Immigration, Immigration, Immigration!!!!

[RSLudlum]

I live in Charleston, SC and recently 2 local news station each had a poll:

NBC News 2: http://www.wcbd.com/midatlantic/cbd/home.html
Should all government paperwork be only in English?

Yes 90% (408 votes)
No 8% (37 votes)
I dont Care 2% (10 votes)


ABC News 4: http://www.wciv.com/
What Is The Most Important Issue For You In The Election?

Border Control/Immigration 54%
Iraq War 16%
Healthcare 15%
Energy & Oil 15%

Total: 347 votes

[gaazn]

i bet they only polled english-speaking people. with the poll in english.

[Spirit of '76]

i bet they only polled english-speaking people. with the poll in english.

Well, we are in America. :rolleyes:

[Lord Xar]

hmm.. well, at least we know what to target in SC.

[PimpBlimp]

Well you guys could run some newspaper ads in south carolina promoting Paul's strong anti-illegal immigration stance. \

Check this thread for details.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=76077

[MsDoodahs]

I have a friend in SC, he is a Fredhead but says if Fred quits and Ron is in the top 3, he will join us. His son is already on board with RP, by the way.

This friend has one issue - IMMIGRATION.

It has caused some real economic havoc in SC, or at least that is my friend's point of view, so for what it is worth, I think this is the issue to hit and hit HARD in SC.

[faisal]

only about 350 people voted. This isn't very conclusive.

[endwellmom4RON]

My sister lives in Greenville, she's very well off and all she ever talks about is how bad the illegal immigration problem is. That is her only issue. BTW, she doesn't really care about politics but said she would vote for RP if I called and reminded her when to vote.

[nate895]

Maybe we should use my attack ad against the "top 5." It's here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=73025

[justinc.1089]

Going door to door we found a different result than that, that most people do not have just 1 issue but care about all of the big ones like borders, Iraq, the economy, and healthcare. Then there are naturally people in SC caring about farming issues also and gun rights.

[rancher89]

The only thing I hear is Huclebee. That is except the 25% that will vote for RP. We have to hit the religous angle also, the baptist ministers are all about the Huckster....

[noztnac]

I'm from SC and would have been one of the no votes on the first question.

[noztnac]

Well, we are in America. :rolleyes:


Then why would the language be English? We fought to gain independence from the English.

[fireworks_god]

Going door to door we found a different result than that, that most people do not have just 1 issue but care about all of the big ones like borders, Iraq, the economy, and healthcare. Then there are naturally people in SC caring about farming issues also and gun rights.

Awesome, information from the ground!

The great thing for us is borders, Iraq, and the economy are all intricately linked. Ron Paul is the link. We can play this up HUGE!

[nimo]

I live just across the border in N.C. and the Illegals are bad as hell here. They are all over the place and people are pissed as hell!

[gaazn]

I live just across the border in N.C. and the Illegals are bad as hell here. They are all over the place and people are pissed as hell!


admit it. the people in nc and upstate sc do not like any immigrants, legal or illegal. and it's also the sentiment in many other parts of sc. i think the illegal immigrants are lightning rods because people don't like mexicans because they don't look like them or dress like them, but sure as hell works harder than many of them.

[PimpBlimp]

a people don't like mexicans because they don't look like them or dress like them, but sure as hell works harder than many of them.

People don't like them because they refuse to learn our language and integrate into our culture. Plus they don't seem to mind the fact that they are breaking a law by living here illegally.

Its just a bad situation all around and needs to be addressed.

[nimo]

admit it. the people in nc and upstate sc do not like any immigrants, legal or illegal. and it's also the sentiment in many other parts of sc. i think the illegal immigrants are lightning rods because people don't like mexicans because they don't look like them or dress like them, but sure as hell works harder than many of them.

Don't apply this statement to me! As long as they are legal I have no issue. I actually find your statement offensive.

