PDA

View Full Version : Why I'm frustrated...




coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 02:03 AM
For starters, I want to thank all of the RP Iowa supporters that turned out and voted.

I will say I have been pretty mad since the results started coming in. My anger is only with the RP National Campaign, not the supporters.
At the beginning of October, the National Campaign set a goal of $12 million and the reason was "to win Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina".
They said $12 million "to win Iowa...", I don't see 5th place in Iowa as winning.
Here is why: Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with 1305 votes.
Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with about 9% of the votes.
So far today, Ron Paul has finished, with 96% reporting, the Iowa Caucus in 5th place and with only about 10% of the vote, that's not a great increase.
John McCain placed 2ND to LAST in the Iowa Straw Poll with only 101 votes.
Fred Thompson placed 7th in the Iowa Straw Poll, given he wasn't even declared at the time.
How is it that John McCain who wasn't even trying betting on Iowa was able to beat Ron Paul today? John McCain left Iowa today and went back to New Hampshire before the results and votes for Iowa were even known...a man that didn't care about winning in Iowa beats Ron Paul? The only thing I can think of would be an ineptness of the National HQ to communicate with the people of Iowa.
I also don't see Ron Paul beating Rudy Giuliani in Iowa as something to celebrate a lot of either, Rudy Giuliani has hardly campaigned in Iowa and he wasn't even in Iowa this week. So to celebrate beating a guy that didn't care if he won Iowa or not is ridiculous IMHO.

We should be asking the National HQ what their strategy was.
If National HQ was actually trying to win in Iowa, they should let us know what their definition of "to win" is.
We the grassroots need to know how much money the National HQ used in Iowa, if they used more than Huckabee, more than Fred Thompson and more than John McCain...then clearly where/how they used it didn't work.

My gripes and anger are again, with the National HQ and have been for a while now. The fact that the grassroots is basically getting Ron Paul in the news with basically no help from his campaign is absolutely ridiculous. The grassroots has the Blimp (http://ronpaulblimp.com/), the money bombs, sign waves, airplane flyovers at events, it has the GrannyWarriors (http://grannywarriors.com/) driving around the country...the National HQ took over two months to decide whether RP should go on Glenn Beck, that is ridiculous.

I'm using my anger at HQ to hang signs tomorrow and spread the word! You can be angry, just use it for something positive!

Naraku
01-04-2008, 02:05 AM
Honestly, I think people out to realize you can only go so far talking about the constitution and how war is bad. Immigration and the economy are Paul's strongest suits, and the biggest issues for Iowans, yet they went for the two people who are probably the worse on both issues.

Karsten
01-04-2008, 02:13 AM
For starters, I want to thank all of the RP Iowa supporters that turned out and voted.

I will say I have been pretty mad since the results started coming in. My anger is only with the RP National Campaign, not the supporters.
At the beginning of October, the National Campaign set a goal of $12 million and the reason was "to win Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina".
They said $12 million "to win Iowa...", I don't see 5th place in Iowa as winning.
Here is why: Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with 1305 votes.
Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with about 9% of the votes.
So far today, Ron Paul has finished, with 96% reporting, the Iowa Caucus in 5th place and with only about 10% of the vote, that's not a great increase.
John McCain placed 2ND to LAST in the Iowa Straw Poll with only 101 votes.
Fred Thompson placed 7th in the Iowa Straw Poll, given he wasn't even declared at the time.
How is it that John McCain who wasn't even trying betting on Iowa was able to beat Ron Paul today? John McCain left Iowa today and went back to New Hampshire before the results and votes for Iowa were even known...a man that didn't care about winning in Iowa beats Ron Paul? The only thing I can think of would be an ineptness of the National HQ to communicate with the people of Iowa.
I also don't see Ron Paul beating Rudy Giuliani in Iowa as something to celebrate a lot of either, Rudy Giuliani has hardly campaigned in Iowa and he wasn't even in Iowa this week. So to celebrate beating a guy that didn't care if he won Iowa or not is ridiculous IMHO.

We should be asking the National HQ what their strategy was.
If National HQ was actually trying to win in Iowa, they should let us know what their definition of "to win" is.
We the grassroots need to know how much money the National HQ used in Iowa, if they used more than Huckabee, more than Fred Thompson and more than John McCain...then clearly where/how they used it didn't work.

My gripes and anger are again, with the National HQ and have been for a while now. The fact that the grassroots is basically getting Ron Paul in the news with basically no help from his campaign is absolutely ridiculous. The grassroots has the Blimp, the money bombs, sign waves, airplane flyovers at events, it has the GrannyWarriors driving around the country...the National HQ took over two months to decide whether RP should go on Glenn Beck, that is ridiculous.

I'm starting to agree with this campaign bashing. This may be negativity, but it's HONEST negativity. Early in November we already had made 8 million for the quarter, meeting our November goal almost a month early (do to the Nov 5 money bomb). That is in ADDITIOn to the 5 million they had on hand from the 3rd quarter. They had the POWER to run a campaign in Iowa that could have been SEVERAL TIMES BIGGER than Huckabee's. They didn't. They have been frugal. They want to keep their money for the long haul, and it's come back to bite them.

Richandler
01-04-2008, 02:20 AM
The campaign had nothing to do with it. The media labelled Paul in the mind of so many voters that it hard to recover from that kinda of outright dismissal.

