Very simple mathematics. We may not lose

[Misesian]

As simple as a whole number: 1,191

If no candidate reaches that number of delegates we go to a brokered convention and any delegate can vote for any candidate that he or she wishes for.

I already went through the full range of emotions tonight (anger, sadness, despair, acceptance) and am actually back to HOPE right now. We still do have HOPE people and it's not just for a brokered convention but to WIN NV, MI, and FL. I'm working on FL but I hope you Michiganders and Nevadans are doing the same thing.

The last hope I will have is for a brokered convention. This means that we target delegates and hope to convert them. We will still need to be active in the local GOP's to find out who these delegates are, and a different approach will HAVE to be taken and we'd have to be much much softer.

I hope that those from IA and NH might start working on their delegates already in the case of a brokered convention.

We still have Benito beat on the delegate count and the different according to the leader (Romney) and Paul is only 22: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

[Ron2Win]

Seriously though, we need to educate the sheep. Only through education can they break through the mainstream bias.

[bluemarkets]

three words

canvass


CANVASS


CANVASS

:)

[Austin]

What happens if there is a brokered convention?

[Jobarra]

You know, I've started thinking about a brokered convention. I think Ron Paul delegates need to start educating themselves on every single Paul position and all possible arguments. We're going to need to prove our points the other candidates' delegates. If we can somehow take away their concerns over foreign policy, I think we would have most of the other candidates' delegates. We just need to be able to argue from the moral and economic point of view.

[DXDoug]

If Kinky can get 550,000 Votes in Texas and a grandma got 600,000 votes id say theres still hope!

Alot of states to go do what you gotta do to win it!

[Misesian]

If Kinky can get 550,000 Votes in Texas and a grandma got 600,000 votes id say theres still hope!

Alot of states to go do what you gotta do to win it!

Yes but didn't NH do what was supposed to be done to win or is this just what we were led to believe? I mean I thought EVERY household was canvassed in NH, they also had ads playing for quite a while as well. It just didn't seem like the doctor himself took enough house calls in the state which he really can't do since he has a full time job as well.

Krippy, in a brokered convention it doesn't matter who the delegates are pledged to, they can vote for WHOMEVER THEY WISH! ;)

[werdd]

yeah i think we got a decent shot at TX, the austin and dallas meetups are freaking huge, and kinky got 550K votes (I was one of them) In case you didnt know, kinky has endorsed Ron Paul.

[Dave Wood]

Educating the masses is NOT a good strategy. We must clearly define who OUR voters are and exactly what motivates them to pull the lever. Once that is known, we must wrap Dr. Paul up in a very pretty package and SELL THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO BUY.

[me3]

yeah i think we got a decent shot at TX, the austin and dallas meetups are freaking huge, and kinky got 550K votes (I was one of them) In case you didnt know, kinky has endorsed Ron Paul.
Let's hope they aren't full of fanatical truthers. It's one thing when you attract the fringe, another when the fringe is your base.

[rollingpig]

let's get it done!!

[Misesian]

Let's hope they aren't full of fanatical truthers. It's one thing when you attract the fringe, another when the fringe is your base.

That's not entirely fair, there are truthers who do know how to control themselves and behave. Though it does seem like we have wings within our base, the prisonplanet.com wing and the lewrockwell.com wing.

[TSOL]

I cannot fathom Thompson nor Hunter staying in this race past South Carolina. Even so, where would their 4000 votes have gone if not in NH ? IF all went to Paul. he'd still be 4000 Votes below Huckabee

(general estimates)

Keep working on it !

[me3]

That's not entirely fair, there are truthers who do know how to control themselves and behave. Though it does seem like we have wings within our base, the prisonplanet.com wing and the lewrockwell.com wing.
There is a reason I made a distinction between Turthers, and fanatical Truthers.

We're trying to get a nomination from a conservative party, and we've got these people running around screaming that we're all going to be chipped, we're being enslaved by global government etc. I'm not saying I don't believe it, but there is a time and a place...

Btw, we must win the majority of delegates in 5 states to be viable, brokered convention or not. It's not good enough to have 50 2nd place finishes.

[Bradley in DC]

As simple as a whole number: 1,191

If no candidate reaches that number of delegates we go to a brokered convention and any delegate can vote for any candidate that he or she wishes for.