[gaazn]

too many people are bashing illegal immigrants because they assume that they know what one looks like. in my opinion anyone who is not committing a crime does not need to carry or provide any documents with him. tracking and cracking down on illegal immigration will lead to a police state where everyone will need to provide some form of ID like a national ID even when doing nothing wrong. there are illegal immigrants from europe who can speak english and dress nice, but no no one seems to complain about them. why are we talking about building a fence along the mexican border when illegal immigrants are entering the country from everywhere? i rather people be straight talkers and just say they don't like mexicans without beating around the bush by being politically correct.

[alexa doherty]

[QUOTE=gaazn;846119]too many people are bashing illegal immigrants because they assume that they know what one looks like.

That's not the reason. The reason is because they're taking jobs that our legal middle class and poor would have. Bringing crimes, gangs, bankrupting hospitols, and overflooding towns n cities. The illegal part is secondary to me.

>there are illegal immigrants from europe who can speak english and dress nice, but no no one seems to complain about them.

That is because they do the things you described. They assimilate into culture here, they learn english and don't leach off of the communities and create gangs or crime. They're intelligent and don't come from the third world so they tend to be friendlier.

>why are we talking about building a fence along the mexican border when illegal immigrants are entering the country from everywhere?

LEGAL Immigrants from Europe are limited to 1-2% each years. From the southern border, LEGAL immigrants are 40-50%. And illegals are higher than that so there's obviously some bias going on. Furthermore Mexico has harsher immigration laws than we do.

>i rather people be straight talkers and just say they don't like mexicans without beating around the bush by being politically correct.

I don't like the third world invasion and the millions of people cramping the cities. Overcrowding is a huge problem and quite frankly it hasn't helped in California.

[Liberty Star]

We have to have right tone and message of Hope and Change without coming across as if we are pandering.

Tancredo should be King in SC, why is he not?

Priorities in message are key to maximize support across America.

War, Economic/Liberties costs of Bush/Cheney policies are the winning issues everywhere.

[thisisgiparti]

Then why would the language be English? We fought to gain independence from the English.

So, maybe we should have adopted French. There were plenty of them living here at the time. Heck, we bought a quarter of our country from them.

Speaking English is a big deal. The early settlers came here from Amsterdam, because they hated hearing their children speak Dutch.

[noztnac]

So, maybe we should have adopted French. There were plenty of them living here at the time. Heck, we bought a quarter of our country from them.

Speaking English is a big deal. The early settlers came here from Amsterdam, because they hated hearing their children speak Dutch.

The United States has no official language for a reason. I'm surprised a supporter of Ron Paul would support the federal government mandating how people should or should not communicate.:confused:

[noztnac]

admit it. the people in nc and upstate sc do not like any immigrants, legal or illegal. and it's also the sentiment in many other parts of sc. i think the illegal immigrants are lightning rods because people don't like mexicans because they don't look like them or dress like them, but sure as hell works harder than many of them.

That's bullshit! I went to high school in Conway and lived in Charleston. The only people that hate the immigrants are racist assholes.

What people do not like is people on welfare. Usually the immigrants are legal, working, and not on welfare. The people on welfare tend to be people born here.

Enough of this attack on immigrants. Many come here legally. The ones who are here illegally need to be sent home, but we don't want to be racist jerks about it.

[gaazn]

[QUOTE=gaazn;846119]too many people are bashing illegal immigrants because they assume that they know what one looks like.

That's not the reason. The reason is because they're taking jobs that our legal middle class and poor would have. Bringing crimes, gangs, bankrupting hospitols, and overflooding towns n cities. The illegal part is secondary to me.

>there are illegal immigrants from europe who can speak english and dress nice, but no no one seems to complain about them.

That is because they do the things you described. They assimilate into culture here, they learn english and don't leach off of the communities and create gangs or crime. They're intelligent and don't come from the third world so they tend to be friendlier.

>why are we talking about building a fence along the mexican border when illegal immigrants are entering the country from everywhere?

LEGAL Immigrants from Europe are limited to 1-2% each years. From the southern border, LEGAL immigrants are 40-50%. And illegals are higher than that so there's obviously some bias going on. Furthermore Mexico has harsher immigration laws than we do.

