Ron Paul signs not allowed in KC according to official

[wizardwatson]

TYPO IN THREAD TITLE, SHOULD BE KC NOT KS, REFERRING TO OVERLAND PARK

From Valek (KC Ron Paul Meetup organizer:

************************************************** *

I received this e-mail from a city official, and I just got of the phone with him and he said that publicly displayed Ron Paul signs need to be taken down. He said you should call him if you have any questions. From: Craig.Coffey@opkansas.org

Sir, I got your name of the Paul Official Site. I hope you assist me. There has been a recent proliferation of Paul political ground signs within the City limits of Overland Park. These signs are regulated by our City Sign Code. At this time, the signs are not permitted to be displayed. We would appreciate your help in removing them right away. Your cooperation is appreciated. I can be contacted at OP City Hall at 895-6207.

This link will tell you the City's policy on political signs. Please scroll down to the section addressing political signs.

http://www.opkansas.org/_Assets/law/opmc/opmc_by_chapter/18-440.pdf

******************************

Now the real test begins.

[Oddball]

Well, you can always claim that you don't know who put the signs up, and that official group policy is to obey the laws.

Not that I'd actually recommend that you do such a thing. :rolleyes:

[specsaregood]

Your thread title is misleading. That is Overland Park, KS. Does not pertain to KC. Just a slight correction.

[Oddball]

BTW, isn't Overland Park in Kansas, and aren't sign codes local?

[micahnelson]

civil disobedience

[Oddball]

civil disobedience
And plausable deniability.

[Johnnybags]

or display them attended on public property, holding a sign is not illegal. Plastering them on public property generally is.

[BLS]

Just move em to private property.

[Oddball]

Sign codes apply to private property too.

Yeah, it sucks, but that's the way it is.

[SwordOfShannarah]

I thought the constitution allowed you to post bills on public property (politically oriented bills). So whats the problem? Where do they get the authority to say no to that?

If they so no signs... there is always spray paint. There is no way they are going to take away our media and now SIGNS. Give me a break.

[specsaregood]

You think that it is coincidence that Overland Park, KS is in the TOP 25 of "conservative voting" cities in the country?
http://votingresearch.org/USAstudy.doc

They need to hear the message loud and clear. Ron Paul is the most conservative candidate.

[MsDoodahs]

This is part of their fight.

Are you allowed to fly flags of your choice on private property? If so, make Ron Paul for President FLAGS and fly those.

[micahnelson]

I would say no to spray paint. We are not vandals.

[MsDoodahs]

unless you are spray painting on your own property, then it's fine.

If you want to turn the entire side of your house into a big Ron Paul for President piece of artwork, go for it. :D

[sleeper]

TYPO IN THREAD TITLE, SHOULD BE KC NOT KS, REFERRING TO OVERLAND PARK

From Valek (KC Ron Paul Meetup organizer:

************************************************** *

I received this e-mail from a city official, and I just got of the phone with him and he said that publicly displayed Ron Paul signs need to be taken down. He said you should call him if you have any questions. From: Craig.Coffey@opkansas.org

Sir, I got your name of the Paul Official Site. I hope you assist me. There has been a recent proliferation of Paul political ground signs within the City limits of Overland Park. These signs are regulated by our City Sign Code. At this time, the signs are not permitted to be displayed. We would appreciate your help in removing them right away. Your cooperation is appreciated. I can be contacted at OP City Hall at 895-6207.

This link will tell you the City's policy on political signs. Please scroll down to the section addressing political signs.

http://www.opkansas.org/_Assets/law/opmc/opmc_by_chapter/18-440.pdf

******************************

Now the real test begins.

Ask why are you telling me this? How did he know it was you? He got lucky random?

[BLS]

Can you paint your house any way you want (IE even a political sign)

[MsDoodahs]

Time for some ... Go Rilla tactics in that town.

