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VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:12 PM
After Iowa jolted me to the reality that Ron Paul may not win I decided to take a good look at why he's not polling higher and getting more respect. Tonight's debate was very telling.

First of all, RP needs to be more assertive. All the other candidates were fighting for airtime and getting their points across. This makes them look like strong leaders. RP was getting cut-off from the others and conceding to them. He wasn't being forceful enough to be heard. I know that most of you will say it's because he's too polite blah blah blah, but if you want to get the message across you have to speak up! When you let others have the last word every time it weakens your position.

When he did have time to speak, his message wasn't clear or simple. I have studied economics and monetary policy and trust me the average person hates that stuff. Even when they hear it they tune it out like most of my classmates who were forced to take macroeconomics. He needs to simplify the message and hit home points that will stick in people's minds. Also, his messages were too short, he had plenty of time to talk but he would only talk for 30 seconds. It was kind of akward because the moderator was expecting more but RP was done.

Next, he stumbled a lot of his sentences. It was hard to listen to him because he made too many mistakes (maybe he wasn't feeling well). Maybe he needs a speech coach to help me get rid of the fillers (ahhhh's, ummmm's, etc.). Also his posture needs to improve and he needs to stop fiddling with the pen. COMMUNICATION IS 80% BODY LANGUAGE.

Finally I can't recall any messages of hope from him tonight!! It's great he's giving analysis on why things are happening (i.e. foreign policy), but where are the solutions? If I remember the final question was about gas prices or something, and he's talking about how gas has stayed in terms of gold, and it's the dollar that's losing value, that's all well and good, but what are you going to do about it? He didn't mention anything about a solution or a message of hope.

So to sum it up, RP needs to be more assertive, better posture, appear more confident, and not screw up his words so much. I know a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm giving an analysis of what I saw tonight. The official campaign needs to look at this and fix it, this isn't some backwater election, it's a national one and they need professionalism.


So who "won"?
Best performance - 9iu11iani - as much as I hate this guy, he's very articulate and they way he laid out his message (tone/content) I can see a lot of sheeple being convinced.

Worst Performance - Thompson - honestly this guy needs to go to a retirement home and sleep the rest of life away. He just comes off as lazy and apathetic.

Most Entertaining - McCain - He got Romney with quite a few zingers.

We need to be real and being critical will only help us improve and increase our chances.

The original title for this thread was : A Real analysis of how RP did.. not blind fanboyism
The mods changed it on me. by fanboyism I meant group think where we don't analyze the situation and blindly praise Ron Paul.

Registered
01-05-2008, 10:13 PM
troll

Azprint
01-05-2008, 10:14 PM
troll

+1

0zzy
01-05-2008, 10:14 PM
Do you not remember the Obama question?

Dorfsmith
01-05-2008, 10:14 PM
Rudy best :D I smell a troll.

Ron2Win
01-05-2008, 10:14 PM
HAHAHAHHA, Julie Anne won?

noztnac
01-05-2008, 10:14 PM
What age group uses the term "fanboy"? I hear it a lot. I guess I'm older. The term I use to describe people who use the word "fanboy" is "gay". There is clearly a generation gap.

MozoVote
01-05-2008, 10:15 PM
I don't like to admit it, but Giuliani was engaged and alert. The complete opposite of Thompson. He may have persuaded *some* viewers.

Agree totally on Thompson. He comes across as "Why am I still doing this?". He's just going through the motions... trying to remember why he ever agreed to run...

Liberty Star
01-05-2008, 10:15 PM
He did great, what are you talking about?

He was convincing, succinct and let others with shaky records tear each other apart.

Edit:

Courtesy of researchris:


Here are ALL of Ron Paul's replies at the ABC/N.H. Republican debate. Due to great conversation between Ron Paul and others, this video is split into 2 parts....

Pt 1 ALL of RON PAUL's replies @ ABC/N.H. debate on 1-05-08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ7CRYsoB6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ7CRYsoB6E)

Pt 2 ALL of RON PAUL's replies @ ABC/N.H. debate on 1-05-08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7paYyU0WrE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7paYyU0WrE)


I had missed first part completely.

Ron Paul was superb, a wise man surrounded between couple of idiots on Foreign Policy issue.

Giulaini actually knows better but is pandering to Israel lobby. Romney just can't even say the terms right he is citing and was coached by his briefers, he is very ignorant on this issue. God save America from these two idiots, they will be no better than Bush/Cheney and team neocon of Perle/Wolfowitz/Bolton types they had surrounded themselves with who pushed America into preemptive blunder of Iraq.

wowabunga
01-05-2008, 10:16 PM
Am I voting for someone who can talk a mile a minute... or am I supporting someone who gives me the truth. I vote for the truth over personality flashiness.

Azprint
01-05-2008, 10:16 PM
What age group uses the term "fanboy"? I hear it a lot. I guess I'm older. The term I use to describe people who use the word "fanboy" is "gay". There is clearly a generation gap.

Then you are in my age group 19-25, I've never use fanboy and heard it just a couple of times.

Richandler
01-05-2008, 10:16 PM
Rudy wouln't shut up. I dislike it when I moderator sits there and just lets things get totally off topic or doesn't acknoledge that a candidate responses by talking about something else.

Ron Paul Fan
01-05-2008, 10:16 PM
The neo-cons tried to take down Ron Paul tonight and it's no surprise that they would do the same on this forum. I agree, this guy is a troll.

Dorfsmith
01-05-2008, 10:16 PM
Then you are in my age group 19-25, I've never use fanboy and heard it just a couple of times.

I'm 31 and I hardly ever see that term.

nosebruise
01-05-2008, 10:17 PM
relax. ron is doing fine.

sometimes he needs to be a bit more assertive so he gets equal time to give his position. but he was doing fairly good the second half.
its the message that is above all importance. thats the big thing we have to worry about. getting the message across.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 10:17 PM
You guys make me laugh. I don't care if the guy has 1 post or 1000 posts, he gave an educated opinion. Respect his opinion and not write him off as a troll? I personally agree with many of the things he is saying anyways.

Mortikhi
01-05-2008, 10:17 PM
What age group uses the term "fanboy"? I hear it a lot. I guess I'm older. The term I use to describe people who use the word "fanboy" is "gay". There is clearly a generation gap.

gamer term. could be 15 up. usually typed fanboi

I do think Ron needs to be more assertive.

I think Ron won the debate because he did well, but also because the other candidates tore each other apart.

Drknows
01-05-2008, 10:18 PM
Gtfo

Guitarzan
01-05-2008, 10:18 PM
yeah...even if he was that bad, what are your options?



lol you stinking troll, only Ron Paul gets my vote. Your attempt is futile.

homah
01-05-2008, 10:18 PM
Nice post.

Gotta love those who call others trolls for posting constructive criticism.

blakjak
01-05-2008, 10:19 PM
You guys make me laugh. I don't care if the guy has 1 post or 1000 posts, he gave an educated opinion. Respect his opinion and not write him off as a troll? I personally agree with many of the things he is saying anyways.

me too

The Only Woj
01-05-2008, 10:20 PM
I fucking HATE when someone calls someone a troll because they have a dissenting opinion.

how about argue against it, but this "troll" bullshit is ridiculous. either defeat it with logic or shut the hell up.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:20 PM
Wow you guys are winners... attacking me with one word response... "Troll". Instead of having an educated debate and criticism you dumb it down to one word. Fine be blind. Watch tomorrow when the media is talking about how well Giulliani did. You can rate me down and call me names but unless you WAKE UP and see that changes are needed by the campaign and Ron Paul we are going to mired in the fringe 10%!

And I thought the average population was blind, I guess RP fanboys don't want to think critically either.

Proton
01-05-2008, 10:21 PM
Is this the confident assertive Ron Paul you want to see:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

AisA1787
01-05-2008, 10:22 PM
I agree with most of what the OP said. However, Ron Paul was the only Republican who showed maturity and avoided bickering and pressing rudely for more time. I would have liked to see him be more assertive, but I'm glad he erred on the side of being humble rather than arrogant and childish like the other candidates.

Mark Rushmore
01-05-2008, 10:23 PM
Gotta love those who call others trolls for posting constructive criticism.

Don't be such a troll fanboy.




[/sarcasm] if needed.

arbnranger
01-05-2008, 10:24 PM
VishIx,

I agree almost 100%

As Ron Paul supporters, we know the issues, we know where he stands. Others don't.
To the average sheeple he doesn't make much sense at all.

I wish more supporters wouldn't take a little criticism so personally. While watching the debate I try to put myself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know any of them ...and then watch.

Vish makes some valid points that others need to recognize. Quit looking at everything through a "loyalty scope" and take some constructive criticism.

Do other really think that Ron Paul stepped up and won that debate? Seriously?
Don't kid yourself.

I don't think he did bad or lost voters.
I really don't think he earned any either.

Just my oppinion


And I think Douche thompson did decent in the debate because Johnny American thought that he made some funnies.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:25 PM
Is this the confident assertive Ron Paul you want to see:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo


Yes I saw that clip months ago, he really shot that guy down and came out on top. I think he was a bit too extreme in that clip for national tv, but a bit toned down and I guarantee that his poll numbers would have shot up! He needs a Huckabee moment (like when Huckabee said that Jesus would never run for office, I knew at that point his numbers were gonna skyrocket).

I am guessing that RP wasn't feeling well or was tired tonight so he didn't have as much energy.

mconder
01-05-2008, 10:25 PM
Well you didn't think a gentlemanly grandfather would do well in a den of vipers did ya?

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:25 PM
I fucking HATE when someone calls someone a troll because they have a dissenting opinion.

how about argue against it, but this "troll" bullshit is ridiculous. either defeat it with logic or shut the hell up.

This is a public forum that anyone can sign onto. If you want to tell us that there are no trolls, you're probably one yourself.

Guitarzan
01-05-2008, 10:26 PM
The title of the thread alone alerted me. If you are not a troll, and are offering serious criticism, I would suggest a more positive title in the least. After you accomplish that, I would think you would also offer your advice in a much more positive manner. This is a site for furthering our candidate, and that should be everyone's goal. Threads titled such as this do nothing to further the cause.

Think12345
01-05-2008, 10:26 PM
I hate to admit, I agree with many points of OP. In partucular

1. RP needs speech training
2. Many very simple ideas should be simplified into one-liners that bottom 20 percentile person can comprehend
3. The Message has A LOT of positivity, hope and promise in it. While we take it for granted, because we spent time to understand it, it has to be spelled out when talking to a wide audience (as opposed to supporters rally).

greendiseaser
01-05-2008, 10:26 PM
After Iowa jolted me to the reality that Ron Paul may not win I decided to take a good look at why he's not polling higher and getting more respect. Tonight's debate was very telling.

First of all, RP needs to be more assertive. All the other candidates were fighting for airtime and getting their points across. This makes them look like strong leaders. RP was getting cut-off from the others and conceding to them. He wasn't being forceful enough to be heard. I know that most of you will say it's because he's too polite blah blah blah, but if you want to get the message across you have to speak up! When you let others have the last word every time it weakens your position.

When he did have time to speak, his message wasn't clear or simple. I have studied economics and monetary policy and trust me the average person hates that stuff. Even when they hear it they tune it out like most of my classmates who were forced to take macroeconomics. He needs to simplify the message and hit home points that will stick in people's minds. Also, his messages were too short, he had plenty of time to talk but he would only talk for 30 seconds. It was kind of akward because the moderator was expecting more but RP was done.

Next, he stumbled a lot of his sentences. It was hard to listen to him because he made too many mistakes (maybe he wasn't feeling well). Maybe he needs a speech coach to help me get rid of the fillers (ahhhh's, ummmm's, etc.). Also his posture needs to improve and he needs to stop fiddling with the pen. COMMUNICATION IS 80% BODY LANGUAGE.

Finally I can't recall any messages of hope from him tonight!! It's great he's giving analysis on why things are happening (i.e. foreign policy), but where are the solutions? If I remember the final question was about gas prices or something, and he's talking about how gas has stayed in terms of gold, and it's the dollar that's losing value, that's all well and good, but what are you going to do about it? He didn't mention anything about a solution or a message of hope.

So to sum it up, RP needs to be more assertive, better posture, appear more confident, and not screw up his words so much. I know a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm giving an analysis of what I saw tonight. The official campaign needs to look at this and fix it, this isn't some backwater election, it's a national one and they need professionalism.


So who "won"?
Best performance - 9iu11iani - as much as I hate this guy, he's very articulate and they way he laid out his message (tone/content) I can see a lot of sheeple being convinced.

Worst Performance - Thompson - honestly this guy needs to go to a retirement home and sleep the rest of life away. He just comes off as lazy and apathetic.

Most Entertaining - McCain - He got Romney with quite a few zingers.

We need to be real and being critical will only help us improve and increase our chances.

+1

The people who say you are a troll are blind "fanboys".
:D :D :D

I love how some on here think you are trying to sway them from their vote, "you won't convince me, i'm voting for ron."

NO SHIT!

I think the op understands that ALL OF US are voting for Ron,
THATS NOT THE POINT

There are millions of voters in this country,
and unless Ron Paul can figure out away to communicate his consistent message AND DRESS IT UP IN A PRETTY PACKAGE, we are screwed.

Everyone looking for "hope" will flock to Obama, everyone looking for a "strong leader" will pick any of the other shmucks.

I think the best comment here was the one about not having a solution.

YOU KNOW HE HAS ONE,
I KNOW HE HAS ONE,
and the solution is IMPLICIT IN HIS MESSAGE,
But sheeple can't understand an inference, even if it is something as simple as "dick + ass" = buttrape.

HE NEEDS TO SPELL IT OUT FOR THE SIMPLETON
or all is lost.

That's not trolling,
that's truth!

traitorist
01-05-2008, 10:26 PM
Nice post.

Gotta love those who call others trolls for posting constructive criticism.

+1.

Created4
01-05-2008, 10:26 PM
You guys make me laugh. I don't care if the guy has 1 post or 1000 posts, he gave an educated opinion. Respect his opinion and not write him off as a troll? I personally agree with many of the things he is saying anyways.

Ditto. He is correct in everything he wrote. I don't know why people continually rank Guliani so low - he is a fantastic communicator. However, as even Ron Paul will admit, it is the message that attracts people, not the man. But will it be enough? Is the power of the Internet, where Ron Paul's message is VERY WELL communicated, be the deciding factor, or do most people still get their information from the MSM like tonight's debate? We'll know Tuesday night, because there has been a lot of effort and funds spent to do well in NH.

kahless
01-05-2008, 10:27 PM
Considering the responses it looks like they ignored the title about blind fanboyism. Not sure why anyone would think that term is so obscure since I have heard from people of all ages and I am 40.

I also did not get from the OPs post that he was not going to vote for Ron Paul or trying persuade others not to. My feelings are similiar believing that Ron needs to assert himself more (keep talking when they interupt him), stop looking down and fiddling with his pen. Perhaps he was tired from all the travelling.

Peppy690
01-05-2008, 10:27 PM
i agree with the original poster, however i think paul won

Feelgood
01-05-2008, 10:27 PM
Guiliani FTW!!!! LOL

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/L/e/1/giuliani_in_drag2.jpg

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 10:28 PM
The title of the thread alone alerted me. If you are not a troll, and are offering serious criticism, I would suggest a more positive title in the least. After you accomplish that, I would think you would also offer your advice in a much more positive manner. This is a site for furthering our candidate, and that should be everyone's goal. Threads titled such as this do nothing to further the cause.

