It's the economy, stupid

[partypoker]

It's time to shift the message from war to economy. The americans are too stupid to care about the lives of others, too selfish to think of the consequences of war. What we need to focus on is what can potentially hurt them and this is the rapid collapse of the credit market and uncoupling of debt obligations into a spiral of economic disaster. The stock market has begun the collapse, has plowed through resistance levels and will only continue in the future. RP is the only candidate who talks about the economy and when people believe their prosperity is at stake, and not just the lives of iraqi children, they will do something about it.

It's the economy, stupid.

Change the message please someone tell RP as soon as possible.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE BORDER.
IT'S NOT ABOUT STUDENT VISAS.
IT'S ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=CFC&E1=0&LPR=2&C1=0&C2=1&D5=0&D2=0&D4=1&DD=1&width=612&height=258&CE=0&CF=0
What will happen to your home when countrywide financial, the largest US lender, goes bankrupt?

US economy weighs heavily in White House race
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_economy_weighs_heavily_in_White__01112008.html

[hawkeyenick]

we can't gain much ground with the economy stance, it's all about teh anti-war stance according to the exit polls in NH

[partypoker]

we can't gain much ground with the economy stance, it's all about teh anti-war stance according to the exit polls in NH

We already have the antiwar crowd - we need to shift our message and capture the crowd that has a mortgage and is having trouble paying it off. RP has no chance to win if he doesn't change his message to the economy, period. This is imperative, it must be done.

[hawkeyenick]

We already have the antiwar crowd - we need to shift our message and capture the crowd that has a mortgage and is having trouble paying it off. RP has no chance to win if he doesn't change his message to the economy, period. This is imperative, it must be done.

If you actually read the exit polls, you would know that we don't have them, McCain actually got all of the anti-war crowd.

Care to guess wrong again?

All of the candidates have a conservative stance and similar points about the economy, we can make the most ground with the anti-war crowd, and that's all we need.

[partypoker]

If you actually read the exit polls, you would know that we don't have them, McCain actually got all of the anti-war crowd.

Care to guess wrong again?

All of the candidates have a conservative stance and similar points about the economy, we can make the most ground with the anti-war crowd, and that's all we need.

Your stance has no logical support. McCain is not against the war and wants to further promote the war so either they are so stupid they are voting for someone because they just like the name (which we won't get their vote anyway) or the antiwar message is not on their priority list. Period. Americans do not care what happens in Iraq because they do not see or hear the death cries of people. They might claim they are against the war but they have no logical reason for this and we will never get their support. On the other hand if we focus on the economy, something that could have a very large impact on them then have the ability to get their support because they see a direct consequence to supporting others in their 401k portfolio as it has dropped 10% in the last week.

So stop with the idiocy. I want a reason why changing the war message to the economy doesn't help us. The example you gave further illustrates my reasoning and demonstrates that your proposition is illogical.

[hawkeyenick]

Your stance has no logical support. McCain is not against the war and wants to further promote the war so either they are so stupid they are voting for someone because they just like the name (which we won't get their vote anyway) or the antiwar message is not on their priority list. Period. Americans do not care what happens in Iraq because they do not see or hear the death cries of people. They might claim they are against the war but they have no logical reason for this and we will never get their support. On the other hand if we focus on the economy, something that could have a very large impact on them then have the ability to get their support because they see a direct consequence to supporting others in their 401k portfolio as it has dropped 10% in the last week.

So stop with the idiocy. I want a reason why changing the war message to the economy doesn't help us. The example you gave further illustrates my reasoning and demonstrates that your proposition is illogical.

It doesn't matter what my stance is, it matters what the public perceives.

He won all of the anti-war crowd on the republican side, and even most of the voters that were leaning Paul.

All of this indicates that we should be hitting the anti-war crowd and upping name recognition by massive amounts.

You got it wrong, sorry to tell you.

[Antonius Stone]

is there a reason we can't do both? I mean were tougher on the Economy than any of the other candidates and we're anti-war. both are good selling points no matter which ends up being the top issue and the campaign has enough money to sell both.

and im sure we can make a flier that promotes both issues equally

[partypoker]

It doesn't matter what my stance is, it matters what the public perceives.

He won all of the anti-war crowd on the republican side, and even most of the voters that were leaning Paul.

All of this indicates that we should be hitting the anti-war crowd and upping name recognition by massive amounts.

You got it wrong, sorry to tell you.

The war message is not working, period. We already have the support of logical people that are against the war for a reason. I already stated my opinion and you have done nothing to refute it.

People who are against the war and voted for another candidate:
a) do not care much about the issue (which they will never switch)
b) care but are too stupid to vote for paul and supported what the media says (in which case the media blackout will never win their support)

And people who do support the war but are in trouble because their 401k is dwindling and they are late on mortgage/credit card payments do not even consider Ron Paul, in the most likelihood.