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 02:21 AM
The Ron Paul supporters are the best and most passionate in the world...the MAINSTREAM MEDIA even acknowledges this. The one thing we the supporters DON'T have, is a National HQ that knows what it is doing. If we had direction, we would have swept at least 3rd in Iowa. There is nothing stopping Ron Paul but his campaign.

driller80545
01-04-2008, 02:23 AM
I agree. It is time for the campaign HQ to make some noise. End the tv blackout, it is ridiculous. Make some news, and they will put you on the news.
And stop using these crappy commercials and use the grassroots. They have created some fantastic commercials, and are trying to run them on their own. What is up with that. Come on HQ, lets win this thing. Get it in gear.

ThePieSwindler
01-04-2008, 02:24 AM
Its not even all of HQ that i have problems with. Parts of HQ are incredibly competent and really kick ass. Others (media/ads)... not so much, though i will admit they have run some decent ads that iv eliked, they need to market better in places like, say, SC!!

However, for all we know, much of the success of Iowa IS derived from HQ's efforst. They could have done better, definately, but are they wholly incompetent? I don't think so, at all.



PS is there a way we can get Drew Ivers to move to SC for a month or so :-D

josh24601
01-04-2008, 02:25 AM
I'm too tired and about to go to sleep but this is what I think of Campaign bashing:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=74560

driller80545
01-04-2008, 02:25 AM
The campaign had nothing to do with it. The media labelled Paul in the mind of so many voters that it hard to recover from that kinda of outright dismissal.

And HQ should have stood up and loudly denied the labels and spouted out some truth. But they didn't do anything.

justinc.1089
01-04-2008, 02:27 AM
You know what else is extremely frustrating?

The official campaign will not be reading any of this, nor will they be correcting it.

They are very ineffective, and swim in money. And they apparently disregard important states like Iowa and SC. SC I KNOW has been disregarded to the extent that a win here is almost impossible now.

The grassroots has carried the campaign the entire way. Getting a 5th place finish solely from grassroots power is tremendous. But there is a staff supposed to be doing something...... but they're just swimming in money ignoring SC, and as a result the grassroots also thinks its ok to ignore SC, even acting like Michigan is more important?

This entire situation is discouraging. Its like there's a revolution out there that can't communicate, and has become 1000 little skirmishes instead of 1 revolution.

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 02:27 AM
I agree. It is time for the campaign HQ to make some noise. End the tv blackout, it is ridiculous. Make some news, and they will put you on the news.
And stop using these crappy commercials and use the grassroots. They have created some fantastic commercials, and are trying to run them on their own. What is up with that. Come on HQ, lets win this thing. Get it in gear.

The front page of Drudge had an article talking about Mike Huckabee's Campaign Chairman saying he wanted to punch out Romney's teeth...I don't agree with that message at all, but it made the news! For crying out loud, National HQ do something !!
The staffers at the National HQ don't even have Ron Paul bumper stickers on their CARS! Who are these people that are working there?!

derdy
01-04-2008, 02:28 AM
The American populace is influenced by headlines and 30 second sound bites on the MSM media which is blasted at them endlessly through radios, tv's, and newspaper day after day. When these many outles of media are controlled by 5 giant corporations and they don't want to play with you, you have a big fight on your hands.

So let me ask this. For the people that are complaining, are you a precinct captain in your voting precinct? Are you canvassing your precinct, making phone calls etc.

You can't expect HQ to do everything. Focus on YOUR precinct and getting out the vote there and we're golden ;)

ThePieSwindler
01-04-2008, 02:29 AM
This entire situation is discouraging. Its like there's a revolution out there that can't communicate, and has become 1000 little skirmishes instead of 1 revolution.

There is! Its called the FEC :p

justinc.1089
01-04-2008, 02:30 AM
Its not even all of HQ that i have problems with. Parts of HQ are incredibly competent and really kick ass. Others (media/ads)... not so much, though i will admit they have run some decent ads that iv eliked, they need to market better in places like, say, SC!!

However, for all we know, much of the success of Iowa IS derived from HQ's efforst. They could have done better, definately, but are they wholly incompetent? I don't think so, at all.



PS is there a way we can get Drew Ivers to move to SC for a month or so :-D

Here in SC, other than radio ads and mail fliers, the campaign is completely incompetent. We're lucky just to communicate with them, much less to see that they are doing anything here.

And 1 time, I even had a dream that there was a Ron Paul television ad here. But then I awoke to the reality that there will never be 1 Paul tv ad aired here now.

justinc.1089
01-04-2008, 02:33 AM
The American populace is influenced by headlines and 30 second sound bites on the MSM media which is blasted at them endlessly through radios, tv's, and newspaper day after day. When these many outles of media are controlled by 5 giant corporations and they don't want to play with you, you have a big fight on your hands.

So let me ask this. For the people that are complaining, are you a precinct captain in your voting precinct? Are you canvassing your precinct, making phone calls etc.

You can't expect HQ to do everything. Focus on YOUR precinct and getting out the vote there and we're golden ;)

Yeah, I am. I'm doing everything. WE HAVE DONE EVERYTHING. If you think the campaign has done this, you must be kidding yourself. They're completely incompetent.

Do you honestly believe not having a single, as in not even ONE, television advertisement ran in South Carolina before our primary is competent? Honestly?