Maybe you should accept the fact that perhaps your opinion isn't the opinion of others? As I stated earlier, I agree with what the OP has to say. Does that make me a troll? Does constructive criticism not attempt to improve what you say is "furthering the cause?"

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:28 PM
VishIx,

I agree almost 100%

As Ron Paul supporters, we know the issues, we know where he stands. Others don't.
To the average sheeple he doesn't make much sense at all.

I wish more supporters wouldn't take it so personally. I try to put myself in the shoes of someone who doesn't know any of them ...and then watch.

You make some valid points that others need to recognize. Quit looking at everything through a "loyalty scope" and take some constructive criticism.

Do other really think that Ron Paul stepped up and won that debate? Seriously?
Don't kid yourself.

I don't think he did bad or lost voters.
I really don't think he earned any either.

Just my oppinion


Yes, Ron Paul needs to target the average joe sixpack. His supporters on the web know what he's about because they were looking for him. On tv he has to bring people to him through soundbites and slogans and body language. He needs to step up his game or else 10% is all we are gonna get.

Johncjackson
01-05-2008, 10:28 PM
I thought he did well and I remember one part in particular ( though I can't think of it right now, lol) where he got really excited and had a very forceful but clear answer. I say this because sometimes he tends to get excited and agitated and it comes across as a little rushed and can come off negative, but this time it was like a really good positive energy.

There were a couple things I wanted him to say. A couple instances where McCain said "all of the other guys up here" where he should have cut in. I also wanted him to mention his experience as a doctor- especially during the healthcare. I'm literally yelling at the screen "I'm a doctor dammit, i delivered 4000 babies. I know how this shit works!"

But overall I thought he did well and he was in the spotlight a lot. The seating arrangement was good, he was attacked quite a bit and got attention. Even if the post debate spin doctors ignore him, people who saw it probably got something.

I also think the part where he was complimentary of Obama on some things but also contrasted the differences was a good move.

Ibtz
01-05-2008, 10:29 PM
What age group uses the term "fanboy"? I hear it a lot. I guess I'm older. The term I use to describe people who use the word "fanboy" is "gay". There is clearly a generation gap.

Classic.

purplechoe
01-05-2008, 10:29 PM
I thought Ron did great. Clear and to the point. I could not ask for more.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:29 PM
Ditto. He is correct in everything he wrote. I don't know why people continually rank Guliani so low - he is a fantastic communicator. However, as even Ron Paul will admit, it is the message that attracts people, not the man. But will it be enough? Is the power of the Internet, where Ron Paul's message is VERY WELL communicated, be the deciding factor, or do most people still get their information from the MSM like tonight's debate? We'll know Tuesday night, because there has been a lot of effort and funds spent to do well in NH.

Giuliani= Noun, Verb, 911 not-equal-to great communicator

homah
01-05-2008, 10:30 PM
I think people are reacting so harshly because they are for Dr. Paul because of his message, not his delivery. Of course that is true of all of us. However, to get the average American on board, he needs to have a more polished delivery. He can do this without having to compromise the message.

liberty_Forever
01-05-2008, 10:30 PM
Yeah but America is brainwashed not to think; the campaign needs to get some professionals on board.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 10:31 PM
i have been here saying much of the same thing tonight.

is Ron Paul going to or NOT going to rise to the occasion and pistol whip these other scumbags?

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Same thing that happened after the Iowa results. Gosh this is sad. Notice how he tries to draw attention with his name of the post "A REAL analysis" trying to belittle anyone else's analysis and make himself seem right. Guys this is part of the game, the reason people are calling others trolls is because their are "Trolls" or more specifically people who come in here and trying to sway public opinion. Listen to Ron Paul the CFR exists and their job is to manipulate public opinion. What is going on here is exactly that. Do people who work for the CFR (Enemies of Ron Paul in as Ron Paul put it "A battle of ideas") come here and try to manipulate opinions? Yes.. it's their job. By the way Ron Paul owned the debate ;)

FenceWalker
01-05-2008, 10:31 PM
First of all, RP needs to be more assertive. All the other candidates were fighting for airtime and getting their points across. This makes them look like strong leaders.
Maybe it's a generational thing. Makes me think of them as rude assholes that I would never vote for. <shrug>

it's a national one and they need professionalism.
Irony, right? Professionalism is cutting folks off and talking over them?

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:31 PM
I think there are a bunch of trolls who decided to all act at the same time.

I only think that because this was, imo, Ron Paul's best debate.

christagious
01-05-2008, 10:32 PM
I'm sick of seeing the world "troll" in this forum. I want to see the word troll show up as **** in the forums.

Johncjackson
01-05-2008, 10:32 PM
Maybe i just hang around a higher class of people ( and I don't mean in economics or elitism), but people I know think Rudy and all those guys who laugh and snicker make themselves look really bad.

I also hope some of the pessimism is underestimating the Independents and Republicans of NH.

Mortikhi
01-05-2008, 10:32 PM
There are alot of new people here tonight and many sub 50 post people.

I generally dont read posts from people that have < 100 or > 3000 posts.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:33 PM
I'm sick of seeing the world "troll" in this forum. I want to see the word troll show up as **** in the forums.

I want to see all of your posts show up as

************************************************** **********************

because you are trying to make everyone believe the ridiculous: that there are no trolls on the internet.

Dorfsmith
01-05-2008, 10:33 PM
I think people are reacting so harshly because they are for Dr. Paul because of his message, not his delivery. Of course that is true of all of us. However, to get the average American on board, he needs to have a more polished delivery. He can do this without having to compromise the message.

There were some weak Paul moments early on but he finished with a bang. I wouldn't want Ron Paul to come off as smooth and slick. He comes off as a real guy who really cares and that's good enough for me. But I know Joe American is obsessed with fake hair and airbrushing and everything nice and polished. :(

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 10:33 PM
Same thing that happened after the Iowa results. Gosh this is sad. Notice how he tries to draw attention with his name of the post "A REAL analysis" trying to belittle anyone else's analysis and make himself seem right. Guys this is part of the game, the reason people are calling others trolls is because their are "Trolls" or more specifically people who come in here and trying to sway public opinion. Listen to Ron Paul the CFR exists and their job is to manipulate public opinion. What is going on here is exactly that. Do people who work for the CFR (Enemies of Ron Paul in as Ron Paul put it "A battle of ideas") come here and try to manipulate opinions? Yes.. it's their job. By the way Ron Paul owned the debate ;)


OK, you my friend are a complete example of someone that needs to get their HEAD out of their A$$. Not everybody here is a member of the establishment OK?

Myerz
01-05-2008, 10:33 PM
I think he did great but he needs to tell Romney to shut the fuck up!
I don't like using that tone....but his frickin interupting and then not answering the question just pissed me off!

readyja
01-05-2008, 10:33 PM
I see a troll.

RPDelegate
01-05-2008, 10:34 PM
I have to honestly agree with pretty much everything the creator of this thread said. I completely agree with RP's message. And I personally don't care that much about his personality. But having a more assertive personality would make things a lot better for his campaign.

arbnranger
01-05-2008, 10:34 PM
Same thing that happened after the Iowa results. Gosh this is sad. Notice how he tries to draw attention with his name of the post "A REAL analysis" trying to belittle anyone else's analysis and make himself seem right. Guys this is part of the game, the reason people are calling others trolls is because their are "Trolls" or more specifically people who come in here and trying to sway public opinion. Listen to Ron Paul the CFR exists and their job is to manipulate public opinion. What is going on here is exactly that. Do people who work for the CFR (Enemies of Ron Paul in as Ron Paul put it "A battle of ideas") come here and try to manipulate opinions? Yes.. it's their job. By the way Ron Paul owned the debate ;)

You sound like a troll that wants us to continue on the path that we are going.

Happy to be confident in everything we do with no self reflection.

"NO WAY we CAN'T possibly improve lets keep doing EXACTLY what we are doing."

What are your motives ???

Ron Paul Fan
01-05-2008, 10:35 PM
Same thing that happened after the Iowa results. Gosh this is sad. Notice how he tries to draw attention with his name of the post "A REAL analysis" trying to belittle anyone else's analysis and make himself seem right. Guys this is part of the game, the reason people are calling others trolls is because their are "Trolls" or more specifically people who come in here and trying to sway public opinion. Listen to Ron Paul the CFR exists and their job is to manipulate public opinion. What is going on here is exactly that. Do people who work for the CFR (Enemies of Ron Paul in as Ron Paul put it "A battle of ideas") come here and try to manipulate opinions? Yes.. it's their job. By the way Ron Paul owned the debate ;)

I agree 100%. I also said this earlier in the thread. They want Ron Paul gone.

greendiseaser
01-05-2008, 10:35 PM
Maybe i just hang around a higher class of people ( and I don't mean in economics or elitism), but people I know think Rudy and all those guys who laugh and snicker make themselves look really bad.

You may want to think about why those people who "make themselves look really bad" are all polling higher than the good doctor.
:(

You definately hang with a "higher class" of people.

In general, ANY one who has found and gravitated towards Ron is in the elite minority, when it comes to "right thinking."

And that is the problem we are trying to address here.
HOW TO DUMB IT DOWN AND MAKE IT "SELLABLE"?

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 10:36 PM
You guys make me laugh. I don't care if the guy has 1 post or 1000 posts, he gave an educated opinion. Respect his opinion and not write him off as a troll? I personally agree with many of the things he is saying anyways.

+1000

nosebruise
01-05-2008, 10:36 PM
Yes, Ron Paul needs to target the average joe sixpack. His supporters on the web know what he's about because they were looking for him. On tv he has to bring people to him through soundbites and slogans and body language. He needs to step up his game or else 10% is all we are gonna get.

average joe sixpack doesnt watch debates on a saturday afternoon when a game is on.
if average joe sixpack votes its probably cause his friends told him who to vote for.

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 10:36 PM
You sound like a troll that wants us to continue on the path that we are going.

Happy to be confident in everything we do with no self reflection.

"NO WAY we CAN'T possibly improve lets keep doing EXACTLY what we are doing."

What are your motives ???

"No way we CAN'T possibly improve lets keep doing EXACTLY what we are doing? " What are you even talking about we are talking about Ron Paul's performance how we heck can we improve his performance? Are you in the right thread? Maybe you copied and pasted an attack about the money bomb tactics or the blimp or something WE are involved in.. Rofl

This is exactly the type of stuff I'm talking about guys.. keep your eyes open. "We're not alone" haha

By the way I think HE did great in the debate.. sigh ;/

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:36 PM
Same thing that happened after the Iowa results. Gosh this is sad. Notice how he tries to draw attention with his name of the post "A REAL analysis" trying to belittle anyone else's analysis and make himself seem right. Guys this is part of the game, the reason people are calling others trolls is because their are "Trolls" or more specifically people who come in here and trying to sway public opinion. Listen to Ron Paul the CFR exists and their job is to manipulate public opinion. What is going on here is exactly that. Do people who work for the CFR (Enemies of Ron Paul in as Ron Paul put it "A battle of ideas") come here and try to manipulate opinions? Yes.. it's their job. By the way Ron Paul owned the debate ;)


I chose that title because all I was seeing on the board was "RON PAUL WON DEBATE". Now it's time for a reality check. Look what happened in Iowa! I DO NOT WANT TO GET INTO GROUP THINK AGAIN. Where everyone thinks we are doing so great and then we end up 5th. We have to continually improve non-stop with no breaks. This involves looking at Ron Paul through unfiltered fanboy eyes and trying to see him how the average American sees him.

BTW you CFR arguments are nonsensical and make you seem like a kook... is there were RP gets the kooky image from? You can either wrap yourself in the conspiracy blanket or wake up and help Ron Paul win.

jabrownie
01-05-2008, 10:38 PM
Not Troll, I agree completely; been hearing similar comments on several other forums. He needs to get a speech/presentation coach. Not a knock, I love Dr. Paul, but body language and poise are very important factors when conveying a message. That stated, I loved the message he gave tonight.

One addition, just realized it tonight when watching the debate. Dr. Paul needs to present the American public with an alternative to the war. It is not enough to simply point out that there is a problem, he needs to point out an answer. He said that we should pull out, but also that terrorism is a large threat that we have to address, but I have never heard him say how he would address it. He needs to put forward an alternative so that people don't see the available options as only being troops or do nothing.

My recommendation would be something like this. Terrorists do not fight using traditional methods, fielding a massive army simply isn't effective. We need to go after them using our special forces, black ops, and by boosting our foreign intelligence networks that have been severely depleted in recent years. Using a giant sledgehammer like we have been harms both friend and foe. This is not effective. Some of those we harm then try to seek revenge. It creates a situation like Isreal and Palastine where one blows up the other and vice versa over and over again in an endless downward spiral. It is not efficient, it taxes and strains our military, it loses global goodwill, our young men and women who are serving this country get needlessly injured or killed, and it costs us trillions which leads to debt and inflation that harms everybody. Instead of using a sledgehammer, there is a smarter way; and it is time that we seriously consider alternative methods of dealing with this critical issue.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:38 PM
I've said many times that I'm sure the Ron Paul campaign reads this forum.

Now I know why there are so many trolls.

christagious
01-05-2008, 10:38 PM
I want to see all of your posts show up as

************************************************** **********************

because you are trying to make everyone believe the ridiculous: that there are no trolls on the internet.

I'm just tired of every time somebody tries to give constructive criticism or ask a question about something, they're just written off as a "troll". Half the people on here refuse to give intelligent answers, they just want to personally attack people and call them names.

Besides, trolls are big-nosed ugly creatures on David the Gnome. the proper term for some people on the forum is "Negative Nancy"

fuzzybekool
01-05-2008, 10:38 PM
Truth trumpets taperd hairlines and twisted ideologies. I will stick with Ron Paul win or lose.

A. Havnes
01-05-2008, 10:38 PM
I also don't think he's a troll for stating constructive criticism. I just watched both the republicans and democrats debate, so I'm just going to summarize real quick what I thought of the debate as a whole before I get to Ron Paul.

For the democratics (have to get them out of the way), Hillary drove me nuts, as she normally does. So did the guy sitting next to her (I can't remember his name). John Edwards had a few moments where he really stood out and I enjoyed listening to him, and Obama also did quite well on some subjects.

Rudy Guiliani didn't capture my interest much. Some of you have said that he really did well in this debate, but to me he didn't seem any stronger than he has in his other debates. I was really turned off by all of the attacks everyone was throwing at one another, so Rudy just kind of turned off for me, as did Romney and McCain.

It still shocks me that Thomson did as well as he did in Iowa, as he not only lacks any semblence of a leader, but it almost seemed that he didn't care too much about the debate; it was like he thought NH would be an easy win and he didn't have to put forth much effort.

Huckabee didn't get too far, I didn't think. If you want to know how he handles immigration, just take a look at his record as governor. He didn't stand out, and I thought that his ego would have skyrocketted after Iowa.

I thought Ron Paul did a good job of setting himself apart. I got my mom to watch the debate and it was the first time she'd seen Ron on TV (when I went to visit my brother he still wouldn't watch, though). She's seen some Youtube clips and really liked him, but was shocked that they didn't seem to treat him like a real candidate during or after the debate. I concur that that is exactly what hurt him the most this debate. Not only was he treated like a joke when he started on foreign policy (they always attack him for that), but after the debate there was no coverage of what he had to say at all. No one summed up his message, nor did we get any response from his campaign. I also agree that Ron Paul needs to be more assertive, but we're going to have to work to make sure that he also gets the coverage he needs, and positive at that.

