PDA

View Full Version : "Old-line Republican warns something in the works." Rawstory article




FreedomLover
07-20-2007, 02:48 AM
Damnit. Finally. It's not about conspiracies, it's not about paranoia, it's about A Healthy Distrust of Government and Looking at the Writing on the Wall.


Thom Hartmann began his program on Thursday by reading from a new Executive Order which allows the government to seize the assets of anyone who interferes with its Iraq policies.

He then introduced old-line conservative Paul Craig Roberts -- a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan who has recently become known for his strong opposition to the Bush administration and the Iraq War -- by quoting the "strong words" which open Roberts' latest column: "Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran."

"I don't actually think they're very strong," said Roberts of his words. "I get a lot of flak that they're understated and the situation is worse than I say. ... When Bush exercises this authority [under the new Executive Order] ... there's no check to it. It doesn't have to be ratified by Congress. The people who bear the brunt of these dictatorial police state actions have no recourse to the judiciary. So it really is a form of total, absolute, one-man rule. ... The American people don't really understand the danger that they face."
Roberts said that because of Bush's unpopularity, the Republicans face a total wipeout in 2008, and this may be why "the Democrats have not brought a halt to Bush's follies or the war, because they expect his unpopular policies to provide them with a landslide victory in next year's election."

However, Roberts emphasized, "the problem with this reasoning is that it assumes that Cheney and Rove and the Republicans are ignorant of these facts, or it assumes that they are content for the Republican Party to be destroyed after Bush has his fling." Roberts believes instead that Cheney and Rove intend to use a renewal of the War on Terror to rally the American people around the Republican Party. "Something's in the works," he said, adding that the Executive Orders need to create a police state are already in place.

"The administration figures themselves and prominent Republican propagandists ... are preparing us for another 9/11 event or series of events," Roberts continued. "Chertoff has predicted them. ... The National Intelligence Estimate is saying that al Qaeda has regrouped. ... You have to count on the fact that if al Qaeda's not going to do it, it's going to be orchestrated. ... The Republicans are praying for another 9/11."

Hartmann asked what we as the people can do if impeachment isn't about to happen. "If enough people were suspicious and alert, it would be harder for the administration to get away with it," Roberts replied. However, he added, "I don't think these wake-up calls are likely to be effective," pointing out the dominance of the mainstream media.

"Americans think their danger is terrorists," said Roberts. "They don't understand the terrorists cannot take away habeas corpus, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. ... The terrorists are not anything like the threat that we face to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution from our own government in the name of fighting terrorism. Americans just aren't able to perceive that."

Roberts pointed out that it's old-line Republicans like himself, former Reagan associate deputy attorney general Bruce Fein, and Pat Buchanan who are the diehards in warning of the danger. "It's so obvious to people like us who have long been associated in the corridors of power," he said. "There's no belief in the people or anything like that. They have agendas. The people are in the way. The Constitution is in the way. ... Americans need to comprehend and look at how ruthless Cheney is. ... A person like that would do anything."

Roberts final suggestion was that, in the absence of a massive popular outcry, "the only constraints on what's going to happen will come from the federal bureaucracy and perhaps the military. They may have had enough. They may not go along with it."

The full audio of Thom Hartmann's interview with Paul Craig Roberts can be found here.



I am not a conspiracy theorist, never have been, but when you read this stuff coming from people from REAGAN'S STAFF, people who have been around the block, you know the threat is real.

This is the consequence of letting big government do as they wish without a peep from either concerned citizens like you or me, or a mainstream media that is either completely useless as a tool for the betterment of society or complicit in it's refusal to showcase these events and abandonment of it's job to inform it's viewers in order to protect our democracy and our individual liberties.

What happened to the "educated, informed, alert citizenry" that our democracy needs to flourish?

Why does your average joe associate distrust of the government with fringe conspiracy nuts? To Not Trust Your Government Is The True Sign Of Patriotism! The entire reason there is a bill of rights and seperation of powers is to give the people the tools to fend off encroachment from an increasingly powerful central government should it ever become a menace. And that time is right now.

Lately, our leaders in washington have been treating our constitution like a novelty, slipping past a check on power here, cutting an amendment out here, stripping congressional powers and oversight there, and not revering it as they should be. All for the sake of increased "security" ?

Yes, we should be more alert, but not for the mystical muslim terrorists hanging out in a cave 4000 miles away, but for a government which has interjected itself around the world, whose foreign policy escapades have been utter failures and rejected, and has come back to ask we the people to protect not we the people, but the government, from retribution for it's global fuckups.

Don't be fooled about the intentions of our leaders when a bomb finally goes off in some populated american city, whether they knew about and let it happen, or didn't know about it but expected it, their next steps in the ensuing days will be to strangle us with fear and console us with vengeance for the new front on the global war on an idea. And the America you thought you lived in will be over with, and you will never see your precious freedoms Or security ever again.

Unless...we the people learn to step being afraid.

Rant done.

