Ok, It's past 1:30 whats the big swiftboat thing

[j6p]

Some cannidate was going to be swiftboated???

[caedic]

Some cannidate was going to be swiftboated???

Maybe it was Ron Paul and nobody is reporting it :p

[Swmorgan77]

Maybe it was Ron Paul and nobody is reporting it :p

LOL

[btwilli1]

A Former TV Business Editor/Reporter and Decorated War Hero 'Swift
Boats' Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney -- With Well-Documented Facts

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- In 2004, John Kerry faced
opposition from an unexpected quarter -- his fellow Swift Boat veterans
from Vietnam. In 2008, it's Mitt Romney's turn to be "Swift-Boated" -- but
this time, instead of unsubstantiated innuendo, Romney is "Swift Boated"
with a comprehensively-researched, solidly fact-based book -- Mitt, Set Our
People Free! Like Toto in Oz, this book tears away the curtain and reveals
the truth behind the Mormon Church and its beliefs about the U.S.
Presidency -- and what that will mean to "President" Mitt Romney.

This exciting new book -- Mitt, Set Our People Free! -- published by
Revelation Press, reveals just how Mitt Romney's sacred oath to the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons or the LDS --
including a vow of obedience to the "Living Prophet," the President of the
LDS Church -- will impact his ability to govern as President of the United
States.

Jesus said that man cannot serve two masters -- but if Romney is
elected President, he will have to serve two conflicting oaths. American
Presidents swear an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution
of the United States. However, this Presidential Oath is in direct conflict
with Romney's sacred oath to his Mormon Church -- a blood oath which puts
Romney's life, fortune and obedience at the unrestricted service of his
Church. This obedience is defined by the Church's Living Prophet, the
President of the Mormon Church and -- as they believe -- the literal Voice
of God on earth.

According to author Mike Moody, "One of the LDS Church's basic tenets
is a prophecy from founder and First Prophet Joseph Smith that in the
latter days, the U.S. Constitution will 'hang by a thread as fine as silk
fiber' until a Mormon leader rides in on his White Horse to save the U.S.
and the Constitution -- then use his control of the United States to set up
a world-wide theocracy, one based on the clearly unorthodox beliefs of the
Church of Latter Day Saints."

From the daily paul http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22378

[Swmorgan77]

I heard Rush today talking about "this idea that we treat our enemies the way we would like to be treated.." and then talking about how it was what Huckabee was saying.

He has to attack RP's ideas, but they can't give him the attention of actually attributing the ideas to him.

[Talldude1412]

Romney is being swiftboated by some guy who has written a very well researched fully supported hit on him for his mormonism, basically he can't serve the US and LDS at the same time without conflicting interests according to him.

[dirka]

its about Romney and his oath to the Morman Church

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-07-2008/0004731972&EDATE=

[charger]

Wow so the big news is that Romney is a Mormon!

[Bob Spruill]

Huge scandal here.
Romney is a Mormon.

[newmedia4ron]

Stop paying too much attention to the internets.

[Elwar]

This is non-news. Just like Catholics are supposed to follow everything the pope says according to doctrine. Kennedy proved that this wasn't a factor.

Mitt changed his views when he saw the possibility of becoming president. This should be enough for anyone.

He's a male Hillary.

[Swmorgan77]

A Former TV Business Editor/Reporter and Decorated War Hero 'Swift
Boats' Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney -- With Well-Documented Facts

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- In 2004, John Kerry faced
opposition from an unexpected quarter -- his fellow Swift Boat veterans
from Vietnam. In 2008, it's Mitt Romney's turn to be "Swift-Boated" -- but
this time, instead of unsubstantiated innuendo, Romney is "Swift Boated"
with a comprehensively-researched, solidly fact-based book -- Mitt, Set Our
People Free! Like Toto in Oz, this book tears away the curtain and reveals
the truth behind the Mormon Church and its beliefs about the U.S.
Presidency -- and what that will mean to "President" Mitt Romney.

This exciting new book -- Mitt, Set Our People Free! -- published by
Revelation Press, reveals just how Mitt Romney's sacred oath to the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons or the LDS --
including a vow of obedience to the "Living Prophet," the President of the
LDS Church -- will impact his ability to govern as President of the United
States.

Jesus said that man cannot serve two masters -- but if Romney is
elected President, he will have to serve two conflicting oaths. American
Presidents swear an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution
of the United States. However, this Presidential Oath is in direct conflict
with Romney's sacred oath to his Mormon Church -- a blood oath which puts
Romney's life, fortune and obedience at the unrestricted service of his
Church. This obedience is defined by the Church's Living Prophet, the
President of the Mormon Church and -- as they believe -- the literal Voice
of God on earth.

According to author Mike Moody, "One of the LDS Church's basic tenets
is a prophecy from founder and First Prophet Joseph Smith that in the
latter days, the U.S. Constitution will 'hang by a thread as fine as silk
fiber' until a Mormon leader rides in on his White Horse to save the U.S.
and the Constitution -- then use his control of the United States to set up
a world-wide theocracy, one based on the clearly unorthodox beliefs of the
Church of Latter Day Saints."

