New Gulf of Tonkin Predicted TWICE by Ron Paul JUST OCCURRED!

[SteveMartin]

Did you guys hear the report of the incident in the Gulf of Hormuz last night between "5 Iranian gunboats and 3 U.S. navy ships???" Supposedly the 5 gunboats acted in a "threatening manner" and came within 200 yards of one of our ships in international waters. A radio transmission from one of the Iranian boats supposedly said, "we are coming at you, and when we get there you will explode!" The navy reportedly almost took them out.

THIS IS THE GULF OF TONKIN, Part deux, JUST AS PREDICTED BY RON PAUL! The timing--one day before the NH Primary--is just so blatant!!

Thankfully, Dr. Paul warned of his fears of a "Gulf-of-Tonkin_type" incident twice already during this election cycle, and the neocons will NOT (hopefully) be able to benefit from their "new" scare tactic.

It cracks me up that these morons can't even make up new scenarios anymore!

[jrich4rpaul]

It's on CNN right now

[itshappening]

this is quite predictable before an election

[Fields]

I heard it, when it broke on CNN. Oh how I bet Cheney's office is a storm of bee's on the move.

[prlgrl]

Wag the dog.

[SteveMartin]

The plan would appear to be to put the entire nation into a war panic (or even a new war) on the eve of the major primaries and force the idiots of this nation to accept one of the neocon warhawks as President...probably McCain...

[JordanL]

This is dangerous dice they play with. If they REALLY try these tactics this election, we'll probably lose. But we're not going away... and if they KEEP using these tactics... well at some point that FORCES the more fringe people to mount a forceful reexamination of government, and depending on circumstance, that sort of thing turns into general revolt. :/

I mean... that's a multidecade timeline, but there is really only one eventuality if that road is the path we take. It's scary that anyone would be so drunk with power that they don't fear such reprisal.

[SteveMartin]

Excellent post, Jordan!

[colecrowe]

LOTS of stories popping up now: http://news.google.com/news?q=Strait+of+Hormuz

Seems germane:

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/2/28/181730.shtml
Iran Readies Plan to Close Strait of Hormuz

Kenneth R. Timmerman, NewsMax.com
Wednesday, March 1, 2006

Reprint Information
Book on Katie Couric Makes Waves
White House: We're Not Subject to FOIA
FBI Seeks 2 Mysterious Men on Ferry
Publisher: Conservatives Do Read As Much As Liberals
Romney Shrugs Off Mormon History Film

Iran's Revolutionary Guards are making preparations for a massive assault on U.S. naval forces and international shipping in the Persian Gulf, according to a former Iranian intelligence officer who defected to the West in 2001.

The plans, which include the use of bottom-tethered mines potentially capable of destroying U.S. aircraft carriers, were designed to counter a U.S. land invasion and to close the Strait of Hormuz, the defector said in a phone interview from his home in Europe.

They would also be triggered if the United States or Israel launched a pre-emptive strike on Iran to knock out nuclear and missile facilities.

"The plan is to stop trade," the source said.

Between 15 and 16.5 million barrels of oil transit the Strait of Hormuz each day, roughly 20 percent of the world's daily oil production, according to the U.S. government's Energy Information Administration.

Story Continues Below



The source provided NewsMax parts of a more than 30-page contingency plan, which bears the stamp of the Strategic Studies Center of the Iranian Navy, NDAJA. The document appears to have been drafted in September or October of 2005.

The NDAJA document was just one part of a larger strike plan to be coordinated by a single operational headquarters that would integrate Revolutionary Guards missile units, strike aircraft, surface and underwater naval vessels, Chinese-supplied C-801 and C-802 anti-shipping missiles, mines, coastal artillery, as well as chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

The overall plans are being coordinated by the intelligence office of the Ministry of Defense, known as HFADA.

Revolutionary Guards missile units have identified "more than 100 targets, including Saudi oil production and oil export centers," the defector said. "They have more than 45 to 50 Shahab-3 and Shahab-4 missiles ready for shooting" against those targets and against Israel, he added.

The defector, Hamid Reza Zakeri, warned the CIA in July 2001 that Iran was preparing a massive attack on America using Arab terrorists flying airplanes, which he said was planned for Sept. 11, 2001. The CIA dismissed his claims and called him a fabricator.

The source also identified a previously unknown nuclear weapons site last year to this writer, which was independently confirmed by three separate intelligence agencies.

NewsMax showed the defector's documents to two native Persian-speakers who each have more than 20 years of experience analyzing intelligence documents from the Islamic Republic regime. They believed the documents were authentic.

A U.S. military intelligence official, while unable to authenticate the documents without seeing them, recognized the Strategic Studies Center and noted that the individual whose name appears as the author of the plan, Abbas Motaj, was head of the Iranian navy until late 2005.

A former Revolutionary Guards officer, contacted by NewsMax in Europe, immediately recognized the Naval Strategic Studies institute from its Persian-language acronym, NDAJA. He provided independent information on recent deployments of Shahab-3 missiles that coincided with information contained in the NDAJA plan.

The Iranian contingency plan is summarized in an "Order of Battle" map, which schematically lays out Iran's military and strategic assets and how they will be used against U.S. military forces from the Strait of Hormuz up to Busheir.

The map identifies three major areas of operations, called "mass kill zones," where Iranian strategists believe they can decimate a U.S.-led invasion force before it actually enters the Persian Gulf.