:D

[Bro.Butch]

If I were you guys I would start now and pick up all the signs over the weekend. If not, city officials will destroy them. If you get them back you can move some outside the city limits and use the others for "sign wavings" inside the city limits when volunteers have the time to do the job. I think you are near Interstate Hwys, take a ladder and place them up above reach about every mile along the Interstate, they will be seen by a million people by Christmas. So don't loose your signs, move them out into the county on high traffic roads! And start holding "sign wavings" each week (or daily if you have enough volunteers) on different busy streets inside the city limits. Two people at different locations can reach a lot of people in 30-45 minutes. You'll be surprise at the support from the motorist you will receive in hornblowing, waves, thumbs-up, etc. It can be FUN.

If you don't take them up over the weekend THEY WILL BE GONE (and lost for future promotion).

If you have a lawyer in your meetup that is willing to do a little freebie work, one of your members can place a sign on their private property and after they are cited by the city, all of you can work together and fight it in court. I would think on free speech grounds. Just make sure the one who will test the law, has no skeletons in the closet, and keeps a "neat" property !

[DeadheadForPaul]

If I were you guys I would start now and pick up all the signs over the weekend. If not, city officials will destroy them. If you get them back you can move some outside the city limits and use the others for "sign wavings" inside the city limits when volunteers have the time to do the job.

I agree 100%

Contact him and tell him that the meetup group will remove the signs and that you did not do it to begin in, but you're being a team player. Then move the signs out of that town's city limits. Might as well save those esigns. Shit, bring those signs to Iowa if you get a chance to go!

[Lord Xar]

FIRST --- a few things

1. DO NOT POST YOUR SIGNS associated with a meet-up. I am part of a Meetup, but I post signs on my own.. or if I do it with someone else, we are doing it on OUR OWN.. if we part of the meetup, that is fine in my book... we are just a few dudes OUTSIDE of the meetup or whatever environment posting signs.

2. SCREW THOSE OFFICIALS!! THEY CAN'T even enforce immigration laws... so now they are gonna come down you!!!!!!!!!!

This is the hypocrisy... AND subtle ways to smash Ron Pauls word!!!!!!

hahahhaa.. They want enforce their "sign" laws, yet they can't enforce their immigration laws... go figure.

DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY THESE PEOPLE. YOU CAN STILL POST YOUR SIGNS/BANNERS OUT SIDE OF YOUR GROUPS. (just don't get caught)




TYPO IN THREAD TITLE, SHOULD BE KC NOT KS, REFERRING TO OVERLAND PARK

From Valek (KC Ron Paul Meetup organizer:

************************************************** *

I received this e-mail from a city official, and I just got of the phone with him and he said that publicly displayed Ron Paul signs need to be taken down. He said you should call him if you have any questions. From: Craig.Coffey@opkansas.org

Sir, I got your name of the Paul Official Site. I hope you assist me. There has been a recent proliferation of Paul political ground signs within the City limits of Overland Park. These signs are regulated by our City Sign Code. At this time, the signs are not permitted to be displayed. We would appreciate your help in removing them right away. Your cooperation is appreciated. I can be contacted at OP City Hall at 895-6207.

This link will tell you the City's policy on political signs. Please scroll down to the section addressing political signs.

http://www.opkansas.org/_Assets/law/opmc/opmc_by_chapter/18-440.pdf

******************************

Now the real test begins.

[angelatc]

You can put them in your yard, you just can't put them on public property. That's probably pretty much standard in any city.

[Bruehound]

I hope the words of Dr. Paul himself will guide you on this matter.


Resistance to illegal and unconstitutional usurpations of our rights is required. Each of us must choose which course of action we must take; Education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes.

But let it not be said we did nothing! Let not those who love the power of the welfare/warfare state label dissenters of authoritarianism as unpatriotic or uncaring. Patriotism is more closely linked to dissent than it is to conformity in a blind desire for safety and security. Understanding the magnificent rewards of a free society makes us unbashful in its promotion, fully realizing that maximum wealth is created and the greatest chance for peace comes from a society respectful of individual liberty.