They needed to have ads running here like a month ago because Paul had a shot here. But due to the severe neglect from an incompetent campaign Paul winning SC is now an impossibility. The best we can hope for here is 2nd place, which is why the grassroots needs to wake up and make CERTAIN that we WIN New Hampshire and place 2nd in SC.

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 02:33 AM
The American populace is influenced by headlines and 30 second sound bites on the MSM media which is blasted at them endlessly through radios, tv's, and newspaper day after day. When these many outles of media are controlled by 5 giant corporations and they don't want to play with you, you have a big fight on your hands.

So let me ask this. For the people that are complaining, are you a precinct captain in your voting precinct? Are you canvassing your precinct, making phone calls etc.

You can't expect HQ to do everything. Focus on YOUR precinct and getting out the vote there and we're golden ;)

Yes I am a precinct captain and very involved, but if we think the grassroots can do it all, why did we send RP's campaign the money and why did they ask for "$12 million to win Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina"? As of the Campaign HQ doing EVERYTHING, I haven't seen them do much at all...I would rather donate future funds to the Blimp or the GrannyWarriors...at least I know they are working and making media happen.

josh24601
01-04-2008, 02:36 AM
Posted this in another thread and I will here and go to sleep. Regardless of disagreements we are all for RP and I am glad to know you all.

I gotta get sleep, but I'm very nervous about this impulse within the RP community to call for centralized authoritarian direction at the first sign of panic.

This campaign is about personal liberty and individual accountability. The nanny state will not fix our education problems and a nanny campaign will not yield a 20% surge. Stop looking to a Great Leader to make everything okay.

Dr. Paul purposely has a decentralized type of campaign because the market (us) will always be more powerful and effective than any one group of people.

Channel your angst into positive tangible action and, if everybody else follows the message they seem to be supporting and does likewise, you'll see what you want come better, faster and more efficient than if you leave it up to some group of people in a room somewhere.

That's the great thing about a free market and personal accountability, or didn't you see the Youtube?

driller80545
01-04-2008, 02:37 AM
Yes, I wrote letters to Iowa, I have been to three sign waves here, and I try to inform voters here everyday about the message. I don't think that there is any question about any of the grassroots efforts.

rjl
01-04-2008, 02:39 AM
We are trying to raise money for to run grassroots ads in South Carolina, Michigan, and Nevada. Our target goal is high, but that number will get huge coverage across the state. Jeremiah Black has made some great ads and anyone who wants to see them up in SC can donate to make it happen. Time is short, but this grassroots can do just about everything. Maybe the campaign will be forced to respond if the grassroots starts really making noise with better ads than they're putting out.

Robert

http://www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com

justinc.1089
01-04-2008, 02:39 AM
Well thats nice but when you have a campaign staff that has nearly $20 million dollars and they're not running a single ad in South Carolina something is wrong.......

Seriously wrong.......

They are incompetent, face the reality. Paul has an incompetent campaign staff making monumental mistakes.

And its like I keep saying, if you think mistakes in Iowa were bad wait until SC. I'm very afraid now of whats going to happen in SC.

Karsten
01-04-2008, 02:41 AM
The campaign thought they were being smart by being frugal and thrifty. They wanted to extend their money as far as possible. However, everything is not equal, and the 1st few primaries are MUCH more valuable than the other combined. If I were the campaign, I would have SATURATED the TV in Iowa and New Hampshire with TV ads. For me, it's never been the quality of the TV ads that has bothered me, but the fact that they've been few and far between. They simply aren't spending the 20 million we gave them.

justinc.1089
01-04-2008, 02:41 AM
We are trying to raise money for to run grassroots ads in South Carolina, Michigan, and Nevada. Our target goal is high, but that number will get huge coverage across the state. Jeremiah Black has made some great ads and anyone who wants to see them up in SC can donate to make it happen. Time is short, but this grassroots can do just about everything. Maybe the campaign will be forced to respond if the grassroots starts really making noise with better ads than they're putting out.

Robert

http://www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com

And you know what? Since the campaign has proven they are so incompetent people need to quit donating to the campaign and donate to the grassroots instead.

Can we get the next moneybombs aimed to grassroots projects instead please? Seriously?

The campaign has done NOTHING except place in 5th with all the record breaking amounts of money we have raised for them.

justinc.1089
01-04-2008, 02:42 AM
The campaign thought they were being smart by being frugal and thrifty. They wanted to extend their money as far as possible. However, everything is not equal, and the 1st few primaries are MUCH more valuable than the other combined. If I were the campaign, I would have SATURATED the TV in Iowa and New Hampshire with TV ads. For me, it's never been the quality of the TV ads that has bothered me, but the fact that they've been few and far between. They simply aren't spending the 20 million we gave them.

You know NO tv ads are running in SC right?

Karsten
01-04-2008, 02:43 AM
You know NO tv ads are running in SC right?

No, I actually didn't know this. What the hell are they doing????????????????

justinc.1089
01-04-2008, 02:49 AM
No, I actually didn't know this. What the hell are they doing????????????????

Nothing, well maybe swimming in money idk. They won't help us with door to door efforts either. We told them if they actually do something here let us know because thats great, but if not we just have to do something ourselves and help would be great.

The only things happening from the official campaign in SC is a little radio, not as much as Romney or Huckabee, and there used to be good mailing going on, but its stopped coming to me lately, so I'm thinking they may be falling down on that too now.

But they give us plenty of signs and slimjims.......:rolleyes::)

driller80545
01-04-2008, 02:49 AM
I agree that the grassroots funding seems to be much more effective.