From the daily paul http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22378

This came out months ago. Romney has already denied that he believes in the prophecy.

Ironically, it is a VERY WELL ESTABLISHED LDS belief, however the "White Horse Prophecy" which is the context it is refferred to in this article has been somewhat debunked. There are several other documented occoasions on which Joseph Smith Jr. made this prophecy and it has been reiterated by every LDS prophet at one point.

Here is the exact wording of the prophecy, in the form that we have confirmed documentation. It may have been related by J.S. Smith to others in different terms at other times, but the documentation on those is much more dubious.

"Even this nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground, and when the Constitution is upon the brink of ruin, this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean, and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction” (19 July 1840, as recorded by Martha Jane Knowlton Coray; ms. in Church Historian’s Office, Salt Lake City).

Below is a good statement regarding it by Ezra Taft Benson (Eisenhower's Sec. of Agriculture, and a Taft Republican) in this speech in 1986 to the LDS people:

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d 82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=632e79356427b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

I am LDS and I believe the prophecy, however it is clear that the Constitution will not be saved by a powerful, charismatic Mormon leader... especially one who like Mitt who has zero respect for it or inclination to save it.

In the article above Benson said it would be saved by "Members of the church along with enlightened citizens of other faiths". Church leaders have been clear to stress on this when speaking about it (which they don't anymore) that the Constitution could only be saved by a bottom-up movement of citizens and not by some act of heirarchical control by the Church.

[Ninja Homer]

Flip Romney is a Mormon!?!

Amazing... amazing :rolleyes:

[rpfan2008]

He's a male Hillary.

lol

[slantedview]

Maybe it was Ron Paul and nobody is reporting it :p

HAHAHAHAHA LMAO

[Eponym_mi]

It would been news if the article said Mitt had 10 wives. Jeez...talk about anti-climatic.

[V-rod]

http://www.lafferty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fail-24.jpg

[Redcard]

Hah.

And yet, people will still insist that Ron doesn't care what religion you are, and would attempt to use this hit piece.

Look, Christianity says that when the end times come, you are to stand behind Jesus, EVEN AS GOVERNMENTS REFUSE TO. So when push comes to shove, Christians are going to go with God over this country, if that is the need. Every religion on this earth will trump every country on this earth, until people stop relying on religion.

Mitt's religion should not be an issue here, and it should not be one with us. There are many other things to attack him on, and hitting him on his Mormonism is NO DIFFERENT than Huck winning because he's a Christian. It's a dirty game, and it's not one I think we should play. We're supposed to be BETTER than this. Ron's supposed to be better than this.

[SteveMartin]

Do we know for sure yet that THIS was the swift boat thing referred to???

Geez...I hope not...

McCain has a TON of dirt that needs exposing.

[Redcard]

Do we know for sure yet that THIS was the swift boat thing referred to???

Geez...I hope not...

McCain has a TON of dirt that needs exposing.

That Press release reads like the earlier one that was sent out.

I think this is it.

[angelatc]

Wow. How anti-climactic. I suspect I'll see that book in the $1.99 bargain bin before the end of the month. Right next to those Hillary tell-alls that came out a few months back.

[Redcard]

Wow. How anti-climactic. I suspect I'll see that book in the $1.99 bargain bin before the end of the month. Right next to those Hillary tell-alls that came out a few months back.

I don't even expect that. I expect to be handed it on the street by the raving madman who thinks that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is real.

[amy31416]

its about Romney and his oath to the Morman Church

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-07-2008/0004731972&EDATE=

That's a bunch of crap and is certainly no "swift boating."

I don't like Romney, I don't like Mormonism--but that's so freaking amateur as to be laughable. There's far worse stuff out there about Mitt.

[Redcard]

That's a bunch of crap and is certainly no "swift boating."

I don't like Romney, I don't like Mormonism--but that's so freaking amateur as to be laughable. There's far worse stuff out there about Mitt.

No, it's a swiftboating, allright.

Taking someone and twisting them into something they are not , and then bashing that thing that they are not.. that seems swiftboatish to me.

[r3volution]

lame

[Johncjackson]

I must admit this was lame. I was hoping for a real Swiftboating of one of the neocons.

Who does this help, Huckabee?

[ValidusCustodiae]

You guys don't realize how true all this is.

I'm not sure if Romney is a temple Mormon, but if he is that means he has taken secret oaths of fealty to the church. It's the only way you get to be a temple Mormon. You most certainly can't attack someone because of their religion. You can, however, criticize them for making these oaths since the potential exists that such a person would put their own religion above the Constitution. It's a fact that Mormons have done their best to inject themselves into the political world since they were founded. To what ends remains to be seen, but there is definitely a concerted effort.

To help some of you understand, the temple Mormons conduct many similar rituals to those of the Freemasons. The symbols they use are handed down from the Freemasons, they use the square and compass and eye of Horus among many others.

http://www.utlm.org/images/masonictemplearticle/sunstonevol10no5may1985_p41.gif
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6276/eyech6.jpg

The beehive, the keystone, the pillars of jachin and boaz, as well as pentagrams and hexagrams are all frequently used Mormon symbols that have been "borrowed" from Freemasonry. I could keep going on to make my point, but anybody interested can find this stuff out anyway.