>i rather people be straight talkers and just say they don't like mexicans without beating around the bush by being politically correct.

I don't like the third world invasion and the millions of people cramping the cities. Overcrowding is a huge problem and quite frankly it hasn't helped in California.



dont be parsing my statements. together its one idea. youre worse than the neocons on fox.

[gaazn]

That's bullshit! I went to high school in Conway and lived in Charleston. The only people that hate the immigrants are racist assholes.

What people do not like is people on welfare. Usually the immigrants are legal, working, and not on welfare. The people on welfare tend to be people born here.

Enough of this attack on immigrants. Many come here legally. The ones who are here illegally need to be sent home, but we don't want to be racist jerks about it.



if a bunch of illegal immigrant-looking people (generalized by a bunch of mexican day laborers standing on the street looking) are standing in the street, how can you tell they are illegal? shouldn't anybody in this country have a right to walk in the street without having to PROVE that they are legal if they have done no crime (other than being in the country illegally)? that is what i call freedom. otherwise we will have a police state.

that's why immigration cannot be solved by just kicking people out. even if the government wanted to do that, they would have to allow each INDIVIDUAL illegal immigrant due process in court to PROVE they are illegal before kicking them out. Not speaking english and not having documentation is not enough proof that one is illegal because I would imagine that it would be legal to speak another language, as well as it is legal to make oneself undocumented by "going off the grid."

the best way to reduce illegal immigration is to get rid of the welfare state altogether.

[ConstitutionGal]

Lew Moore asked us what the biggest issue was here in Tennessee back in October and I told him illegal immigration. Dr. Paul then spoke about it at the Nashville Rally although I think he's articulated his stance better in subsequent rallies and debates. Illegal immigration is THE BIG issue here in the South and, frankly, Dr. Paul has lost some foks here talking about how we wouldn't mind having them (the illegals) here if the economy was better. Frankly, this is the one issue where I disagree with Dr. Paul. The illegals and the refugees are trashing Nashville and many of the surrounding areas because they are turning them into third-world enclaves and they refuse to even think about assimilating into our culture and, as long as our nation panders to them by doing everything for them (schooling their children, paying for their health care and subsidizing their houseing, etc., etc) while they look down their noses at us, nothing is going to change. People here want the illegals GONE. Thankfully, Dr. Paul has gotten a bit more stern about this issue by bringing up enforceing employment laws and such but folks around here want TOUGH employers sanctions (jail time preferably) and they don't want to have to pay for the education and such of their offspring nor do they want their illegal anchor babies given citizenship (two things that Dr. Paul IS good on).

IMHO, the campaign REALLY needs to HAMMER this issue in this part of the country as well as in states like Nevada and the border states. This SINGLE issue can WIN him these states if he will just concentrate on it.

[fireworks_god]

The United States has no official language for a reason. I'm surprised a supporter of Ron Paul would support the federal government mandating how people should or should not communicate.:confused:

Exactly! Language is one of the most free things we have. I'm learning Romanian right now, learning a new language changes your mind in so many ways! :)

If people who do come here legally do not wish to learn the language, great. It'll put them at a disadvantage. Its their choice. Learning English is an evolutionary advantage if you'll be in the USA. :D If they don't wish to, then what are you going to do, force someone to understand what you're saying? :rolleyes:

I do think, of course, that people should come to this country legally. Citizenship is necessary for the function of a country. We're talking about an organized society, of course. If the laws are just and respecting of the inherent sovereignty of the individual human being, then citizenship would be a positive thing.

[ConstitutionGal]

That's bullshit! I went to high school in Conway and lived in Charleston. The only people that hate the immigrants are racist assholes.

What people do not like is people on welfare. Usually the immigrants are legal, working, and not on welfare. The people on welfare tend to be people born here.

Enough of this attack on immigrants. Many come here legally. The ones who are here illegally need to be sent home, but we don't want to be racist jerks about it.