Ben Elliott
01-04-2008, 02:49 AM
And you know what? Since the campaign has proven they are so incompetent people need to quit donating to the campaign and donate to the grassroots instead.

Can we get the next moneybombs aimed to grassroots projects instead please? Seriously?

The campaign has done NOTHING except place in 5th with all the record breaking amounts of money we have raised for them.

I have been promoting this idea also. If we have a money bomb for the grassroots projects, they would be some of the most powerful political machines in the nation. We could own this country.

Let's rethink the way we gain support for Ron Paul on a mass scale.

Karsten
01-04-2008, 02:52 AM
We raised 20 million, which is HUGE!!!!!!! This is probably more than ANY OTHER GOP CANDIDATE!!! And the campaign is still spending and acting like a second tier campaign!!!! What...the....HECK!!!!

Karsten
01-04-2008, 02:53 AM
I have been promoting this idea also. If we have a money bomb for the grassroots projects, they would be some of the most powerful political machines in the nation. We could own this country.

Let's rethink the way we gain support for Ron Paul on a mass scale.

Well let's not just talk about it, let's DO IT!!! Let's have a massive money bomb soon to fundraise grassroots projects for super tuesday states.

driller80545
01-04-2008, 02:56 AM
Well let's not just talk about it, let's DO IT!!! Let's have a massive money bomb soon to fundraise grassroots projects for super tuesday states.

I will support this idea with a donation. I feel that I will get more bang for my buck from the grassroots.

jabrownie
01-04-2008, 03:00 AM
Might also get the campaign's attention...

If you haven't checked out these ad's yet, they are freakin awesome, put together by the grassroots. If ya love em like I do, help get them on the airwaves.

http://www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com/index.html

driller80545
01-04-2008, 03:12 AM
These are very good. I will support as many of them as I can with my donations. Well done!

FreedomProsperityPeace
01-04-2008, 03:15 AM
And you know what? Since the campaign has proven they are so incompetent people need to quit donating to the campaign and donate to the grassroots instead.

Can we get the next moneybombs aimed to grassroots projects instead please? Seriously?


I think this is a good idea. Get the money bomb guys to head the grassroots effort and dole out the money where it is needed.

Bradley in DC
01-04-2008, 03:15 AM
The Ron Paul supporters are the best and most passionate in the world...the MAINSTREAM MEDIA even acknowledges this. The one thing we the supporters DON'T have, is a National HQ that knows what it is doing. If we had direction, we would have swept at least 3rd in Iowa. There is nothing stopping Ron Paul but his campaign.

+1

jorlowitz
01-04-2008, 03:24 AM
Comparing the caucus to Ames doesn't hold up... the issue has always been whether Paul's extremely enthusiastic "core" support could hold up in a larger venue. IT DID. The fact that adding tens of THOUSANDS more Iowans to the picture didn't change RP's numbers shows that a) there are a lot more than a mere fringe of supporters and b) he caught on with a substantial group of Iowans. That is not trivial and not necessarily a BOMB from the campaign. Plus, he only missed third by a few hundred votes. It wasn't a far out 5th by any means. He's just as much in it today as he was yesterday; considering Iowa's main job is to weed out candidates who can't cut it (richardson, biden, dodd, kucinich) Paul is looking pretty good for a "long shot". NH should be better anyway...

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 04:05 AM
5th isn't a win...the only people that lost to RP were Giliani(who wasn't even campaigning in Iowa) and Duncan Hunter, how is that a win? Maybe that's what the campaign thinks is a win...but for $12 million asked to win and coming in 5th is horrendous in my opinion.

I just hope that RP places 1st in New Hampshire and 1st in South Carolina, if not, he needs to drop out and go buy an island so we can all move to it.

Paulitician
01-04-2008, 04:09 AM
5th isn't a win...the only people that lost to RP were Giliani(who wasn't even campaigning in Iowa) and Duncan Hunter, how is that a win? Maybe that's what the campaign thinks is a win...but for $12 million asked to win and coming in 5th is horrendous in my opinion.
Exactly. And we didn't exceed the polls. They had us consistently at 9 and 10%.

I'm not extremely disappointed with the 11k but we could have gotten 15k and therefore 3rd place easily.

jupiter
01-04-2008, 04:10 AM
I have to agree with the OP partially. 10% is not too shabby in Iowa, but what I am very surprised about is that the MSM polls indicated (approximately) this level of support. The actual number includes all of the "extra" votes that were to be derived from independents, first-timers, etc.

It would really be nice if HQ were to communicate their precise strategy for victory. At the minimum, as an ardent RP supporter I would feel more comfortable with the knowledge that there actually _is_ a victory strategy.

liberty_Forever
01-04-2008, 04:27 AM
derdy: do you have link to become precinct captain?

JohnnyWrath
01-04-2008, 04:30 AM
How is it that John McCain who wasn't even trying betting on Iowa was able to beat Ron Paul today?

Every Newspaper in Iowa just about is officially endorsing McCain.

dude58677
01-04-2008, 04:35 AM
When Ron Paul is around conservatives, he should have spent all of his time talking about abolishing the IRS and repealing all gun laws. When he was around democrats, he should have talked about his non-interventionist foreign policy and eliminating the Patriot Act. HE DID THE OPPOSITE!

