that will help deter them.
And for the record, I don't think they're here (majority) for criminal reasons.
They want a better life, and I think that's OK. I mean honestly...if you're not Native American, YOU'RE an immigrant too. It would be hypocrytical to see it otherwise.

But do it legally.

Amen.

[LibertyEagle]

Agreed! Punish those that hire them, and that will help deter them.
And for the record, I don't think they're here (majority) for criminal reasons.
They want a better life, and I think that's OK. I mean honestly...if you're not Native American, YOU'RE an immigrant too. It would be hypocrytical to see it otherwise.

But do it legally.

Well, I DO have a lot of Native American Indian in my blood and these people are NOT immigrants. They are ILLEGAL ALIENS. I realize that most come here for a better life and the real problem is in Washington D.C., because they force states to give free handouts to illegals, etc., but if we do not stop this invasion, our country is dead.

[inibo]

Ok, heres a question........... if it were between Rudy and Gravel, who would you vote for? Just humor me on this one.

No contest. Gravel, he really is a man you'd wanna have a beer with.

[pazzo83]

I work with Illegal Immigrants, and im not so sure they want to become Americans, they just like the work and the money.

Some don't, and they should not be given a favored status to enter the country. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed in, but people that want to move here permanently and contribute need to be given a more favorable status.

[ThePieSwindler]

I Don't mean the European Union.

I'd rather move to Belarus, Switzerland, Iceland, or some other obscure non-EU country.

Maybe Russia, supposedly the Russians love Putin, he must be doing good over there.

Right i agree on that, but JosephtheLibertarian said italy/EU which is funny because they are MORE socialized. Personally i'd move to somalia and marry into a family and live under their custom law system where one pays reparations for a crime by doing a service for those they hurt, and where the market is completely unrestricted... and private telecomm is advancing technology much faster than anywhere else in africa. Think im crazy? Read this article:

http://www.mises.org/story/2066

in truth i probably would move to switzerland (even though its a direct democracy), or something like that. Actually i'm not going ot leave the US no matter how far tyranny goes because i want to stand up for liberty and stick with my country in the face of that tyranny.

[Delaware]

Guiliani is probably more liberal than Gravel.

Guiliani is probably the person who i dislike the most out of both parties.

[pazzo83]

Guiliani is probably more liberal than Gravel.

Guiliani is probably the person who i dislike the most out of both parties.

Giuliani scares the sh*t out of me with some of his rhetoric.

[ThePieSwindler]

No contest. Gravel, he really is a man you'd wanna have a beer with.

Gravel, because even though i disagree with him on his views, at least he is honest and DOES care for the everyman (even if that care is misplaced and actually harms the working class et al.), he is still genuine, and will not erode civil liberties, even if he will kill economic liberty.

[BLS]

Well, I DO have a lot of Native American Indian in my blood and these people are NOT immigrants. They are ILLEGAL ALIENS. I realize that most come here for a better life and the real problem is in Washington D.C., because they force states to give free handouts to illegals, etc., but if we do not stop this invasion, our country is dead.

You should read my earlier posts in this thread. I agree 100%.
We're on the same page brother.

[empirenine]

Giuliani scares the sh*t out of me with some of his rhetoric.

Agreed. Romney scares me for the way he appears like an animatronic Disney machine.

[BLS]

Well, I DO have a lot of Native American Indian in my blood and these people are NOT immigrants. They are ILLEGAL ALIENS. I realize that most come here for a better life and the real problem is in Washington D.C., because they force states to give free handouts to illegals, etc., but if we do not stop this invasion, our country is dead.


and if it makes a shred of difference, I too am 25% Cherokee.
But that means 75% of me is immigrant, for arguments sake, of course.