I really wish that he would have spoke up more on the subjects of health care, as he's a doctor, and also on immigration, for I think that he could have blown everyone else away if he elaborated on these subjects during the debate.

All in all, I'm still not sure what to think of the debate overall. It seemed to do a lot for the democrats, but not too much for the republicans, which is a real shame.

Ron Paul Fan
01-05-2008, 10:39 PM
average joe sixpack doesnt watch debates on a saturday afternoon when a game is on.
if average joe sixpack votes its probably cause his friends told him who to vote for.

I agree. Average joe sixpack was watching the nfl playoffs today. Big Ben choked, btw.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:39 PM
Maybe it's a generational thing. Makes me think of them as rude assholes that I would never vote for. <shrug>

Irony, right? Professionalism is cutting folks off and talking over them?


Being shot down and talked over and not given any respect doesn't make you look strong and presidential to the average person. When being attacked in that manner you have to stand up for yourself instead of being passive. He could have had a Huckabee moment and shot to the top if he had said something that really made the American people pay attention. It was an opportunity lost! HE WAS SITTING IN THE MIDDLE! The best spot to be and you barely noticed that Ron Paul was there.

christagious
01-05-2008, 10:40 PM
There are alot of new people here tonight and many sub 50 post people.

I generally dont read posts from people that have < 100 or > 3000 posts.

Why read this post then? Don't start now

Dorfsmith
01-05-2008, 10:40 PM
I agree. Average joe sixpack was watching the nfl playoffs today. Big Ben choked, btw.

This is true. I just went to the music boards I post at and they all watched the nfl stuff. Thankfully most of them are voting for Ron Paul because I told them too :p:D

literatim
01-05-2008, 10:40 PM
http://xs222.xs.to/xs222/07505/Don__t_feed_the_Troll.jpg

Todd McGreevy
01-05-2008, 10:40 PM
I do agree with this original posting... it is good solid constructive criticism... we are all way too close to this in this forum... we have been living and breathing his message for months... in my opinion he came off as on the defensive (and he is, i know) and semi-whining... we've all seen him when he is way more Zen like in his delivery (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmykwHTmVQo)... so who knows how we all would have performed in this pressure cooker.

We need to define what "win" the debate means.
With regards to potentially changing people's minds about a candidate, I agree, Rudy did very well... he was articulate and methodical... he was on... and hey, if you think the number one way to live your life is in fear of radical islam, then he is your guy, he made that clear....and he came across as "presidential" while he did it.

Does anyone know if anyone from the inner circle of RP's campaign is looking at this constructive criticism?

The reason we all love Ron Paul and trust Ron Paul is the reason why he will probably not be capable of the calculating strategy that this posting suggests... he's just too damn honest... doesn't mean that he can't improve... but he is 72 years old... has anyone ever been able to get a person of that age to change their ways?!

I could go on and on and on about ways to package his debate comments and how much better he could have done with Tim Russert... e.g. the Earmarks, perfect opp to claim he is the most transparent honest legislator in congress.

And YES, the campaign does need to start hammering home ACTION STEPS he is going to take to solve the problems he so methodically explains.
This article is very good: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/20969

When you have $19M+ (some of which we all donated), the excuses for not having a gaggle of media savvy, legislation researchists at your side before these public appearances are gone... i wish there were a way to get him some assistance like this article above states and like this posting has posited...

Lew Moore are reading this? There are many of us who can help...
But then again, I am sure there was lots of second guessing Reagan by his fans, maybe Ron Paul is smart like a fox and as someone posted elsewhere, let's not forget he was a long distance runner in school.

www.ronpaulringtones.org

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:41 PM
I'm just tired of every time somebody tries to give constructive criticism or ask a question about something, they're just written off as a "troll". Half the people on here refuse to give intelligent answers, they just want to personally attack people and call them names.

Besides, trolls are big-nosed ugly creatures on David the Gnome. the proper term for some people on the forum is "Negative Nancy"

It isn't everyone. And the only reason people are reacting is the fact that Ron Paul could hardly have done better.

This seems like a coordinated attack. I believe it is, and if no other candidate tried to do that they would be crazy. Politics are dirty, far dirtier then the minimum dirt required to be a troll.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:42 PM
http://xs222.xs.to/xs222/07505/Don__t_feed_the_Troll.jpg

If we ignore the trolls and never respond everyone will think they represent us.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 10:43 PM
I hate to admit, I agree with many points of OP. In partucular

1. RP needs speech training
2. Many very simple ideas should be simplified into one-liners that bottom 20 percentile person can comprehend
3. The Message has A LOT of positivity, hope and promise in it. While we take it for granted, because we spent time to understand it, it has to be spelled out when talking to a wide audience (as opposed to supporters rally).

+1000
And yes...I LOVE Ron Paul! Constructive criticism is fine. We really do need to dumb ourselves down a bit to think like brainwashed sheep! We can't except the average joe has a clue about what he is saying and I doubt they will research it. They will stick with what they know if they don't know where you are coming from. The message is brilliant!

literatim
01-05-2008, 10:43 PM
If we ignore the trolls and never respond everyone will think they represent us.

You can't take trolls seriously though.

arbnranger
01-05-2008, 10:44 PM
"No way we CAN'T possibly improve lets keep doing EXACTLY what we are doing? " What are you even talking about we are talking about Ron Paul's performance how we heck can we improve his performance? Are you in the right thread? Maybe you copied and pasted an attack about the money bomb tactics or something WE are involved in.. Rofl
By the way I think HE did great.. sigh ;/

ROFL? whats so funny?

I'm addressing the fact that you love the word troll.
Some people are trying to take a look at Ron Pauls performance and strategies from a different perspective.

From your posts you seem to indicate that anyone that doesn't jump up and yell "woo hoo Ron did great, he is the BESYever!!!!!" is a troll.

Spend less time attacking other SUPPORTERS and more time analyzing things from a different perspective. (ya know ...the same thing we ask others to do about the government and politics)

kahless
01-05-2008, 10:44 PM
Maybe it's a generational thing. Makes me think of them as rude assholes that I would never vote for. <shrug>

Irony, right? Professionalism is cutting folks off and talking over them?

I think the same way but it seems the media plays up rude assholes as being Presidential statesman like. This while the ignorant sheeple eat it up. So unfortunately he has to play the game.

ionlyknowy
01-05-2008, 10:44 PM
Ron Paul doesnt get a lot of support from women.

That is because women vote for the guy they would want to f*ck.

Sad but true. Huck has the funny one liners, and appears benevolent, Mitt looks powerful and asserts himself.

Ron Paul actually has the right message, but for many women the message is not what they vote for.... Ron doesnt stand up straight, doesnt assert himself around all of the others, and he doesnt make attempts at humor.

Our country is so stupid.

There is a Green Day song that says "Dont want to be an American idiot" "A nation controlled by the media" Never knew what this meant until I looked into Ron Paul.

Americans are taught and bred to have HUGE egos, and to think that they are the best and their country is the best. This will lead to our demise

~River~
01-05-2008, 10:44 PM
I fucking HATE when someone calls someone a troll because they have a dissenting opinion.

how about argue against it, but this "troll" bullshit is ridiculous. either defeat it with logic or shut the hell up.


+1

but I think he is a islamic radical not a troll

EDIT: pls know I am joking

Xepa
01-05-2008, 10:45 PM
you CANNOT call everyone a troll who comes here and criticizes Paul.

There's a REASON why we're not higher nationally.

There's a REASON why we aren't polling high.

People just don't UNDERSTAND what Paul is saying. Monetary policy,
blowback, shortfall, etc. Most people aren't smart enough to take
an economics course that will go in depth on this, and most adults
forgot about that stuff long ago (unless they're wealthy, in which case
these issues still matter).

Paul does need to add more charisma. I know. I do public speaking
professionally on the side and I've won state and national awards before.
His presentation needs work; he gets cut off too much.
He doesn't assert himself enough. Yes, you stop talking when you
make your point. But you don't stop talking when someone decides
you've talked long enough.

He didn't do horribly. He didn't do that great. I bet he won more people
today than he lost, but he could have won more.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 10:47 PM
Yeah but America is brainwashed not to think; the campaign needs to get some professionals on board.

Amen! We gave them the cash...now use it!!!

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:48 PM
You can't take trolls seriously though.

Well, some of them are quite clever.

A troll doesn't have to be obvious.

You may not know this, but Ron Paul supporters have been evident on other boards undercover. I don't support such activities, but they may have had blowback.

If the grassroots really goes partially through this site, very intelligent campaign workers will use any opportunity to disrupt it. They might act just like us and then act all depressed all of a sudden to generate a false perception of reality.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 10:49 PM
That is because women vote for the guy they would want to f*ck.



:eek:

RPDelegate
01-05-2008, 10:49 PM
I think we need to stop looking at what WE thought of RP tonight. We are already supporting him. He didn't need to say a single word tonight for us. Him being in that debate tonight was hopefully to gain new support. So what we should be talking about in regards to his performance is, do you think he gained new support tonight?

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:49 PM
Question? How are all the people that called me a troll any different than Giulliani, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee when they were attacking Ron Paul? Instead of listening and debating intelligently you all attack and name call to drown out my arguments. You hypocrites need to look in the mirror.

familydog
01-05-2008, 10:50 PM
It's safe to say that the majoirty of the voting population in NH are educated and do research before voting. I don't know if the same can be said for other states, but it makes sense since NH is the first primary, and with that comes responsibilites. The fact is, this debate was geared towards a NH audience and that is what matters right now.

The people of NH, Republicans and Independents have shown a history of being accepting of a Ron Paul message, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that to them, the informed and indepedent thinkers, Ron Paul did well. I'm sure most of the voters already know who Ron Paul was coming into this debate, and his stances were just reinforced. I'm going to go out on a another limb and say that the only people who would come out of this debate and think they aren't going to vote for Paul are people who would NEVER vote for him in the first place.

I think all of this talk, on either side, is rediculous, at this point simply because the NH primary hasn't happened yet.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:51 PM
Question? How are all the people that called me a troll any different than Giulliani, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee when they were attacking Ron Paul? Instead of listening and debating intelligently you all attack and name call to drown out my arguments. You hypocrites need to look in the mirror.

What you just said made no sense whatsoever.

A. Havnes
01-05-2008, 10:51 PM
Ron Paul doesnt get a lot of support from women.

That is because women vote for the guy they would want to f*ck.

Sad but true. Huck has the funny one liners, and appears benevolent, Mitt looks powerful and asserts himself.


Message to all women voters: Huckabee would make you yeild to his will if you got involved with him, Ron Paul would treat you like a human being with equal rights.

However, I know plenty of women who will vote for someone who stands up for what is right. I understand your stance, though, because I also know a lot of women who are only interesting in handsome comedians.

dircha
01-05-2008, 10:51 PM
How can we get this across?

It is not the job of the President of the United States to make sure you pay less than $3.00/gal at the gas pump.

It just isn't. It isn't in the Constitution. It's unlawful.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
Question? How are all the people that called me a troll any different than Giulliani, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee when they were attacking Ron Paul? Instead of listening and debating intelligently you all attack and name call to drown out my arguments. You hypocrites need to look in the mirror.

pwned! that is exactly what some are doing here. ;)

homah
01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
Question? How are all the people that called me a troll any different than Giulliani, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee when they were attacking Ron Paul? Instead of listening and debating intelligently you all attack and name call to drown out my arguments. You hypocrites need to look in the mirror.

They're not any different.

yongrel
01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
Troll more

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
What you just said made no sense whatsoever.

I thought it was pretty clear? What didn't make sense?

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
Answer: When you make a thread titled to grab attention and belittle others opinions and in the thread go on to explain what Ron Paul should do to improve his chances you seem a little trollish. Guys if you think trolls don't exists haha go to Mike Huckabee forums.. Ron Paul supporters talk on it more than Huckabee supporters. Everyone does it... your not a troll Vishx then I guess your just not very intelligent because what good does you posting here telling us what Ron Paul should do to improve his speech do? Your entire post is senseless... and again Ron Paul owned at the debate.. everyone "stuttered" a few times rofl.. its called collecting your thoughts.. things move fast.

kahless
01-05-2008, 10:53 PM
I think we need to stop looking at what WE thought of RP tonight. We are already supporting him. He didn't need to say a single word tonight for us. Him being in that debate tonight was hopefully to gain new support. So what we should be talking about in regards to his performance is, do you think he gained new support tonight?

It was like they throwing a Christian in with the Lions. It does not matter if it was Ron Paul or anyone else with the same beliefs the end result would be the same. The ignorant sheeple in this country will only see these guys ganging up on Paul. This will immediately conjure up that Ron is a dangerous man to have in office and not vote for him.

So the best thing to do is probably buy up air time to get the message out and stay out of these debates.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:53 PM
I thought it was pretty clear? What didn't make sense?

Then you're a troll, because there is no connection, no hypocrasy in saying you are a troll, when some unrelated individuals in a debate somewhere teamed up on someone.

That is just plain non-sequiter.

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 10:54 PM
I'm sick of people trying to squash discussion by playing the "troll" card. The OP made some valid points. His post wasnt troll-ish.

I couldnt help notice how much Ron was slouching tonight. Something he could try and work on. It doesnt matter to me , all i care about is his message and the fact he is a man of integrity, but it does matter to alot of people.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
Not Troll, I agree completely; been hearing similar comments on several other forums. He needs to get a speech/presentation coach. Not a knock, I love Dr. Paul, but body language and poise are very important factors when conveying a message. That stated, I loved the message he gave tonight.

One addition, just realized it tonight when watching the debate. Dr. Paul needs to present the American public with an alternative to the war. It is not enough to simply point out that there is a problem, he needs to point out an answer. He said that we should pull out, but also that terrorism is a large threat that we have to address, but I have never heard him say how he would address it. He needs to put forward an alternative so that people don't see the available options as only being troops or do nothing.

My recommendation would be something like this. Terrorists do not fight using traditional methods, fielding a massive army simply isn't effective. We need to go after them using our special forces, black ops, and by boosting our foreign intelligence networks that have been severely depleted in recent years. Using a giant sledgehammer like we have been harms both friend and foe. This is not effective. Some of those we harm then try to seek revenge. It creates a situation like Isreal and Palastine where one blows up the other and vice versa over and over again in an endless downward spiral. It is not efficient, it taxes and strains our military, it loses global goodwill, our young men and women who are serving this country get needlessly injured or killed, and it costs us trillions which leads to debt and inflation that harms everybody. Instead of using a sledgehammer, there is a smarter way; and it is time that we seriously consider alternative methods of dealing with this critical issue.

Very good point!!

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
We are all trolls. Yay!

With that being said, I think I'm going to cut my time down on this forum because I'm starting to realize that you people are becoming less logical and more obsessive.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
I'm sick of people trying to squash discussion by playing the "troll" card. The OP made some valid points. His post wasnt troll-ish.

I couldnt help notice how much Ron was slouching tonight. Something he could try and work on. It doesnt matter to me , all i care about is his message and the fact he is a man of integrity, but it does matter to alot of people.

He was not slouching any more then he has before. You are full of it.

beachmaster
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
Troll or not, I agree with his assessment over all. My wife does too. We are soley for Ron Paul, and nobody else will do. If he isn't nominated, we will write him in on the general election date.

