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View Full Version : Regarding 3rd Party Run - HISTORY LESSON




exer51
01-09-2008, 09:40 AM
Many of you people are saying that if it comes to that it won't work. I'd urge you to rethink that.

The Republican and Democratic parties have not ALWAYS been the main parties. For some bizarre reason we've typically had 2 main parties in this country, but they're not the same 2 we started with!

In American history what has happened at crucial points in our history the major parties have been shattered(often by presidential candidates) and pulled off mass numbers of people into a new party. Then that new party has taken over the "top dog" position while the old one withered away.

I firmly believe that with 11 months to run for president we can inform enough people about how things work. NOT to mention that the dollar will undoubtedly keep sliding, which will merely help our stance more. Just envision a year from now RP winning the presidency as an indy and endorsing the Libertarian Party, or perhaps a new party even.

It CAN happen. We must MAKE it happen. I'm still hoping we'll magically start sweeping some states and we can take over the GOP, but if not this IS a viable option... Or so says history.

Ron2Win
01-09-2008, 09:43 AM
He is winning the nomination, he is the only true republican in the running. It is our job to educate the masses to what a true republican is.

tamor
01-09-2008, 09:52 AM
Dr, Paul himself has said the system is "stacked against" a third party nominee. Now, we are playing within the system, just imagine how difficult it would be as a third party. Dr. Paul has always said that it is not about him, it is about the message. Win or not, he is depending on all of us to keep the message going in anyway we can.

JS4Pat
01-09-2008, 09:54 AM
If it is Hillary (Pro War til 2013 / Pro Patriot Act / Washington Insider) vs McCain (Pro 100 year War / Pro Patriot Act / Washington Insider) there might never be a better opportunity for a movement like ours to change the system forever.

Let's focus on winning the GOP nomination, but keep this in our back pockets.

Of course BOTH require a competent national HQs - which we do not have...

exer51
01-09-2008, 10:01 AM
If it is Hillary (Pro War til 2013 / Pro Patriot Act / Washington Insider) vs McCain (Pro 100 year War / Pro Patriot Act / Washington Insider) there might never be a better opportunity for a movement like ours to change the system forever.

Let's focus on winning the GOP nomination, but keep this in our back pockets.

Of course BOTH require a competent national HQs - which we do not have...

Agree, agree, agree!

We still need to keep fighting for the GOP, but I'm just saying there's no reason to be glum. A situation like this is exactly what created the parties we have now. Hell it almost happened with Ross Perot and he was nothing compared to RP. To think we can't pull it off given nearly a year is simply ridiculous.

tamor
01-09-2008, 10:05 AM
Remember many people will vote for the "party" not the individual candidate. Dr, Paul has always said that this is not about him, it is about the message. Win or not, he will depend on us to continue to spread the message of freedom.

TSOL
01-09-2008, 10:08 AM
The problem is not in being a True Republican, but in what the GOP wants to continue; the Industrial Complex wants everything that is bad. The government does not want to concede power and liberty back to the people.

We have a long fight ahead of us.

dseisner
01-09-2008, 10:08 AM
The "Freedom Party" sounds like a decent idea if the GOP doesn't pan out.

ProBlue33
01-09-2008, 10:09 AM
If it is Hillary (Pro War til 2013 / Pro Patriot Act / Washington Insider) vs McCain (Pro 100 year War / Pro Patriot Act / Washington Insider) there might never be a better opportunity for a movement like ours to change the system forever.

Let's focus on winning the GOP nomination, but keep this in our back pockets.

Of course BOTH require a competent national HQs - which we do not have...


Yup plan B

S3eker
01-09-2008, 10:15 AM
Maybe we should start a NEW party.

Maybe call it the Donner party?

me3
01-09-2008, 10:28 AM
He is winning the nomination, he is the only true republican in the running. It is our job to educate the masses to what a true republican is.
Wrong. This is the preaching attitude that sets us back. Identify the voters issues, and address them from Ron Paul's platform. Trying to talk down to people is exactly what is wrong with the foreign policy.

There has been a lot of misdirected energy trying to change voters, when we should be co-opting them. That's if you want to see action anytime soon.

gpickett00
01-09-2008, 10:31 AM
bump, good point

EvilNight
01-09-2008, 10:33 AM
Guys, keep in mind that a 3rd party run is PLAN B. The Republican nomination is a better chance of success.