Benaiah
01-04-2008, 04:49 AM
I agree that we should stop sending money to the campaign, and instead send it to grassroots. The problem with a money bomb, however, is that it's a little late in the game. SC needs money now. NV needs money now.


If the campaign releasing Q4 stats and shows that they are sitting on $13-18 million cash on hand....... I'm going to be livid. They started Q4 with $5 million cash on hand, we sent them $20.

How much you want to bet that they still have over $15million on hand?

DowntownGator
01-04-2008, 05:18 AM
An audit certainly would seem like a reasonable request at some time in the future. However, that time is not now, IMO.

I readily admit that it was probably not the wisest thing to do to publish a promise on the web "12 million to win Iowa." That statement in fact made me reluctant to donate in the first place, but I did. I realized they couldn't promise a win - that's ridiculous - so I gave according to my conscience. Iowa is important, but seriously, how many people here expected to WIN Iowa?

From what Ron Paul has said about the money, the campaign does have a plan and they recognize the money needs to be spent. I understand the plan is to focus its efforts on Super Tuesday, complete with a market saturation on a grand scale. $20m won't last long buying up T.V. space in multiple markets, and therefore it needs to be available for advertising right before Super Tuesday in order to have its best effect on the voters, who typically only remember the last 36 hours. The recency effect is a very real phenomena, and, coupled with market saturation right before Super Tuesday, such a plan does not seem incompetent at all.

All that being said, if we don't see some clear evidence of the money being spent, an voluntary audit would certainly be justified. The campaign owes that to its supporters.

Remember, it's only Iowa, and Ron Paul got 10%. Recognize he is still rising in the polls!

Let's work on getting him into all of the debates!

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 11:08 AM
Why is it the official website hasn't even been updated yet? A simple thanks to the Iowans that turned out to vote would be nice...encouragement to the others in NH hopefully saying "Sorry we dropped the corn in Iowa, we will TAKE THIS TO THE WHITE HOUSE...YEAH!!" I mean something...anything. Ineptness.

wgadget
01-04-2008, 11:14 AM
For starters, I want to thank all of the RP Iowa supporters that turned out and voted.

I will say I have been pretty mad since the results started coming in. My anger is only with the RP National Campaign, not the supporters.
At the beginning of October, the National Campaign set a goal of $12 million and the reason was "to win Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina".
They said $12 million "to win Iowa...", I don't see 5th place in Iowa as winning.
Here is why: Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with 1305 votes.
Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with about 9% of the votes.
So far today, Ron Paul has finished, with 96% reporting, the Iowa Caucus in 5th place and with only about 10% of the vote, that's not a great increase.
John McCain placed 2ND to LAST in the Iowa Straw Poll with only 101 votes.
Fred Thompson placed 7th in the Iowa Straw Poll, given he wasn't even declared at the time.
How is it that John McCain who wasn't even trying betting on Iowa was able to beat Ron Paul today? John McCain left Iowa today and went back to New Hampshire before the results and votes for Iowa were even known...a man that didn't care about winning in Iowa beats Ron Paul? The only thing I can think of would be an ineptness of the National HQ to communicate with the people of Iowa.
I also don't see Ron Paul beating Rudy Giuliani in Iowa as something to celebrate a lot of either, Rudy Giuliani has hardly campaigned in Iowa and he wasn't even in Iowa this week. So to celebrate beating a guy that didn't care if he won Iowa or not is ridiculous IMHO.

We should be asking the National HQ what their strategy was.
If National HQ was actually trying to win in Iowa, they should let us know what their definition of "to win" is.
We the grassroots need to know how much money the National HQ used in Iowa, if they used more than Huckabee, more than Fred Thompson and more than John McCain...then clearly where/how they used it didn't work.

My gripes and anger are again, with the National HQ and have been for a while now. The fact that the grassroots is basically getting Ron Paul in the news with basically no help from his campaign is absolutely ridiculous. The grassroots has the Blimp (http://ronpaulblimp.com/), the money bombs, sign waves, airplane flyovers at events, it has the GrannyWarriors (http://grannywarriors.com/) driving around the country...the National HQ took over two months to decide whether RP should go on Glenn Beck, that is ridiculous.

I'm using my anger at HQ to hang signs tomorrow and spread the word! You can be angry, just use it for something positive!

Some of them, like McCain and Thompson, visited a lot more places than Dr. Paul. Check it out:

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/schedules/pastevents/index.html#candidate14

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 11:34 AM
Some of them, like McCain and Thompson, visited a lot more places than Dr. Paul. Check it out:

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/schedules/pastevents/index.html#candidate14

McCain though wasn't even betting on Iowa. He had pretty much given up hope on Iowa and is concentrating on NH. For the campaign to ask for $12 million and then lose in Iowa to a man that placed 2nd to last in the straw poll is ridiculous. The fact that the campaign website hasn't even been updated with a "Thanks Iowans, now we are building momentum to NH!" is lame IMO.

wgadget
01-04-2008, 11:36 AM
Come on, people...I'm trying to stay positive. This isn't helping.

Maybe the campaign is running a NATIONAL campaign, and is saving some of the hard-earned grassroots money to use nationally, and not all just in IA and NH....

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 11:39 AM
For starters, I want to thank all of the RP Iowa supporters that turned out and voted.