During the debate I was posting "live as it happened" and I made a couple of "live" comments about how he wasn't using the precious little time he was given. How he missed many opportunities to provide solutions and hope, and to set himself boldly apart from all the others. We were sorta wondering when he would give a rallying message like at his rallies. He could have been a little more aggressive in pointing out his consistency, how he doesn't flip and flop, etc.

Still, he did ok overall, and the bullies showed their asses in their typical playground fight style. Hopefully Americans aren't so dumbed down and Jerry Springerfied that they will soak up the school yard bullies.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

I supported Ron Paul in 88. I'm down with Ron Paul... but if folks here can't understand constructive criticism, and think it's all the work of an enemy, I believe that would be a detriment. If I were running for president, I would PAY someone to tell me where I could improve. I wouldn't pay "yes" men.... I would want the damn truth and nothing less.

I desperately want Ron Paul to win. He is our only shot at saving this nation. I love Ron Paul and everything he stands for.

I don't think the poster was a troll to be honest. If I'm wrong, may I be given 40 lashes.

ronpaulitician
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
I thought Thompson did well.

Paul/Belichick08
01-05-2008, 10:55 PM
I think he did very well tonight. Even when he was getting attacked by everyone at the beginning, he did alright. His answers on immigration, oil prices, and the Obama question were awesome. Everyone else came off as desperate, vicious, and nasty. All in all, a good night.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:56 PM
We are all trolls. Yay!

With that being said, I think I'm going to cut my time down on this forum because you I'm starting to realize that you people are becoming less logical and more obsessive.

So we were always illogical and obsessive, just not as much. Sounds exactly like something a Ron Paul supporter would say...

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 10:57 PM
Troll or not, I agree with his assessment over all. My wife does too. We are soley for Ron Paul, and nobody else will do. If he isn't nominated, we will write him in on the general election date.

During the debate I was posting "live as it happened" and I made a couple of "live" comments about how he wasn't using the precious little time he was given. How he missed many opportunities to provide solutions and hope, and to set himself boldly apart from all the others. We were sorta wondering when he would give a rallying message like at his rallies. He could have been a little more aggressive in pointing out his consistency, how he doesn't flip and flop, etc.

Still, he did ok overall, and the bullies showed their asses in their typical playground fight style. Hopefully Americans aren't so dumbed down and Jerry Springerfied that they will soak up the school yard bullies.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

I supported Ron Paul in 88. I'm down with Ron Paul... but if folks here can't understand constructive criticism, and think it's all the work of an enemy, I believe that would be a detriment. If I were running for president, I would PAY someone to tell me where I could improve. I wouldn't pay "yes" men.... I would want the damn truth and nothing less.

I desperately want Ron Paul to win. He is our only shot at saving this nation. I love Ron Paul and everything he stands for.

I don't think the poster was a troll to be honest. If I'm wrong, may I be given 40 lashes.


You must be a troll.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 10:57 PM
it was mentioned a few pages ago that Ron had front and center seating position tonight at the debate. he could have commanded the debate and used it to propel himself to front and center in the race. i think he missed the opportunity.

in response to the question on how many new voters he gained tonight. certainly some, but not enough to own NH, in my opinion. i guess time will tell.

he had some great moments tonight, but he either needs to step it up or step down.

you are either born to lead or you are not.

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 10:57 PM
I'm sick of people trying to squash discussion by playing the "troll" card. The OP made some valid points. His post wasnt troll-ish.

I couldnt help notice how much Ron was slouching tonight. Something he could try and work on. It doesnt matter to me , all i care about is his message and the fact he is a man of integrity, but it does matter to alot of people.

He made good points on what Ron Paul should do to improve HIS speech? What the heck is he doing telling us what Ron Paul should do.. what does this achieve? The answer is nothing.. but he did achieve 1 thing that was posting very negatively against Ron Paul and suggesting he lost the debate. Oh yeah and informing us Guiliani won with his "Real Analysis"... lol. Wow what a helpful post.. not to mention complete lies.

evandi
01-05-2008, 10:58 PM
You must be a troll.

I don't think he was a troll.

john_anderson_ii
01-05-2008, 10:58 PM
I think the OP has some valid points. Unfortunately all of those points are completely out of the grassroots hands. I wish we could 'articulate bomb' Ron Paul, and make him the superman of the microphone, instantly transforming his speech and presentation into an Olberman style delivery. We can't though, so lets focus on the things we can change....like people's opinions when we show up on their doorstep.

homah
01-05-2008, 10:58 PM
He made good points on what Ron Paul should do to improve HIS speech? What the heck is he doing telling us what Ron Paul should do.. what does this achieve? The answer is nothing.. but he did achieve 1 thing that was posting very negatively against Ron Paul and suggesting he lost the debate. Wow what a helpful post.

Are you people unfamiliar with constructive criticism? He wasn't posting negatively against Dr. Paul.

Some people here have gone off the deep end lately.

driller80545
01-05-2008, 10:58 PM
Last week anyone on here who said that RP would finish 5 in Iowa was called a troll.
I am interested in everyone's opinion about the debate tonight. It helps me to form my own. I am not interested in anyone who thinks RP was great because he is RP. That is not a valid opinion.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 10:59 PM
Answer: When you make a thread titled to grab attention and belittle others opinions and in the thread go on to explain what Ron Paul should do to improve his chances you seem a little trollish. Either that or your not very intelligent because what good does you posting here telling us what Ron Paul should do to improve his speech do? Your entire post is senseless... and again Ron Paul owned at the debate.. everyone "stuttered" a few times rofl.. its called collecting your thoughts.. things move fast.


I'm sorry, I thought a troll was someone that starts threads to incite fights and replies with insults. I didn't know my personal analysis which I thought out and backed up with examples and reason and logic were considered trollish....

Oh wait, you must mean troll in the sense that you have put Ron Paul on a pedestal and any criticism is considered blasphemy... he's not god, and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

The message is way more important than Ron Paul. This grassroots is about the message a lot more than it is about 1 politician, never forget that. If Ron Paul can improve himself to get more voters and increase our chances of getting into the Whitehouse... why would you be against that?

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 10:59 PM
He was not slouching any more then he has before. You are full of it.

No im not . Maybe you havent seen all the debates but this was the 1st one where they were always sitting down....

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
I don't think he was a troll.

It was a joke. You didn't see it... go figure.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
it was mentioned a few pages ago that Ron had front and center seating position tonight at the debate. he could have commanded the debate and used it to propel himself to front and center in the race. i think he missed the opportunity.

in response to the question on how many new voters he gained tonight. certainly some, but not enough to own NH, in my opinion. i guess time will tell.

he had some great moments tonight, but he either needs to step it up or step down.

you are either born to lead or you are not.

Trolls come in all shapes and sizes. It can be subtle and you are just a subtle one.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
Are you people unfamiliar with constructive criticism? He wasn't posting negatively against Dr. Paul.

Some people here have gone off the deep end lately.

I agree.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
I supported Ron Paul in 88. I'm down with Ron Paul... but if folks here can't understand constructive criticism, and think it's all the work of an enemy, I believe that would be a detriment. If I were running for president, I would PAY someone to tell me where I could improve. I wouldn't pay "yes" men.... I would want the damn truth and nothing less.


Amen.

canadianforronpaul
01-05-2008, 11:00 PM
Wow a lot of responses! I agree that if you watch it as someone who is seeing him for the first time, the message may be over the viewer`s head and it may seem like Ron fumbles a bit phonetically. On body language and phonetics I would give him a C, but on his responses I have to say A+ so let us pray the message counts 100% with the voters, I fear it`s not always true. It is true that he comes off as very authentic so there may be a slight positive to the presentation but if I didn`t know his message so well I might not have understood it as a first time viewer having not heard it 1000 times previously on youtube! As many have said, Ron needs to pull in new voters.

The word troll should be reserved for anyone who doesn`t put together a reasoned thoughtful constructive thought - don`t think that applies here.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:01 PM
It was a joke. You didn't see it... go figure.

Um, you were implying that I would assume that anyone who had his opinion was a troll. Now I'm saying to you that I did not think he was a troll.

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 11:01 PM
So we were always illogical and obsessive, just not as much. Sounds exactly like something a Ron Paul supporter would say...

lmao , you just proved him right

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:02 PM
ROFL? whats so funny?

I'm addressing the fact that you love the word troll.
Some people are trying to take a look at Ron Pauls performance and strategies from a different perspective.

From your posts you seem to indicate that anyone that doesn't jump up and yell "woo hoo Ron did great, he is the BESYever!!!!!" is a troll.

Spend less time attacking other SUPPORTERS and more time analyzing things from a different perspective. (ya know ...the same thing we ask others to do about the government and politics)

You have less than 100 posts...and I approve you message!!

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:02 PM
I think the OP has some valid points. Unfortunately all of those points are completely out of the grassroots hands. I wish we could 'articulate bomb' Ron Paul, and make him the superman of the microphone, instantly transforming his speech and presentation into an Olberman style delivery. We can't though, so lets focus on the things we can change....like people's opinions when we show up on their doorstep.

John, you are right. It is out of our hands. There's really nothing we can do about it and it was just a different perspective (we agreed on that) from some of us. Apparantely, some people can't rationalize.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:03 PM
He made good points on what Ron Paul should do to improve HIS speech? What the heck is he doing telling us what Ron Paul should do.. what does this achieve? The answer is nothing.. but he did achieve 1 thing that was posting very negatively against Ron Paul and suggesting he lost the debate. Oh yeah and informing us Guiliani won with his "Real Analysis"... lol. Wow what a helpful post.. not to mention complete lies.


It's about the message and getting elected!! Can you get out of the group think and realize that this election is real? That RP needs to practice and capitalize on EVERY little air time he gets in the debates.

Wow I am starting to worry about this cult of Ron Paul where you can't criticize to try to improve our chances of winning...

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:04 PM
Wow a lot of responses! I agree that if you watch it as someone who is seeing him for the first time, the message may be over the viewer`s head and it may seem like Ron fumbles a bit phonetically. On body language and phonetics I would give him a C, but on his responses I have to say A+ so let us pray the message counts 100% with the voters, I fear it`s not always true. It is true that he comes off as very authentic so there may be a slight positive to the presentation but if I didn`t know his message so well I might not have understood it as a first time viewer having not heard it 1000 times previously on youtube! As many have said, Ron needs to pull in new voters.

The word troll should be reserved for anyone who doesn`t put together a reasoned thoughtful constructive thought - don`t think that applies here.

No, we mean by troll anyone who comes here with bad intentions.

There is no physical law of the universe preventing trolls from being subtle and trying to reason. The reason many are trolls is that they are trying to imply that more RP supporters think like they do. They are trying to activate group-think and also they are trying to change the campaign and hurt it by being dishonest.

beachmaster
01-05-2008, 11:04 PM
You must be a troll.

LOL... then I be a Troll for Ron Paul!

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 11:04 PM
Are you people unfamiliar with constructive criticism? He wasn't posting negatively against Dr. Paul.

Some people here have gone off the deep end lately.

In what way is this constructive criticism..? Are you kidding? Telling us how Ron Paul should improve his speech... how does that relate to us at all? It was a senseless post attacking Ron Paul saying he has bad speech and that he lost the debate, simple and clear. Even if Ron Paul doesn't speak well which I completely disagree with there is no way it's constructive to make a post to US the grassroots saying how HE can improve his speech. I've always been for constructive criticism and this definitely is not constructive.. its a baseless attack.

Inspectorchao
01-05-2008, 11:05 PM
So to sum it up, RP needs to be more assertive, better posture, appear more confident, and not screw up his words so much. I know a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm giving an analysis of what I saw tonight. The official campaign needs to look at this and fix it, this isn't some backwater election, it's a national one and they need professionalism.



I agree that Paul needs to be more assertive. He can't let people cut him off and set the tone. If he is getting laughed at he can't just sit there and take it. A huge problem we have is that people aren't going to come to support Paul if he can't stand up for himself and come off as strong.

hummtide
01-05-2008, 11:05 PM
Trollin..trollin...trollin on a river!"

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:06 PM
Ron Paul doesnt get a lot of support from women.

That is because women vote for the guy they would want to f*ck.

Sad but true. Huck has the funny one liners, and appears benevolent, Mitt looks powerful and asserts himself.

Ron Paul actually has the right message, but for many women the message is not what they vote for.... Ron doesnt stand up straight, doesnt assert himself around all of the others, and he doesnt make attempts at humor.

Our country is so stupid.

There is a Green Day song that says "Dont want to be an American idiot" "A nation controlled by the media" Never knew what this meant until I looked into Ron Paul.

Americans are taught and bred to have HUGE egos, and to think that they are the best and their country is the best. This will lead to our demise

Wow! Nice degregation of women! Your an asshole! I'm a woman and I am intelligent enough to see past the bullshit like any man. My friends, also women, also support Ron Paul! My husban, father, father-in-law, and brother-in-law are all FOX News zombies! My sisters...support Ron Paul.
I suggest you improve your way of thinking or your male egotisitcal ass may never get laid again!

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:06 PM
You have less than 100 posts...and I approve you message!!


I've been following RP since March. I've watched all his Youtube videos and read all up on his policies and followed him daily. Iowa really woke me up from the groupthink everyone is in this forum is involved in. You have to see how to improve his chances from ALL perspectives, not just through the eyes of RP worshipers.

Don't take a holier than thou attitude because you have more posts.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:07 PM
I agree that Paul needs to be more assertive. He can't let people cut him off and set the tone. If he is getting laughed at he can't just sit there and take it. A huge problem we have is that people aren't going to come to support Paul if he can't stand up for himself and come off as strong.

People in a debate never gain by randomly blurting things out. If he doesn't have anything witty to say, he doesn't gain by speaking.

Romney was being a jerk, interrupting people constantly and just blabbing over and over. You don't gain by talking more. You gain by talking correctly.

Drknows
01-05-2008, 11:07 PM
Post negative shit expect to get negative responses back.

Whats the point of posting shit like this? I mean we cant fix the way Ron Paul wears his tie from this message board.

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 11:07 PM
He made good points on what Ron Paul should do to improve HIS speech? What the heck is he doing telling us what Ron Paul should do.. what does this achieve? The answer is nothing.. but he did achieve 1 thing that was posting very negatively against Ron Paul and suggesting he lost the debate. Oh yeah and informing us Guiliani won with his "Real Analysis"... lol. Wow what a helpful post.. not to mention complete lies.

Should I go back and start analyzing each and every post you have made on this forum and determined whether you are a troll or not?. By your logic I only need to find 1 post of yours that was kind of pointless, or find one pointless remark in it to name you a troll.

Quit wastin your time pal. If you dont want to discuss the points made in a post guess what? ignore it. Hell, turn off the computer and do something for the campaign instead. (just a suggestion)

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:08 PM
In what way is this constructive criticism..? Are you kidding? Telling us how Ron Paul should improve his speech... how does that relate to us at all? It was a senseless post attacking Ron Paul saying he has bad speech and that he lost the debate, simple and clear. Even if Ron Paul doesn't speak well which I completely disagree with there is no way it's constructive to make a post to US the grassroots saying how HE can improve his speech. I've always been for constructive criticism and this definitely is not constructive.. its a baseless attack.

He isn't a good speaker. Neither am I. Does it affect his message and it's influence on people that understand it? NO. Does it affect his message and it's influence on people that DON'T understand it? YES! Therefore, it is somewhat of an issue. Ron Paul isn't perfect and that is one of his flaws. I guess I'm just sorry for recognizing it.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:08 PM
Question? How are all the people that called me a troll any different than Giulliani, Romney, McCain, and Huckabee when they were attacking Ron Paul? Instead of listening and debating intelligently you all attack and name call to drown out my arguments. You hypocrites need to look in the mirror.

