So are we done ignoring the Evangelicals?

[idiom]

Ron Paul is a far better Jesus candidate than Huckabee, but so many of you just don't want to talk about that aspect of Ron Paul.

Evangelicals are a big part of the party and are perfectly capable of supporting Ron Paul.

A lot of people don't realise that Ron Paul is born again. I had spent a while talking to people about Ron Paul but they wouldn't support him, until I mentioned his faith. They had no idea he was a christian.

This speech got me and a got a lot of my christian friends:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZpuIXEzWk

Ron Paul has a far better grasp of abortion and its complexities than any other candidate. His position is also much closer to the Bible than any of Hucks.

The evangelical vote should be firmly behind Ron Paul. This is something we should work on.

[AggieforPaul]

Its something I've always worked on online, and with my Christian friends IRL.

Unfortunately, everyone here cringes when he brings up abortion, and wants him to hide the fact that he' s a Christian.

[hawks4ronpaul]

His "The View" interview was a good pro-life piece.

[Carole]

I read that he was not a "real" minister who graduated a seminary or anything. He was a "minister" at some different kind of church.

Maybe like these guys who go around and call themselves evangelists.

Frankly, I find it scary that people would vote for a candidate based too strongly on his flouting his religion. It was pandering and they bought it hook, line, and sinker.

They cared nothing about his faults.

[idiom]

There are very good ministers, like MLK and there are those who download a sermon off the internet every sunday.

Evangelicals, like plenty of other segments, are buried under propaganda. They don't know Ron Paul is a christian too. They need to know they have a choice.

They need to know they can vote for a Christian who isn't a backstabbing idiot.

Its not pandering, we don't change any part of the message or Ron Paul we just bother to talk to them. They are not the enemy, the are Americans too and can have their minds freed just as easily as anyone else. Everyone is open-minded in their own way, you just have to get over yourself so that you can reach them.

[idiom]

they are fucking idiots. Period. I have all but lost "faith" lol, in christian voters they are sheeples...

There are plenty of Sheeples. Most of us were sheeples once.

Pretty much everybody chasing Obama is a sheeple, are you going to ignore them too?

At least you can change the minds of their pastors and get a whole precinct :)

[Ron LOL]

Dude, we placed as low as we did because we tried to pander to Huckabee's base...not because we didn't pander hard enough.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Ron Paul is a far better Jesus candidate than Huckabee, but so many of you just don't want to talk about that aspect of Ron Paul.

Evangelicals are a big part of the party and are perfectly capable of supporting Ron Paul.

A lot of people don't realise that Ron Paul is born again. I had spent a while talking to people about Ron Paul but they wouldn't support him, until I mentioned his faith. They had no idea he was a christian.

This speech got me and a got a lot of my christian friends:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZpuIXEzWk

Ron Paul has a far better grasp of abortion and its complexities than any other candidate. His position is also much closer to the Bible than any of Hucks.

The evangelical vote should be firmly behind Ron Paul. This is something we should work on.

+1

.

[SeanEdwards]

edited h@w

I don't understand evangelicals, or christians, but I'm pretty confident that the above is not going to help convert any of those folks into Paul supporters.

[G-Wohl]

The evangelical base use their "faith" to determine their political support - they do not separate their religious beliefs from their political ones. Ron Paul is above all this bullshit, so why would the campaign stoop down to this level? It would not be in line with RP's message at all.

[Ethek]

+1

.

+2


I suggest anyone in a rural effort get packets together that amount to a statement of faith for the Ron Paul campaign. Plan to drop them off to chruch offices during weekdays with the office staff. follow up with them. Depending on how receptive they are ask to leave information with them. Most of them are tax free and cannot endorse a candidate but it will go a long way towards helping with the base.

[Talcott]

Yes.

They are too large a bloc of single issue voters...

esp. when Ron would have street cred with this group if they knew more.

[FluffyUnbound]

Dude, we placed as low as we did because we tried to pander to Huckabee's base...not because we didn't pander hard enough.

I agree with this 100%.

Paul tried to pretend he was a "normal" Republican, with ads about immigration and informercials about abortion and the like.

He should hit the war and civil liberties every day. EVERY DAY.

The problem with that is that Republicans who hate Mexicans have plenty of choices, and Republicans who hate choice have plenty of choices. Paul tried to get those voters and they won't switch to him.

He should have run on his difference.

We would probably have still lost, but we might have done better than we did.

[scandinaviany3]

If we just focused on donating to jeremiah's ads for his new projects we can address this issue in part and majorly fund SC and northern NV!

[Mark]

I don't understand evangelicals, or christians, but I'm pretty confident that the above is not going to help convert any of those folks into Paul supporters.


It won't - it's like the blind telling people how to see.

[Ethek]

We are our own worst enemies...I'm surprised there is anyone even left in the grassroots with all the hatred we spew toward one another :(

..only the strongest survive?

[idiom]

The evangelical base use their "faith" to determine their political support - they do not separate their religious beliefs from their political ones. Ron Paul is above all this bullshit, so why would the campaign stoop down to this level? It would not be in line with RP's message at all.

You just have to talk in phrases they understand. We are trying to get allAmericans to start thinking for themselves. Jesus commanded his followers to be 'as wise as serpents' and to evaluate things with a critical mind.

Being a sheeple and just following your pastor is a sin, not just against God (the christian one here) but against yourselves

I think that trying to free the minds of Americans is well within RP's message.


..only the strongest survive?

Its a democracy, the fastest breeders surive :P

[Ethek]

We are our own worst enemies...I'm surprised there is anyone even left in the grassroots with all the hatred we spew toward one another :(

..only the strongest survive? :rolleyes:

[Mark]

..only the strongest survive?

Straight up!

If those who know nothing about something would just leave those alone who DO know something about some things they don't

and just stick with what they DO KNOW we would ALL benefit!

[tsetsefly]

You sir are ignorant in that you have no sense in how to approach and work with people. That sort of attitude is not the attitude that will win the Presidency for Ron Paul. You had better wake up.

I am a Christian and you can call me an idiot and sheeple all you like but that does not make it so.

please enlighten me how do I approach christians?

[Mark]

sorry its true... at least for iowa christians, anyone who votes solely on religion is an idiot...

In case you didn't notice - idiot's votes count JUST AS MUCH as those who aren't.

And with this line of thought you're not really distinguishing yourself from them.

[Highstreet]

Dude, we placed as low as we did because we tried to pander to Huckabee's base...not because we didn't pander hard enough.

Pointing out the truth and Paul's record is NOT pandering. It's converting.

[Highstreet]

please enlighten me how do I approach christians?

Show them this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c84pJ6E7BYg

[jabrownie]

I am an evangelical, and there are some misperceptions being thrown around.

Many of you favor Dr. Paul because you look at his record and see him as honest and consistant. The evangelical right also wants the same thing, but for whatever reason (it doesn't really matter if it's right or wrong) they see the Christianity claim as meaning that the guy will more likely be honest and consistant. At least they hope the odds of it will be higher. So, we all want the same thing, they just have a different litmus test for it. That's all.

This doesn't mean that Dr. Paul needs to pander or anything. He doesn't need to go and thump the Bible like Huckabee and say vote for me cause I'm a Christian. However, it is one of his beliefs and if people know that, yes it would help. For the exact same reason that I think it should be mentioned that he has more military experience then anyone else running. These are safety blankets that the public wants before they'll support someone, they don't need to be pandered to, but a mention here or there wouldn't be bad. Especially since we are the model candidate on both.

