Stealing the Obama vote?

[PimpBlimp]

NoPants' Version - Final Edition
http://www.enzain.com/RonPaul/Obama-Paul(MichiganAd)_web.jpg (http://www.enzain.com/RonPaul/Obama-Paul(MichiganAd)BW.jpg)

THE 2 ADS BELOW ARE NOT FINAL COPIES - PLEASE PROOFREAD

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/barrackvsron.jpg

Edit:New version, less hostile towards Obama

Michigan Version
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/barrackvsronmichigan.jpg

[4RP08inKCMO]

This is excellent. I'm using it.

[nate895]

Don't use it, it will lose votes on the GOP side, which are more valuable come later states.

[PimpBlimp]

Don't use it, it will lose votes on the GOP side, which are more valuable come later states.

It could make a good flier to convert your democratic friends. Or possibly stick in a liberal newspaper.

[Unspun]

Remember this will only work in open primary states like Michigan. Using it elsewhere is a waste of time and effort. Good work though.

[RSLudlum]

ahhh shizzle!!! Just the tool i've been waiting for... I've been making it a point to get some of the Students for Ron Paul slimjims into the hands of Obama supporters.... See a Bo-Boma sticker in the parking lot gets a slim jim,,, a car infront of me at a stop light they get handed one too :D

This is just another weapon to add to the arsenal!!

[makrothymia]

Pimpblimp...but, i don't know about the 3rd point...reads like a conspiracy theory/bias. As a reader, I would question who owns Judicial Watch List. If you could make another point based on voting record, I think it would remove the "bad taste" so to speak.


if you look under grassroots projects...a couple of us have sent out emails for someone to create a website, or youtube footage- a comparison of philosophies.

I've emailed Lymon, and a couple of youtube people....
Maybe an idea for you if you're tech savvy...

[Eponym_mi]

Don't use it until it has been proof-read throughly. It has misspellings and grammar problems.

[literatim]

Pointless using it in Michigian. I don't even think Obama is on the ballot. All you need to do is inform them of delegates being stripped in Michigan and tell them to vote Ron Paul instead.

[Austin]

I will give Obama credit, he did stand up against some of the things in the reauthorization in the Patriot Act. He should have voted against it altogether, but if you read his speech, it's decent.

[makrothymia]

I post a response to the ad on another thread, but just in case. The 3rd point reads bias/conspiracy.
As a reader, I would question, "Well, who owns the Judicial Watch." I think straight voting record, or flip-flop information would be balanced.

[PimpBlimp]

Pimpblimp...but, i don't know about the 3rd point...reads like a conspiracy theory/bias. As a reader, I would question who owns Judicial Watch List. If you could make another point based on voting record, I think it would remove the "bad taste" so to speak.


if you look under grassroots projects...a couple of us have sent out emails for someone to create a website, or youtube footage- a comparison of philosophies.

I've emailed Lymon, and a couple of youtube people....
Maybe an idea for you if you're tech savvy...

Judicial Watch is a pretty sound organization
http://www.judicialwatch.org/judicial-watch-announces-list-washington-s-ten-most-wanted-corrupt-politicians-2007

I think a website devoted to showing Obama supporters the light would be a worthy undertaking. I may take you up on that :D

[NoPants]

It's not exactly balanced. In a situation like this you don't really want to show the differences, rather the similarities. We don't need to "steal" these votes. The Dems. can't vote (or if they do it won't count) in Michigan. By saying it isn't balanced I mean that we're saying different things in the comparisons.

Comparison 1

This is pretty good because it takes an idea that Obama voters already like (he kind of eludes to bringing troops home eventually) and showing that Paul also wants to bring them home, even sooner.

Comparison 2

I think we could make a bigger impact here with a tax example. As stated on Obama's website's, "Provide a Tax Cut for Working Families", "Simplify Tax Filings for Middle Class Americans" and then compare that to Paul's plan that would completely eliminate all federal taxes for American families. We want to draw attention to how they are alike and specifically point out Paul's even stronger stance and more effective stance on the issue.

Obama source: h ttp://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#tax-relief

Comparison 3

This could be an economy issue pointing out some generalization between they both want to bring stability to the current crisis we're in.