I will say I have been pretty mad since the results started coming in. My anger is only with the RP National Campaign, not the supporters.
At the beginning of October, the National Campaign set a goal of $12 million and the reason was "to win Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina".
They said $12 million "to win Iowa...", I don't see 5th place in Iowa as winning.
Here is why: Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with 1305 votes.
Ron Paul placed 5th in the Iowa Straw poll with about 9% of the votes.
So far today, Ron Paul has finished, with 96% reporting, the Iowa Caucus in 5th place and with only about 10% of the vote, that's not a great increase.
John McCain placed 2ND to LAST in the Iowa Straw Poll with only 101 votes.
Fred Thompson placed 7th in the Iowa Straw Poll, given he wasn't even declared at the time.
How is it that John McCain who wasn't even trying betting on Iowa was able to beat Ron Paul today? John McCain left Iowa today and went back to New Hampshire before the results and votes for Iowa were even known...a man that didn't care about winning in Iowa beats Ron Paul? The only thing I can think of would be an ineptness of the National HQ to communicate with the people of Iowa.
I also don't see Ron Paul beating Rudy Giuliani in Iowa as something to celebrate a lot of either, Rudy Giuliani has hardly campaigned in Iowa and he wasn't even in Iowa this week. So to celebrate beating a guy that didn't care if he won Iowa or not is ridiculous IMHO.

We should be asking the National HQ what their strategy was.
If National HQ was actually trying to win in Iowa, they should let us know what their definition of "to win" is.
We the grassroots need to know how much money the National HQ used in Iowa, if they used more than Huckabee, more than Fred Thompson and more than John McCain...then clearly where/how they used it didn't work.

My gripes and anger are again, with the National HQ and have been for a while now. The fact that the grassroots is basically getting Ron Paul in the news with basically no help from his campaign is absolutely ridiculous. The grassroots has the Blimp (http://ronpaulblimp.com/), the money bombs, sign waves, airplane flyovers at events, it has the GrannyWarriors (http://grannywarriors.com/) driving around the country...the National HQ took over two months to decide whether RP should go on Glenn Beck, that is ridiculous.

I'm using my anger at HQ to hang signs tomorrow and spread the word! You can be angry, just use it for something positive!

I couldn't agree with you more!!!

Question_Authority
01-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Well thats nice but when you have a campaign staff that has nearly $20 million dollars and they're not running a single ad in South Carolina something is wrong.......

Seriously wrong.......

They are incompetent, face the reality. Paul has an incompetent campaign staff making monumental mistakes.

And its like I keep saying, if you think mistakes in Iowa were bad wait until SC. I'm very afraid now of whats going to happen in SC.

DITTO in NH. Although we have had TV commercials...those are NOT what wins in NH. RETAIL POTICKING is what wins in NH. And RP has been slipping in and out virtually unnoticed here for the entire campaign. Romney and McCain have practically been camping here for 8 months. Paul has made maybe 8-10 trips, most under the radar screen with NO big announcement (or last-second announcements).

It has been absolutely MIND-BOGGLING to see how incompetent the campaign is. They have no idea what NH is about.

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 11:42 AM
Its not even all of HQ that i have problems with. Parts of HQ are incredibly competent and really kick ass. Others (media/ads)... not so much, though i will admit they have run some decent ads that iv eliked, they need to market better in places like, say, SC!!

However, for all we know, much of the success of Iowa IS derived from HQ's efforst. They could have done better, definately, but are they wholly incompetent? I don't think so, at all.



PS is there a way we can get Drew Ivers to move to SC for a month or so :-D

No kidding! They could have at least made sure that they had people there to speak on behalf of Ron Paul!! They are sitting back and watching us all bust our asses and work for them! I personally will not give another dime to the campaign until I see what I have already spent wisely. I will continute to donate to grassroots efforts however!

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 11:42 AM
And HQ should have stood up and loudly denied the labels and spouted out some truth. But they didn't do anything.

+100

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 11:44 AM
The staffers at the National HQ don't even have Ron Paul bumper stickers on their CARS! Who are these people that are working there?!

THANK YOU!!!!! They tell us to advertise, but they are to afraid of retaliation. Give me a break. If you can't stand the heat...get out of the kitchen!!! Chicken shits!!

James Henderson
01-04-2008, 11:46 AM
The Paul campaign needs to hire a former media insider with connections.

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 11:47 AM
The American populace is influenced by headlines and 30 second sound bites on the MSM media which is blasted at them endlessly through radios, tv's, and newspaper day after day. When these many outles of media are controlled by 5 giant corporations and they don't want to play with you, you have a big fight on your hands.

So let me ask this. For the people that are complaining, are you a precinct captain in your voting precinct? Are you canvassing your precinct, making phone calls etc.

You can't expect HQ to do everything. Focus on YOUR precinct and getting out the vote there and we're golden ;)


I am a precinct captain, I am canvassing, and I am pissed! How does Huckabee's team do it with no grassroots? How have campaigns been doing it for years? They rely to heavily on us and sit back and get smashed at HQ celebrating DEC 16th as if they had ANYTHING to do with it!!!
"Oh, we called FOX news and they won't respond" Really! So that's it huh? Nice!!

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 11:47 AM
The Paul campaign needs to hire a former media insider with connections.

+100000000 Even some local radio talk show hosts talk about how RP's campaign isn't doing anything and how they(the radio hosts) would be making all these great commercials contrasting RP to the other candidates.

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 11:50 AM
And you know what? Since the campaign has proven they are so incompetent people need to quit donating to the campaign and donate to the grassroots instead.