+1000

traitorist
01-05-2008, 11:09 PM
i think that there a many young people here at the forums that have not matured enough to handle constructive criticism of themselves, much less their candidate. that comes with age, and the weaning off of the immature, hyper-sensitive ego. been there. it's life and it's a part of the grass roots must deal with. the older you get, the more you realize how imperfect you are.

noztnac
01-05-2008, 11:09 PM
Then you are in my age group 19-25, I've never use fanboy and heard it just a couple of times.

I'm 38. The term "fanboy" is gay. It must be used by people under 19. And those people don't vote so I don't know why the hell they are posting here.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:09 PM
Should I go back and start analyzing each and every post you have made on this forum and determined whether you are a troll or not?. By your logic I only need to find 1 post of yours that was kind of pointless, or find one pointless remark in it to name you a troll.

Quit wastin your time pal. If you dont want to discuss the points made in a post guess what? ignore it. Hell, turn off the computer and do something for the campaign instead. (just a suggestion)

Thats a suggestion that has been used before. "Leave the forum so we can take over", you say.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 11:10 PM
Don't take a holier than thou attitude because you have more posts.

yea, what he said. :p

Scott Wilson
01-05-2008, 11:10 PM
I agree that Paul needs to be more assertive. He can't let people cut him off and set the tone. If he is getting laughed at he can't just sit there and take it. A huge problem we have is that people aren't going to come to support Paul if he can't stand up for himself and come off as strong.


I agree.



Folks cut the troll accusation bullshit out. I thought what the original poster said was valid.

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 11:11 PM
Vishx I thank you for your many great ideas about how Ron Paul can improve HIS speech. I also thank you for your genius input on how we are all wrong that Ron Paul won the debate and in reality it was Guiliani. 1 question why are you telling us this and not Ron Paul?
Oh wait I answered that in earlier post.. never mind. Go attack something that WE actually are involved in.. you might get better results. :/

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:11 PM
i think that there a many young people here at the forums that have not matured enough to handle constructive criticism of themselves, much less their candidate. that comes with age, and the weaning off of the immature, hyper-sensitive ego. been there. it's life and it's a part of the grass roots must deal with. the older you get, the more you realize how imperfect you are.

I think there are many mid-aged people from other campaigns posting here.

homah
01-05-2008, 11:11 PM
In what way is this constructive criticism..? Are you kidding? Telling us how Ron Paul should improve his speech... how does that relate to us at all? It was a senseless post attacking Ron Paul saying he has bad speech and that he lost the debate, simple and clear. Even if Ron Paul doesn't speak well which I completely disagree with there is no way it's constructive to make a post to US the grassroots saying how HE can improve his speech. I've always been for constructive criticism and this definitely is not constructive.. its a baseless attack.

So I assume you think the "positive" posts are useless as well, since Ron Paul doesn't read them personally? I don't see the problem here. This is the "ABC/Facebook Debate" forum. He created a thread to suggest how Ron Paul could improve his performance at future debates, based on how he performed in this debate. Of course, the grassroots cannot do anything to improve his speech. This is no different than any other thread, except some are perceiving it as "negative."

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:12 PM
I agree.



Folks cut the troll accusation bullshit out. I thought what the original poster said was valid.

Stop insinuating that there are no trolls here. Trolls are a fact of internet life. To not believe they exist is tantamount to disbelieving the world is round.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:13 PM
I'm 38. The term "fanboy" is gay. It must be used by people under 19. And those people don't vote so I don't know why the hell they are posting here.

It's a term many of us "techsavy" people have come to understand. I personally use the word d1ckrider. How about you provide us with the PROPER definition of what to call someone that is incredibly OBSESSED with something and we can use it... Webster.

Drknows
01-05-2008, 11:14 PM
Wow you guys are winners... attacking me with one word response... "Troll". Instead of having an educated debate and criticism you dumb it down to one word. Fine be blind. Watch tomorrow when the media is talking about how well Giulliani did. You can rate me down and call me names but unless you WAKE UP and see that changes are needed by the campaign and Ron Paul we are going to mired in the fringe 10%!

And I thought the average population was blind, I guess RP fanboys don't want to think critically either.

Oh tell us what to do!!! How can we make Ron Paul sit up straight? How can we make Ron Paul Tell funny jokes at the debate?


What is there to debate? WE CANT CHANGE RON PAULS PERSONALITY!!!

Fckn idiots

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:15 PM
He made good points on what Ron Paul should do to improve HIS speech? What the heck is he doing telling us what Ron Paul should do.. what does this achieve? The answer is nothing.. but he did achieve 1 thing that was posting very negatively against Ron Paul and suggesting he lost the debate. Oh yeah and informing us Guiliani won with his "Real Analysis"... lol. Wow what a helpful post.. not to mention complete lies.


If this is biting your ass so much...why are you still here? There are 1000's of posts for you to read. Some of us open minded, visionary thinkers would like to have an adult conversation without morons interrupting with their "Troll" bullshit. Go away!

homah
01-05-2008, 11:15 PM
Stop insinuating that there are no trolls here. Trolls are a fact of internet life. To not believe they exist is tantamount to disbelieving the world is round.

Of course they exist. That doesn't mean anyone who posts a dissenting opinion is one.

Meh, at least I finally have a signature:

"I used to think I was paranoid. Then I found the Ron Paul Forums."

Thumper
01-05-2008, 11:15 PM
I think it's interesting to note that the "Frontrunner 5" were tearing each other apart on their respective records. Not one of them brought up RP's record once. Instead they engaged in personal attacks, the pro war attack, making faces and generally being rude as a way of trying to discredit RP. Apparently they all understand that bringing up RP's political record is the "third rail" issue for them in these debates.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:15 PM
It's a term many of us "techsavy" people have come to understand. I personally use the word d1ckrider. How about you provide us with the PROPER definition of what to call someone that is incredibly OBSESSED with something and we can use it... Webster.

I don't think you suffer from Ron Paul fever. It's not really a disease you know.

It seems pretty important to defend the boards I've been viewing and posting in for a long time.

Anyone who insinuates that Ron Paul supporters are fanboys does not believe Ron Paul's positions are important enough to distinguish him from the pack, hence doubtfully are you a supporter at all, nor have you been struck by "Ron Paul fever".

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 11:16 PM
No, we mean by troll anyone who comes here with bad intentions.

There is no physical law of the universe preventing trolls from being subtle and trying to reason. The reason many are trolls is that they are trying to imply that more RP supporters think like they do. They are trying to activate group-think and also they are trying to change the campaign and hurt it by being dishonest.

"Group-think"? ..oh the muthahucking irony... :D

homah
01-05-2008, 11:16 PM
What is there to debate? WE CANT CHANGE RON PAULS PERSONALITY!!!

This thread isn't about changing his personality.

beachmaster
01-05-2008, 11:16 PM
Maybe one of Ron Paul's first acts as President (after he ends the war on drugs and poverty, terrorism, etc.) is to start a new war. A war on Trolls.

Nope.... that's way too Neo-Connish for Ron Paul.

I think he will allow dissent!

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:17 PM
Of course they exist. That doesn't mean anyone who posts a dissenting opinion is one.

Meh, at least I finally have a signature:

"I used to think I was paranoid. Then I found the Ron Paul Forums."

Yep, paranoid to think that anyone would go through the trouble to use a yahoo account to sign up to a public forum and mess with people.

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 11:17 PM
If this is biting your ass so much...why are you still here? There are 1000's of posts for you to read. Some of us open minded, visionary thinkers would like to have an adult conversation without morons interrupting with their "Troll" bullshit. Go away!

An adult conversation? Wow your a funny. By the way I like how the person who created the post changed the name. Now that you already got all the attention you might as well.. especially after I pointed out how you belittled everyone else's opinion on the debate with the title. Nice. ;)

homah
01-05-2008, 11:18 PM
Yep, paranoid to think that anyone would go through the trouble to use a yahoo account to sign up to a public forum and mess with people.

The paranoia is in thinking that EVERYONE who posts a dissenting opinion is a troll. How many times do we have to say the same thing?

knappz
01-05-2008, 11:18 PM
After Iowa jolted me to the reality that Ron Paul may not win I decided to take a good look at why he's not polling higher and getting more respect. Tonight's debate was very telling.

First of all, RP needs to be more assertive. All the other candidates were fighting for airtime and getting their points across. This makes them look like strong leaders. RP was getting cut-off from the others and conceding to them. He wasn't being forceful enough to be heard. I know that most of you will say it's because he's too polite blah blah blah, but if you want to get the message across you have to speak up! When you let others have the last word every time it weakens your position.

When he did have time to speak, his message wasn't clear or simple. I have studied economics and monetary policy and trust me the average person hates that stuff. Even when they hear it they tune it out like most of my classmates who were forced to take macroeconomics. He needs to simplify the message and hit home points that will stick in people's minds. Also, his messages were too short, he had plenty of time to talk but he would only talk for 30 seconds. It was kind of akward because the moderator was expecting more but RP was done.

Next, he stumbled a lot of his sentences. It was hard to listen to him because he made too many mistakes (maybe he wasn't feeling well). Maybe he needs a speech coach to help me get rid of the fillers (ahhhh's, ummmm's, etc.). Also his posture needs to improve and he needs to stop fiddling with the pen. COMMUNICATION IS 80% BODY LANGUAGE.

Finally I can't recall any messages of hope from him tonight!! It's great he's giving analysis on why things are happening (i.e. foreign policy), but where are the solutions? If I remember the final question was about gas prices or something, and he's talking about how gas has stayed in terms of gold, and it's the dollar that's losing value, that's all well and good, but what are you going to do about it? He didn't mention anything about a solution or a message of hope.

So to sum it up, RP needs to be more assertive, better posture, appear more confident, and not screw up his words so much. I know a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm giving an analysis of what I saw tonight. The official campaign needs to look at this and fix it, this isn't some backwater election, it's a national one and they need professionalism.


So who "won"?
Best performance - 9iu11iani - as much as I hate this guy, he's very articulate and they way he laid out his message (tone/content) I can see a lot of sheeple being convinced.

Worst Performance - Thompson - honestly this guy needs to go to a retirement home and sleep the rest of life away. He just comes off as lazy and apathetic.

Most Entertaining - McCain - He got Romney with quite a few zingers.

We need to be real and being critical will only help us improve and increase our chances.

So in conculsion you're looking for a canidate who will pander to the public, speak well with out saying any of great importance, and above all be agressive as possible and assertive as possible so you'll look cool to the football lovein', beer drinkin' population.

Why are you at RPF?

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:18 PM
"Group-think"? ..oh the muthahucking irony... :D

No irony. I watched the fucking debate. I can't understand how anyone in his right mind who watched the other debates could come to the conclusion that this debate was bad.

Oldguard
01-05-2008, 11:19 PM
No, we mean by troll anyone who comes here with bad intentions. We do however have to take an honest look at how our candidate did. Not from the standpoint of being negative or trying to dishearten others but because as his grassroots, we're going to encounter people who did watch the debate and we'll have to counter their objections.

I agree to a large degree about women voters but since you can't change that, the one thing you can do is make HIS message personal FOR THEM. In fact you have focus on what part of his message is going to resonate with different people. For me the whole damn thing is about not following the Constitution, but not everyone I meet sees that as important (yes I do think they're stupid). For them its his foreign policy position. Okay fine, that means as a supporter I need to find the information about our foreign policy that gets buried in the news if its reported at all. How many people here knows how many dictators the USA has supported?

We have to avoid sounding like conspiracy theorists though as that is an instant turnoff.

Hey guy, thanks for your thoughts.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:19 PM
The paranoia is in thinking that EVERYONE who posts a dissenting opinion is a troll. How many times do we have to say the same thing?

Well, thats fine, but I don't think that.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 11:19 PM
The paranoia is in thinking that EVERYONE who posts a dissenting opinion is a troll. How many times do we have to say the same thing?

no doubt.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:20 PM
I don't think you suffer from Ron Paul fever. It's not really a disease you know.

It seems pretty important to defend the boards I've been viewing and posting in for a long time.

Anyone who insinuates that Ron Paul supporters are fanboys does not believe Ron Paul's positions are important enough to distinguish him from the pack, hence doubtfully are you a supporter at all, nor have you been struck by "Ron Paul fever".

Yet I've been a member of this forum since July... well before you (although that doesn't make me anymore a supporter than you). Don't question my loyalty to this candidate. I spend a ton of time lurking these forums and thought these were people I had a lot in common with...

I'm now starting to second guess the mentality and obessive nature of some of these forum members.

Northern Marlin
01-05-2008, 11:20 PM
I was drawn to this topic because I have not viewed the debate. However, I became more interested in the suggestions written by VishIX than reading opinions of Dr. Paul's showing in the debate. I live in Michigan and have contributed only money to the campaign thus far. I recently received an e-mail from the campaign asking me to work to convince other voters to pull the lever for Dr. Paul. My work gives me the opportunity to meet a lot of people and it would not be hard to strike up a discussion many times. But here's the problem I'm facing and maybe Dr. Paul also faces it in these debate formats:

How do you distill the monetary issue facing our nation into simple enough language that the average voter can understand it after decades misinformation by education institutions, the press, and government?

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
Thats a suggestion that has been used before. "Leave the forum so we can take over", you say.


:confused: erm ... sorry to tell you this bu there is a reptillian stood right behind you! :eek:


(I bet you look)

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
Vishx I thank you for your many great ideas about how Ron Paul can improve HIS speech. I also thank you for your genius input on how we are all wrong that Ron Paul won the debate and in reality it was Guiliani. 1 question why are you telling us this and not Ron Paul?
Oh wait I answered that in earlier post.. never mind. Go attack something that WE actually are involved in.. you might get better results. :/

How do you know that I haven't emailed the campaign? (Not that they will get the email considering the volume they must already get).

Why did I post this? Because I want people to be more realistic and not get into groupthink like we did in Iowa. We have to see realistically how Ron Paul can win. If you think the message alone will get us to the Presidency you are sorely mistaken.

The official campaign needs to start stepping up their game. This means getting RP's name in the news (even if they have to create the news). It means spending the millions, photo-ops, all that stuff. I know it's cynical but this is how people remember you.

RP needs to capitalize on every second he has on TV to create a moment, which usually comes during live debates, like when Huckabee shot up. If he can't be assertive or appears weak infront of the other candidates people see that and will not vote for him.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:21 PM
no doubt.

Traitorist, are you mocking us? Common rhetoric is that we are traitors. Glenn Beck insinuated that we are terrorists.

Could you explain who the traitorists are and why you would pick that name for yourself?

familydog
01-05-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm not sure why someone who makes a thread title "the real anaylisis..." would not to expect to be called a troll. I'm not saying I agree with the label, but the title implies others who may think Ron Paul did well are just blinded by love for Paul they couldn't see the truth as the OP. I'm just talking about the thread title here, but you can't put out arrogance, and expect not to get back negativity.

Edit: Apparently the OP realized the arrogance and changed the title. Thanks.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:23 PM
:confused: erm ... sorry to tell you this bu there is a reptillian stood right behind you! :eek:


(I bet you look)

You're equating the belief that there are people who would sign up to a public forum for some fun or business with bad intentions with the belief that reptiles really rule the world.