Spirit of '76
07-20-2007, 05:28 AM
Source?

freelance
07-20-2007, 05:42 AM
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Oldline_Republican_warns_somethings_in_works_0719. html

Spirit of '76
07-20-2007, 05:49 AM
Thanks. :)

Gee
07-20-2007, 06:27 AM
I really don't think the military, or the people, would stand for it. Bush or Cheney would just get shot. I mean, everyone hates them. Even most of their own party don't want them in office. Just like Virgina's state moto... Sic semper tyrannis.

Falseflagop
07-20-2007, 06:35 AM
Great post have read this elsewhere! And kudos to Dr. Paul for mentioning the same in PUBLIC that alone takes balls but put his name on notice should anything happen the people can say hey HE WARNED US!


We need RON PAUL more than ever!

NCGOPer_for_Paul
07-20-2007, 06:39 AM
I'm not so sure Gee. While I don't give a lot of creedence to consipracy theories or even necessarily believe Bush/Cheney are up to something like this, the possibility does exist.

Ever since the wall came down in Berlin and the bad guys in the Soviet Union gave up, we haven't had a bogeyman to point to as the "enemy". When we were "fighting" the Soviets, government didn't have a lot of energy to restrict freedom because "Soviets weren't among us." Sure, we had the Red Scare of the early '50's, but that didn't hit the majority of citizens.

Now, when the enemy is radical Islam (yes, I personally believe there is an enemy there, but not worth fighting a "war" in Iraq over, or worth restricting freedom over), neo-cons use this to go after our indivdual liberty.

I don't believe we're going to get a dictatorship state with King Bush, but laws are being written to restrict freedom under the guise of safety and "good for society", i.e. DUI and "safety" checkpoints, restrictions of OTC drug sales, fairness doctrine revisions, etc.

markpa
07-20-2007, 07:01 AM
If Bush has the power to take away a citizens personal assets for opposing a policy (the war) then we have already lost our freedom.

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 07:09 AM
We need RON PAUL more than ever!

No kidding! The stuff going on today is really beyond belief. The only thing giving me hope is the possibility of getting Ron Paul elected. We simply have to do it.

freelance
07-20-2007, 07:15 AM
Oh, and you'll love the ending!

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21558

Tonkin Gulf II and the Guns of August?
by Patrick J. Buchanan
Posted: 07/17/2007

Is the United States provoking war with Iran, to begin while the Congress is conveniently on its August recess?

One recalls that it was in August 1964, after the Republicans nominated Barry Goldwater, that the Tonkin Gulf incident occurred.

Twice it was said, on Aug. 2 and Aug. 4, North Vietnamese patrol boats had attacked the U.S. destroyers Maddox and Turner Joy in international waters. The U.S. Senate responded by voting 88 to two to authorize President Johnson to assist any Southeast Asian nation whose government was threatened by communist aggression.

The bombing of the North began, followed by the arrival of U.S. Marines. America's war was on.

As Congress prepares for its August recess, the probability of U.S. air strikes on Iran rises with each week. A third carrier, the USS Enterprise, and its battle group is joining the Nimitz and Stennis in the largest concentration of U.S. naval power ever off the coast of Iran.

And Tonkin Gulf II may have already occurred.

In Baghdad, on July 1, Gen. Kevin J. Bergner charged that Iranians planned the January raid in Karbala, using commandos in American-style uniforms, that resulted in the death of five U.S. soldiers.

As The New York Times reports, this "marks the first time that the United States has charged that Iranian officials have helped plan operations against American troops in Iraq and have had advance knowledge of specific attacks that have led to the death of American soldiers."

The Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards is using Hezbollah to train Shiites to attack our soldiers and providing them with enhanced IEDs that have killed scores of U.S. troops, Bergner charged. He says we have captured a veteran Hezbollah agent and documents pointing to direct Iranian complicity in the Karbala raid.

Iran has denounced the charge as "ridiculous." But the Senate has voted 97 to zero to censure Iran for complicity in killing the Americans.

If what Bergner alleges is true, President Bush has not only the right but appears to have the blessing of Congress to attack Iran. And he now has the naval and air forces at hand. What is stopping him?

For it is surely not Congress, which buried a resolution last spring declaring that Bush must come to Congress before taking us into a new war in the Middle East. Congress appears to be signaling Bush: "If you want to hit Iran, you have the green light. No need to consult us."

Is this yet another abdication by Congress of its moral and constitutional duty to decide when and whether America goes to war?

And something smells awfully fishy here.

Iran has no interest in a war with the United States, which it seems to be toying with. Iran supports the pro-American Shia regime in Baghdad. And the al-Qaida umbrella group in Iraq, which is our mortal enemy, has just warned Iran it faces terror attacks if it does not stop supporting Shiites in Iraq.

Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, who leads the al-Qaida group known as the Islamic State in Iraq, says his fighters have been preparing for four years for war on Iran:

"We are giving the Persians, and especially the rulers of Iran, a two-month period to end all kinds of support for the Iraqi Shiite government and to stop direct and indirect intervention -- otherwise a severe war is waiting for you," al-Baghdadi said in a 50-minute videotape.

Al-Baghdadi also warned Arab Sunnis in the region who do business with Shiites in Iran that they were inviting assassination.