[rg123]

lots of illegals=NAU turning America into a spanish country with all of us being
slave labor with RFID chips in our bodies giving illegal free health care does nothing about Mexico's leaders raking their citizens allowing them to migrate
here forces them not to stand up to their country. They do not want to be americans as we have seen them waving foreign flags in our streets it is an allowed invasion by the cfr and both sides of congress and corporate lobbys

[ThePieSwindler]

Gravel serves his purpose well of calling out the other candidates on their bullshit.

[pazzo83]

lots of illegals=NAU turning America into a spanish country with all of us being
slave labor with RFID chips in our bodies giving illegal free health care does nothing about Mexico's leaders raking their citizens allowing them to migrate
here forces them not to stand up to their country. They do not want to be americans as we have seen them waving foreign flags in our streets it is an allowed invasion by the cfr and both sides of congress and corporate lobbys

You'd be AMAZED how widespread English is in Latin America, it is all over the place. In Argentina I've seen ads on buses for Disney's High School Musical. My little prima (cousin) in Venezuela knows like every Brittany Spears song. US TV stations are widespread and make up 1/3 to half of all that people watch. I'm not worried about Spanish overturning English in this country.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Gravel serves his purpose well of calling out the other candidates on their bullshit.

that guy is very angry lol

[MsDoodahs]

that guy is very angry lol

He and I have that in common. :)

[BillyBeer]

I just about barfed when a bunch of the Dems said they supported government health care for illegal aliens.

[angelatc]

I LIke Gravel. I think if he is PRident,Lewis Black should be the VP.

Hillary surpried me. When asked if she was defininf himself as a liberal, she went off into something like, "liberal used to mean fair, a chance to get ahead....I define myself as progressive."

Wow! Just Wow.

[DjLoTi]

"liberal used to mean fair, a chance to get ahead....I define myself as progressive."



barf

[BLS]

Forgive me......I am a very opinionated person.....

But am I the only one who saw this BS Democratic Debate and came to the realization that we need to quadruple our efforts for Ron Paul?

I'm so SICK and TIRED of this BS. Bush has tainted the Republican party.
Make no bones about it...he and his administration have singlehandedly SCREWED our country, and more importantyly SCREWED our party.

Make no mistake, we are on a UPHILL battle because so many people in this country are NOT informed, and that is to BE expected. You cannot expect everyone to invest this much effort into politics.

We NEED to POUND Ron Pauls name into everyone's head.
WE need to continue to PUSH everyone to be INFORMED.
I am NOT going to TRY to convince people that Ron Paul is the best candidate.
But I WILL give everyone I know the opportunity to LEARN.

[SWATH]

I LIke Gravel. I think if he is PRident,Lewis Black should be the VP.


Wow! Just Wow.

Lewis Black is a big Brady Campaign supporter so...NO GUNS FOR YOU!

I'm still reeling from Joe Biden's comment about people who own firearms being metally derainged. Does this man know nothing of this country?!?

[BLS]

Lewis Black is a big Brady Campaign supporter so...NO GUNS FOR YOU!

I'm still reeling from Joe Biden's comment about people who own firearms being metally derainged. Does this man know nothing of this country?!?

Well, in all fairness, I think he was saying that this guy needs help because he owns a M-4. IMO, I totally agree with you that he LOST all of my respect with that ONE statement.

Nobody....REPEAT...NOBODY is taking my guns from me.


You can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.

[Starks]

The one issue that Ron Paul pisses me off with is that he isn't willing to even consider universal healthcare. If there is even one thing he should compromise on, it is certainly healthcare.

No offense to RP, but his view of continuing our capitalist healthcare system, whether he wishes or not, will only allow the insurance companies to continue to pocket our cash.

[BLS]

The one issue that Ron Paul pisses me off with is that he isn't willing to even consider universal healthcare. If there is even one thing he should compromise on, it is certainly healthcare.

No offense to RP, but his view of continuing our capitalist healthcare system, whether he wishes or not, will only allow the insurance companies to continue to pocket our cash.

YOU are uninformed...that's the only problem with your issue.

[Starks]

YOU are uninformed...that's the only problem with your issue.

