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View Full Version : Forget the Libertarian Party, we should start our own.




AggieforPaul
01-10-2008, 03:44 PM
Just as I hate the Republican Party has fallen to the Dominion Wing and the neo-cons, I'm afraid that after Ron Paul passed, the LP would go back to being pro-abortion, pro illegal immigration, pro NAFTA/GATT/WTO and maybe even pro 9/11 truth (remember, Aaron Russo almost won the party nomination).

MayTheRonBeWithYou
01-10-2008, 03:49 PM
Right on! We need to build a party for the future, and we need to let Ron run in the general election this year. He's 72 years old and this will be his last chance.

My suggestion is: The Liberty Party.

Others have suggested the Revolution Party or the Revolutionary Party or the Feeedom Party.

constituent
01-10-2008, 03:51 PM
the life party!

i've been working on a founding document for awhile. thought it was a worthless waste of my time, but who knows.

glad to see others are thinking along these lines as well.

RPinSEAZ
01-10-2008, 03:52 PM
Ron shouldn't have to leave the Republican Party. All the douchebags that hi-jacked it should.

stevedasbach
01-10-2008, 04:03 PM
You have no idea how difficult it is to start a new party, especially since McCain-Feingold.

Platforms are determined by delegates in convention. Conventions can and do change platforms. For example, the LP dumped most of its old platform last convention -- I anticipate that a new platform will be adopted in May.

The key is the LP's Statement of Principles, which is very difficult to amend. The platform must be consistent with the Statement of Principles. Here it is:

Statement of Principles

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of individuals and the fruits of their labor. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruits of their labor without their consent.

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist, they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely, (1) the right to life -- accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; (2) the right to liberty of speech and action -- accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and press, as well as government censorship in any form; and (3) the right to property -- accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud, and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free by government to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of individual rights, is the free market.

Jesubub
01-10-2008, 04:05 PM
Non-Intervention Party

Animalm0ther3
01-10-2008, 04:26 PM
I think he would fit well in the Constitution Party.

newmedia4ron
01-10-2008, 04:37 PM
I think we we should become county chairs and precinct chairs and take over the GOP. Lets also pour our money into the Ron Paul republicans (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=85401) running for congress.

Lets just push the neocons right out of the GOP.

We'd have to compete with FOUR parties if we started our own

GOP
Dems
Libertarian Party
Const Party

I say we take back the GOP and rename it "Barry Goldwater lives bitches!" Party.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
01-10-2008, 04:42 PM
No, I am beginning to think that starting a new party is the only way. Ron can run independent this time, like Perot did in 1992, and then found the party after that.

Perot could have won in 1992 if he did not drop out. He still got nearly 20 million votes. Ron could do even better.

Madison
01-10-2008, 04:49 PM
Ron shouldn't have to leave the Republican Party. All the douchebags that hi-jacked it should.

I concur. Seizing control of the GOP from within is the best way to deliver mass rwnage.

ThePieSwindler
01-10-2008, 05:01 PM
A fellow named Carl S Milstead, who happens to be a Ron Paul supporter, has a website called holisticpolitics.org, in which he talks about how there is potentially a very large niche for a moderate left-libertarian party (left-libertarian as in, uses market based arguements for equality, social welfare, etc, but with resolving those through free association as an actual stressed ideal)

He was an LP activist for a decade and a member for 25 years, so he is very knowledgable on the failings (and successes) of the LP (mainly its purism that often turns many off, and its often radical advicacy of doing away with government, without any positive, moderate transitions, how it tries to indoctrinate rather than educate, and how it tries to run a high-overhead national campaign without the local support structures to build up a success and credibility). He already has alot of good ideas, bare-bones plans and strategy, and has some very good ideas about how to get a movement going. Of course, the current "freedom movement" behind Ron Paul is some momentum and some "low hanging fruit" that such a new party could grab.