The consideration of the economic issue is that this is the one issue that has the biggest impact on every individual living in this country and RP clearly has the economic philosophy that would benefit this country and allow us most easily to survive this coming depression. I find it laughable that you suggest every republican candidate has the same economic stance when, aside from Paul, they all support the trillion dollar war budget. You clearly either do not understand economics or for some reason your just intentionally avoiding the obvious issue that is beginning to form.

It's the economy, stupid.

[partypoker]

is there a reason we can't do both? I mean were tougher on the Economy than any of the other candidates and we're anti-war. both are good selling points no matter which ends up being the top issue and the campaign has enough money to sell both.

and im sure we can make a flier that promotes both issues equally

Definitely do both, but what i'm saying is that RP should be pushing the economy more strongly. Talking about the collapse of stock market, housing, how the war is destroying the economy, the rise in food and energy. These all hurt the average american and if we highlight these points they may consider what he has to say. When he talks about the war and eliminating the dpt of education they can't relate. What they can relate to is spending 3$ on gas and 5$ on milk.

If we don't focus more on the economy we have no chance. We should get this message to the campaign anyway we can.

[Kingfisher]

Definitely do both, but what i'm saying is that RP should be pushing the economy more strongly. Talking about the collapse of stock market, housing, how the war is destroying the economy, the rise in food and energy. These all hurt the average american and if we highlight these points they may consider what he has to say. When he talks about the war and eliminating the dpt of education they can't relate. What they can relate to is spending 3$ on gas and 5$ on milk.

If we don't focus more on the economy we have no chance. We should get this message to the campaign anyway we can.

Right!

[hawkeyenick]

The war message is not working, period. We already have the support of logical people that are against the war for a reason. I already stated my opinion and you have done nothing to refute it.

People who are against the war and voted for another candidate:
a) do not care much about the issue (which they will never switch)
b) care but are too stupid to vote for paul and supported what the media says (in which case the media blackout will never win their support)

And people who do support the war but are in trouble because their 401k is dwindling and they are late on mortgage/credit card payments do not even consider Ron Paul, in the most likelihood.

The consideration of the economic issue is that this is the one issue that has the biggest impact on every individual living in this country and RP clearly has the economic philosophy that would benefit this country and allow us most easily to survive this coming depression. I find it laughable that you suggest every republican candidate has the same economic stance when, aside from Paul, they all support the trillion dollar war budget. You clearly either do not understand economics or for some reason your just intentionally avoiding the obvious issue that is beginning to form.

It's the economy, stupid.


I don't care what your opinion is, the data says that McCain won the anti-war crowd massively on the republican side. McCain also got more voters that were leaning Paul than Paul did.

That means we are weak in two areas, name recognition and "electability", both of which we can fix with a great marketing campaign.

Stop rambling on about useless hypothesis and actually look at the data. There is no ambiguity to it.

[webber53]

I believe the terms are mixed up with exit polling numbers.
I believe that McCain received anti-terrorists vote and it has
been misconstrued by the exit polling MSM to read anti-war.
There is no logical reason or explanation why people\voters
that are against the war in Iraq would vote for McCain! He is
a hawk, a warmonger. Remember his mantra? Bomb Bomb Bomb
Bomb Bomb Iran? What anti-war person would vote for him?

Most of the polling data I saw reflected voters concerned with
the economy.

[tsetsefly]

We already have the antiwar crowd - we need to shift our message and capture the crowd that has a mortgage and is having trouble paying it off. RP has no chance to win if he doesn't change his message to the economy, period. This is imperative, it must be done.

no we dont mccain got 40% of the anti war vote...

[Lars]

I agree that Ron should talk much more about the economy. His points are very different from other candidates and as the economy goes from bad to worse at least he has the proof that he was telling people about it early on.

When the sh*t hits the fan and people are losing their houses and jobs in droves THEN it will be the thing everybody is interested in. The question is, will it happen soon enough or will the Government and the Fed keep it going just long enough to get past the election.

[webber53]

Your are misreading the MSM exit poll definition. Please read this article by CNN
this morning!

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/08/nh.issues/?iref=hpmostpop

"In Tuesday's primaries, both Democrats and Republicans rated the economy as the
most important issue in the primaries, and almost all voters said they were worried about it,
exit polls show."

[webber53]

From CNN this morning!

"Exit polls found 64 percent of Tuesday's Republican voters still support the conflict."

[webber53]

From CNN article,

"Ninety-eight percent of Democrats said they were worried about the economy. And 87 percent of Democrats rated the economy as not good or poor, according to exit polls. But they were more positive about their personal economic circumstances, with 59 percent saying they were holding steady and 14 percent saying they were getting ahead.

Among GOP voters, 79 percent said they were worried about the economy. And just 51 percent rated the nation's economy as excellent or good, but an overwhelming majority said their family was holding steady financially (58 percent) or getting ahead (21 percent)."

[partypoker]

From CNN this morning!

"Exit polls found 64 percent of Tuesday's Republican voters still support the conflict."



Indeed. This is the most important issue Ron should be discussing and is the only issue that can give us leverage and support as this campaign progresses and the economy falls apart.

Bombard the campaign with emails.