[familydog]

Thw hatred for people of religion on this board is ridiculous. I'm an evangelical and I support Ron Paul. I guess I'm hated by half the people here now. Ooops.

[tsetsefly]

tsetse,

This is a big tent, quit being narrow-minded. No offense intended, but you are being very offensive.

I just call it like I see it, I cant believe so many people would vote just on religion...

off course not all christians are idiots, but a bunch of them are... lol

[Mark]

exactly, so how do we convert idiots, I dont know, do you?

Yes, you reach someone where they are at.

If it's Evangelical related, you reach them with Evangelical points.

Like here: http://ronpaul.cc/video/ronpaul/Chuck_Baldwin_Ron_Paul.htm

(I've got more work to do on the page - but it's okay to send to someone as it is)

And I've got a page with specifically a comparison with Huck. I need to find the URL.

here: http://ronpaul.cc/images/Ron/Christian/Christian_Flyer.htm

[tsetsefly]

Thw hatred for people of religion on this board is ridiculous. I'm an evangelical and I support Ron Paul. I guess I'm hated by half the people here now. Ooops.

no, the iowan christians are the ones I cant stomach right now... lol

[familydog]

I just call it like I see it, I cant believe so many people would vote just on religion...

off course not all christians are idiots, but a bunch of them are... lol

Not all non-believers are idiots, but a bunch of them are :rolleyes:

[Highstreet]

I just call it like I see it, I cant believe so many people would vote just on religion...

off course not all christians are idiots, but a bunch of them are... lol

Quit being an ass by painting with that broad brush. Paul's campaign is only working because it is inclusive.

[webber53]

I just call it like I see it, I cant believe so many people would vote just on religion...

off course not all christians are idiots, but a bunch of them are... lol


On the other hand there are a lot on non-Christians that are idiots as well!
LOL

[Mark]

Not all non-believers are idiots, but a bunch of them are :rolleyes:

+1 - by the way- I'm going to start telling Dr Paul how to deliver babies since I know nothing about it.

[idiom]

There are two Serious Born Again candidates, Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee.

When someone asks me what Jesus would look like in politics, I point at Ron Paul, not at Mike.

Ron Paul has enough belief in his own faith that he doesn't need to prop it up in public. Yet it is the foundation of his policy.

Mike is a bit of a slime. His policy is put together by 'people smarter than him' and he puts Jesus™ on top as the main selling point.

[Highstreet]

There are two Serious Born Again candidates, Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee.

When someone asks me what Jesus would look like in politics, I point at Ron Paul, not at Mike.

Ron Paul has enough belief in his own faith that he doesn't need to prop it up in public. Yet it is the foundation of policy.

Mike is a bit of a slime. His policy is put together by 'people smarter than him' and he puts Jesus™ on top as the main selling point.

He makes me think of Buddy Jesus from Dogma.:D

[Mark]

Did anyone who jumps into threads about God and prayer to start trolling negativity about such things that they know NOTHING about -

EVER CONSIDER - that they might be DRIVING AWAY NEW PEOPLE WHO DO?

And who want to LEARN how Ron's supporters who DO BELIEVE think.

And if there WASN"T SO MUCH NEGATIVE TROLLING that they might even TURN INTO a supporter of Ron?


.
If you want to POINT FINGERS at a group for being idiots -

people who have RUINED I don't know how many GOOD THREADS ABOUT GOD AND PRAYER - start with YOURSELF!

[tsetsefly]

Did anyone who jumps into threads about God and prayer to start trolling negativity about such things that they know NOTHING about -

EVER CONSIDER - that they might be DRIVING AWAY NEW PEOPLE WHO DO?

I know quite a bit of christianity, I have many religious family members, none of them huckster voters btw... and they dont vote based on religion...

[iella]

The evangelical base use their "faith" to determine their political support - they do not separate their religious beliefs from their political ones. Ron Paul is above all this bullshit, so why would the campaign stoop down to this level? It would not be in line with RP's message at all.

The problem is not separating religious beliefs from political ones. This would demand hypocrisy (of a different kind than most of you are sure to accuse Christians of, but that's a different topic).

The problem is that Christians aren't using their religious beliefs correctly in forming their political beliefs. Yes, sin should be frowned upon, but nowhere, NOWHERE does the Bible say that the spiritual direction of a country (outside of Israel) is dependent on a secular government. This is entirely the work of the gospel, and the responsibility to spread the gospel belongs to the church and to individual Christians, not to our government.

To that effect, I wrote this: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47829 which I hope will help some of the Christians you know to rethink secular government and what it's there for (and what we would like it to look like).

[RoyalShock]

As an evangelical, here is my perspective.

The Christians aren't voting based solely on their religion. For several elections (since Clinton) we've had it pounded into our brains by our leaders to "vote our values, not our wallets". What that did was push a large percentage of evangelicals to bring only a few issues to the forefront. Abortion is a big one. Gay mariage is another one.

For many who went along with that way of thinking, when they see a guy like Huckabee, they see someone like themselves (looking at the positives), which they trust.

We are in a battle of ideas. It's relatively easy to win over the apathetic or neutral types. It's much harder to convert those who have been voting a certain way, using a certain set of critieria. It will take time, truth, and tact (kindness) to win them over. Dismissing them as dumb, stupid sheep is only going to alienate them further.

A portion of them are not going to be winnable, but the ones who are open minded enough to be willing to look at things from a different perspective are ripe for the picking. But like I said, it will take time, truth and tact. Say it again . . . "Time, Truth and Tact!"

[scandinaviany3]

Show them this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=c84pJ6E7BYg



Good idea but should be no more than 1 minute and on tv to reach everyone

[Grandson of Liberty]

please enlighten me how do I approach christians?

well, you could start by not calling them effing morons. I'm guessing that might make them a bit defensive and unwilling to listen to you. Just a guess.

Perhaps ask them what issues they find most important in voting for a candidate. I'm confident that will be a good launching point for a discussion in which you can make a thoughtful, rational case for Ron Paul.

[RoyalShock]

tsetsefly,

Unless you truly understand what Jesus taught, I would not recommend getting into a dialogue. Instead, refer to the thread that iella linked. It is well written and in my opinion properly communicates how Christians should handle their voting privileges.

[DeadtoSin]

You know, I'm an evangelical Christian. Had I not been a Ron Paul supporter already, you guys would have made me into an anti-Paul supporter. Seriously. One guy in here called us F***ing morons.. Really?

I'm an evangelical Christian, I'm active in politics, and I'm going to college for a chemistry degree. Do you think I appreciate being called that?

[DeadtoSin]

People like the guy that did that should seriously bash Ron Paul and Christians in the same topic. Talk about how that F***ing moron Ron Paul is too Christian for you.

Please.

[UCFGavin]

sorry, but i trust the evangelicals even less now.

[wildflower]

evangelicals are fucking morons, how the fuck do you expect to convince them, the huckster was a minister after all...

It's posts like this that turns people away, Einstein. :rolleyes:

sheesh! you'd think you want to lose, the way a few of you alienate people.

[idiom]

If you meet someone who is a one issue (religion) voter, just say that Ron Paul is Born Again and that you think he should check him out.

[bretwalda]

The fundamentalist and evangelical masses have had their doctrine hijacked for the good part of 20-30 years. They have bought into a 'cultural warfare' mentality that is exactly in line with Huckabee. Its unbiblical.