That is so fair.

The main reason why I think a lot of you are trolls is that you are so often discounting the possibility of trolling. That is something that flies in the face of all my internet experience.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 11:25 PM
i agree that this thread is not only about critiquing the debate performance, but is also a learning lesson in how those in the grassroots take criticism as well. some better than others i see. funny how we are fighting the winds fascism in our own forum, where dissent or criticism is frowned upon by some of these senior members here.

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 11:25 PM
Stop insinuating that there are no trolls here. Trolls are a fact of internet life. To not believe they exist is tantamount to disbelieving the world is round.


Its not ...its an oblate spheroid ;)

pepperpete1
01-05-2008, 11:25 PM
Dr. Paul needs to address the rudeness of the other candidates ridiculing him. We know he was unworthy of such self-demeaning actions, but the main public may not. Next time, he should speak out and tell them that they should afford him the time to speak his message and let the American public decide if he is right or wrong, instead of scoffing him.

They scoffed him and yet took up his beliefs, that he has lived by, as their own.

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Besides taking up SOME of Ron Paul's positions and claiming them as their own they did not succinctly address the solutions they offer to the issues, as some of the democrats did. At some points of the democratic debate, I thought I heard Ron Paul, coming through, loud and clear. Like when Edwards said "I take this fight personally" (Ron Paul is just as devoted personally) and when they were talking about getting out of Iraq, like the main fix needs to be the economy, that they are against the big money lobbyists. This all sounded like echoes of Ron Paul.

The way the other candidates snubbed Dr. Paul just appeared to me to be staged.

I am sure that the good Dr. was disconcerted by this show of disrespect and could be part of the reason he stammered in some of his responses. Besides being talked over and cut short and given condescending looks and snickers.

He may have been tired, and after the gang bashing not quite as quick on his feet.

HE is tough. He'll spring back.

Ron Paul is out there putting in the time and effort, we should do the same.

I am appalled at how many people I talk to on the streets and in my precinct that do not know about him.

So let's not let him down. Let's hit the streets, give out info, give money, plant signs, make phone calls, WHATEVER it takes. Let's give 110%.
Ron Paul is.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:26 PM
In what way is this constructive criticism..? Are you kidding? Telling us how Ron Paul should improve his speech... how does that relate to us at all? It was a senseless post attacking Ron Paul saying he has bad speech and that he lost the debate, simple and clear. Even if Ron Paul doesn't speak well which I completely disagree with there is no way it's constructive to make a post to US the grassroots saying how HE can improve his speech. I've always been for constructive criticism and this definitely is not constructive.. its a baseless attack.

Not everything is black and white as you see it. Try voyaging into the grey matter! He is stating that idiots won't get it! Do you realize how many people have no idea what the Federal Reserve is? What the National ID really is? Know what amnesty is? Or what would happen if we tossed out the IRS? I talk to alot of people and they are as dumb as a stump! The message is strong and WE get it! We need to explain it elementary to the apathetic!
Hell ya Ron Paul spanked all those morons! I know that! You know that! But we need to be asking ourselves...do the sheeple know that? Or do they only know what they have been fed? If you are going to convert sheep to the flock, you need to know how to get your words across so they get it. This is not a troll thread, but a pro-active thread. It has really opened my eyes on how to get the word out to people who may not be as politcally minded as ourselves. Great post!

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:27 PM
Oh tell us what to do!!! How can we make Ron Paul sit up straight? How can we make Ron Paul Tell funny jokes at the debate?


What is there to debate? WE CANT CHANGE RON PAULS PERSONALITY!!!

Fckn idiots

First of all, relax and think calmly so you can understand what I am saying. I know you are emotional right now and want to use names (eg. troll) to vent your frustration.

I am not saying to change Ron Paul's personality... watch this video and tell me Ron Paul can't have more of an impact on a viewer...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

Of course on national TV he would have to tone it down a bit, but RP is VERY witty and can battle when he needs to. This is what's needed when he's being shot down by the Neo-Cons.

At the debate he appeared tired and unenergetic. Ergo, he will be overlooked by Joe Sixpack and MSM. It's not just the message, it's how it's presented (that means tone, posture, timing, etc.)

At the next debate he needs to be less humble and practice his talking points.

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 11:27 PM
Umm, there is a big difference between posting a dissenting opinion and posting something that suggests their opinion is the "REAL ANALYSIS" therefore belittling everyone else's analysis(Like the hundreds who agreed Ron Paul won the debate). All of this troll defending is really getting to me.. why is it so hard to believe people come here with bad intentions. When someone has 30 posts and they are all negative it's just common sense. We troll Huckabee forums constantly.. their is more Ron Paul supporters than Huckabee on them. You think they aren't doing the same? Not to mention who the heck else. Obviously not everyone with different opinion is a troll. Someone with few posts who suggests that they have the "REAL ANALYSIS" and it happens to be 100% opposite of what the majority on Ron Paul Forums thinks could be a "Troll". Not to mention when their attack is used to say Ron Paul lost the debate (This is ridiculous) and then to suggest how Ron Paul can improve on this. If he wants to help Ron Paul with speech he wouldn't be telling us.. and at the same time informing us Guiliani won.. lol Trolling happens.. its the internet it's VERY easy...

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:28 PM
i agree that this thread is not only about critiquing the debate performance, but is also a learning lesson in how those in the grassroots take criticism as well. some better than others i see. funny how we are fighting the winds fascism in our own forum, where dissent or criticism is frowned upon by some of these senior members here.

This is not fascism. I do not want any of you banned.

I just wish you would be honest enough to debate people rationally while letting people know who you really support. You would be in good company here if only that were the case.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:30 PM
I've been following RP since March. I've watched all his Youtube videos and read all up on his policies and followed him daily. Iowa really woke me up from the groupthink everyone is in this forum is involved in. You have to see how to improve his chances from ALL perspectives, not just through the eyes of RP worshipers.

Don't take a holier than thou attitude because you have more posts.

You obviously misunderstood my message. Someone on here mentioned that they don't read anyones posts who have posted less than 100. That particular poster had less than 100 posts and I agreed with him whole heartedly. The moral of the story here, is that you can miss a lot of very good opinions if you limit your options.

skeet
01-05-2008, 11:30 PM
VishIX, I don't think you are a "troll" nor does it matter if your assesment is spot on or not, because most of the things that you are pointing out can't be changed. Ron is who he is - yes he stumbles on words that is how he talks - yes he speaks over the heads of people sometimes- that is what he does. I agree with many of your observations, but they are about style not content. Ron has his style - it is what it is.. we love him anyway. If he had Huck's speaking ability he would be king of the blue haired ladies, but he doesn't.
But what he has that none of the others have is - real ideas.
Our movement is based upon those ideas, not RPs style or any other superficial thing.
On solutions
Ron believes that in order to solve a problem you must first know what it is. The crowd on that stage still do not know what causes most of the problems they discussed.

I have seen Ron in all of the debates, while he had "soundbyte" moments in the past that were noteworthy, generaly he came off better tonight than I have seen him in a while.

Having typed all of that - this topic is pointless - because we can not change any of things you complained about. Nor can Ron because it took him 72 years to develop his personality, so we can take it or leave it. It is about Ideas not personalities.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:31 PM
Dr. Paul needs to address the rudeness of the other candidates ridiculing him. We know he was unworthy of such self-demeaning actions, but the main public may not. Next time, he should speak out and tell them that they should afford him the time to speak his message and let the American public decide if he is right or wrong, instead of scoffing him.

They scoffed him and yet took up his beliefs, that he has lived by, as their own.

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Besides taking up SOME of Ron Paul's positions and claiming them as their own they did not succinctly address the solutions they offer to the issues, as some of the democrats did. At some points of the democratic debate, I thought I heard Ron Paul, coming through, loud and clear. Like when Edwards said "I take this fight personally" (Ron Paul is just as devoted personally) and when they were talking about getting out of Iraq, like the main fix needs to be the economy, that they are against the big money lobbyists. This all sounded like echoes of Ron Paul.

The way the other candidates snubbed Dr. Paul just appeared to me to be staged.

I am sure that the good Dr. was disconcerted by this show of disrespect and could be part of the reason he stammered in some of his responses. Besides being talked over and cut short and given condescending looks and snickers.

He may have been tired, and after the gang bashing not quite as quick on his feet.

HE is tough. He'll spring back.

Ron Paul is out there putting in the time and effort, we should do the same.

I am appalled at how many people I talk to on the streets and in my precinct that do not know about him.

So let's not let him down. Let's hit the streets, give out info, give money, plant signs, make phone calls, WHATEVER it takes. Let's give 110%.
Ron Paul is.

I agree with what you said. I also was not surprised to see the other candidates almost elaborately gang up on him. On the flipside, I thought Dr Paul had a good opportunity to turn these negatives into a positive and he didn't leave a good impression with the average voter. I had a good idea of that because I sat with 4 people watching the debates that didn't know much about the guy.

I guarantee you that if that was Ronald Reagan they were talking to, those 5 bullies would not say another word until they were told to speak. Whether I liked Reagan as a president or not.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:33 PM
I agree with what you said. I also was not surprised to see the other candidates almost elaborately gang up on him. On the flipside, I thought Dr Paul had a good opportunity to turn these negatives into a positive and he didn't leave a good impression with the average voter. I had a good idea of that because I sat with 4 people watching the debates that didn't know much about the guy.

I guarantee you that if that was Ronald Reagan they were talking to, those 5 bullies would not say another word until they were told to speak. Whether I liked Reagan as a president or not.

Reagan lost the first time he ran. Reagan doesn't have a magic silence spell either.

Reagan would have done well, but Ron Paul did great.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:33 PM
This is not fascism. I do not want any of you banned.

I just wish you would be honest enough to debate people rationally while letting people know who you really support. You would be in good company here if only that were the case.

I support Ron Paul. Thanks.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:34 PM
I support Ron Paul. Thanks.

Thats good to hear. I believe you are a troll, but I could always be wrong. Time will tell.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:34 PM
This is not fascism. I do not want any of you banned.

I just wish you would be honest enough to debate people rationally while letting people know who you really support. You would be in good company here if only that were the case.

Evandi I have noticed a lot of your posts insinuating that I am some sort of Guilliani supporter... please take off your tinfoil hat and think rationally. Refrain from calling me a troll just yet because I criticized your god Ron Paul.

I haven't put him on a pedestal like you, I think the message is more important than the man. If you think I am attacking then you have missed the point. I am trying to come up with ways to get more support of Dr. Paul. We on this forum... we know what he stands for and support him 100%. But to get more supporters we have to see how RP can improve!

It's only by getting more supporter that we can win the election. By putting your head in the sand and ignoring all the issues you are setting yourself up for disappointment, like in Iowa.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 11:35 PM
I just wish you would be honest enough to debate people rationally while letting people know who you really support. You would be in good company here if only that were the case.

Well, I support Ron Paul of course. But I agree with some others here, that I got caught up in a group-think mentality, and I am looking to change that, and encourage others to discuss it and other ways we can improve ourselves and learning to change and adapt by also watching and critiquing Ron Paul's performance at the debate. He is after all, the leader of the proverbial crew.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:35 PM
An adult conversation? Wow your a funny. By the way I like how the person who created the post changed the name. Now that you already got all the attention you might as well.. especially after I pointed out how you belittled everyone else's opinion on the debate with the title. Nice. ;)

I didn't write the title dumbass. This isn't my post!:confused:

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:36 PM
I support Ron Paul. Thanks.

Its also rather strange that someone with such a fanboyish name would act like he was all down and depressed about this. Did you watch the other debates?

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:36 PM
Well, I support Ron Paul of course. But I agree with some others here, that I got caught up in a group-think mentality, and I am looking to change that, and encourage others to discuss it and other ways we can improve ourselves and learning to change and adapt by also watching and critiquing Ron Paul's performance at the debate. He is after all, the leader of the proverbial crew.

He's not my leader.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:37 PM
The paranoia is in thinking that EVERYONE who posts a dissenting opinion is a troll. How many times do we have to say the same thing?

NO shit! I'm having flash backs of George Bush declaring, "If your not with us, your against us"

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 11:37 PM
Evandi I have noticed a lot of your posts insinuating that I am some sort of Guilliani supporter... please take off your tinfoil hat and think rationally. Refrain from calling me a troll just yet because I criticized your god Ron Paul.

I haven't put him on a pedestal like you, I think the message is more important than the man. If you think I am attacking then you have missed the point. I am trying to come up with ways to get more support of Dr. Paul. We on this forum... we know what he stands for and support him 100%. But to get more supporters we have to see how RP can improve!

It's only by getting more supporter that we can win the election. By putting your head in the sand and ignoring all the issues you are setting yourself up for disappointment, like in Iowa.

Wait your: "trying to come up with ways to get more support of Dr. Paul." Okay I get it.. so why did you make this thread then? You posted maybe 10 times already I haven't seen any of these ideas? Only attacks on Ron Paul's speaking abilities which we have no impact on and never will. Do you really have some ideas.. because I'm open to hear them. Anything to help Ron Paul win.. as he did in the debate.. ya know? ;)

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:37 PM
An adult conversation? Wow your a funny. By the way I like how the person who created the post changed the name. Now that you already got all the attention you might as well.. especially after I pointed out how you belittled everyone else's opinion on the debate with the title. Nice. ;)

I didn't change the name, and frankly I am not impressed that the mods changed the name... and they talk about MSM censorship and the like. Wow RP fanboys really are hypocrites.

the Original title was

"A REAL analysis on RP... not blind fanboyism" something like that i can't remember.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:37 PM
NO shit! I'm having flash backs of George Bush declaring, "If your not with us, your against us"

Then you are nutty, and your brain works in mysterious ways.

traitorist
01-05-2008, 11:37 PM
NO shit! I'm having flash backs of George Bush declaring, "If your not with us, your against us"

haha, no chit.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:38 PM
Thats good to hear. I believe you are a troll, but I could always be wrong. Time will tell.

You believe I am a troll? I'm starting to think you don't even know what a troll is. I've been a member of this forum since July of 2007 and a Ron Paul supporter the day I saw the announcement he was running for president... The day I decided to look into who this guy was and what he spoke about.

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 11:39 PM
You're equating the belief that there are people who would sign up to a public forum for some fun or business with bad intentions with the belief that reptiles really rule the world.

That is so fair.

The main reason why I think a lot of you are trolls is that you are so often discounting the possibility of trolling. That is something that flies in the face of all my internet experience.


No, I think its very fair. Let me remind you...

I said why dont you ignore these type of posts and instead turn of the computer and do something worthwhile for the campaign?

you replied
Thats a suggestion that has been used before. "Leave the forum so we can take over", you say.


I stand my my Reptillian statement. Infact the Reptillian has just infected you with scientology :eek:


Grow up, I know internet "trolls" exist ... the OP just wasnt trollish.

.

faisal
01-05-2008, 11:40 PM
He did pretty good. He was the only person who got claps when he made fun of the other candidates by saying that they did only did "lip service" for the constitution. That they were all talk no action. ALSO, HE GOT A VERY GOOD PIECE OF COVERAGE WHEN THE MODERATOR SAID HE COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING THAT CHANGED IN HIS PRINCIPLES OTHER THAN HIS CHANGE IN PARTY. THE MODERATOR FOUND DIRT ON EVERYONE EXCEPT RON PAUL. THIS IS GOOD, ESPECIALLY SINCE MCCAIN IS GETTING SUPPORT BECAUSE OF HIS "INTEGRITY" and "HONESTY."