[Swmorgan77]

You guys don't realize how true all this is.

I'm not sure if Romney is a temple Mormon, but if he is that means he has taken secret oaths of fealty to the church. It's the only way you get to be a temple Mormon. You most certainly can't attack someone because of their religion. You can, however, criticize them for making these oaths since the potential exists that such a person would put their own religion above the Constitution. It's a fact that Mormons have done their best to inject themselves into the political world since they were founded. To what ends remains to be seen, but there is definitely a concerted effort.

To help some of you understand, the temple Mormons conduct many similar rituals to those of the Freemasons. The symbols they use are handed down from the Freemasons, they use the square and compass and eye of Horus among many others.

http://www.utlm.org/images/masonictemplearticle/sunstonevol10no5may1985_p41.gif
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6276/eyech6.jpg

The beehive, the keystone, the pillars of jachin and boaz, as well as pentagrams and hexagrams are all frequently used Mormon symbols that have been "borrowed" from Freemasonry. I could keep going on to make my point, but anybody interested can find this stuff out anyway.

Yeah and Washington and Jefferson were Masons... so what?

We (Mormons) are also the only major denomination that I am aware that actually holds, as a point of doctrine, that the Constitution of the United States was inspired and should be maintained. There would never be a conflict between upholding the beliefs of the Church or the Constitution because the divinity of the Constitution is a fundamental belief of the Church. Mitt may not have a good conception of the Constitution, but then he doesn't even have more than a very cursory understanding of the beliefs of his own faith, and that is my observation after careful examination of his statements. The bottom line is that the more "Mormon" Romney is in bringing his beliefs into politics, the more his politics would be like Ron Paul's.

This fundamental belief in the divine influence on the Constitution also makes Mormons potentially very friendly to Ron Paul's message. I don't see any point in alienating a lot of potential supporters with posts like this.

"Temple Mormons" are not some elite priveliged class or some ruling "inner circle" within the Church. All members are encouraged to to attend after being a member for one year. Presidents of the Church have asked all members to attend the temple regularly. Those who do not go do so because they don't want to, not because they are waiting for some elitist privelige to be bestowed upon them.

Your characterizations are just silly.

If you want a good example of how much of an ally of our case a devout and knowledgable Mormon can be, you need look no further than Ezra Taft Benson.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/people/ezra_taft_benson.html

[yongrel]

That was the single most anti-climactic moment of this primary season.

I thought for sure that someone was gonna reveal that John McCain eats babies.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Yeah and Washington and Jefferson were Masons... so what?

We (Mormons) are also the only major denomination that I am aware that actually holds, as a point of doctrine, that the Constitution of the United States was inspired and should be maintained. This makes Mormons potentially very friendly to Ron Paul's message. I don't see any point in alienating a lot of potential supporters with posts like this.

"Temple Mormons" are not some elite priveliged class or some ruling "inner circle" within the Church. All members are encouraged to to attend after being a member for one year. Presidents of the Church have asked all members to attend the temple regularly. Those who do not go do so because they don't want to, not because they are waiting for some elitist privelige to be bestowed upon them.

Your characterizations are just silly.

I agree, silly. Are you saying that Mormons initiated into the temple do not take oaths? Are you saying that the secrety society of Freemasons poses no threat to our government? Are you aware that Washington left the Freemasons of his own will, and that Washington not only knew about, talked about, but also fought against the Illuminati?

Did you know that it is a stated goal of Freemasons to rebuild the temple of King Solomon? This would require the demolition of two of Islam's holiest sites, the Al'Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock, which both stand on the site of the ancient temple. Did you know that one of the highest orders of Freemasonry is B'Nai B'Rith whose headquarters is in Israel?

All of this is connected. I'm not trying to alienate Mormons. I'm just referencing some of the more troubling aspects of Mormonism.

[Wyurm]

So? most of the candidates are members of the CFR and have a degree of loyalty to that "think-tank". Most of the candidates do not and will not serve the Constitution or the people. I'm sorry but this is not really a "revelation". I was expecting actuall dirt, not the obvious. In the words of my wife: "tell me something I don't know"

[UtahApocalypse]

As a Mormon I absolutely cannot believe this. If they had actually studied the religion they would know that part of our doctrine holds the constitution to the utmost regard. I have had enough of the Mormon bashing from everyone. MITT ROMNEY just got my vote.

[Redcard]

I agree, silly. Are you saying that Mormons initiated into the temple do not take oaths? Are you saying that the secrety society of Freemasons poses no threat to our government? Are you aware that Washington left the Freemasons of his own will, and that Washington not only knew about, talked about, but also fought against the Illuminati?

Did you know that it is a stated goal of Freemasons to rebuild the temple of King Solomon? This would require the demolition of two of Islam's holiest sites, the Al'Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock, which both stand on the site of the ancient temple. Did you know that one of the highest orders of Freemasonry is B'Nai B'Rith whose headquarters is in Israel?

All of this is connected. I'm not trying to alienate Mormons. I'm just referencing some of the more troubling aspects of Mormonism.


No, you're sounding like a loony , and this is why people are having a hard time voting for Ron Paul.