Third party politics is hard because third parties rarely if ever approach electoral politics in the right way, but it is theoretically possible if done properly, even with the rigid laws in place. Milstead explains this really well. Here are his websites:

Business Plan for a New Party (http://www.quiz2d.com/essays/plan/challenges/index.php)

http://www.holisticpolitics.org/

For anyone seriously interested in this possibility, read some of what his site has to offer. He has some good ideas, some of which i dont necessarily agree with politically, but his approach is very pragmatic, big-tent, yet not "centrist" or "unprincipled". Note, that when he says "left" and "egalitarianism", he does not mean forced collectivism and is essentially a free marketer to the core, but chooses to focus it in a different direction than is traditionally done. If nothing else, he has a very good plan for a new startup party, is a Ron Paul supporter, and has actively talked about starting a new party based off of the current movement, which i think is easily a big enough pool to draw a startup-base from.

Note: this is of course, resorted to only if Paul doesn't win the nomination. I am in it till the end with Dr. Paul, and have been working harder every day to get the word out as much as possible!

MayTheRonBeWithYou
01-10-2008, 05:02 PM
I concur. Seizing control of the GOP from within is the best way to deliver mass rwnage.


uh, yeah, that aint gonna happen. not in Ron's lifetime anyway. why hold ourselves hostage to this failed, corrupt two-party system?

CelestialRender
01-10-2008, 05:14 PM
GOP is the best way.

If another party were to be organized, it should be the Revolution Party.

However; that's a bit ridiculous....we can manage an (R) takeover, and we could most certainly take over (L) if needed.

I saw the suggestion of (C), but you must remember how large a chunk of Dr Paul's support comes from non-theistic people. Few of them would back a party so heavily tied to religion.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
01-10-2008, 05:15 PM
GOP is the best way.

Dead wrong.



If another party were to be organized, it should be the Revolution Party.


Getting closer.

Voluntaryist
01-10-2008, 05:16 PM
Right on! We need to build a party for the future, and we need to let Ron run in the general election this year. He's 72 years old and this will be his last chance.

My suggestion is: The Liberty Party.

Others have suggested the Revolution Party or the Revolutionary Party or the Feeedom Party.

I like Liberty Party and Freedom Party. But especially Liberty Party.

Peppy690
01-10-2008, 05:19 PM
I vote Freedom Party... the (L) is taken

newmedia4ron
01-10-2008, 05:24 PM
its not that hard to take over you local gop

fill all the vacant precincts

once we become friends with the local republicans they will take our arguments more seriously

respect is earned

starting a new party is dumb really
we fit the original gop platform

loupeznik
01-10-2008, 05:32 PM
I am pro-choice. I am sticking with the LP when they are a voting choice.

John P Slevin
01-10-2008, 05:37 PM
I am pro-choice. I am sticking with the LP when they are a voting choice.

Those who propose to form a new party better get started about 2 years ago; then you actually would have had a chance to get RP on the ballot in all 50 states.

Oh, and come up with a very quick few to many million bucks...you are going to need 3 million minimum if everything breaks your way.

Or, take the ballot access offered by the LP and/or others who already have made the investment, know the score, etc.

Going with one or more third party nominations, plus opting to qualify as an independent in states which make ballot access easier for independents, is the only logical way to go about putting Ron Paul on the ballot in the event he does not obtain the R nomination.

Taking over the GOP? Well, gooooood luck.

jenninlouisiana
01-10-2008, 05:46 PM
Ron shouldn't have to leave the Republican Party. All the douchebags that hi-jacked it should.

Totally agree.

mconder
01-10-2008, 05:48 PM
I agree, but not until Ron Paul's campaign has had every opportunity for success. Once we know it's a lost caused...that will be the time.

DrNoZone
01-10-2008, 05:49 PM
A fellow named Carl S Milstead, who happens to be a Ron Paul supporter, has a website called holisticpolitics.org, in which he talks about how there is potentially a very large niche for a moderate left-libertarian party (left-libertarian as in, uses market based arguements for equality, social welfare, etc, but with resolving those through free association as an actual stressed ideal)

He was an LP activist for a decade and a member for 25 years, so he is very knowledgable on the failings (and successes) of the LP (mainly its purism that often turns many off, and its often radical advicacy of doing away with government, without any positive, moderate transitions, how it tries to indoctrinate rather than educate, and how it tries to run a high-overhead national campaign without the local support structures to build up a success and credibility). He already has alot of good ideas, bare-bones plans and strategy, and has some very good ideas about how to get a movement going. Of course, the current "freedom movement" behind Ron Paul is some momentum and some "low hanging fruit" that such a new party could grab.