No. What people don't like is seeing their towns, cities and communites turned into third world hell-holes because the illegals are coming here at such high rates that they no longer have to attempt assimilation to get along here. When you look at the REAL numbers, we have around 30 million ILLEGALS here and it's past time that they were forced to return back from whence they came (attrition through enforcement of labor laws would be an excellent place to start). Also, folks aren't just picking on the Mexicans. Here is the south, it's mostly Hispanics but in certain other areas it east Asians and in other areas it's middle-easterneres.

What we need is a complete moritorium on ALL immigration for about 10 years to give us time to get the current mess straightened out because is has been proven time and time again that legal immigration is too often a magnet for illegal immigration. One person comes here legally and then provides the means for their illegal relatives to come here. It either stops SOON or our own children won't have a country within 20 - 30 years. Here is Tennessee the school population growth is a 100% direct result of immigration and is the reason that property taxes ( which pays for most of our education budget) keep rising. What you have to realize is that property taxes are figured on x-number of 'normal' occupants per household (number of bedrooms per dwelling) size as in - 3 bedroom home typcially assumes 2 children. When the illegals move in around here, they tend to live 2 or 3 FAMILIES to one household thus sending more children to the schools than the property taxes for that household will cover. Guess who gets their taxes hiked to make up the shortfall.....that's right...everyone, and we're damned sick of it. We've also had several very heinous high-profile murders here during the last couple of years that were perpetrated by illegals from south of our border and the gang problem is growing right along with our illegal alien problem.

You can cry racism all you want but it's the facts of life that have people mad and the legal Hispanics here are just as mad as the native-born whites and blacks about this because they're tired of people wondering whether they're legal or not just because our federal government has allowed and encouraged so many illegals to come here and upset the apple-cart.

[ConstitutionGal]

Exactly! Language is one of the most free things we have. I'm learning Romanian right now, learning a new language changes your mind in so many ways! :)

I think the problem with the language issue is that people don't want to pay for every government document to be printed in 50 different languages. Just 20 years ago, ALL immigrants who came here quickly learned functional English because they had no choice. Now, we kowtow to them by producing everything under the sun in their native languages which only prolongs any chance of assimilation. Language is one of the few cohesive factors in our nation and we are quickly becoming balkanized along linguistic lines which is not good for our Nation on the whole.

[gaazn]

Exactly! Language is one of the most free things we have. I'm learning Romanian right now, learning a new language changes your mind in so many ways! :)

If people who do come here legally do not wish to learn the language, great. It'll put them at a disadvantage. Its their choice. Learning English is an evolutionary advantage if you'll be in the USA. :D If they don't wish to, then what are you going to do, force someone to understand what you're saying? :rolleyes:

I do think, of course, that people should come to this country legally. Citizenship is necessary for the function of a country. We're talking about an organized society, of course. If the laws are just and respecting of the inherent sovereignty of the individual human being, then citizenship would be a positive thing.



at one point long ago, this country almost became german-speaking. i agree that language is one of the most free things we have. the freedom to speak and write in whatever language we want, and use whatever language is appropriate in business or put signs up in whatever languages we want on our private property. i think it is a good thing that people in this country can have ethnic neighborhoods with signs other than english.

mitt romney is right when he says the family unit is a very important part of the future of this country. it is the people and their family that should decide which language they want to use, not english-speaking families or their neighbors, and definitely not the federal government.

[gaazn]

I think the problem with the language issue is that people don't want to pay for every government document to be printed in 50 different languages. Just 20 years ago, ALL immigrants who came here quickly learned functional English because they had no choice. Now, we kowtow to them by producing everything under the sun in their native languages which only prolongs any chance of assimilation. Language is one of the few cohesive factors in our nation and we are quickly becoming balkanized along linguistic lines which is not good for our Nation on the whole.


the federal, state, and local government can set standards of english or any other language to be used in forms. or in any government function. but the argument many illegal immigrant bashers here are using is that they don't like the illegal immigrants because they are not assimilating and not learning or using english. everyone assumes we are being balkanized but is chinatown or little italy seceding from the union? let the people be and don't try to tell them how they should speak or act. to borrow from RP, how would you like it if the a chinese person tells you you must speak chinese.