The kill zones run from the low-lying coast just to the east of Bandar Abbas, Iran's main port that sits in the bottleneck of the Strait of Hormuz, to the ports of Jask and Shah Bahar on the Indian Ocean, beyond the Strait.

Behind the kill zones are strategic missile launchers labeled as "area of chemical operations," "area of biological warfare operations," and "area where nuclear operations start."

Iran's overall battle management will be handled through C4I and surveillance satellites. It is unclear in the documents shared with NewsMax whether this refers to commercial satellites or satellite intelligence obtained from allies, such as Russia or China. Iran has satellite cooperation programs with both nations.

The map is labeled "the current status of military forces in the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz, 1384." 1384 is the Iranian year that ends on March 20, 2006.

Iran plans to begin offensive operations by launching successive waves of explosives-packed boats against U.S. warships in the Gulf, piloted by "Ashura" or suicide bombers.

The first wave can draw on more than 1,000 small fast-attack boats operated by the Revolutionary Guards navy, equipped with rocket launchers, heavy machine-guns and possibly Sagger anti-tank missiles.

In recent years, the Iranians have used these small boats to practice "swarming" raids on commercial vessels and U.S. warships patrolling the Persian Gulf.

The White House listed two such attacks in the list of 10 foiled al-Qaida terrorist attacks it released on Feb. 10. The attacks were identified as a "plot by al-Qaida operatives to attack ships in the [Persian] Gulf" in early 2003, and a separate plot to "attack ships in the Strait of Hormuz."

A second wave of suicide attacks would be carried out by "suicide submarines" and semi-submersible boats, before Iran deploys its Russian-built Kilo-class submarines and Chinese-built Huodong missile boats to attack U.S. warships, the source said.

The 114-foot Chinese boats are equipped with advanced radar-guided C-802s, a sea-skimming cruise-missile with a 60-mile range against which many U.S. naval analysts believe there is no effective defense.

When Iran first tested the sea-launched C-802s a decade ago, Vice Admiral Scott Redd, then commander of U.S. naval forces in the Gulf, called them "a new dimension ... of the Iranian threat to shipping."

Admiral Redd was appointed to head the National Counterterrorism Center last year.

Iran's naval strategists believe the U.S. will attempt to land ground forces to the east of Bandar Abbas. Their plans call for extensive use of ground-launched tactical missiles, coastal artillery, as swell as strategic missiles aimed at Saudi Arabia and Israel tipped with chemical, biological and possibly nuclear warheads.

The Iranians also plan to lay huge minefields across the Persian Gulf inside the Strait of Hormuz, effectively trapping ships that manage to cross the Strait before they can enter the Gulf, where they can be destroyed by coastal artillery and land-based "Silkworm" missile batteries.

Today, Iran has sophisticated EM-53 bottom-tethered mines, which it purchased from China in the 1990s. The EM-53 presents a serious threat to major U.S. surface vessels, since its rocket-propelled charge is capable of hitting the hull of its target at speeds in excess of 70 miles per hour. Some analysts believe it can knock out a U.S. aircraft carrier.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff has been warning about Iran's growing naval buildup in the Persian Gulf for over a decade, and in a draft presidential finding submitted to President Clinton in late February 1995, concluded that Iran already had the capability to close the Strait of Hormuz.

"I think it would be problematic for any navy to face a combination of mines, small boats, anti-ship cruise missiles, torpedoes, coastal artillery, and Silkworms," said retired Navy Commander Joseph Tenaglia, CEO of Tactical Defense Concepts, a maritime security company. "This is a credible threat."

In Tenaglia's view, "the major problem will be the mines. Naval minefields are hard to locate and to sweep," and the United States has few minesweepers. "It's going to be like running the gauntlet getting through there," he said.

When Iran last mined the Gulf, in 1987-1988, several U.S. ships and reflagged Kuwaiti oil tankers were hit, even though the mines they used were similar to those used in the Battle of Gallipoli in 1915, Tenaglia said.

The biggest challenge facing Iran today would be to actually lay the mines without getting caught. "If they are successful in getting mines into the water, it's going to take us months to get them out," Tenaglia said.

[colecrowe]

more:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L27344177.htm
FACTBOX-The Strait of Hormuz, Iran and the risk to oil
27 Mar 2007 17:40:30 GMT
Source: Reuters
Alert Me | Printable view | Email this article | RSS XML [-] Text [+]

March 27 (Reuters) - Oil prices hit a 2007 high this week on tensions over Iran's nuclear plans and its capture of 15 British servicemen.

Analysts fear Iran could seek to impede trade through the Strait of Hormuz if it were threatened or attacked.

The strategic channel at the entrance to the Gulf is the world's most important waterway or choke point because of the huge volume of oil exported through it daily.

-- Oil flows through the Strait account for roughly two-fifths of all globally traded oil, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA).

-- Some 16-17 million barrels of oil are carried through the narrow channel on oil tankers every day, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA).

Some 2 million barrels of oil products, including fuel oil, are exported through the passage daily.

-- Ninety percent of oil exported from Gulf producers is carried on oil tankers through the Strait.

-- Iran, which sits adjacent to the strait, has in the past talked of impeding traffic through it if threatened.

-- The IEA in February noted Arab and Iranian press reports about political pressure in Iran for shipping to be blocked if U.N. sanctions are applied in connection with its nuclear programme.

-- U.S. Central Command's (CENTCOM) key mission in the Gulf is to ensure the free flow of oil and energy supplies.