WE MUST MAKE THIS ISSUE #1.

[webber53]

It's time to shift the message from war to economy. The americans are too stupid to care about the lives of others, too selfish to think of the consequences of war. What we need to focus on is what can potentially hurt them and this is the rapid collapse of the credit market and uncoupling of debt obligations into a spiral of economic disaster. The stock market has begun the collapse, has plowed through resistance levels and will only continue in the future. RP is the only candidate who talks about the economy and when people believe their prosperity is at stake, and not just the lives of iraqi children, they will do something about it.

It's the economy, stupid.

Change the message please someone tell RP as soon as possible.

You are exactly right! I said it last night on the forums as well.

[shagywashere]

The guys worried about the Economy voted for Paul and the Anti-War vote went to McCain. Face it: New Hampshire chose to die in the Live Free or Die state.

that proves that we need to get the ANTI-WAR message out there! According to the data, people worried about the economy are for Ron.


But both would be great.

[partypoker]

The guys worried about the Economy voted for Paul and the Anti-War vote went to McCain. Face it: New Hampshire chose to die in the Live Free or Die state.

that proves that we need to get the ANTI-WAR message out there! According to the data, people worried about the economy are for Ron.


But both would be great.

Everyone is worried about the economy - if they are not worried they soon will be. If the economy is not the major issue, we'll make it. They want the war to be the issue because they know the americans are too brainwashed to care about it. The war is not the issue, it's the media issue. The real issue that impacts every american is the economy.

[familydog]

Based on exit polls and testimonials from NH people here...it's obvious that people are unaware he is anti-war. It's not that they don't respond, it's that they don't know.

[partypoker]

Based on exit polls and testimonials from NH people here...it's obvious that people are unaware he is anti-war. It's not that they don't respond, it's that they don't know.

No, they just don't care about the war.

[familydog]

No, they just don't care about the war.

Source?

[partypoker]

"Exit polls found 64 percent of Tuesday's Republican voters still support the conflict."

"In Tuesday's primaries, both Democrats and Republicans rated the economy as the most important issue in the primaries, and almost all voters said they were worried about it, exit polls show."

"Ninety-eight percent of Democrats said they were worried about the economy. And 87 ercent of Democrats rated the economy as not good or poor, according to exit polls. But they were more positive about their personal economic circumstances, with 59 percent saying they were holding steady and 14 percent saying they were getting ahead.

[familydog]

"Exit polls found 64 percent of Tuesday's Republican voters still support the conflict."

"In Tuesday's primaries, both Democrats and Republicans rated the economy as the most important issue in the primaries, and almost all voters said they were worried about it, exit polls show."

"Ninety-eight percent of Democrats said they were worried about the economy. And 87 ercent of Democrats rated the economy as not good or poor, according to exit polls. But they were more positive about their personal economic circumstances, with 59 percent saying they were holding steady and 14 percent saying they were getting ahead.

That 64% will be divided up between several other candidates. Meanwhile we can't even capture the rest because they didn't know Paul was against the war. And honestly I'm not worried about what democrats think considering we need Republicans to win this thing.

[partypoker]

That 64% will be divided up between several other candidates. Meanwhile we can't even capture the rest because they didn't know Paul was against the war. And honestly I'm not worried about what democrats think considering we need Republicans to win this thing.

64% support the war doesn't mean 36% will not vote for someone who does not support the war. The war issue is dead, the new issue is the economy.

You have to adapt and evolve or you won't win.

[familydog]

You could be right, but I'm sticking to my guns. I've converted many a people with the foreign policy argument, and believe or not a couple of them were Bush neocons.

The economy and foreign policy are really intertwined anyway.

[partypoker]

You could be right, but I'm sticking to my guns. I've converted many a people with the foreign policy argument, and believe or not a couple of them were Bush neocons.

The economy and foreign policy are really intertwined anyway.

Yes, convert people with the antiwar message but also stress that the war is causing the collapse of the economy and dollar because we borrowing money to fund this spending.

[webber53]

From CNN this morning,

"McCain won Tuesday thanks in part to independents, late deciders and voters who put the war in Iraq at the top of their agenda, exit polls suggest."

"He is the one who ardently supports President Bush's troop buildup in Iraq," said CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider.

"Most Republicans support President Bush's Iraq policy, including New Hampshire Republicans, and that was the top issue for McCain voters."

For anyone that still thinks that he received the 'Anti-war' vote!

[partypoker]

From CNN this morning,

"McCain won Tuesday thanks in part to independents, late deciders and voters who put the war in Iraq at the top of their agenda, exit polls suggest."

"He is the one who ardently supports President Bush's troop buildup in Iraq," said CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider.

"Most Republicans support President Bush's Iraq policy, including New Hampshire Republicans, and that was the top issue for McCain voters."

For anyone that still thinks that he received the 'Anti-war' vote!

Further evidence the war issue is a non issue because the media has portrayed the surge as a success that pushed violence to all time lows, when, 2007 was the most deadly year on record. We will get logical people who are against the war, we will not get illogical people who are against the war.