They also have similar stances on keeping the internet free and unregulated. This would hit hard with younger voters too.

They both believe in securing our borders to reduce immigration problems. Many of the details are different but the goal is the same.


Overall it's a great idea. Keep in mind the idea of drawing connections between Obama and Paul because we don't have to convert these voters since they can't actually weigh in for the democrats any way. We just need to make it easy enough for them to feel good about voting for a republican with similar views to their own candidate. It's likely to cause them to really start to look into Dr. Paul and become another dedicated supporter.

[PimpBlimp]

Good points NoPants ^

I will work on refining the the original copy.

[Rhys]

..

[makrothymia]

Whether or not you change it, thanks for letting me know you understood what I meant...Sometimes, I get too excited, and things are misconstrued....

If I can, I might send it over to some meetups and pass it on...

[4RP08inKCMO]

Don't use it, it will lose votes on the GOP side, which are more valuable come later states.

Obviously it is meant to be used on Obama supporters...not the GOP.

[Thrice]

You'd win a lot more support from Obama folks (who would otherwise vote for him if they could) by showing similarities between the two candidates (anti-war, feel free to emphasize that he wants to bring home the troops immediately, etc) than doing so while simultaneously criticizing Obama. It really depends on whether you're trying to entice Obama supporters to vote for Paul in MI solely because of the situation or not.

[quantized]

Useless. i have many college friends rooting for Obama now and they refused to even consider Ron Paul because they cannot see Ron winning this nomination. They rather use their votes to save the country from Hitlery. On the contrary, I have better luck with Hillary people.

[buffalokid777]

Pimpblimp...but, i don't know about the 3rd point...reads like a conspiracy theory/bias. As a reader, I would question who owns Judicial Watch List. If you could make another point based on voting record, I think it would remove the "bad taste" so to speak.


if you look under grassroots projects...a couple of us have sent out emails for someone to create a website, or youtube footage- a comparison of philosophies.

I've emailed Lymon, and a couple of youtube people....
Maybe an idea for you if you're tech savvy...

I agree point three is not a good one though not conspiaratorial.

A better point for 3 is the special interest money Obama has been taking along with Hillary from the banking industry.

Ron Paul has taken no special interest money unlike obama, that is why he is the only real candidate for change.

I also agree with a different poster, this ad is only good for open primary states, worthless in closed primaries.

[peznex]

Useless. i have many college friends rooting for Obama now and they refused to even consider Ron Paul because they cannot see Ron winning this nomination. They rather use their votes to save the country from Hitlery. On the contrary, I have better luck with Hillary people.
You need to tell your YO'mama rooting college friends that the best person to win against Hitlery would actually be Ron Paul in the long run:D

If you need to explain it further then tell them that their way of thinking is the exact reason why. Think about how many Obama people do not like Clinton and think about if all those Obama people were added to the Republican side for Ron Paul. She would not have a chance because NO Republican would vote Clinton but alot of Democrats would vote Ron Paul over HER.;)

[PimpBlimp]

I updated the original to fix spelling and grammar issues. I also made a version for Michigan only. Let me know if the final line is appropriate for the situation up there.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/barrackvsronmichigan.jpg

Tomorrow I will work on a less attack and more comparison flier for Obama and Paul. Might be the best way to go about this.

[quantized]

You need to tell your YO'mama rooting college friends that the best person to win against Hitlery would actually be Ron Paul in the long run:D

That is not convincing enough. You have to understand their mindset. The Obama supporters i know are mostly anti-Hill at the core of their heart. If they have a chance to crush her earlier during the nomination stage, they will not give it up. They are not dumb to wait for a Ron Paul nomination... which all pundits will tell you in the face that this is not possible.

Furthermore, i do not have the time and energy to debate with them over this. The time can be more efficiently used in converting people who are now on the fence. And Hillary people are easy to switch over too.. provided they are not too deep into the Hillaries groupies thing.

[buffalokid777]

I like it, but i would hesitate to add that Ron Paul would pull ALL troops from ALL countries.

