Pat Buchanan on Ron Paul's Campaign

[RonPaulMania]

I remember reading Buchanan's thoughts on Ron Paul's campaign and after some reflection I think he's completely correct.

First of all a little disclaimer, I don't think this country deserves Dr. Paul. The man is honest and has integrity beyond any politician I've ever seen or studied. The way they ridicule him and intentionally embarrass him is not only disrespectful, it's completely done with the intention of hurting his chances of viability and he and his family does not deserve the treatment this man is receiving. For this reason he is probably the greatest patriot we've had since the founders of this nation. As much as I respect Buchanan he was never a politician fighting for liberty with votes as Ron Paul has with the utmost integrity.

Back to Buchanan... he said Ron Paul wouldn't win, but what he would do is draw enough delegates from the Republican party and split the party into a true conservative faction. He would build a platform for politicians from the Republican party to leave and create a new strength of a more true conservative base.

Now I'm going to utter a blasphemy to some of you, but I don't see how Paul can win this election (notice I said "this" election), but what I see is more important than the presidency, namely, a true conservative party that will be viable in the House, Senate, and Presidential forums that are not considered "Independent" or "Libertarian". A new Conservative party that will be viable in the decades ahead, a movement more than an office. This will be more important to the nation than any 4 years of presidency.

What I'm saying is that if you want to jump the ship because Paul is no longer viable as a Republican you don't understand the war we are fighting. Even if he won he will be blockaded in Congress for everything but the troops, but what he is laying down is his personal comfort for the liberty and freedom of this nation. If you give up on him now you aren't giving up on Ron Paul, you are giving up on the nation and what he means as a symbol against big gov't and for personal liberty. I'm not leaving the Paul tent, but because the tent is bigger than Paul. The tent was made by the founders so let's fight this thing and create what I believe will be the best thing in politics in over 150 years. I fought for Buchanan in 92 and 96 and this is the best movement I've ever been a part of. Don't give up fighting!!!

Never stop fighting and never let your emotions guide you. We can win back the nation, but you can't let your mind waver. Dr. Paul has spent 30 years trying to right the ship, can't we just fight for more than a year for liberty no matter what the outcome?

[purplechoe]

bump

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

I have been saying from day one (and getting called a "troll" here) that we need a new party. The GOP is broken, and it's going down in flames. The party has treated Ron like dirt, and they don't deserve him.

We need a new party, and we need Ron to run in the general election. He's getting old, and this is the last opportunity for him. We can give him all the money in the world. We can make this happen, but everyone needs to start thinking realistically about starting a new party.

My suggestion: The Liberty Party.

[Ethek]

We can only do what we can do... and thats as much as possible. Right now we aim to get Ron Paul into office by securing delegates. This will be a brokered convention. Even states that are won can not be counted on by the delegates in large part.

[ConstitutionGal]

The current system is rigged in favor of the two-party system and has been for a long time now. Just gaining ballot access in most states for a new 'party' is VERY expensive and extremely time-consuming. Many of us have been saying for years that we will have to pick one of two annointed parties and take it over from within. With Ron Paul in the Republican party, it seems a good choice. I have lost a lot of faith in Pat. He used to be a figher. Now he seems to be looking out more for his cushy job. If he had any backbone, he'd stop telling people that Dr. Paul can't/won't win and start, at least, saying that Dr. Paul has a chance! I'm FED UP with people who want eveyone to believe that have priniples when their only alliegance seems to be to their paychecks or positions.

[literatim]

I have been saying from day one (and getting called a "troll" here) that we need a new party. The GOP is broken, and it's going down in flames. The party has treated Ron like dirt, and they don't deserve him.

We need a new party, and we need Ron to run in the general election. He's getting old, and this is the last opportunity for him. We can give him all the money in the world. We can make this happen, but everyone needs to start thinking realistically about starting a new party.

My suggestion: The Liberty Party.

There is no damn way any 3rd party can gain any ground ever. It is impossible and if you knew anything about it you would realize it. They can't even get on ballots at all in some States and they will never get into any debates or any real publicity.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

The current system is rigged in favor of the two-party system and has been for a long time now. Just gaining ballot access in most states for a new 'party' is VERY expensive and extremely time-consuming.

We have tons of money and tons of people willing to do whatever it takes to get Ron on the ballots. Stop being a defeatist.