Unfortunately this isn't an easy thing to reprogram. The 'moral majority' has a plethora of rally points on the airwaves where they swallow this mentality and build on it. If you listen in to the fundy/evangellical programs out there like Faith 2 Action, Janet Parshall's America :), VCY America, etc., you will note that these people are still disillusioned. Their mantra does come into conflict with their conscience and what they see happening around them in spite of their choice sitting the white house. Just listen when these Bush lovers get slapped overside the head when they have folk like Jerome Corsi on their show - they just can't conceptualize why these issues outside of the moral debate (constitutional issues, sovereignty issues, religious freedom issues, etc) are coming from within their own camp. They are locked into the 'left/right' paradigm and no one is showing them the way out.

I'd encourage any and all biblical Christians to watch this series carefully and even take notes. Send it out to your confused brethren, take it up in your discussions at church:

Four videos - the kicker is probably the one labeled 'Part2-Overview' (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=transformnotconform)

His conclusion from solid biblical exegesis of Romans 13 - Ron Paul is the only candidate a Christian should be voting for.

Subscribe - He will be doing another series on a relevant passage in 1 Peter I believe.

[austin4paul]

You know, I'm an evangelical Christian. Had I not been a Ron Paul supporter already, you guys would have made me into an anti-Paul supporter. Seriously. One guy in here called us F***ing morons.. Really?

I'm an evangelical Christian, I'm active in politics, and I'm going to college for a chemistry degree. Do you think I appreciate being called that?

Thanks for sticking with your principles, DTS.

The rest of you -- Dr. Paul supports freedom of ALL religions -- that includes evangelical Christians! Sheesh!

[DeadtoSin]

Wow guys.

*Facepalm*

Seriously, should I write up a thread of things you should and should not say to a Christian?

Christianity is NOT a one-issue thing. Christianity to people who read the Bible and believe in it encompasses their whole life outlook. Just looking at the candidate is multiple issues for me. One issue is honesty, another is integrity, another is how well he upholds his oath to the constitution. Then his stance on abortion is important to me, because I feel like it is murder.

Homosexual marriage is LESS important to me, simply because I think it is counter intutitive to force consenting people into not doing something. Abortion is different since the child is an innocent life. However, it is, and probably will remain an important issue for most Christians.

There are a myriad of issues involved, and its hardly a "one issue" type of thing.

[DeadtoSin]

evangelicals are stupid as fuck. i wish we could just not have them as opposed to trying to win their vote. these people have fucked up christianity far beyond what it should be. they call traditional churches dead churches. fuck em all. (i have nothing against traditional christians, many of my friends are christian but not evangelical) i wish the evangelicals would fucking die.

we were robbed tonight. i'll still vote for ron paul and tell everyone else to but my hopes are gone.

Listen, I'm a Christian and I tell people about Christ and I believe the Bible. I don't see whats wrong with that. If you can't accept that and want to spout your nonsense, at least don't associate yourself with Ron Paul.

Seriously.

[G-Wohl]

The problem is not separating religious beliefs from political ones. This would demand hypocrisy (of a different kind than most of you are sure to accuse Christians of, but that's a different topic).

The problem is that Christians aren't using their religious beliefs correctly in forming their political beliefs. Yes, sin should be frowned upon, but nowhere, NOWHERE does the Bible say that the spiritual direction of a country (outside of Israel) is dependent on a secular government. This is entirely the work of the gospel, and the responsibility to spread the gospel belongs to the church and to individual Christians, not to our government.

To that effect, I wrote this: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47829 which I hope will help some of the Christians you know to rethink secular government and what it's there for (and what we would like it to look like).

I disagree. Ron Paul is in support of gay marriage - this would go against the overwhelming majority of Evangelical supporters. Seriously, I don't think many RP supporters WANT that support to begin with; the Evangelicals have supported some of the worst political minds in the history of the United States. This would severely work against Paul's credibility.

[Grandson of Liberty]

sorry, but i trust the evangelicals even less now.

I guess it's okay to generalize and bash a whole group of people as long as it's Christians. :(

And Jon S., please consider editing your last post. I think it crosses the line (not the only one to do so in this thread, by the way), and also does Dr. Paul no favors in terms of winning voters.

[DeadtoSin]

I disagree. Ron Paul is in support of gay marriage - this would go against the overwhelming majority of Evangelical supporters. Seriously, I don't think many RP supporters WANT that support to begin with; the Evangelicals have supported some of the worst political minds in the history of the United States. This would severely work against Paul's credibility.

Ron Paul IS NOT in support of gay marriage. He just thinks the federal government should not decide it. There is a major difference there.


And yeah, you guys should seriously learn to not bash Christians. Some Christians make bad decisions just like other people.

[G-Wohl]

I guess it's okay to generalize and bash a whole group of people as long as it's Christians. :(

Don't be silly - I (and most with my same beliefs) "generalize and bash" all religious groups equally. Most people who are anti-Christanity are usually anti-religion in general. Ron Paul would allow us to say these things, right?

[Mark]

I know quite a bit of christianity, I have many religious family members, none of them huckster voters btw... and they dont vote based on religion...


Well, that IS great! Seriously. But, we ALSO want votes from those who DO vote that way.

We need to relate to them in a manner that they understand if we want their votes. Si?

[DeadtoSin]

Yeah, sure you can say them. As insulting as saying those things are to me, I'm willing to let them go for two reasons.

1. The Bible tells us that we should turn the other cheek.
2. I want you to learn WHEN to voice your displeasure about religion, and in the context of helping people over to the side of Ron Paul it is almost always completely unhelpful.

[DeadtoSin]

so where did i say i hated all christians? all christians who believe in the bible are not dumb. evangelicals are dumb. if you're one of those who calls traditional churches dead churches then im sorry but i think you are a fucking idiot. by evangelicals i mean jesus camp people. and if you are a jesus camp person then im sorry but again you are a fucking idiot

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. All the cussing certainly is not necessary. I'm a Christian. I go to church and I try to live out my life. I try to encourage and help people. I believe in the Bible. If you still think I'm an idiot, fine.

Tone down the harshness toward Christians that are not Ron Paul supporters though or you'll be hurting Ron Paul.

[Jon S]

i would rather leave ron paul forums for good than edit any of my posts. its what i think and im not gonna water it down. christians are not stupid. evangelicals are the fundumentalist extremists of christianity. and i DO have something against them.

[Highstreet]

I disagree. Ron Paul is in support of gay marriage - this would go against the overwhelming majority of Evangelical supporters. Seriously, I don't think many RP supporters WANT that support to begin with; the Evangelicals have supported some of the worst political minds in the history of the United States. This would severely work against Paul's credibility.

This is the BIG TENT.

Ignoring any part of the populace is done at our peril.

You may be jaded, but Paul is not. This is one of his strengths and he should be getting the votes, not Huckster.

[idiom]

Aw... I am a Jesus Camp person :(

We are paranoid crazies who think the MSM is trying to shape the nation.

[G-Wohl]

Ron Paul IS NOT in support of gay marriage. He just thinks the federal government should not decide it. There is a major difference there.


And yeah, you guys should seriously learn to not bash Christians. Some Christians make bad decisions just like other people.

Ron Paul answered, "Sure" to the question asked of him on an ABC interview: "Should gays be allowed to marry?".

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hPiDvB2Tcqw

Paul himself may disagree with homosexuality and gay marriage, but he is absolutely opposed to a federal ban on it. The candidates that Evangelicals support (such as Huckabee) aren't able to make the distinction between religious values and political ideologies. Many "conservative" candidates wish to outlaw gay marriage, and define marriage on the federal level as the union between a man and a woman. Ron Paul has the sense to not ever support such a thing.

