Banking hearing RIGHT NOW Wed, 18 Jul 10.30 am

[Bradley in DC]

http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia-live/financialserv/16489/300_financialserv-qwertyuiop_070131.asx

Dr. Paul is certain to attend and question Fed Chairman Bernanke

[Bradley in DC]

Bernanke's written tesimony here

http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/hh/2007/july/testimony.htm

[MsDoodahs]

I hate days when that bald headed moron opens his trap because of what he does to the markets. :eek:

It was funner when Greenie Meanie was up there dueling with RP. lol...

[torchbearer]

I hope Dr. Paul is there.... looks like Bernanke's is bullsh1tting again. "inflation is in check". yeah ok. my cost of living keeps going up... on all fronts.
I hear his voice shaking...

[Original_Intent]

ahhh, now they are going to ignore the effect of food and energy prices on inflation....because using those numbers gives a result that they don't like. (i.e. it shows that there is too much inflation)


Actually I know it is all BS and that is just an excuse to NOT react to rising prices :mad:

and now they are saying that the housing market could REBOUND sharply and cause inflation. Gee, I didn't know the housing market was showing any signs of rebounding....

"prudent loan modifiactions to cause less foreclosures..." LOL the credit noose is about to tighten "to protect consumers from unfair lending practices" - I wonder how long he has to brush his teeth to get the BS taste out of his mouth.

Man, everything they are doing is to protect the POOR consumers from unfair lending practices - it sounds to me like it is to protect the banks from making bad loans, i.e. tighter credit.

[Johnnybags]

2.25 to 2.5 growth, 2.0 to 2.25 inflation? Virtually zero real growth, 13.7(he will not tell you) increase in the money supply? Inflation is running close to 10 percent, we are in an inflation cycle, not growth. I hope someone asks him about the MS growth and real inflation, which is 8 to 10 percent calculated the old way. Fire him and abolish the FED.

[torchbearer]

Sounds like he's talking at the point of a gun. If he doesn't read the script the international bankers have given him... i'm sure he would be sleeping with the fishes.
How can the man live with himself for participating in the destruction of our currency and our country? How much money did he sell his soul for?

[Bradley in DC]

ahhh, now they are going to ignore the effect of food and energy prices on inflation....because using those numbers gives a result that they don't like. (i.e. it shows that there is too much inflation)

Oh come on, you're not one of those fringe conspiracy people who eat and use energy are you? :D

[mikelovesgod]

I'm in the housing business. There are no signs of a rebound at all.

[angelatc]

and now they are saying that the housing market could REBOUND sharply and cause inflation. Gee, I didn't know the housing market was showing any signs of rebounding....
.


I have to say that I've seen noticably less for sale signs around here suddenly. It surprised me, that's for sure.

[Bradley in DC]

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/ospaul071807.pdf

Dr. Paul's Written Statement – 7/17/07
Humphrey Hawkins Prequel Hearing

During the 30th year of the Humphrey-Hawkins hearings, it would be helpful for
Congress to reassess the usefulness of the Humphrey-Hawkins mandate. The dual mandate
calls for full employment and stable prices. Humphrey-Hawkins assumes that the Federal
Reserve has unique insights into the United States economy that no one else possesses, that
the Federal Reserve knows what prices should be and how much unemployment there should
be. Full employment which is brought about through rising inflation will eventually lead to a
stagnant economy which will lead to more unemployment. 30+ years after the stagflation era,
I would hope that Phillips curves are one of those barbarous relics of the past that have been
sent to their graves, along with wage and price controls and bans on the private ownership of
gold.
But what I wish to highlight the most is the most pernicious part of the Humphrey-
Hawkins mandate is the mandate for price stability. This objective overlooks the natural
tendency of prices to fall over time. As new production technologies are brought on line,
factories gear up, economies of scale are reached, and the prices of goods will decrease.
Goods which originally are affordable only by the very rich, over the course of time and
because of the fall in prices will become available to the poor and the middle class, raising the
standard of living of all Americans. 100 years ago a rich person might have driven a car and
a poor person would have walked barefoot. Today a rich person might drive a Lexus, while a
poor person drives a Kia, but they both have cars, and shoes.
Price stability attempts to disadvantage consumers by keeping prices stable, rather
than allowing them to take their natural course of decline. This policy comes from two
misguided notions: that lower prices lead to lower profits, and that lower prices lead to
deflation. In its effort to ensure price stability, the Federal Reserve resorts to inflation
targeting, using the federal funds rate and open market operations to increase the money
supply at an ostensible low rate, introducing a subtle but pernicious inflation into the monetary
system. Inflation benefits the government and the well-off, the first users of the new money,
but harms those who receive the new money last, those who are predominantly poor and
middle class.
But prices do not just apply to goods, they also apply to the price of labor, or wages.
Wage raises are often indexed to government CPI figures, which are notoriously prone to
manipulation. While official government figures show a CPI under 3%, according to the
methods used when CPI was first calculated the current rate of inflation is over 10%. What
this means is that while wages will remain stable in real terms, the price of goods and
services will increase at a faster rate, leading to a decrease in the real standard of living. The
Fed's loose money policy then leads to the lure of easy credit, which will hook more and more
families, who will find themselves falling deeper and deeper into debt to finance their
lifestyles.
Until the Congress realizes that the economy cannot be managed by a group of
economists, no matter how large or how brilliant the group may be, the result will be the
same. Inflation will continue to rise, and the American people will continue to grow poorer.
We would be far better off if the Congress were to reassert its Constitutional authority over the
monetary system, establish a sound currency, and eliminate its meddling in the free market.

[MGS]

That large lady keeps falling asleep :P

[MsDoodahs]

I don't like Barney Frank - but I love the fact that he's ripping into Uncle Ben. :D

And did anyone hear how badly Bennie's voice was quivering when he started to respond to Barney? lol...

[MGS]

I don't like Barney Frank - but I love the fact that he's ripping into Uncle Ben. :D

And did anyone hear how badly Bennie's voice was quivering when he started to respond to Barney? lol...

Yep, its still quivering. Not sure who the guy grillin him is but hes doing well.

[torchbearer]

I've got a college degree and can't find employment.. besides self-employment.
Where are all these skill-labor positions sir? Why is our economy 90% service industry (ie food service)? WHy did I go to college just to wait tables???