[fireworks_god]

The most wonderful thing about this country is that it has a rich heritage of being a melting pot of freedom! :)

Ron Paul will restore America to its God-given glory! :)

[ConstitutionGal]

the federal, state, and local government can set standards of english or any other language to be used in forms. or in any government function. but the argument many illegal immigrant bashers here are using is that they don't like the illegal immigrants because they are not assimilating and not learning or using english. everyone assumes we are being balkanized but is chinatown or little italy seceding from the union? let the people be and don't try to tell them how they should speak or act. to borrow from RP, how would you like it if the a chinese person tells you you must speak chinese.


If I move to China, I would EXPECT to have to be able to converse and conduct business in Chinese. Period. The issue here isn't whether anyone cares what language someone speaks in their home or in their business. The problem is whether the taxpayers should have to foot the bill to accomdate every person who comes here in their native languages. This isn't free market - it's government mandates and judges legislating from the bench. Making English the 'official language' only ensures that all governemnt and basic public school courses are conducted in English.

A very nice lady I know was born in Mexico (Mexican father, American mother). When the family moved here, the father had to FIGHT with the school system to get his children out of the ESL (English as a Second Language) classes because he realized that to suceed here, his children needed to be proficient in English. My friend tells me that in about 3 months, she and all her sibling were pretty fluent in English simply because her father refused to let them use their native language as a crutch. Sadly, the ILLEGALS are the main ones who want their children taught in their native languages as the LEGAL ones want to assimilate and have their children BE Americans. Another point is that last year the Nashville schools had a 12 million budget shortfall and taxes were raised to cover it. Want to guess at the cost of the ESL classes in the Nashville public schools that year?

[gaazn]

If I move to China, I would EXPECT to have to be able to converse and conduct business in Chinese. Period. The issue here isn't whether anyone cares what language someone speaks in their home or in their business. The problem is whether the taxpayers should have to foot the bill to accomdate every person who comes here in their native languages. This isn't free market - it's government mandates and judges legislating from the bench. Making English the 'official language' only ensures that all governemnt and basic public school courses are conducted in English.

A very nice lady I know was born in Mexico (Mexican father, American mother). When the family moved here, the father had to FIGHT with the school system to get his children out of the ESL (English as a Second Language) classes because he realized that to suceed here, his children needed to be proficient in English. My friend tells me that in about 3 months, she and all her sibling were pretty fluent in English simply because her father refused to let them use their native language as a crutch. Sadly, the ILLEGALS are the main ones who want their children taught in their native languages as the LEGAL ones want to assimilate and have their children BE Americans. Another point is that last year the Nashville schools had a 12 million budget shortfall and taxes were raised to cover it. Want to guess at the cost of the ESL classes in the Nashville public schools that year?



there are two issues here. some of the people who are upset literally want people to assimilate privately and learn to speak and use english privately. having said that, youre upset about the other issue: things like government forms in english due to costs. no one points out that that non-english speaking people pay taxes too. they pay income taxes and sales taxes and property taxes (directly or indirectly by rent). many illegal immigrants are paying social security taxes that they will never get back because they are illegal, and guess you gets their money? Citizens like you. in places where there is only english forms, non-english people support the local economy by hiring lawyers and advisers to help them fill out their forms. so it's not like non-english speaking people are robbing anyone.

people should be free to decide whether they want to exclusively use their languages or not. and know the consequences of their choices. that's what freedom is. it's not you, me, or the government telling them how they should act or whether they should be successful or not. in fact, many of the most successful people conduct business exclusively in a non-english language.