EDIT: I should say that none of my comments are meant to be personal attacks - they are my opinion, and the fact that we have such wide-ranging individuals all supporting one candidate just speaks towards Ron Paul's undeniable strength as an ideologically-powerful candidate.

[Highstreet]

i would rather leave ron paul forums for good than edit any of my posts. its what i think and im not gonna water it down. christians are not stupid. evangelicals are the fundumentalist extremists of christianity. and i DO have something against them.

Then stop pissing off 1/3 of the base.

This is a big tent effort, and that is Paul's only chance of winning.

He has to bring in a sizable portion of each faction of Repubs and Independents.

[Jon S]

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. All the cussing certainly is not necessary. I'm a Christian. I go to church and I try to live out my life. I try to encourage and help people. I believe in the Bible. If you still think I'm an idiot, fine.

Tone down the harshness toward Christians that are not Ron Paul supporters though or you'll be hurting Ron Paul.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD I DO NOT HATE CHRISTIANS!!! I HATE EVANGELICALS!!! i barely ever curse but when it comes to evangelicals i hate them. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE EVANGELICALS!!

[DeadtoSin]

Too bad you won't leave the forums then. All you are doing is hatemongering and it is hurting the discussion on the forums. I'll be checking up on you in all of your topics and trying to check the damage you do if you won't tone it down.

I know it isn't going to deter you, but you could just calm it down and we could discuss this rationally.

[Grandson of Liberty]

Don't be silly - I (and most with my same beliefs) "generalize and bash" all religious groups equally. Most people who are anti-Christanity are usually anti-religion in general. Ron Paul would allow us to say these things, right?

You certainly have the right to say things that could cost Ron Paul votes, but why would you want to? With 8 posts to your name, I can only wonder. :rolleyes:

[DeadtoSin]

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD I DO NOT HATE CHRISTIANS!!! I HATE EVANGELICALS!!! i barely ever curse but when it comes to evangelicals i hate them. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE EVANGELICALS!!

Listen, you are talking about people that are still Christians. Other Christians, "evangelical" or not, see that as an attack on their faith. Get it through you head and get over it.

[idiom]

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD I DO NOT HATE CHRISTIANS!!! I HATE EVANGELICALS!!! i barely ever curse but when it comes to evangelicals i hate them. NOT ALL CHRISTIANS ARE EVANGELICALS!!

This thread is about Evangelicals and not hating them. Love them, even though some of them seem to hate everyone.

[iella]

I disagree. Ron Paul is in support of gay marriage - this would go against the overwhelming majority of Evangelical supporters. Seriously, I don't think many RP supporters WANT that support to begin with; the Evangelicals have supported some of the worst political minds in the history of the United States. This would severely work against Paul's credibility.

Uh, what? My point was that Christians don't understand that limited government is in our best interests, they focus too much on specific issues like gay marriage. You will never convince a devout Christian that gay marriage is morally acceptable - you are much, MUCH more likely to convince them that the government shouldn't be trying to push "morality" on anyone. Everyone likes limited government because then we can live our lives the way we want to (as long as we don't interfere with other peoples' right to live the way they want to), and that includes Christians as well.

[Grandson of Liberty]

i would rather leave ron paul forums for good than edit any of my posts. its what i think and im not gonna water it down. christians are not stupid. evangelicals are the fundumentalist extremists of christianity. and i DO have something against them.

okie dokie, you've been reported. Just an FYI. Opinions are fine. Name calling is a violation.

[Jon S]

haha checking up on me. you do that. wanna know the first time i cursed in a post? it was about 3 posts ago. if you consider yourself a christian and you believe in the bible and you go to church i have nothing against you. if you are an evangelical (meaning you think all other religions are false religions, you hate gay people, you think traditional churches are dead churches, etc) then i DO have something against you

[DeadtoSin]

I do think all other religions are false religions. I don't hate gay people. If you hate gay people then you aren't living a Christian lifestyle.. I don't really think thats complicated. The Bible exhorts us to not hate ANYONE.

How could I not think that other religions are wrong? All religions contradict each other. One of them HAS to have truth, and they can't all be true because truth is not mutually exclusive.

Look, thats not a complicated issue.

*Edit*

I should say ALL BELIEF SYSTEMS (including atheism) contradict each other.

[Jon S]

okay im leaving the forums. i have nothing against the majority of you. but evangelicals are crazy nuts who have skewed christianity beyond recognition. i will never apologize for hating them. and 4 posts with me telling my opinion on them (which includes me thinking they are fucking morons) has pissed off enough people that im done with these forums. i'll still support ron paul and tell everyone to vote for him. but i'll never apologize for anything i've said.

goodbye forums

[DeadtoSin]

Bye now!

[hard@work]

goodbye forums

The forums wish you well on your journey through life. May peace find you, puppies adore you, and butterflies all know your name.

[JenHarris]

This kind of hatred and fighting over subjects like this really don't belong on a forum to get Ron Paul elected. If you want to hate evangelicals go to somewhere else and hate on them there. Hell if you want to spread hatred against anyone take that somewhere else and leave the forums for working on the goal we all share which is getting Ron elected. With freedom comes responsibility, and we need to be responsible enough to know that sometimes what we want to say will cause more harm to our cause than good.

[UziSprayTF]

Im reposting this because it fits in much better here than where I first posted it.

We need to be more focused on the church goers.

It is very simple to win over the religious right. First look up all the churches in your area and get the names of the pastor, youth pastor and deacons (titles will change depending on denomination) then look up their address using the Internets. (Serious Business)

Second visit the pastor, youth pastor and deacons and explain these simple talking points:
- Ron Paul has been faithfully married to his wife for 50 years
- Ron Paul is a deep Christian
- Ron Paul has NEVER voted against his principles
- Ron Paul is against abortion and has actually voted that way
- Ron Paul is against gay marriage

That is all you need to tell them. I have convinced so many Christians to vote for him just by saying those lines. IF, and only IF, they ask about either Huckabee or lack of MSM presence you explain that:
- Huckabee has been investigated on ethics commissions many many times
- Huckabee has pardoned criminals who later went on to brake the law again
- That Huckabee is probably trying to do what he thinks is best, but you cant ethically see yourself voting for him

on MSM presence you need to frame it as the *SECULAR* media that does not want Ron Paul to be heard, even though he has raised the most amount of money.

But really, all you should need is the talking points above. What happens after that is the pastor will talk to his deacons about the election and the deacons to their wives and the wives to the other church members and it spirals from there. Karl Rove is not stupid when he went after that section of the GOP for Bush, we NEED them if we are going to win.

[tboss]

Let's push this hard. This is def a top subject. I was surprised at the Huckabee support. Ron Paul is a WAY better Christian than that fool.

[familydog]

okay im leaving the forums. i have nothing against the majority of you. but evangelicals are crazy nuts who have skewed christianity beyond recognition. i will never apologize for hating them. and 4 posts with me telling my opinion on them (which includes me thinking they are fucking morons) has pissed off enough people that im done with these forums. i'll still support ron paul and tell everyone to vote for him. but i'll never apologize for anything i've said.

goodbye forums

:rolleyes:

[Duckman]

I DO NOT HATE CHRISTIANS!!! I HATE EVANGELICALS!!!

You shouldn't be hating them either.

[Vox Populi]

I agree that the Christian aspect of Dr. Ron Paul should have been displayed in Iowa. I knew that Iowa was an evangelical and Christian state, so I knew that Huckabee would do well, but I was suprised to see that Ron Paul did not do better than he did. I'm not in Iowa, so I didn't see the local news there or get a feel of what the Christians there thought, but I assumed that Ron Paul's Christian aspect would be displayed in Iowa. Was it? If not, it should have been, and I hope that the campaign makes note of that going into some of the Bible Belt states.