We need to push economy. Save the economy, stop spending, cut the budget, etc. The economy is headed for the shitter, FAST. The s&p is about to tank, 8 days straight negative. People will become affected by this.

The economy must be the main issue.

[Petar]

obligatory bump

[partypoker]

Save the economy!

[MrKoffee]

The economy is great because most of the other issues don't really trouble many other people but anything that hits your wallet is sure to be important to every American.

[stevedasbach]

we can't gain much ground with the economy stance, it's all about teh anti-war stance according to the exit polls in NH

The exit polls I saw indicated that the economy was the number one issue. Plus, Dr. Paul ties it to ending the war and overseas spending. Linking war and foreign policy to the economy is a better approach to reach Republicans.

[partypoker]

How can we expect to win the election when there is impending economic disaster and Ron Paul is talking about student visas?

TALK ABOUT WHAT WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON PEOPLE.

THE ECONOMY AND ECONOMIC RECOVERY.

[partypoker]

This Needs To Be Stressed.

This Is The Most Important Coming Issue Of The Campaign.

The Stock Market Is Crashing And Headed To The Gutter.

[murrayrothbard]

It's seems pretty obvious that the vast majority of Americans think that it is the government's job to run/fix the economy, so that if the economy is bad they vote for someone who will 'fix' it. Of course 'fix' it means more government, not RP. :(

[partypoker]

Fixing it means withdrawing troops and cutting government spending by 1T.

[murrayrothbard]

Fixing it means withdrawing troops and cutting government spending by 1T.

99% of the population has absolutely no clue about the economy or economics in general. Do you think people understand it? Do you think people understand that the stock market is a giant inflated bubble, and probably needs to massively correct, or do people want a politician that will stick on a band-aid and continue to prop it up?

[partypoker]

People are going to start understanding when they see their 401k down 50%.

This shit is hitting the fan.

It's time to change topics. We got the logical antiwar votes, now it's time to get the people who are close to foreclosure and lost 40% value on their houses.

[Isupportliberty]

it is the economy... you can't convert a war-hawk by talking about the war, but you can convert them by talking about the economy and making them care more about the economy than F/P.

[partypoker]

64% of repubs support the war - i bet they don't support a depression.

talk up the economy and say ron paul is the only choice to survive the recession.

[partypooper]

It's the economy, stupid.

Change the message please someone tell RP as soon as possible.

the problem is that when dr paul talks about the economy he tends to talk about monetary problems and ignores the rest. sure, he talks about housing bubbles and stuff, bur all too often he sounds as if he thinks that monetary problems are the cause of all problems.

and they are not. i actually lived through 100% a day inflation so my guess is that i am more open to monetary explanations of economic woes than an average american. but the main problem comes from the fact that the economy is overly regulated. republican voters are much more willing to listen and agree about this. yet i dont' remember even seeing dr paul talk about this in a major public appearance (i saw him in longer interviews).

[partypoker]

the problem is that when dr paul talks about the economy he tends to talk about monetary problems and ignores the rest. sure, he talks about housing bubbles and stuff, bur all to often he sounds as if he thinks that monetary problems are the cause of all problems.

and they are not. i actually lived through 100% a day inflation so my guess is that i am more open to monetary explanations of economic woes than an average american. but the main problem comes from the fact that the economy is overly regulated. republican voters are much more willing to listen and agree about this. yet i dont' remember even seeing dr paul talk about this in a major public appearance (i saw him in longer interviews).

I agree. He needs to diversify his talk, but the main issue he should make himself out to be is one that stands for the a strong economy and will do everything in his power to ensure it does not fall apart.

[WilliamC]

Everywhere I look, I see debt people.

People who are in debt up to their eyeballs for their house, their cars, their possessions.

People who think nothing of running up thousands on a credit card, 10's of thousands on car loans, hundreds of thousands on a mortgage.

People who think home equity is an ATM machine.

People who think by using credit cards and getting a 1% bonus they are beating the system.

People who have no savings.

People who live from paycheck to paycheck and consider themselves middle-class because they have a big screen TV with 300 channels.

Everywhere I look I see debt people, and these are the people voting our country into bankruptcy.

I'm not perfect, I've run my share of debt, and I still have a mortgage that I'm trying to pay off 20 years earlier than I have to.

But if the vast majority of people are STUPID enough, and yes I do mean STUPID enough to think living their personal lives deeply in debt is normal and smart thing to do, then why should I be surprised when they vote for politicians who promise them the moon on a 100 year payment plan?

Is it any wonder our country is 9 Trillion dollars in debt when now the average total household debt is 129% of average household income?
http://www.woodstockinst.org/blog/blog/woodstock_institute_releases_study_documenting_dis turbing_trends_in_household_debt

Keep fighting the good fight for Ron Paul. I will. But take care of you and yours first. You will never be rich with credit card payments, student loan payments, car payments, or mortgage payments.