-- Between 1984 and 1987, a "Tanker War" took place between Iran and Iraq, where each nation fired on each other's oil tankers bound for their respective ports. Foreign-flagged vessels were caught in the crossfire.

-- Shipping in the Gulf dropped by 25 percent because of the exchange, forcing the intervention of the United States to secure the shipping lanes.

-- Iran has admitted to deploying anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles on Abu Musa, an island strategically located near the Strait's shipping lanes.

-- The EIA predicts oil exports passing through the strait will double to between 30 million and 34 million barrels per day (bpd) by 2020.

-- Over 75 percent of Japan's oil passes through the Strait.

-- Merchant ships carrying grains, iron ore, sugar, perishables and containers full of finished goods also pass through the strategic sea corridor en route to Gulf countries and major ports like Dubai.

-- Heavy armour and military supplies for the U.S. armed forces in Iraq and other Gulf countries pass through the channel aboard U.S. Navy-owned, U.S.-flagged and foreign-flagged ships.

-- Geographic location: a narrow bend of water separating Oman and Iran connects biggest Gulf oil producers like Saudi Arabia with the Gulf of Oman and the Arabian Sea.

-- At its narrowest point the Strait is only 34 miles (55 km) across.

-- The Strait consists of 2-mile wide navigable channels for inbound and outbound tanker traffic as well as a 2-mile wide buffer zone.

Sources: International Energy Agency (IEA), U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD), GlobalSecurity.org, U.S. Navy's Military Sealift Command, Clarkson shipping consultancy.

[Falseflagop]

More BOOGA BOOGA !! They know RP can win NH tomorrow and are scared to death!

[querty]

http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg

[ST0PandL00K]

mother%@&#ers!!!!

[Birdlady]

Ahem...This is why people need to learn about false flag terror ops and how our government uses terror to get people in line at exactly the moment they need it. Who benefits from this?

This probably never even happened. It will come out in a few weeks that it was all fake, but it will be in the back of the newspaper with only a few wires picking it up.

[pacelli]

http://www.wickedsunshine.com/WagePeace/Election2004/Images/AwJeez,NotThisShitAgain!.jpg

No kidding! The neocons are getting to be too predictable. I'm sure there will soon be a news story saying that one of the ships dropped some yellowcake in the water.

[Falseflagop]

Bush in Isarel this week also, CHeney is teh VP remember. imho

[Robben]

Breaking News
Pentagon officials confirm Iranian vessels harassed U.S. ships in Strait of Hormuz 9:24am EST

[Robben]

markets are falling.

[pacelli]

Bush in Isarel this week also, CHeney is teh VP remember. imho

Adam Gadahn threatened Bush in the video released the other day.

Gadahn has some strange family connections:


Gadahn's paternal grandfather, Carl K Pearlman, was a prominent Jewish urologist [6] who was a member of the Anti-Defamation League and was active in charitable organizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn

[Shin505]

omg, I can't believe this is happening... at such a crucial point in our campaign. this is absolute bullshit.

[Birdlady]

omg, I can't believe this is happening... at such a crucial point in our campaign. this is absolute bullshit.

And that's precisely why it's happening! :(

[pacelli]

Didn't Dr. Paul say that the first thing he would do is pull back our Navy from the Iranian coast? Sounds like the current foreign policy of interventionism is going to get us some blowback pretty soon.

[Menthol Patch]

I agree. How would we like it if Iran, China, or Russia had warships only a few miles off the Texas coast?

[Menthol Patch]

Didn't Dr. Paul say that the first thing he would do is pull back our Navy from the Iranian coast? Sounds like the current foreign policy of interventionism is going to get us some blowback pretty soon.

We need to make the point that if we did not have military vessels there then this would not have happened.

[torchbearer]

i think this works in our favor.

all Ron has to do is ask the question:
why did they attack our ships?
Because our ships were right off their coast.
What would we do if china parked its navy off of our coast in a threatened manner? We'd send a lot more than 5 gunships against their entire navy.. that's for sure.

[webber53]

Bush in Isarel this week also, CHeney is teh VP remember. imho

I do not like this scenario! :(

[Birdlady]

I agree. How would we like it if Iran, China, or Russia had warships only a few miles off the Texas coast?

At this point we don't really know the whole story. Maybe we were in their territory and they got caught? They put out this fake story to cover their butts or something. Seriously I do not trust our own military at this point.

We will have to wait and see what comes out of all this.

@Torchbearer
Oh I agree with you. RP is in a great position. However, the problem is that the media will be spoon feeding fear for the next few days and we know how fear affects people in this country. We let crap like the patriot act pass!

[Moxxar]

Wag the dog.

Great movie!

[fj45lvr]

omg, I can't believe this is happening... at such a crucial point in our campaign. this is absolute bullshit.


I can't believe anyone here is surprised or shocked at what the "demagogues" will print to sway the public. We all ought to know that what Dr. Paul stands for is NOT ACCEPTABLE to the "elite" oligarchy that controls the press and our government now......they most certainly are concerned and will use ALL means available to "take him out".

I would be skeptical of the Iranians taking on the US navy and we already know all about "rigged" attacks in the middle east to try to entice the American Public to support war against Arabs: google "USS LIBERTY" and read all about how Israel and some high up in the U.S. tried to "stage" a EGYPTIAN attack killing our sevice men 40 years ago.

[traitorist]

this news holds no surprises for me.

[Robben]

Markets up again. They sure are nervous

[Ranger29860]

Seriously I do not trust our own military at this point.