JMO
01-05-2008, 11:41 PM
I saw it the opposite.

My analysis. Short

Paul. I think he did very well and got his points across, hopefully enough republicans that share his anti war sentiment watched this debate. My biggest fear with Paul is the same that happened in Wyoming, and that is too many republicans beat the drums of war, and I feel that will be the republicans downfall this election. Somehow someway we must drive that across to potential voters, that a vote for a pro war republican candidate is a vote for a democratic president. I really feel Paul's negative is he isn't aggressive in speech, when someone speaks over him he stops talking, unlike Romney who raises his voice and gets his point across. Multiple times Paul talked on foreign affairs and his point got drowned out by more forceful speaking candidates.

Thompson. I thought he did the best. He didn't stutter, he answered the hard questions and didn't waiver on his stances. Like him or not he is 1 candidate you can say sticks to his guns and doesn't pander like the other candidates. I felt Thompson spoke just enough to matter and he confronted Rudy and Mccain on immigration and both of those guys could not respond, they just came up with the same rhetoric. Where Thompson won was he made people think of the negatives of Mccain and Rudy without looking like he was attacking them. Thompson was very sly in this debate.

Mccain. I thought his CHANGE joke towards Romney and how he laughed at his own joke shows exactly why so many people dislike this guy. I think of a weasel when I see and hear Mccain talk. i think he faired the worst of all candidates and as time goes on people will see him as a snake.

Romney. I thought he did well considering he was the focus of most of the attacks, at one point I thought he was going to punch huckabee.. I really think he is the odds on favorite to win the republican nomination and I think inside all the other republican candidates feel that way. While I am not a Romney fan I would prefer him over Rudy and Mccain.

Huckabee. This guy played it as smart as anyone, he is very smart politician and it elevated him to leader status. Huckabee views has more holes than swiss cheese, and now he is considered the front runner by many he did exactly what a candidate with so many holes should do, he said nothing. Huckabee only spoke when he had to, he let all the other candidates argue and he just sat there and listen, once again people will walk away not knowing all the negatives of Huckabee. I think Huckabee had less face time than Paul.

Giuliani. I think he was kind of neutral in this debate. I felt he stuck with his message, I just don't feel its a strong message and no one really believes him. He will have his niche, but in general his whole thing is attack terrorists and thats it, and everyone else but Ron Paul feels that way but the others have more to them than attack terrorists. I also think Fred put him in his place on amnesty.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:41 PM
No, I think its very fair. Let me remind you...

I said why dont you ignore these type of posts and instead turn of the computer and do something worthwhile for the campaign?

you replied


I stand my my Reptillian statement. Infact the Reptillian has just infected you with scientology :eek:


Grow up, I know internet "trolls" exist ... the OP just wasnt trollish.

.

Grow up, believing in trolls isn't in the same league as believeing in Reptilian overlords.

You could do the same. Ignore my responses and try your best out on the street to get him elected. Stop posting if you feel such advice benefits me it would benefit you equally.

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 11:41 PM
He did pretty good. He was the only person who got claps when he made fun of the other candidates by saying that they did only did "lip service" for the constitution. That they were all talk no action. ALSO, HE GOT A VERY GOOD PIECE OF COVERAGE WHEN THE MODERATOR SAID HE COULD NOT FIND ANYTHING THAT CHANGED IN HIS PRINCIPLES OTHER THAN HIS CHANGE IN PARTY. THE MODERATOR FOUND DIRT ON EVERYONE EXCEPT RON PAUL. THIS IS GOOD, ESPECIALLY SINCE MCCAIN IS GETTING SUPPORT BECAUSE OF HIS "INTEGRITY" and "HONESTY."

Yeah totally true. I noticed also he had the ONLY applause ;)

ultimaonliner
01-05-2008, 11:41 PM
I agree with most of the OP's points. I am also surprised by all those who responded to him by calling him a troll.

RP's scholarly and academic style of discussion appeals to me, but I know that it is not necessarily the best way to win public opinion en masse. YouTube has been great for RP as many are able to view clips of RP speaking almost in isolation, but when the public sees and hears him in competition with others during the debate, people take notice of the manner in which he interacts with his competitors.

If the OP were truly a "troll", then I wish we had more of them.




After Iowa jolted me to the reality that Ron Paul may not win I decided to take a good look at why he's not polling higher and getting more respect. Tonight's debate was very telling.

First of all, RP needs to be more assertive. All the other candidates were fighting for airtime and getting their points across. This makes them look like strong leaders. RP was getting cut-off from the others and conceding to them. He wasn't being forceful enough to be heard. I know that most of you will say it's because he's too polite blah blah blah, but if you want to get the message across you have to speak up! When you let others have the last word every time it weakens your position.

When he did have time to speak, his message wasn't clear or simple. I have studied economics and monetary policy and trust me the average person hates that stuff. Even when they hear it they tune it out like most of my classmates who were forced to take macroeconomics. He needs to simplify the message and hit home points that will stick in people's minds. Also, his messages were too short, he had plenty of time to talk but he would only talk for 30 seconds. It was kind of akward because the moderator was expecting more but RP was done.

Next, he stumbled a lot of his sentences. It was hard to listen to him because he made too many mistakes (maybe he wasn't feeling well). Maybe he needs a speech coach to help me get rid of the fillers (ahhhh's, ummmm's, etc.). Also his posture needs to improve and he needs to stop fiddling with the pen. COMMUNICATION IS 80% BODY LANGUAGE.

Finally I can't recall any messages of hope from him tonight!! It's great he's giving analysis on why things are happening (i.e. foreign policy), but where are the solutions? If I remember the final question was about gas prices or something, and he's talking about how gas has stayed in terms of gold, and it's the dollar that's losing value, that's all well and good, but what are you going to do about it? He didn't mention anything about a solution or a message of hope.

So to sum it up, RP needs to be more assertive, better posture, appear more confident, and not screw up his words so much. I know a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm giving an analysis of what I saw tonight. The official campaign needs to look at this and fix it, this isn't some backwater election, it's a national one and they need professionalism.


So who "won"?
Best performance - 9iu11iani - as much as I hate this guy, he's very articulate and they way he laid out his message (tone/content) I can see a lot of sheeple being convinced.

Worst Performance - Thompson - honestly this guy needs to go to a retirement home and sleep the rest of life away. He just comes off as lazy and apathetic.

Most Entertaining - McCain - He got Romney with quite a few zingers.

We need to be real and being critical will only help us improve and increase our chances.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:42 PM
Having typed all of that - this topic is pointless - because we can not change any of things you complained about. Nor can Ron because it took him 72 years to develop his personality, so we can take it or leave it. It is about Ideas not personalities.

It's not pointless. And it's not his personality I have an issue with at all! He needs to rehearse his talking points and simplify the message. This will cause him to stumble less while talking. I think he has a very strong personality, he just needs to be more assertive which we know he can be.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

But not as much as in that clip, cuz he will be on national television.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:45 PM
It's not pointless. And it's not his personality I have an issue with at all! He needs to rehearse his talking points and simplify the message. This will cause him to stumble less while talking. I think he has a very strong personality, he just needs to be more assertive which we know he can be.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

But not as much as in that clip, cuz he will be on national television.

Simply compare him to himself in other debates. He won the last fox news text message debate poll by a huge margin.

The kind of changes the OP is advocating are trollish in their nature because Ron Paul did well compared to every other time I've seen him.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:46 PM
Umm, there is a big difference between posting a dissenting opinion and posting something that suggests their opinion is the "REAL ANALYSIS" therefore belittling everyone else's analysis(Like the hundreds who agreed Ron Paul won the debate). All of this troll defending is really getting to me.. why is it so hard to believe people come here with bad intentions. When someone has 30 posts and they are all negative it's just common sense. We troll Huckabee forums constantly.. their is more Ron Paul supporters than Huckabee on them. You think they aren't doing the same? Not to mention who the heck else. Obviously not everyone with different opinion is a troll. Someone with few posts who suggests that they have the "REAL ANALYSIS" and it happens to be 100% opposite of what the majority on Ron Paul Forums thinks could be a "Troll". Not to mention when their attack is used to say Ron Paul lost the debate (This is ridiculous) and then to suggest how Ron Paul can improve on this. If he wants to help Ron Paul with speech he wouldn't be telling us.. and at the same time informing us Guiliani won.. lol Trolling happens.. its the internet it's VERY easy...

Why are you so paranoid? What could a "troll" possibly take back to their cave from this post? Are we revealing some secret information here? If anything, this poll brough some issue to light as to what non-Ron Paul people see. What we all should be watching for if we are to educate the masses.

Drknows
01-05-2008, 11:46 PM
First of all, relax and think calmly so you can understand what I am saying. I know you are emotional right now and want to use names (eg. troll) to vent your frustration.

I am not saying to change Ron Paul's personality... watch this video and tell me Ron Paul can't have more of an impact on a viewer...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

Of course on national TV he would have to tone it down a bit, but RP is VERY witty and can battle when he needs to. This is what's needed when he's being shot down by the Neo-Cons.

At the debate he appeared tired and unenergetic. Ergo, he will be overlooked by Joe Sixpack and MSM. It's not just the message, it's how it's presented (that means tone, posture, timing, etc.)

At the next debate he needs to be less humble and practice his talking points.

Rudy dresses in drag, Huckabee has crazy eyes, Mitt looks like a cars salesman, Mccain 100 years, Fred says Um.


Besides It was never about Ron Paul its about his message, Even if Ron Paul Loses because he wore the wrong shoes on a particular day YOU THINK WE WILL PACK UP OUR SIGNS AND GO HOME? Let Ron Paul do his thing.

This dont stop with Ron Paul he revived the founders message and now there are thousands of us willing to carry the torch after he is gone. We have guys running for office on his same platform. So even if you think Rudy did better it means jack shit long term. Because Rudys message has a shelf life.

If average joe sixpack dont get the message now he will later, Maybe 4, 8 12 years from now, But he will.


Ron Paul has his place in history win or lose.

NerveShocker
01-05-2008, 11:46 PM
It's not pointless. And it's not his personality I have an issue with at all! He needs to rehearse his talking points and simplify the message. This will cause him to stumble less while talking. I think he has a very strong personality, he just needs to be more assertive which we know he can be.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

But not as much as in that clip, cuz he will be on national television.

Wow you really miss the point don't you. He is saying you and me and everyone in here are not going to change Ron Paul's personality or talking points.. EVER. Attack his personality all you want, say he lost the debate, and tell us Giuliani won.. But he will NOT change for you or anyone else for that matter. You posting what he needs to do to improve is useless.. and the majority disagree with you anyways (Look at the poll on how did at the debate).

LibertyManiacs.com
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Dr. Paul needs to continue to remind (or educate for the 1st time) people of his bona fides as an OBGYN and n author of multiple books on economics.

We as strong supporters can appreciate his straightforwardness on issues of foreign policy and monetary policy, but the less educated on the philosophy of freedom need more to hold onto.

Dr. Paul should be marketing himself as a doctor more, as medical doctors are more trusted than just about any other profession. He needs to expand and elaborate on why freedom matters more to the average person. And he needs to, much more, speak directly to the average person who is afraid of what the future brings.

Dr. Paul's freedom message is inherently full of hope. People want the opportunity to aspire to greatness. But freedom--real freedom--is something that many people are not acquainted with anymore. Dr. Paul has an obligation to demand to be heard. He needs to be told to stop talking like the other candidate. He is our voice.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
It's not pointless. And it's not his personality I have an issue with at all! He needs to rehearse his talking points and simplify the message. This will cause him to stumble less while talking. I think he has a very strong personality, he just needs to be more assertive which we know he can be.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo

But not as much as in that clip, cuz he will be on national television.

I agree that it's not pointless. We are talking about leading an entire nation. His message is pinpoint perfect. His delivery is somewhat lacking. To me, it doesn't matter because at the end of the day I'm still a supporter.

If I'm trailing a close football game at halftime, I need a coach that is going to deliver a speech that will fire me up for the second half. Changing the X's and O's is nice, but there is more than just that.

ultimaonliner
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Simply compare him to himself in other debates. He won the last fox news text message debate poll by a huge margin.

The kind of changes the OP is advocating are trollish in their nature because Ron Paul did well compared to every other time I've seen him.


I think the OP's points are valid if we are to no longer be content with winning just on-line polls or internet polls. To reach out to the general public requires focus on different aspects of the campaign. Unfortunately, this means focusing on matters which most intelligent people dislike (i.e. body language, tone of voice, "likability, humor, etc.)

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Why are you so paranoid? What could a "troll" possibly take back to their cave from this post? Are we revealing some secret information here? If anything, this poll brough some issue to light as to what non-Ron Paul people see. What we all should be watching for if we are to educate the masses.

If the issues "brought to light" are really false issues, then it isn't helping. Being extremely negative when it isn't justified is very very trollish. This debate was awesome.

Can you please tell me what debate he did better in.

Gimme Some Truth
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Grow up, believing in trolls isn't in the same league as believeing in Reptilian overlords.

You could do the same. Ignore my responses and try your best out on the street to get him elected. Stop posting if you feel such advice benefits me it would benefit you equally.

Ok, Im starting to wonder about your IQ ..or age.

Lets get this straight ... you are telling me you wont campaign for Ron Paul because you are scared of the forum being taken over by trolls.

I joke about the "reptillian overlords" because you seem like an overly paranoid person.

Capeesh? :)

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:48 PM
Well, I support Ron Paul of course. But I agree with some others here, that I got caught up in a group-think mentality, and I am looking to change that, and encourage others to discuss it and other ways we can improve ourselves and learning to change and adapt by also watching and critiquing Ron Paul's performance at the debate. He is after all, the leader of the proverbial crew.

+1000

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:49 PM
I think the OP's points are valid if we are to no longer be content with winning just on-line polls or internet polls. To reach out to the general public requires focus on different aspects of the campaign. Unfortunately, this means focusing on matters which most intelligent people dislike (i.e. body language, tone of voice, "likability, humor, etc.)

Ah, you must be a huckabee supporter then. Huckabee has oodles of that.

No, I don't think you are right about this. I think if he were to focus on these "different issues" he would neglect what makes him popular.

Feelgood
01-05-2008, 11:50 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/018292.html

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:52 PM
Ok, Im starting to wonder about your IQ ..or age.

Lets get this straight ... you are telling me you wont campaign for Ron Paul because you are scared of the forum being taken over by trolls.

I joke about the "reptillian overlords" because you seem like an overly paranoid person.

Capeesh? :)

I just asked you why you don't take your own advice. You really could do that. You know umm you are a troll because you are asking me to go out at this time of day and do what? I have no idea. And then you don't even consider doing late night campaigning as well? I can't blame you for that. THAT WOULD BE FUCKING RETARDED.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:52 PM
Simply compare him to himself in other debates. He won the last fox news text message debate poll by a huge margin.

The kind of changes the OP is advocating are trollish in their nature because Ron Paul did well compared to every other time I've seen him.

WOW HE WON THE TEXT MSG POLL! That really turned out the vote in Iowa... we need to get real and start pushing our National numbers up! I think in NH he will get 13-15%, but if he had done better tonite he could have gotten 18% or more.

I know what people will say after NH is done... how great 13-15% is... but think of how much better 18% would be!

We need to get serious people and let the campaign know that changes need to be implemented.

ultimaonliner
01-05-2008, 11:53 PM
I'm starting to think you are either very young, paranoid, or you suffer from a personality disorder.