Debt is a trap, and the debtor is slave to the lender. Get out of debt, get out of bondage, then you will be free to become wealthy if you chose, or at least have peace of mind.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, actually I'll keep those two cents and apply them to my mortgage :)

[partypoker]

Everywhere I look, I see debt people.

People who are in debt up to their eyeballs for their house, their cars, their possessions.

People who think nothing of running up thousands on a credit card, 10's of thousands on car loans, hundreds of thousands on a mortgage.

People who think home equity is an ATM machine.

People who think by using credit cards and getting a 1% bonus they are beating the system.

People who have no savings.

People who live from paycheck to paycheck and consider themselves middle-class because they have a big screen TV with 300 channels.

Everywhere I look I see debt people, and these are the people voting our country into bankruptcy.

I'm not perfect, I've run my share of debt, and I still have a mortgage that I'm trying to pay off 20 years earlier than I have to.

But if the vast majority of people are STUPID enough, and yes I do mean STUPID enough to think living their personal lives deeply in debt is normal and smart thing to do, then why should I be surprised when they vote for politicians who promise them the moon on a 100 year payment plan?

Is it any wonder our country is 9 Trillion dollars in debt when now the average total household debt is 129% of average household income?
http://www.woodstockinst.org/blog/blog/woodstock_institute_releases_study_documenting_dis turbing_trends_in_household_debt

Keep fighting the good fight for Ron Paul. I will. But take care of you and yours first. You will never be rich with credit card payments, student loan payments, car payments, or mortgage payments.

Debt is a trap, and the debtor is slave to the lender. Get out of debt, get out of bondage, then you will be free to become wealthy if you chose, or at least have peace of mind.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, actually I'll keep those two cents and apply them to my mortgage :)

most americans are fucked
the ones that saved are still fucked
the whole banking system might collapse
the wall street guys are laughing on the way out of the bank

[partypoker]

I'm going to keep bumping until everyone figures out that it's the economy and not the war.

This may not be obvious right now but it will be obvious within a month.

[mosquitobite]

I'm going to keep bumping until everyone figures out that it's the economy and not the war.

This may not be obvious right now but it will be obvious within a month.

Focus on the economy and Ron Paul's lobbyist money vs the other candidates (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?cycle=2008) in the red states, anti-war/anti-Patriot Act in the blue.

Tailor the message to the audience. Not pandering, just play up the positions they would agree with most!

Also, I think we should come up with a course of action for the grassroots and for the national campaign. IE the campaign tells us "you guys handle THIS, we'll handle THAT"

[michaelwise]

I would like to see commercials of families getting foreclosed on, empty food banks and homeless people. Blame it on The Federal Reserve and show that Ron Paul introduced a bill to abolish the Fed.

[partypoker]

I would like to see commercials of families getting foreclosed on, empty food banks and homeless people. Blame it on The Federal Reserve and show that Ron Paul introduced a bill to abolish the Fed.

lol

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=CFC&E1=0&LPR=2&C1=0&C2=1&D5=0&D2=0&D4=1&DD=1&width=612&height=258&CE=0&CF=0
How about when the largest lender in the USA goes bankrupt?

Down 90% YTD.

[jacmicwag]

The big boys and girls are always fine-tuning their message (Hillary getting emotional) to better connect and get more votes. We can do the same to some extent. Michigan heard that giant sucking sound of jobs going overseas long ago. In Michigan, the state of the economy is a huge issue. This morning McCain promised new federal job programs to help out. We need a pitch but certainly not that one.

[partypoker]

The big boys and girls are always fine-tuning their message (Hillary getting emotional) to better connect and get more votes. We can do the same to some extent. Michigan heard that giant sucking sound of jobs going overseas long ago. In Michigan, the state of the economy is a huge issue. This morning McCain promised new federal job programs to help out. We need a pitch but certainly not that one.

Stress the economy but tie in other factors like reducing the military spending (overseas) by bringing troops home, protecting the borders (securing jobs even though this is controversial to libertarians we need republican votes), and going back to gold standard / eliminating the fed (reducing inflation and price inflation).

The economy should be issue #1.

All other issues should be secondary issues that further support the primary issue, the economy.

[hawkeyenick]

I'm going to keep bumping until everyone figures out that it's the economy and not the war.

This may not be obvious right now but it will be obvious within a month.

"listen to me because I know better than you, ignore facts"

That's what you're saying

The polls clearly show the war as the area we can make the most ground in other than name recognition

I don't care what your opinion is, the polls say otherwise

[partypoker]

"listen to me because I know better than you, ignore facts"

That's what you're saying

The polls clearly show the war as the area we can make the most ground in other than name recognition

I don't care what your opinion is, the polls say otherwise

Don't worry, the polls will soon change.

[hawkeyenick]

Don't worry, the polls will soon change.

sorry, but what people care about won't change soon

I'm really getting sick of talking to half-wits, people here don't want to win, they want to do it their way and it's making me feel like taking off. I mean really, you guys already got my vote in IA, what use am I now?

