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View Full Version : How about we sponsor a full pager




Johnnybags
07-20-2007, 04:28 PM
in the DesMoines Register? 2000 members here? Anyone have any idea how much a Sunday one costs? Estimate?

Delaware
07-20-2007, 04:31 PM
If someone gets the price, and establishes, a fund, I will help!

MozoVote
07-20-2007, 04:40 PM
Would be interesting to learn. I saw some chatter in the Iowa meetup news about pricing for cinema commercials. People are brainstorming ways to communicate to the public.

DeadheadForPaul
07-20-2007, 04:43 PM
great idea!

If we do this, may I recommend a few things:

1.) We must define Dr. Paul as strong on defense. Emphasize that he wants to bring Osama bin Laden to justice. We can't let Paul be defined as a pacifist or a 9/11 Truther. Strong on defense should be #1 b/c that's our biggest problem

2.) Immigration is a winning issue

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 04:44 PM
I think this is a great idea. I'll certainly pitch in what I can towards this. We would also likely need to solicit the Meetup Groups for money for this. If we can collect enough, possibly we can advertise in more than just one city.

brumans
07-20-2007, 04:47 PM
We should also make sure they know that it is a group of concerned american citizens -- not the campaign -- that is publishing this. Let them know its a grassroots effort, that means so much more and really brings out a sense of passion and will peak their interest a lot more.

Bradley in DC
07-20-2007, 04:48 PM
This was my favorite from the Burma Shave sign discussion:

It's leadership
this country lacks,
Defend our borders,
not Iraq's.
Vote Ron Paul!

Lord Xar
07-20-2007, 05:03 PM
WELL, Does anybody know what IOWA is doing for RADIO spots..???

I will head that up.. but I don't want to take funds away from other avenues people are doing..

Can someone inform us what IOWA wants to do or plans to do... you can PM on the side if you don't want to mention live.

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 05:07 PM
We're getting into more money now. Do we need a PAC?

Scribbler de Stebbing
07-20-2007, 05:12 PM
This was my favorite from the Burma Shave sign discussion:

It's leadership
this country lacks,
Defend our borders,
not Iraq's.
Vote Ron Paul!

That's good. Some sign people should get a few hundred sets of those up on busy roads.

Do people read newspapers in Iowa? I gave up the newspaper several years ago, as I've been able to get it on the 'net. Do they listen to radio more than read the paper? Even when I have read the paper, my eyes rarely settled on the ads.

If you guys decide on something that sounds effective -- I prefer radio -- I'd put some money toward it.

Johnnybags
07-20-2007, 05:18 PM
about pacs and such or even how much it is(not even an estimate). Heck maybe we should get a PAC for this forum anyway, it cannot hurt, "Friends of Dr Paul and Liberty" then all these ideas can be stickied and 20.00 to 50.00 a pop can be raised from anyone who decides to join it for any ideas deemed worthy. Obviously the campaign cannot handle it all and many of the ideas and energy are coming from forums and groups such as these.

empirenine
07-20-2007, 05:38 PM
I'd be happy to contribute to this also.

Are there any DIS-advantages of forming a PAC?

risiusj
07-20-2007, 05:40 PM
I'll look into the DM Register and try to find out how much it'd be for a full page ad.

Johnnybags
07-20-2007, 05:44 PM
PAC - looks like a good idea to form one early just in case we run into a large expenditure many would like to join? Heck there 2000 members here alone.




How do I start a nonconnected PAC?

Nonconnected PACs must register by filing FEC Form 1 [PDF], Statement of Organization within 10 days after raising or spending in excess of $1,000 in connection with federal elections. Such PACs should download the Campaign Guide for Nonconnected Committees [PDF] for more information on the laws that apply to them.

BLS
07-20-2007, 05:44 PM
Isn't there some guy here named "Joe from Chicago" a lawyer who claimed to know about PAC's, etc.?

I think a funded PAC could be a HUGE asset.

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 05:57 PM
Isn't there some guy here named "Joe from Chicago" a lawyer who claimed to know about PAC's, etc.?

I think a funded PAC could be a HUGE asset.

I think his name was "Chicago Lawyer". It might be a good idea to send him a PM so he will see it whenever he gets on the forum.

FSP-Rebel
07-20-2007, 05:59 PM
We need links to donation pages here, not another pledge. Half the people who view our pages are guests, so relying on posts to decide how much support we have for a certain idea is not where it's at.