Rather than tell me I'm wrong. Tell me why I'm wrong.

My view: Even if the men running Washington pass legislation to redouble the efforts to make healthcare affordable and available to everyone, it is the insurance companies alone that will continue to benefit.

[SWATH]

I know he has thought this through. Universal Healthcare would not only prevent you from eliminating taxes, but force you to raise them. That is the wrong way to go, you cannot force everyone to pay for everyone elses healthcare, that is socialism.

[MozoVote]

I'm afraid that universal health care would become like visiting the DMV. No thanks.

[SeanEdwards]

LOL, Richardson says we should worried about poverty around the world, in Africa, Asia, blah blah.

What the hell? Who is advising these clowns? :confused: Do they honestly believe Americans want more meddling in the world, and more of our taxes being wasted overseas? It's freaking comical. New Orleans washed away. Our manufacturing industry has been gutted. We don't actually produce anything anymore, except maybe dollar bills, and this guy thinks we need to play Santa Claus to the whole world??

This nitwit doesn't get disrespected by the media like Paul does, even when he gets on stage in front of a national audience and rhetorically drools on himself. What the hell is going on with this country?? :confused:

[Starks]

I know he has thought this through. Universal Healthcare would not only prevent you from eliminating taxes, but force you to raise them. That is the wrong way to go, you cannot force everyone to pay for everyone elses healthcare, that is socialism.

I'm well aware that the issue of taxes is unavoidable when talking about healthcare. I'd like you to answer this question, regardless of whether taxes are raised.

Which would you rather have?

1. A great healthcare system that is free to every American citizen.

or

2. A great healthcare system that is based on premiums and leaves millions uninsured.

[SWATH]

Yes the guy had an M4 or other AR variant, but Biden did not specify this. Since he bought it during the '94 (or even if he bought it after) ban it is no different than any other semi-auto rifle. I thought I actually heard the crowed start to boo him while he was saying it.

Which brings me to my next thought.

I wonder if they intentionally bounce these hard questions off the lesser candidates first so the top teir "chosen ones" can gauge their future responses on the feedback of the public, and thus are protected from a potential gaff.

[LibertyEagle]

I LIke Gravel. I think if he is PRident,Lewis Black should be the VP.

Hillary surpried me. When asked if she was defininf himself as a liberal, she went off into something like, "liberal used to mean fair, a chance to get ahead....I define myself as progressive."

Wow! Just Wow.

In other words, she's a socialist.

[BuddyRey]

Ok, heres a question........... if it were between Rudy and Gravel, who would you vote for? Just humor me on this one.

I already love Gravel, so it's given that I'd pick him over an autocratic police state scumbag like Rudy Ghouliani!

[LibertyEagle]

and if it makes a shred of difference, I too am 25% Cherokee.
But that means 75% of me is immigrant, for arguments sake, of course.

I am assuming the 75 percent came to this country legally, is that not true?

[SWATH]

I'm well aware that the issue of taxes is unavoidable when talking about healthcare. I'd like you to answer this question, regardless of whether taxes are raised.

Which would you rather have?

1. A great healthcare system that is free to every American citizen.

or

2. A great healthcare system that is based on premiums and leaves millions uninsured.

I already answered your question. It doesn't matter how good it would be, it is socialism. It is not free, the working man pays for it in taxes taken out of his pocket, so it really does not matter if it would be better because you don't have the money to pay for it and the working man's money is not yours to play with. Is your goal freedom or socialized medicine? If it is the latter, why not just tax everyone 50% of their income and pay doctors 10 million dollars a year to provide top quality healthcare. If it is the former, leave the government out of it.

[BravoSix]

I'm well aware that the issue of taxes is unavoidable when talking about healthcare. I'd like you to answer this question, regardless of whether taxes are raised.

Which would you rather have?

1. A great healthcare system that is free to every American citizen.

or

2. A great healthcare system that is based on premiums and leaves millions uninsured.


The issue isn't taxes.