Congressman Ron Paul, TX
May 5, 2007

[Roxi]

my boyfriends sister said they are also all over leawood, KS which is also in KC

so take them out of overland park...its not that big, im going to assume this code applies to all of johnson county so just move them to state line, most of the signs in leawood are a block from state line rd so if u just move them to different areas other than johnson county you should be fine

does anyone from the KC meetup group have some of the 4x8 signs left? my bf's sister wants a couple to put in her and her friends' yards

[SwordOfShannarah]

If I were you guys I would start now and pick up all the signs over the weekend. If not, city officials will destroy them. If you get them back you can move some outside the city limits and use the others for "sign wavings" inside the city limits when volunteers have the time to do the job. I think you are near Interstate Hwys, take a ladder and place them up above reach about every mile along the Interstate, they will be seen by a million people by Christmas. So don't loose your signs, move them out into the county on high traffic roads! And start holding "sign wavings" each week (or daily if you have enough volunteers) on different busy streets inside the city limits. Two people at different locations can reach a lot of people in 30-45 minutes. You'll be surprise at the support from the motorist you will receive in hornblowing, waves, thumbs-up, etc. It can be FUN.

If you don't take them up over the weekend THEY WILL BE GONE (and lost for future promotion).

If you have a lawyer in your meetup that is willing to do a little freebie work, one of your members can place a sign on their private property and after they are cited by the city, all of you can work together and fight it in court. I would think on free speech grounds. Just make sure the one who will test the law, has no skeletons in the closet, and keeps a "neat" property !

I have to disagree with the idea that we should save the signs for later. All signs are taken down eventually. So this "threat" of having signs taken down is a given in the first place.

There really is no penalty they can enforce and there is nothing they can do about it. They are just following the principle of acting authoritarian. You'd be amazed how often we all "do what they say" simply because they say it. Sorry- that power needs to be taken back.

This is YOUR COUNTRY. Keep putting up signs. What are they going to do? Run a news story about it? More exposure for ROn Paul I guess...

[purepaloma]

It would be the exact same rules for any other candidate...we just happen to be the only ones puting up so many signs !

[jacksit]

Banning signs on private property is a violation of the 1st amendment. Banning signs on public property is more complicated, but i suspect the city code violates the "unbridled discretion" doctrine. Do you have a copy of the code?

[njandrewg]

easy solution...ring the bell of houses near the signs, and talk to them about Ron Paul...then ask them if you can put your banner on their lawn

[Bradley in DC]

The campaign is not supporting illegal behavior (they have enough other problems).

You may want to start a dialog on the ins and outs of the rules: when, where, what, etc. (might justify a delay taking them down, you'll know when to put them back up, and some might be permitted in other/some places).

[Bradley in DC]

Banning signs on private property is a violation of the 1st amendment.

Um, not necessarily. The GOVERNMENT banning might be, but many people now live in private communities with all sorts of crazy rules: my semi-retired father is in a fight over the height of the ornamental grass in a median circle!

[Syren123]

Um, not necessarily. The GOVERNMENT banning might be, but many people now live in private communities with all sorts of crazy rules: my semi-retired father is in a fight over the height of the ornamental grass in a median circle!


LOL! We should all be bothered with such dire issues if we weren't in the fight of and for our sovereign nation's life.

[angelatc]

Banning signs on private property is a violation of the 1st amendment. Banning signs on public property is more complicated, but i suspect the city code violates the "unbridled discretion" doctrine. Do you have a copy of the code?

It was a link in the original post.

[jacksit]

yeah, i just noticed that. 18.440.130 G says:

"When the Director of Planning and Development Services shall determine that any
political sign is in violation of the provisions of this section, he/she shall cause personal, telephonic or written notice of such violation to be given to the responsible party by the most expedient means feasible."

I think this establishes unbridled discretion in a government official to silence speech.

If I were a lawyer in KS, I'd take this case.

