Bible mentions NWO why do christains no accept our ideas ?

[jbrace]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.

[jbrace]

bump...

[chowdy]

Because People Don't Think. Just Because The Facts Are There Doesn't Mean They Interpret Them The Right Way, If At All.

[Runnerguy]

This is oh so true but the new wave of bought out christianity points the finger at a few good people left like Ron.

[newmedia4ron]

Because you can't prove that the Bible is true. Even if the words were divine at one time they have been edited by man and things could have been lost in translation and things could have been wrongly changed in interpretation.

How can you trust it?

God gave us the critical thinking ability, use it.

[Luther]

Because Christians (in general) are sheep.

[AnalogDan]

Because Christianity, unfortunately, my friend, is collectively as corrupt as the government. The message of the bible is pure, but the people who hide behind it are pushing war with the Muslims more than any other societal group.

[Jeremy]

Wow, some of you guys are pretty prejudice. Way to go!

[123tim]

I'm a Christian - I think that I have the answer that you're looking for.
If you're a Christian I'm sure that you know the answer too:

Almost every Christian that I know goes to Fox exclusively for their news. Nothing else.

We have to change this or we all know what is going to happen.

[leglock]

Wrong forum?

[BuddyRey]

The Bible also says children who misbehave should be stoned to death in the public square, and that trimming your beard is a sin.

I like the Bible, but I take what I read in there with a grain of salt.

[123tim]

"wrong forum"

Yep.

[christagious]

I know of alot of Christians who also believe in the NWO, but they are preterist Christians, so they don't believe that NWO is the same as antichrist.

Plus, even if the mainstream christians did see the correlation between the NWO and the events in Revelation, they would probably think that there is nothing they can do about it since it is "part of God's Plan" and you can't really stop God from doing what is supposed to happen. Most Christians would feel hopeless and just wait for the Rapture or the second coming of Christ instead of getting out and voting for Ron Paul

[Phenom24]

I'm a Christian - I think that I have the answer that you're looking for.
If you're a Christian I'm sure that you know the answer too:

Almost every Christian that I know goes to Fox exclusively for their news. Nothing else.

We have to change this or we all know what is going to happen.


That, and Christians, deep down, seem to WANT a theocracy. They want a Christian President like Huckabee.. Which Constitutionally makes no sense, we should all want our country the way the Founders intended (and we're always calling them Godly men, etc.) but Christians fall into the trap.. "Oooh, he's a Baptist pastor and he's against smoking!!! That sounds great!! He'll make America safe for Christianity!" (the same way America makes the world 'safe for democracy')


The sheep thing is very true as well. My Pastor always said not to believe him, but to read the Bible and learn there.. Don't take his word for it. But people today (seem) to want to be spoon-fed and don't want to think... Why do you think Rush/Sean H./Glenn Beck have such big listening audiences? People just want to have crap dumped into their heads and then regurgitate it eventually.

[Dieseler]

It is written.
Not much prophecy left to reveal.
The time is short.
We were hoping Dr. Paul could help us all turn back time.
I was.
Not for me.
But for my children.

[braeden0613]

Ehh Revelation is highly allegorical, IMO. Not all Christians believe that.

[PaulineDisciple]

For the first 1850 years after Christ many Christians believed that many of those prophecies were fulfilled in the first century. It wasn't until the last 150 years that a system of interpretation know as dispensationalism popularized this kind of speculative interpretation. There are many scholarly works that deal with the history of interpretation and they happen to be much more believable than most modern interpreters that are simply trying to make a fast buck on their speculative interpretation.

Here is a link to many of the best works on the supject.

http://www.americanvision.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=12

[webber53]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.

Perhaps they are not really Christians?

[jbrace]

I'm not hardcore christain either but I realize who ever printed this in the bible. It almost seems like it was there so people could except it. My dad baptist, and I said something about it. He just goes well it's invetible it says it in the bible. I just kinda looked at him like :confused:. It's almost like it was there to control the minds so people would accept a one world goverment. My concern is what if it does happen, and nothing here to save us. We CANT allow this to happen. I dont care what force you have to use to stop it.

[neil]

Not every Christian believes this type (Hagee, Robertson, Falwell, Lindsey, Lahay) of dispensationalism. In fact, 150 years ago this teaching was called herasy.

[ElectRonPaul2008]

Because Christianity, unfortunately, my friend, is collectively as corrupt as the government. The message of the bible is pure, but the people who hide behind it are pushing war with the Muslims more than any other societal group.

You need to ask the question of how did Christianity become so corrupt all of a sudden that it self distructed (look at Europe) in a matter of decades.

You have to ask yourself a question if the people that are pushing for war with Muslims are Christians, or are they professing a different faith.

Who has the vested interested in weakining the Christianity and the way of life that was stable for 2000 years up until the last 100 years.

I think you all know who we are talking about.

Look at who runs the Fed, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the International Bank of Settlements - all private banks disguised as Government institutions.

Did you watch the movie The Money Masters?

Do you know that every phone call in USA is being tracked by one international company, and so are the calls in 25 other countries? Read about it here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=882376).

Learn the facts and spread the knowledge. This is the real gist of the Ron Paul REVOLUTION.

He may not win the election, but the TRUTH has to get out to as many people as possible.

[jbrace]

You need to ask the question of how did Christianity become so corrupt all of a sudden that it self distructed (look at Europe) in a matter of decades.

You have to ask yourself a question if the people that are pushing for war with Muslims are Christians, or are they professing a different faith.

Who has the vested interested in weakining the Christianity and the way of life that was stable for 2000 years up until the last 100 years.

I think you all know who we are talking about.

Look at who runs the Fed, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the International Bank of Settlements - all private banks disguised as Government institutions.

Did you watch the movie The Money Masters?

Do you know that every phone call in USA is being tracked by one international company, and so are the calls in 25 other countries? Read about it here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=882376).

Learn the facts and spread the knowledge. This is the real gist of the Ron Paul REVOLUTION.

He may not win the election, but the TRUTH has to get out to as many people as possible.


Good post. I fairly young.. 19 and I want to be on Dr. Pauls level of what he knows. ( I doubt I will, but I want to be able to convince people to support him)! Politics have really interested me lately. Whats good literature to read?

[Stallion]

Hey,
Long time lurker here...obviously this is my first post. I am a born-again Bible believing Christian and an ardent Paulite! You are absolutely right. The entire book of Revelation is dedicated to the End Times. I personally believe that the "Tribulation" is right around the corner and that the Anti-christ will soon come to power, most likely in Europe. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I also believe that politics and media in America, Europe, and elsewhere are controlled by a ruling elite class. I believe that their ultimate goal is one world government and a false sense of "peace" brought about by force. The Anti-christ comes into play as the leader, the uniter if you will, that will rally an entire world full of "sheep" to the one world government cause, and than will essentially set himself up as dictator. He will also claim to be divine and will mock Christ in many aspects.

As an RP supporter, my hope is that God will spare America from the madness that will engulf the rest of the world, at least for a short time. I believe the destruction of every nation on earth will eventually come about before Christ establishes his 1000 year reign, but the Bible, oddly enough, doesn't mention anything about America when referring to the End Times.

I would not be able to live with myself if I, as a Christian anticipating Christ's return, voted for anyone but Dr. Paul. In doing so, I would be participating in the eventual establishment of the Anti-christ's kingdom. I think Dr. Paul represents America's last gasp at keeping God's blessing that has been bestowed upon her for 200+ years.

It is very frustrating to be a Christian Ron Paul supporter. So many of my fellow believers are sheep. It's like they have blinders over their eyes. They dismiss RP as crazy. I try to point out to them that their beloved Huckabee is a CFR member and just another pawn in this one world government game, but they don't buy it. I have friends that just eat up the fact that Huckabee wears religion on his sleeve and uses the Bible to sell himself to voters. Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit. I don't believe the man is truly born again. I just can't see how he could be, and still be willing to be used by internationalists.

I'm praying, and I'm praying hard, that we can truly bring about change in this nation that is headed for destruction. There is still "Hope for America" and his name is Ron Paul!!!

[christagious]

I know of alot of Christians who also believe in the NWO, but they are preterist Christians, so they don't believe that NWO is the same as antichrist.

Plus, even if the mainstream christians did see the correlation between the NWO and the events in Revelation, they would probably think that there is nothing they can do about it since it is "part of God's Plan" and you can't really stop God from doing what is supposed to happen. Most Christians would feel hopeless and just wait for the Rapture or the second coming of Christ instead of getting out and voting for Ron Paul

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[jbrace]

Hey,
Long time lurker here...obviously this is my first post. I am a born-again Bible believing Christian and an ardent Paulite! You are absolutely right. The entire book of Revelation is dedicated to the End Times. I personally believe that the "Tribulation" is right around the corner and that the Anti-christ will soon come to power, most likely in Europe. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I also believe that politics and media in America, Europe, and elsewhere are controlled by a ruling elite class. I believe that their ultimate goal is one world government and a false sense of "peace" brought about by force. The Anti-christ comes into play as the leader, the uniter if you will, that will rally an entire world full of "sheep" to the one world government cause, and than will essentially set himself up as dictator. He will also claim to be divine and will mock Christ in many aspects.

As an RP supporter, my hope is that God will spare America from the madness that will engulf the rest of the world, at least for a short time. I believe the destruction of every nation on earth will eventually come about before Christ establishes his 1000 year reign, but the Bible, oddly enough, doesn't mention anything about America when referring to the End Times.

I would not be able to live with myself if I, as a Christian anticipating Christ's return, voted for anyone but Dr. Paul. In doing so, I would be participating in the eventual establishment of the Anti-christ's kingdom. I think Dr. Paul represents America's last gasp at keeping God's blessing that has been bestowed upon her for 200+ years.

It is very frustrating to be a Christian Ron Paul supporter. So many of my fellow believers are sheep. It's like they have blinders over their eyes. They dismiss RP as crazy. I try to point out to them that their beloved Huckabee is a CFR member and just another pawn in this one world government game, but they don't buy it. I have friends that just eat up the fact that Huckabee wears religion on his sleeve and uses the Bible to sell himself to voters. Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit. I don't believe the man is truly born again. I just can't see how he could be, and still be willing to be used by internationalists.

I'm praying, and I'm praying hard, that we can truly bring about change in this nation that is headed for destruction. There is still "Hope for America" and his name is Ron Paul!!!

Wow what you said is exactley what I've been feeling. The dictator is suppose to rise out Europe.. and our money will be worthless, thus flooding the streets. ( Euro rising.. dollar declining) We need to figure out how we can reach out to the christians and point this out! This has been bothering me for awhile now.

[zbus12]

Because they are NEO-"[c]hristians" and NOT Christian. Those HUGE bible belt MEGA churches that support people like Huckabee is NOT CHRISTIANITY!!!!!

If you wanna hear a REAL Christians point of view and what is happening to the "church" and it's followers, read THIS article by pastor Chuck Baldwin, fellow Ron Paul supporter, about the so called church and how it compares to the beginning of the Third Reich in Germany as hitler came to power. It is EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY!!!!!!!

[QUOTE]

We Desperately Need The "Confessing Church"
by Chuck Baldwin
January 4, 2008



If the reader has not already done so, I again urge you to read the book, Hitler's Cross, which was written by Erwin Lutzer and published by Moody Press. This book should be "required reading" for every pastor and Christian layman in America. In his book, Lutzer focuses on the attitudes and actions of Germany's pastors and churches during the rise and reign of the Third Reich. It is a masterpiece.

For those of us living in a country and time far removed from Hitler's Germany, it is hard to comprehend how that nation's Christians--and especially its ministers--could have been so thoroughly taken in by old Adolf. We assume such an event could never happen again--especially to us. However, to any honest observer of history, the conditions of the Church in America today are eerily similar to those of the Church in Nazi Germany.

For one thing, as did the Church in Nazi Germany, the Church in America has become infatuated with Big Government. Historically, patriotism in the United States meant love for God, love for family, and love for freedom and independence. Today, however, Christians of all persuasions have come to accept and even embrace the Nanny State, complete with its intrinsic obsession with an omnipotent federal bureaucracy that exercises perpetual surveillance and absolute control over every area of our lives.

For example, according to today's Republican Presidential candidates (with the exception of Ron Paul), patriotism demands that we click our heels to the Department of Homeland Security and that we enthusiastically support aggressive, preemptive war. This is exactly the kind of redefinition of patriotism used so brilliantly by Hitler and his fellow propagandists. Yes, Martha, it appears that history really does repeat itself.

When Ron Paul was asked about Mike Huckabee's overt usage of a cross for a campaign advertisement, he quoted Sinclair Lewis as saying, "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Many Christians railed against Dr. Paul for making this comment. However, the truth is, Ron Paul (himself a committed Christian) is one hundred percent right! (To see how Hitler used this same tactic, I invite readers to note the photograph of the German Fuhrer in Lutzer's book, on page 75, which shows Hitler coming out of church with a large emblem of the Cross directly over his head. This photo was used extensively by Hitler during his political campaigns.)

More than any other Republican Presidential candidate, Mike Huckabee carries his Big Government machinations on a cross. I strongly recommend that readers take a look at Selwyn Duke's excellent exposé on Mike Huckabee at http://www.newswithviews.com/Duke/selwyn79.htm

In his book, Lutzer notes that the tool Adolf Hitler used to ascend to power in Germany was his ability to wrap the Nazi flag around the Cross of Christ. In fact, Hitler often required that the Cross be emblazoned directly in the middle of the Nazi flag. These flags were not only prominently displayed in parades, but also in church auditoriums.