Accusing me now of being a Huckabee supporter is your response?

I don't think the OP is a troll, but I think you've proven yourself to be incapable of rational discussion.


Ah, you must be a huckabee supporter then. Huckabee has oodles of that.

No, I don't think you are right about this. I think if he were to focus on these "different issues" he would neglect what makes him popular.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:54 PM
WOW HE WON THE TEXT MSG POLL! That really turned out the vote in Iowa... we need to get real and start pushing our National numbers up! I think in NH he will get 13-15%, but if he had done better tonite he could have gotten 18% or more.

I know what people will say after NH is done... how great 13-15% is... but think of how much better 18% would be!

We need to get serious people and let the campaign know that changes need to be implemented.

It wasn't an Iowa only poll, troll. It was a poll of people who actually watched the debate.

dawnbt
01-05-2008, 11:54 PM
Then you are nutty, and your brain works in mysterious ways.

How is that? What's the difference in mentality between Bush's rhetoric and the "If you don't agree with me...your a troll"? Pretty close minded to me. I have the ability to see both points in a conversation. Not seein how that is nutty. Not being open to other people's opinions only stunt your mental growth.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:55 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/018292.html

Good for Lew. He understands the message so he should think that way. That's the way I feel as well. That doesn't change the fact that regular out of touch Joe Blow Americans see something different. I know because I sat with 4 of them. The OP provided a reason why and got attacked by people that should have the mental capabilities to be rational. That's what is now starting to bother me. How a RP supporter could be so closed-minded.

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:55 PM
Wow you really miss the point don't you. He is saying you and me and everyone in here are not going to change Ron Paul's personality or talking points.. EVER. Attack his personality all you want, say he lost the debate, and tell us Giuliani won.. But he will NOT change for you or anyone else for that matter. You posting what he needs to do to improve is useless.. and the majority disagree with you anyways (Look at the poll on how did at the debate).

LOL! a poll on a Ron Paul forum where the majority are in group think over how well Ron Paul is doing. That's REAL accurate and representative of the greater electorate...

BTW I never said he needs to change his personality or that he lost the debate, please fully read my posts. I know you are emotional and irrational right now.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:55 PM
I'm starting to think you are either very young, paranoid, or you suffer from a personality disorder.

Accusing me now of being a Huckabee supporter is your response?

I don't think the OP is a troll, but I think you've proven yourself to be incapable of rational discussion.

It is not irrational to make accusations. It is not logical to dismiss trolling and fake support.

parke
01-05-2008, 11:56 PM
No need for calling people trolls. It was an honest opinion.

Im no troll, but RP needs to be more assertive and find a way to question his opponents and back them into a corner for an answer. A couple of good zingers would push him to the top of the pack.

Like, when Rudy brought up terrorism going back to the sixties.. he should have came back with our involvement overthrowing Mogadesh (sp) in 53.

LibertyManiacs.com
01-05-2008, 11:56 PM
But he will NOT change for you or anyone else for that matter. You posting what he needs to do to improve is useless.. and the majority disagree with you anyways (Look at the poll on how did at the debate).


I don't think it's a matter of changing who he is, or the overall message in any way. Dr. Paul is a charming guy, he comes off quite well. However there is always room for improvement. I think Dr. Paul would be the 1st to agree with that statement. Constructive critisim is essential to improvement.

It is an amazingly difficult task to communicate effectively at this level. Especially when your message is considered a threat to all competitors. Paul is doing great, and as a long time follower and supporter, I've seen considerable growth in his style of delivery. He simply can do better. It's in him.

I think we have yet to see him at his best.

evandi
01-05-2008, 11:57 PM
How is that? What's the difference in mentality between Bush's rhetoric and the "If you don't agree with me...your a troll"? Pretty close minded to me. I have the ability to see both points in a conversation. Not seein how that is nutty. Not being open to other people's opinions only stunt your mental growth.

Because, I'm not saying that everyone who disagrees with me is a troll, I'm saying most of the people disagreeing with me are probably trolls. Not because they disagree with me.

Furthermore, I'm not trying to get you banned or have others attack you.

LFOD
01-05-2008, 11:57 PM
The people who think RP did poorly are wrong. This will help. He came across as a man who deeply understands the most serious problems we are facing today.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-05-2008, 11:58 PM
I'm starting to think you are either very young, paranoid, or you suffer from a personality disorder.

Accusing me now of being a Huckabee supporter is your response?

I don't think the OP is a troll, but I think you've proven yourself to be incapable of rational discussion.

Ultima... we know your true motive. You either support Lord British or Lord Blackthorn. It's definitely not Ron Paul. REVEAL YOURSELF!

VishIX
01-05-2008, 11:59 PM
No need for calling people trolls. It was an honest opinion.

Im no troll, but RP needs to be more assertive and find a way to question his opponents and back them into a corner for an answer. A couple of good zingers would push him to the top of the pack.

Like, when Rudy brought up terrorism going back to the sixties.. he should have came back with our involvement overthrowing Mogadesh (sp) in 53.


Exactly, he needs to speak up and let people know he's there and exude an aura of leadership. He should have been controlling the conversation instead of being backed into a corner by all 5. Once you let people know you can't be pushed around they will respect you.

ultimaonliner
01-06-2008, 12:00 AM
Ultima... we know your true motive. You either support Lord British or Lord Blackthorn. It's definitely not Ron Paul. REVEAL YOURSELF!

LOL!

You got me! I was thinking of making a Ron Paul guild though in Ultima Online. I haven't played much recently, but I still have 4 accounts.

traitorist
01-06-2008, 12:00 AM
I think we have yet to see him at his best.

i've alluded to this. i've asked myself...is he just waiting in the weeds to pounce?

or not?

time will tell i guess.

therealjjj77
01-06-2008, 12:00 AM
The original poster had some very valid points.

I have been in sales for over 4 years and I also pay close attention to these things. Though you may have been persuaded and look past the idiosyncrasies of Ron Paul, someone really seeing him for the first time has no persuasion one way or the other. Being in sales, it took me several weeks to refine my body language, vocal tones, speech inflections; so that people could hear what I was saying.

The truth is that people judge you 60% based on appearance, 30% based on how you say things, and 10% on what you actually say.

Appearance has a lot to do with how you hold yourself. Are your shoulders slouched? Is your your abdomen firm? Is your chest high?

How you sound is greatly influenced by whether you are using your diaphragm to speak, and if you keep the air flowing through your words. Also it is important to say more with less words and keep your words per minute at a certain speed depending on the audience. It is important to slow your speech down when you want to provide emphasis on something.

Ron Paul certainly has the content in what he says, the other 90% is so easy to fix and I wish I could talk with him on the phone just once to help him get there.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-06-2008, 12:02 AM
Exactly, he needs to speak up and let people know he's there and exude an aura of leadership. He should have been controlling the conversation instead of being backed into a corner by all 5. Once you let people know you can't be pushed around they will respect you.

Thank you! According to many others though, that character trait isn't important. In my opinion, it's a shame because if Ron did possess those abilities he'd basically walk into the oval office... tomorrow.

Hook
01-06-2008, 12:02 AM
I just wish Dr. Paul had run 10 years ago when he was a bit quicker on his feet and more aggressive.

evandi
01-06-2008, 12:02 AM
Exactly, he needs to speak up and let people know he's there and exude an aura of leadership. He should have been controlling the conversation instead of being backed into a corner by all 5. Once you let people know you can't be pushed around they will respect you.

Thats easy to say. Every other candidate has messed up in the debate though.

Saying someone has to control the conversation is basically like saying Ron Paul should get all the votes.

You can say it, but it is not always possible to "control" a conversation, no matter what you try. People do not have magic buttons that silence them, although Ron Paul did silence them a few times with some unexpectedly good answers.

Just compare him to any other debate. I can't believe people like you could think such a thing.

Gimme Some Truth
01-06-2008, 12:02 AM
I just asked you why you don't take your own advice. You really could do that. You know umm you are a troll because you are asking me to go out at this time of day and do what? I have no idea. And then you don't even consider doing late night campaigning as well? I can't blame you for that. THAT WOULD BE FUCKING RETARDED.

ok, you are bypassing the whole point again.

Im not gonna explain again why I brought up the reptillian thing. Its self evident if you look at your post


Thats a suggestion that has been used before. "Leave the forum so we can take over", you say.


Can someone point me towards the ignore button (if there is one) please so I dont accidentally read anymore of this kid's insane, paranoid , pubescent fueled, emotional outbursts again? ...pretty please :p


.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-06-2008, 12:03 AM
LOL!

You got me! I was thinking of making a Ron Paul guild though in Ultima Online. I haven't played much recently, but I still have 4 accounts.

I played UO the year it came out ('96 if I can remember) up until 2000 or so and played a few years ago on UO GAMERS. It's just a waste of time... a bad addiction. A fun one none-the-less!

LFOD
01-06-2008, 12:05 AM
The original poster had some very valid points.

I have been in sales for over 4 years and I also pay close attention to these things. Though you may have been persuaded and look past the idiosyncrasies of Ron Paul, someone really seeing him for the first time has no persuasion one way or the other. Being in sales, it took me several weeks to refine my body language, vocal tones, speech inflections; so that people could hear what I was saying.

The truth is that people judge you 60% based on appearance, 30% based on how you say things, and 10% on what you actually say.

Appearance has a lot to do with how you hold yourself. Are your shoulders slouched? Is your your abdomen firm? Is your chest high?

How you sound is greatly influenced by whether you are using your diaphragm to speak, and if you keep the air flowing through your words. Also it is important to say more with less words and keep your words per minute at a certain speed depending on the audience. It is important to slow your speech down when you want to provide emphasis on something.

Ron Paul certainly has the content in what he says, the other 90% is so easy to fix and I wish I could talk with him on the phone just once to help him get there.

Ron Paul is not going to win the election with his diaphragm.

He's going to win it with his heart, and his head.

Do try to get that into yours.

evandi
01-06-2008, 12:06 AM
ok, you are bypassing the whole point again.

Im not gonna explain again why I brought up the reptillian thing. Its self evident if you look at your post




Can someone point me towards the ignore button (if there is one) please so I dont accidentally read anymore of this kid's insane, paranoid , pubescent fueled, emotional outbursts again? ...pretty please :p


.

Now you are trying to get people to ignore me? No, please explain why the "reptilian thing" was brought up, and why you feel you can't answer my points without labelling me.

ultimaonliner
01-06-2008, 12:06 AM
I played UO the year it came out ('96 if I can remember) up until 2000 or so and played a few years ago on UO GAMERS. It's just a waste of time... a bad addiction. A fun one none-the-less!

I wish I had played during those great times. I played the non-online Ultimas since Ultima II (1979), but only started UO about 5 years ago. It's definitely a way to kill time!

But nowadays, I focus on my career, wife, new baby, and of course, Ron Paul :)

dawnbt
01-06-2008, 12:06 AM
If the issues "brought to light" are really false issues, then it isn't helping. Being extremely negative when it isn't justified is very very trollish. This debate was awesome.

Can you please tell me what debate he did better in.

I, as a supporter, believe he did great! I was telling myself thoughout the entire debate that these questions were written just for Ron! I knew he would nail them and he did! The other's looked like idiots squabbling back and forth. When Ron got a chance to speak, he nailed it! He even got applause!

The main point that I am taking from the OP is that just because I believe it was the best debate ever, people unfamiliar with a lot of the "big words" used in this debate, may have no idea what he is talking about. Ron Paul is very wise and intelligent, however, most sheep are not. Ron Paul already has the intelligent on his side, and we are not going anywhere. We do need to dumb it down a bit for the uneducated masses that have been fed bullshit for decades. We can't assume everyone is going to walk away and look up "foreign policy" and "Federal Reserve".
When Ron started explaining it as "What if China came over here and told us that they want us to believe what they believe and stared a war with us, what would we do? We would all be up defending our libert..." Brillian! Loved it! I was jumping up and down! Then they cut him off. People understand that! Get's people thinking! I believe that style of debate is what gets to the heart of people.

VishIX
01-06-2008, 12:07 AM
Thats easy to say. Every other candidate has messed up in the debate though.

Saying someone has to control the conversation is basically like saying Ron Paul should get all the votes.

You can say it, but it is not always possible to "control" a conversation, no matter what you try. People do not have magic buttons that silence them, although Ron Paul did silence them a few times with some unexpectedly good answers.

Just compare him to any other debate. I can't believe people like you could think such a thing.

evandi,

how old are you? It seems to me you are very immature and close-minded. You can't handle criticism and must always resort to name calling instead of intelligent discussion. If you have nothing to offer to this thread please refrain from posting or trolling.

Thank you.

Sey.Naci
01-06-2008, 12:08 AM
Can someone point me towards the ignore buttonClick over the poster's username, select 'Add XXX to your buddy list'. Once the list comes up, in side menu bar select 'Buddy/Ignore Lists' and go on from there.

isufferfromronpaulfever
01-06-2008, 12:09 AM
evandi,

how old are you? It seems to me you are very immature and close-minded. You can't handle criticism and must always resort to name calling instead of intelligent discussion. If you have nothing to offer to this thread please refrain from posting or trolling.

Thank you.

I am curious as well.

evandi
01-06-2008, 12:09 AM
I, as a supporter, believe he did great! I was telling myself thoughout the entire debate that these questions were written just for Ron! I knew he would nail them and he did! The other's looked like idiots squabbling back and forth. When Ron got a chance to speak, he nailed it! He even got applause!

The main point that I am taking from the OP is that just because I believe it was the best debate ever, people unfamiliar with a lot of the "big words" used in this debate, may have no idea what he is talking about. Ron Paul is very wise and intelligent, however, most sheep are not. Ron Paul already has the intelligent on his side, and we are not going anywhere. We do need to dumb it down a bit for the uneducated masses that have been fed bullshit for decades. We can't assume everyone is going to walk away and look up "foreign policy" and "Federal Reserve".
When Ron started explaining it as "What if China came over here and told us that they want us to believe what they believe and stared a war with us, what would we do? We would all be up defending our libert..." Brillian! Loved it! I was jumping up and down! Then they cut him off. People understand that! Get's people thinking! I believe that style of debate is what gets to the heart of people.

Criticism is given and recieved constantly on this board. Being completely negative is not required in order to get someone's attention. Labelling everyone as Fanboys is not required. Saying you have the only analysis and that everyone else is a Fanboy sounds trollish to anyone who is not completely naive.

NerveShocker
01-06-2008, 12:10 AM
Ron Paul did great. Call us "Group thinkers" and try to put it into a negative light? What a joke. We as a group made the Money-bombs successful, got the blimp to fly, and also as a "group" agreed Ron Paul did great at the debate(possibly best ever). Try to divide us and make us think "Group thinking" is bad but your fooling nobody. It's our "Group Thinking" that will be getting Ron Paul elected for your information.

Gimme Some Truth
01-06-2008, 12:10 AM
Like, when Rudy brought up terrorism going back to the sixties.. he should have came back with our involvement overthrowing Mogadesh (sp) in 53.

Aye, I was shocked when Ron didnt come back with the Mossadeq overthrow :(

dawnbt
01-06-2008, 12:11 AM
Because, I'm not saying that everyone who disagrees with me is a troll, I'm saying most of the people disagreeing with me are probably trolls. Not because they disagree with me.

Furthermore, I'm not trying to get you banned or have others attack you.

Well thank you!