Why? Because while we think its a good idea, the general public might be inclined to think that pulling out of ALL countries might be bad for American security. If we had ALL our Military forces here and were surprise attacked, we could have significant force loss. If we still had a few other bases elsewhere, after the inital attack those forces abroad could be an effective response attack to the aggressors.

Pulling out from Iraq now, and a reduced military presence in the world would be much better not only for your ad but for the RP campaign in general. I agree we dont need 700 bases, but saying we need 0 will put off too many security types. Out of Iraq now and reduced bases around the world will pull us in more voters.

Also i'm still gonna say Judicial watch is not a known commodity outside the net. I really think special interest money is the point to focus on on point 3. People are sick of special interests running the political process.....this is the message to capatalize on in point 3.

Ron Paul has taken NO special interest money.....he is not for sale like Obama and Hillary.

[Joe3113]

I'm working on this people http://ObamaVPaul.com :) Still more work needed but should be done soon

[bolidew]

really good.

[buffalokid777]

I'm working on this people http://ObamaVPaul.com :) Still more work needed but should be done soon

I looked at your ad, and if your trying to steal Obama voters, you need to ONLY consider the issues that matter to his demographic.

The dems are mostly a pro gun control bunch, so the right to bear arms part should be omitted first if you are going after Obama voters.

Taxation Policy should also be edited. It is too vague to the average dem or dem leaning independent.

A better way to go is Obama - will increase taxes and enlarge the government.

Ron Paul will lower taxes by reducing government.

Foreign policy, Omit council on foreign relations stuff....

Obama is NOT a CFR member his wife is....also this will not get his voters in michigan to come to us as most of them are ingnorant to what the CFR is anyway.

The other two points are good though. As mentioned above, on the RP side instead of saying bring ALL troops home, instead say "Will reduce the number of bases around the world saving taxpayers money." thats much better, All is such an absolute word, reduce is much better.

That's my opinions on this ad.

[Mithridates]

Pointless using it in Michigian. I don't even think Obama is on the ballot. All you need to do is inform them of delegates being stripped in Michigan and tell them to vote Ron Paul instead.

Very true. There's no point in even mentioning Obama except to say that they can't vote for him anyway.

Disparaging their candidate is a good way to turn people off from the idea.

[davidhperry]

I'm NOT an expert at spelling but shouldn't it be: "Man of Principle"

[newmedia4ron]

Don't Use That!
Don't let them think this could be betraying their Candidate or Party.
Make the young people feel like they are taking A Stand Against the Iraq War and the GOP.

Literature Contrasting the Positions on War And Civil Liberties between the Gop Candidates would be much more effective.

[alexa doherty]

DON'T USE THAT PIC FOR OBAMA. They really put a ton of makeup on the guy and polished him up. Find one of his normal crappy ones where he looks angry or bewildered and use that instead!

[american empire]

NO NO N O ...........whoa guys....this isnt right........I mean the flyer
we are NOT making the Obama voters vote for us b/c they will switch sides.....that will never happen.....make them understand that we are the only ones against the GOP establishment and want to get the troops out of Iraq......compare him to the GOP guys b/c they we know how much they detest them.....

make a flyer with the similarities b/w Ron and Obama...they will not like you dissing Obama....Rememeber: we don't want them to change sides we just want their vote....If they change in the process ....then great....

also you could make a flyer with Ron vs the neocon position.....tell them since they cant vote for their guy wouldn't they want to stick it to the GOP establishment by voting for Ron Paul.....would they not like to upset Romney , Huckabee and Mccaine who want us in Iraq by voting for our guy.....get sympathy votes by saying Ron got excluded from Fox debates....they already hate fox so that should be a no brainer....praise their guy and win them over

[american empire]

PLEASE DON'T USE THIS!!!!...read my message above or NEWMEDIa4RON post.....DO NOT make them vote against Obama...we need their votes not their hearts.....we can win those later....please im begging you ....this will be a blunder.......