If that fails, we have no choice but to take the Libertarian party up on their invitation. They've already done the hard work of getting on all of the state ballots and we'd be fools to let it go to waste, or set ourselves up for even more work by creating yet another party. The Libertarians are *expecting* us to come to them and they have *prepared* for it already. I would also remind you that with over 2500 elected officials they are by FAR America's largest third party and a perfect fit for constitutional law.

This would be their first serious presidential run ever. They have a centrist position (fiscal conservative, social liberal) that appeals to a lot of Americans. Paul's pick for VP (Kucinich for example) could steal a lot of democratic support and it IS a vote for real change. It's still a friggin' HUGE hurdle to overcome, though, so that's why it has to be PLAN B.

The 3rd party discussion should be tabled until AFTER Super Tuesday. Until then keep on Ron for the Republican nominee.

If Ron is rejected from a brokered convention, he can turn his back on the Republican party with a clear conscience since they will have ceased to actually BE the Republican party any longer. His 3rd party run WILL doom the Republicans to lose this election. We can then try to make the Libertarians more like New Republicans. It'll be good for them. ;)

Even if we totally LOSE in the end, we must keep Ron out there so people hear his message. The MESSAGE is the important thing. It's already shaped this election. We need to do everything we can to make sure that there are a LOT of people who can see WHY things are going wrong when the collapse starts. Then we'll gain credibility, and maybe we can do something about it in 2010 or 2012.

LudwigVan Kubrick
01-09-2008, 10:42 AM
Some states won't let you run as 3rd party if you lost in the primaries.

Trust me, if anyone is banking on a 3rd party run... impossible.

Please focus your energies on the here and now.

EvilNight
01-09-2008, 10:49 AM
There are write-ins for that.

Most states will allow it, and this is about getting the MESSAGE out. A third party run allows us to continue the MESSAGE despite being out of the main parties, and that's what we will do if it happens.

IF necessary. ONLY IF necessary. Focus on the Republican nomination, it's a better solution.

spivey378
01-09-2008, 10:53 AM
id want him to run third party to simply get his ideas out there more


combine that with bloomberg possibly running, we'd have a four way race to dilute things more and break up the two party status quo

scbissler
01-09-2008, 10:58 AM
id want him to run third party to simply get his ideas out there more


combine that with bloomberg possibly running, we'd have a four way race to dilute things more and break up the two party status quo

That's what I want to see happen (if we don't win the republican primary, of course). The shake-up of the two current parties with a viable alternative of small government and liberty emerging would be a victory.

me3
01-09-2008, 11:28 AM
Guys, keep in mind that a 3rd party run is PLAN B. The Republican nomination is a better chance of success.
Whose plan B? I think some supporters project their ideas and direction onto the campaign, valid or not.


If that fails, we have no choice but to take the Libertarian party up on their invitation. They've already done the hard work of getting on all of the state ballots and we'd be fools to let it go to waste, or set ourselves up for even more work by creating yet another party. The Libertarians are *expecting* us to come to them and they have *prepared* for it already. I would also remind you that with over 2500 elected officials they are by FAR America's largest third party and a perfect fit for constitutional law.
I'm sorry, but the LP nationally has little to no clout. We wouldn't be in debates, we wouldn't get much media coverage, it would be much, much less effective than what we have now. Besides, there is this presumption that Ron Paul supporters who are independent are all LP members, or that people will leave the GOP for the LP. I think that assumption is very misguided.


This would be their first serious presidential run ever. They have a centrist position (fiscal conservative, social liberal) that appeals to a lot of Americans. Paul's pick for VP (Kucinich for example) could steal a lot of democratic support and it IS a vote for real change. It's still a friggin' HUGE hurdle to overcome, though, so that's why it has to be PLAN B.
Kucinich can't even get support in his own party, how is he going to bring support to the LP? Let's try to be a little serious here.


The 3rd party discussion should be tabled until AFTER Super Tuesday. Until then keep on Ron for the Republican nominee.

If Ron is rejected from a brokered convention, he can turn his back on the Republican party with a clear conscience since they will have ceased to actually BE the Republican party any longer. His 3rd party run WILL doom the Republicans to lose this election. We can then try to make the Libertarians more like New Republicans. It'll be good for them. ;)
Do you realize how much you are projecting? I hope you're not too terribly disappointed when this doesn't come to pass.

We're trying to win the Republican nomination, and people are still saying things like "doom the Republicans". You're absolutely no help to the people in the party, or who have joined the party to effect change. You're talking about undermining everything they are working for as delegates and committee people.