I resent that i dont know a single soldier if something like that where to go down on purpose they would participate.

[smoke.stack]

omg, I can't believe this is happening... at such a crucial point in our campaign. this is absolute bullshit.

i always knew.. we will be at war by the time of the election..

[smoke.stack]

I resent that i dont know a single soldier if something like that where to go down on purpose they would participate.

you are assuming that the soldiers are "in the loop." i agree with you, but if all they see is some boats float by, and their superiors telling them it was the iranians, then that's what happened.

[Scott Wilson]

Stop jumping the gun with this 'Gulf of Tonkin' crap.

It is one news report and hardly anything is confirmed. One moment many of you say that you don't believe the mainstream media then the next you grab some report, pick what you like out of it, believe it without confirmation and then use and/or twist it to support your view.

True Alex Jones sensationalist style.

[BillyDkid]

Did you guys hear the report of the incident in the Gulf of Hormuz last night between "5 Iranian gunboats and 3 U.S. navy ships???" Supposedly the 5 gunboats acted in a "threatening manner" and came within 200 yards of one of our ships in international waters. A radio transmission from one of the Iranian boats supposedly said, "we are coming at you, and when we get there you will explode!" The navy reportedly almost took them out.

THIS IS THE GULF OF TONKIN, Part deux, JUST AS PREDICTED BY RON PAUL! The timing--one day before the NH Primary--is just so blatant!!

Thankfully, Dr. Paul warned of his fears of a "Gulf-of-Tonkin_type" incident twice already during this election cycle, and the neocons will NOT (hopefully) be able to benefit from their "new" scare tactic.

It cracks me up that these morons can't even make up new scenarios anymore!Does anybody seriously believe that the Iranians are stupid enough to provoke us in a serious way? "Yes, please come and demolish my country!!!" This is scarey stuff. How many need to die for the ambition of others?

[Robben]

I dont think this is a very serious thing. Probably some Rev guard hot shot commander who wants to show of. Its also the norm in Islamic countries to throw out these absurd insults at their enemies without any real intention of making them real: "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes," Its just showing off. He is now the man for his poetic display of absurd and half witted courage.

[Ranger29860]

i think guiliani ruined the neocon fear card people are getting sick of everyother word bieng 911 or islamic fundamentalist

[torchbearer]

This is scarey stuff. How many need to die for the ambition of others?

There is no limit on the neocons' american express.

[Ethek]

We need to make the point that if we did not have military vessels there then this would not have happened.

no one wants to hear this. Its more 'blame the victim speak' in the eyes of the media. They'll eat it up and twist our words until we look like fools to any rational person despite the facts.

We just need to be consistent in our message that Dr. Paul had expected this to be coming.

[Pharoah]

While it could be the onset of a provocateured incident, it could also be the natural result of having two navies butting up against each other in the same stretch of water.

[i2ambler]

Someone will surely bring up the point that Ron made about Iran having no navy or army or airforce (which to be honest was stupid for him to say).. Even I knew when he said it that Iran has a navy.. Sure, not much compared to OUR navy.. We know they have a navy because they are using OUR destoyers from ww2. Yes, ww2. They have an airforce.. and I know this because.. they are flying OUR PLANES. As far as the army - they are one of 3 middle eastern nations to actually build their OWN main battle tank.

So, they dont have a navy that will last 2 seconds in a sea battle.. they are using old destroyers from world war 2, while we are roaming the earth in nuclear powered submaries, floating cities called "air craft carriers" that carry about as many men as the entire iranian navy EACH.

[LinkClan]

Go set the record straight! Take out an add in your local paper today and promote the message to someone other than the quire!

[SteveMartin]

Scott,

It doesn't make any difference whether it really happened or not. The point is IT HAS BEEN REPORTED ON ALL THE NETWORKS, and for most meat heads in the mainstream, that is the same as if every detail was totally accurate.

[SteveMartin]

Well 23 guys in motor boats isn't even a navy "to speak of"...lol...

[i2ambler]

Yes, he should have said "no real navy to speak of." I think that's what he meant....not literally no navy.

Unfortunately, in this position the things he says and the way he says it are very important. In this day and age of instant press politicians and especially someone running for president has to be very careful about how things come out of their mouths. I love Dr. Paul's enthusiasm in the way he speaks - but he needs to slow it down a bit and concentrate on how the words sound to the listener.

[i2ambler]

Well 23 guys in motor boats isn't even a navy "to speak of"...lol...

lol. .not quite accurate.. but close.. at least they arent rowboats with bows and arrows.

[Paul10]

....

[BeFranklin]

They called the boats on TV swift boats. I think the local yacht clubs in America could field as good.

[Dieseler]

lol. .not quite accurate.. but close.. at least they arent rowboats with bows and arrows.

May as well be.

Iran would have to be Suicidal as a Nation to Muck with the U.S. like this.
Not like they don't know what the outcome would be in short order.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

This is a serious OH SHIT :eek: moment for the rest of the World!

[kimosabi]

Boogeyman Alert, Run for the hills, argghhhh....

[Dieseler]

Time to start watching the mail box for those draft cards boys!

[StrikerV]

Oh Noes Iranian Boaties

[PatriotOne]

False Flag Ops are why the Dems walk the fine line of being somewhat hawkish. They have preempted this kind of Rovian tactic by not taking anything off the table as they knew they would use it. The Hill knows 9/11 was an inside job and they also know they have no qualms about doing it again.