[partypoker]

Uh, did you not notice a 1000 point decline in the dow over the last week? The collapse of the stock market, aside from the 1 day rally which took place after 8 straight down days, is fact. The consequences to 401k's of retirement accounts will be fact. The housing collapse is FACT. The coming financial turmoil is FACT.

I'm not hyping anything, i'm stating a valid observation. The war message is NOT working, period. We need to refocus our message. The economy is headed for DISASTER and this is something that affects every single AMERICAN therefore this is the best way to spread our message of fiscal responsibility and central bank opposition.

I don't care what you're sick of.

[partypoker]

tttt

[stevedasbach]

Uh, did you not notice a 1000 point decline in the dow over the last week? The collapse of the stock market, aside from the 1 day rally which took place after 8 straight down days, is fact. The consequences to 401k's of retirement accounts will be fact. The housing collapse is FACT. The coming financial turmoil is FACT.

I'm not hyping anything, i'm stating a valid observation. The war message is NOT working, period. We need to refocus our message. The economy is headed for DISASTER and this is something that affects every single AMERICAN therefore this is the best way to spread our message of fiscal responsibility and central bank opposition.

I don't care what you're sick of.

While I agree that we should focus on the economy (and tie the war to that) I think it's wrong to say that the war message isn't working. The campaign hasn't tried stressing the war message, outside of debates. Their ads are about every issue except the war.

[AlexMerced]

the polls are very clear that we don't have the anti-war crowd, though I do agree ads connecting the economy and the war would be most effective

Something to the effect saying the terrorist attacked us economically by targeting the trade center which provoked us to spend more money spreading ourselves thin hurting our economy. If we keep fighting this war, the terrorist win.

I think that would work, the reverse fear tactic.

[partypoker]

tttt

[partypoker]

tttt

[partypoker]

ttt

[partypoker]

ttt

[partypoker]

tttt

[mconder]

What will happen to your holm when countrywide financial, the largest US lender, goes bankrupt?

They won't. There will be a colossal bailout using newly printed dollars. Everyone will pay a little for Countrywide's thievery. People will pay a few pennies more for the things they need and not know or care why.

[murrayrothbard]

Of course it's the economy. But RP CANNOT fix the economy. As in he cannot prevent the collapse. The only way to get to a healthy economy is for the current maladjusted structure to CORRECT. People don't want to hear this. :(

[mconder]

Of course it's the economy. But RP CANNOT fix the economy. As in he cannot prevent the collapse. The only way to get to a healthy economy is for the current maladjusted structure to CORRECT. People don't want to hear this. :(

You right that we will get a correction RP or no RP, but RP will lessen the blow because we won't be spending 1tril over seas.

[partypoker]

Tttt

[JohnMatthews]

To quote Alan Greenspan from his new book, The Age of Turbulence page 255:

"Historically, societies that seek high levels of instant gratification and are willing to borrow against future incomes to achieve it have more often than not suffered inflation and stagnation. The economies of such societies tend to run larger government budget deficits financed with fiat money from a printing press. Eventually, the ensuing inflation leads to recession, or worse, often because central banks are forced to clamp down. Then the process starts all over again. Many countries in Latin America have been particularly prone to this "populist" malady, as I discuss in chapter 17. I regret that the United States may not be wholly immune to it."

[partypoker]

tttt

[Broadlighter]

Bill Clinton used the Economy, Stupid line in 1992 and look where it got us - a balloon economy that started going bust as he was leaving office - you know, that business cycle thing that most people believe is a natural phenomenah.

People may not understand it, but it should intrigue them and get them to ask questions. After all, most prognosticators of the debt money system have gotten away with "Monetary policy is too complicated for the average person to understand." BS for far too long.

Time to take the gloves off.

It's the monetary system, stupid!

[angelatc]

Definitely do both, but what i'm saying is that RP should be pushing the economy more strongly. Talking about the collapse of stock market, housing, how the war is destroying the economy, the rise in food and energy. These all hurt the average american and if we highlight these points they may consider what he has to say. When he talks about the war and eliminating the dpt of education they can't relate. What they can relate to is spending 3$ on gas and 5$ on milk.

If we don't focus more on the economy we have no chance. We should get this message to the campaign anyway we can.

Yes, I agree with this. I just saw another candidate's economy ad on Tucker, and it was very good. (That candidate was misleading about his record, but......the ad was good.)

I think the campaign needs better ads.

[Carole]

If it were about the anti-war more people would have voted for Dr. Paul.

I believe people are not so anti-war as we have been told. Look who they support.

[Carole]

The exit polls I saw indicated that the economy was the number one issue. Plus, Dr. Paul ties it to ending the war and overseas spending. Linking war and foreign policy to the economy is a better approach to reach Republicans.

Exactly! This seems to be the best way to speak about it. It brings both issues under one umbrella and leads into monetary policy, which people are not interested in actually. Just the part about inflation and "recession" (read depression).

It is always about the economy, expecially now when it is threatened. Fed is trying to band aid it. And again Jan 29th they will try to band aid it, but no one believes Bush who is "Confident" economy is good.