Can we get the next moneybombs aimed to grassroots projects instead please? Seriously?

The campaign has done NOTHING except place in 5th with all the record breaking amounts of money we have raised for them.

+1000! They want our money, but not our opinions. The campaign staff hasn't done anything to further Ron Paul, it's been ALL grassroots. Let's keep the money with us!

Paul10
01-04-2008, 11:52 AM
....

wgadget
01-04-2008, 11:52 AM
I smell a rebellion...

A Ron Paul Rebellion

WRellim
01-04-2008, 11:59 AM
I have to agree with the OP partially. 10% is not too shabby in Iowa, but what I am very surprised about is that the MSM polls indicated (approximately) this level of support. The actual number includes all of the "extra" votes that were to be derived from independents, first-timers, etc.

It would really be nice if HQ were to communicate their precise strategy for victory. At the minimum, as an ardent RP supporter I would feel more comfortable with the knowledge that there actually _is_ a victory strategy.

Victory Strategy?

Nah, the plan is that there is no plan... get it!

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 12:00 PM
I say we get the "Grassroots Advisory Board" up and running! I have no idea why when this was first brought up it was bashed.

transistor
01-04-2008, 12:01 PM
They should have gone all out in Iowa. If they would have done well, they'd have no problem raising more money

Leslie Webb
01-04-2008, 12:04 PM
How is it that John McCain who wasn't even trying betting on Iowa was able to beat Ron Paul today? John McCain left Iowa today and went back to New Hampshire before the results and votes for Iowa were even known...a man that didn't care about winning in Iowa beats Ron Paul? The only thing I can think of would be an ineptness of the National HQ to communicate with the people of Iowa.
I also don't see Ron Paul beating Rudy Giuliani in Iowa as something to celebrate a lot of either, Rudy Giuliani has hardly campaigned in Iowa and he wasn't even in Iowa this week. So to celebrate beating a guy that didn't care if he won Iowa or not is ridiculous IMHO.


We should point out that Ron had the fewest appearances in Iowa of any of the top six candidates, fewer than McCain or Giuliani. (Thompson got little mileage out of his appearances there. Perhaps if Thompson had had fewer appearances, he would have gotten more votes.) It was Ron not Giuliani who had the "don't focus on Iowa" strategy.

- Paul - 27 Appearances, 11,598 votes
- Giuliani - 35 Appearances, 4,013 votes
- McCain - 38 Appearances, 15,248 votes
- Thompson - 75 Appearances, 15,521 votes
- Huckabee - 86 Appearances, 39,814 votes
- Romney - 109 Appearances, 29,405 votes

Source- Lew Rockwell.com blog today

familydog
01-04-2008, 12:09 PM
I'm all for a grassroots money bomb. We can spend the money better than HQ can apparently.

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 12:14 PM
We should point out that Ron had the fewest appearances in Iowa of any of the top six candidates, fewer than McCain or Giuliani. (Thompson got little mileage out of his appearances there. Perhaps if Thompson had had fewer appearances, he would have gotten more votes.) It was Ron not Giuliani who had the "don't focus on Iowa" strategy.

- Paul - 27 Appearances, 11,598 votes
- Giuliani - 35 Appearances, 4,013 votes
- McCain - 38 Appearances, 15,248 votes
- Thompson - 75 Appearances, 15,521 votes
- Huckabee - 86 Appearances, 39,814 votes
- Romney - 109 Appearances, 29,405 votes

Source- Lew Rockwell.com blog today

So why would the National HQ ask for college students to give up their Christmas breaks if they didn't care about Iowa?

WRellim
01-04-2008, 12:16 PM
We should point out that Ron had the fewest appearances in Iowa of any of the top six candidates, fewer than McCain or Giuliani. (Thompson got little mileage out of his appearances there. Perhaps if Thompson had had fewer appearances, he would have gotten more votes.) It was Ron not Giuliani who had the "don't focus on Iowa" strategy.

- Paul - 27 Appearances, 11,598 votes
- Giuliani - 35 Appearances, 4,013 votes
- McCain - 38 Appearances, 15,248 votes
- Thompson - 75 Appearances, 15,521 votes
- Huckabee - 86 Appearances, 39,814 votes
- Romney - 109 Appearances, 29,405 votes

Source- Lew Rockwell.com blog today

I guess the problem here is that this is cited on LRC as if it is something to be proud of.

Most of Thompson's "Appearances" took place in the last two to three weeks as he was driving around on his bus. At the time I thought that was odd, and only saw that it indicated his low checkbook balance. Turns out NOT to have been such a bad thing for him after all. It got him OUT to be SEEN (or "check marked" by people in towns who DIDN'T actually "see" him, because the news/gossip got around town had to be that "Fred Thompson" had visited).

It's not just Iowan's, but EVERYONE who somehow wants the candidate to "visit" their town -- whether they actually see or talk to the person is relatively unimportant; somehow it is like a matter of small town "Lincoln slept here" type of pride.