[ConstitutionGal]

there are two issues here. some of the people who are upset literally want people to assimilate privately and learn to speak and use english privately. having said that, youre upset about the other issue: things like government forms in english due to costs. no one points out that that non-english speaking people pay taxes too. they pay income taxes and sales taxes and property taxes (directly or indirectly by rent). many illegal immigrants are paying social security taxes that they will never get back because they are illegal, and guess you gets their money? Citizens like you. in places where there is only english forms, non-english people support the local economy by hiring lawyers and advisers to help them fill out their forms. so it's not like non-english speaking people are robbing anyone.

people should be free to decide whether they want to exclusively use their languages or not. and know the consequences of their choices. that's what freedom is. it's not you, me, or the government telling them how they should act or whether they should be successful or not. in fact, many of the most successful people conduct business exclusively in a non-english language.

Looks like I'm going to have to keep disagreeing here. Fact one is that a great many illegal aliens are working for cash and, therefore, pay no payroll taxes. Fact two (as I pointed out in a previous post) is that many of these illegals live more than one family to a dwelling, thereby skewing the property tax base. Fact three is that, according the U.S. Census bureau, recent legal immigrants and most all illegal immigrants are a drain of upwards of $26,000 EACH on our economy each every year and this doesn't take into consideration the large amounts of money that are wired out of our country each year (money wires from the U. S. are the largest source of income in Mexico even surpassing their government-owned oil industry).

Bottom line - if people want to come here, they need to take a number, get in line and do it legally or stay the heck out. Also, if they want to come here, they need to want to be Americans - not Mexicans or Chinese or Saudis or whatever simply living in the U.S. and if they don't want to do these things, it should not place ANY burden on the U.S. taxpayer.

[fireworks_god]

Great post. Citizenship is necessary for the health and security of our country, as long as the laws are just and respectful of the sovereignty of the individual.

[majinkoola]

Being from Arizona, I'm happy other states are starting to realize the problem. The solution is strong border security + no birthright citizenship + state's rights, that's all that needs to happen.

Arizona recently passed laws putting sanctions on employers who hire illegal immigrants. Thus, a good size portion of the illegal population has been migrating to other states and to Mexico, I've seen it.

Now putting sanctions on employers is obviously the worst way to go. It costs them money and is a drain, but the net is a plus for the economy. The Federal Gov't should allow states to decide if they want to provide free education and health care for illegal immigrants. I imagine most states would not provide those things, and the ones that do would change their mind after their taxes and insurance skyrockets and there is massive flight out of the state.

[ConstitutionGal]

Being from Arizona, I'm happy other states are starting to realize the problem. The solution is strong border security + no birthright citizenship + state's rights, that's all that needs to happen.

Arizona recently passed laws putting sanctions on employers who hire illegal immigrants. Thus, a good size portion of the illegal population has been migrating to other states and to Mexico, I've seen it.

Now putting sanctions on employers is obviously the worst way to go. It costs them money and is a drain, but the net is a plus for the economy. The Federal Gov't should allow states to decide if they want to provide free education and health care for illegal immigrants. I imagine most states would not provide those things, and the ones that do would change their mind after their taxes and insurance skyrockets and there is massive flight out of the state.

Arizona, beginning with Prop. 200, has been an inspiration to us all. While going after the employers may not be the best idea, it is probably the quickest effective method of beginning to deal with the problem as the possibility jobs is often the intial draw that brings illegals here. We say the hugh influx of illegal here in TN when our idiot legislature decided to let them get driver's licenses. Thankfully, we were finally able to stop that asinine practice but, because they can find work, get medical care and have their children educated here (even though over 50% drop out before graduation), we're not seeing the illegals actually leaving the state yet. As a matter of fact, Georgia recently tightened up their laws (the ones that aren't federally mandated like health care and education) so we're seeing a lot of their illegal problem become our illegal problem.

[noztnac]

I have a friend in SC, he is a Fredhead but says if Fred quits and Ron is in the top 3, he will join us. His son is already on board with RP, by the way.

This friend has one issue - IMMIGRATION.

It has caused some real economic havoc in SC, or at least that is my friend's point of view, so for what it is worth, I think this is the issue to hit and hit HARD in SC.

About the only way Ron Paul could lose my vote is if he turned into Tancredo on immigration. Honestly, I'm not particularly comfortable with Ron Paul's immigration policy now but I let it slide because I agree with him on almost everything else.
I'm from South Carolina, vote in South Carolina, and consider myself more Libertarian than Ron Paul just so you know where I'm coming from.