[ValidusCustodiae]

At any rate, why aren't Mormons more open about their connections to Freemasonry? They even wear masonic aprons of lambskin (to symbolize their new innocence) which are given to them as soon as they are initiated!

If Mormonism is just Freemasonry under a different name, it begs the question why? Being so secretive does make people wonder.

[Redcard]

At any rate, why aren't Mormons more open about their connections to Freemasonry? They even wear masonic aprons of lambskin (to symbolize their new innocence) which are given to them as soon as they are initiated!

If Mormonism is just Freemasonry under a different name, it begs the question why? Being so secretive does make people wonder.

AND WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN THIS THREAD TO DRAW PEOPLE IN TO DR PAUL'S MESSAGE?

All you are doing is saying that this candidate is for the "Illuminati beliving tin-foil wearing nutballs."

It's hard enough combatting against all the Truthers who use Ron Paul as a springboard to talk about the Jews intentionally siding with the media and the Preisdent and pulling off 9/11... Please.. stop making my job harder.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Here's to the crazy ones.

To the guy up there that said he's voting for Romney now, it's sad you are ready to abandon logic and reason in favor of an emotional response, but that's your choice and it's your vote.

I'm not religious at all. I'd have no problem voting for Romney if he had a platform like Ron Paul's. I WOULD want to ask him which oath would hold more weight though, the temple oath or the oath of office.

If a Rastafarian was running for President, are you saying it would be wrong to expect him not to smoke up the White House?

[Talldude1412]

** The Opinions Expressed in this thread and any others are not those of Ron Paul's policies or himself, do not mistake these opinions for being a popular belief amongst Ron Paul voters or anyone other than the posters themselves.**

-- We need to add these disclaimers for those unwilling to drop their agendas to support Ron Paul. It's just irresponsible.

[Swmorgan77]

I agree, silly. Are you saying that Mormons initiated into the temple do not take oaths? Are you saying that the secrety society of Freemasons poses no threat to our government?

We make covenants, just like the Lord has done with believing people all throughout history. We do not take blood oaths.

I don't know if Masons pose a threat, but I'm not a Mason and I don't have to answer for them. I can tell you a Mormon who knows his religion doesn't, because it is a fundamental belief that the Constituiton is insipired AND ought to be maintained and held inviolate. (D&C 98, 134)


Did you know that it is a stated goal of Freemasons to rebuild the temple of King Solomon? This would require the demolition of two of Islam's holiest sites, the Al'Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock, which both stand on the site of the ancient temple. Did you know that one of the highest orders of Freemasonry is B'Nai B'Rith whose headquarters is in Israel?

All of this is connected. I'm not trying to alienate Mormons. I'm just referencing some of the more troubling aspects of Mormonism.

So what? I'm not a FreeMason.

Did you hear the PBS Moyers interview Ron Paul did where he mentioned he thought it was shameful how Romney is being mobilized against because of his religion in Iowa? These are old, ad-hominem silly attacks. The fact is that an LDS believer who knows his religion is one of the greatest potential allies we have in the POLITICAL ARENA. This sort of dumb infighting over religion is just pointless.

[AlabamaWildMan]

I have a very good friend that's a Morman... AND a dyed-in-the-wool Supporter of Dr. Paul !! !!

I've just sent that story/link to him for his input.

I'm very curious about this one ! !!

[ValidusCustodiae]

I get attacked on these boards every time I say something that might be unpopular. I was just taking part in a discussion, apparently one in which I'm not welcome unless I totally ignore what should be very important aspects of that discussion.

I will say one thing, refusing to debate the issues and simply calling me a nutjob is exactly how Paul's opponents treat him. When you can't have an intelligent discussion, resort to character assassination.

[Redcard]

I get attacked on these boards every time I say something that might be unpopular. I was just taking part in a discussion, apparently one in which I'm not welcome unless I totally ignore what should be very important aspects of that discussion.

I will say one thing, refusing to debate the issues and simply calling me a nutjob is exactly how Paul's opponents treat him. When you can't have an intelligent discussion, resort to character assassination.

Says the man who just character assassinated an entire religious faith over some conspiracy nutballs.

Look, Dr. Paul doesn't make religion an aspect of this bullshit election for a reason. If you're a FAN OF HIS, then respect his beliefs. Stop, please. You are the reason why this man is so hard to sell.

[AlabamaWildMan]

"...Mitt changed his views ..."


You mean...AGAIN !!??!! :p

[ecliptic]

Let's interject here that last election we had a choice between two Skull & Bones members - both of whom swore oaths of allegiance on penalty of death to Skull & Bones first and foremost.

It is time to call every politician out on these secret societies.

It's time to put this issue on the "front burner" though perhaps not by Ron Paul himself, nor in a manner that is directly connected to his campaign. Just American citizens standing up and asking the obvious question:

"Which oath is foremost? Your secret society membership oath on penalty of death... or your oath to uphold and defend the Constitution?"

By simply asking this question we can raise awareness and shine a bright light on the Illuminati scumsucking traitors lurking amongst us.