Ron Paul is a good Christian man.

EDIT: I understand that over-stating Paul's Christianity/religious beliefs is not a good idea, but it's still important that people understand what his beliefs are.

[dianeh]

Im reposting this because it fits in much better here than where I first posted it.

We need to be more focused on the church goers.

It is very simple to win over the religious right. First look up all the churches in your area and get the names of the pastor, youth pastor and deacons (titles will change depending on denomination) then look up their address using the Internets. (Serious Business)

Second visit the pastor, youth pastor and deacons and explain these simple talking points:
- Ron Paul has been faithfully married to his wife for 50 years
- Ron Paul is a deep Christian
- Ron Paul has NEVER voted against his principles
- Ron Paul is against abortion and has actually voted that way
- Ron Paul is against gay marriage

That is all you need to tell them. I have convinced so many Christians to vote for him just by saying those lines. IF, and only IF, they ask about either Huckabee or lack of MSM presence you explain that:
- Huckabee has been investigated on ethics commissions many many times
- Huckabee has pardoned criminals who later went on to brake the law again
- That Huckabee is probably trying to do what he thinks is best, but you cant ethically see yourself voting for him

on MSM presence you need to frame it as the *SECULAR* media that does not want Ron Paul to be heard, even though he has raised the most amount of money.

But really, all you should need is the talking points above. What happens after that is the pastor will talk to his deacons about the election and the deacons to their wives and the wives to the other church members and it spirals from there. Karl Rove is not stupid when he went after that section of the GOP for Bush, we NEED them if we are going to win.


This is VERY good advice! And it doesn't matter what you think of evangelicals; Dr. Paul needs their votes. We are selling our candidate; if you were selling any other product, would you hesitate to appeal to the buyer's values and concerns just because you didn't agree with them? You'd starve to death as a salesman! Remember: IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

[Mark]

okay im leaving the forums. i have nothing against the majority of you. but evangelicals are crazy nuts who have skewed christianity beyond recognition. i will never apologize for hating them. and 4 posts with me telling my opinion on them (which includes me thinking they are fucking morons) has pissed off enough people that im done with these forums. i'll still support ron paul and tell everyone to vote for him. but i'll never apologize for anything i've said.

goodbye forums


That's probably for the best, because you're only hurting our efforts here with such an attitude.

You know, maybe some Evangelicals have been reading this thread wondering if they should support Ron,
and people like you are only driving them away.

Maybe, try to reach people you CAN relate to - and stop worrying about those you can not relate to,
and leave those to people who CAN relate to them.

[G-Wohl]

You certainly have the right to say things that could cost Ron Paul votes, but why would you want to? With 8 posts to your name, I can only wonder. :rolleyes:

I've given generously to the Ron Paul campaign. Don't question my support for the guy - I am a libertarian and Ron Paul is the only presidential candidate who isn't a long-shot that I've ever supported. He has restored my hope for this nation.

Every time you lose votes from one group, you gain them from another. But I should remind you that my opinions will not cause Ron Paul to lose votes - this is the same propagandistic speech that we hate so much from the mainstream media and the neo-conservatives. The fact that die-hard atheists and radical Christians can both be supportive of the same candidate should bring more to the campaign, not less.

[Thunderbolt]

Do you really think that Ron Paul can beat Huckabee in a faith race? Huckabee is a minister. If you start pushing him in this direction you lose all the rest of us who that stuff really turns off and there are a lot more non evangelicals. You cannot pit Ron Paul up against Huckabee on the issue of religion and abortion.

Huck would happily turn this entire country into a Christian nation and force religion down the throats of every school child in America. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck will be pleased to start wars in Christ's name. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck will support Israel because Christ was born there. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck would stack the court with judges who will ignore the Constitution just to make all abortions illegal. That will please the evangelicals.

Huck would happily pass a law that says that evolution cannot be taught in schools. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck would be glad to pass a law that says that the ten commandments must be in every courthouse in America. This would please the evangelicals.

Huckabee will always put Christ before the Constitution. This would please the evangelicals.

How do you think Ron Paul stacks up on any of those issues?

Moreover, how do you think most of us who support him would feel if he took any one of these stances?


Ron Paul did not do well in Iowa because Iowans expect and demand a LOT of face time from their candidate. Ron Paul barely set foot in the state while Huckabee practically lived there. Ron Paul lost the straw poll for the same reason. Clearly, they made a decision to give up on Iowa. If they didn't do it on purpose then they lost because they know nothing at all about politics in Iowa because they have inexperienced children running the campaign. I prefer to think the reason was the former.

[Thunderbolt]

That's probably for the best, because you're only hurting our efforts here with such an attitude.

You know, maybe some Evangelicals have been reading this thread wondering if they should support Ron,
and people like you are only driving them away.

Maybe, try to reach people you CAN relate to - and stop worrying about those you can not relate to,
and leave those to people who CAN relate to them.

You know Mark, I don't have a signature that is displayed on every post and pushed down people's throats that may turn people off and make them run from the forums. You do. So, perhaps you should look in the mirror. I don't give a damn what your personal beliefs are, but when you try to push them on others with every post then you are doing exactly what you accuse that poor kid of doing.

Think about it. What if I believed in the devil and had a signature hailing Satan and his wonderful ways and included satanic verses? Think that might turn someone off?

[UziSprayTF]

Do you really think that Ron Paul can beat Huckabee in a faith race? ...

No, not beat, but he does need to eat into that support. Many people like myself are deeply Christian and support Ron Paul, and for good reason. It doesn't say blessed are the warmongers in the Bible, it says blessed are the peace makers.

[Mark]

You know Mark, I don't have a signature that is displayed on every post and pushed down people's throats that may turn people off and make them run from the forums. You do. So, perhaps you should look in the mirror. I don't give a damn what your personal beliefs are, but when you try to push them on others with every post then you are doing exactly what you accuse that poor kid of doing.

Think about it. What if I believed in the devil and had a signature hailing Satan and his wonderful ways and included satanic verses? Think that might turn someone off?

Well, I wouldn't argue the point with you and try to persuade those who believe the way you do because I know nothing about it.

I wouldn't say things that would drive them away.

I would leave them to you to persuade to vote for Dr Paul. And I would stick with the people I can relate to. We need both.

If you handle those you can identify with, I'll handle those I can identify with, and let's agree not to de-rail either of our efforts
by ruining each other's threads that deal with our individual strengths. It's pretty simple really.

[wildflower]

Do you really think that Ron Paul can beat Huckabee in a faith race? Huckabee is a minister. If you start pushing him in this direction you lose all the rest of us who that stuff really turns off and there are a lot more non evangelicals. You cannot pit Ron Paul up against Huckabee on the issue of religion and abortion.

Huck would happily turn this entire country into a Christian nation and force religion down the throats of every school child in America. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck will be pleased to start wars in Christ's name. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck will support Israel because Christ was born there. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck would stack the court with judges who will ignore the Constitution just to make all abortions illegal. That will please the evangelicals.

Huck would happily pass a law that says that evolution cannot be taught in schools. This would please the evangelicals.

Huck would be glad to pass a law that says that the ten commandments must be in every courthouse in America. This would please the evangelicals.

Huckabee will always put Christ before the Constitution. This would please the evangelicals.

How do you think Ron Paul stacks up on any of those issues?