[newbitech]

Did you guys hear the report of the incident in the Gulf of Hormuz last night between "5 Iranian gunboats and 3 U.S. navy ships???" Supposedly the 5 gunboats acted in a "threatening manner" and came within 200 yards of one of our ships in international waters. A radio transmission from one of the Iranian boats supposedly said, "we are coming at you, and when we get there you will explode!" The navy reportedly almost took them out.

THIS IS THE GULF OF TONKIN, Part deux, JUST AS PREDICTED BY RON PAUL! The timing--one day before the NH Primary--is just so blatant!!

Thankfully, Dr. Paul warned of his fears of a "Gulf-of-Tonkin_type" incident twice already during this election cycle, and the neocons will NOT (hopefully) be able to benefit from their "new" scare tactic.

It cracks me up that these morons can't even make up new scenarios anymore!

were they throwing snowballs and chanting USA Sux?

[breakranks]

Did you guys hear the report of the incident in the Gulf of Hormuz last night between "5 Iranian gunboats and 3 U.S. navy ships???" Supposedly the 5 gunboats acted in a "threatening manner" and came within 200 yards of one of our ships in international waters. A radio transmission from one of the Iranian boats supposedly said, "we are coming at you, and when we get there you will explode!" The navy reportedly almost took them out.

THIS IS THE GULF OF TONKIN, Part deux, JUST AS PREDICTED BY RON PAUL! The timing--one day before the NH Primary--is just so blatant!!

Thankfully, Dr. Paul warned of his fears of a "Gulf-of-Tonkin_type" incident twice already during this election cycle, and the neocons will NOT (hopefully) be able to benefit from their "new" scare tactic.

It cracks me up that these morons can't even make up new scenarios anymore!
This is the second time in two days that this poster has posted something
provocative. Both posts could be interpreted as attempts to make the
grassroots extreme and out-of-step.

Yesterday, it was this post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=79172) called "Were RP supporters arrested right behind the 5 neocons, live on camera?"

Today, its a post which calls-out RP as some kinda kook conspiracy theorist who
predicts false flag operations. Is there a link or anything to back up this story? Further, what relevance does this have to "grassroots central?"

Finally, I have also noticed that this is the poster who initiated the Open Letter to the Campaign (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=75945) airing a wide range and long list of grievances.

When I see all of this activity eminating from the same individual, I have to
wonder what this person's purpose is here. From the posts alone, and while I
could be wrong, I would conclude that they are here to pretend to support, while
quietly disrupting through suspect stories and divisive efforts between the
campaign and its grassroots support.

Again, while I maybe wrong about the intent here, I urge everyone to stay
vigilant and to look for motive when evaluating individuals who claim to be
supporters of the campaign.

[Talldude1412]

Hmm, very ballsy thing for the Iranians to do. I also would like to point out that Iranian state media isn't covering this. The Iranian people have absolutely no idea what kind of mess their gov't is getting them into, if they did they might overthrow them tomorrow (please do).

I'm not going to call conspiracy on this one, its reminiscent of the British sailors fiasco last year. And I wouldn't put it past the Rev Guard to do something this provocative. The Iranian people need to wake up and see the situation they are being put in.

As much as many of you would like to attribute this to the US, the Iranian gov't is easily no better or worse, and provocation isn't beyond them. I have been saying for the past several months that I fear the Iranian gov't doing something stupid to provoke a war as much as our own.

[newbitech]

This is the second time in two days that this poster has posted something
provocative. Both posts could be interpreted as attempts to make the
grassroots extreme and out-of-step.

Yesterday, it was this post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=79172) called "Were RP supporters arrested right behind the 5 neocons, live on camera?"

Today, its a post which calls-out RP as some kinda kook conspiracy theorist who
predicts false flag operations. Is there a link or anything to back up this story? Further, what relevance does this have to "grassroots central?"

Finally, I have also noticed that this is the poster who initiated the Open Letter to the Campaign (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=75945) airing a wide range and long list of grievances.

When I see all of this activity eminating from the same individual, I have to
wonder what this person's purpose is here. From the posts alone, and while I
could be wrong, I would conclude that they are here to pretend to support, while
quietly disrupting through suspect stories and divisive efforts between the
campaign and its grassroots support.

Again, while I maybe wrong about the intent here, I urge everyone to stay
vigilant and to look for motive when evaluating individuals who claim to be
supporters of the campaign.

coming from the poster with the moniker breakranks hmmm.....

[Ninja Homer]

Iranian gunboat:
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9856/gunboatwn4.jpg

US Navy warships:
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/516/warshiphw2.jpg

Any questions?

[Proemio]

Hmm, very ballsy thing for the Iranians to do. I also would like to point out that Iranian state media isn't covering this. ...

Maybe because it never happened?

Either way, it won't help the death-cult one bit. What can they do? Scream "bomb,bomb,bomb" even louder?
If anything, Ron Paul will sound even better to the majority who is fed up with this costly crap, whether this actually happened or not.

[BigMatt419]

You have got to be kidding me, if war happens Ron is done for sure.

[RevolutionSD]

Great movie!

Actually it was a very BAD movie, but interesting idea for a plot.

[Shin505]

I don't think anything will likely come of this. After reading the update they were passing each other on a narrow straight which happens often and there was no actual attack. Though the comment made on radio and dropping the white boxes in water makes it strange.

[emty hand]

The USS Cole was hit with a rubber raft.