[constitutional]

There is no damn way any 3rd party can gain any ground ever. It is impossible and if you knew anything about it you would realize it. They can't even get on ballots at all in some States and they will never get into any debates or any real publicity.

I hope bloomberg cuts through this two party trend. Of course Ron Paul has made it easier thus far by bring the issue of two-party bias to main-stream media.

RON PAUL ALL THE WAY!

[jd603]

Ron didn't spend all that much $ in NH , he's still got a warchest, don't count him out, we've only had two states, both with questionable voting practices.

either way nobody should bat an eye and should continue doing everything they can...... might as well, we've come this far...

[damon04]

http://grannywarrior.chipin.com/recount-

[jd603]

bloomberg is no real option, another bank puppet.



I hope bloomberg cuts through this two party trend. Of course Ron Paul has made it easier thus far by bring the issue of two-party bias to main-stream media.

RON PAUL ALL THE WAY!

[ConstitutionGal]

We have tons of money and tons of people willing to do whatever it takes to get Ron on the ballots. Stop being a defeatist.

I'm certainly no defeatist. I AM, however, a realist. I helped get the Constitution Party ballot access here in Tennessee and you wouldn't believe what hoops we had to jump though nor how much time was spent. Also, given the high voter turnouts during the last elections in many states, it will be even harder as you generally have to get a certain % of signatures of the last Governor's race turnout just to get a ballot line and, even then, you're likely to have to put up with having and "Independant" beside your name rather than the actual name of your party.

Also, as someone has already pointed out, there's this little thing called 'debates'. It will be decades probably before they ever let a new party participate in the debates. Did YOU watch the debates at Cornell in '04? I'd be willing to bet that 90+% of the population didn't even know there was one -- it was the THIRD PARTY candidates. They answered REAL questions while Bush and Gore played softball for the masses to judge them from.

So don't talk to me about being some defeatist. I've been there, done that already and, at this point in time and probably for the next SEVERAL presidential elections, it's pointless. Just ask Pat Buchanan. You think Ron Paul's got boots on the ground? We could all take lessons from the older Reform Party folks (many of whom are now supporting Dr. Paul) and will be more than happy to tell you how it works in the real world as they've been HEAVILY involved for decades now.

[parke]

this is the writing people need to read in newspapers.

I agree 100%. We need to find the people who are going to run for office in our meetup groups and start the process of getting our locals elected. The only way we are going to win is if we take it back.

I love America.

[ConstitutionGal]

this is the writing people need to read in newspapers.

I agree 100%. We need to find the people who are going to run for office in our meetup groups and start the process of getting our locals elected. The only way we are going to win is if we take it back.

I love America.

100% agree!! We need to get some folks in Congress to help out Dr Paul whether he wins the presidency or not. Maybe he could teach a class on the Consittution every Wednesday morning or something to keep all the new folks heading in the right direction! Problem is, many/most states are past their filing deadlines for this election cycle. :(

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

I'm certainly no defeatist. I AM, however, a realist. I helped get the Constitution Party ballot access here in Tennessee and you wouldn't believe what hoops we had to jump though nor how much time was spent. Also, given the high voter turnouts during the last elections in many states, it will be even harder as you generally have to get a certain % of signatures of the last Governor's race turnout just to get a ballot line and, even then, you're likely to have to put up with having and "Independant" beside your name rather than the actual name of your party.

Also, as someone has already pointed out, there's this little thing called 'debates'. It will be decades probably before they ever let a new party participate in the debates. Did YOU watch the debates at Cornell in '04? I'd be willing to bet that 90+% of the population didn't even know there was one -- it was the THIRD PARTY candidates. They answered REAL questions while Bush and Gore played softball for the masses to judge them from.

So don't talk to me about being some defeatist. I've been there, done that already and, at this point in time and probably for the next SEVERAL presidential elections, it's pointless. Just ask Pat Buchanan. You think Ron Paul's got boots on the ground? We could all take lessons from the older Reform Party folks (many of whom are now supporting Dr. Paul) and will be more than happy to tell you how it works in the real world as they've been HEAVILY involved for decades now.

How did Perot do it??? You ARE a defeatist. This isn't going to be some rinky-dink green party or Constitution party thing. We have tens of millions of dollars and millions of super enthusiastic young people to pump into this thing. Don't tell us what cannot be done.

[all J's in IL for RP]

To hell with third party. The OP is right in one sense, we have an opportunity to bring the fight to the heart of the Republican party and build a lasting coalition. Our delegates will COUNT and we will have our voice. Many states are going to split delegates among the different candidates and those will have an impact regardless of the outcome.