As a result of Hitler's brilliant deception, Christians throughout Germany were convinced that he was "God's man." They saw him as more than a political leader: he was a spiritual leader as well. They saw him as their country's President and as their Christian brother. If Hitler said the German people needed to surrender their firearms, they saw it as their Christian duty to comply; if Hitler said they needed to enact a total surveillance society, they freely gave up their privacy; if Hitler said Germany needed to invade other nations for its security, Christians were among the first to volunteer; and if Hitler said they could only be good Christians if they supported the Nazi Party, they enthusiastically supported the Nazi Party.

In short, Germany's Christians and pastors surrendered their hearts and minds to Adolf Hitler, because they believed him to be one of them. What they never would have surrendered to a professing agnostic, they gladly surrendered to a professing Christian. Truly, fascism came to Germany "wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."

Of course, there were a few in Germany who saw through Hitler's deception. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a Christian minister who actively opposed Hitler by organizing what he called the "Confessing Church." These were believers who would not surrender Christ's sphere of authority to Hitler. They saw through "Hitler's Cross." Unfortunately, of the more than 14,000 pastors in Germany, only 800 joined with Bonhoeffer.

To the vast majority of Germany's pastors, Bonhoeffer was an "extremist," or a "kook," or a "nut." They relegated Bonhoeffer to the fringe of Christendom. They believed Hitler and repudiated Bonhoeffer; they chose Hitler's "German Church" over the Confessing Church. In retrospect, however, who would they follow today, if they had the chance?

Likewise, many Christians and ministers today have succumbed to the purveyors of internationalism. Issues such as trade, climate control, health and education--and even war--are the tools globalists use to contruct their One World Order.

For example, Mike Huckabee's success in Iowa is largely due to the pastors and Christians of that State buying into his "Christian" campaign. In a manner very similar to the 2000 campaign of George W. Bush, Huckabee has carried his political campaign on the Cross. At the same time, however, Mike Huckabee (as does George W. Bush) embraces and promotes globalism. And, unfortunately, many Christians and pastors do not seem to notice or care.

In a previous column (See it here: http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071207.html ), I wrote this:

"Have you wondered why Mike Huckabee is suddenly getting so much favorable attention from the mainstream media (who themselves are controlled by this gaggle of global elite)? To find the answer as to why a professing pro-life, conservative Christian would suddenly become the darling of the media, look no further than the fact that just a couple of months ago, Mr. Huckabee appeared before the globalist-minded Council on Foreign Relations. (Read his speech here: http://www.cfr.org/publication/14335/ ) And when he did, it became abundantly clear that Huckabee was a man globalists could trust.

"By the way, as you read Huckabee's speech, you will find that he is George W. Bush on steroids! This is a man who intends to meddle in the affairs of nations around the world like you can't believe. Talk about entangling alliances: Huckabee intends for our State, Energy, Housing, Education, Justice, Treasury, and Transportation departments to spend untold billions of tax dollars on just about anything and everything, including schools, medical facilities, roads, sewage treatment, water filtration, electricity, and legal and banking systems in countries all over the globe. And that is exactly the kind of man the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) wants in Washington."

After reporting the connection between Mike Huckabee and the CFR, numerous Christians quickly consigned my soul to the regions of the damned and accused me of being a "nut." Some emphatically declared that I had no right to criticize "a Christian brother." Now, who does that sound like?

More importantly, however, is the question, Were my remarks accurate? And the answer is, Yes, they were.

We now learn that Mike Huckabee has named Richard Haass as his advisor on foreign policy. And just who is Richard Haass? He is the President of the CFR. And what does Haass believe? He believes that the United States (and every other country) must surrender its sovereignty to international or global entities. On February 21, 2006, Haass wrote a column for the Taipei Times entitled, "State Sovereignty Must be Altered in Globalized Era." This treatise is nothing more than an explicit solicitation for global government. (Read it here: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2006/02/21/2003294021 )

In his treatise, Haass writes, "For 350 years, sovereignty--the notion that states are the central actors on the world stage and that governments are essentially free to do what they want within their own territory but not within the territory of other states--has provided the organizing principle of international relations. The time has come to rethink this notion."

He also wrote, "Moreover, states must be prepared to cede some sovereignty to world bodies if the international system is to function."

He went on to say, "[S]overeignty must be redefined if states are to cope with globalization."

He further said, "Globalization thus implies that sovereignty is not only becoming weaker in reality, but that it needs to become weaker. States would be wise to weaken sovereignty in order to protect themselves . . . Sovereignty is no longer a sanctuary."

Haass also wrote, "Our notion of sovereignty must therefore be conditional, even contractual, rather than absolute."

Haass then summarized his desire for global government by saying, "The goal should be to redefine sovereignty for the era of globalization, to find a balance between a world of fully sovereign states and an international system of either world government or anarchy."

These are the sentiments of the man that the "Christian conservative" Mike Huckabee has chosen to be his foreign policy advisor. Can you not see how, once again, a global government elitist wraps his Big Government ambitions around the Cross of Jesus Christ?

We desperately need Bonhoeffer's "Confessing Church" in America. If pastors do not quickly wake up to the way most of our politicians--even those who profess to be Christians--are selling out America's sovereignty and independence, our wonderful country will not long survive.

I have attempted to resurrect the "Confessing Church" in the form of a 21st Century "Black Regiment." Students of U.S. history recognize the "Black Regiment" as those Colonial Patriot-Pastors who led their churches to assist the efforts of America's fight for independence. Currently, we have over 100 pastors, evangelists, and missionaries listed on our Black Regiment directory.

See the Black Regiment directory here: http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/blackregiment.php

I, once again, encourage readers to buy Lutzer's book, Hitler's Cross. I'm praying that this time there will arise an army of Dietrich Bonhoeffers to lead a modern-day revival of true patriotism: love for God, love for family, and a strong love and commitment to freedom and independence. Call it the "Confessing Church," or the "Black Regiment." Call it what you will: we need it desperately, and we need it now.

*If you enjoyed this column and want to help me distribute these editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, please send your check or Money Order to:

Chuck Baldwin Live
P.O. Box 37070
Pensacola, Florida 32526

[ElectRonPaul2008]

Good post. I fairly young.. 19 and I want to be on Dr. Pauls level of what he knows. ( I doubt I will, but I want to be able to convince people to support him)! Politics have really interested me lately. Whats good literature to read?


Watch The Money Masters on Google.

Go to major Banks websites and see who is at the helm, find a trend.

That is a start.

[clouds]

I realize one thing. Just because something is going to happen no matter what you do, it doesn't mean you shouldn't fight it. If an antichrist will come into power, would you really be willing to say you were on the sidelines? Of course not, which is why I don't understand some christians. As for christians being sheep, I think it's probably equally true outside of the christian circle as well.

Matthew 11:16-19"How can I account for this generation? The people have been like spoiled children whining to their parents, 'We wanted to skip rope, and you were always too tired; we wanted to talk, but you were always too busy.' John came fasting and they called him crazy. I came feasting and they called me a lush, a friend of the riffraff. Opinion polls don't count for much, do they? The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

[jbrace]

Watch The Money Masters on Google.

Go to major Banks websites and see who is at the helm, find a trend.

That is a start.

watching that right now. Thanks guys for the support. We all dont need to forget we are here for one reason. It's nice to have something like this. Feels like family. :)

[Dieseler]

Hey,
Long time lurker here...obviously this is my first post. I am a born-again Bible believing Christian and an ardent Paulite! You are absolutely right. The entire book of Revelation is dedicated to the End Times. I personally believe that the "Tribulation" is right around the corner and that the Anti-christ will soon come to power, most likely in Europe. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I also believe that politics and media in America, Europe, and elsewhere are controlled by a ruling elite class. I believe that their ultimate goal is one world government and a false sense of "peace" brought about by force. The Anti-christ comes into play as the leader, the uniter if you will, that will rally an entire world full of "sheep" to the one world government cause, and than will essentially set himself up as dictator. He will also claim to be divine and will mock Christ in many aspects.

As an RP supporter, my hope is that God will spare America from the madness that will engulf the rest of the world, at least for a short time. I believe the destruction of every nation on earth will eventually come about before Christ establishes his 1000 year reign, but the Bible, oddly enough, doesn't mention anything about America when referring to the End Times.

I would not be able to live with myself if I, as a Christian anticipating Christ's return, voted for anyone but Dr. Paul. In doing so, I would be participating in the eventual establishment of the Anti-christ's kingdom. I think Dr. Paul represents America's last gasp at keeping God's blessing that has been bestowed upon her for 200+ years.

It is very frustrating to be a Christian Ron Paul supporter. So many of my fellow believers are sheep. It's like they have blinders over their eyes. They dismiss RP as crazy. I try to point out to them that their beloved Huckabee is a CFR member and just another pawn in this one world government game, but they don't buy it. I have friends that just eat up the fact that Huckabee wears religion on his sleeve and uses the Bible to sell himself to voters. Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit. I don't believe the man is truly born again. I just can't see how he could be, and still be willing to be used by internationalists.

I'm praying, and I'm praying hard, that we can truly bring about change in this nation that is headed for destruction. There is still "Hope for America" and his name is Ron Paul!!!

Wow stallion.
You are definitely not a Troll.
Welcome aboard!!

[Dieseler]

Watch The Money Masters on Google.

Go to major Banks websites and see who is at the helm, find a trend.

That is a start.

I agree with you there. Can't say it out loud lest you be stoned, but if you follow the money and do the research you will see who is going to place the beast in the temple and commit the abomination of desolation.
Not at all who people generally would think is it?

[ElectRonPaul2008]

I agree with you there. Can't say it out loud lest you be stoned, but if you follow the money and do the research you will see who is going to place the beast in the temple and commit the abomination of desolation.
Not at all who people generally would think is it?

This whole election is a sham, a show for those who don't yet know the truth. The reality is the Democracy was abolished a while ago. There is not a single government in the West that is not controlled.

There will be no peaceful resolution of this. It is either slavery or armed revolt.

[dircha]

Speaking as a conservative, evangelical Christian, I can tell you that the majority of evangelical Christians default to the belief that going to war and blindly following this President are part and parcel to being a Christian.

But as a matter of fact, any Bible-believing Christian, who believes the message of Romans 13, should know that the God-ordained and established law of this land is the Constitution, which establishes the lawful boundaries of federal civil government. And any leader or representative who acts contrary to the Constitution rejects the authority of God and condemns himself. America has become a lawless nation and by their refusal to hold their leaders to account, Americans invite God's judgment. Christians must cry out for leaders who will uphold the Constitution for it is the God-ordained and established law of the land to which our leaders and representatives must submit.

Congressman Paul is the only candidate in this race who Bible-believing Christians can vote for.

[jbrace]

Speaking as a conservative, evangelical Christian, I can tell you that the majority of evangelical Christians default to the belief that going to war and blindly following this President are part and parcel to being a Christian.

But as a matter of fact, any Bible-believing Christian, who believes the message of Romans 13, should know that the God-ordained and established law of this land is the Constitution, which establishes the lawful boundaries of federal civil government. And any leader or representative who acts contrary to the Constitution rejects the authority of God and condemns himself. America has become a lawless nation and by their refusal to hold their leaders to account, Americans invite God's judgment. Christians must cry out for leaders who will uphold the Constitution for it is the God-ordained and established law of the land to which our leaders and representatives must submit.

Congressman Paul is the only candidate in this race who Bible-believing Christians can vote for.

Amen.. I pledge to uphold the constitution. Who's with me?

[dircha]

The Bible also says children who misbehave should be stoned to death in the public square, and that trimming your beard is a sin.

I like the Bible, but I take what I read in there with a grain of salt.

The Levitical laws you cite were peculiar to God's covenant with the Israelites through Moses at Sinai.

Whereas we live under God's new covenant established through Christ and are not bound by the terms of the covenant at Sinai.

[clouds]

Speaking as a conservative, evangelical Christian, I can tell you that the majority of evangelical Christians default to the belief that going to war and blindly following this President are part and parcel to being a Christian.

But as a matter of fact, any Bible-believing Christian, who believes the message of Romans 13, should know that the God-ordained and established law of this land is the Constitution, which establishes the lawful boundaries of federal civil government. And any leader or representative who acts contrary to the Constitution rejects the authority of God and condemns himself. America has become a lawless nation and by their refusal to hold their leaders to account, Americans invite God's judgment. Christians must cry out for leaders who will uphold the Constitution for it is the God-ordained and established law of the land to which our leaders and representatives must submit.

Congressman Paul is the only candidate in this race who Bible-believing Christians can vote for.

I agree. I'm in a church of around a 1000. i'm debating speaking in front of them, and leaving them with one question: should we be following the president or the constitution?

[dannno]

I wonder if people voting for Obama realize that we'll probably end up with Hillary as a VP?

[dircha]

I agree. I'm in a church of around a 1000. i'm debating speaking in front of them, and leaving them with one question: should we be following the president or the constitution?

That would be amazing. If you do, and it goes well, you should consider making a recording available somewhere. A faithful understanding of the role of Constitutional government in this nation in the context of Romans 13 is deeply empowering.

In a time when Christians are increasingly throwing their support behind liberal social movements in an effort to regain relevance, only to find themselves increasingly divided and marginalized, the Biblical message of return to God-ordained and established Constitutional civil government, is a message Christians can and must unite behind.

[clouds]

I'm working on somethings to say. When I'm done I will definitely post on here for help and correction.

definitely using this:

Matthew 7:15-20
"Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don't be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned."
and just a few verses later:28-29
"When Jesus concluded his address, the crowd burst into applause. They had never heard teaching like this. It was apparent that he was living everything he was saying—quite a contrast to their religion teachers! This was the best teaching they had ever heard."

[Stallion]

Amen.. I pledge to uphold the constitution. Who's with me?

Count me in!

Guys, we have only seen the beginning of this revolution!

[autobot]

I'm working on somethings to say. When I'm done I will definitely post on here for help and correction.

definitely using this:

Matthew 7:15-20
"Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don't be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned."
and just a few verses later:28-29
"When Jesus concluded his address, the crowd burst into applause. They had never heard teaching like this. It was apparent that he was living everything he was saying—quite a contrast to their religion teachers! This was the best teaching they had ever heard."


Woaw, what version is this??? Really strange

[Fox McCloud]

Woaw, what version is this??? Really strange

my thoughts exactly....sorry, but I only trust the King James Version and the Geneva Bible.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." -Matthew 7:15-20 KJV

Matthew 7:28-29 KJV-- "And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes."

[wildflower]

Because Christians (in general) are sheep.

^ This, folks, is one of the reasons why more Christians aren't coming to the RP revolution. The Christian bashing here (by a few vocal atheists) is NOT welcoming to Christians at all, it is counterproductive.

If I wasn't already an RP supporter, and came to this forum, I would probably be put off to supporting Dr. Paul just based on some of the nasty rude comments like the one above.

[wildflower]

Because you can't prove that the Bible is true. Even if the words were divine at one time they have been edited by man and things could have been lost in translation and things could have been wrongly changed in interpretation.

How can you trust it?

God gave us the critical thinking ability, use it.

Um, re-read the original post. He asked why Christians were not accepting our ideas here, when the bible talks about a coming global government.

Christians believe the bible - so the OP's question is valid, why are not more Christians coming on board?

Your answer was "because the bible can't be proved"? lol, Christians already believe the bible - so your statement that it hasn't been proved has nothing to do with the question at hand. We believe the bible is inspired by God and that there is ample evidence that corroborates the scriptures.

I just wanted to point out that you didn't answer the actual question asked.

[wildflower]

Woaw, what version is this??? Really strange

I think it's "the Message" version. But don't quote me on that. :)

[PatriotOne]

...

[Fox McCloud]

Those Christians who are aware of the New World Order, I've found, back Ron Paul...those who do no, back the New World Order sell-out, Huckabee.

it's a shame Christians are so ignorant of their own Bible and the world around them.....I'll be the first to admit I was one who would have voted for Huckabee 5 years ago...but the Lord showed me a few things (praise him for that).

[Dr.3D]

Read Ezekiel 9:4-11 and then 1 Peter 4:17
Now think to yourself does this apply to our situation.

[RPFP]

We only have 4 more years left right? I mean who do you believe, a book written by man, translated, rewritten, dissected, and polished for the church. Or do you believe a bunch of "primitive" people who got wiped out by the Spanish.


I dont know, i'm just going to live day by day. I'm sorry, I dont give much faith in a book that was written by a corrupt bunch of thugs that rate along side the banking cartels and transcontinental mafia organizations.


I think this link says it best

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3595159758696320986&q=george+carlin+religion&total=107&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Dieseler]

We only have 4 more years left right? I mean who do you believe, a book written by man, translated, rewritten, dissected, and polished for the church. Or do you believe a bunch of "primitive" people who got wiped out by the Spanish.


I dont know, i'm just going to live day by day. I'm sorry, I dont give much faith in a book that was written by a corrupt bunch of thugs that rate along side the banking cartels and transcontinental mafia organizations.


I think this link says it best

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3595159758696320986&q=george+carlin+religion&total=107&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Maybe you should try actually reading it.
Ron Paul does.

[RPFP]

I have read the bible. I grew up going to a christian school. I lost my faith, I'm sorry.

[Dave Pedersen]

www.shepherdschapel.com

Go there for biblical truth concerning end time events, not for political insight.

[Dieseler]

www.shepherdschapel.com

Go there for biblical truth concerning end time events, not for political insight.

I could listen to that old guy for hours.

[Dieseler]

I have read the bible. I grew up going to a christian school. I lost my faith, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry to hear that.
In your deepest despair I hope you hope you find it again.
You will need it the very most at that time.

[RPFP]

I'm sorry to hear that.
In your deepest despair I hope you hope you find it again.
You will need it the very most at that time.

I appricate your concern. I lost my faith at the deepest despair of my life. I dont think things can ever get as bad as they were when I just gave up. I still pray every now and then. The prayers are ONLY for my grandma, mother, and friends who need it. Deep down, I kinda still believe, I resent religion though.

[eloquensanity]

Hey,
Long time lurker here...obviously this is my first post. I am a born-again Bible believing Christian and an ardent Paulite! You are absolutely right. The entire book of Revelation is dedicated to the End Times. I personally believe that the "Tribulation" is right around the corner and that the Anti-christ will soon come to power, most likely in Europe. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I also believe that politics and media in America, Europe, and elsewhere are controlled by a ruling elite class. I believe that their ultimate goal is one world government and a false sense of "peace" brought about by force. The Anti-christ comes into play as the leader, the uniter if you will, that will rally an entire world full of "sheep" to the one world government cause, and than will essentially set himself up as dictator. He will also claim to be divine and will mock Christ in many aspects.

As an RP supporter, my hope is that God will spare America from the madness that will engulf the rest of the world, at least for a short time. I believe the destruction of every nation on earth will eventually come about before Christ establishes his 1000 year reign, but the Bible, oddly enough, doesn't mention anything about America when referring to the End Times.

I would not be able to live with myself if I, as a Christian anticipating Christ's return, voted for anyone but Dr. Paul. In doing so, I would be participating in the eventual establishment of the Anti-christ's kingdom. I think Dr. Paul represents America's last gasp at keeping God's blessing that has been bestowed upon her for 200+ years.

It is very frustrating to be a Christian Ron Paul supporter. So many of my fellow believers are sheep. It's like they have blinders over their eyes. They dismiss RP as crazy. I try to point out to them that their beloved Huckabee is a CFR member and just another pawn in this one world government game, but they don't buy it. I have friends that just eat up the fact that Huckabee wears religion on his sleeve and uses the Bible to sell himself to voters. Quite frankly, it makes me want to vomit. I don't believe the man is truly born again. I just can't see how he could be, and still be willing to be used by internationalists.

I'm praying, and I'm praying hard, that we can truly bring about change in this nation that is headed for destruction. There is still "Hope for America" and his name is Ron Paul!!!

My same thoughts.
I wonder if this movement has to do with the deadly wound, but I agree this country is not mentioned in prophecy as one of the players.

[eloquensanity]

www.shepherdschapel.com

Go there for biblical truth concerning end time events, not for political insight.

Been studying with him for over 10 years. No religion there just the truth.

[joey]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.



most, if not all, end of the world(age)prophecy happened in 70 a.d..dan 2,8,9,10,11,12 matt 24 ect ect already happened....

[V4Vendetta]

Good question.... I am a Life long Christian Myself.... I have asked myself this, several times.

Sadly, the one group most asleep in this country are the Christians.
They refuse to believe that they could be so badly betrayed by a President, Congress, that professes to be Christians.... so they choose to turn away from the truth and do everything they can to avoid learning the truth about modern day America........

As it would completely breakdown their belief system!

That is not something most people can handle.

I, myself, had a very hard time seeing the wolf, through the sheep's clothing. I spent weeks being physically sick at what I was learning.

Sadly..... The Christians will not wake up until they have a Government agent knocking on their door, asking them if they are ready for their micro-chip implant.

By that time.... millions of Christians will die.

Pray for God to have mercy on America... for their are still good people here.

[Wendi]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.

Because the vast majority of Christians are more comfortable ignoring the book of Revelation and listening to those feel-good preachers that say it doesn't matter because we'll be "rapured" out of this world before anything bad happens. This is also why so many of them think going to war in the middle east is a good thing - they're convinced we can bring on armageddon and God will "rapture" us sooner :eek: :rolleyes:

And no, as tempting as it is, I don't think Paul pointing this out would do us much good in the voting booth ;)

[Sematary]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.

Being an atheist and someone who has actually read up on this specific section of the bible I have come to some conclusions. So here is what I think.

If you think about it - what is every Christian waiting for? They are waiting for the return of Christ to begin his reign of 1000 years. Correct? It is prophesied in the bible - they WANT it to happen. That would be tantamount to having all of your dreams come true. Correct? So WHY would they want to slow it down or stop it? If anything, as Huckleberry as shown, I would EXPECT them to PARTICIPATE in hastening the coming of a world government so that they day when they could reside in the kingdom would come as quickly as possible.
Just a thought.

[Ginobili]

I have to admit it... I was an ex-main stream christian :*(. Only 17, but w/e.
Most of the people at my church mainly go because they did it as a kid, its become a habit. I try to press Ron Paul there, but, from what i've seen, it only phases the young people. The older people (not all) simply seem to have been told lies by the goverment, and been fed christianity all their life, that, true or not, they are going to believe it. When your told the same thing for 30, 40, 50+ years, it becomes the "truth", true or not. And I think these people like being told what the truth is, what is good, whats bad, because they have never had to think for them selves.

In school, you rarely have to think for your self. In (modern) church, you rarely have to think for yourself. With the news, you let them think for you, and its become a habit to just accept what you hear with unquestioning loyalty. And when some one like Huckabee comes along, who is mislead just like you, he seems EXTREMELY appealing, much more so then this "Ron Paul guy..." who is out there thinking, using common sense, and not saying what every one else says.

War is Peace.
Ignorance is Freedom.
(what was the third one agian?)

[SovereignMN]

I am a born-again evangelical Christian. People need to realize that Christians are no different than ALL other groups of people in this country...we are human and we are not perfect. Thus, like ALL other groups in this country (atheists, blacks, whites, jews, etc) we are easily led astray by the lies and deceits of this world.

[hopeforthefuture]

I'm a Christian - I think that I have the answer that you're looking for.
If you're a Christian I'm sure that you know the answer too:

Almost every Christian that I know goes to Fox exclusively for their news. Nothing else.

We have to change this or we all know what is going to happen.


SO TRUE! I even had a pastor say from the pulpit that he only watches Fox! It's supposedly the "conservative" news channel. Sometimes I feel like jumping up in church and just start telling everyone how deceived they are.

[Give me liberty]

Because Christians believe that the real antichirst is in the middle east:rolleyes:
Which has been proven fasle

They even thought that saddam was mabus and he was the Antichrist lol

[moostraks]

Being an atheist and someone who has actually read up on this specific section of the bible I have come to some conclusions. So here is what I think.

If you think about it - what is every Christian waiting for? They are waiting for the return of Christ to begin his reign of 1000 years. Correct? It is prophesied in the bible - they WANT it to happen. That would be tantamount to having all of your dreams come true. Correct? So WHY would they want to slow it down or stop it? If anything, as Huckleberry as shown, I would EXPECT them to PARTICIPATE in hastening the coming of a world government so that they day when they could reside in the kingdom would come as quickly as possible.
Just a thought.

Wow...okay major misinterpretation on your part here. I am a Christian and the last place I want to be or want my children to be is here when the stuff hits the fan as Jesus promised would occur.

[minitri97]

um....ok, lets see
Noahs Ark
Water into wine
parting the red sea
oh, yeah, and dieing on the cross and then magically rising to heaven.

Thats why I have problem with what the bible says.

[LibertyRevolution]

I am under the impression that christians welcome the end times, they seek the second comming of jesus, and thats why they are trying to establish a new world order, and all the fighting in the holyland.

[moostraks]

I see a good deal of broad brush painting being done of Christians on this forum. We are not all Huckabee supporters. Most of those are duped by their feel good McChurches to believe that G*d has ordained minister Huckabee. That is why he singlehandly creeps me OUT!! You could not make a B movie which reads any cheesier than his forum does sometimes(and yes I know the difference from the spoof one!!) These are the Christians you will never be able to draw in. They think that Paul is all about whore houses and pro-abortion. You would explain states rights until you're blue in the face and they would still not get it....FOX owns them. They forgot (or never learned) that Jesus sat with the sinners and the whores and never gave a whits worth of care what others thought. He gave people a choice, and told you the consequences of each choice, but he let you choose...

For the atheist sceptics, take a read of the book of Revelations. Might rock your world just how much things are coming together. The writing is on the wall, all we can do is postpone things. This is why real Christians hear Dr.Paul speak and are in love. The man walks the talk.

The road is hard and no one likes to sacrifice anything. I can't understand why they think that G*d of the Bible promises personal prosperity and ease in our earthly body. I am tired of a bunch of individuals thinking they have a right to promise the blood of my children to fight their Holy War. This is not how we as Christians are called to react to others.

Many of the Christians you could get to relate to Dr.Paul dropped out of society or never joined. They are the members of the Peace churchs. It would be hard to get them past the level of distrust they have for the government and anyone who seeks office...:(

[cageybee]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.

Ron Paul is Jesus?

[moostraks]

um....ok, lets see
Noahs Ark
Water into wine
parting the red sea
oh, yeah, and dieing on the cross and then magically rising to heaven.

Thats why I have problem with what the bible says.

What about a premonition that 2000+ years in the future you would get a mark on the hand or forrehead to be able to trade and having them invent a microchip that is being used right now that does this very thing???

[minitri97]

What about a premonition that 2000+ years in the future you would get a mark on the hand or forrehead to be able to trade and having them invent a microchip that is being used right now that does this very thing???

LOL, tell ya what, I'm gonna make 5000 statements that I think will happen in the next 2000 years....you think I will find people in 2000 years that will skew them to be true?

[minitri97]

And by the way, I have no mark on the hand or microchip.

[bomybomy]

I'm a Christian - I think that I have the answer that you're looking for.
If you're a Christian I'm sure that you know the answer too:

Almost every Christian that I know goes to Fox exclusively for their news. Nothing else.

We have to change this or we all know what is going to happen.

This is accurate, with the older "been in church all my life" types. I deal with it a lot.

[liberty_Forever]

I am a Christian, and no, I don't want a theocracy. I just want to live in peace.

Personally, I do not take the Bible *literally*, however there are mythical features which appear to be coming true. These myths warn Christians on how to take care of ourselves and others. I do believe the NWO is real and we must resist those who do violence and evil upon mankind. The whole details, the "Bible-debunkers" miss the point because Christianity is about the message of forgiveness and compassion, like all true human religions.

Of course I do not believe the Earth is 4000 years old. . . I just want to live in a world of positive human values such as kindness.

I respect Athiests, Muslims, Jews, etc ,and I enjoy sharing the world with others, but I do not respect those (the NWO) who wish to manipulate the world for their own selfish evil purposes.

[zr4]

[QUOTE=minitri97;1058325]um....ok, lets see
Noahs Ark
Water into wine
parting the red sea
oh, yeah, and dieing on the cross and then magically rising to heaven.

Thats why I have problem with what the bible says.[/QUOTE

An interesting fact is there have been chariot wheels found at the sight that are from the time period of the parting of the Red Sea.

[DarkLaw]

The so-called 'Mark of the Beast - which will be displayed in the people's RIGHT hand...

is the national REAL ID. What hand do you hand your driver's license to someone with?

Duh.


And I'm sooooo not religious. But wanted to make a point.

[moostraks]

And by the way, I have no mark on the hand or microchip.

Did not say you did...Just said that one is to uncanny for me. Don't see how you can get any other view on it.

Revelation 13:17 (New International Version)
17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name
The technology is being used. Now why in the world other than true revelation would an old man on an island 2000 years ago forsee this technology??

Furthermore:Revelation 16:2 (New International Version)
2The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.

Guess what- the nifty little biochip causes cancer and rejection reactions because it is a foreign synthetic material.

They are wanting to use it for prisoners and the military, they are already using it on Alzheimers patients, and they will sell it to new parents on the same fear factor as this Holy War. You wouldn't want little Johnny to be kidnapped because you did not protect him, right? First they force it on those who can't refuse, then they sell you on what a great improvement it will be to your life, then you will have no choice. We are in phase 1-2.No, I don't think people are reading into these scriptures any tea leaf prophecies, but do as you chose. Just like voting for Paul, I will do my best to provide my children with a safe and secure future and leave the rest to G*d's will....

[bkreigh]

[QUOTE=minitri97;1058325]um....ok, lets see
Noahs Ark
Water into wine
parting the red sea
oh, yeah, and dieing on the cross and then magically rising to heaven.

Thats why I have problem with what the bible says.[/QUOTE

An interesting fact is there have been chariot wheels found at the sight that are from the time period of the parting of the Red Sea.

I havent heard of that. Is there any documentation? Im not saying that you are not telling the truth i just havent heard of it.

What about the others problems minitri has problems with? These are also questions i have with bible along with others. I am an atheist but am open to learn. I honestly cant get out of the first book before i start calling shenanigans on the bible.

[therealjjj77]

Interestingly enough, there are some in my church who have almost instinctively understood what Huckabee is all about and cannot bring themselves to vote for him. It's just getting them to see that any of the other candidates, beside Ron Paul, are all going to move that direction too. It's not like their TV has a sign that says: "Look! Look! A globalist/NWO guy!" It's one of the least discussed subjects on Fox, if it ever is discussed.

[moostraks]

[QUOTE=zr4;1058617]

I havent heard of that. Is there any documentation? Im not saying that you are not telling the truth i just havent heard of it.

What about the others problems minitri has problems with? These are also questions i have with bible along with others. I am an atheist but am open to learn. I honestly cant get out of the first book before i start calling shenanigans on the bible.

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

Try the pictures here. Looks fair enough...I think the History Channel did something on this, but most of their works on the Bible are sketchy at best. They don't know research if it came up and bit them.

Everyone is entitled to reason to make a freewill choice. I have found as many do, it takes more faith in illogical reasoning to be an atheist imho. I have been all over the road map spiritually and analyzed a lot of views.:)

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

I have met some Christians through the years that wish the NWO would hurry up and take over and get it over with so Jesus will come back sooner and save us all. Consequently they stand by doing nothing, and place their faith in some words written by men.

I was a born again Christian for awhile in the mid 90's before I started to see the bigger picture, so I know full well how alluring and powerful that trap can be. There's not much you can do for them except pick up their slack in this battle.

On a side note, for you Christians out there who try to prove your points with bible passages, you just look silly to everyone else. You can't convince them of absolutely anything with excerpts from something that is considered by them to be a fraud. You may as well be quoting passages from a book of fairy tales. In the eyes of everyone else, they carry about the same weight.

[therealjjj77]

[QUOTE=minitri97;1058325]um....ok, lets see
Noahs Ark
Water into wine
parting the red sea
oh, yeah, and dieing on the cross and then magically rising to heaven.

Thats why I have problem with what the bible says.[/QUOTE

An interesting fact is there have been chariot wheels found at the sight that are from the time period of the parting of the Red Sea.

With the understanding that God created it and he can change things as he pleases, those things happening don't seem that odd.

I used to be an athiest, but when God deals with you and shows you your destination, it's hard to go on pretending he doesn't exist. That's why I turned to him instead of continuing to try to ignore him.

Keep in mind that the writers of the 4 gospels all received heavy persecution, before, during, and after they wrote those books. Their testimony eventually ended with their death. They didn't get an easy life from reporting what they saw. And their reports were very much accurate to what you would find if you were interviewing 4 witnesses of a car accident. Four different perspectives of the same events.

It's highly improbable that a few untrained guys broke through a guard of 100 centurion soldiers, the best of the best at that time, and stole the body of Christ.

It's highly improbable that they would go on to write the same account of Jesus Christ being seen by many after his death, on several different occasions.

[moostraks]

On a side note, for you Christians out there who try to prove your points with bible passages, you just look silly to everyone else. You can't convince them of absolutely anything with excerpts from something that is considered by them to be a fraud. You may as well be quoting passages from a book of fairy tales. In the eyes of everyone else, they carry about the same weight.

Nice snarky little comment. I believe to each his own. If someone is making assumptions and mocking, I will point out what makes obvious sense to us based on what we see as evidence. You are entitled to take it or leave it. Some dismiss the entire Bible because they see unreality because they were not there. I merely brought up something that is uncanny to me, take it or leave it, to each his own. Your comment of shut up or present facts that you see as valid on your plane of reference is limiting and self-serving. Might as well be in Huck's forum as to be here sometimes...BTW you should realize you do not represent everyone else on this board, you are one voice....:)

[Sandy]

I think it's "the Message" version. But don't quote me on that. :)

Really stay away from that thing. I only trust the KJV, not sure of the Geneva that someone mentioned. The globalists infiltrated and came up with their own Bible versions changing, adding to, and rewording things, which we all know is a no no. New ones keep coming out like 'The Message', the newer the more they turn God's word upside down.

Schofield was one person who was a part of changing things and creating new versions.

[Captain Shays]

Please. Any Christians here visit www.christiansforronpaul.com
and join in the forums, provide any new information that is helpful. When Christians who may be wavering between Hckabee and Paul or some other candidate search the net for information they may get there some how and we can comvince them. We can also direct our brothers and sisters to the site.

Its really up to us to re-educate those who have been used, hoodwinked and decieved by the policital machine of this country.

[paulgirl]

It's important for Christians to remember that the Bible teaches that no one is going to see the truth unless the Lord opens his eyes. You can't force a blind man to see anything.

The person who started this thread is obviously a dispensationalist. Part of the problem among Christians is that there are different eschatological views and different hermeneutical approaches to Revelation.

God has ordained how this world will end and what events will take place before He comes back to judge it. While those who believe MUST oppose evil, we know that certain things ARE going to happen, like it or not. Unfortunately we know that things are going to get very bad for us for a time, and that we are going to go through heavy persecution.

Fortunately, the worst they can take is our lives, not our souls. Unbelievers must worry endlessly about trying to stop things, because their physical posessions and lives are all that they have got.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Nice snarky little comment. I believe to each his own. If someone is making assumptions and mocking, I will point out what makes obvious sense to us based on what we see as evidence. You are entitled to take it or leave it. Some dismiss the entire Bible because they see unreality because they were not there. I merely brought up something that is uncanny to me, take it or leave it, to each his own. Your comment of shut up or present facts that you see as valid on your plane of reference is limiting and self-serving. Might as well be in Huck's forum as to be here sometimes...BTW you should realize you do not represent everyone else on this board, you are one voice....:)

Think of it in these terms. Could someone possibly convince you that Mormonism is the true path by quoting from the Book of Mormon? Would their arguments carry any weight with you at all?

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

It's important for Christians to remember that the Bible teaches that no one is going to see the truth unless the Lord opens his eyes. You can't force a blind man to see anything.

The person who started this thread is obviously a dispensationalist. Part of the problem among Christians is that there are different eschatological views and different hermeneutical approaches to Revelation.

God has ordained how this world will end and what events will take place before He comes back to judge it. While those who believe MUST oppose evil, we know that certain things ARE going to happen, like it or not. Unfortunately we know that things are going to get very bad for us for a time, and that we are going to go through heavy persecution.

Fortunately, the worst they can take is our lives, not our souls. Unbelievers must worry endlessly about trying to stop things, because their physical posessions and lives are all that they have got.

As most Christians do, you are equating belief in God with belief in the Christian bible. They are not one and the same.

[moostraks]

Think of it in these terms. Could someone possibly convince you that Mormonism is the true path by quoting from the Book of Mormon? Would their arguments carry any weight with you at all?

I would think that I would be open minded enough to know that they have a logic for their reasoning. I am not trying to convince you or anyone else with a closed mind to see anything. I am but refuting the rudeness from an individual who sees fit to mock those who disagree with them from a position of superiority that there is some uncanniness to the revelations of John. You and anyone else may do with it as they see fit.

I certainly do not believe that I would have such poor manners as to tell someone to be quiet on a thread unless they can address me in regards to their religion based on my frame of reference. With your analogy of Mormonism how exactly could you explain the philosophy without using what in the Book of Mormon convinces you it is divine revelation??:confused:

BTW for the record Mormons are Christian, and I have done minor research on their beliefs but chose to stick to the NASB Bible. It is the most literal translation of the old text. I am not dismissive of others choices, this is mine and the one I will answer for chosing in the end. Just like everyone is entitled to chose their religion. Religion provides the framework for one's interaction to the world.

Furthermore, I personnally did not stop there but did provide a link to a website that shows some archaelogical history that may indicate the validity of one facet of the Bible. Now if I was a glutton for punishment I could continue to try to validate my position with reams of work done which indicates the truthfulness of the Bible while you could do the same from your side dismissing them because facts of this nature are subject to perception which is always colored by one's spirirtual beliefs.

When someone can give me an absolute legitimate argument on how an old man on a deserted island 2000 years ago could conceive of something that comes as close as we are to the rfid implant along with its reaction through cancerous growth and rejection due to synthetic material usage, I will see their point. I probably won't agree but I will concede they have a reason to their logic. I doubt an odds maker would put odds on coincidence here. How could he have seen something this close?

Perhaps we should get back to the original attempt of this thread and realize why many Christians don't want to join with Dr.Paul...I stand by my statement that the real Christians, who can get past the media spin and hear his message, fall in love with him. He is one of US!!! However, the majority of Christians who could relate to him are not mainstream. It is the ugliness and decadence of today's society that has bred a need for seperation.A non-theist reacts with political apathy.

Many of the Christians you need to target believe just by the very nature of running for office you have a character flaw due to a need for self glorification. You cannot look in the mainstream Christian churches for converts, they are following a different agenda. Most of them have already been duped. They are too busy praying for material goods. As a Christian I am trying to explain to you this is prophesied to Christians. Now as such, Christians(please step out of your comfort zone and hear the reasoning from the only frame of reference I can give you) are held accountible for being discerning.

The purpose of the Bible is like a parent warning their child. It tells you how to make life work. The intent is not for the Book to be used by people to enslave people, but to free them. It warns us what to see as signs we have come too far as a society and need to regroup...FAST! Now you and other non-theists have come to a similar conclusion,possibly, that our society needs a Dr.Paul to right our current situation. Christians just have the benefit of biblical insight as to just how bad things are going to get, imho. Problem is that we are divided in how to deal with this issue as Christians:drop out of society and live the best life possible,believe that the saviour(Huckabee or one like him) has been annointed by God and will fix things, or those who get behind someone like Paul and pray we can reverse some of the damage. I am in the last group. I have an obligation to try my best to correct the current situation. The rest, based on my beliefs, is in G*d's hands.....

[werdd]

alot of christians want the end times, they want to be re-united with their god. In that sense, they are everybit as crazy as the muslims strapping bombs and awaiting 99 virgins.

[jumpyg1258]

The message of the bible is pure

Are you sure about that? From what I know its just a collection of stories from various regions of the middle east all plomped into one book with some changes here and there to try to make sense of the whole thing.

For Example:
The story of Noah and his ark did not originate from the bible. The first writings of the story actually are in Assyro-Babylonian mythology.

Written in Akkadian (the language of ancient Babylon), it tells how the god Enki warns the hero Atrahasis of Shuruppak to dismantle his house and build a boat to escape a flood with which the god Enlil, angered by the noise of the cities, plans to wipe out mankind. The boat is to have a roof, upper and lower decks, and must be sealed with bitumen. Atrahasis boards the boat with his family and animals and seals the door. Then after seven days the flood ends and Atrahasis offers various sacrifices.

[moostraks]

Are you sure about that? From what I know its just a collection of stories from various regions of the middle east all plomped into one book with some changes here and there to try to make sense of the whole thing.

For Example:
The story of Noah and his ark did not originate from the bible. The first writings of the story actually are in Assyro-Babylonian mythology.

Written in Akkadian (the language of ancient Babylon), it tells how the god Enki warns the hero Atrahasis of Shuruppak to dismantle his house and build a boat to escape a flood with which the god Enlil, angered by the noise of the cities, plans to wipe out mankind. The boat is to have a roof, upper and lower decks, and must be sealed with bitumen. Atrahasis boards the boat with his family and animals and seals the door. Then after seven days the flood ends and Atrahasis offers various sacrifices.

Are you sure?? All investigation comes from some presupposition. Why is your view of this being a more accurate situation more valid then those who disagree with you?

What we can agree on may be that very diverse nations have a flood story. So many so that it seems that the flood story is an actual recollection of a catastrophic event. Dismissing its occurence in the first place seems rather difficult considering the overwhelming amount of literature written on it. Therefore, allowing its existence, you chose as an individual the version that aligns with your personal spiritual beliefs....:)

[jumpyg1258]

Are you sure?? All investigation comes from some presupposition. Why is your view of this being a more accurate situation more valid then those who disagree with you?

Why is it a view when its a fact that the bible's stories are pulled from other stories, I was just giving an example with the Noah story.

Tell me, do you believe that the christian god is omnipetent? If so then why did it take him seven days to create the earth and everything else? Why couldnt he do it in a second if he is all powerful? To be limited on what you can do in a day assumes that one is limited in his/hers powers hence not omnipetent. This being may be some higher form of life but by the statements just made in the first section of the bible, this proves that this being is not god. Also if this being is a god, then why is he affected by linear time, a concept that is not a constant and is affected by one's relative speed? The bible is full of so many fallacies, to believe it is real is just ludicrous.

BTW I find this poster so accurate.
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/MichaelPatton/Christianity-Atheism.jpg

[moostraks]

Why is it a view when its a fact that the bible's stories are pulled from other stories, I was just giving an example with the Noah story.

Tell me, do you believe that the christian god is omnipetent? If so then why did it take him seven days to create the earth and everything else? Why couldnt he do it in a second if he is all powerful? To be limited on what you can do in a day assumes that one is limited in his/hers powers hence not omnipetent. This being may be some higher form of life but by the statements just made in the first section of the bible, this proves that this being is not god. Also if this being is a god, then why is he affected by linear time, a concept that is not a constant and is affected by one's relative speed? The bible is full of so many fallacies, to believe it is real is just ludicrous.

BTW I find this poster so accurate.
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/MichaelPatton/Christianity-Atheism.jpg

Mine is not to reason why as the why really is irrelevant to me at this current juncture...Yes I do believe he is omnipotent. I believe that the world is an artistic creation, not a soulless evolutionary remnant of space trash. Maybe He just enjoyed the process and savored the moment? Your belief is considered a view unless you were there, just as well as mine is a view. You chose whom you wish to believe as will I. Why should I cater to the views of your history books because you have judged them valid?? Why are atheists/non-theists so derogatory?? Why do you have a self entitled sense of superiority when you are only using a set of perceptions with as much basis in grounded fact as theists do. At least theists usually have some form of historical writing to fall back on as a starting point.

You have started with a presupposition and gone from there. Why do most civilizations have a flood story if the event did not occur?? How did these flood stories become so widespread? Well the logical conclusion imho is it did happen and is not an ancient fallacy. So you say well I believe that this is where the story started, and I say well I disagree with you. I trust my source of the story and you trust yours. Live and let live.

Nice way to knock the Catholics and Orthodox (and a few others)on the board. Beautiful poster, clearly shows what your perceptions are being based upon. If this is your view as to what the Bible teaches then you have only been exposed to a limited amount of the religion before formulating a decision as to how all of us Christians believe. FWIW I do not personnally hold to transubstantiation but you could not be any more vulgar if you tried...Some of the Bible is allegory and much of it is parable or instructive. Might surprise you to know that Christians can actually think for themselves and each has a slightly different view of sacred texts and history. Have yet to have someone give me an answer on why John had the revelation that fits so well to the rfid chip. Just blind dumb luck, ehh???:D

[Gimme Some Truth]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.


What I'd like to know is... why does the "Anti-Christ" even bother taking over when it is set in stone that "Jesus" will jump down and kick his butt? :rolleyes:

(seriously, I'd like to know)


edit: Also I'd like to have this clarified if possible....

Is Jesus God? or is Jesus God's son?

Is the Anti-Christ the Devil ? or are they different?

.
.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

I certainly do not believe that I would have such poor manners as to tell someone to be quiet on a thread unless they can address me in regards to their religion based on my frame of reference. With your analogy of Mormonism how exactly could you explain the philosophy without using what in the Book of Mormon convinces you it is divine revelation??:confused:



I wasn't telling anyone to be quiet. I was simply pointing out that using bible quotes is meaningless and a waste of time when communicating with non-Christians.

As for Mormonism, it's as much of a scam as the rest of the manmade religions.


When someone can give me an absolute legitimate argument on how an old man on a deserted island 2000 years ago could conceive of something that comes as close as we are to the rfid implant along with its reaction through cancerous growth and rejection due to synthetic material usage, I will see their point. I probably won't agree but I will concede they have a reason to their logic. I doubt an odds maker would put odds on coincidence here. How could he have seen something this close?

So someone was psychic and saw the future. Do you worship Nostradamus too?

[Gimme Some Truth]

So someone was psychic and saw the future.

Or, when they said "mark" they meant in the "cattle burn marks" sense and in reality knew nothing about RFID chips etc. I assume they marked cattle back then. Also everyone on the planet being enslaved by the Anti-Christ hardly constitutes a one world government (is the term "one world government" included in the bible/s?)

.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

What I'd like to know is... why does the "Anti-Christ" even bother taking over when it is set in stone that "Jesus" will jump down and kick his butt? :rolleyes:

(seriously, I'd like to know)


edit: Also I'd like to have this clarified if possible....

Is Jesus God? or is Jesus God's son?

Is the Anti-Christ the Devil ? or are they different?

.
.

World domination is a very, very old ambition. If you can convince people to let evil triumph and they'll come out of it okay because someone else will step in and save them, evil will triumph. It's about lulling people into a false sense of security by capitalizing on their belief in God and harnessing them. It doesn't matter if it's irrational, as long as it's believed.

[Indy Vidual]

People who believe this are helping make it come true.
Thanks, a bunch... :eek:

[Dave Pedersen]

What I'd like to know is... why does the "Anti-Christ" even bother taking over when it is set in stone that "Jesus" will jump down and kick his butt? :rolleyes:

(seriously, I'd like to know)

.

check out

www.shepherdschapel.com

for quite an education you won't get anywhere else about biblical prophecy. anti-christ is a role Satan himself plays. He will pretend to be Christ and by deception will win over many hearts. By deceiving people into worshiping him people trade away their salvation for a false husband. It is viewed as harlotry or marital unfaithfulness to do this. This is the danger posed by the flood of lies which will be spewed out of the dragon's mouth. False religion the likes of which the world is not prepared for. But then there will be the two witnesses to lead the way back to truth which is the reality of Christ.

Why does Satan bother trying to deceive people and thus destroy their relationship with their Maker? He is so proud he thinks he can win and by tearing people away from God in a sense he does destroy their souls. Consumed by hate this is what drives him to do all he can to wreck God's kingdom. But there is a time when Satan will be destroyed, once he no longer serves any useful purpose.

Our Father is in complete control, even of Satan and his fallen angels. God is using them to demonstrate once for all time who is in authority. Once those who follow Satan are identified and given every opportunity to turn back to God, if they refuse to love and honor God they will be destroyed. This is the second death, the death of the soul. Then those who have learned to be true and trustworthy will inherit life eternal and we will no longer suffer the torment of fools.

[wildflower]

BTW for the record Mormons are Christian,

Mormonism is not Christianity. They have some beliefs that completely go against the foundational tenets of Christianity. That is not to say that there may be some individual mormons who are christians, but that's another story.

I stopped reading your post after that, since you are so clearly wrong on something so basic.

[Gimme Some Truth]

check out

www.shepherdschapel.com

for quite an education you won't get anywhere else about biblical prophecy. anti-christ is a role Satan himself plays. He will pretend to be Christ and by deception will win over many hearts. By deceiving people into worshiping him people trade away their salvation for a false husband. It is viewed as harlotry or marital unfaithfulness to do this. This is the danger posed by the flood of lies which will be spewed out of the dragon's mouth. False religion the likes of which the world is not prepared for. But then there will be the two witnesses to lead the way back to truth which is the reality of Christ.

Why does Satan bother trying to deceive people and thus destroy their relationship with their Maker? He is so proud he thinks he can win and by tearing people away from God in a sense he does destroy their souls. Consumed by hate this is what drives him to do all he can to wreck God's kingdom. But there is a time when Satan will be destroyed, once he no longer serves any useful purpose.

Our Father is in complete control, even of Satan and his fallen angels. God is using them to demonstrate once for all time who is in authority. Once those who follow Satan are identified and given every opportunity to turn back to God, if they refuse to love and honor God they will be destroyed. This is the second death, the death of the soul. Then those who have learned to be true and trustworthy will inherit life eternal and we will no longer suffer the torment of fools.

So, the Devil/Anti-Christ does not recognize the Bible then I take it?

I'll be honest with you. The whole "if you dont believe in me , I will destroy you or send you to hell for all eternity" kind of makes me not like God :( . He/it doesnt sound like someone who is worthy of worship or even a mere "thank you" tbh. He/it sounds like an insecure, nasty 'person' :confused:

I mean, the IRS seems like a bunch of fluffy little puppies that I want to hug and take care of, compared to God :p

Can you atleast see where I am coming from?
.

[Dave Pedersen]

So, the Devil/Anti-Christ does not recognize the Bible then I take it?

I'll be honest with you. The whole "if you dont believe in me , I will destroy you or send you to hell for all eternity" kind of makes me not like God :( . He/it doesnt sound like someone who is worthy of worship or even a mere "thank you" tbh. He/it sounds like an insecure, nasty 'person' :confused:

I mean, the IRS seems like a bunch of fluffy little puppies that I want to hug and take care of, compared to God :p

Can you atleast see where I am coming from?
.

Yes I can understand but look at it this way. You are a parent with 12 kids and you love them all. One of them goes bad. Real bad and tells your other kids you are a real monster. Not only that the real bad one shows your other kids how to do all sorts of temporarily satisfying and very dangerous things. You try to reason with your bad apple but he refuses to listen to you and hates your guts, as a matter of fact he is even convincing your other children to hate you just as bad as he does and all your kids are getting molested by this turkey and are going to die young and penniless if you don't do something.

I hope you can get a general grasp of what the situation is, no analogy is a perfect translation of reality.

Our Father in heaven loves all his children but some have rebelled and threaten the very lives of those who are not old enough to understand the consequences of turning their back on the Author of life who fully sustains us all every moment we exist.

Our Father deserves to be honored and loved and hate is a disease which threatens all with perpetual chaotic influence if nothing is done. There must be an end to it. All have the freedom to decide for themselves if they love life as it is in the eternity or if they instead love destruction, destroying and hurting at every opportunity. There is no middle ground ultimately. So then we all must choose either love or hate.

[Gimme Some Truth]

Yes I can understand but look at it this way. You are a parent with 12 kids and you love them all. One of them goes bad. Real bad and tells your other kids you are a real monster. Not only that the real bad one shows your other kids how to do all sorts of temporarily satisfying and very dangerous things. You try to reason with your bad apple but he refuses to listen to you and hates your guts, as a matter of fact he is even convincing your other children to hate you just as bad as he does and all your kids are getting molested by this turkey and are going to die young and penniless if you don't do something.

I hope you can get a general grasp of what the situation is, no analogy is a perfect translation of reality.

Our Father in heaven loves all his children but some have rebelled and threaten the very lives of those who are not old enough to understand the consequences of turning their back on the Author of life who fully sustains us all every moment we exist.

Our Father deserves to be honored and loved and hate is a disease which threatens all with perpetual chaotic influence if nothing is done. There must be an end to it. All have the freedom to decide for themselves if they love life as it is in the eternity or if they instead love destruction, destroying and hurting at every opportunity. There is no middle ground ultimately. So then we all must choose either love or hate.

I can understand your analogy , however...

I dont go around trying to turn others against God. I dont go around trying to get other people to do dangerous things. I dont molest other people. I dont murder other people. I'm quite respectful of everyones religions and beliefs***. I don't hate God. I believe there is some kind of God or creator but I am not part of any religion. I dont worship or pray to a God. I actually believe that its probable that Jesus existed - Im quite open minded . I just dont think I believe in the Bible.

So this means I am going to be destroyed or be sent to hell forever right? I think that is a little harsh LOL .

I once had a conversation with a vicar and he said that someone who all his life murdered people , molested and tortured children etc but suddenly belived in God on his deathbed would get into heaven yet someone who lived their lives helping others ,living as a saint really, didn't particularly believe the bible would go straight to hell for eternity :eek: . When he said that i couldn't believe it. He basically told me that Heaven could very well have millions of child molester's and murders floating around (or whatever you do in heaven :D )and hell could have millions of really nice people in there being tortured etc :( . Kind of made me sad and not like God too much .


*** I wouldnt normally be part of this discussion, out of respect for other people's beliefs , but I am sincerely interested in this aspect of God and religion. Im not trying to undermine your religion.

.

[moostraks]

Mormonism is not Christianity. They have some beliefs that completely go against the foundational tenets of Christianity. That is not to say that there may be some individual mormons who are christians, but that's another story.

I stopped reading your post after that, since you are so clearly wrong on something so basic.

Mormons are Christian...Their beliefs fall under the umbrella category of Christianity as opposed to Judaism, Wicca, Atheism, et all....Now they hold to tenants and beliefs I could not palate, and hold to a text I was not interested in following. This is where my interest stopped. There is no need for you to be so hateful and to try to belittle those of the Mormon faith, quite apparently this thread seems to have brought out the best in everyone.:rolleyes:

I am sure the pamphelet against Mormons will be the next thing to get posted here....:eek:

[moostraks]

People who believe this are helping make it come true.
Thanks, a bunch... :eek:

I made this comment to my children the other day. It is the chicken and the egg. Does it come true because it was going to or because some are forcing the issues?? If I went to a fortune teller and they "saw" something then I might affect my future by not doing certain things until the conditions were accurate for the vion I was told about thus a self-fulfilling prophesy...What ever the case we do seem headed towards a bad road ahead....

[moostraks]

I wasn't telling anyone to be quiet. I was simply pointing out that using bible quotes is meaningless and a waste of time when communicating with non-Christians.

As for Mormonism, it's as much of a scam as the rest of the manmade religions.



So someone was psychic and saw the future. Do you worship Nostradamus too?

Lol!!! No I don't worship Nostrodamus...I can't discuss why someone believes Christianity without using some text to back it up. If some one does not like it they can ignore it, it really is not directed to them. Live and let live, you know??? Seems in real poor taste to be disrespecting peoples religion if your goal is to get the good doctor elected. Save it for the anti-whatever forums and spread the love there..:D:D:D

[Redcard]

Why don't they believe in the NWO?

Dude, they DO. The whacko christian religion has become a death cult, where people WANT the end times, they WANT Jesus to come, they believe a rapture (even though there is NO biblical proof at all for a rapture) because of Left Behind, and they WANT the NWO.

They see fighting it as an inevitable failure, and they want their Jesus to make them fly up to heaven NOW.

So let's belay this bickering about mormonism or not. The fact is, they want a christian president who will guide them into the coming of Jesus, the Cataclysm , and the 1000 years of peace.

[moostraks]

Or, when they said "mark" they meant in the "cattle burn marks" sense and in reality knew nothing about RFID chips etc. I assume they marked cattle back then. Also everyone on the planet being enslaved by the Anti-Christ hardly constitutes a one world government (is the term "one world government" included in the bible/s?)

.

Well at least someone who makes a legitimate stab at it...Could be an interesting possibilty but his visions were progressive and you need to have the lesions which very accurately describes the cancer growth from the verichip. Unless you take the entirety you could explain the individual prophesy but the progressiveness also has to be accounted for. Some believe/d that it was the holocaust numbering...

Point is, we are on the same view point of getting a particular person elected. No one is helping the matter by being rude and deragatory towards other VOTERS. I merely pointed out why the Bible is believed by CHRISTIANS and have been harassed by every arrogant atheist with an ax to grind. I said to each his own. I was on the outside of Christianity once and would never have been so rude and dismissive as some here are about anyones beliefs. A persons beliefs are their value system, and now this thread has denigrated to where we are going to decide who falls under which umbrella category of philosophy. Good grief....:(

[moostraks]

Why don't they believe in the NWO?

Dude, they DO. The whacko christian religion has become a death cult, where people WANT the end times, they WANT Jesus to come, they believe a rapture (even though there is NO biblical proof at all for a rapture) because of Left Behind, and they WANT the NWO.

They see fighting it as an inevitable failure, and they want their Jesus to make them fly up to heaven NOW.

So let's belay this bickering about mormonism or not. The fact is, they want a christian president who will guide them into the coming of Jesus, the Cataclysm , and the 1000 years of peace.

Nice...way to alienate Christians...We all do not have the same views...You are trying to reach the wrong churchs.AHHH!!!! The peace churchs are the ones you want. Quaker, Mennonite, Brethren,progressive Amish,etc...Or leave them alone, sit on this board and bash Christians and see how many want to join when they Google Ron Paul and read this forum....:D

[Redcard]

Nice...way to alienate Christians...We all do not have the same views...You are trying to reach the wrong churchs.AHHH!!!! The peace churchs are the ones you want. Quaker, Mennonite, Brethren,progressive Amish,etc...Or leave them alone, sit on this board and bash Christians and see how many want to join when they Google Ron Paul and read this forum....:D

Oh, there are plenty of peace churches, but do you think those are the ones that showed up in 2004 to elect Bush and vote against the *****? Do you think those are the ones that support war against the "towel-heads?" Do you think those people are the ones that VOTE? More importantly, do you think those are the ones that vote for McCain?

Look, the "peaceful" churches, (of which I'm actually a member), tend to vote democractic, because a welfare state is more in line with Jesus' teachings than the "Rich shall inherit the earth and bomb the rest" that the republican party has become. They likely don't want anything to do with anything Republican for a while, Ron Paul included.

[moostraks]

Oh, there are plenty of peace churches, but do you think those are the ones that showed up in 2004 to elect Bush and vote against the *****? Do you think those are the ones that support war against the "towel-heads?" Do you think those people are the ones that VOTE? More importantly, do you think those are the ones that vote for McCain?

Look, the "peaceful" churches, (of which I'm actually a member), tend to vote democractic, because a welfare state is more in line with Jesus' teachings than the "Rich shall inherit the earth and bomb the rest" that the republican party has become. They likely don't want anything to do with anything Republican for a while, Ron Paul included.

Funny...the ones I am involved with won't have anything to do with politics, much less taking money from the government. The don't even want social security back because it includes unearned government money....This is why I posted this previously as a long shot but the churches they are seeming to want to gear towards are even worse....The McChurch crowd wants war, Your church is Democrat, and my associations won't vote...And the problem is???? Seems like what I said before you have to find the right churchs, and the reward will be small. Starting in the peace churchs would be better than the war mongering ones.

So what worked for you or are you a partyline voter?? The point is to get the views out there that his ideas are unique. Seems like your frustration factor is up with the church you associate with...:(

[Redcard]

So what worked for you or are you a partyline voter?? The point is to get the views out there that his ideas are unique. Seems like your frustration factor is up with the church you associate with...:(

No, actually, I love my church. Like I said, they vote democrat and are perfectly educated on why they vote that. It's not precisely a christian church, though. As for your church not voting.. yeah.. I can understand that mentality.

The point I'm trying to make is that the average church that believes in the NWO and end times and all that are caught in a scenario where they WANT it to happen. At least the ones that vote.

I don't believe in the NWO, or the end times, or anything of that nature, so I don't have a dog in the hunt.. but the original poster says that the Bible talks about the NWO.. and acts like this should translate into acceptance of our ideas.. but the reality is that if we stave off the NWO , then we have proven their biblical end times FALSE.

They want the end times. They want the "Rapture"

[Kade]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.


Batshit.

[tommy7154]

I try not to get upset at these religious posts and I try to keep my mouth shut but please try and understand how hard it can be for an atheist.

For example, say I made a post about a purple sky fairy that predicted a bunch of stuff and it talked to me. You would all think I was batshit crazy, correct? Or am I wrong? Why would I be considered a lunatic for praying and talking to this fairy and preaching it's word when other religions are so acceptable? Simply because there are more of you that believe in the Christian God YOU are right and I am insane?

Somebody explain this to me please....logically, if possible.

I really don't mean to be an ass, it just baffles me.

[Kade]

Why is it a view when its a fact that the bible's stories are pulled from other stories, I was just giving an example with the Noah story.

Tell me, do you believe that the christian god is omnipetent? If so then why did it take him seven days to create the earth and everything else? Why couldnt he do it in a second if he is all powerful? To be limited on what you can do in a day assumes that one is limited in his/hers powers hence not omnipetent. This being may be some higher form of life but by the statements just made in the first section of the bible, this proves that this being is not god. Also if this being is a god, then why is he affected by linear time, a concept that is not a constant and is affected by one's relative speed? The bible is full of so many fallacies, to believe it is real is just ludicrous.

BTW I find this poster so accurate.
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/images/Parchment%20and%20Pen/MichaelPatton/Christianity-Atheism.jpg



Charles Gathers,

You are an American Hero. Seriously. Have you gotten in touch with Dustin Chalker or Jeremy Hall? They could probably use your help. http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,149846,00.html?wh=wh

[Redcard]

Like I said earlier, Kade.

Christianity is a death cult.

Its leader died.

It offers no benefit for the living, but promises everything to the dead.

Its followers want the end of the world because they then get the reign of Jesus.

[tommy7154]

Like I said earlier, Kade.

Christianity is a death cult.

Its leader died.

It offers no benefit for the living, but promises everything to the dead.

Its followers want the end of the world because they then get the reign of Jesus.

That's just as much nonsense as religion itself...

There are benefits to the living. If there was NO benefit it wouldn't be. I don't pretend to know what the benefits are but one just for example would be hope or faith. When you think and feel those positive things there are real physical benefits to it.

I just don't understand why people don't educate themselves and seem so unconcerned with facts and truth. There are other ways of being positive and having those feelings than just believing in some god because that's what you were taught to do.

Religion seems to thrive on ignorance and brainwashing. What if nobody ever told you Santa Clause wasn't real? Knowing there's no such thing, you find it ridiculous. You probably didn't when you were young ignorant and brainwashed though...

Churches, The bible, everyone reinforcing your beliefs... It's just like the MSM imo

[Redcard]

There are benefits to the living. If there was NO benefit it wouldn't be. I don't pretend to know what the benefits are but one just for example would be hope or faith. When you think and feel those positive things there are real physical benefits to it.

I just don't understand why people don't educate themselves and seem so unconcerned with facts and truth. There are other ways of being positive and having those feelings than just believing in some god because that's what you were taught to do.

Religion seems to thrive on ignorance and brainwashing. What if nobody ever told you Santa Clause wasn't real? Knowing there's no such thing, you find it ridiculous. You probably didn't when you were young ignorant and brainwashed though...

You're missing my point. I'm agreeing with you. I love life. I live to the fullest. The problem is, many christian churches out there teach that Christ's salvation is the MOST IMPORTANT THING BAR NONE. Forget Mission work (Unless you can get souls, too, which happens a lot now.. convert to Jesus and you get to eat.. convert to Jesus and your family gets a place to sleep.. convert to Jesus, and we'll give you security so your daughter doesn't get raped on the way to school.) Now, it's all about the Rapture, the end times, and the lake of fire.

So when I say that it is a death cult, understand that if I take two equal people, and set one on a path of doing good deeds, feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, healing the sick, protecting the innocent, and strengthening the weak.. and I set the other into a path of jealous American consumerism.. then you'd think the first person was the more holy person.

BUT.. if I said the first person was an atheist, and the second person said the Sinner's Prayer at the McMegaChurch.. then the people in the McMegaChurch, the ones who are voting for Huckabee and the Republican party, would tell you that all the things that the first person did are for naught. Only the second person gets the Kingdom of Jesus, and his own personal Mansion.

That's right. I've been to these churches. Some of the sunday school things they did involve telling children to "Design their Mansion In Heaven"

[tommy7154]

Yah I understand...any christians going to answer my first question?

[moostraks]

I try not to get upset at these religious posts and I try to keep my mouth shut but please try and understand how hard it can be for an atheist.

For example, say I made a post about a purple sky fairy that predicted a bunch of stuff and it talked to me. You would all think I was batshit crazy, correct? Or am I wrong? Why would I be considered a lunatic for praying and talking to this fairy and preaching it's word when other religions are so acceptable? Simply because there are more of you that believe in the Christian God YOU are right and I am insane?

Somebody explain this to me please....logically, if possible.

I really don't mean to be an ass, it just baffles me.

The same way I do not go out and say all thoseatheists. I know some people worship trees and nature...If it floats their boat...I relate to them on some teaching philosophy so we talk on that level. Now if they were to say something deragatory about myreligion I would defend myrightand mylogicfor mybeliefs.

My issue has been with the reasoning by some that they have to have everything coached in their frame of reference and this in a thread on end times Bible views. Not just that but quite apparently now some individuals believe we should be analyzing which sects fall under which umbrella terms.

I think we should target the purple sky fairy worshippers too, if they have something in common with our candidates views and would consider voting. If I posted something on purple sky fairy worshippers and they posted back I would expect others to utilize what they could and not call their veracity into question. This helps Dr.Paul how???Nor would I go to great lengths trying to qualify what a purple sky fairy worshipper is or is not depending on the particular churchs view of the fairy.:D:D:D

[Kade]

Like I said earlier, Kade.

Christianity is a death cult.

Its leader died.

It offers no benefit for the living, but promises everything to the dead.

Its followers want the end of the world because they then get the reign of Jesus.

It goes beyond that... I could go for hours on this subject.

Let's not forget that the cult itself removes itself from any actions that society and the moral zeitgeist have disapproved of, even though their holy book promotes the activities.

Burning witches, Selling daughters into slavery, raping and pillaging defeated tribes, slavery....etc

There is no greater a slavery than to live your life guided by the belief that you are deserving of some imaginary gift for servitude to an imaginary slavemaster. It is with the promise of things one cannot see or touch, bartering on the greatest fiat known to man, for the corruption of the concept of purpose. Hardwork and effort are poured into it, a blackhole, devoid of real tangible substance, and these people receive a promise of goods that they will never receive.

It is the greatest scam ever conceived by man.

[moostraks]

It goes beyond that... I could go for hours on this subject.

Let's not forget that the cult itself removes itself from any actions that society and the moral zeitgeist have disapproved of, even though their holy book promotes the activities.

Burning witches, Selling daughters into slavery, raping and pillaging defeated tribes, slavery....etc

There is no greater a slavery than to live your life guided by the belief that you are deserving of some imaginary gift for servitude to an imaginary slavemaster. It is with the promise of things one cannot see or touch, bartering on the greatest fiat known to man, for the corruption of the concept of purpose. Hardwork and effort are poured into it, a blackhole, devoid of real tangible substance, and these people receive a promise of goods that they will never receive.

It is the greatest scam ever conceived by man.

Wow...sad that this is how you view it...Misuse has been done by most of the great religions. Guess it is easier when you are an atheist because you only have your own history to account for...As a Christian you are automatically lumped with every hateful act that has been committed in the name of your religion....

[moostraks]

Yah I understand...any christians going to answer my first question?

I think I did....

[Redcard]

Wow...sad that this is how you view it...Misuse has been done by most of the great religions. Guess it is easier when you are an atheist because you only have your own history to account for...As a Christian you are automatically lumped with every hateful act that has been committed in the name of your religion....

Yeah.

It sucks having to defend yourself against what the people you associate do, doesn't it? But, hell, you're still taking shit from your own God for Eve eating the stupid apple.

And yes, when you're an atheist, you DO have ONLY your own history to account for. Isn't that more freedom? I mean, instead of getting blamed for a one-ribbed woman who ate an apple that a talking snake convinced her to eat thousands of years ago, you actually only get blamed for what you did?

[moostraks]

You're missing my point. I'm agreeing with you. I love life. I live to the fullest. The problem is, many christian churches out there teach that Christ's salvation is the MOST IMPORTANT THING BAR NONE. Forget Mission work (Unless you can get souls, too, which happens a lot now.. convert to Jesus and you get to eat.. convert to Jesus and your family gets a place to sleep.. convert to Jesus, and we'll give you security so your daughter doesn't get raped on the way to school.) Now, it's all about the Rapture, the end times, and the lake of fire.

So when I say that it is a death cult, understand that if I take two equal people, and set one on a path of doing good deeds, feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, healing the sick, protecting the innocent, and strengthening the weak.. and I set the other into a path of jealous American consumerism.. then you'd think the first person was the more holy person.

BUT.. if I said the first person was an atheist, and the second person said the Sinner's Prayer at the McMegaChurch.. then the people in the McMegaChurch, the ones who are voting for Huckabee and the Republican party, would tell you that all the things that the first person did are for naught. Only the second person gets the Kingdom of Jesus, and his own personal Mansion.

That's right. I've been to these churches. Some of the sunday school things they did involve telling children to "Design their Mansion In Heaven"


We agree more than disagree I believe, but I am Christian. I do not think it is for me to judge anothers salvation.(Quite frankly why would this issue even matter to an Atheist? I thought they just had this existence.) Christianity is only a death cult if you preceive it that way. Really it is a glass full, glass empty argument you have. If what you worship is end time prophecy then you really missed the boat (not you personnally , those who do). They really are just signs on the road map that we are missing the mark and need to reevaluate the course we are on,imho. I think we should exemplify good character and avoid compromising situations, the rest is extraineous and puts your motivation on the wrong track.

I think we are held accountable for our actions if we do nothing to change the current state of affairs, this is my opinion. If an atheist reads this then they should say ,"Great, now I know an avenue how to approach this issue, but who or where are these beliefs prevalent?" Not spending countless hours trying to prove why they are superior to others who have this belief...This is not exactly the character of an atheist who is doing the magnanimous actions you are portraying, but rather one who has a low self esteem and must restore themselves at the cost of others...Unfortunately, Atheistis like Christians, usually the loudest mouths are the worst examples...

[moostraks]

Yeah.

It sucks having to defend yourself against what the people you associate do, doesn't it? But, hell, you're still taking shit from your own God for Eve eating the stupid apple.

And yes, when you're an atheist, you DO have ONLY your own history to account for. Isn't that more freedom? I mean, instead of getting blamed for a one-ribbed woman who ate an apple that a talking snake convinced her to eat thousands of years ago, you actually only get blamed for what you did?

Once again...short sighted vision...You really are a pleasant person to converse with....You have all the freedom in the world, so do I. I can make any choices I want to...Like you I will reap the rewards and consequences, we just come at life through two different angles. I have a source of strength that I can draw on other than my own reserves when things don't go well. My existence really is not the pathetic one you seem to believe I dwell in.:)

[Kade]

Wow...sad that this is how you view it...Misuse has been done by most of the great religions. Guess it is easier when you are an atheist because you only have your own history to account for...As a Christian you are automatically lumped with every hateful act that has been committed in the name of your religion....

No offense my friend. I don't want to lump you into a group. If you believe in "live and let live" then I have no problem with you or what you believe...

I have no problem or issue with Christians who are tolerant, loving, kind, and just. I don't know many though. I do believe the world is big enough for all of us... I'm pointing my anger towards those that would pursue their inherent insanity to the ends of earth, and smother anyone who comes in the way...

[moostraks]

No offense my friend. I don't want to lump you into a group. If you believe in "live and let live" then I have no problem with you or what you believe...

I have no problem or issue with Christians who are tolerant, loving, kind, and just. I don't know many though. I do believe the world is big enough for all of us... I'm pointing my anger towards those that would pursue their inherent insanity to the ends of earth, and smother anyone who comes in the way...

Thank you!!! I have the Coexist sticker on the back of my van. It would probably anger a lot of "thumpers". I was once Wiccan, so I probably have more tolerance towards other views than most born, raised and always Christians. I do not say this to pat myself on the back, just to acknowledge that I personnally reasoned my way to where I am at and can understand that everyone follows their own path in life....

FWIW I am angry with the doomsday cult too....

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Lol!!! No I don't worship Nostrodamus...I can't discuss why someone believes Christianity without using some text to back it up. If some one does not like it they can ignore it, it really is not directed to them. Live and let live, you know??? Seems in real poor taste to be disrespecting peoples religion if your goal is to get the good doctor elected. Save it for the anti-whatever forums and spread the love there..:D:D:D

If the average Christians and Muslims were to wake up and realize they are being played against each other like a bunch of suckers in the bogus war on terror, the goal of getting the good doctor elected would be immensely easier to achieve. People are dying and our freedoms are being destroyed because the followers of these manmade religions have been led to believe their actions are justified by God.

Religions are tools of social and political control, nothing else. No one knows the true nature of God. Anyone who claims to be speaking or writing His words is yanking your chain for their own benefit. Critical thinkers who have any inkling of knowledge about the immense and deep corruption that has existed in our governments for centuries and millenia should realize that a religious system of beliefs created by men is just another corrupt tool of control. How could anyone possibly think that world religions are not part of the NWO plan? Do you really think that the plan for world domination that has been in the works for centuries would not include spiritual enslavement alongside economic and political enslavement?

Do you believe that the mainstream media is part of the what's happening regarding the NWO, or do you think the mainstream media is completely objective and neutral politically? If you think TV is part of the problem, and under the control of the NWO, do you really think that out of the kindness of their hearts they would call a timeout for several hours every Sunday morning for the last seven or so decades and broadcast the truth into our living rooms? Why do you think movies like the Ten Commandments and guys like Billy Graham get primetime slots on TV?

I'm not trying to disrespect anyone. I know what you believe and understand how powerful it is. I've totally been there. However, the only way the rEVOLution is successful is if we take it all the way. Religions are corrupt at the core. God is awesome. Relgions just capitalize on people's instinctual belief in Him. Religions convince people to believe in the religion and equate that with believing in God. And if you don't accept that particular religion as the true path, you are a non-believer and destined to be shut out of the good life after you die. It's an extremely powerful tool. The more centuries that pass, the more entrenched it becomes and people are conditioned from cradle to grave.

[moostraks]

If the average Christians and Muslims were to wake up and realize they are being played against each other like a bunch of suckers in the bogus war on terror, the goal of getting the good doctor elected would be immensely easier to achieve. People are dying and our freedoms are being destroyed because the followers of these manmade religions have been led to believe their actions are justified by God.

Religions are tools of social and political control, nothing else. No one knows the true nature of God. Anyone who claims to be speaking or writing His words is yanking your chain for their own benefit. Critical thinkers who have any inkling of knowledge about the immense and deep corruption that has existed in our governments for centuries and millenia should realize that a religious system of beliefs created by men is just another corrupt tool of control. How could anyone possibly think that world religions are not part of the NWO plan? Do you really think that the plan for world domination that has been in the works for centuries would not include spiritual enslavement alongside economic and political enslavement?

Do you believe that the mainstream media is part of the what's happening regarding the NWO, or do you think the mainstream media is completely objective and neutral politically? If you think TV is part of the problem, and under the control of the NWO, do you really think that out of the kindness of their hearts they would call a timeout for several hours every Sunday morning for the last seven or so decades and broadcast the truth into our living rooms? Why do you think movies like the Ten Commandments and guys like Billy Graham get primetime slots on TV?

I'm not trying to disrespect anyone. I know what you believe and understand how powerful it is. I've totally been there. However, the only way the rEVOLution is successful is if we take it all the way. Religions are corrupt at the core. God is awesome. Relgions just capitalize on people's instinctual belief in Him. Religions convince people to believe in the religion and equate that with believing in God. And if you don't accept that particular religion as the true path, you are a non-believer and destined to be shut out of the good life after you die. It's an extremely powerful tool. The more centuries that pass, the more entrenched it becomes and people are conditioned from cradle to grave.

So after my posts do I really come across as the televangelist follower?? FWIW You need to understand my relationship with Christianity is not what seems to be coming across. I am deeply spiritual,but do not attend church. I believe in the Bible for instruction, but I also believe revelation is still available to those who chose to avail themselves to it. The government says I claim to be Christian because I do not go to church.(Yes this is actually true, so believers like me tread lightly...) I do not believe religion lies within the church but the individual and their relation to divine guidance and their fellow man.

That said I believe that Christ was the divine come to earth as man. I also believe that the Bible provides signposts to the people of earth to realize how far we have fallen from the right path of the golden rule. Like Noah's flood this belief is a core belief in most religions. I do not worship the cross, I try to emulate the being who gave a tremendous sacrifice to show people that even when you are persecuted, nailed to a cross for an offence you did not commit, you still do not retaliate. I think some concepts about the cross don't sit well with me, but I have a charred fanny from atheists I don't need Christians to be flaming me...:D

I am perpelexed why when I state that a true Christian is what Dr.Paul is, seems to bring out the most vindictiveness in Atheist/non-theists. You all do know he is a Christian right? Why in the world you would want to vote for someone who is so ignorant in your view as to misunderstand what you see as core life concepts perplexes me. Unless you understand, in your being, that what he is fighting for rings true to your humanity. This is the divine knowledge you personnally posess. Dr.Paul could call himself the purple people eater cult member but his past reflects one that real Christians attempt to emulate...freedom for all...harm none.

I do not trust the media, and nor do I agree with most organized religion. However, everyone has their place in life and has lived a different past than my own. It is not for me to judge. There is way too much cooperation taking place now openly between religion and government. Now homeland security will use the pulpit to disperse information to keep the sheep calm. That is creepy in more ways than one. The churchs have sold out...I still think there a few good ones left but they are few and far between.

I think that the viciousness of the religious community to be G*d's favorite child has led to a geat deal of grief. You need to target your frustration towards opening the eyes of people who do not value peace over profit. This mess we are in is because of profiteers, and they are willing to use any method available. The Atheist and Non-Theist community is not immune.

[Redcard]

You'll have to forgive us, Moostraks.

Your religion is nothing like what Christ taught , now. So when you say you're a Christian, you do yourself more harm than not. Saying you're a true Christian like Dr. Paul is somewhat meaningless to people who are atheist and agnostic. We've heard people call themselves true christians and do nasty things.

Now, that aside, the original question is , why do Christians not(sic) accept our ideas?

The answer is, because Christians who vote, Christians who get Bush elected, Christians who drive the anti-abortion argument and the anti-gay argument and the anti-agenda argument .. those Christians who now represent your religion.. they WANT the NWO. Because the NWO means they are about to suffer the Tribulation.. which means they're about to get their Mansions in Heaven with a wide screen TV in every room.

They don't CARE what they have to go through on this earth, because their rewards are in the next.

So please understand that when you say you're a "True Christian", that's meaningless. Your religion has been co-opted so badly that the name "Christian" is now nearly a curse word.

Show us who you are by your actions, and your works. Tell us what you believe. (And yes, you just did.. thanks!)

Now, as it stands, Dr Paul is against the seperation of church and state.. if his voting record is to be believed. I understand that you don't want government and religion mixing, but I think it's fair that Dr Paul doesn't share that opinion, and he wants it left up to the states.

In the end though, the religion you identify with is a death cult.

[Kade]

You'll have to forgive us, Moostraks.

Your religion is nothing like what Christ taught , now. So when you say you're a Christian, you do yourself more harm than not. Saying you're a true Christian like Dr. Paul is somewhat meaningless to people who are atheist and agnostic. We've heard people call themselves true christians and do nasty things.

Now, that aside, the original question is , why do Christians not(sic) accept our ideas?

The answer is, because Christians who vote, Christians who get Bush elected, Christians who drive the anti-abortion argument and the anti-gay argument and the anti-agenda argument .. those Christians who now represent your religion.. they WANT the NWO. Because the NWO means they are about to suffer the Tribulation.. which means they're about to get their Mansions in Heaven with a wide screen TV in every room.

They don't CARE what they have to go through on this earth, because their rewards are in the next.

So please understand that when you say you're a "True Christian", that's meaningless. Your religion has been co-opted so badly that the name "Christian" is now nearly a curse word.

Show us who you are by your actions, and your works. Tell us what you believe. (And yes, you just did.. thanks!)

Now, as it stands, Dr Paul is against the seperation of church and state.. if his voting record is to be believed. I understand that you don't want government and religion mixing, but I think it's fair that Dr Paul doesn't share that opinion, and he wants it left up to the states.

In the end though, the religion you identify with is a death cult.

+10

Flawless. The "True Scotsman" fallacy is still alive and well. Whoever easiest explains to others in the most barbed memetic way, wields a powerful sword.

People's beliefs are vastly complicated. If I poke into any evangelicals beliefs, before the third sentence, they are exposed as absurd.

Example:

"True" Christian: Jesus is the only way to salvation.

Rationalist: What do you mean by salvation?


TC: Saving someone from the torments of hell, gaining life through fellowship with Christ and an eternity in Heaven.

Rationalist: That's interesting. Where exactly do these places exist?

TC: *points* up and down. (Very common response)

Rationalist: That's interesting. You do know that the representative space above in "up" and below us in "down" change as the Earth rotates... Does Heaven exist in the thin layer between the troposphere and sub-orbit?

TC: You're going to hell.

The common Christianity, and the Christians know damn well who they are... they are a death cult. They are the 52% who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old. They are the large majority who believe in a Hell as an eternal torment. If God is somehow personified in this whitebearded virgin molesting essence, with a hippie -like son who rose from the dead...the ones who either attack the Pope or worship the Pope, depending on their version of the insanity, Protestant or Catholic.

Again they know who they are, because they are the ones most offended with a challenge to their "faith".

Let us all rejoice in how tolerant we must be to those that are willing to reject empirical evidence, reason, and rational discourse, in place of faith, the very process of unthinking.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

So after my posts do I really come across as the televangelist follower??

Nah, but those are the people I'm talking about. You obviously have a clue. I don't care what people believe spiritually, if they're true Patriots. You seem to be.


This mess we are in is because of profiteers, and they are willing to use any method available. The Atheist and Non-Theist community is not immune.

This mess we are in is not because of the profiteers, it's because the average Christian sheeple are gullible and believe & trust the profiteers who are in control of their governments and religious institutions. The profiteers include those who lead Christians to believe that they can sit by and do nothing because Jesus is going to save them. The Christians who sit by idly waiting for the rapture are as much of an obstacle to the rEVOLution as atheists who support socialism.

[Dave Pedersen]

I can understand your analogy , however...

I dont go around trying to turn others against God. I dont go around trying to get other people to do dangerous things. I dont molest other people. I dont murder other people. I'm quite respectful of everyones religions and beliefs***. I don't hate God. I believe there is some kind of God or creator but I am not part of any religion. I dont worship or pray to a God. I actually believe that its probable that Jesus existed - Im quite open minded . I just dont think I believe in the Bible.

So this means I am going to be destroyed or be sent to hell forever right? I think that is a little harsh LOL .

I once had a conversation with a vicar and he said that someone who all his life murdered people , molested and tortured children etc but suddenly belived in God on his deathbed would get into heaven yet someone who lived their lives helping others ,living as a saint really, didn't particularly believe the bible would go straight to hell for eternity :eek: . When he said that i couldn't believe it. He basically told me that Heaven could very well have millions of child molester's and murders floating around (or whatever you do in heaven :D )and hell could have millions of really nice people in there being tortured etc :( . Kind of made me sad and not like God too much .


*** I wouldnt normally be part of this discussion, out of respect for other people's beliefs , but I am sincerely interested in this aspect of God and religion. Im not trying to undermine your religion.

.

There is so very much false teaching about Christianity it is pathetic. I recommend you study with the Shepherd's Chapel for at least six months and then a lot of the normal and reasonable objections to Christianity will be washed away by sound teaching. Everyone goes to heaven. No one is destroyed until the end of the millennium. So then there is much work to do to understand the sentiments and intentions of our Father.

www.shepherdschapel.com

Wash away the lies and know the truth and the truth will set you free.

[Kade]

There is so very much false teaching about Christianity it is pathetic. I recommend you study with the Shepherd's Chapel for at least six months and then a lot of the normal and reasonable objections to Christianity will be washed away by sound teaching. Everyone goes to heaven. No one is destroyed until the end of the millennium. So then there is much work to do to understand the sentiments and intentions of our Father.

www.shepherdschapel.com

Wash away the lies and know the truth and the truth will set you free.

If it were not for the concept of hell, I never would have questioned my faith in the first place. I would probably still be a believer, having never looked at the facts.

[Dave Pedersen]

If it were not for the concept of hell, I never would have questioned my faith in the first place. I would probably still be a believer, having never looked at the facts.

Hell is badly misunderstood by most Christians and they spread terrible lies about our Father due to their misapprehension of hell and judgment.


The lake of fire is the place of final and total and permanent destruction of the soul. It is the place where those who deliberately and willfully reject God go AT THE END OF THE MILLENNIUM.

The important point which is so often missed is the fact that during the millennium we are not in flesh bodies. We are not subject to the limited temporary flawed situation of the flesh. We will be in perfect incorruptible bodies for one thousand years under the just rule of Christ. So then those who still after such an opportunity refuse love and life and honor and decency and the principles of freedom and justice will DIE the second death. No constant conscious torment or torture, simply annihilation.

This is the death of the soul and many will be destroyed at that time because they love to destroy. Father did not make this wonderful universe and His wonderful children to live among rabid evil destroyers. No.. He will ultimately have to destroy some of His own children so that you and I can live in peace throughout all time.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

+10

Flawless. The "True Scotsman" fallacy is still alive and well. Whoever easiest explains to others in the most barbed memetic way, wields a powerful sword.

People's beliefs are vastly complicated. If I poke into any evangelicals beliefs, before the third sentence, they are exposed as absurd.

Example:

"True" Christian: Jesus is the only way to salvation.

Rationalist: What do you mean by salvation?


TC: Saving someone from the torments of hell, gaining life through fellowship with Christ and an eternity in Heaven.

Rationalist: That's interesting. Where exactly do these places exist?

TC: *points* up and down. (Very common response)

Rationalist: That's interesting. You do know that the representative space above in "up" and below us in "down" change as the Earth rotates... Does Heaven exist in the thin layer between the troposphere and sub-orbit?

TC: You're going to hell.

The common Christianity, and the Christians know damn well who they are... they are a death cult. They are the 52% who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old. They are the large majority who believe in a Hell as an eternal torment. If God is somehow personified in this whitebearded virgin molesting essence, with a hippie -like son who rose from the dead...the ones who either attack the Pope or worship the Pope, depending on their version of the insanity, Protestant or Catholic.

Again they know who they are, because they are the ones most offended with a challenge to their "faith".

Let us all rejoice in how tolerant we must be to those that are willing to reject empirical evidence, reason, and rational discourse, in place of faith, the very process of unthinking.

My biggest problem is the idea of an immensely powerful and all knowing God that needs his ego stroked continuosly, and you will suffer for eternity and be punished if you don't stroke it. It's absurd. That's not what God is all about.

Q: How do you get people to follow you, live their lives in a manner you decree, tithe 10% of their incomes to you, spread the belief to as many others on the planet as possible, and ensure your (and your descendants) grip on them lasts in perpetuity by making them believe they will suffer beyond imagination after they die if they don't do as you say?

A: Write a manual for them to follow that outlines those things and say it's God's words.

[moostraks]

You'll have to forgive us, Moostraks

So please understand that when you say you're a "True Christian", that's meaningless. Your religion has been co-opted so badly that the name "Christian" is now nearly a curse word.

Show us who you are by your actions, and your works. Tell us what you believe. (And yes, you just did.. thanks!)

Now, as it stands, Dr Paul is against the seperation of church and state.. if his voting record is to be believed. I understand that you don't want government and religion mixing, but I think it's fair that Dr Paul doesn't share that opinion, and he wants it left up to the states.

In the end though, the religion you identify with is a death cult.

I think states rights is the best we can hope for currently. Is it perfect, no way, but when you remove the federal governments incentive programs for many state run agencies the corruption will diminish, but then unfortunately redirect to state lobbyists...My husband was not much happier with this thought either. So my consolation to him is that at least at the local level you are a whole lot closer to raise Cain with the officials as opposed to traveling to Washington and you have a more intimate relationship if you care to with officials since there are fewer. You are dealing with a smaller consensus, too.

I know it has been co-opted (the religion). I am not quite sure how we could reclaim what has been stolen, though. I believe that Dr.Paul is the real deal. He isn't perfect, but no one is. He sure is the best thing I have seen in moral character in a long time. To think he has been dealing with Washington and still can be human amazes me.

Why would anyone would be concerned with my deeds??HAha that's funny...Okay seriously, I am a homeschooling mom. I have 7 children. The oldest is in public school, long story. I detest government intervention. I have first hand experience with government corruption at the receiving end. It was directly regarding my religion too. So if I am defensive about my beliefs,well I have been under duress on this matter previously. I know what corruption comes from federal benefits provided to state institutions. It is ugly. So along with the genuine fear I have that the doomsday cult would like to put my children on the slaughtering line for their Holy War, I also want the government (especially the federal government) to back off. They foul up more things then they get right and are treading in areas they have no business controling.

The big kicker...this is such a lose lose for us if Dr.Paul doesn't get in. We are headed towards a draft, so they can take my children for their war that I don't agree with (100 years:eek:). My tax dollars are already funding this without my agreeance. We earn a decent amount of money so the benefits we see in the wings being promised by these politicians are going to slaughter us.Ughhh...So I donate to his campaign as much as I can and I have been doing some letter writing...And I pray, A LOT!!! My bright red van (15 passenger) is a mobile Dr. Paul billboard as well as my dh's suv. I hope for the best but anticipate the worst, kwim???

[RonRules]

The bible talks about the NWO.
During The Tribulation, Antichrist is going to rise to power, and there will be a one-world government, of which he will be the dictator. And in the middle of that Tribulation period, he is going to require everyone on the Earth, according to Revelation 13 to receive a mark on their right hand or forehead which will mean they acknowledge him, not only as their dictator, but as their god. Without that mark they will not be allowed to buy or sell anything for the remainder of the Tribulation period. And then, at the every end of that time, his world empire which he has built will began to crumble, and he is going to fight, literally, against Jesus Christ. He is going to call Christ down out of heaven. Jesus will come back at The Battle of Armageddon, and with His Word, is going to totally obliterate all of the forces of Antichrist and the Devil. We read about that in Revelation 19. Today we are studying Revelation 17. Chapters 17 and 18 go together to portray the destruction of the world empire of Antichrist. This is not the next thing on God's time table, but it is something we need to understand: that before this chapter can take place, a one-world government must emerge. We find here a beast, symbolizing one-world government, and we also find a woman riding on the beast who symbolizes religion that is not pleasing to God.

Why are we considered nuts when we mention that we are moving towards this. Should Paul point this out? Whether you believe in the bible or not someone understand human nature.


All complete nonsense. What else are you a sucker for?