[Misesean]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/barrackvsronmichigan.jpg

Under "end the Iraq war" it says "no timetables for withdraw" - should be "withdrawal"
"Man of principal" should be "man of principle"
There's no such thing as "very unique" :)
"In his 20 years serving the US Congress" should probably be "in his 20 years serving in the US Congress"
Democrat/ic should be capitalized in the "What if I told you" text on the bottom.
I think "a vote for ending the war and restoring freedom" would be better as "a vote to end the war and restore freedom"

[thegr8drronpaul]

I agree with 'American Empire'. We want to make him stand out against the other Reps. Right now we're lumped together with guys that Dems despise, so we need Paul to contrast from them

[Joe3113]

I looked at your ad, and if your trying to steal Obama voters, you need to ONLY consider the issues that matter to his demographic.

The dems are mostly a pro gun control bunch, so the right to bear arms part should be omitted first if you are going after Obama voters.

Taxation Policy should also be edited. It is too vague to the average dem or dem leaning independent.

A better way to go is Obama - will increase taxes and enlarge the government.

Ron Paul will lower taxes by reducing government.

Foreign policy, Omit council on foreign relations stuff....

Obama is NOT a CFR member his wife is....also this will not get his voters in michigan to come to us as most of them are ingnorant to what the CFR is anyway.

The other two points are good though. As mentioned above, on the RP side instead of saying bring ALL troops home, instead say "Will reduce the number of bases around the world saving taxpayers money." thats much better, All is such an absolute word, reduce is much better.

That's my opinions on this ad.

Thanks

[HazardPerry]

If you do run this or post it somewhere, for God's sake Ron Paul is a man of PRINCIPLE not PRINCIPAL

[losinglife]

haha someone better photoshop that picture of obama.. make him all scuuuurry lookin

you know like this pic of Ghouliani
http://cache.wonkette.com/assets/resources/2007/10/Rudy_Ghouliani.jpg

[Mithridates]

PLEASE DON'T USE THIS!!!!...read my message above or NEWMEDIa4RON post.....DO NOT make them vote against Obama...we need their votes not their hearts.....we can win those later....please im begging you ....this will be a blunder.......

Exactly. I see a lot of people are on the same page as me on this (good).


Another way to imagine it is if Ron Paul supporters had a situation where the GOP had withdrawn in full from a primary but they could cast votes for Democrats. Then it might be fun to go for Kucinich since he and Ron Paul get along and it would help to avoid Hillary as president.

Now imagine somebody from the Democrat side puts up a poster that says "This is why Ron Paul sucks and Kucinich is awesome!"

Who would go for that? Who's going to say "Oh yeah, Ron Paul sucks! I think I'll vote for Kucinich!" What's the point of trashing him in the first place? It's useless.

[NoPants]

i have many college friends rooting for Obama now and they refused to even consider Ron Paul because they cannot see Ron winning this nomination.

People need to learn how to counter this type of, "I only vote for 'viable' candidates" thinking. I'm not great at convincing others to see my side of things like that car salesman Huckelberry who can put a spin on a turd, but this should be easy.

When people say things like "I don't want to vote for him because I don't think he can win" you've got to respond to that. As my brother points out that is a self fulfilling prophecy. It's like saying, "I'd rather vote for someone I don't believe in because I'd rather be on the winning team." No one has to say who they voted for, it's anonymous, so no one will know if you picked the winner or not, and since it's not a casino, the goal should be to choose the person you believe in. This is a primary, now is the time to vote for the person you don't think will win! America didn't get it's independence by running with the pack and doing the same thing everyone else did. We are here today because of the few who had the courage to stand up for what they believe in and for others not to do the same is a disgrace to the memory of our founders. Every American MUST vote their conscience!

I think responding with ideas to that effect can be helpful.

[pcosmar]

Posted in the Detroit Free Press forum, under a ? for Obama supporters.


For those that support Obama,
The Democrat Party has pull ALL the delegates from Michigan.
Your vote in the primaries will mean NOTHING. But wait,
Give your vote to Ron Paul.
He is the ONLY Republican that wants to End the war.
He wants to bring our troops home now.
He has opposed the Patriot Act, and supports Civil Liberty.
The GOP hates him. Send a message.
Make your vote count, your voice heard.
Vote Ron Paul in the Primary.