This is what I would do in response. I'd send an email back stating "We believe Section 18.440 and Subsection 18.440.130, in particular, place an unconstitutional burden on our 1st amendment rights of free speech guaranteed by the United States Constitution as incorporated under the 14th amendment. If a city or other state official should take down the signs, we may file a lawsuit requesting injunctive relief and damages under 42 United States Code 1983. Should we be forced to retain counsel, we will seek attorneys fees as is our right under the 42. U.S.C. 1988."

You should be able to figure out if they are serious or just trying to push you around.

[Thom1776]

I just read the sign ordinance, and it's OK to have signs on private property. They just have to be no larger that three feet square and are limited to three on each piece of private property.

Are your signs larger than three square feet? Measure them carefully.

Don't let them bully you. Stand up to these fascists.

[Joe Knows]

The campaign is not supporting illegal behavior (they have enough other problems).

You may want to start a dialog on the ins and outs of the rules: when, where, what, etc. (might justify a delay taking them down, you'll know when to put them back up, and some might be permitted in other/some places).

Most cities have ordinances on business signs. Political signs are another animal. They are harder to regulate because of the free speech ramifications. Most cites allow you to put up the signs on private property for only 30 or 60 days before an election. I think that when this is challenged on free speech grounds, most cities will usually not enforce the ordinance. I agree with Bradley that you should start a dialogue with city government because you have a legitimate issue. You might just want to deal directly with the city commission. Most city commission meetings are televised. You would get to speak for 3 minutes. Tell the commissioners about the situation and ask them to allow political free speech in your community. You have just framed an issue that will make most city commissioners uncomfortable. How can they come out against free speech? Especially on TV. I can see You Tube now. Anyway, if you feel like it, take a stand.:cool:

[mikelovesgod]

I've put up signs as big as political signs for years as part of my business. Towns call me all the time. All you have to do is deny involvement. They have to prove it was you.

Secondly, don't take them down. It costs more in gas than in replacement value. They won't get all of them anyway. Act as an individual, decry any actions that presume it is the campaigns fault, and keep putting them out.

Put them out at supermarkets, walmarts and K-marts, malls, before you drive on the interstates and on off-ramps.

[Bro.Butch]

After the overnight july3-4 the campaign was contacted by irate city officials from all over America. People attached signs to utility poles, stop signs and many other "illegal" places. I don't like city ordinamces, but that is the "LAW" in these cities until they are struck down by a court. And if its the law I assure you they are going to push you around because they have the AUTHORITY and the "guns of law" behind them. The city won't worry about the gas to take the signs down, the signs will be taken down and thrown away, therefore not helping Dr. Paul. If they are moved to a legal location they will continue to help the campaign.

If you make the city officials mad with you and have the mayor to get on the local news and in the local newspaper decrying these lawless Ron Paul supporters "vandalising/littering" city property you will lose a lot of votes because of it. It's better to work with them "IF" you can, if not get a good lawyer!

As for finding out who is responsible, we know that would be hard to prove on their part, however where I come from I think they keep people on the payrolls just to lie against someone from the witness stand. They can run any of us down that belong to a RP meetup with a little effort by IP address can't they?

[mikelovesgod]

Butch, you know nothing about putting out signs. You are hypothetically sermonizing someone like myself who has put out well over 2,000 signs in his life.

Yes, the city will rip down SOME of them, but not all of them. They will get to all, but it will take a tremendous amount of time. I've done this charade over and over again with the town. The mayor doesn't come out and declare travesties, and the chicken littles of the world will keep screaming the sky is falling.

Put out your signs, do it secretly, preferrably on Friday night so you get a guaranteed Sat and Sun for exposure. Prep your signs before you go outside your car and put them up quickly and go to the next place.

At this point exposure is far more important and worrying about getting an imaginary lawyer on an imaginary situation. My signs used to have my phone # and they couldn't snag me. I would just apologize.

In our case there are no phone #s and no recourse by the city except to threaten people with nothing they can do. They can call the head of a meet-up group, but all they have to say is, "Sorry, but I didn't put those out." Case closed.