They are jumping through hoops trying to disguise the problem playing out during these primaries so they can get their stooge nominated. Behind the scenes, Bush is trying to pull some strings to help, I am sure.

[Carole]

Do you think he needs to find a way to denounce fair tax policy as well?

I think the fair tax could be dangerous because I can foresee people paying $2 for an apple instead of $1.59 if it adds 25% or 30% to the price of goods. Prices are terrible for food.

I do not foresee the prices coming down either since all these guys want to continue current policies, which will not cut spending one cent and only add more spending.

[partypoker]

Do you think he needs to find a way to denounce fair tax policy as well?

I think the fair tax could be dangerous because I can foresee people paying $2 for an apple instead of $1.59 if it adds 25% or 30% to the price of goods. Prices are terrible for food.

I do not foresee the prices coming down either since all these guys want to continue current policies, which will not cut spending one cent and only add more spending.

Yes, the fair tax would be horrible for the poor and would further promote this wealth redistribution from the bottom to the top. They want to raise taxes on the food, the only thing we really need to survive.

Last night he was stressing the economy and taking no bullshit which i thought was effective and eloquent.

[Carole]

I noticed that people below the $50,000 income were voting for Paul in decent numbers in NH. But then again, not enough of those who are struggling are actually voting.

Higher income folks seem to be splitting votes based on other issues because they are not suffering perhaps so much as lower income folks.

So ads and other literature and canvassing really need to address this issue more aggressiviely perhaps..

[partypoker]

IMO it's the most important issue. Everyone is spending 3$ on gas and 3$ on milk, when 8 years ago each was 1$. The markets are unraveling and we're going into depression/recession. RP has the most to gain from this issue.

[partypoker]

If you make the war the issue you disenfranchise 2/3rds of republicans.

It's the economy, stupid.

[madRazor]

He needs to stress and link together even more that the war and our failing economy are one and the same.

Say things like, "Even if we disagree on foreign policy, we CANNOT pay for your solution. Our economy is crashing and our deficit financing of this war is the reason."

RP needs to connect point A to point B like he would for a child. That's the only way the sheeple will understand.

[partypoker]

Indeed. He already said we're in a recession so he should flat out state that he's the best choice for the coming financial downturn.

[billyjoeallen]

I agree that we gotta shift to the economy. The war might get better according to the spinmeisters, and that would hurt us, but We KNOW the economy is tanking and we look better the worse it gets.

Another big reason is that the public is fickle and has the attention span of a swarm of gnats. Even I am getting foreign policy fatigue. Doc Paul is no Tancredo one trick pony!

For your personal canvassing, talk about what YOU are passionate about, unless it's 911 Truth or white pride. In those cases, please just leave and don't come back. For everyone else, Stay positive! It takes a while for good ideas to sink in. Einstein was villified for years before his theories were accepted.

“In the beginning of change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for it costs nothing to be a patriot.”
-Mark Twain

[ronpaulhawaii]

How about signs that say,

ITS' THE ECONOMY AND YOU'RE NOT STUPID
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008

[partypoker]

How about signs that say,

ITS' THE ECONOMY AND YOU'RE NOT STUPID
RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008

GOOD IDEA. How do we do this?

[ronpaulhawaii]

GOOD IDEA. How do we do this?

sharpies and cardboard

Stencils, paint, and corplast board

http://www.rescue-us.org/new/RPR-HowTo

GRASSROOTS BABY!!!:D

[partypoker]

sharpies and cardboard

Stencils, paint, and corplast board

http://www.rescue-us.org/new/RPR-HowTo

GRASSROOTS BABY!!!:D

:D

[wgadget]

Call Herman Cain on WSB AM 750 in Atlanta. He's talking about how there is NOT A RECESSION.

He's a nut.

[traitorist]

US economy weighs heavily in White House race (http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_economy_weighs_heavily_in_White__01112008.html)

[AlbemarleNC0003]

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=CFC&E1=0&LPR=2&C1=0&C2=1&D5=0&D2=0&D4=1&DD=1&width=612&height=258&CE=0&CF=0
What will happen to your home when countrywide financial, the largest US lender, goes bankrupt?


COUNTRYWIDE IS BEING PURCHASED BY BANK OF AMERICA. CHARLOTTE NORTH CAROLINA!


Primary May 6.

We can take NC. We're everywhere. The Charlotte meetup group has 351 people so far. Concord has 57.

[partypoker]

US economy weighs heavily in White House race (http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_economy_weighs_heavily_in_White__01112008.html)

Thanks.

[AlbemarleNC0003]

Thanks.

29% this morning on CNN. Iraq is 22%. Why aren't we sweeping the nation?

[partypoker]

Because our message was focused on student visas and border policy, not something that affects everyone (the economy).

I predict the economy will continue to grow as an issue and the war in Iraq will continue to falter. The media cannot prevent people from seeing economic downturn, it can only delay the inevitable.

This election will be about the economy and this is one area where RP does not isolate 2/3rds of the party but actually unites the whole part. This must be the issue of the campaign if we have any chance of winning.

[Marc3579]

It's about the economy PartyPoker is correct. You say we don't need to worry about what Democrats think? Uh er um, what about in the GENERAL ELECTION? I'm sure, that if Ron Paul started to speak more about the economy, his poll numbers would raise, and people would be more willing to cross parties. The economy is that important of an issue to people. They care more about $3-4.00/gallon of gas, than they seem to care more about the war.

Why? Because, the economy affects their pocket book. Rather simple answer, we need the campaign to focus more on the economy, than the war message. Maybe, the two could be combined like it was during the last debate.

[Paul10]

....

[corsairtro]

I didn't read this thead after seeing country-wide in the first post, but didn't Bank of America solidify and announce plans to aquire Country Wide?

[gaazn]

shift the message now or we will enter a severe recession.

[Falseflagop]

http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/EURO.html?200811

[partypoker]

tttt

[partypoker]

tttt

[partypoker]

tttt

[parke]

economy bump.

i agree. this is the perfect storm for Ron Paul

[partypoker]

tttt

[Teenforpaul08]

The economy and the war are one in the same. A big reason for the economy being the way it is, is because of the irresponsible spending overseas. This causes us to print and borrow money.

[partypoker]

The economy and the war are one in the same. A big reason for the economy being the way it is, is because of the irresponsible spending overseas. This causes us to print and borrow money.

Not exactly..

[nosebruise]

yeah the war stuff is going to be nowhere near as effective as the economy.

why? A) the economy is non-divisive. its not like abortion or the war. it you are for america, you are for a good american economy.

B) it hits home. most people dont have to deal with the war in their day to day lives. most people do have to deal with the economy.

[partypoker]

yeah the war stuff is going to be nowhere near as effective as the economy.

why? A) the economy is non-divisive. its not like abortion or the war. it you are for america, you are for a good american economy.

B) it hits home. most people dont have to deal with the war in their day to day lives. most people do have to deal with the economy.

true

[billyjoeallen]

The two issues are completely interrelated. I like the spin he's putting on it now that the war is too expensive. Not the best anti-war argument, but the most palatable one to Republicans.

Doc P knows what he's doing.

[StonewallJacksonJenkins]

This is our best chance at reversing the polls. People are not playing around about their currency.

THIS IS THE MESSAGE OF VICTORY!!- It's the economy sheeple, and Ron Paul is the ONLY canidate that understands how to fix it.

A lot of people were really upset that they lost 13% of their retirement last week. Next week it will be 26% and if we plan for it, we will pick up Paul supporters by the zip code. Move fast, the crash is near.

[Cyclone]

It's time to shift the message from war to economy. The americans are too stupid to care about the lives of others, too selfish to think of the consequences of war. What we need to focus on is what can potentially hurt them and this is the rapid collapse of the credit market and uncoupling of debt obligations into a spiral of economic disaster. The stock market has begun the collapse, has plowed through resistance levels and will only continue in the future. RP is the only candidate who talks about the economy and when people believe their prosperity is at stake, and not just the lives of iraqi children, they will do something about it.

It's the economy, stupid.

Change the message please someone tell RP as soon as possible.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE BORDER.
IT'S NOT ABOUT STUDENT VISAS.
IT'S ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

http://data.moneycentral.msn.com/scripts/chrtsrv.dll?symbol=CFC&E1=0&LPR=2&C1=0&C2=1&D5=0&D2=0&D4=1&DD=1&width=612&height=258&CE=0&CF=0
What will happen to your home when countrywide financial, the largest US lender, goes bankrupt?

US economy weighs heavily in White House race
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_economy_weighs_heavily_in_White__01112008.html


I agree. His stimulus package is good. People don't really care about THE economy, they just care about THEIR economy. Tell them that he wants to eliminate taxes on SS checks. To many that means the difference between not getting medicine they need and getting it. That is huge. Some will die this winter because they cannot afford heat. The extra cash makes all the difference in the world.

Talk about no tax on tips. Again. Important to those folks.

Try to explain about the inflation tax. I always grab them on this one, but I only do it on the phone. Never in a flier.

Talk about the concept instead of taking billions of dollars from you to give to corporations so they can hire more people, just repeal useless regulations such as Sarbanes Oxley (as he has on the table). This costs you and I nothing and saves the corps millions per year to prove they are not crooks. Literally, millions. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/haman2.html

Bring the troops home to save us the money. You are right, no one cares about their lives, but they do care about the cost. Tell them we are going bankrupt paying the military one trillion a year to stay overseas.

Don't know how much a trillion is? Take one million dollars every day and spend it. Start in the year 1 A.D. It would take you over 730 years from today, at one million a day to spend a trillion. That is a lot of money. Explain it to them.

It is working for me.

[StonewallJacksonJenkins]

People don't really care about THE economy, they just care about THEIR economy.


You nailed it! Ron needs to capitolize on this since the puppets are still floating up that river in Egypt, the other canidates will eventually get sucked out to sea on the economy issue.