Moreover, how do you think most of us who support him would feel if he took any one of these stances?


Ron Paul did not do well in Iowa because Iowans expect and demand a LOT of face time from their candidate. Ron Paul barely set foot in the state while Huckabee practically lived there. Ron Paul lost the straw poll for the same reason. Clearly, they made a decision to give up on Iowa. If they didn't do it on purpose then they lost because they know nothing at all about politics in Iowa because they have inexperienced children running the campaign. I prefer to think the reason was the former.

I think you're misunderstanding something very important. Just because someone says they're a christian doesn't automatically mean that they are. Jesus warned about wolves in sheep's clothing or people who may take the name but their actions say something very different.

So all the evangelical or other Christian voters out there need to know that there are a number of things about Huckabee that should be a red flag to them - his advisor is the head of the CFR, he has lied about things such as the cross in his ad, there is evidence he has abused his power as governor of Arkansas, he seems to have overlooked corruption in Arkansas, etc, etc.

In other words - they need to be reminded that politicians will USE "faith" as a way to get votes, but don't fall for it! Huckabee is a huckster.

So I do think we need to reach out to evangelicals or people thinking about supporting Huckabee. Because the way I see it (as a Christian) is that Dr. Paul is the real deal. He doesn't wave his faith in people's faces, but instead, he is humble, he is honest and sincere, he has been consistent, he is against unjust war, etc.... all those things back up his christianity. I think we should use the endorsement of Chuck Baldwin to reach Christians.

And as Mark said, if you can't relate, then let others who can relate do it. But don't alienate and turn off potential voters by attacking them - that is totally counterproductive. (not saying that to you, but to atheists in general)

[UziSprayTF]

This is VERY good advice! And it doesn't matter what you think of evangelicals; Dr. Paul needs their votes. We are selling our candidate; if you were selling any other product, would you hesitate to appeal to the buyer's values and concerns just because you didn't agree with them? You'd starve to death as a salesman! Remember: IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!

Exactly. We have hard core liberals that support Ron Paul for just ONE issue: The War!

Why not hit a 30% of America with points that are true? if we get a third of them our support will double in numbers and organization.

I know I'm a very libertarian leaning republican, but if my father cares more about the debt than the war on drugs I don't try to sell him on legalizing pot I point out how much money the neo-cons have wasted (I finally got him when I said that Bill Clinton paid off more debt than any Republican I could think of). With my mom (very very Christian) it was the fact that Ron Paul has been married so long and opposed abortion his whole life that one her over. Know your market.

[Mark]

You know Mark, I don't have a signature that is displayed on every post and pushed down people's throats that may turn people off and make them run from the forums. You do. So, perhaps you should look in the mirror. I don't give a damn what your personal beliefs are, but when you try to push them on others with every post then you are doing exactly what you accuse that poor kid of doing.

Think about it. What if I believed in the devil and had a signature hailing Satan and his wonderful ways and included satanic verses? Think that might turn someone off?


And actually, once I have a few more pages ready, I was going to change my sig. with some links.

And, all I have are simple words like "prayer" and "church".

I don't really see how those two simple words are pushing anything down someone's throat.

I have a very simple prayer site for Dr Paul,
and I have a nonprofit Incorporated Organization that happens to be Religious oriented that I have a chipin for, that I link to.

Just like so many other people do with their sites and chipins.

Just because mine are the type they are, does not make them any more "pushing down throats" than anyone else's.

[JohnnyWrath]

Ron Paul supporters want Ron Paul to avoid being mainstream, but magically win over the main stream republican voters....80% of republican voters in Iowa think the terrorist boogie man is coming to0 get us, yet people flip out if he even uses the word terrorist....The Republican Christians want pro-life, but people flip out every time he mentions being a Christian....

You can NOT win over the mainstream republican vote if we bitch every time Ron Paul tries to appeal to them on issues....too many supporters want him to take on the mainstream as if in a fight, but then expect mainstream voters to magically "wake up" and refuse mainstream thinking...it won't work.

[Mark]

I think you're misunderstanding something very important. Just because someone says they're a christian doesn't automatically mean that they are. Jesus warned about wolves in sheep's clothing or people who may take the name but their actions say something very different.

So all the evangelical or other Christian voters out there need to know that there are a number of things about Huckabee that should be a red flag to them - his advisor is the head of the CFR, he has lied about things such as the cross in his ad, there is evidence he has abused his power as governor of Arkansas, he seems to have overlooked corruption in Arkansas, etc, etc.

In other words - they need to be reminded that politicians will USE "faith" as a way to get votes, but don't fall for it! Huckabee is a huckster.

So I do think we need to reach out to evangelicals or people thinking about supporting Huckabee. Because the way I see it (as a Christian) is that Dr. Paul is the real deal. He doesn't wave his faith in people's faces, but instead, he is humble, he is honest and sincere, he has been consistent, he is against unjust war, etc.... all those things back up his christianity. I think we should use the endorsement of Chuck Baldwin to reach Christians.

And as Mark said, if you can't relate, then let others who can relate do it. But don't alienate and turn off potential voters by attacking them - that is totally counterproductive. (not saying that to you, but to atheists in general)

You are indeed a wise wildflower. ;)

Have you seen the page I made that has the endorsement by Chuck and the Pastor's Forum Chuck introduced Ron at?

---> http://ronpaul.cc/video/ronpaul/Chuc...n_Ron_Paul.htm (http://ronpaul.cc/video/ronpaul/Chuck_Baldwin_Ron_Paul.htm)

(I've got more work to do on the page - but it's okay to send to someone as it is)

It also has a audio interview with Chuck and Ron plus Ron's statement of Faith and press release about his "Sanctity of Life Bill"

And I've got a page with specifically a comparison with Huck.

here: http://ronpaul.cc/images/Ron/Christi...tian_Flyer.htm (http://ronpaul.cc/images/Ron/Christian/Christian_Flyer.htm)

[dianeh]

I agree that the Christian aspect of Dr. Ron Paul should have been displayed in Iowa. I knew that Iowa was an evangilical and Christian state, so I knew that Huckabee would do well, but I was suprised to see that Ron Paul did not do better than he did. I'm not in Iowa, so I didn't see the local news there or get a feel of what the Christians there thought, but I assumed that Ron Paul's Christian aspect would be displayed in Iowa. Was it? If not, it should have been, and I hope that the campaign makes note of that going into some of the Bible Belt states.

Ron Paul is a good Christian man.

EDIT: I understand that over-stating Paul's Christianity/religious beliefs is not a good idea, but it's still important that people understand what his beliefs are.


I realize that Ron Paul follows Reagan's stated practice of not wanting to talk about his religious beliefs in public, but in reality, Reagan mentioned God quite a bit in his speeches--especially after he got shot. (I can provide links to quotes if anyone doesn't believe it)

I wish campaign HQ would come up with a handout for churches and also insert a few references to God in his speeches. I don't think it's 'pandering' as some have stated. It's not a lie to make honest statements about his faith.

I am a Christian but I'm not comfortable around those who come on too strong about religion. However, I put up with them when I have to and getting votes for Ron Paul is one of those times. I don't even agree with Ron Paul on every single issue but he would agree with my right to disagree. It's called freedom.

I think those of us who just refuse to interact with others (evangelicals, old people, etc) who aren't 100% in line with their own personal beliefs are being ridiculously short-sighted, immature and close minded. More importantly, they're missing out on getting votes for Ron Paul.