[torchbearer]

A Former TV Business Editor/Reporter and Decorated War Hero 'Swift
Boats' Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney -- With Well-Documented Facts

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- In 2004, John Kerry faced
opposition from an unexpected quarter -- his fellow Swift Boat veterans
from Vietnam. In 2008, it's Mitt Romney's turn to be "Swift-Boated" -- but
this time, instead of unsubstantiated innuendo, Romney is "Swift Boated"
with a comprehensively-researched, solidly fact-based book -- Mitt, Set Our
People Free! Like Toto in Oz, this book tears away the curtain and reveals
the truth behind the Mormon Church and its beliefs about the U.S.
Presidency -- and what that will mean to "President" Mitt Romney.

This exciting new book -- Mitt, Set Our People Free! -- published by
Revelation Press, reveals just how Mitt Romney's sacred oath to the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons or the LDS --
including a vow of obedience to the "Living Prophet," the President of the
LDS Church -- will impact his ability to govern as President of the United
States.

Jesus said that man cannot serve two masters -- but if Romney is
elected President, he will have to serve two conflicting oaths. American
Presidents swear an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution
of the United States. However, this Presidential Oath is in direct conflict
with Romney's sacred oath to his Mormon Church -- a blood oath which puts
Romney's life, fortune and obedience at the unrestricted service of his
Church. This obedience is defined by the Church's Living Prophet, the
President of the Mormon Church and -- as they believe -- the literal Voice
of God on earth.

According to author Mike Moody, "One of the LDS Church's basic tenets
is a prophecy from founder and First Prophet Joseph Smith that in the
latter days, the U.S. Constitution will 'hang by a thread as fine as silk
fiber' until a Mormon leader rides in on his White Horse to save the U.S.
and the Constitution -- then use his control of the United States to set up
a world-wide theocracy, one based on the clearly unorthodox beliefs of the
Church of Latter Day Saints."

From the daily paul http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22378

They say the same thing about catholics, but kennedy didn't allow the Pope to dictate his policies.

[ValidusCustodiae]

** The Opinions Expressed in this thread and any others are not those of Ron Paul's policies or himself, do not mistake these opinions for being a popular belief amongst Ron Paul voters or anyone other than the posters themselves.**

-- We need to add these disclaimers for those unwilling to drop their agendas to support Ron Paul. It's just irresponsible.

I don't have an agenda. I'm taking part in a discussion. I'm not going to live my life according to your dictates just because you think it might hurt Ron Paul's campaign. I don't show up to Ron Paul rallies with any other messages than liberty, the Constitution, and a return to limited government. Ron Paul. I have more tact than you're giving me credit for. This is a message board thread discussion on Romney's connections to his church. I am on topic. While Ron Paul has been the focus of much of my life over the past 10 months, there are other subjects that interest me and I can't be expected to keep my mouth shut when they begin being discussed.

Again, my opinion may not be popular, but I'm entitled to it.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Says the man who just character assassinated an entire religious faith over some conspiracy nutballs.

Look, Dr. Paul doesn't make religion an aspect of this bullshit election for a reason. If you're a FAN OF HIS, then respect his beliefs. Stop, please. You are the reason why this man is so hard to sell.

Excuse me, I am the reason Ron Paul is hard to sell?

How is it so easy for ME to sell RON PAUL to people then?

Just today I converted a confirmed Giuliani vote to a confirmed Ron Paul vote.

You're not the only one working hard for Ron Paul.

[Talldude1412]

I don't have an agenda. I'm taking part in a discussion. I'm not going to live my life according to your dictates just because you think it might hurt Ron Paul's campaign. I don't show up to Ron Paul rallies with any other messages than liberty, the Constitution, and a return to limited government. Ron Paul. I have more tact than you're giving me credit for. This is a message board thread discussion on Romney's connections to his church. I am on topic. While Ron Paul has been the focus of much of my life over the past 10 months, there are other subjects that interest me and I can't be expected to keep my mouth shut when they begin being discussed.

Again, my opinion may not be popular, but I'm entitled to it.

You are entitled to say whatever you please, I'm just pointing out that it isn't anything to do with Ron Paul or anything he has said or stands for. It's just your two cents. But you have to realize we shouldn't be alienating people by accusing their religions of being corrupt. It's literally not worth discussing, as it will only serve to push away those who thinking its just a crazy conspiracy, and insult those adhering to the religion. What do you gain?

[ValidusCustodiae]

They say the same thing about catholics, but kennedy didn't allow the Pope to dictate his policies.

As far as I know, Catholics don't put their hands on a bible while swearing allegiance to their church as part of a ceremony.

Mormons do. And so do Freemasons.

[ValidusCustodiae]

You are entitled to say whatever you please, I'm just pointing out that it isn't anything to do with Ron Paul or anything he has said or stands for. It's just your two cents. But you have to realize we shouldn't be alienating people by accusing their religions of being corrupt. It's literally not worth discussing, as it will only serve to push away those who thinking its just a crazy conspiracy, and insult those adhering to the religion. What do you gain?

There's a lot to gain from being honest and discussing things which most people don't want to.

[UtahApocalypse]

As far as I know, Catholics don't put their hands on a bible while swearing allegiance to their church as part of a ceremony.

Mormons do. And so do Freemasons.