I'd lynch this guy if I was in DC.

This gets me angry everytime I listen to these jokers. Our economy is ran by a handful of people... just like the USSR.

[torchbearer]

Is this guy asking for personal investment tips????? grrrrrrrrr

[freelance]

You can still track Helicopter Ben's printing press:

http://www.nowandfutures.com/key_stats.html

It's unofficial, but it's about the best we can do to still track M3.

[Bradley in DC]

I'd lynch this guy if I was in DC.

I've got a room for rent....

[torchbearer]

Now this guy from Texas is basically asking for more regulation of our economy to benefit a specific group of people.

[torchbearer]

I've got a room for rent....

How much?

[Kuldebar]

/sigh

So, now we need the Fed to give us "racial parity".

[torchbearer]

Is Dr. Paul in the room? They keep panning out, but my video is fuzzy, i can't tell.

[Bradley in DC]

Related article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118470713201469384.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us

Subprime Uncertainty Fans Out
Bear's Hedge Funds
Are Basically Worthless;
More Bond Fire Sales
By KATE KELLY , SERENA NG and MICHAEL HUDSON
July 18, 2007
A downturn in bonds tied to subprime mortgages is getting deeper and going global.

Yesterday, Wall Street firm Bear Stearns Cos. said two hedge funds it runs are now worth nearly nothing after a tumultuous June in which Bear had to promise the funds billions in rescue financing after subprime bets went bad.

Meanwhile, banks yesterday circulated at least a dozen lists of subprime-related bonds they planned to hastily sell to investors. Some of the assets were from a fund managed by Basis Capital Funds Management Ltd., a large hedge-fund manager based in Australia, and were put on the block by Citigroup Inc. and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., according to people familiar with the matter.

Basis Yield Alpha Fund last week informed its investors it had lost around 14% in June. Another fund, called Basis Pac-Rim Fund, was down 9.2% that month. Basis said the declines came after bond dealers abruptly marked down the value of the securities, which it said were "otherwise fundamentally sound."

Investors are struggling to place values on mortgage-backed securities tied to subprime home loans. Because some of these instruments aren't actively traded, investors worry that they are holding securities on their books at values that are no longer accurate.

Last week Moody's Investors Service and Standard and Poor's, the two big credit-rating services, knocked down their ratings on hundreds of subprime-related bonds.

Delinquencies and defaults have been rising on subprime mortgages -- which are taken out by borrowers with shaky credit backgrounds. Some of these mortgages were subject to fraudulent loan documentation when they were written.

• The Situation: The shakeout in subprime-mortgage loans continues. Wall Street is trying to quickly sell off bonds tied to the downturn.
• Impact on Investors: So far, the stock market has held up well in the face of the problems, which have hammered sophisticated traders, most notably the Street's Bear Stearns.
• What's Next: How low will the key ABX index, which tracks subprime bonds, go? It hit a new low yesterday.
The problems haven't filtered into the stock market, which hit new records yesterday. But the mortgage-bond market is becoming increasingly filled with uncertainty, and investors show signs of increased aversion to risky corporate bonds, too.

"Right now things are starting to come unglued," said Charles Gradante, co-founder of hedge-fund consultant Hennessee Group.

The net value of assets in Bear's highly indebted fund, High-Grade Structured Credit Strategies Enhanced Leverage Fund, is wiped out, according to people familiar with the matter, who were briefed on the contents of a late-afternoon call with brokers. The net value of assets in its other larger, less-leveraged fund is roughly 9% of the value at the end of March, these people said. The net-asset value represents the value of an investor's holdings after debts have been paid.

The funds invested in mortgage-backed securities and collateralized-debt obligations, which are bundles of bonds. They also made other bets in the mortgage market through different derivatives-investment products.

In March, before their sharp losses, the enhanced leverage fund had $638 million in investor money, while the other fund had $925 million.

Late last month, Bear helped stabilize the less-leveraged fund with a $1.6 billion secured loan; the enhanced fund began trying to unwind its remaining $1.1 billion in debt.

The funds' net values, which took more than two weeks to calculate because of the fluctuating values in the market for risky, or subprime, mortgage securities, came amid another tumultuous day for the broader mortgage market.

The ABX index, which tracks the performance of various classes of subprime-related bonds, hit new lows yesterday. In the past few months, the portions of the index that tracked especially risky mortgage bonds with junk-grade ratings had been falling. But now, the portions of the index that track safer mortgage bonds, with ratings of triple-A or double-A are also falling sharply.

The portion of the index which tracks triple-A subprime debt issued last year has fallen about 5% in the past week. The portion of the index which tracks low-rated triple-B bonds is down more than 50% this year.

Investors have been buzzing for days, trying to explain the latest losses in the ABX index, which signaled a deepening panic in the mortgage market. Several factors have been at play, including the ratings downgrades.

It also could have been related to holders of mortgage- backed securities hedging their positions by making bets against the index. Or it could have been because speculators are betting the subprime woes will worsen.

"The decline in the ABX indexes has been significant, and certainly some people are panicking and shorting it further because many assets they own are going down in value," says Alan Fournier of hedge fund Pennant Capital, which has been betting against the subprime market.

Several traders said Calyon, the investment-bank division of French bank Credit Agricole SA, was active in the market. In a May conference call, bank officials said some of its dealings in collateralized debt obligations -- which are bundles of bonds sometimes holding subprime mortgages -- had "suffered from the crisis" in subprime. It could have been forced to hedge against exposure by taking positions that pushed the index lower.

A Calyon spokeswoman said in a statement that the firm doesn't have any "direct exposure" to subprime home-equity loans, though it is involved in warehousing asset-backed securities that are used for CDO transactions that Calyon arranges.

In the statement, spokeswoman Virginie Ourceyre said the asset-backed securities market "has been volatile since the middle of the first quarter. Since then, Calyon has not originated any new ABS CDO deals." She added that Calyon has been "actively managing its credit- trading books."

Separately, ACA Capital Holdings Inc., a manager of collateralized-debt obligations listed on the New York Stock Exchange, recently saw its shares plunge after it became apparent that many of the debt pools it manages are heavily exposed to subprime assets.

The company, which listed on the New York Stock Exchange last fall, owns small portions of some of the CDOs it manages, but has been hedging its positions by betting on a fall in the ABX index. That has helped reduce its losses somewhat. ACA shares yesterday rebounded $1.56 to $8.15, but are still down 31% from the start of July. They hit a record low of $6.59 Monday.

[MsDoodahs]

I can't get over how stupid people are...

[Bradley in DC]

How much?

$1200/mo + 1/2 gas & electric, but would take less for help with renovations

Oh, and the Paul campaign is (belatedly) hiring:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=87Sn1NQ_2b8MZoIglQ6s6S6A_3d_3d

[LibertyEagle]

Give me a break. Who is this idiot speaking? Does he understand that if you spend more than you bring in, you're in the hole and that printing money out of thin air, compounds the problem?

[LibertyEagle]

Isn't Dr. Paul in attendance???

[Bradley in DC]

The staffer in camera behing Gutierrez used to be the banking staffer for Rep. Sanders when I was the same for Dr. Paul. We worked closely together and he really likes Dr. Paul and has been helpful when our interests overlap. He's a committee staffer now.

[Bradley in DC]

Isn't Dr. Paul in attendance???

Not there, but I'm sure Dr. Paul will attend--he is in government for this! Dems sit to the left as you face them, Republicans to the right, if that helps.

EDIT: wait, no, sorry, the D's control things now, reverse that!

Also there is a side chamber off each side where Members/staffers can relax, meet with constituents, do other business (press calls, etc.) and follow the hearing and appear when their turn comes up.

[Johnnybags]

But the alternative is a devaluation of asset prices, shift in power, and a recession. The boob thinks inflating the middle class out of existence by lowering the standard of living 7 to 10 percent per year is akin to buying time. They will choose inflation every time.

[Bradley in DC]

Yesterday's panel on the same hearing is here:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/ht071707.shtml

archived webcast:
http://financialserv.edgeboss.net/wmedia/financialserv/hearing071707.wvx

Witness List & Prepared Testimony:

James K. Galbraith, Professor, LBJ School of Public Affairs
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/htgalbraith071707.pdf

Benjamin Friedman, Professor, Harvard University
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/htfriedman071707.pdf

Dr. A. H. Meltzer, The Allan H. Meltzer University Professor of Political Economy, Tepper School of Business, Carnegie Mellon University
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/htmeltzer071707.pdf
(Meltzer would be our guy!)

Meltzer's testimony:

Reforming Central Banks




Testimony By
Allan H. Meltzer

The Allan H. Meltzer University Professor of Political
Economy,
Carnegie Mellon University
and
Visiting Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute


To the
House Committee on Financial Services
July 17, 2007



Reforming Central Banks
By Allan H. Meltzer
The Allan H. Meltzer University Professor
Of Political Economy, Carnegie Mellon University and Visiting Scholar at the
American Enterprise Institute

In the past twenty-five years, central banking has been transformed in all
developed countries. Several announce inflation targets and make serious and generally
successful efforts to achieve the targets. The ECB uses judgment about current or recent
data, supplemented by concern about money growth, the “second pillar” of its strategy.
The Federal Reserve continues a discretionary policy.
All of the techniques have been much more successful than previous policies or
methods of operation. Although they differ in their approach, current operations have
two common features. First, central banks are more independent of politics and
government than in the past. This is obvious in Britain or New Zealand where the
meaning of central bank independence and its limits are set out explicitly in an agreement
between the government and the central bank. Second, central banks now give much
more weight to avoiding inflation than in the past.
In the 1960s and 1970s, the mantra preached by central banks told the public that
inflation would start to rise before the economy reached full employment. Price and
wage guidelines were a necessary policy tool to achieve full employment with price
stability or low inflation. Instead of getting lower unemployment and lower inflation,
major countries--Britain and the United States especially—had higher inflation and rising
unemployment.
Even the politicians noticed the failure. More importantly, the voters noticed that
countries like Germany and Switzerland put more effort into controlling inflation and did
not suffer higher average unemployment.
Governments and central banks discarded the old mantra. Guideposts and wage
controls went into the dustbin where they belong. In their place was a new mantra
preaching a very different view.
The new claim is that sustained low inflation or price stability is a necessary
condition for sustained full employment. Free markets work better than controls. The
approximately twenty-five recent years of low inflation have strengthened this belief.
With floating exchange rates and low inflation, Britain and the United States have had
long expansions and relatively mild recessions. The United States is now in a third long
expansion. Aided by more rapid productivity growth, living standards have soared.
Maintaining low inflation has worked extremely well in Britain and the United
States but less well in the European countries that joined the European Central Bank.
Within the ECB the experience of countries like Ireland with pro-growth policies differs
markedly from countries like Germany or Italy that tax and regulate excessively.
Virtually everyone recognizes that in Germany, France, and Italy the required solutions to
current problems are real not monetary and more generally political, not economic.
Central banks in Britain and the United States should not rest on the achievements
of past reforms, important as they are. Both now claim to value transparency and clear
communication, a break from the past secrecy that central bankers once prized. It took
many decades for central bankers to recognize that just as financial markets depend on
them, they depend on financial markets. In principle, interdependence has become
accepted.
Central bankers have not explained an ever present part of the uncertainty that
accompanies all economic change. The duration of any change is often in doubt. A
change may be temporary or persistent. Changes may alter the level or the growth rates.
Usually it takes time to decide the type of change that has occurred.
Inflation occurs when the central bank lets money grow persistently above the
growth rate of real output. The price level rises steadily and continues to rise as long as
the central bank remains on this course. Contrast this inflation with a rise in the price
level that continues for a few months or a year. Money growth is unchanged. The rise in
the price level can be the result of an oil shock, an increase in excise taxes, devaluation of
the currency, and many other one-time changes. As the change spreads through the
economy, the price level rises. The rise is typically spread over time so that the rate of
price increase at first looks very similar to the monetary inflation just discussed. The
difference is that the one-time increase does not persist. Oil prices do not rise from $35
to $70 a barrel this year and to $140 a barrel next year. Central banks must learn to
distinguish these one-time increases from the sustained inflation that they, and only they,
can cause.
Some make the distinction, or appear to, when they describe their role as
preventing the surge in oil prices from increasing the expected rate of inflation. Many
market watchers do not make the distinction, and some official statements are misleading.
Central banks should clarify their role.
Separating one-time changes from persistent changes is a major problem.
Decades ago, in 1948, the late, distinguished economist Jacob Viner wrote to the
President of the New York Federal Reserve to caution him about over-responding to
transitory changes. Viner wrote:
“You certainly have the advantage over me of being closer to the market, but it
may not be an unmixed advantage. The ticker may loom too large in your
perspective and what from the point of view of the national economy are
molehills may ... appear to you as mighty mountains.”
Mistaking one-time price changes for inflation can be costly. An oil price
increase is a tax on consumers and producers. Whether it comes as a restriction of supply
as in the 1970s or mainly an increase in demand, as currently, it is a non-monetary event.
Reducing money growth to role back the effect of the oil price increase is costly. The
first effect is to reduce output or its growth rate. Further, letting the price level rise but
holding the maintained rate of inflation unchanged is a low cost way of reducing real
incomes, a reduction that must be made to pay the oil producers for the real increase in
the cost of their product.
Central bankers and markets must become more familiar with the duration of
changes—whether the change is permanent or temporary. They can not do that if they
adjust policy fully to new information at each meeting.
Central banks must develop and hold to medium-term strategies. One reason that
use of inflation targets has improved policy outcomes is that they encourage attention to
the medium term. Central bank directors have to look ahead and give less attention to
transitory, often random movements.
In recent years, we have had expansions that are longer than average. It is not
chance or accident. It results from better decisions and better policies with more
attention to the medium-term.
Central banks should announce and follow a policy rule that seeks stability over
the medium-term.

[Bob Cochran]

How can the man live with himself for participating in the destruction of our currency and our country? How much money did he sell his soul for?
Billions, I'm sure.

Can you say "secret numbered Swiss bank accounts"?

[Bradley in DC]

US International Reserve Position

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/20077181031711855.htm

[MGS]

Did i just see Mr. Paul?

[Bradley in DC]

Dr. Paul is sitting immediately to the chairman's right.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm ready for Dr. Paul to ask THE question.

[MGS]

I bet Bernanke's heart sank when he entered the room :)

[MsDoodahs]

Dr. Paul is sitting immediately to the chairman's right.

Yep, just spotted him. :)

[Bradley in DC]

I feel so close to you guys, seriously. Often I thought I was the only one...

[MGS]

Whered he go :(

[torchbearer]

$1200/mo + 1/2 gas & electric, but would take less for help with renovations

Oh, and the Paul campaign is (belatedly) hiring:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=87Sn1NQ_2b8MZoIglQ6s6S6A_3d_3d

having trouble with their employment form. it keeps telling me that i haven't answered a certain question when i submit the form, but i've answered the question. its driving my nuts!

[Kuldebar]

I feel so close to you guys, seriously. Often I thought I was the only one...



I was in a daze, movin' in the wrong direction
Feelin' that I'd always be the lonely one
Then I saw your face, on the edge of my horizon
Whisperin' that I wasn't the only one
The lonely one

Once chance intervention, see what it can signify
The slightest misapprehension, baby
And we'd have passed each other by
When I heard your sweet voice callin'
Saw your light come shinin' through
I couldn't stop my heart from turning
Churnin' out my love for you, my love to you


:)

[MGS]

Hes speaking!

[Original_Intent]

Yay Go Rp!

[torchbearer]

oh - he's on

[Bradley in DC]

having trouble with their employment form. it keeps telling me that i haven't answered a certain question when i submit the form, but i've answered the question. its driving my nuts!

For Jobs, Internships & Volunteering in our offices fill out this application form and email your resume to opportunities@ronpaul2008.com

That's all I can tell you

[Bradley in DC]

I hope one of you techically inclined people are YouTubing this!

[Dave]

It' live on CNBC.

[LibertyEagle]

Sic 'em DOC!

[Original_Intent]

I see a lot of faces that are looking like ""OH DAMN THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG"

Ah when you combine corporate saving with household saving we have a net positive saving rate! That is so great to hear the corporations are doing well and able to put money in the bank! Thank you, Mr. Chairman!

[jonahtrainer]

Yay Go Rp!

That guy behind Ron Paul sure looks funny!

[Bradley in DC]

Cmte staffer Joe Pinder behind Dr. Paul. Personally and professionally very nice and helpful with me and Dr. Paul but NOT ideologically sympathetic.

[PatriotOne]

Man that guy sitting behind RP looks like the walking dead!

[Bradley in DC]

Mises on war and capitialism (thanks FFF):

What the incompatibility of war and capitalism really means is that war and high civilization are incompatible. If the efficiency of capitalism is directed by governments toward the output of instruments of destruction, the ingenuity of private business turns out weapons which are powerful enough to destroy everything. What makes war and capitalism incompatible with one another is precisely the unparalleled efficiency of the capitalist mode of production.

— Ludwig von Mises, Human Action [1949]

[LibertyEagle]

Anyone notice that little S.E. grin by Bernanke when he answered Dr. Paul's question?

[torchbearer]

smackdown.

[MsDoodahs]

INFLATION IS A MONETARY PHENOMENON.

That point needs soooooo badly to be driven home.

Americans don't understand it anymore.

They think "inflation" means increased prices.

[Original_Intent]

LOL "with your fingers crossed, I guess" I love RP! :D

[Swmorgan77]

Ron Paul is live on CNBC GRILLING bernake, full media coverage and he is having his questions ANSWERED.

Don't every think this campaign hasn't made a difference. Before, Bernake was just blowing these questions off and ignoring Ron Paul.

I can see the FEAR in Bernake's eyes to have to answer these questions and deal with someone who actually has the knowledge and understanding to not articulate these issues to the American people.

Is someone capturing this?

[PatriotOne]

He just can't answer the tough questions. And yes, I noticed that sly grin on his face.

[torchbearer]

For Jobs, Internships & Volunteering in our offices fill out this application form and email your resume to opportunities@ronpaul2008.com

That's all I can tell you

There is a problem with the form. Might want to let the webmaster know. I've gone back and done it all again.. and still no dice. :( I've got huge campaign experience and political experience... sad i can't get it to the campaign because the form is screwing up. :(

[MGS]

This guys pretty good too.

[IRO-bot]

dang i missed ron paul. Anyone record it?

[torchbearer]

This is what keeps messing up to give you a specific cause:

This question requires an answer.

5. I am interested in the following positions (check all that apply):

xOffice Assistant
Intern/Volunteer
x State Coordinator
x Field Coordinator
Fundraising Assistant
x State/Regional Staff
Legal
x Security
Other (please specify)

[Richie]

dang i missed ron paul. Anyone record it?

+1 :(

[Bradley in DC]

There is a problem with the form. Might want to let the webmaster know. I've gone back and done it all again.. and still no dice. :( I've got huge campaign experience and political experience... sad i can't get it to the campaign because the form is screwing up. :(

Fill out all of the questions and put them in the email with the resume, I guess. Don is the guy.

[LibertyEagle]

INFLATION IS A MONETARY PHENOMENON.

That point needs soooooo badly to be driven home.

Americans don't understand it anymore.

They think "inflation" means increased prices.

Exactly.

[csen]

He just can't answer the tough questions. And yes, I noticed that sly grin on his face.

please say someone recorded this for youtube. it looked more like a "how dare you" glare than a smirk to me

[jonahtrainer]

LOL "with your fingers crossed, I guess" I love RP! :D

Too bad Ron Paul didn't harp on the 'decreasing mean income' of educated people.

I would ask Baldy why incomes relative to commodities (gold, silver, oil, corn, wheat, etc) are down xx% (probably around 60% or more) instead of a mere 29%.

Then if Baldy responds about that being an unreliable measure; he could respond well, wouldn't you agree that purchasing power is more important than nominal numbers? Isn't it true that commodities represent purchasing power better than paper dollars that are fiat currency and created out of thin air?

[WannaBfree]

Gold just shot up $8!

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

[MsDoodahs]

Ben's actually trying to move the dems off their "everyone must be equal" bullshit.

Which is good...

[Johnnybags]

Bernanke stated not to long ago that MS growth rate tends to pull inflatio with over time. If he asked him, what is ms growth rate he could have frozen him. bernanke hates when someone with a mind asks him a question, you can see it in his face. Private estimates are over 13 percent and thats close to what John Q feels being tugged from his wallet, not 2. The whole FED thing is a fraud, however the politicians are complicit in it. He tells them to cut spending but they never do.

[Bradley in DC]

dang i missed ron paul. Anyone record it?

The webcast will be archived on the banking cmte site. I was out at the very beginning at 10 am so it's possible that Dr. Paul made an opening statement that we missed.

[LibertyEagle]

GRACIOUS? Pryce is a complete suck up.

[AMack]

Damn I missed it! What did RP grill him on?

[angelatc]

I feel so close to you guys, seriously. Often I thought I was the only one...

I hear ya.

[RonPaulGetsIt]

IM ing one of my trader buddies - they always have cnbc on the trading floor - free advertising for the Dr.

[jonahtrainer]

Gold just shot up $8!

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

Yeah, isn't it beautiful. I have a bunch of futures call options on it! They are up over 50% over the past 2 days alone!

[LibertyEagle]

I'm surprised the doc didn't drill down Bernanke on how much they were increasing the money supply.

[Bradley in DC]

Helicopter Ben referencing Dr. Paul!! Wahoo! :)

[Bradley in DC]

Gold just shot up $8!

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html

Dr. Paul checks Kitco daily.

[MsDoodahs]

Dr. Paul checks Kitco daily.

Doesn't everybody? :o

[Bradley in DC]

Doesn't everybody? :o

I love you guys. :)

[LibertyEagle]

They should have an IQ test before someone is allowed to sit on the Monetary board. They're treating Bernanke like he is some kind of god.

[OceanMachine7]

Can anyone post a summary of what's happened so far?

[jonahtrainer]

Can anyone post a summary of what's happened so far?

Baldy is BSing and everyone is whining but have no substantive understanding of economic issues. They all need to read Pieces of Eight by Dr. Viera. Some Mises books would be helpful also.

They are whining about how incomes of educated people is down relative to dollars. They are talking about oil and energy prices (building nuclear power plants). However, they don't even talk about how incomes are down relative to commodities. After all, it is only purchasing power which counts. Too much capital is sitting idle in dollars which further holds down increases in prices (perceived inflation).

Someone even brought up the no-no of declining oil production and depletion.

They are also whining about the mortgage industry but who isn't.

[torchbearer]

Fill out all of the questions and put them in the email with the resume, I guess. Don is the guy.

ok, sent you a private message.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Oh come on, you're not one of those fringe conspiracy people who eat and use energy are you? :D

A friend of mine is an economist with the FRB and as I've discussed with him, they can't take energy out of the equation, as energy is built into the cost of goods. The inflation number sans energy and food should be for internal use, that number they feed the compter (not) to determine whether they should change the interest rate in the pursuit of tinkering.

You certainly can't take food and energy out of the real inflation that you and I see.

[jonahtrainer]

Dr. Paul checks Kitco daily.

Good to hear that from the good Dr. I keep multiple sets of books, consolidated financial statements, such as managerial, tax, dollars and gold.

If more people changed their measuring stick they would understand how bad things really are.

[jonahtrainer]

A friend of mine is an economist with the FRB and as I've discussed with him, they can't take energy out of the equation, as energy is built into the cost of goods. The inflation number sans energy and food should be for internal use, that number they feed the compter (not) to determine whether they should change the interest rate in the pursuit of tinkering.

You certainly can't take food and energy out of the real inflation that you and I see.

They can do whatever they want. It is like the wolf guarding the chicken coop. The conflicts of interest are blatant.

[IRO-bot]

it's probably way to late to get into the gold market right?

[Bradley in DC]

I lost my internet connection for a bit there. What'd I miss? Is it still on?

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

They should have an IQ test before someone is allowed to sit on the Monetary board. They're treating Bernanke like he is some kind of god.

Mensa Bulletin this month is all about Liberty. Refreshing! Many Mensans also tend to be liberals, so intelligence does not guarantee clear thinking in economics.

[Bradley in DC]

Fed regulations by letter:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/Regulations/

[RonPaulGetsIt]

it's probably way to late to get into the gold market right?

not even close but i wouldnt do it on margin

[Santana28]

is the campaign only hiring people for the DC area? whats the outlook for Illinois?

thanks :)

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

What is the order of speakers generally, alpha by state? Alpha by last name? Mr. Lynch of MA just spoke.

[WannaBfree]

it's probably way to late to get into the gold market right?

Please don't consider this financial advice but just information for you. Generally speaking, when the $ goes down, gold goes up. When oil goes up, gold goes up. The dollar is the lowest it has ever been. Oil is the highest it has ever been. Yet gold is not the highest it has ever been.

If you choose to buy gold, physical gold is recommended by many because in the end, paper gold (stocks, futures, etc) is just paper. That's not to say you can't make money with paper. But if everything crashes, you might have a hard time cashing in.

[sickmint79]

too much for me right now so i'll pass it on -

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicentennial-SILVER-INGOTS-100-TROY-OZ-Franklin-Mint_W0QQitemZ150143077183QQihZ005QQcategoryZ39489 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

someone should buy this NOW

[Johnnybags]

The true story on oil and virtually all commodites is dollar devaluation more than demand. Noone I know cannot buy as much of any product as they want, they just have to pay the price. Gas would be 2.00 bucks a gallon still if the dollar held its value over the last few years. Its that simple. A quick trade today? DBA a commodity tracker stock for some foods should pop up some more near the close. IMHO, no advice. If you make money donate it, lol.

[Original_Intent]

Now he is saying people will save better if there is a payroll deduction that they have to opt out of that would be a payroll deduction savings account.

Yeah THAT is going to help ends meet better. THAT is going to keep people's credit cards in their pockets.

[jonahtrainer]

it's probably way to late to get into the gold market right?

Depends what your time horizon is.

I bought the future call options because technically and fundamentally gold appears to be ready for the next large bull upleg (similar to Sep 05 - May 06). I doubt the large upleg will really start until around the middle to end of August.

Gold has been in a massive consolidation pattern for the past 18 months. Indian wedding season will soon be upon us. The Shanghai Gold Exchange (http://www.kitco.com/ind/AuthenticMoney/jul102007.html) recently changed the rules for Chinese ownership of bullion. Gold is currently cheap, below the 200dma, in almost all other (http://www.kitco.com/ind/Wiegand/may312007.html)major currencies.

Massive amounts (http://www.kitco.com/ind/AuthenticMoney/may232007.html) of physical gold (http://www.kitco.com/ind/AuthenticMoney/jun292007.html)have been dumped into the market, probably to suppress the price, and the market has only burped and asked for more.

I wouldn't buy right now but wait for a little bit of a pullback (when gold gets closer to its 200dma). I think gold may stop after an 8 month run around $850-1,000 per ounce.

Of course, opinions are a dime a dozen and with investing I usually keep mine to myself so do your own due diligence. With a careful analysis you can maximize your probability of making a successful investment.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

What is the order of speakers generally, alpha by state? Alpha by last name? Mr. Lynch of MA just spoke.

Mr. Meeks is now on, so appears to be alpha by name. Mr. Paul can't be too far off.

[Bradley in DC]

is the campaign only hiring people for the DC area? whats the outlook for Illinois?

thanks :)

No idea. Go to the website is best I can say.

What I do know: The campaign has had a shoestring staff (which is why I keep emphasizing NOT to call/email the campaign) that has been working very hard but is totally overwhelmed (this is a reflection of Dr. Paul's surprisingly quick popularity).

They are finally moving into a bigger office on Friday and Saturday. They have very recently started hiring and are in the process of delegating more responsibilities.

[torchbearer]

Mr. Meeks is now on, so appears to be alpha by name. Mr. Paul can't be too far off.

The chairman, first allowed those members that didn't speak last time to go first... Ron Paul has spoken for his first 5 minutes. not sure he will have time to speak again.

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Then I missed it. Anyone record it?

[Bradley in DC]

Mr. Meeks is now on, so appears to be alpha by name. Mr. Paul can't be too far off.

No, they sit according to seniority on the committee and questions are in order of "place" on the committee.

[Bradley in DC]

Then I missed it. Anyone record it?

Banking cmte website will have the hearing archived for viewing. Yesterday's hearing is there too.

[Bradley in DC]

Ms. Waters has very high staff turnover, has some kooky ideas, but is personally sympathic with Dr. Paul (he doesn't just vote with the Rs, has co-authored legislation with the Congressional Black Caucus, etc.)

[IRO-bot]

I don't think she really knew what she was talking about.

[Original_Intent]

Ms. Waters has very high staff turnover, has some kooky ideas, but is personally sympathic with Dr. Paul (he doesn't just vote with the Rs, has co-authored legislation with the Congressional Black Caucus, etc.)

How the hell do people like this get elected? Does this lady have a brain?

[IRO-bot]

This guy isn't even close to answering anything. He just talks about talking about the question and the ideas in the question.

[Bradley in DC]

How the hell do people like this get elected?

We vote for them. :(

[IRO-bot]

We vote for them. :(

Now that is the kind of truth that slaps you in the face and calls you a B!tch.

[torchbearer]

How the hell do people like this get elected? Does this lady have a brain?

Money from special interest. People vote for the person with the biggest and prettiest signs... and if they can put them out every 5 feet the candidate must be great! If they have tons of well produced commercials.. they must be a great candidates. Voter ignorance = ignorant representatives.

[PatriotOne]

I'd like to see RP break all that down for me. I have no idea what Bernake was saying other than it is all so complicated that the answers are not easy. Not once did I hear a solution to any of the problems. Just excuses. Perhaps RP can take advantage of this and put all that in terms that us non-financial wizards can understand and take it on the news circuit.

[WannaBfree]

The true story on oil and virtually all commodites is dollar devaluation more than demand. Noone I know cannot buy as much of any product as they want, they just have to pay the price. Gas would be 2.00 bucks a gallon still if the dollar held its value over the last few years.


In the case of oil (gas), demand is outstripping supply. As China and India modernize, their demand for oil is increasing. Remember the footage of all those bicycles in China? Now it's all cars. Meanwhile, Ghawar (world's largest oil field in Saudi Arabia) appears to be dying. There are reports of water being pumped into the field to bring the oil to the top (sign of depletion). And that oil isn't all light sweet anymore, but heavy sour which is hard to refine. From what I've been reading, oil is the exception to your otherwise accepted theory. If this is all true, we can expect higher prices for everything, as everything is either made from petroleum, and/or made using energy from petroleum, and/or transported using petroleum. Gold might help protect you from higher prices as gold prices should go up right along with everything else.

[Original_Intent]

The major points that I caught (I am at work and could not listen without interruption)

1. Core inflation does not include rising costs of food and energy because they are too volatile and besides, the numbers would show inflation is higher than they want it to show.

2. Monetary policy is going to be formed based on the fairy tale expectation that the housing market is going to rebound and in a big way.

3. Congress feels that the fed must do something to equalize wages (or at least Ms Waters feels that way. :confused:

4. Bottom line the fed can contort "the numbers" any which way to get the result that will support whatever actions they were going to take anyway, and they will always sell those actions as moves to protect the consumer.

[Bradley in DC]

Yesterday's hearing is archived here:

http://financialserv.edgeboss.net/wmedia/financialserv/hearing071707.wvx

Dr. Paul speaks about five minutes in to the video immediately after the opening statement of Chairman Frank.

[Bradley in DC]

In the case of oil (gas), demand is outstripping supply. As China and India modernize, their demand for oil is increasing. Remember the footage of all those bicycles in China? Now it's all cars. Meanwhile, Ghawar (world's largest oil field in Saudi Arabia) appears to be dying. There are reports of water being pumped into the field to bring the oil to the top (sign of depletion). And that oil isn't all light sweet anymore, but heavy sour which is hard to refine. From what I've been reading, oil is the exception to your otherwise accepted theory. If this is all true, we can expect higher prices for everything, as everything is either made from petroleum, and/or made using energy from petroleum, and/or transported using petroleum. Gold might help protect you from higher prices as gold prices should go up right along with everything else.

You are confusing prices for one thing and the general price level (which is always a monetary phenomenon). It is very possible to keep the general price level steady and to have oil rise RELATIVE to other non-oil prices. Inflation is not the same as rising prices. Rising prices are an EFFECT of inflation (excessive/artificial credit creation usually a result of monetizing debt).

[Bradley in DC]

I'd like to see RP break all that down for me. I have no idea what Bernake was saying other than it is all so complicated that the answers are not easy. Not once did I hear a solution to any of the problems. Just excuses. Perhaps RP can take advantage of this and put all that in terms that us non-financial wizards can understand and take it on the news circuit.

Dr. Paul's opening statement from yesterday's hearing is probably the best explanation.

[Johnnybags]

In the case of oil (gas), demand is outstripping supply. As China and India modernize, their demand for oil is increasing. Remember the footage of all those bicycles in China? Now it's all cars. Meanwhile, Ghawar (world's largest oil field in Saudi Arabia) appears to be dying. There are reports of water being pumped into the field to bring the oil to the top (sign of depletion). And that oil isn't all light sweet anymore, but heavy sour which is hard to refine. From what I've been reading, oil is the exception to your otherwise accepted theory. If this is all true, we can expect higher prices for everything, as everything is either made from petroleum, and/or made using energy from petroleum, and/or transported using petroleum. Gold might help protect you from higher prices as gold prices should go up right along with everything else.


You may be onto something but I find nowhere in the entire free world where the demand for oil is not satisfied? My point however is that if the dollar was at a few years back highs instead of lows, the price would only have gone up incrementally. Its a world commodity and currency exchange rates have everything to do with price. It has not gone up in Euros nearly as much. Much like the Euro investor in US equities is not gaining a darn thing and probably losing money. We think we are making money, in theory we are but we are losing buying power at a faster rate.

[jonahtrainer]

Yesterday's hearing is archived here:

http://financialserv.edgeboss.net/wmedia/financialserv/hearing071707.wvx

Dr. Paul speaks about five minutes in to the video immediately after the opening statement of Chairman Frank.

Dr. Paul starts talking at 9:51.

[Syren123]

How the hell do people like this get elected? Does this lady have a brain?

Is this Maxine Waters from Los Angeles? LOL!!!! She has absolutely no idea what she is talking about. She gets elected because unfortunately the people in her district know less than she does, which is very sad.

[PatriotOne]

Dr. Paul's opening statement from yesterday's hearing is probably the best explanation.

Thanks Bradley. I was out of the lopp yesterday with on and off internet probs. I missed this entirely. Thanks for the link above.

[Bradley in DC]

Thanks Bradley. I was out of the lopp yesterday with on and off internet probs. I missed this entirely. Thanks for the link above.

My pleasure, sorry for dropping the ball and not posting this yesterday!

Could one of our techie people YouTube Dr. Paul from yesterday too, not just the opening statement but his questions too?

[TheEvilDetector]

There are a few things you should know about the fed, I will summarise the very verbose bullshit from the economists and believe me it is bullshit. They focus on the what but not on the why. Discussing the whys would expose them.

You should know they will say anything they want to preserve the status quo and ultimately diffuse concerns, thus no net change, just as elitist want. They are self-serving pseudo government bureacrats, what did you expect?

Issue: Distribution of Income (which is extremely important!!)
Response: Congress' Job not the Feds. (how can congress possibly deal with this, I have an idea, abolish the fed, allow asset backed money)

Issue: Budget Deficit (which is extremely important!!)
Response: Congress' Job not the Feds (we all know how well the congress deals with this)

Issue: Saving Rate (which is important!!)
Response: Congress' Job not the Feds (how can congress possibly deal with this, I have an idea, abolish the fed, allow asset backed money)

Issue: Reporting Inflation Target ( transparency of government operation )
Response: Which Inflation Type to Focus On? Focussing on one particular type can have negative effects. Overall the Fed has a discretionary policy on a loose inflation target. (self-serving response)

Issue: Reporting Any Target
Response: Focussing on any one target, shifts policy towards it at the expense of other targets (this conveniently omits the logical question, shouldn't every important target be transparent).

Self-brought-out-Issue: Political Election Cycle on Fed
Response: Acknowledged (very convenient to allow for changes that can be blamed on political climate, as if the Fed has not got a total strangehold on economy)

Self-brought-out-issue: Living Standards
Response: Increased over last 20 years (For whom? LOL).

Here is a fun quote for you (self-serving fun):
"claim to value transparency and clear communications a break from the past secrecy once prized ... central banks have not explained the ever present part of the uncertainty that accompanies all economic changes, the duration of any change is often in doubt ... changes may also affect the level of the growth rate, usually takes time to decide the type of change that has occurred and how long it will persist"

---------
My view and it is a view that is being supported by the discussion I have witnessed is that the FED's existence is not in the best interest of the middle class. This is supported by their policy, their own statements and historical and current economic data.

It also seems to me that everyone other than Ron Paul, do not have a strong interest in strong reform of the monetary system since current system allows easy government spending, with the cost being passed on, it also allows enrichment of the political and elite classes without there being anything the middle and poor class can do about it. A win situation for those with deep pockets or political influence.

[MGS]

Dr. Paul starts talking at 9:51.

Who's the first "Witness" speaker from yesterday?

[Bradley in DC]

Issue: Distribution of Income (which is extremely important!!)
Response: Congress' Job not the Feds. (how can congress possibly deal with this, I have an idea, abolish the fed, allow asset backed money)

Issue: Budget Deficit (which is extremely important!!)
Response: Congress' Job not the Feds (we all know how well the congress deals with this)

Issue: Saving Rate (which is important!!)
Response: Congress' Job not the Feds (how can congress possibly deal with this, I have an idea, abolish the fed, allow asset backed money)

Issue: Reporting Inflation Target ( transparency of government operation )
Response: Which Inflation Type to Focus On? Focussing on one particular type can have negative effects. Overall the Fed has a discretionary policy on a loose inflation target. (self-serving response)

Issue: Reporting Any Target
Response: Focussing on any one target, shifts policy towards it at the expense of other targets (this conveniently omits the logical question, shouldn't every important target be transparent).
---------
My view and it is a view that is being supported by the discussion I have witnessed is that the FED's existence is not in the best interest of the middle class. This is supported by their policy, their own statements and historical and current economic data.

It also seems to me that everyone other than Ron Paul, do not have a strong interest in strong reform of the monetary system since current system allows easy government spending, with the cost being passed on, it also allows enrichment of the political and elite classes without there being anything the middle and poor class can do about it. A win situation for those with deep pockets or political influence.

Wow, so much so right and so much so wrong...

"distribution of income" is not at all important and explicitly NOT Congress' job (Article I Sec. 8)

Budget deficit--problem that Fed monetizes the debt which causes inflation

savings rate is important but not Congress' job (but related to inflation, see above)

Fed inflation and other targets are statutory under Humphrey-Hawkins which is the subject of the hearings.

[TheEvilDetector]

Wow, so much so right and so much so wrong...

"distribution of income" is not at all important and explicitly NOT Congress' job (Article I Sec. 8)

Budget deficit--problem that Fed monetizes the debt which causes inflation

savings rate is important but not Congress' job (but related to inflation, see above)

Fed inflation and other targets are statutory under Humphrey-Hawkins which is the subject of the hearings.

First of all, I wasn't the one that essentially or directly inquired/responded the things outside round quotes after issue: and response: because what I typed is a summary or a direct copy of what the congress members and/or witnesses have enquired and/or said OK? As such, you reply simply translates to the fact that basically the witnesses are either ignorant of the political process or believe the country is ignorant (the latter is more likely to be true).

Now that we cleared that, lets move onto some of the things you said that do actually concern me, like distribution of income.

In my opinion distribution of Income is critically important because distribution of income issue is one of the root cause of the rising class disparity. You can argue against that if you like, I am not sure many would agree with you. The Fed speciously stays out of it, the congress too (according to you anyway), where does that leave the people who dont have a free market or a sound currency? Up the shit creek without a paddle.

The rest of what you said, does not contradict anything I wrote.

Next time, research, analyse and summarise before you type, thank you.

http://financialserv.edgeboss.net/wmedia/financialserv/hearing071707.wvx

[Bradley in DC]

First of all, I wasn't the one that essentially or directly said the things outside round quotes after issue: and response: because what I typed is a summary or a direct copy of what the witnesses have said OK? As such, you reply simply translates to the fact that basically the witnesses do not know the political process or do not care.

Now that we cleared that, lets move onto some of the things you said that do actually concern me, like distribution of income.

In my opinion distribution of Income is critically important because distribution of income issue is one of the root cause of the rising class disparity. You can argue against that if you like, I am not sure many would agree with you.

The rest of what you said, does not contradict anything I wrote.

Next time, research, analyse and summarise before you type, thank you.

http://financialserv.edgeboss.net/wmedia/financialserv/hearing071707.wvx

My mistake in attributing your summary as your remarks, sorry.

I am prepared to back up my arguments as Dr. Paul's positions. The Constitution's Article I Section 8 enumerates the only powers Congress has. Dr. Paul repeated cites this limitation on Congress to explain his "no" votes. If one is going to argue that any issues (income distribution, etc.) are the job of Congress, one's going to have to cite the authorization for them (not saying it is your view here now).

But seriously, we don't want to all be equally poor--North Korea is not our model. Increased specialization (and the resulting income disparity) is a logical outgrowth of a dynamic capitalist system. If the inequality is a result of infringements on right of contract and association, they we have common interests.

[TheEvilDetector]

My mistake in attributing your summary as your remarks, sorry.

I am prepared to back up my arguments as Dr. Paul's positions. The Constitution's Article I Section 8 enumerates the only powers Congress has. Dr. Paul repeated cites this limitation on Congress to explain his "no" votes. If one is going to argue that any issues (income distribution, etc.) are the job of Congress, one's going to have to cite the authorization for them (not saying it is your view here now).

But seriously, we don't want to all be equally poor--North Korea is not our model. Increased specialization (and the resulting income disparity) is a logical outgrowth of a dynamic capitalist system. If the inequality is a result of infringements on right of contract and association, they we have common interests.

Was I arguing distribution of income is the job of the congress? Absolutely Not. It is one of the witnesses that stated it to be so by his own ignorance or by assumption of the ignorance of the public. Interestingly, earlier on, the chairman of committee seemed to imply in his opening remarks that distribution of income was somehow the responsibility of the fed. Talk about passing the buck by ignorance and/or incompetence and/or negligence none of which are very flattering. This all boils down to the simple fact: Neither the fed nor the congress can address or even want to truly address this issue. Only a free market and a sound currency can, but the powers that be, will not allow that to happen, for after all, how can they maintain the riches and control in a system that favours the middle class and the poor?

Of course we dont all want to be poor, but believe me in long term socialism we will be. This is where the masses are heading. You may wish to ask why? Well, the net wealth of the middle and the poor is decreasing while the tax burden is ever present. Result? Systematic degradation of an entire people. If you think the ultra rich do not have the connections, the resources and the ability to avoid the tax burden and the negative effects of inflation then I have a bridge etc.

The whole globalisation movement is a collectivist goal by the way.