[Vox Populi]

It's actually pretty simple. Ron Paul needs more Christian votes, and they can easily be obtained if Christians just know about him. He's a doctor who's delivered 4,000+ babies, a vietnam USAF veteran, been married 50+ years, and he's a good Christian man trying to do what's right for America (for a change) which will make a better WORLD for us and our children.

[passerby]

Ron Paul is republican. This alone, in the eyes of many, is enough to lay out his positions on issues that evangelicals seem to care about. RP will gain nothing by trying to out-Huckster the Huckster. Going in that direction will take time and energy, and will not be particularly fruitful exercise. RP doesn't flout his religion b/c he's too much of a Christian to do that, and this is not what RP is good at.

What RP is good at and what makes him distinctive among republicans is his credible stances against wars and against a large federal government. No one can compete with him on these issues.

I don't think anyone here should ignore evangelical votes, but it will be very difficult to change RP into an 'evangelical candidate'. Also, people have enough of those to choose from. We should stick to what we're best at rather than expend our limited energy on remaking RP in the Huckster's image.

[Mark]

Exactly. We have hard core liberals that support Ron Paul for just ONE issue: The War!

Why not hit a 30% of America with points that are true? if we get a third of them our support will double in numbers and organization.

I know I'm a very libertarian leaning republican, but if my father cares more about the debt than the war on drugs I don't try to sell him on legalizing pot I point out how much money the neo-cons have wasted (I finally got him when I said that Bill Clinton paid off more debt than any Republican I could think of). With my mom (very very Christian) it was the fact that Ron Paul has been married so long and opposed abortion his whole life that one her over. Know your market.

This touches on what I posted in another thread.

I think it would be VERY productive if we all branched out into groups to work the areas we're specialized in.

Like, anti-war, anti-tax, anti-big government, religious or non-religious issues ect.

Deal with what we know, and let others who know areas we don't know about deal with them.

And stop the bickering over issues we don't know about. The bickering hurts us, it doesn't help us. It only drives people away.

[JohnnyWrath]

It doesn't matter as much in the rest of the country.


Almost two-thirds of Republicans polled before the caucus said that they were evangelical Christians, a group that is a small minority in the rest of the country. (Evangelical Christians comprise between 8 percent and 35 percent of the US population.)

[Thunderbolt]

Well Mark, if you aren't trying to push it down someone's throat then why have a signature? Of course you are trying to push the church. In fact, you have a link to a chip in to give money to a church. What you think if I had a chip in to help Hitler, or Satan, or Buddah, or any other particular group? I can bet you a ton of money that someone on this board would be offended.

Since I am trying to reach the most number of Paul supporters as possible, I try not to offend anyone. But you were the one throwing stones in your glass house. I just pointed it out.

And marketing to Christians is not the same as marketing to evangelicals. They are a very special sect of Christianity. You cannot call all Christians evangelicals.

The characteristics of Evangelicalism as defined by David Bebbington, in his study of British evangelicalism, are known as the Bebbington Quadrilateral, [1], the four characteristics of evangelicals are :

1. Conversionism - Emphasis on the conversion experience, also called being saved, or new birth or born again after John 3:3. Thus evangelicals often refer to themselves as born-again Christians. This experience is said to be received by "faith alone" and to be given by God as the result of "grace alone".
2. Biblicism - The Protestant canon of the Bible, as God's revelation to humanity, is the primary source of religious authority. Thus, the doctrine of sola scriptura is often emphasized. Bible prophecy, especially as interpreted according to dispensationalism, is often emphasized as well.
3. Activism - Encouragement of evangelism—the act of persuading others of one's beliefs—in organized missionary work or by personal encounters and relationships with others.
4. Crucicentrism - A central focus on Christ's redeeming work on the cross as the only means for salvation and the forgiveness of sins.


If this is the crowd you now want to pitch to, then re-read my post above where I explain why this crowd and the typical Ron Paul crowd don't mix well. Ron Paul preaches non-interference and letting people live their lives the way they want. He does not try to persuade others of his beliefs. If he did I think he would lose most of the people on this forum.

I also think that if Ron Paul started saying that people were sinners and the ONLY way to redemption was to focus on Christ's actions on the cross I can guarantee you would lose a lot of the folks you have here.

Evangelicals have a very narrow focus of acceptability. Huckabee will play well with that crowd because I believe he probably believes all of the four mentioned criteria. Ron Paul however, will not play well with that crowd. If you try to force him into that box, 1. you are lying; and 2. he can't hold a candle to Huckabee.

So why try?

That is not to say that you can't sell him to Christians, just not evangelicals. And I wouldn't make it a part of any ads that you run because you only have a few seconds to say something and to waste that on his being Christian when they are all Christians is to lose precious air time. Why not just say he is for lower taxes too? Then he can really sound like all the rest of them.

Ron Paul is special. Unique. He is not unique because he is a white Christian man running for the President of the U.S. If you try to sell him as such, you will lose because there is no reason to vote for him.

Tell me, seriously, is the number one reason you are voting for Ron Paul because he is a Christian? If so, then why did you pick Ron Paul?

If it is a requirement, then you are in luck, no matter which candidate you pick you get a Christian. So again, why Ron Paul?

If you answer anything else, such as his beliefs on liberty, the Constitution, freedom, smaller government, etc. then don't you think we should try to sell him on the basis of those reasons?

[ionlyknowy]

Ron Paul is republican. This alone, in the eyes of many, is enough to lay out his positions on issues that evangelicals seem to care about. RP will gain nothing by trying to out-Huckster the Huckster. Going in that direction will take time and energy, and will not be particularly fruitful exercise. RP doesn't flout his religion b/c he's too much of a Christian to do that, and this is not what RP is good at.

What RP is good at and what makes him distinctive among republicans is his credible stances against wars and against a large federal government. No one can compete with him on these issues.

I don't think anyone here should ignore evangelical votes, but it will be very difficult to change RP into an 'evangelical candidate'. Also, people have enough of those to choose from. We should stick to what we're best at rather than expend our limited energy on remaking RP in the Huckster's image.

Yeah, I agree... Ron Paul should talk more about his faith... BUT if he pushes it too hard at this point it will be seen as bad pandering in light of Hucks recent success by pandering to Christians. He beat us to it.

Now all we can do is throw it out there, but not press the issue.

[Mark]

Ron Paul is republican. This alone, in the eyes of many, is enough to lay out his positions on issues that evangelicals seem to care about. RP will gain nothing by trying to out-Huckster the Huckster. Going in that direction will take time and energy, and will not be particularly fruitful exercise. RP doesn't flout his religion b/c he's too much of a Christian to do that, and this is not what RP is good at.

What RP is good at and what makes him distinctive among republicans is his credible stances against wars and against a large federal government. No one can compete with him on these issues.

I don't think anyone here should ignore evangelical votes, but it will be very difficult to change RP into an 'evangelical candidate'. Also, people have enough of those to choose from. We should stick to what we're best at rather than expend our limited energy on remaking RP in the Huckster's image.

I didn't see your post before I posted last. I see you have the basically the same idea.

If I'm good at math, and bad at cooking, I'm not going to try to teach cooking, I'm going to stick with math.

And I'm not going to interject myself into a conversation about cooking.

Same with the issues.

[wildflower]

You are indeed a wise wildflower. ;)

Have you seen the page I made that has the endorsement by Chuck and the Pastor's Forum Chuck introduced Ron at?