The issue is that healthcare is expensive in this country because of government interference. Exactly how would MORE of the cause of this problem solve this problem?

That's the issue with the vast majority of Democrats' solution to all problems. More government.

Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.

[pazzo83]

LOL, Richardson says we should worried about poverty around the world, in Africa, Asia, blah blah.

What the hell? Who is advising these clowns? :confused: Do they honestly believe Americans want more meddling in the world, and more of our taxes being wasted overseas? It's freaking comical. New Orleans washed away. Our manufacturing industry has been gutted. We don't actually produce anything anymore, except maybe dollar bills, and this guy thinks we need to play Santa Claus to the whole world??

This nitwit doesn't get disrespected by the media like Paul does, even when he gets on stage in front of a national audience and rhetorically drools on himself. What the hell is going on with this country?? :confused:

Americans as individuals or as civic orgs, private groups, etc should be worried about poverty in Africa (and elsewhere). The gov't should NOT force the aforementioned to be worried about poverty in Africa (and elsewhere). Therein lies the crucial difference.

[MozoVote]

I'm glad I spent time addressing letters to Iowans tonight instead of watching these assclowns debate.

[cajuncocoa]

It was the government that CAUSED the problem with our health care system. So you trust them to fix it? Ok, let's look how they handled Social Security. They tax us and then they raid the SS trust fund and spend the money on other crap they want to do. That's why it's almost broke. So, instead of addressing WHY it's broke, their solution is to tax us some more.

Have you visited a VA recently? Did you like it? Do you want the health care in our country to be like that? The VA is a perfect example of what government health care looks like.

Your comment sounds like you believe that there is some kind of healthcare genie. Exactly, where in the Constitution are you seeing that it is ok for government to force me to pay for my neighbor?

Here's something you should read. "Not Yours to Give"
http://www.house.gov/paul/nytg.htm
You can't see me, but I'm standing up cheering for your post!

[cajuncocoa]

I think everyone should have access to affordable healthcare. Computers get cheaper and faster with a free market, cars get better and more efficient in a free market, and healthcare should become better and cheaper in a free market.

Now, maybe someone can explain to me the problem with our healthcare system and why it's not a free market system. :)

Cheering for this one, too!

[mesler]

YOU are uninformed...that's the only problem with your issue.

That's no way to approach a fellow RP supporter. :(

[Spirit of '76]

LOL, Richardson says we should worried about poverty around the world, in Africa, Asia, blah blah.


During the after-action review, one of the CNN commentators pointed out that aid to Africa has quadrupled under the Bush administration.

[Starks]

The issue isn't taxes.

The issue is that healthcare is expensive in this country because of government interference. Exactly how would MORE of the cause of this problem solve this problem?

That's the issue with the vast majority of Democrats' solution to all problems. More government.

Government is not the solution. Government is the problem.

Okay, point taken, lets assume we don't socialize medicine:

Would having the government pass incentives that aim to make healthcare more affordable and available be "problematic" in your opinion.

What should be done to address the concerns of the millions uninsured in this nation? What would Ron Paul do?

[MsDoodahs]

Which would you rather have?

1. A great healthcare system that is free to every American citizen.

or

2. A great healthcare system that is based on premiums and leaves millions uninsured.


A great healthcare system based on premiums that leaves millions uninsured.

[SWATH]

Okay, point taken, lets assume we don't socialize medicine:

Would having the government pass incentives that aim to make healthcare more affordable and available be "problematic" in your opinion.

What should be done to address the concerns of the millions uninsured in this nation? What would Ron Paul do?

I believe what Ron Paul would do would be to eliminate all of the wasteful government regulations involving healthcare as a direct immediate response. However, he recognizes that many things being unaffordable is a symptom of inflation and the devalueing of the dollar, which he would stop or reduce by getting rid of the Fed.

Not too awful long ago, doctors made house calls, and were affordable to the average person.