Case in point, I lived in a small Great Lakes town that was visited just ONCE by President Ronald Reagan back in like 1986/1987 -- he was there all of 45 minutes to give a speech, flew in by helicopter, driven 3 blocks down from the top of a bluff to give a 30 minute speech, plus 10 minutes of meet & greet with the locals-yokel officials, and then he was outta there... The town now has a "marker" in place to "memorialize" the visit.... Seriously. You'd think their football team had won the state championship or something.

driller80545
01-04-2008, 12:20 PM
Why all this talk about Iowa not being a possible win. RP is christian conservative, economic conservative, social conservative. The campaign did not sell him in Iowa and don't appear to me to be selling him anywhere else either. I am tired of the talk about a tv blackout conspiracy. A good public relations man would jump all over that. He is not on tv because he doesn't make any news. He is not being exposed by the campaign. It is time for this mediocracy to end if RP is really serious about winning this election. He is a good man with a good message, but as in business, no matter how good the product, it doesn't sell itself. Come on campaign, make some noise, makes some news, get to work for christ's sake!

dawnbt
01-04-2008, 12:25 PM
We should point out that Ron had the fewest appearances in Iowa of any of the top six candidates, fewer than McCain or Giuliani. (Thompson got little mileage out of his appearances there. Perhaps if Thompson had had fewer appearances, he would have gotten more votes.) It was Ron not Giuliani who had the "don't focus on Iowa" strategy.

- Paul - 27 Appearances, 11,598 votes
- Giuliani - 35 Appearances, 4,013 votes
- McCain - 38 Appearances, 15,248 votes
- Thompson - 75 Appearances, 15,521 votes
- Huckabee - 86 Appearances, 39,814 votes
- Romney - 109 Appearances, 29,405 votes

Source- Lew Rockwell.com blog today


Look at the difference in this span between Guiliani's votes and McCain and Thompson's!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c323/dbeattie21/RON%20PAUL/71137.jpg

DesignerJoes
01-04-2008, 12:25 PM
yup, we arent going to win any elections behing laptops people, sorry. 1,000,000 youtube videos can be wrong

wgadget
01-04-2008, 12:58 PM
Look at the difference in this span between Guiliani's votes and McCain and Thompson's!

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c323/dbeattie21/RON%20PAUL/71137.jpg

There was a little glitch for a while where they awarded Rudy 3500 votes from one of the counties. They later corrected it. ALthough I can see that this does not add up to 3,500 votes...Hmmmm. Maybe this is another glitch? I wonder how many glitches there were total?

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 01:32 PM
I haven't heard 1 person come out from Iowa and say anything was wrong with the totals.

Paulbearer
01-04-2008, 01:58 PM
I think we are complaining prematurely. To be honest I thought Paul was a long shot in Iowa anyway. Republicans in Iowa will always go for the guy that is waving a cross and that isn't Ron Paul's style and never will be. Also people of Iowa are pragmatic and won't jump for anything they view as a radical shakeup to the system and Ron Paul is against the subsidies that keep most of Iowa in the corn business. Corn is the life blood of Iowa and in some instances literally 'drives' the state. The only thing lost in Iowa is PR.

I positive that Ron Paul can do better in NH. How do we know that the camp doesn't just want to wait everybody else out? Huckabee and Romney were almost broke. Romney will need to cut himself some more checks to stay alive and now he's embarrassed by Iowa, he might shrug it off as those xenophobic evangelicals, but he could be sunk if NH doesn't favor him. Tell me, how are these guys going to be able to compete on super Tuesday unless they get some Ron Paulian-scale donations.

Meanwhile the economics seem to be getting worse in the US. The dollar seems to be devaluing and the costs of everything are increasing every time I visit the grocery store, oil is over $100 a barrel. Do you think that if things continue to get worse people will want to back McCain or put another actor in the white house we did all of that in recent history and it didn't work?

We all know that Ron Paul can beat these other candidates based on logic, principal, and character virtues, we just need to see the field narrow and some positive results in other primary states and the MSM cannot ignore him any longer.

coffeewithchess
01-04-2008, 02:27 PM
I think we are complaining prematurely. To be honest I thought Paul was a long shot in Iowa anyway. Republicans in Iowa will always go for the guy that is waving a cross and that isn't Ron Paul's style and never will be. Also people of Iowa are pragmatic and won't jump for anything they view as a radical shakeup to the system and Ron Paul is against the subsidies that keep most of Iowa in the corn business. Corn is the life blood of Iowa and in some instances literally 'drives' the state. The only thing lost in Iowa is PR.

Meanwhile the economics seem to be getting worse in the US. The dollar seems to be devaluing and the costs of everything are increasing every time I visit the grocery store, oil is over $100 a barrel. Do you think that if things continue to get worse people will want to back McCain or put another actor in the white house we did all of that in recent history and it didn't work?


McCain came out in a debate and said they didn't need subsidies and he still beat RP in Iowa...RP's campaign again asked for "$12 million to win Iowa..." and also asked 150-200 college students to go to Iowa over Christmas break, they got it and I don't see losing to John McCain as winning in Iowa. RP got 9% in the Iowa Straw Poll and barely 10% last night...the results of money spent aren't that great. The campaign needs to explain this.

Karsten
01-04-2008, 02:31 PM
McCain came out in a debate and said they didn't need subsidies and he still beat RP in Iowa...RP's campaign again asked for "$12 million to win Iowa..." and also asked 150-200 college students to go to Iowa over Christmas break, they got it and I don't see losing to John McCain as winning in Iowa. RP got 9% in the Iowa Straw Poll and barely 10% last night...the results of money spent aren't that great. The campaign needs to explain this.

I think that's what needs to be explained the most, the small increase from 9 to 10% from August until now.:mad: