Conservative Index renamed to Freedom Index

[specsaregood]

The JBS has officially renamed their "Conservative Index" to the "Freedom Index".
http://www.jbs.org/node/4750

This is a rating system that they use to rate politicians.

The meat of the article:
"The name was changed beginning with this latest index because the word "conservative" no longer connotes constitutional principles of limited government at home and avoiding foreign entanglements abroad, as it once did. "

"In fact, in recent years the word "conservative" has increasingly been associated with policies that used to be considered decidedly "liberal," particularly since George W. Bush has occupied the White House. "

Oh, and Ron Paul is one of the only two to get 100% on the freedom index.

[BillyBeer]

No offense, but an endorsement from the JBS Society isnt gonna sway many voters.

[specsaregood]

No offense, but an endorsement from the JBS Society isnt gonna sway many voters.

And Why would that be? Because all the JBS members already support Ron Paul?
Or do you think they are a racist organization. I used to think that; because that is what I was told. But if you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society you will find that they are anti-collectivism and probably find that their history and beliefs are very much in line with RP's beliefs.

Note: I am not a JBS member. I simply found it interesting that they have decided to deprecate the term "conservative".

[BillyBeer]

And Why would that be? Because all the JBS members already support Ron Paul?
Or do you think they are a racist organization. I used to think that; because that is what I was told. But if you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society you will find that they are anti-collectivism and probably find that their history and beliefs are very much in line with RP's beliefs.

Note: I am not a JBS member. I simply found it interesting that they have decided to deprecate the term "conservative".

All I am saying is that JBS immediately turns some people off, just like the ACLU.

Mike Dukakis got crucified for being a member of the ACLU.

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, the JBS was getting really powerful back in the day and all kinds of smear stuff was started to bring them down. It worked. They were coming back up when Larry MacDonald was their president. He was also a Congressman who had plans to run for President of the U.S. That is until KAL007 was shot down by the Russians. He was on board.

But, I agree that right or wrong, the JBS is not a good selling point. I don't know however why their Freedom Index could not be viewed as sound. As opposed to so very many organizations who assign grades to politicians for how they voted, the Freedom Index actually lists the bills and the rationale for each rating, on each vote.

[specsaregood]

All I am saying is that JBS immediately turns some people off, just like the ACLU.

Mike Dukakis got crucified for being a member of the ACLU.

Ok, I hear that. Personally, I was quite surprised when I did some reading about them.

How about the topic? Is the term "conservative" now out of fashion and have the same affect on the population as mentioning JBS or ACLU? ie: instantly turns people off.

[BillyBeer]

Ok, I hear that. Personally, I was quite surprised when I did some reading about them.

How about the topic? Is the term "conservative" now out of fashion and have the same affect on the population as mentioning JBS or ACLU? ie: instantly turns people off.

Conservative might be polarizing to some people. But poll after poll shows more people are conservative than liberal. The JBS is probably just moving away from the term because they do not want to be identified with people like George W. Bush and Rudy Giuliani who claim to be "conservative."

[Delaware]

the JBS believes in the "communist conspiracy" which is a very interesting subject nonetheless.

[guntherg16]

the JBS believes in the "communist conspiracy" which is a very interesting subject nonetheless.

http://www.jbs.org/conspiracy

Anyone interested should investigate the link I posted above. There the JBS lays out the conspiracy fact and fiction.

[angrydragon]

http://digg.com/political_opinion/Ron_Paul_and_Tom_Coburn_Score_100_Percent_in_The_F reedom_Index

Ron Paul and Tom Coburn Score 100 Percent in “The Freedom Index”

[Kuldebar]

The JBS, much like Patrick Buchanan and Ron Paul are much maligned by their detractors for many of the same ill-founded and dishonest reasons.

In the simplistic political world of bleeding hearts if one opposed forced busing and racial quotas and affirmative action (http://www.mises.org/misesreview_detail.asp?control=135&sortorder=issue) that automatically makes one a rabid racist.

Obviously, the longer history an organization or individual has coincides with the number of principled though often unpopular stands that may have been taken.

[DAZ]

How about the topic? Is the term "conservative" now out of fashion and have the same affect on the population as mentioning JBS or ACLU? ie: instantly turns people off.

It depends who you're talking to. One thing is for sure, the "conservative" label means something very different today to most Americans than it did 40 years ago. I would call myself a conservative, but most people today have a different meaning for that word than I do. So I call myself a Goldwater Conservative or more often a libertarian so people who care to know can actually understand at a glance many of my positions. The label I give myself may change depending on who I'm talking to, but the positions behind that label stay the same. The changing definition of words, especially in politics, is not a new phenomenon. In most other countries, a "liberal" is by and large what we in the states call "libertarian". Our definition for the word "liberal" changed when the socialists adopted if for themselves.

[ThePieSwindler]

In most other countries, a "liberal" is by and large what we in the states call "libertarian". Our definition for the word "liberal" changed when the socialists adopted if for themselves.

Most of the liberals in europe are socialists.

[Kuldebar]

We live in a day and age that people wearing the label of liberals are actually socialists and those wearing the label of conservatives are fascists.

It has completely turned everything upside down from what those labels used to originally mean.

Classical Liberalism and Classical Conservativism...


GANDALF:It is in Men that we must place our hope.

ELROND: Men? Men are weak. The race of Men is failing. The blood of Numenor is all but spent. Its pride and dignity forgotten. It is because of Men the Ring survives. I was there, Gandalf. I was there three thousand years ago... And Isildur took the Ring. I was there the day the strength of men failed.

Maybe there can be a Return to the Constitution, may be the strength of our heritage can bring about the Fall of Mordor.

This is our epic struggle and heroic tale.

[DAZ]

Most of the liberals in europe are socialists.

I took my point of view from my studies of history in college, but here's a bit from good ol' wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal


A general overview of political positions of contemporary liberal parties and movements

Today the word "liberalism" is used differently in different countries. (See Liberalism worldwide.) One of the greatest contrasts is between the usage in the United States and usage in Continental Europe.[17] In the US, liberalism is usually understood to refer to modern liberalism, as contrasted with conservatism. American liberals endorse regulation for business, a limited social welfare state, and support broad racial, ethnic, sexual and religious tolerance, and thus more readily embrace pluralism, and affirmative action. In Europe, on the other hand, liberalism is not only contrasted with conservatism and Christian Democracy, but also with socialism and social democracy.

[DAZ]

Tell our your hobbit friends to run for Congress. :D

[buffalokid777]

Conservative might be polarizing to some people. But poll after poll shows more people are conservative than liberal. The JBS is probably just moving away from the term because they do not want to be identified with people like George W. Bush and Rudy Giuliani who claim to be "conservative."

The only reason people are starting to dislike conservatives is because Neoconservatives hoodwinked them into following their policies instead of the "Traditional" conservative views.....

Many conservatives did not understand what they bought into with Bush...

They thought he was one of them....he wasn't...he follows neoconservative principles....

Heres wikipedia's entry for neoconservativism....good info....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative

P.S. The so called top tier conservative candidates are pretty much Neocons....

Ron Paul is probably the most conservative Republican in the field.

[DAZ]

Ron Paul is probably the most conservative Republican in the field.

True, but that doesn't address the problem that a large segment of Americans think that the definition of "conservative" proffered by the Bush family et al is the real definition. That's why we need to be aware of the views already held by our audience when we try to tell them about Ron Paul. It's hard to keep the attention of a lifelong Democrat when the first thing you say is that Dr. Paul is a Republican. Along the same lines, many confirmed independents get a bad taste in their mouth when the hear the word "conservative". Don't lie to people, just play to their sympathies.

[buffalokid777]

True, but that doesn't address the problem that a large segment of Americans think that the definition of "conservative" proffered by the Bush family et al is the real definition. That's why we need to be aware of the views already held by our audience when we try to tell them about Ron Paul. It's hard to keep the attention of a lifelong Democrat when the first thing you say is that Dr. Paul is a Republican. Along the same lines, many confirmed independents get a bad taste in their mouth when the hear the word "conservative". Don't lie to people, just play to their sympathies.

For Independents and Liberals....The best thing to stress is Ron Paul's anti Iraq invasion stance....He was against it from day 1 despite the pressure from his own party to support it...this shows to independents..that Ron Paul is a principled man of integrety that is an independent thinker.

For liberals an especially good selling point is pointing out that the liberals have controll of the house an almost the senate...yet they refuse to defund the war for political gains next election....

These two talking points are very helpful in converting both liberal and independent support to Ron Paul :)

[ThePieSwindler]

I took my point of view from my studies of history in college, but here's a bit from good ol' wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal

I'm sorry i mistyped (not misspoke cuse its interwebs) and made myself sound like an idiot. I meant left wingers. In america where its mostly thought of as left vs right = liberal vs conservative, and liberals are the leftists. I meant european LEFTISTS. In europe, liberalism means classical liberalism. Also in many European countries, there are more than 2 parties with a decent showing in the parliaments, whereas inthe US its Repubs vs Democrats. There are alot of european leftists, but they are not called liberals, they are called socialists/progressives. There is still the left/right paradigm, but many nations have more than one party representing it, and theres alot of radical centrists in europe as well (mixed economy types).

[buffalokid777]

I'm sorry i mistyped (not misspoke cuse its interwebs) and made myself sound like an idiot. I meant left wingers. In america where its mostly thought of as left vs right = liberal vs conservative, and liberals are the leftists. I meant european LEFTISTS. In europe, liberalism means classical liberalism. Also in many European countries, there are more than 2 parties with a decent showing in the parliaments, whereas inthe US its Repubs vs Democrats. There are alot of european leftists, but they are not called liberals, they are called socialists/progressives.

In Pop Politics....There is no right and wrong....

Only Left & Right.....

I think we need to START considering what is Right and Wrong.

Promoting Freedom is RIGHT!

Killing innocents is WRONG!

[cac1963]

Wouldn't it be a hoot to see cardcarrying ACLUers standing alongside paranoid Birchers all cheering together at a Paul campaign rally? If that doesn't signify the unifying message Paul offers, what would?