I'm still fighting to get Ron the win, of course. Only 3 states have voted, the campaign is getting more organized everyday and our grassroots can do serious yeoman's work on Super Tuesday if it gets organized to Get Out The Vote. I just today signed up some 15 precinct captain's for Illinois alone, and left many many more messages. Darned voice mails!

[icon124]

this is the writing people need to read in newspapers.

I agree 100%. We need to find the people who are going to run for office in our meetup groups and start the process of getting our locals elected. The only way we are going to win is if we take it back.

I love America.

Let me just say this, First I agree 100%. And second once I finish my college career I will begin my career in politics. This has all started from Ron Paul. At first I thought Ron Paul was only here to become president. Over the months I realized he wants to take the party back over time. Once he moves on, we will continue his legacy.

[Hope]

It's against the law in some states for someone who ran on one party's ticket to run third party after he didn't get the nomination. There is NO WAY laws like these would be changed in a matter of months. Oh, and Ron Paul has already said many, many times that he will not run third party. Stop dreaming.

[RoamZero]

Three things needed for a viable third party:

Lots and lots of money.

Lots and lots of media penetration and propaganda (using the money).

Lots and lots of internet leverage.

Basically, the key is to change the hearts/minds of Americans. A lot easier said than done really because so many are apathetic. I'm afraid that the best opportunity wont come until America hits rock bottom. The only thing that can be done now is using every resource to attack what's wrong with the system using every media trick available.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

It's against the law in some states for someone who ran on one party's ticket to run third party after he didn't get the nomination. There is NO WAY laws like these would be changed in a matter of months. Oh, and Ron Paul has already said many, many times that he will not run third party. Stop dreaming.

No, he has specifically gone out of his way to leave that option open. You are wrong.

If you want Ron to fail, keep pushing this "no third party" bullshit. Our loyalty is to Ron, not to the GOP who treat him so disgracefully.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Three things needed for a viable third party:

Lots and lots of money.

Lots and lots of media penetration and propaganda (using the money).

Lots and lots of internet leverage.

Basically, the key is to change the hearts/minds of Americans. A lot easier said than done really because so many are apathetic. I'm afraid that the best opportunity wont come until America hits rock bottom. The only thing that can be done now is using every resource to attack what's wrong with the system using every media trick available.

All of which we have.

And don't worry, the economy will soon hit rock bottom, right in time so that people will be eager for Ron's message. He can absolutely school all these other candidates on economic issues.

[ConstitutionGal]

How did Perot do it??? You ARE a defeatist. This isn't going to be some rinky-dink green party or Constitution party thing. We have tens of millions of dollars and millions of super enthusiastic young people to pump into this thing. Don't tell us what cannot be done.

You need to do some homework on Perot before you start throwing his name out as an example. Of course, the behind-the-scenes stuff didn't come out until after the election but, suffice it to say, he wasn't what he appeared to be and he got major help from the MSM. Something no third-party that stands for REAL change or is seriously bucking the system is going to get.

[steve005]

bump

[Silverback]

Actually, he hasn't said he wouldn't, for good reason.

This is going to be a brokered convention, and there will only be four candidates that make it past Feb. 5.

So Ron is going to be walking into the back room with his delegates AND the possibility of a third party bid, with all that means to the GOPs chances this year, in his pocket.

I really don't believe he wants to run independent, but he doesn't want to close that door either, because of the enormous leverage it provides him.

Could be the nomination, could be the VP, could be an appointment or three, it could be some language in the platform, which could be a very powerful implement, but one way or another Ron will make an impact on this nation by holding on all the way to the convention.

This was never about Ron, at least not to Ron.

[RSLudlum]

I don't think the masses realize but many of us do, that what Paul has done is brought a huge number of people together and back into politics and we are all learning what it takes to push a campaign and definitely giving future campaigns all sorts of possiblities with the amount of creativity we've put into this one.

yes, the MSM is now turning into the OSM and campaigning as usual is from this point forward a thing of the past.

[ValidusCustodiae]

We have tons of money and tons of people willing to do whatever it takes to get Ron on the ballots. Stop being a defeatist.

No dude, there are laws in some states PROHIBITING a 2nd Run by Paul outside the two parties.

If any whole state has him off the ballot, how are we supposed to win? edit : in the GENERAL election

[Silverback]

All of which we have.