Your understanding of the process is just factually wrong, no offense.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47093

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47114

The rules "binding" delegates are decided by state law (some not at all, some permanently, most for a certain number of ballots) unless "released" by the candidate.

The nominee needs a majority of delegates to win. There are rules specifying who is eligible to be nominated at all (eg, win the majority of delegates in five states).

[Bradley in DC]

I cannot fathom Thompson nor Hunter staying in this race past South Carolina.

Duncan Hunter is in until California in order to help his son win the nomination for his Congressional seat.

[mosquitobite]

You know, I've started thinking about a brokered convention. I think Ron Paul delegates need to start educating themselves on every single Paul position and all possible arguments. We're going to need to prove our points the other candidates' delegates. If we can somehow take away their concerns over foreign policy, I think we would have most of the other candidates' delegates. We just need to be able to argue from the moral and economic point of view.

_o_ SPOT ON!

[Misesian]

I cannot fathom Thompson nor Hunter staying in this race past South Carolina. Even so, where would their 4000 votes have gone if not in NH ? IF all went to Paul. he'd still be 4000 Votes below Huckabee

(general estimates)

Keep working on it !

Well I'm kinda hoping that these establishment candidates DO stay in the race to steal delegates from eachother and really help ensure a brokered convention. Once it reaches 1191 for anybody other than Ron Paul, than it's game over.

Houston Chronicle article on Paul being able to wage a campaign through super tuesday at least from the warchest: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/nation/5439272.html

Even if he doesn't outright win any states he's still GOING to win delegates for sure, and when you win delegates you get x number of minutes of speaking time at the nominating convention as well. Should we not go brokered and the worst case scenario occurs at least Paul will get the opportunity to deliver his message one last time at the biggest neocon events that take place in a decade.

[Mark Rushmore]

Let's hope they aren't full of fanatical truthers.

What's a "truther"?

[Misesian]

Your understanding of the process is just factually wrong, no offense.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47093

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47114

The rules "binding" delegates are decided by state law (some not at all, some permanently, most for a certain number of ballots) unless "released" by the candidate.

The nominee needs a majority of delegates to win. There are rules specifying who is eligible to be nominated at all (eg, win the majority of delegates in five states).

Yes I realized that the states determined the rules on how delegates are bound to their pledged candidate but as you said I believed most allowed them to vote for whomever after x rounds.

I was not aware that we needed to win at least 5 states to be eligible for the nomination even in a brokered convention though. Damn, back to the grieving process now until I can hopefully get back to HOPE again. Those damn freakin DIE staters.

[JaredR26]

As simple as a whole number: 1,191

If no candidate reaches that number of delegates we go to a brokered convention and any delegate can vote for any candidate that he or she wishes for.


We aren't going to win the election by basically stealing it due to exploiting the delegate system.

You win the primaries(highest % of delegates coming in), you win the election.
You don't win the primaries, you don't win the election.

Thats how it works. Other candidates delegates won't vote for Ron Paul unless we infiltrate.

How any true Ron Paul supporter could even THINK of stealing something unjustly like that is beyond me. Have you listened to Ron Paul at ALL? Do you believe in what he stands for at ALL?

Thats it. Our support nationwide is 8-10%. Growing at 1% every 2 weeks. Not enough to steal the convention at any rate.

The question at this point is what we do with our support while it is this strong.



I already went through the full range of emotions tonight (anger, sadness, despair, acceptance) and am actually back to HOPE right now. We still do have HOPE people and it's not just for a brokered convention but to WIN NV, MI, and FL. I'm working on FL but I hope you Michiganders and Nevadans are doing the same thing.

The last hope I will have is for a brokered convention. This means that we target delegates and hope to convert them. We will still need to be active in the local GOP's to find out who these delegates are, and a different approach will HAVE to be taken and we'd have to be much much softer.

I hope that those from IA and NH might start working on their delegates already in the case of a brokered convention.

We still have Benito beat on the delegate count and the different according to the leader (Romney) and Paul is only 22: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/

[Misesian]

We aren't going to win the election by basically stealing it due to exploiting the delegate system.

You win the primaries(highest % of delegates coming in), you win the election.
You don't win the primaries, you don't win the election.

Thats how it works. Other candidates delegates won't vote for Ron Paul unless we infiltrate.