Mormons also do not do that. We are babtized in water. and Give prayer.

[Talldude1412]

By simply asking this question we can raise awareness and shine a bright light on the Illuminati scumsucking traitors lurking amongst us.

You won't be calling anyone out unless you have irrefutable proof of the intents and existence of such organizations.

[Redcard]

You won't be calling anyone out unless you have irrefutable proof of the intents and existence of such organizations.

Well, of course they don't have that, TallDude. They're a SECRET organization and have been around since the dawn of time corrupting and controlling history, you don't think they'd leave PROOF around available, do you? I mean, let's all get afraid of the big evil shadowy controlling government. That's what Ron would want us to be, isn't it? Afraid? Seeing conspiracies everywhere?

[Guymontag]

As a Mormon I absolutely cannot believe this. If they had actually studied the religion they would know that part of our doctrine holds the constitution to the utmost regard. I have had enough of the Mormon bashing from everyone. MITT ROMNEY just got my vote.

lol mormons


Galatians 1:6-9

No Other Gospel

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!


Looks like the Bible was right on. No offense to the LDS in the house but its a plain as day in the Bible, which as far as I know is still studied by Mormons.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Mormons also do not do that. We are babtized in water. and Give prayer.

Regular Mormons do not. There is a difference between a Mormon and a Mormon that has been initiated into the Temple. It is this initiation rite which involves the oaths which is required to be a Temple Mormon.

Like I said in my earlier post, I'm not sure if Romney is just a Mormon or one who has been initiated. All I'm interested in knowing is if Romney has been initiated and therefore has taken oaths of fealty to his church which supersede all other oaths. This is a legitimate matter of concern.

[Talldude1412]

There's a lot to gain from being honest and discussing things which most people don't want to.

Humor me, what are you gaining from such a discussion with a bunch of people on the internet who know nothing about which you are speaking, and comes a crossed very conspiracy theory looking? Intellectual bravado?

[BeFranklin]

It is time to call every politician out on these secret societies.

"Which oath is foremost? Your secret society membership oath on penalty of death... or your oath to uphold and defend the Constitution?"



For those who don't believe that these politicians take these secret oaths seriously, we could ask a santa clause question: Doesn't lying or being lied to about a supernatural figure as a kid make you less likely to believe in God? Or likewise, doesn't lying about an oath or pretending to take a secret oath make you more likely not to take holding your oath of office under the constitution seriously?

Our politicians are not keeping their oaths. Could it be because they've been "pretend playing" on how fun it is to lie about sacred oaths with all the pretend secret society ones?

[ValidusCustodiae]

Humor me, what are you gaining from such a discussion with a bunch of people on the internet who know nothing about which you are speaking, and comes a crossed very conspiracy theory looking? Intellectual bravado?

I might not be the one to gain. And you'd be surprised just how many people know exactly what I'm talking about. Real people who are not "tin foil hat wearing nutjobs".

I find this subject to be very interesting, and I'm not the only one. Keep bashing me, it only shows your reluctance to actually take part in the discussion. I'm not attacking Mormons, I'm just talking about them and everyone is taking offense. Sometimes when you step on toes, people holler. I didn't mean to step on any toes, though.

[Naraku]

UtahApocalypse, I really hope you're not serious about voting for Romney. Honestly, people who don't support a candidate for the positions of supporters are doing a disservice to democracy.

Mormonism does have connections to Freemasonry so it's inevitable that some will try to assert some broad Mormon conspiracy. However, Ron Paul has said no such thing and his policies would make any opinions he has about Mormonism irrelevant. In the end democracy is about tolerating all beliefs, even if you think they're loony, so a man's personal opinions should have no relevance if he supports democracy.

[torchbearer]

UtahApocalypse, I really hope you're not serious about voting for Romney. Honestly, people who don't support a candidate for the positions of supporters are doing a disservice to democracy.

Mormonism does have connections to Freemasonry so it's inevitable that some will try to assert some broad Mormon conspiracy. However, Ron Paul has said no such thing and his policies would make any opinions he has about Mormonism irrelevant. In the end democracy is about tolerating all beliefs, even if you think they're loony, so a man's personal opinions should have no relevance if he supports democracy.

Not democracy, a constitutional republic.

[ValidusCustodiae]

How is Mitt Romney possibly taking oaths of fealty to his church which might supersede all other oaths irrelevant?

Please explain.

[CrownThyGood]

find out what the book says i suppose . .

[courtney]

I'd say that the issue of Romney's religion is an extremely significant one to be sure. Perhaps it's the most significant issue surrounding the man and his bid for the Presidency of the United States.

Ya know, most Americans recoil in horror at the prospect of being taken to task over their religious beliefs. They tend to view such inquiries as "heretical" -- likening the entire exercise to that of spilling the secrets (truth) about Santa Claus to a 4-year old eagerly awaiting Santa's redemption for being "good" all year long.

Well, I've got news for these folks (the vast majority). A candidate's religion should be front and center. It should not be off limits at all. These folks' religion should be examined with a microscope no less. Religion by it's very nature requires one to serve their version of a God (Santa Claus) first, and the people second. And I find such a notion extremely unsettling to say the least.

On another note, wouldn't it have been nice to know, and before Bush was elected, that W felt so strongly about his faith in (Santa Claus) that he would even go so far as to take the nation to war as a result of regular conversations (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml) he ostensibly has with his (Santa Claus)?

This is no laughing matter, folks. It's deadly serious.

[Naraku]

Not democracy, a constitutional republic.

Honestly, they're the same thing. There are various definitions of democracy and our system fits one of those descriptions.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Courtney, you reminded me of a Thomas Paine quote with your post =)

"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun." ~Thomas Paine

[Spirit of '76]

Man, I was hoping for something good, but this is lame.

Now if we could get some real swiftboat action on McCain, we'd be golden.

[hawkeyenick]

I have been telling people this from the beginning.

I am a former mormon priest.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Honestly, they're the same thing. There are various definitions of democracy and our system fits one of those descriptions.

From webster.

Democracy: 1 a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority

Republic: 1 a (1): a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president (2): a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government b (1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

Not the same!

[ValidusCustodiae]

I have been telling people this from the beginning.

I am a former mormon priest.

Telling people what? PLEASE elaborate!

[courtney]

Courtney, you reminded me of a Thomas Paine quote with your post =)

"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the Sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the Sun." ~Thomas Paine

Ahhh, Thomas Paine. What an awesome guy he was. :)

But remember, the faithful cannot stand to confront the truth of their faith. And that is why Thomas Paine died alone, penniless, and widely despised in a Country he was instrumental in Founding, unfortunately.....

[Redcard]

Well, I've got news for these folks (the vast majority). A candidate's religion should be front and center. It should not be off limits at all. These folks' religion should be examined with a microscope no less. Religion by it's very nature requires one to serve their version of a God (Santa Claus) first, and the people second. And I find such a notion extremely unsettling to say the least.


Then why are you voting for Dr. Paul? No offense intended, but he says religion is most definitely NOT the business of government or politics.

[noztnac]

What happened to the Larry Flynt thing?

[OferNave]

Just a quick point, because I don't really want to fully engage in this flamefest.

It is possible to be a good person, and believe in your faith fully, while still being able to admit that the individuals in control of your faith are corrupt. Like being Catholic, but hating/distrusting the Pope. At the local level, religion can be what it appears to be. But at the top, the laws of power override any of the specific beliefs of any religion.

The leaders of all religions have more in common with each other than the members of their own respective religions. Always remember to keep separate in your mind a) your religion b) the *human beings* who happen to be in control of your church at the moment. The two are not the same, and you play yourself for a fool and give power to those who cannot be trusted with it and will use it for ill purposes when you make this mistake.

[courtney]

Then why are you voting for Dr. Paul? No offense intended, but he says religion is most definitely NOT the business of government or politics.

Can you point to an atheist alternative?

Such is the conundrum I face in most all elections that I participate in. Folks who speak truth to the Faithful are quickly shunned, chewed up, and spit out. Thus, this leaves me with the alternative of attempting to vote for the perceived lesser of evils, unfortunately.

Such is life in America....

[Redcard]

Can you point to an atheist alternative?

Such is the conundrum I face in most all elections that I participate in. Folks who speak truth to the Faithful are quickly shunned, chewed up, and spit out. Thus, this leaves me with the alternative of attempting to vote for the perceived lesser of evils, unfortunately.

Such is life in America....

Such is, indeed :) I know the feeling well :)

[ValidusCustodiae]

Ahhh, Thomas Paine. What an awesome guy he was. :)

But remember, the faithful cannot stand to confront the truth of their faith. And that is why Thomas Paine died alone, penniless, and widely despised in a Country he was instrumental in Founding, unfortunately.....

And he's still being quoted today =) FORTUNATELY! =)

[courtney]

Just a quick point, because I don't really want to fully engage in this flamefest.

It is possible to be a good person, and believe in your faith fully, while still being able to admit that the individuals in control of your faith are corrupt. Like being Catholic, but hating/distrusting the Pope. At the local level, religion can be what it appears to be. But at the top, the laws of power override any of the specific beliefs of any religion.

The leaders of all religions have more in common with each other than the members of their own respective religions. Always remember to keep separate in your mind a) your religion b) the *human beings* who happen to be in control of your church at the moment. The two are not the same, and you play yourself for a fool and give power to those who cannot be trusted with it and will use it for ill purposes when you make this mistake.

Just curious, as President, if your God told you to go to war, would you?

More broadly, would you follow your God's desires on most, if not all issues that come up within your Presidency? Or, would you instead shun God?

[hambone1982]

A Former TV Business Editor/Reporter and Decorated War Hero 'Swift
Boats' Presidential Hopeful Mitt Romney -- With Well-Documented Facts

WASHINGTON, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- In 2004, John Kerry faced
opposition from an unexpected quarter -- his fellow Swift Boat veterans
from Vietnam. In 2008, it's Mitt Romney's turn to be "Swift-Boated" -- but
this time, instead of unsubstantiated innuendo, Romney is "Swift Boated"
with a comprehensively-researched, solidly fact-based book -- Mitt, Set Our
People Free! Like Toto in Oz, this book tears away the curtain and reveals
the truth behind the Mormon Church and its beliefs about the U.S.
Presidency -- and what that will mean to "President" Mitt Romney.