[DontFret]

I dont think this is a very serious thing. Probably some Rev guard hot shot commander who wants to show of. Its also the norm in Islamic countries to throw out these absurd insults at their enemies without any real intention of making them real: "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes," Its just showing off. He is now the man for his poetic display of absurd and half witted courage.


I disagree. This is a VERY serious thing, both in timing and predictability. The establishment is like a cornered animal right now, and the danger of Ron Paul's message is closing in on them.

If he has a respectable (or worse, a healthy) showing in NH tomorrow then brace yourselves. I sincerely believe and expect that events will accelerate rapidly. I am a realist and not a conspiracy theorist, but what we are witnessing now alongside the very real establishment goal of globalization at all costs is undeniable.

They are already taking big risks (like the FoxNews snub/subversion of democracy) to squelch his message from reaching the sheeple and will react violently if penetration turns out to be at a critical threshold.

Everything will remain stable if Paul does poorly or below some establishment determined threshold of safety [for them]. If he does well, though, *something* requiring a national emergency *will* occur. Perhaps health-related, perhaps Iran-related, perhaps other domestic or foreign *emergency*.

They have too much to risk to pull any punches. Too many of them have a legacy of bad behavior that can't be allowed brought to the people's attention. Hold onto your hats. This is historic right now...

[DjLoTi]

Thank god I don't watch TV. I want to pretend like none of this is happening.

[jake]

I tend to agree DontFret. I think if we see Paul bring in >15% of the vote in NH they will be in full blown panic mode.

[SteveMartin]

Breakranks,

I will put my OBVIOUS 100% RECORD OF DEVOTION to the Ron Paul cause up against yours, ANY DAY.

Steve Martin
Meetup Cooridnator #17
Amity, Maine

[amonasro]

No one is going to use this one incident as justification for war. No way. The American people are dense sometimes, but not that dense... I hope :(

[Shink]

http://whatreallyhappened.com/lieofthecentury.html

[rollingpig]

O GOD,no more wars please...

[paulitics]

This is not all about Dr. Paul. Their crimes are being exposed. There is a good chance that they sold nuclear secrets to our "enemies", including Pakistan, Iran, and AL Quada. All of this could tie into what is going on in Pakistan with the assasination of Bhutto, the propping up of Musharriff, and the reluctance to really go after Al Qauda. This story is being reported by one online British Press. It should be the biggest news story of the century.

This is a really scary time for this country. The movement on impeachment is starting to have legs. The media is doing their damnest to keep the lid on. We should all feel betrayed. Fox and ABC are also facing backlash from the public for trying to control the outcome of elections. They have little time.

The tyrants always stir up trouble, when the plebians question them. They have to start WW3 now so they don't end up in prison for war crimes and treason. This is getting serious, and this crap about conspiracy theory this and that is moronic.

[disciple]

This is the second time in two days that this poster has posted something
provocative. Both posts could be interpreted as attempts to make the
grassroots extreme and out-of-step.

Yesterday, it was this post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=79172) called "Were RP supporters arrested right behind the 5 neocons, live on camera?"

Today, its a post which calls-out RP as some kinda kook conspiracy theorist who
predicts false flag operations. Is there a link or anything to back up this story? Further, what relevance does this have to "grassroots central?"

Finally, I have also noticed that this is the poster who initiated the Open Letter to the Campaign (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=75945) airing a wide range and long list of grievances.

When I see all of this activity eminating from the same individual, I have to
wonder what this person's purpose is here. From the posts alone, and while I
could be wrong, I would conclude that they are here to pretend to support, while
quietly disrupting through suspect stories and divisive efforts between the
campaign and its grassroots support.

Again, while I maybe wrong about the intent here, I urge everyone to stay
vigilant and to look for motive when evaluating individuals who claim to be
supporters of the campaign.


Steve Martin is for real, he is one of us. He volunteered for the campaign from day one. And I know for certain that he is a patriot.

[disciple]

This is not all about Dr. Paul. Their crimes are being exposed. There is a good chance that they sold nuclear secrets to our "enemies", including Pakistan, Iran, and AL Quada. All of this could tie into what is going on in Pakistan with the assasination of Bhutto, the propping up of Musharriff, and the reluctance to really go after Al Qauda. This story is being reported by one online British Press. It should be the biggest news story of the century.

This is a really scary time for this country. The movement on impeachment is starting to have legs. The media is doing their damnest to keep the lid on. We should all feel betrayed. Fox and ABC are also facing backlash from the public for trying to control the outcome of elections. They have little time.

The tyrants always stir up trouble, when the plebians question them. They have to start WW3 now so they don't end up in prison for war crimes and treason. This is getting serious, and this crap about conspiracy theory this and that is moronic.

QFT; and for those who cannot grasp that, they need to wake up now.

[SteveMartin]

Thank you, disciple!

[Birdlady]

I resent that i dont know a single soldier if something like that where to go down on purpose they would participate.

Hmm apparently you've never seen this clip.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-368034430006732400

[disciple]

O GOD,no more wars please...

What's bound to happen is bound to happen. We cannot control the events because we are not in control. My consolation lies in the fact we are on the right team led by a true leader. Have faith; peace, truth, and justice will emerge triumphant in the end.

[disciple]

Thank you, disciple!

You're welcome Steve.

Since I've joined the Revolution, I haven't been at Freedomscrowsnest much.

[SteveMartin]

You're welcome Steve.

Since I've joined the Revolution, I haven't been at Freedomscrowsnest much.

LOL...neither have I, my friend! Didn't remember that's where I should have known you from even!