How any true Ron Paul supporter could even THINK of stealing something unjustly like that is beyond me. Have you listened to Ron Paul at ALL? Do you believe in what he stands for at ALL?

Thats it. Our support nationwide is 8-10%. Growing at 1% every 2 weeks. Not enough to steal the convention at any rate.

The question at this point is what we do with our support while it is this strong.

Nobody is advocating stealing anything. Did you my post? A brokered convention ALLOWS delegates to vote for whomever they want to.

Read something a little more before being quick to jump on someone's back and scream 'THIEF'.

[JaredR26]

Nobody is advocating stealing anything. Did you my post? A brokered convention ALLOWS delegates to vote for whomever they want to.

Read something a little more before being quick to jump on someone's back and scream 'THIEF'.

You missed the line:
Other candidates delegates will not vote for us.


Thats simply not how it works. They come in with one purpose- If they are the winning candidate, to try to incorporate the desires of every other candidate(and get their support) into the platform. If they are not from the winning candidate, their goal is to get their candidates platform adopted as the party platform in exchange for votes.

They will not vote for Ron Paul, an outsider who the neocons do not like or want. The party will not accept anything from Ron Paul's platform that another candidate(Huckabee) hasn't already stolen.

So the only way we could win a brokered convention is by infiltrating other campaign's delegations. Stealing the election.

[Misesian]

Sorry Jared, you still just don't understand. We could very well already have Ron Paul supporters as delegates pledged towards somebody else in IA and NH.

Read the links that Bradley in DC linked to since they explain what happens including the one caveat that I had no clue about. It sounds as if you don't understand the process about what I'm talking about which is why you keep using words like "stealing the convention" which is absolutely not the case and not what anybody but you is taking about.

[itshappening]

if it's a brokered convention McCain and Huck will team up

[cjhowe]

You missed the line:
Other candidates delegates will not vote for us.


Thats simply not how it works. They come in with one purpose- If they are the winning candidate, to try to incorporate the desires of every other candidate(and get their support) into the platform. If they are not from the winning candidate, their goal is to get their candidates platform adopted as the party platform in exchange for votes.

They will not vote for Ron Paul, an outsider who the neocons do not like or want. The party will not accept anything from Ron Paul's platform that another candidate(Huckabee) hasn't already stolen.

So the only way we could win a brokered convention is by infiltrating other campaign's delegations. Stealing the election.

Precisely, there is A LOT of stuff that goes on at the Republican National Convention. They don't just select a nominee. They decide on platform and on committee positions as well. It's "brokered" for a reason. You can trade your support for the party's nominee for the planks you feel passionately about (ex, if Giuliani comes in limping but viable, the delegates that support him can support pro life language in the platform in exchange for say Huckabee's delegates voting for him or if McCain comes limping in his delegates can trade their nominee vote for pro war language in the platform) There is still a lot of work to do.

[shasshas]

hah SILLY LAST CHANCE OPTIMISM

[JaredR26]

Sorry Jared, you still just don't understand. We could very well already have Ron Paul supporters as delegates pledged towards somebody else in IA and NH.

Read the links that Bradley in DC linked to since they explain what happens including the one caveat that I had no clue about. It sounds as if you don't understand the process about what I'm talking about which is why you keep using words like "stealing the convention" which is absolutely not the case and not what anybody but you is taking about.

Your post indicates you have a very clear understanding of the process and know exactly how to win.

Please, get Ron Paul in the oval office.

[Misesian]

Precisely, there is A LOT of stuff that goes on at the Republican National Convention. They don't just select a nominee. They decide on platform and on committee positions as well. It's "brokered" for a reason. You can trade your support for the party's nominee for the planks you feel passionately about (ex, if Giuliani comes in limping but viable, the delegates that support him can support pro life language in the platform in exchange for say Huckabee's delegates voting for him or if McCain comes limping in his delegates can trade their nominee vote for pro war language in the platform) There is still a lot of work to do.

Are you sure that the process of platform positions is strictly tied to delegates???

Also from what I understand, candidates are able to give as many pledged delegates as they want to over to another candidate. However, still, what I'm talking about is when the delegates are released from their pledged vote and have the ability to vote for anybody they wish. Are you guys saying that if I'm a delegate for FL and say Rudy wins FL, if the convention goes brokered and my pledge is released I cannot vote for Ron????? YES I can.