This exciting new book -- Mitt, Set Our People Free! -- published by
Revelation Press, reveals just how Mitt Romney's sacred oath to the Church
of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, known as the Mormons or the LDS --
including a vow of obedience to the "Living Prophet," the President of the
LDS Church -- will impact his ability to govern as President of the United
States.

Jesus said that man cannot serve two masters -- but if Romney is
elected President, he will have to serve two conflicting oaths. American
Presidents swear an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution
of the United States. However, this Presidential Oath is in direct conflict
with Romney's sacred oath to his Mormon Church -- a blood oath which puts
Romney's life, fortune and obedience at the unrestricted service of his
Church. This obedience is defined by the Church's Living Prophet, the
President of the Mormon Church and -- as they believe -- the literal Voice
of God on earth.

According to author Mike Moody, "One of the LDS Church's basic tenets
is a prophecy from founder and First Prophet Joseph Smith that in the
latter days, the U.S. Constitution will 'hang by a thread as fine as silk
fiber' until a Mormon leader rides in on his White Horse to save the U.S.
and the Constitution -- then use his control of the United States to set up
a world-wide theocracy, one based on the clearly unorthodox beliefs of the
Church of Latter Day Saints."

From the daily paul http://www.dailypaul.com/node/22378

I thought Mormons believed the constitution to be divinely inspired??

[OferNave]

Just curious, as President, if your God told you to go to war, would you?

More broadly, would you follow your God's desires on most, if not all issues that come up within your Presidency? Or, would you instead shun God?

Huh? I don't have a god, I'm an aethiest. And if I was President, I'd obey the law.

[Talldude1412]

Can you point to an atheist alternative?

Such is the conundrum I face in most all elections that I participate in. Folks who speak truth to the Faithful are quickly shunned, chewed up, and spit out. Thus, this leaves me with the alternative of attempting to vote for the perceived lesser of evils, unfortunately.

Such is life in America....

lol, and so begins the anti-Christian discussion. You are fully entitled to believe whatever you so please, but there have been 52 presidents, all of whom were in some way or another Christians. We haven't been too utterly ruined by them, so what exactly is your grievance with them as POTUS? I have no interest in making this an Atheism v theism thread, nor anyone else for that matter, as we are both surely not about to change our minds about such a think following a conversation with someone over the internet, assuming we aren't that shallow.

[courtney]

Huh? I don't have a god, I'm an aethiest. And if I was President, I'd obey the law.

Ooops. You seemed to be speaking on behalf of the faithful as a one of them.
Perhaps I didn't read your post closely as I should have. Sorry for the confusion. :)

[courtney]

lol, and so begins the anti-Christian discussion. You are fully entitled to believe whatever you so please, but there have been 52 presidents, all of whom were in some way or another Christians. We haven't been too utterly ruined by them, so what exactly is your grievance with them as POTUS? I have no interest in making this an Atheism v theism thread, nor anyone else for that matter, as we are both surely not about to change our minds about such a think following a conversation with someone over the internet, assuming we aren't that shallow.

I've already stated why I think a POTUS's religion is important.

Not that I intend to make this into a atheists vs religionists thread either. However, if a person believes in something that has never been confirmed to exist, and yet, still devotes his/her entire life to the Faith that his beliefs are correct, then that's an important issue that needs to be explored, I should think.

Folks like Huckabee believe so intensely that he became a Preacher no less; someone who perpetuates the myth. Not only that, he's been campaigning on the notion that he knows "what's right, and what's wrong." Oh really? That is very significant!

For whence it is that he gets his ideas and philosophy of governing the masses from is an ancient and incomplete collection of writings, which were the fruits of an extinct, and primitive -- and superstitiously -- fueled society of thousands of years ago. These incomplete, and perhaps ages ago altered and molested texts, are now compiled into a book called "The Bible."

But then, that Bible is considered untouchable now? Oh no, that aint gonna fly with me! Aint nothin' off limits. And besides, if an individual wishes to govern our Country in large measure with how an extinct theocratic society did a few thousand years ago, that's not only important, it ought to be HUGE news.

[Fyretrohl]

To ValidusCustatae...You sir are missing the facts and spreading false information, just like Fox. I am a member in good standing of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints AND, in fact, a Temple worthy member. So far, I have not seen a single fact you have claimed that was correct. To whit:

1 - We do NOT swear allegiance to the church on the bible. The Bible is more sacred than to be used for such a purpose. Not even when I earned my temple recommend.

2 - I have never received a 'lambskin' apron. We do have our temple garments, etc, which we hold sacred. To do so is not to be secretive. It is to hold them sacred as many hold other things sacred. These temple garments either represent the convenants we make with our Heavenly Father, like Abraham of the Bible, or are representative of other aspects of our faith. But, there is no lambskin in there.

3 - Your attack on our faith without facts is dangerously close to what I would consider violations of the forum rules. If you have HONEST questions, feel free to ask. If all you seek to do is subvert the truth, like the other politicians running and news agencies are doing, then, feel free to save the time from typing a response.