Johnnybags
07-20-2007, 06:11 PM
went over 1,000 from here in donations I think it would be illegal. Some things you will want to do will cost more than that. My only point is that I know this campaign is going to grow by leaps and bounds and have far more power than it has now and thus more options. By extension this forum will as well so if there was a true PAC that could coordinate the larger expenses and disbursements legally it would benefit us to be ready. After I just read the rules it seems that 1k is the threshold and if you have 100 members willing to pay 20.00 bucks for an idea, I think you need a PAC. If we have a lawyer or experienced individual on board, all the better.

empirenine
07-20-2007, 06:23 PM
If we do form a PAC, I'll offer to design/host/maintain a website where we could have specific pages setup for each project, and ways to donate to each individually.

We need a lawyer and we need a name.

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 06:30 PM
I just sent ChicagoLawyer a PM and told him we had a question for him on this thread. Hopefully he'll be online later tonight.

nullvalu
07-20-2007, 06:34 PM
This was my favorite from the Burma Shave sign discussion:

It's leadership
this country lacks,
Defend our borders,
not Iraq's.
Vote Ron Paul!

that's incredible.. perfectly sums up a few issues in poetry.. i may paint that on my car..

ChicagoLawyer
07-20-2007, 06:49 PM
Hey guys, thanks for the message about forming a PAC. I'm not giving legal advice in what I'm about to say, but I'll point you guys in the right direction. Yes, if you are a "nonconnected committee" (a group of folks who want to influence an election) and you raise $1,000 or more then you might want to form a PAC. A PAC can, mostly, spend unlimited amounts of money on ads, but is limited to contributions of $5,000 from each person. This does not count against the $2,300 limit to Ron Paul's campaign. The advantage of a PAC compared to other nonprofit election organizations (those "527s" you heard so much about in 2004) is that PACs can advocate the election or defeat of an identifiable candidate. So, if you're pooling money and you want to place ads that say anything like "Vote Ron Paul" then you either need to be the candidate's committee or a nonconnected PAC (or a few other things like party committees). "Nonconnected" is very important, and you really must keep away from RP HQ entirely. Can't talk to them about what you're doing, can't ask advice, etc. This includes staff members, so anyone getting a paycheck from the campaign is out.

Now, one guy (not a PAC) could just run ads advocating "Vote Ron Paul," that would be ok. However, then spending on those ads would be subject to the $2,300 contribution limit (I think, I'm not sure), in addition to what he's already given to Ron Paul's campaign. Also, I suppose you could pool money and spend it without giving to a PAC, but then the contribution limits would still apply and the IRS would tax the "income" the spending party (the group placing the ads) would receive from the others. Not reporting this could run into IRS penalties and even criminal prosecution. Talk about a tax on speech!

This hasn't been an issue so far in the campaign, and I've held off in raising red flags, because running off copies at Kinkos to hand out at fairs is such small amounts of money that the FEC isn't going to know or care, and things like blogging and posting on message boards (unless it's an actual internet ad) aren't covered expenditures under McCain-Feingold. However, now that people are talking about pooling large sums of money (thousands of dollars) for actual ads in newspapers, radio, and TV, serious legal concerns become involved.

For real legal advice I'd encourage everyone to read whatever the campaign is going to put up in the next few days on the subject. Read some of the FEC's brochures on the subject (they're surprisingly readable for government work) and see what's ok and what would get folks in trouble.

What? You said something about the First Amendment? Sorry, go tell that to Justice O'Connor.

Johnnybags
07-20-2007, 07:18 PM
in preparation for larger expenditures and knowing Rons campaign cannot possibly keep up with all the good ideas posted here. Think about over the weekend and i'll try and dig up some info and ideas to set one up, just in case(100 percent chance IMHO)that when a large expenditure is needed and great idea comes along with 100's of donors it would be legal. I would conservatively estimate 50 people here would put up 50.00 bucks to get one going in a day and a half.

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 07:24 PM
Now, one guy (not a PAC) could just run ads advocating "Vote Ron Paul," that would be ok. However, then spending on those ads would be subject to the $2,300 contribution limit (I think, I'm not sure), in addition to what he's already given to Ron Paul's campaign.