And don't worry, the economy will soon hit rock bottom, right in time so that people will be eager for Ron's message. He can absolutely school all these other candidates on economic issues.


One thing those of us who've been aware of the monetary/economic issue for a long time have learned is that the economies of nations carry a lot of inertia.

The economy won't hit "rock bottom" for several years at least, it's going to get a bit rough here but the interventionist still have a lot of plays left, the economy won't collapse overnight and not until it's most advantageous to TPTB.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

You need to do some homework on Perot before you start throwing his name out as an example. Of course, the behind-the-scenes stuff didn't come out until after the election but, suffice it to say, he wasn't what he appeared to be and he got major help from the MSM. Something no third-party that stands for REAL change or is seriously bucking the system is going to get.

Actually I read Rollins' book and I know a lot about that race.

Are you seriously suggesting that Ron cannot get MSM coeverage??? Did you happen to catch the Tonight Show on Monday????

Enough of this defeatism. This movement can do anything we put our mind to.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

No dude, there are laws in some states PROHIBITING a 2nd Run by Paul outside the two parties.

If any whole state has him off the ballot, how are we supposed to win? edit : in the GENERAL election

All the more reason we should drop out now, so we don't prevent Ron from running in the general. We need people to look into these laws right away. I hope the campaign has put some work into this research and planning.

There is a reason why Ron has NOT ruled out a third party run. Because he's been planning it all along. But if he said "Yes, we're thinking about it," his chances would be injured in the GOP primaries.

Why do you think Ron has not ruled it out??

[koob]

Dr. Paul has spent 30 years trying to right the ship, can't we just fight for more than a year for liberty no matter what the outcome?


so true.

[BillyFromPhilly]

I remember reading Buchanan's thoughts on Ron Paul's campaign and after some reflection I think he's completely correct.

First of all a little disclaimer, I don't think this country deserves Dr. Paul. The man is honest and has integrity beyond any politician I've ever seen or studied. The way they ridicule him and intentionally embarrass him is not only disrespectful, it's completely done with the intention of hurting his chances of viability and he and his family does not deserve the treatment this man is receiving. For this reason he is probably the greatest patriot we've had since the founders of this nation. As much as I respect Buchanan he was never a politician fighting for liberty with votes as Ron Paul has with the utmost integrity.

Back to Buchanan... he said Ron Paul wouldn't win, but what he would do is draw enough delegates from the Republican party and split the party into a true conservative faction. He would build a platform for politicians from the Republican party to leave and create a new strength of a more true conservative base.

Now I'm going to utter a blasphemy to some of you, but I don't see how Paul can win this election (notice I said "this" election), but what I see is more important than the presidency, namely, a true conservative party that will be viable in the House, Senate, and Presidential forums that are not considered "Independent" or "Libertarian". A new Conservative party that will be viable in the decades ahead, a movement more than an office. This will be more important to the nation than any 4 years of presidency.

What I'm saying is that if you want to jump the ship because Paul is no longer viable as a Republican you don't understand the war we are fighting. Even if he won he will be blockaded in Congress for everything but the troops, but what he is laying down is his personal comfort for the liberty and freedom of this nation. If you give up on him now you aren't giving up on Ron Paul, you are giving up on the nation and what he means as a symbol against big gov't and for personal liberty. I'm not leaving the Paul tent, but because the tent is bigger than Paul. The tent was made by the founders so let's fight this thing and create what I believe will be the best thing in politics in over 150 years. I fought for Buchanan in 92 and 96 and this is the best movement I've ever been a part of. Don't give up fighting!!!

Never stop fighting and never let your emotions guide you. We can win back the nation, but you can't let your mind waver. Dr. Paul has spent 30 years trying to right the ship, can't we just fight for more than a year for liberty no matter what the outcome?

There is alot of really good thought in that post. I appreciate reading it.

Particularly how RP has been treated by the other candidates and his own party is a travesty. To allow guys like Romney & Huckabee full access to the buffet while their credentials are so completely out of whack with the party is deplorable, almost as deplorable as the treatment RP gets.

RP has started a movement, that is what we all are. Every article you read about the man talks about the passionate support he has. We love him because we get it. We took the time to do the homework and found out about him and what he stands for and what is his vision, our vision, of what America can be.

RP did what he thought was right all along. It was unpopular most of the time, but he was just in his decisions. He has voted the way all of us would vote should we ever attain office. He has shown us the way.