Query: If Iran's ally, the Maliki government, is our ally, and if Iran's enemy, al-Qaida in Iraq, is our enemy, why would Iran use the Quds Force to attack Americans and risk U.S. retaliation?

Killing Americans in Iraq is not going to defeat the United States. But it could trigger heavy U.S. retaliation, not only on the Quds Force, but on Iran's nuclear facilities -- and a war with the United States. Yet Iran's diplomatic behavior suggests it wishes to avoid such a war.

Another explanation comes to mind. Iran is not initiating, but is responding to U.S.-inspired attacks inside Iran, in the Kurdish north, the Arab southwest and the Baluchi southeast of its country. Was Karbala an attempted kidnapping to exchange U.S. soldiers for the five Iranian "diplomats" we are holding?

Has Bush secretly authorized covert attacks inside Iran? Are U.S. and Israeli agents in Kurdistan behind the attacks across the border to provoke Iran? On July 11, Iranian troops clashed with Kurd rebels inside Iran, and the Iranians fired artillery back into Iraq.

Why is Congress going on vacation? Why are a Democratic-controlled House and Senate not asking these questions in public hearings? Why is Congress letting Bush and Vice President Cheney decide whether we launch a third war in the Middle East?

Or is Congress in on it?

R_Harris
07-20-2007, 07:21 AM
The neocons had already written Paul Craig Roberts off a long time ago as a treasonous traitor.

robatsu
07-20-2007, 08:48 AM
I really don't think the military, or the people, would stand for it.

Being a military veteran (enlisted USMC sniper, then submarine officer), I'd really like to believe that this would be true. But just like our political system has slouched towards tyranny, so to can things like the military. Look at what has happened to civil law enforcement agencies - who would have ever thought local police forces could be transformed into heavily armed terminators willing to gun down "kooks", engage in storm trooper raids, etc. But that has happened. It can happen w/our military, despite the best intentions of some of its members. You just keep canning officers until you get some that go along (like happened with Iraq) and, while the institution might ultimately collapse and refuse orders, it will certainly go along with the program for a while.

Tin_Foil_Hat
07-20-2007, 10:06 AM
Alex Jones just announced Paul Craig Roberts will be special guest on today's show. No doubt to talk about this very subject...

DisabledVet
07-20-2007, 10:17 AM
Remember the post on this website earlier this week about the US getting ready for a domestic clampdown? Hmmmmmmm?

PatriotOne
07-20-2007, 10:27 AM
I don't suppose anyone remembers us crazy "conspiracy theorists" on this board talking about all this months ago. Maybe we are not so crazy after all, eh?

LibertyEagle
07-20-2007, 11:12 AM
I don't suppose anyone remembers us crazy "conspiracy theorists" on this board talking about all this months ago. Maybe we are not so crazy after all, eh?

Heck, I believe in conspiracies too; just not the one that is usually the topic of conversation on this board.

freelance
07-20-2007, 11:15 AM
And this was all before anyone knew that Cheney will ACTING PRESIDENT for the weekend:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Cheney_to_take_charge_of_government_0720.html

WannaBfree
07-20-2007, 11:16 AM
Remember the post on this website earlier this week about the US getting ready for a domestic clampdown? Hmmmmmmm?

Yes, the story was sent to the free speech dungeon.

Gee
07-20-2007, 03:48 PM
Being a military veteran (enlisted USMC sniper, then submarine officer), I'd really like to believe that this would be true. But just like our political system has slouched towards tyranny, so to can things like the military. Look at what has happened to civil law enforcement agencies - who would have ever thought local police forces could be transformed into heavily armed terminators willing to gun down "kooks", engage in storm trooper raids, etc. But that has happened. It can happen w/our military, despite the best intentions of some of its members. You just keep canning officers until you get some that go along (like happened with Iraq) and, while the institution might ultimately collapse and refuse orders, it will certainly go along with the program for a while.
I suppose it happened in Germany, didn't it? But Hitler was far more charismatic, well-liked, and had the weight of the oppressive treaty of Versailles behind him.

But I take your point. I considered joining the military, but decided it was a stupid thing to do, considering our foreign policy. I'd imagine a lot of the people who are still in it, at least high-up, are supportive of the overall policies since WWII.


I don't suppose anyone remembers us crazy "conspiracy theorists" on this board talking about all this months ago. Maybe we are not so crazy after all, eh?
Dr. Paul mentioned a possible Gulf of Tonkin-like incident years ago. Its not really a conspiracy, its common practice in politics.

joenaab
07-20-2007, 05:38 PM
I really don't think the military, or the people, would stand for it. Bush or Cheney would just get shot. I mean, everyone hates them. Even most of their own party don't want them in office. Just like Virgina's state moto... Sic semper tyrannis.

That's all Americans have ever done, is "stand for it". They seem to have an unlimited capacity for allowing themselves to be used and deceived and trampled on. Do they even have a breaking point? I think every last penny, every last job, every last constitutional right and many, many more lives will have to be taken from them before they, en masse, get up off the sofa and take action. And I'm not so confident that they would, even under those conditions.