[disciple]

My assessment is that those skirmiches are not out of the ordinary and do happen often, if we were to believe the Iranian report. The United States likes to flex its muscles in the Gulf and the Revolutionary guards are hard-headed fanatics. What I question is the timing of the story on the eve of Bush's visit to Israel and right ahead of a critical primary election.

[breakranks]

Steve Martin is for real, he is one of us. He volunteered for the campaign from day one. And I know for certain that he is a patriot.
Steve's meetup bio (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/17/members/4148284/?gj=sj3) says he writes for Barnes Review (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_Review), which is a Holocaust denier magazine founded by Willis Carto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto).

When you say he is "one of us," did you want to imply that you are also a Holocaust denier and part of the Carto network of bigotry?

[disciple]

LOL...neither have I, my friend! Didn't remember that's where I should have known you from even!

I kind of keep a low profile, ( to stay under the radar) LOL

Glad to see you active though; we are running out of time.

[rpfan2008]

Or maybe it was IRAN's way of supporting Ron Paul...LOL

I bet they too want someone like RP as the US president...for peace

[disciple]

Steve's meetup bio (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/17/members/4148284/?gj=sj3) says he writes for Barnes Review (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_Review), which is a Holocaust denier magazine founded by Willis Carto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto).

When you say he is "one of us," did you want to imply that you are also a Holocaust denier and part of the Carto network of bigotry?


Every Ron Paul supporter is one of us, whether he is right , left, or whetever.

And whether one is a Holocaust denier (which I am not) should not be a litmus test. Every one has a right to his opinion, no matter how extreme it seems to others.

[yongrel]

Steve's meetup bio (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/17/members/4148284/?gj=sj3) says he writes for Barnes Review (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_Review), which is a Holocaust denier magazine founded by Willis Carto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto).

When you say he is "one of us," did you want to imply that you are also a Holocaust denier and part of the Carto network of bigotry?

Who the hell are you to be divisive on this board? Who the hell are you to make accusations like that?

28 posts, and I don't trust you.

[james1844]

We could probably beat the Iranians, but at what cost?

The main issue with the Iranian navy is the anti-ship missles they have. Supposedly, they've bought some high quality stuff from the russians - specifically sunburn missles. Supposedly, some of these anti-ship missles can go at mach 2 or greater, thats like 1400 miles an hour. In a geographically constrained area like the gulf, its possible the Iranians could overload the defenses of some of our ships by launching a ton of these missles at a single target.

Thus, the prospect of loosing a carrier or significant warship in the gulf does bother me. Plus, Iran knows that Bush/Cheny and crew and gunning for them, so if they're all at all competent, they've probably been wargaming and getting ready for a number of likely scenarios.

[EvilNight]

The US Navy is insane if they provoke something here. They know damn well that a foot soldier 10 miles away with an inexpensive, shoulder-launch rocket can sink a carrier with an inexpensive supersonic missile and there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

If the US Navy provokes a real fight, those outdated battleships will be coral reefs before morning. And we'll be in WWIII.

[rpfan2008]

Steve's meetup bio (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/17/members/4148284/?gj=sj3) says he writes for Barnes Review (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_Review), which is a Holocaust denier magazine founded by Willis Carto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto).

When you say he is "one of us," did you want to imply that you are also a Holocaust denier and part of the Carto network of bigotry?

Dude we have an Admin and a report post button, how about using them if you feel something is wrong. I guess that will be a more peaceful and logical way of dealing with things and yes ,with privacy.

[tsetsefly]

oh boy, the neocons really are scared after all...

[Shink]

Who the hell are you to be divisive on this board? Who the hell are you to make accusations like that?

28 posts, and I don't trust you.

The guy OBVIOUSLY wants us to "break ranks" as he aptly named himself. Who the fuck would come in with a name like that? That'd be like naming yourself, "retreat" or something.

[Shink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-avljxERUtU

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/130707greatdanger.htm

There are some links to Ron addressing this issue. First one is a link to Ron being interviewed.

[disciple]

The guy OBVIOUSLY wants us to "break ranks" as he aptly named himself. Who the fuck would come in with a name like that? That'd be like naming yourself, "retreat" or something.

We have all kind of Ron Paul supporters on these boards, so I would not want to jump to conclusions so fast. But we need to keep an eye for saboteurs no doubt, but only move if there is actually a clear proof.

[Brian Bailey]

YouTube and transcript of Ron Paul on the floor of the House of Representatives predicting this incident

http://digg.com/politics/Ron_Paul_Predicted_Incident_Leading_To_Iran_War

[Talldude1412]

Maybe because it never happened?

Either way, it won't help the death-cult one bit. What can they do? Scream "bomb,bomb,bomb" even louder?
If anything, Ron Paul will sound even better to the majority who is fed up with this costly crap, whether this actually happened or not.

I would be willing to wager the world media is more trustworthy than the Iranian state media. Just maybe.

But in any case, its certainly no declaration of war. Just another provocative military strength muscle flexing. I don't know what the Rev Guard is smoking if they think their gunboats could do any real damage to a Naval frigate, even if they were placing mines or firing missiles. It's more likely they were trying to gauge what the Naval reaction procedure is.

Another poster brought up that its timing is questionable, but its hard to justify that suspicion without proof of previous altercations that went unreported.

[N13]

Looks like America is getting a dose of: Problem----Reaction-----Solution

[SteveMartin]

Steve's meetup bio (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/17/members/4148284/?gj=sj3) says he writes for Barnes Review (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnes_Review), which is a Holocaust denier magazine founded by Willis Carto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto).