[MozoVote]

Even Dr Paul might agree that states can set up health care plans if they want to. It just does not need to be federally funded. Odds are we would still have something like Blue Cross available.

But there would be no free lunch. Everyone pays something.

[Starks]

A great healthcare system based on premiums that leaves millions uninsured.

I agree that there each American should have a degree of personal responsibility when dealing with health, but isn't it kind of callous to tell a stranger or family member that doesn't have or can't afford health insurance, that they don't deserve it?

[MsDoodahs]

Would having the government pass incentives that aim to make healthcare more affordable and available be "problematic" in your opinion.

What should be done to address the concerns of the millions uninsured in this nation? What would Ron Paul do?

YES, having the gov't sticking its nose in healthcare in ANY way is problematic IMO.

What should be done to address the concerns of millions of uninsured? IMO, NOTHING.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Okay, point taken, lets assume we don't socialize medicine:

Would having the government pass incentives that aim to make healthcare more affordable and available be "problematic" in your opinion.

What should be done to address the concerns of the millions uninsured in this nation? What would Ron Paul do?

You don't understand. The system we currently have is fascist, before this system was implemented, everyone got treated! It wasn't socialized... why is that? Free market and free entry, technology should be decreasing prices, then there would be doctor - patient relationships.

[Nash]

Okay, point taken, lets assume we don't socialize medicine:

Would having the government pass incentives that aim to make healthcare more affordable and available be "problematic" in your opinion.

What should be done to address the concerns of the millions uninsured in this nation? What would Ron Paul do?

I 100% agree with you that healthcare is screwed up in this country. I certainly will not pretend there is no problem or that uninsured people in America is not a "crisis".

What needs to be done are a couple easy solutions that Ron Paul has suggested that won't fix everything but would help.

1) Allow Americans to purchase their own healthcare tax free. Currently corporations can do this but not individuals. Does that make any sense?
2) Allow re-importation of prescription drugs. Currently this is illegal because big pharma pays off the FDA to prohibit this "for our safety". It's a no brainer that will drive costs down.
3) Decrimilnalize Medical Marijuana.
4) Reduce restrictions on prescription drugs. Why should I have to go to a doctor and pay money for him to prescribe me drugs I already know I need?
5) Get standard checkups (blood tests for example) by seeing a nurse and not a doctor.

Those are easy and practical solutions that are a first step in fixing healthcare in this country. All of them involve less regulation not more and less taxation not more and they all would work great but unfortunately the corrupt lobbyists for insurance and pharma companies don't want that to happen. I wonder why?

Oh and a couple other points. First, as others have said this type of Universal Health Care system is horribly inefficient. Generally under such a system 70 cents of every dollar go to government officials instead of money you pay into the system. Insurance has similar inefficiencies but it's not nearly as dramatic.

Secondly, my biggest issue with Universal Health Coverage is that it compromises personal freedoms. Smoking is unhealthy and a burden on taxpayers so stop it. Drinking alcohol is too. And drug use. And skateboarding. And snowboarding. And eating too much fat. And living in a high crime area. And driving a car. And a motorcycle. The list goes on and will continue to grow. Can you see where this is going?

[LibertyEagle]

The reality is that most of these SOBs, on both sides of the aisle, have been bought and sold. I don't know how we're going to fix this, but this A-Holes need to be brought to trial and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Unfortunately, I think the same applies to the vast majority of our Congress and most certainly applies to the Executive Branch.

[Texan4Life]

Ok exactly what was said in regard to the gun thing? ...I'm just curious because 2A rights is my #1 issue and what got me hooked on RP in the first place.

By reading this whole thread I think I have prepared myself for the answer to my above question.

I don't think I could watch the whole debate without exploding, so thats why I asked.

[Starks]

YES, having the gov't sticking its nose in healthcare in ANY way is problematic IMO.

What should be done to address the concerns of millions of uninsured? IMO, NOTHING.

Why?

This isn't something that will correct itself over time or through cutting back the scope of government. We can't just condemn millions of tax paying Americans like that.

I believe that we cannot claim our health system is supreme when there are so many uninsured. Things are not fine right now. It's not just middle-class Americans and the elderly, it's also CHILDREN. What about the children? Surely they deserve insurance.

[MsDoodahs]

I agree that there each American should have a degree of personal responsibility when dealing with health, but isn't it kind of callous to tell a stranger or family member that doesn't have or can't afford health insurance, that they don't deserve it?

a "DEGREE" of personal responsibility?

WTF is THAT?

lol.

Each american should HAVE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY when dealing with their personal healthcare decisions, PERIOD. There is no "let them have a DEGREE of personal responsibility" IMO. There is only LET THEM HAVE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Callous? Is that all you got? lol...

DESERVE has not a damned thing to do with it.

Healthcare is NOT a right. It is a PRIVELEDGE.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Why?

This isn't something that will correct itself over time or through cutting back the scope of government. We can't just condemn millions of tax paying Americans like that.

I believe that we cannot claim our health system is supreme when there are so many uninsured. Things are not fine right now. It's not just middle-class Americans and the elderly, it's also CHILDREN. What about the children? Surely they deserve insurance.

Dr. Paul has already stated that he will bring the troops home and will create a transitional program. If you understood Austrian Economics, then you'd know that what we currently have is not a free market... what did we do BEFORE we had this current system? Everyone was treated, why is that? lol it sure as hell wasn't socialized medicine!

Socializing medicine is an emotional response to a free market question.

[aravoth]

Why?

This isn't something that will correct itself over time or through cutting back the scope of government. We can't just condemn millions of tax paying Americans like that.

I believe that we cannot claim our health system is supreme when there are so many uninsured. Things are not fine right now. It's not just middle-class Americans and the elderly, it's also CHILDREN. What about the children? Surely they deserve insurance.

If there parents wern't forced to pay over 50% of thier incomes to the federal goverment to pay for everyone else, then they might just have a shot at taking care of thier own kids.

Just look at the numbers, the welfare state crap is going to bankrupt us all. That not fear mongering either, it's simple numbers. We don't need the government to do everything for us.

[LibertyEagle]

YES, having the gov't sticking its nose in healthcare in ANY way is problematic IMO.

What should be done to address the concerns of millions of uninsured? IMO, NOTHING.

Well, we do have a problem with the current state of our health care. For example, if you are underinsured or uninsured, the amount you are charged, far exceeds what that same health provider receives, IF the person is insured. Let me explain. I remember when I had knee surgery some time back. The doctor submitted 3K for the procedure; however, the agreed upon rate with the insurance co. was 900, so he received that amount. If someone went to that same doctor, who did not have health insurance, or had bad health insurance, that person would be charged 3K. It is also my understanding that the doctor would not be allowed to reduce his fee for this person, or he would be in breach of contract with the insurance company.

The very same thing applies in a big way with hospitals. They rape you if you do not have excellent health insurance. I have no problem with paying them the same amount they would have received from an insurance company, but for them to charge 3-5 times the amount to an uninsured/underinsured person should be CRIMINAL.

60 Minutes actually ran a segment about just this thing, last year.

[Starks]

Ok exactly what was said in regard to the gun thing? ...I'm just curious because 2A rights is my #1 issue and what got me hooked on RP in the first place.

By reading this whole thread I think I have prepared myself for the answer to my above question.

I don't think I could watch the whole debate without exploding, so thats why I asked.

I believe that the 2A and gun control laws can co-exist. Gun control laws are necessary to keep firearms under control and that they are sold only to those that are responsible enough to use them properly.

The last thing we need is the abolition of all gun control and let every Tom, Dick, and Harry buy a handgun and an assault weapon at Wal-Mart with no questions asked.

I believe that every American (of age) should be able to purchase a gun, yet it is also in the best interest of the American public that weapon sales can be traced and done responsibly.