Ron Paul can win, this is by no means over. We need to get out the vote for the man. The signs and the guerilla tactics are beautiful, they are the only way we can get his name out there as the mainstream is not doing him justice, but the real nitty gritty is doing the legwork. Signing up as precinct leaders, knocking on doors and spreading the message that we all know down deep is what is right and what this country needs. The Ron Paul movement may be underground and underground is always cool, but it doesnt win elections. We need to get him mainstream without the help of the mainstream and without ever selling out.

This movement is on and in the coming years I hope to hear many identify themselves as Ron Paul Republicans. I am and you are too.

[ConstitutionGal]

Are you seriously suggesting that Ron cannot get MSM coeverage??? Did you happen to catch the Tonight Show on Monday????


Maybe you missed the part where Leno opened things up by saying that Dr Paul wasn't going to win. That's the whole problem now - when 80% of your media attention is NEGATIVE, it DETERS most voters. All the grassroots and money in the world aren't going to win any elections without the support of the mainstream average voters. That's not defeatist, it's real world and running on some third-party tickets (where he could even get on the ballot) isn't going to solve the problem. You have to learn the rules of the game whether you think they're fair or not and then bend them as far as possible to make them work in your favor. Running third-party is basically saying "I don't like your rules and refuse to abide by them" -- NOT, at this point in time, going to win any elections I don't care how many people say otherwise.

[georgia_tech_swagger]

No -- don't be suckered into a third party. Use the system to beat the system. Just being able to get into the debates for Ron (which he couldn't do as a third party or independent) has been PRICELESS. We must take back the Republican Party to win.

Note my sig.

[MsDoodahs]

The GOP is broken, and it's going down in flames. The party has treated Ron like dirt, and they don't deserve him.



You are correct, 100%.

[BillyFromPhilly]

This was never about Ron, at least not to Ron.

I think you are right. Doesnt that make you just love it even more?

[Peppy690]

I vote for the Freedom party

[parke]

100% agree!! We need to get some folks in Congress to help out Dr Paul whether he wins the presidency or not. Maybe he could teach a class on the Consittution every Wednesday morning or something to keep all the new folks heading in the right direction! Problem is, many/most states are past their filing deadlines for this election cycle. :(

Heres another little bit of inspiration.. Ron Paul is the only candidate with the money to compete on Super Tuesday. I understand what you have done.. but RP is leading in a few states.. we could cause an upset.

We will at the very LEAST split the delegate and put RP in a good position to back up getting a Congress behind him before the next election.

Regardless, we are going to take America back. ;)

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Maybe you missed the part where Leno opened things up by saying that Dr Paul wasn't going to win.

Maybe Leno is smart enough to realize that Ron is in the wrong party!

All of you people who are saying, "Ron can't win third party" are naysayers who do not understand the shifting of the political landscape or the increased power and influence of the internet. By demanding that Ron stay in the corrupt two-party system, you are condemning him to defeat and condemning all of us to defeat. Third party is the only way to actually win.

If a nutball like Perot can come within inches of pulling it off, we can do it.

[BillyFromPhilly]

Maybe Leno is smart enough to realize that Ron is in the wrong party!

All of you people who are saying, "Ron can't win third party" are naysayers who do not understand the shifting of the political landscape or the increased power and influence of the internet. By demanding that Ron stay in the corrupt two-party system, you are condemning him to defeat and condemning all of us to defeat. Third party is the only way to actually win.

If a nutball like Perot can come within inches of pulling it off, we can do it.

inches?...

William Jefferson Clinton 44,909,806 43.0%
George Herbert Walker Bush 39,104,550 37.4%
Henry Ross Perot 19,743,821 18.9%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1992

[texnofobix]

Perot couldnt win b/c he wasnt an eagle scout. Show me an elected President who was elected. Where is Perot now anyway?

[JMO]

I have been saying from day one (and getting called a "troll" here) that we need a new party. The GOP is broken, and it's going down in flames. The party has treated Ron like dirt, and they don't deserve him.

We need a new party, and we need Ron to run in the general election. He's getting old, and this is the last opportunity for him. We can give him all the money in the world. We can make this happen, but everyone needs to start thinking realistically about starting a new party.

My suggestion: The Liberty Party.

That is where I am going after this election. I might not stay there for 2012, but I will change to the libertarian party to increase their membership. My hopes is enough people do this and the liberterian party can somehow get 15% of the registered americans and be eligible for government funding.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

inches?...

William Jefferson Clinton 44,909,806 43.0%
George Herbert Walker Bush 39,104,550 37.4%
Henry Ross Perot 19,743,821 18.9%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1992


Were you not around when all this happened? Perot was LEADING both Bush and Clinton and looked like he was on his way to possibly winning, but then he mysteriously dropped out of the race, citing "Republican dirty tricks." He later got back into the race, but he was damaged goods by then. Even after all that, he got almost 20 MILLION votes.

Ron could do better than that.

[Minuteman]

Why dont we elect some congressmen and senators and change election law.

[literatim]

That is where I am going after this election. I might not stay there for 2012, but I will change to the libertarian party to increase their membership. My hopes is enough people do this and the liberterian party can somehow get 15% of the registered americans and be eligible for government funding.

You are dreaming dude. All 3rd parties will always be in obscurity. The only way that will change is if voting laws will be changed and neither Democrats nor Republicans will do that. What you should be focusing on is trying to get local constitutionalists elected as Republicans.

[literatim]

Were you not around when all this happened? Perot was LEADING both Bush and Clinton and looked like he was on his way to possibly winning, but then he mysteriously dropped out of the race, citing "Republican dirty tricks." He later got back into the race, but he was damaged goods by then. Even after all that, he got almost 20 MILLION votes.

Ron could do better than that.

Ross Perot spent $60 million of his own money and he wasn't even on all the ballots because 3rd parties are gimped in many States!

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

You are dreaming dude. All 3rd parties will always be in obscurity.

You know, I'm really sick of your anti-third party trolling. You're a defeatist who seems to be determined to have Ron lose rather than leave the GOP.

Get lost, troll.

[georgia_tech_swagger]

You know, I'm really sick of your anti-third party trolling. You're a defeatist who seems to be determined to have Ron lose rather than leave the GOP.

Get lost, troll.

It's called REALITY. Do you know how hard it is as a third party to:

- Get onto ballots
- Get into debates
- Get ANY coverage -- even negative! -- from mainstream media outlets

IT'S A STACKED DECK! Third party efforts are wasteful and ineffective. You have to be a BILLIONAIRE to even get moderately effective. Use the system to beat the system!!

[literatim]

You know, I'm really sick of your anti-third party trolling. You're a defeatist who seems to be determined to have Ron lose rather than leave the GOP.

Get lost, troll.

Defeatist? I think we can kick these neocons back to the Democratic Party. You sir are the defeatist. You want to put your tail between your legs and run to the Libertarian Party, a party I would never join and will forever be in obscurity. They couldn't even keep all the social conservatives they had due to their crap. That is why the Constitution Party has a lot more members.

Ron Paul has won as and has been a Republican for his 10 terms in Congress and he will never leave.

[dspectre]

YOU PEOPLE NEED TO GET OVER YOURSELVES.

IF YOU KNEW THE FUTURE, WHY LIVE LIFE?

We have a little over 1% of the delegates chosen and people want to declare that RP will not win.

[gaazn]

the republican party will break into the western-style republicans and the rest of the country. the western state republicans tend to less neocon, and more for smaller government. think alaska, idaho, montana, etc.

[all J's in IL for RP]

You know, I'm really sick of your anti-third party trolling. You're a defeatist who seems to be determined to have Ron lose rather than leave the GOP.

Get lost, troll.

That's funny. This thread was about Pat Buchanan's commentary on Paul's campaign and the idea that our run for the presidency would have an effect on the Republican party (weather be an impact on the platform, a VP spot, a reinvigorated libertarian wing or what have you). This thread was diverted BY YOU into yet another debate on a 3rd party run.

If anyone in this thread is a troll, it is you.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

It's called REALITY. Do you know how hard it is as a third party to:

- Get onto ballots
- Get into debates
- Get ANY coverage -- even negative! -- from mainstream media outlets

IT'S A STACKED DECK! Third party efforts are wasteful and ineffective. You have to be a BILLIONAIRE to even get moderately effective. Use the system to beat the system!!


Then how did Ross Perot get into the debates and nearly win the White House???

Stop telling us what we cannot do. We can do anything we set our minds to.

[literatim]

Then how did Ross Perot get into the debates and nearly win the White House???

Stop telling us what we cannot do. We can do anything we set our minds to.

He has a lot of influence in the political world because he is a billionaire.

No one is going to follow you, so you are all alone. Quit pestering us.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

He has a lot of influence in the political world because he is a billionaire.



Ron has all the money in the world at his disposal. Money is not an issue.

You're nothing but a defeatist and a troll. Congratulations on becoming the first name on my ignore list.

[Taco John]

for my part, I stopped reading when you said he couldn't win "this" election. I'll think about the future when I need to. For now, winning in November is what I want to focus on. If I get let down, I get let down. I've been voting for Libertarian candidates for years, so it won't be nothing to me.

[specsaregood]

//

[specsaregood]

//

[literatim]

I'm not gonna get involved in the independent/3rdparty run debate; BUT from the link you cite above:

"In June, Perot led the national public opinion polls with support from 39% of the voters (versus 31% for Bush and 25% for Clinton).[5] Perot severely damaged his credibility by dropping out of the presidential contest in July and remaining out of the race for several weeks before re-entering. He compounded this damage by eventually claiming, without evidence, that his withdrawal was due to Republican operatives attempting to disrupt his daughter's wedding. His presence, however, ensured that economic issues remained at the center of the national debate.
"

Perot very well could have won if he had not dropped out for awhile.

Of coursethe tinfoilhatters will say that Perot didn't want to win, but joined to take Bush out so that he could get some lucrative contracts via the Clintons... I don't buy it.

Does anybody remember or have link to Perot's stances concerning the federal reserve?

The guy was right about NAFTA....

The problem is, national % does not = winning. It takes delegates to win and he wasn't on many ballots due to States banning 3rd parties.

[Taco John]

inches?...

William Jefferson Clinton 44,909,806 43.0%
George Herbert Walker Bush 39,104,550 37.4%
Henry Ross Perot 19,743,821 18.9%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1992



Perot had 39% of the votes according to opinion polls. Some say he dropped out because of threats his family was receiving. For whatever reason he dropped out, he did it. When he got back in, he was able to get close to 20% of the vote. He didn't have a political establishment to funnel that support into, and he didn't have a body of work to leave for scholars to study.

I personally believe that Dr. Paul could do very well as a third party candidate.

[josh24601]

Amen.

I've noted that RP's supporters are divided between those that have all of their hopes up for a miracle presidential victory and those who have their eyes set on the long term health of the movement.

It should be stupidly obvious to anybody that RP does not have enough name recognition yet. How many have all of us told somebody about him only to hear, "Who?"

This campaign is about making the nation aware both of Ron Paul and, much more importantly, the message.

It's why I get so sick of people screeching and crying about voting conspiracies and all that crap. HE GOT 8% IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, IT WAS CONSISTENT AT JUST ABOUT EVERY SEPARATE TOWN.

The prize here is that, just as you and Pat say, a real liberty movement is being created that is NOT going away so long as the people behind it (us) don't freak out because RP is not the next president.

He says it himself all the time - this is not about him, it's about his message. And it is a million times stronger now than it was a few years ago.

The long term momentum of this message is rising at an insane rate. I'm glad to see more people with this perspective, it's what will bring our country back to what we all want it to be.

Having said that, GET OUT THERE AND GET MORE VOTES! :D

[Taco John]

...he wasn't on many ballots due to States banning 3rd parties.

There is no source for this, I'm sure. Which states ban 3rd parties? I'd love for you to try and back that statement up.

The more I read from you, the more I think you're a mole. Your registration date seems to indicate otherwise, but you sure seem to be interested in throwing up roadblocks.

[specsaregood]

The problem is, national % does not = winning. It takes delegates to win and he wasn't on many ballots due to States banning 3rd parties.

He wasn't a 3rd party, he was an Independent.

If you believe the almighty wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot
"Nevertheless, in September he qualified for all 50 state ballots. "

[parke]

Let me just say this, First I agree 100%. And second once I finish my college career I will begin my career in politics. This has all started from Ron Paul. At first I thought Ron Paul was only here to become president. Over the months I realized he wants to take the party back over time. Once he moves on, we will continue his legacy.

Thats awesome. Send me a PM with your email. Ill help however I can!

[georgia_tech_swagger]

Then how did Ross Perot get into the debates and nearly win the White House???

Stop telling us what we cannot do. We can do anything we set our minds to.

With HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars. He was literally throwing around 9 figures. You realize the only reason people knew who he was is that he bought half hour chunks of PRIMETIME major network airtime to speak his message. One or two of those would cost far more than Ron Paul has raised his entire campaign.

You're just not getting it! You waste INCREDIBLE amounts of money and time just to get what running in the major parties gives you at the start: entrance into debates, air time, and name recognition.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

With HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars. He was literally throwing around 9 figures. You realize the only reason people knew who he was is that he bought half hour chunks of PRIMETIME major network airtime to speak his message. One or two of those would cost far more than Ron Paul has raised his entire campaign.

You're just not getting it! You waste INCREDIBLE amounts of money and time just to get what running in the major parties gives you at the start: entrance into debates, air time, and name recognition.

Money is not a problem for Ron!!!!!!!!!! We have proven we can raise as much as he needs. Stop telling us what we cannot do, and start helping us plan to actually get Ron into the White House!

[specsaregood]

With HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars. He was literally throwing around 9 figures. You realize the only reason people knew who he was is that he bought half hour chunks of PRIMETIME major network airtime to speak his message. One or two of those would cost far more than Ron Paul has raised his entire campaign.

You're just not getting it! You waste INCREDIBLE amounts of money and time just to get what running in the major parties gives you at the start: entrance into debates, air time, and name recognition.

This is WHY we need to actively fight ALL attempts by our government to regulate the freaking internet. ALL attempts, even if they sound like good ideas. Because in the future the internet is going to simply grow in influence and they will NOT stand to lose their control of us via the boob-tube.

[literatim]

MayTheRonBeWithYou is delusional. We are like 4% in national polls. Primary voters are a very tiny fraction of voters compared to the general election.

[georgia_tech_swagger]

Money is not a problem for Ron!!!!!!!!!! We have proven we can raise as much as he needs. Stop telling us what we cannot do, and start helping us plan to actually get Ron into the White House!

This is very simple math:

Ron Paul's entire campaign haul: less than $30,000,000
Perot's expenditures: $65,400,000 in his own money + funds raised + federal funds.

And this is just money Perot spent directly on the campaign!

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

This is very simple math:

Ron Paul's entire campaign haul: less than $30,000,000
Perot's expenditures: $65,400,000 in his own money + funds raised + federal funds.

And this is just money Perot spent directly on the campaign!

Do you seriously think that money will be a problem?? When has this revolution ever had problems raising money? We have only begun to grow. We could raise 100 million for a general election.

What this campaign needs more than anything is new plan: GFTO of the GOP, set up a new party, and start fighting for the White House for real! People would be so incredibly excited!

[RonPaulMania]

Paul's vision of liberty appeals to many except a few horse-blinded individuals. These are called "one-issue voters": welfare (close 15% of the nation that votes on this issue alone & democrat), abortion (about 30% on both sides), war and security (10% although higher with the Middle East), and economy (25%).

The independents and members of parties vote on this issues as a whole, but very few do so. Most dems will vote Repub if the economy is going well (e.g. Reagan), and Repubs will vote Dem also for the economy (e.g. Clinton).

The problem is America is stupid. We need an intelligent voter base, but this will never happen because the media DOES have that much power. To think otherwise misses how the average person votes and lives. They gave Clinton the credit for the 90's boom, not the balanced budget of the Republicans, and the story goes on and on.

The bottom line is this is going to be a face to face effort that will last forever. We lost freedom in the country in the 1860's, and the end of the nation in 1913. While freedom is popular it takes an educated person to understand it. This is a long-term fight and we have to understand the historical and political implications of this long-term. This isn't an attempt to get one victory for one person, but the health of the nation with personal responsibility as the cure.

[Mogwai]

Money is not a problem for Ron!!!!!!!!!! We have proven we can raise as much as he needs. Stop telling us what we cannot do, and start helping us plan to actually get Ron into the White House!

According to wikipedia in 2004 the republicans and the democrats spend 350 million dollar each for the general election. Nowadays it would probably be 500 million dollar.

That means that to win as an independent he should get at least 500 million dollars. We know he can raise 20 million dollars in one quarter with an average donation of 100 dollar. If everyone donates 1000 dollar it would be 200 million dollars and that should be a good start. Matching funds anyone :D:D

If we can raise that amount Ron Paul would be invited to the presidential debates and he will have more time to stress his points and attacking his opponents and win new supporters. The party can be formed after getting into the white house.

[AlexMerced]

No matter what ron Paul can still s ingle handeldy destroy the republican party if need be, so I'm sure if it gets down to the wire, he'll be the one with the influence in a brokered convention