When you say he is "one of us," did you want to imply that you are also a Holocaust denier and part of the Carto network of bigotry?

It does NOT say that I am a writer for TBR, it says I "have been." PAST TENSE.

Those jerks in Hawaii who were trying to brand all of us as White Supremacists and Holocaust deniers also made the same charges, and they were publicly refuted. Could they be back so soon?

For the record, I quit that job in 2002 (6 years ago now) SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE of their over-emphasis on the Jewish element in the global conspiracy. My best research tells me VERY CLEARLY that the Jewish holocaust of 1935-1945 was indeed the third worst in recorded history, behind the Chinese holocaust of Mao Tse-Tung, and the Russian holocaust of Joseph Stalin, and just ahead of the Pol Pot holocaust in Cambodia.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

you are assuming that the soldiers are "in the loop." i agree with you, but if all they see is some boats float by, and their superiors telling them it was the iranians, then that's what happened.

Right, and anybody can make a goofy radio transmission to go along with it. You don't even really need any soldiers in on this.

[breakranks]

It does NOT say that I am a writer for TBR, it says I "have been." PAST TENSE.

Those jerks in Hawaii who were trying to brand all of us as White Supremacists and Holocaust deniers also made the same charges, and they were publicly refuted. Could they be back so soon?

For the record, I quit that job in 2002 (6 years ago now) SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE of their over-emphasis on the Jewish element in the global conspiracy. My best research tells me VERY CLEARLY that the Jewish holocaust of 1935-1945 was indeed the third worst in recorded history, behind the Chinese holocaust of Mao Tse-Tung, and the Russian holocaust of Joseph Stalin, and just ahead of the Pol Pot holocaust in Cambodia.
Thank you for the clarification.

[Sandy]

It does NOT say that I am a writer for TBR, it says I "have been." PAST TENSE.

Those jerks in Hawaii who were trying to brand all of us as White Supremacists and Holocaust deniers also made the same charges, and they were publicly refuted. Could they be back so soon?

For the record, I quit that job in 2002 (6 years ago now) SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE of their over-emphasis on the Jewish element in the global conspiracy. My best research tells me VERY CLEARLY that the Jewish holocaust of 1935-1945 was indeed the third worst in recorded history, behind the Chinese holocaust of Mao Tse-Tung, and the Russian holocaust of Joseph Stalin, and just ahead of the Pol Pot holocaust in Cambodia.

Thanks for putting that poster in his place. Thanks also for mentioning the other holocausts that have taken place. Let's not forget that all races have been persecuted and slaughtered, and the 2 largest holocausts were against Orientals and Caucasians. There is both a Jewish element and Caucasian element of the NWO....of course there are people of other races involved that are members of the CFR for example but they are not the policy makers.

[Pharoah]

I'm a holocaust denier - I deny that holocaust denial has anything to do with the majority of threads in which it's ruthlessly used to browbeat opponents. Case in point - this alleged incident between an Iranian motor boat and the U.S. Navy. WTF has that got to do with "holocaust denial"? First one to play the "Nazi" card loses - that's Internet 101.
The Israel lobby needs to STFU.

[Antonius Stone]

i havent even read through that whole article yet but just after seeing this:


Revolutionary Guards missile units have identified "more than 100 targets, including Saudi oil production and oil export centers," the defector said. "They have more than 45 to 50 Shahab-3 and Shahab-4 missiles ready for shooting" against those targets and against Israel, he added.

that is INSANE! Never mind the US for a moment, but if Iran were already facing battle with Israel why would they want to further things by getting the Saudis involved? the Saudis and the Israelis have always been the chief adversaries of the Iranians and attacking the Saudis would only unite them, which would spell certain doom for them even if the US were to just sit back and relax

[OptionsTrader]

I like how CNN was airring clips of warships FIRING as they introed another segment just now about the story. Even though no shots were fired today.

Reminds me of the flying eagles morphing into stealth bombers the days leading up to the Iraq invasion.

I like CNN more than most news outlets, and really like Cafferty, but as a network they too are a bit pro-war sensational still...

[Antonius Stone]

I dont even see what all the focus on the persian gulf is about.

If we really wanted to kick the shit out of the Iranians, what would stop a US/Israeli (possibly Saudi?) coalition army from just marching across the Iran/Iraq border? Its all neo-gulf of tonkin bullshit

[hasan]

nothings going to happen. this is all sensationalism.

[yongrel]

nothings going to happen. this is all sensationalism.

i hope you're right

[Mesogen]

i havent even read through that whole article yet but just after seeing this:



that is INSANE! Never mind the US for a moment, but if Iran were already facing battle with Israel why would they want to further things by getting the Saudis involved? the Saudis and the Israelis have always been the chief adversaries of the Iranians and attacking the Saudis would only unite them, which would spell certain doom for them even if the US were to just sit back and relax

Saudi Arabia allied with Israel?

Eh. No.

Well, I dunno, stranger things have happened....

[louisiana4liberty]

I would be pissed if China or Russia were off our coast everyday. Remember the Golden Rule? Why do they insist in getting stung? I would venture to say that our civilians would start some shit with another nation's Navy if they were sitting off our coast.

[Mesogen]

I would be pissed if China or Russia were off our coast everyday. Remember the Golden Rule? Why do they insist in getting stung? I would venture to say that our civilians would start some shit with another nation's Navy if they were sitting off our coast.

Appeaser!!

;)