We need to find out whether this is true or not. It certainly was not my understanding. I thought this was the reason we didn't want to involve HQ, because if we did, THEN it would be included and they would have to report it to the FEC in their quarterly reports.

liberatenyc
07-20-2007, 07:24 PM
I also think this is a great idea. I will certainly commit some $$ to get this off the ground. If anyone wants to take the reins on this one and needs additional help then contact me, liberatenyc @ gmail . com.

ChicagoLawyer
07-20-2007, 07:31 PM
We need to find out whether this is true or not. It certainly was not my understanding. I thought this was the reason we didn't want to involve HQ, because if we did, THEN it would be included and they would have to report it to the FEC in their quarterly reports.

I'm pretty sure it is true. Otherwise people like George Soros would buy millions of dollars worth of ads against GWB, or whoever (not that that's a bad thing). What they buy are ads that said things like "Call George Bush and tell him to bring the troops home" or "to stop being such a jerk" or the like. A guy could buy unlimited ads that say "Support Republicans who actually believe in the Constitution" but couldn't buy unlimited ones that say "Vote Ron Paul." A PAC could, however, but is limited in the amount individuals can contribute.

Delaware
07-20-2007, 08:27 PM
Someone please take the reins.

If we form a pack, we could have a treasurer, and whenever we want to do something new just pool some more money in the PAC Account and do TV Ads, Radio Ads, Newspaper Ads, Adverstising, etc. Its a brilliant idea and we need to do it.

Citizens for Ron Paul ( Dr.Paul)
Americans for Ron Paul ( Dr.Paul)
Friends of Liberty for Ron Paul

etc
etc

Someone please get going on this issue

empirenine
07-20-2007, 08:33 PM
www.ronpaulPAC.org?

I'm cocked and ready to buy a domain and build a site for this cause, but I'm not sure I'm fit for the reins.

CAKochenash
07-20-2007, 08:43 PM
If we pooled our money together to donate to one person for an ad or whatever, how is that considered income. Cant we say it is a gift to them for being such good people, haha....Can we exchange the FRN's into a metal and give THAT as a gift?

ChicagoLawyer
07-20-2007, 08:47 PM
I like the enthusiasm here. Just one thing to keep in mind is a PAC's name cannot contain a candidate's name. So "Ron Paul PAC" isn't ok, but "Americans for a Constitutional Government" is.

empirenine
07-20-2007, 08:54 PM
I like the enthusiasm here. Just one thing to keep in mind is a PAC's name cannot contain a candidate's name. So "Ron Paul PAC" isn't ok, but "Americans for a Constitutional Government" is.

Good point.

MozoVote
07-20-2007, 08:56 PM
You may want to keep the PAC name short, if you are asked to include it in radio disclaimers. 30 seconds goes quickly. :)

And Find a PO box with three digits and a short city and state name. "PO Box 123, Ames Iowa, 98765" for example.

Wyurm
07-20-2007, 09:03 PM
You may want to keep the PAC name short, if you are asked to include it in radio disclaimers. 30 seconds goes quickly. :)

How about "Original Intent"?

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 09:13 PM
I still like, Americans for Constitutional Government. The disclaimers at the end can be said very fast. They just have to be said.

Electrostatic
07-20-2007, 09:21 PM
How about "Paid for by Restore the Repulic, 2008"... That way you could get that line in without having to use it in the bulk of the 30 seconds...

MozoVote
07-20-2007, 09:30 PM
I'm only semi-serious about the PAC name. If people are ready to do the ugly paperwork and get the thing set up, they can call it whatever.

But one thing I want to see us doing, is improving our game... not just repeating things.

Part of what that pledge drives I led were about, was to examine what we accomplished in Des Moines 6/30 and then think about the criticisms led against us. That there were no locals... the event appeared to the press, like it was roving Phish concert of die hards. We thought they'd be impressed by our commitment to drive hundres of miles, but the story was buried. So I wanted to do something that would alert locals that Paul was coming.

I think pledges work best for a targeted purpose. Many people don't like to give to an amorphous blob of an organization, whether it is a PAC or the official campaign. But when you can make the case that every dollar goes to a specific purpose with zero fat, it becomes more compelling.

I mean heck, I raised over $600 for black and white post cards, ferCryinOutLoud. :rolleyes:

Delaware
07-20-2007, 09:48 PM
Americans for Constitutional Government
Restore the Republic

these are both good! Someone who is capable please take the reins!

jorlowitz
07-21-2007, 01:22 AM
I'm curious about a few things...

One, Who would have legal control over the PAC?
Mainly, who would decide when, where, and how to allocate it's funds?

Two, Are there drawbacks of not being able to communicate with the campaign?
How fine is that line? Who can get in trouble for crossing it?

Three, How might a PAC fit into the overall composition of campaign expenditures?
When would it be best for MeetUps to donate to the PAC (or request funds from them) versus just doing a project themselves? On the one hand, a PAC would be best used for projects that are bigger than a smaller group could organize; but on the other hand, even for small tasks like printing flyers, a PAC could exert huge 'downward pressure' on prices if they were buying in bulk. Lastly, how could the PAC avoid taking away from the campaign's fund-raising numbers? Would it make sense for the PAC to inform donors that they should give their -first- $2300 to the campaign?

Four, How can we keep tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in one group's hands well?
What could we do about oversight, or more importantly keeping the broader community of supporters involved?

Five, on names... what about something even more general like:

The Freedom Coalition PAC

(I also think a date in the title is a good way to associate the name with the campaign).

Bryan
07-21-2007, 10:22 AM
I like the idea of a PAC. To answer some questions...


I'm curious about a few things...

One, Who would have legal control over the PAC?
Mainly, who would decide when, where, and how to allocate it's funds?

We would want someone who has a proven track record of supporting Dr. Paul and has a reputation to uphold worth more than whatever money they would get.

I think the issue of "how to allocate funds?" it best solved by only collecting money on a project-by-project basis. For example, if we wanted to run an ad then everyone could contribute as they felt it worthy based on the attributes of the effort. If you think it's a bad idea then keep your money out. Simple and effective in a day where paypal is just a few clicks away.

We should see if there is another PAC in place that matches our goals that we could be some kind of affiliate site of (ie: not reinvent the wheel).

Didn't the Austin group form a PAC or 527?

Slugg
07-21-2007, 11:00 AM
Didn't the Austin group form a PAC or 527?

It wouldn't surprise me if they did...those people have been BUSY!!!!

Dustancostine
07-21-2007, 11:12 AM
I like the idea of a PAC. And am ready to donate when it is formed.

How about naming it after our in house article writer Spirit of '76.

It implies the constitution and revolution.

LibertyEagle
07-22-2007, 02:53 AM
bump

Lord Xar
07-22-2007, 03:02 AM
I put a call into one newspaper with a total circulation of about 40,000 (if we hit all 4 of their papers - combined).

Its the AMES Tribune. -- they will be calling me back on Monday. If I do not hear from them, I will call back near the end of the day...

So, right now - I have a call to Ames Tribute and emailed a bunch of radio stations.

Does anybody else have anything in the works??

denvervoipguru
07-23-2007, 03:32 AM
Like this idea...let's give meetup members a chance to do something of HIGH VALUE/LOWCOST ratio.

There are over 15,000 MeetUp members...
Newspaper ads could be a regular thing!

Somone needs to contact a media buyer and look into buying "Stand-by" placement...you get big discounts off of the full price this way.

sunny
07-23-2007, 05:29 AM
how about working with www.studentsforpaul.com on this one - jeff frazee specifiically - they have done the money raising thing before and did a great job?

Scribbler de Stebbing
07-23-2007, 06:35 AM
I think the Iowa people already did form a PAC to handle the purchases of tickets from private individuals for the Iowa Straw Poll. Bryan, do you know?

Badger Paul
07-23-2007, 08:49 AM
Adopt-an-Iowa and gave my $35 to do so.

Bryan
07-23-2007, 04:41 PM
I think the Iowa people already did form a PAC to handle the purchases of tickets from private individuals for the Iowa Straw Poll. Bryan, do you know?
I presume this is best directed to Bryan in Iowa. :) I'm not even sure about nearby Austin... :)

DeadheadForPaul
07-23-2007, 04:55 PM
how about working with www.studentsforpaul.com on this one - jeff frazee specifiically - they have done the money raising thing before and did a great job?

The correct link is: http://students4paul.com/

You're right, these guys are GREAT! Thermometer-style fundraising is key! They have raised tens of thousands of dollars

LibertyEagle
07-24-2007, 10:23 PM
bump for update.

If we're going to do this, shouldn't we be collecting money right now? Is anyone working on the ad?

Starks
07-24-2007, 10:46 PM
If we're gonna do a full page ad, it has to be for the Sunday edition.