[BLS]

That's no way to approach a fellow RP supporter. :(

Is it??

[MozoVote]

I do think there can be some rationale for a *community* (maybe at the county level) to pool together some funding to help *citizens* with health care bills due to *unavoidable* circumstances. Like a parent of a child with cerebral palsey or something, who may benefit greatly be having access to assistance. But this does not need to be FEDERAL. And it does not need to be UNIVERSAL.

The problem with a big fat universal health care system is that it will become slow and inefficient and scare out all the high quality medical professionals into the private sector. You'll end up with a two tier medical system, kind of like our public schools. Those who can afford to avoid the system, will do so.

[Starks]

Is it??

I'm not exactly a supporter, I'm curious about and half-rooting for RP.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I believe that the 2A and gun control laws can co-exist. Gun control laws are necessary to keep firearms under control and that they are sold only to those that are responsible enough to use them properly.

The last thing we need is the abolition of all gun control and let every Tom, Dick, and Harry buy a handgun and an assault weapon at Wal-Mart with no questions asked.

I believe that every American (of age) should be able to purchase a gun, yet it is also in the best interest of the American public that weapon sales can be traced and done responsibly.

If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. If I want to walk around with an RPG, why not? That's what freedom is all about.

[MsDoodahs]

Why?

This isn't something that will correct itself over time or through cutting back the scope of government. We can't just condemn millions of tax paying Americans like that.

I believe that we cannot claim our health system is supreme when there are so many uninsured. Things are not fine right now. It's not just middle-class Americans and the elderly, it's also CHILDREN. What about the children? Surely they deserve insurance.


AAAAAAACCKKKKKK!!

It's for the CHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLDRRRRENNNNN!!!!

<deep breath>

It isn't something that requires correction by the state. The truly poor would be taken care of BY CHARITIES. As Joseph has correctly pointed out, if the free market were ALLOWED to function in the area of healthcare, prices would COME DOWN not GO UP.

As Aravoth has correctly pointed out, elimination of the income tax would free up mucho funds for families - then they could AFFORD insurance.

[aravoth]

I believe that the 2A and gun control laws can co-exist. Gun control laws are necessary to keep firearms under control and that they are sold only to those that are responsible enough to use them properly.

The last thing we need is the abolition of all gun control and let every Tom, Dick, and Harry buy a handgun and an assault weapon at Wal-Mart with no questions asked.

I believe that every American (of age) should be able to purchase a gun, yet it is also in the best interest of the American public that weapon sales can be traced and done responsibly.

I hate to break it to you Starks, but tom dick and harry have been buying guns at more places than just wal-mart for a long time. And most of them are more responsible with thier firearms than any policemen you'll ever meet. I fail to see how tracking and registration makes anyone safer.

[SeanEdwards]

I believe that the 2A and gun control laws can co-exist. Gun control laws are necessary to keep firearms under control and that they are sold only to those that are responsible enough to use them properly.

The last thing we need is the abolition of all gun control and let every Tom, Dick, and Harry buy a handgun and an assault weapon at Wal-Mart with no questions asked.

I believe that every American (of age) should be able to purchase a gun, yet it is also in the best interest of the American public that weapon sales can be traced and done responsibly.

I agree. The founders never imagined that people would seriously argue that mentally deranged criminals should have an unfettered right to gun ownership.

However: I think that determination should be up to a jury, and not a politician, judge, or psychiatrist.

[LibertyEagle]

I believe that the 2A and gun control laws can co-exist. Gun control laws are necessary to keep firearms under control and that they are sold only to those that are responsible enough to use them properly.

The last thing we need is the abolition of all gun control and let every Tom, Dick, and Harry buy a handgun and an assault weapon at Wal-Mart with no questions asked.

I believe that every American (of age) should be able to purchase a gun, yet it is also in the best interest of the American public that weapon sales can be traced and done responsibly.