[alexa doherty]

dont be parsing my statements. together its one idea. youre worse than the neocons on fox.

I hate neocons. Your policies on illegals remind me of them though. Just like Bush's policy. Very socialistic and democrat style.

[Minuteman2008]

That's bullshit! I went to high school in Conway and lived in Charleston. The only people that hate the immigrants are racist assholes.

What people do not like is people on welfare. Usually the immigrants are legal, working, and not on welfare. The people on welfare tend to be people born here.

Enough of this attack on immigrants. Many come here legally. The ones who are here illegally need to be sent home, but we don't want to be racist jerks about it.


Believing in the rule of law and wanting it applied equally is not racism. Your argument would go over great among Hillary and Obama supporters, though.

The largest amount of racism I see is from special interest ethnic lobbies demanding special treatment because of the color of their skin, not citizens who want the law enforced.

Oh,
And nobody is talking about immigrants. The focus is on illegal aliens. No need to try to obfuscate that.

[Minuteman2008]

I hate neocons. Your policies on illegals remind me of them though. Just like Bush's policy. Very socialistic and democrat style.

Neocons ARE liberals on social issues and spending. There really is no difference.

[Minuteman2008]

there are two issues here. some of the people who are upset literally want people to assimilate privately and learn to speak and use english privately. having said that, youre upset about the other issue: things like government forms in english due to costs. no one points out that that non-english speaking people pay taxes too. they pay income taxes and sales taxes and property taxes (directly or indirectly by rent). many illegal immigrants are paying social security taxes that they will never get back because they are illegal, and guess you gets their money? Citizens like you. in places where there is only english forms, non-english people support the local economy by hiring lawyers and advisers to help them fill out their forms. so it's not like non-english speaking people are robbing anyone.

people should be free to decide whether they want to exclusively use their languages or not. and know the consequences of their choices. that's what freedom is. it's not you, me, or the government telling them how they should act or whether they should be successful or not. in fact, many of the most successful people conduct business exclusively in a non-english language.

OBVIOUSLY, individuals can speak whatever language they want. It is a blessing for a person to be bilingual, but divisive for a nation.

I think having English as a national language is just something that brings us together as one people; being able to communicate with each other, we are less likely to divide into balkanized communities, which is what is happening in a lot of areas.

But, sure, speak whatever language you want. But if we're to have an immigration policy for the benefit of the nation, then encouraging or requiring knowledge of the English language is not at all unreasonable. It is not a human right to immigrate to the United States.

[thisisgiparti]

Talking about illegal immigrants being ineligible for social service programs is more pandering worthy of either parties' candidates. Our government allows birthright citizenship for any child born on American soil no matter both parents' nationality. That child is then eligible for social service programs. Our government forces hospitals to give free medical care to anyone. Our border guards are in the Middle East.

A national ID card will not solve our illegal immigration problem any better than it will deter terrorists. It is only a matter of time before an ID ceases to be "tamper-proof." A lack of proper ID is not what drives terrorism or a broken immigration system. People don't mind "living in the shadows" where there's a buck to be made, either.

The fence is stupid and insulting. BOTH borders should be heavily protected by trained border patrol agents.

France, Australia, Ireland, NZ and the UK have moved away from jus solis over the past decade without causing a public uproar. When countries adopt these immigration policies, it's because they are short of labor force. The US does not have this problem, unless it means to continue war spanning another generation. Given the post-911 "arc of invisibility" our military has operated under, nearly doubling our "footprints" around the world and most particularly in third world countries with key oil reserves , I imagine there will be plenty more war.

I would caution anyone with a vote to think long and hard before casting it for a career politician who will indefinitely occupy Iraq, expand that war in a misguided belief that bombing countries solves a terrorist threat, progressively work at stripping away more of your civil liberties, continue our current immigration policy even if that pays lip service to compassion and then talks about investigating alternative energy sources. That sort of "straight talk" is double talk.