Third party politics is hard because third parties rarely if ever approach electoral politics in the right way, but it is theoretically possible if done properly, even with the rigid laws in place. Milstead explains this really well. Here are his websites:

Business Plan for a New Party (http://www.quiz2d.com/essays/plan/challenges/index.php)

http://www.holisticpolitics.org/

For anyone seriously interested in this possibility, read some of what his site has to offer. He has some good ideas, some of which i dont necessarily agree with politically, but his approach is very pragmatic, big-tent, yet not "centrist" or "unprincipled". Note, that when he says "left" and "egalitarianism", he does not mean forced collectivism and is essentially a free marketer to the core, but chooses to focus it in a different direction than is traditionally done. If nothing else, he has a very good plan for a new startup party, is a Ron Paul supporter, and has actively talked about starting a new party based off of the current movement, which i think is easily a big enough pool to draw a startup-base from.

Note: this is of course, resorted to only if Paul doesn't win the nomination. I am in it till the end with Dr. Paul, and have been working harder every day to get the word out as much as possible!

Glad you liked what you found at HP. :D

rpfreedom08
01-10-2008, 05:52 PM
didn't read the whole thread so it might have already been said but I think the absolute best thing we can do is just keep the Ron Paul Republican thing going. Give the American public a few more years of this crap and they will start seeing the value of a Ron Paul Republican candidate. We know those other parties never get nominated so the best thing to do is just keep the conservative/libertarian republican alive.

crazyfingers
01-10-2008, 05:52 PM
Is anyone here actually interested in changing the direction of this country? Because as far as I can see, the only realistic way of doing so is by working within the existing system (primarily the GOP). We need to build on the momentum within the revolution to get liberty lovers everywhere elected to statehouses across America, and then get those same people to run for Congress and eventually the Senate. Even if Ron wins he can not be the be all and end all of the movement - we've strayed much too far for one person or even one hundred people to get us back to where we need to be.
As the saying goes, "Rome wasn't built in a day"... we need dedicated young people who are willing to start at the bottom and work their way up through the system. Personally, I'm planning on being part of the solution rather than just allowing myself to be marginalized. I hope thousands join me.

mdh
01-10-2008, 05:53 PM
Just as I hate the Republican Party has fallen to the Dominion Wing and the neo-cons, I'm afraid that after Ron Paul passed, the LP would go back to being pro-abortion, pro illegal immigration, pro NAFTA/GATT/WTO and maybe even pro 9/11 truth (remember, Aaron Russo almost won the party nomination).

The LP is and always has been just about split on abortion. As far as immigration, a lot of folks feel an open border is the way to go. This comes down to the fact that most of us are anarchists. As long as government exists, we must have secure borders. To say otherwise is to place cart before horse. As far as I know, the LP has always been free market and never supported trade treaties that assail freedom.

The LP is a great way to put great people in office when one of the two big parties and all of the inherent advantages therein are not useable.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
01-10-2008, 05:54 PM
It's stupid to say "The only way we can change the country is to stay in this broken, corrupt two-party system."

We can ride this GOP as far as it will take us, (and we will know that by Feb 5th), but we should all be thinking about a third party run if Ron does not secure the GOP nod.

Right now, it seems like the best bet would be an independent run in 08, and then forming a new party after that.

FrankRep
01-10-2008, 05:57 PM
The Freedom Party?

adpierce
01-10-2008, 06:02 PM
its not that hard to take over you local gop

fill all the vacant precincts

once we become friends with the local republicans they will take our arguments more seriously

respect is earned

starting a new party is dumb really
we fit the original gop platform

bumping this comment