[PimpBlimp]

I just finished a new version that is less hostile towards Obama, please critique and spell check.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/barrackvsronmichigan.jpg

[jdmetz]

I just finished a new version that is less hostile towards Obama, please critique and spell check.
I think an ad like this is great if the general election comes down to Obama vs. Paul, or in other states. In MI, though, right now we just want Obama supporters to vote for Paul. I don't care if they still prefer Obama at this point - they can't vote for him.

I think our best chance for getting the most Obama supporters is to bill Ron Paul as the best choice available to them at this point (since Obama isn't). I fear that trying to convert them will turn some away who otherwise would vote for Paul as their next best choice.

[Victrix]

Great ad. Try to get a moderator to sticky this at top of this forum in a new thread so everyone can see it.

I would add on to your statement at the bottom in bigger or bold text: 'Make a statement. Make your vote count. Vote Ron Paul'

Hell submit it to the State HQ and see if they can get National HQ to pull their heads out of their asses and give them some funds to run it


I just finished a new version that is less hostile towards Obama, please critique and spell check.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/barrackvsronmichigan.jpg

[quantized]

I think an ad like this is great if the general election comes down to Obama vs. Paul, or in other states. In MI, though, right now we just want Obama supporters to vote for Paul. I don't care if they still prefer Obama at this point - they can't vote for him.

I think our best chance for getting the most Obama supporters is to bill Ron Paul as the best choice available to them at this point (since Obama isn't). I fear that trying to convert them will turn some away who otherwise would vote for Paul as their next best choice.

Ditto.

To the thread starter,

Have you even talk to Obama supporters in the first place? Do you even realise the obvious fact that many of those informed Obama supporters have Ron Paul as their second choice candidate?

You are not addressing the heart of the issue. Your kind of ad appeals only to those who are concerned enough to look into the nitty gritty of the issues who in the first place had most probably know of Ron Paul positions.

[thegr8drronpaul]

Just an FYI, I just got a message from the guy running the Letter Writing Campaign. He said that the addresses that were sent out for Michigan did include Repubs, Independents, and Democrats. Sounds like they do this when there's an open primary, not necessarily because of the Democrats not being on the ballots.

[hillertexas]

bump

[JGalt]

for the record, "oversees" needs to be changed to "overseas."

Nice ad, by the way. This one needs to go on telephone poles near colleges, methinks.

[Willin]

Digg NOW - Michigan Democrats-Don't Throw Your Vote Away!!!!!!!!!


http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Mi..._Vote_Ron_Paul

Assuming this is legit, it could be big news for the Ron Paul campaign if the word gets out, as he is the only TRUE anti-war candidate and, even considering his liberitarian positions that no doubt disgust many Dems, he is no-doubt the better Republican candidate in their minds.

Please dig this en-mass as quickly as possible. How else might we get the word out? Anyone suggest a youtube video? Ensue a mass-posting on Democratic blog websites? Effort by the official campaign? How do we take advantage of this.


P.S. Digg.com kicks ass - I finally watched this youtube video released about the ease with which electronic Dibold machines can be infected with a virus that is undetectable to alter the results - it's literally f'cking mindblowing and sickening.
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/El...e_with_Diebold

also, vote for Ron Paul in this online aol poll where he's losing
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/straw-poll

As usual, I posted here prematurely - in an effort to consolidate a bit, below I have links to the posts under the Michigan sub-forum that deal with this EXACT topic, so if you're interested, check them out.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=79945 Michigan Democrats - Don't Throw Your Vote Away!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=85004 Can we get a phone list of Democrats?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=84577 How to get the Democrat vote: Story FROM a Democrat


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=85386 How can we recruit dems to vote in Republican primary?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=84587 Stealing the Obama vote?
This last one has some terrific commentary/effort to do exactly this - including a flyer for those campaigning directly in Michigan.

[Sesshomaru]

bump because I really like the first picture in this thread. I think that mentioning the similarities between Paul and Obama will help get the Obama.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=84587

I know a lot of Dems want to vote just to fuck up McCain's momentum, so theyre considering Romney. But if Romney gets momentum from NV, then thats another problem. To really fuck with the GOP, they should vote for Ron Paul.