I totally disagree with you. Listen dude, do you understand why our Founders wrote the 2nd amendment? Seriously. If you did, you would understand why it is more than foolish to handover your liberty to the federal government so they can track and trace you.

Gun registration does not stop crime. It's only the law abiding citizens who would do this. Criminals would be the only ones who would not own registered guns.

[SWATH]

I believe that the 2A and gun control laws can co-exist. Gun control laws are necessary to keep firearms under control and that they are sold only to those that are responsible enough to use them properly.

The last thing we need is the abolition of all gun control and let every Tom, Dick, and Harry buy a handgun and an assault weapon at Wal-Mart with no questions asked.

I believe that every American (of age) should be able to purchase a gun, yet it is also in the best interest of the American public that weapon sales can be traced and done responsibly.

The 2A and gun control can in no way co-exist. You either have the right or you don't. The government either has the power to regulate it or it does not. In the case of guns, it does not.

Here is a recently published Harvard study on gun control:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

[LibertyEagle]

I agree. The founders never imagined that people would seriously argue that mentally deranged criminals should have an unfettered right to gun ownership.

Are you talking about Bush and Cheney, or whom?

[aravoth]

I agree. The founders never imagined that people would seriously argue that mentally deranged criminals should have an unfettered right to gun ownership.

However: I think that determination should be up to a jury, and not a politician, judge, or psychiatrist.

That descision is already up to a court.

[Starks]

I do think there can be some rationale for a *community* (maybe at the county level) to pool together some funding to help *citizens* with health care bills due to *unavoidable* circumstances. Like a parent of a child with cerebral palsey or something, who may benefit greatly be having access to assistance. But this does not need to be FEDERAL. And it does not need to be UNIVERSAL.

The problem with a big fat universal health care system is that it will become slow and inefficient and scare out all the high quality medical professionals into the private sector. You'll end up with a two tier medical system, kind of like our public schools. Those who can afford to avoid the system, will do so.

Agreed. We should not delude ourselves into thinking that our health care system is perfect.

I've heard from numerous posters here about things that might stimulate an improvement of our health care system without even directly touching it or raising taxes. I'd like some elaboration as to how this can be done.

I'm just a bit skeptic as to how things will magically improve if we cut back on other areas of government. I'm sure there is a correlation somewhere, I just need someone to point it out. Does less taxes automatically correspond with more people being able to receive insurance? I'm sure it does, but what about the quality of the health care being received? It's shitty in some parts of the nation.

[MsDoodahs]

I'm not exactly a supporter

I'd never in a million years have guessed. ;)

[SeanEdwards]

Are you talking about Bush and Cheney, or whom?

If a proper jury of their peers determines them to be unfit as gun owners then they should lose their 2nd amendment rights.

Just as we allow a jury to revoke other rights.

Seriously, Washington would have laughed at this notion that drooling half-wit felons have inalienable rights to machine guns. It's totally absurd.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

If a proper jury of their peers determines them to be unfit as gun owners then they should lose their 2nd amendment rights.

Just as we allow a jury to revoke other rights.

Seriously, Washington would have laughed at this notion that drooling half-wit felons have inalienable rights to machine guns. It's totally absurd.

yes.. government should have no say, only private land owners "no guns on my property" <---example I am anticipating the day I can purchase an RPG and a tank :cool:

[MsDoodahs]

Agreed. We should not delude ourselves into thinking that our health care system is perfect.

I've heard from numerous posters here about things that might stimulate an improvement of our health care system without even directly touching it or raising taxes. I'd like some elaboration as to how this can be done.

I'm just a bit skeptic as to how things will magically improve if we cut back on other areas of government. I'm sure there is a correlation somewhere, I just need someone to point it out. Does less taxes automatically correspond with more people being able to receive insurance? I'm sure it does, but what about the quality of the health care being received? It's shitty in some parts of the nation.

Which parts of the nation?

Define "shitty." Are you referring to the providers?