---> http://ronpaul.cc/video/ronpaul/Chuc...n_Ron_Paul.htm (http://ronpaul.cc/video/ronpaul/Chuck_Baldwin_Ron_Paul.htm)

(I've got more work to do on the page - but it's okay to send to someone as it is)

It also has a audio interview with Chuck and ron plus Ron's statement of Faith and press release about his "Sanctity of Life Bill"

And I've got a page with specifically a comparison with Huck.

here: http://ronpaul.cc/images/Ron/Christi...tian_Flyer.htm (http://ronpaul.cc/images/Ron/Christian/Christian_Flyer.htm)

Thanks for the kind words. :D I'll check out that page. And we really need to get the word out to christians or others considering Huckabee about all those red flags and the fact that he isn't a true conservative on many issues, but he's just a smooth talker full of hot air.

Unfortunately, the MSM has been helping him out, so we definitely have an uphill battle. But people need to know the reality.





Ron Paul supporters want Ron Paul to avoid being mainstream, but magically win over the main stream republican voters....80% of republican voters in Iowa think the terrorist boogie man is coming to0 get us, yet people flip out if he even uses the word terrorist....The Republican Christians want pro-life, but people flip out every time he mentions being a Christian....

You can NOT win over the mainstream republican vote if we bitch every time Ron Paul tries to appeal to them on issues....too many supporters want him to take on the mainstream as if in a fight, but then expect mainstream voters to magically "wake up" and refuse mainstream thinking...it won't work.

I feel the same way! I have been amazed at the people here who think that things like his pro-life view is a bad thing (it is a good thing, to millions of people) and he shouldn't talk about it. Hello? He's running for the Republican nomination, not the Democratic party. Besides, he wants to leave it to the states.

We shouldn't be writing off Republicans, fer crying out loud, as some people seem to have been suggesting.



It's actually pretty simple. Ron Paul needs more Christian votes, and they can easily be obtained if Christians just know about him. He's a doctor who's delivered 4,000+ babies, a vietnam USAF veteran, been married 50+ years, and he's a good Christian man trying to do what's right for America (for a change) which will make a better WORLD for us and our children.

Yes, exactly, thank you!

[jabrownie]

If you hadn't noticed, the Christian right took a long time trying to decide who to support, this was because there weren't any decent candidates out there.

There is huckabee, who doesn't have the money to handle super tuesday,

There is Paul, who does have the money to handle super tuesday.

We need to cyphon off some of the Huckabee support yes, but more importantly, we need to make sure we're next in line to pick up his support when he has to drop out. This doesn't mean do a Bible thump pander like Huck, but it does mean that we at least need to let the people know that Paul has been, and remains a solid Christian.

That and we need to let them know about Paul's military service to help pick up some of the McCain voters when he drops out.

[Liberty Star]

I think they are tough recruits, RP has much better chance of getting better results in other demographics. Church going Americans still support Iraq war over non-Churcg going ones 2:1 !

Religious minds are hard to change fast. Maybe just ignore them, America is not Iowa. The effort that will take to convert one pro-war, pro-Bush evangelical can convert 3 anti Iraq war Independent/Dem Americans and there are lots of them.

[Mark]

Well Mark, if you aren't trying to push it down someone's throat then why have a signature? Of course you are trying to push the church. In fact, you have a link to a chip in to give money to a church. What you think if I had a chip in to help Hitler, or Satan, or Buddah, or any other particular group? I can bet you a ton of money that someone on this board would be offended.

Since I am trying to reach the most number of Paul supporters as possible, I try not to offend anyone. But you were the one throwing stones in your glass house. I just pointed it out.

And marketing to Christians is not the same as marketing to evangelicals. They are a very special sect of Christianity. You cannot call all Christians evangelicals.

The characteristics of Evangelicalism as defined by David Bebbington, in his study of British evangelicalism, are known as the Bebbington Quadrilateral, [1], the four characteristics of evangelicals are :

1. Conversionism - Emphasis on the conversion experience, also called being saved, or new birth or born again after John 3:3. Thus evangelicals often refer to themselves as born-again Christians. This experience is said to be received by "faith alone" and to be given by God as the result of "grace alone".
2. Biblicism - The Protestant canon of the Bible, as God's revelation to humanity, is the primary source of religious authority. Thus, the doctrine of sola scriptura is often emphasized. Bible prophecy, especially as interpreted according to dispensationalism, is often emphasized as well.
3. Activism - Encouragement of evangelism—the act of persuading others of one's beliefs—in organized missionary work or by personal encounters and relationships with others.
4. Crucicentrism - A central focus on Christ's redeeming work on the cross as the only means for salvation and the forgiveness of sins.


If this is the crowd you now want to pitch to, then re-read my post above where I explain why this crowd and the typical Ron Paul crowd don't mix well. Ron Paul preaches non-interference and letting people live their lives the way they want. He does not try to persuade others of his beliefs. If he did I think he would lose most of the people on this forum.

I also think that if Ron Paul started saying that people were sinners and the ONLY way to redemption was to focus on Christ's actions on the cross I can guarantee you would lose a lot of the folks you have here.

Evangelicals have a very narrow focus of acceptability. Huckabee will play well with that crowd because I believe he probably believes all of the four mentioned criteria. Ron Paul however, will not play well with that crowd. If you try to force him into that box, 1. you are lying; and 2. he can't hold a candle to Huckabee.

So why try?

That is not to say that you can't sell him to Christians, just not evangelicals. And I wouldn't make it a part of any ads that you run because you only have a few seconds to say something and to waste that on his being Christian when they are all Christians is to lose precious air time. Why not just say he is for lower taxes too? Then he can really sound like all the rest of them.

Ron Paul is special. Unique. He is not unique because he is a white Christian man running for the President of the U.S. If you try to sell him as such, you will lose because there is no reason to vote for him.

Tell me, seriously, is the number one reason you are voting for Ron Paul because he is a Christian? If so, then why did you pick Ron Paul?

If it is a requirement, then you are in luck, no matter which candidate you pick you get a Christian. So again, why Ron Paul?

If you answer anything else, such as his beliefs on liberty, the Constitution, freedom, smaller government, etc. then don't you think we should try to sell him on the basis of those reasons?

Why does anyone have links in their signature? They have a cause ect they're promoting.

Should everyone remove links that another person might disagree with?

I thought we were all adults and didn't get our scarfs in a wad because we don't totally agree on everything someone else might.

I think you know that the Libertarian ideals are inclusive with or without a majority opinion.

No, the fact that Ron's a Christian isn't why I support him, but I'm smart enough to know that it might make a difference with some,
so, I use that tool along with others that befit the occasion.

For a point, last week I discussed Ron with a local GOP party leader, he mentioned "Evangelicals", I didn't even know what the definition was.

He said it had to do with "Right To Life" issues. At least that was the only thing he mentioned. I was able to point out Ron's stance on the issue.

It helped to reach him.

I think little distinctions like that between Christians are hurtful. It's one reason I started my own Church AND Denomination.

I don't like things like that that divide Christians.

Every voter is an individual, and like any other type of marketing, you reach people where they are.

You find what makes them tick, and you promote that area with them.

I'm just counting on people who know about Ron and the deeper reasons we as a country and world need him to be wise enough not to get all upset over a stupid signature and not cause derision over meaningless things.

See, I don't need to spend this valuable time explaining simple things to someone who just wants to argue .

That's why I said, maybe it's better if you just leave the forum like you said and quit wasting people's time over stupid meaningless things.

I've got better things to do than discuss things that are unproductive with you.

[OptionsTrader]

Ron Paul is a far better Jesus candidate than Huckabee, but so many of you just don't want to talk about that aspect of Ron Paul.

Evangelicals are a big part of the party and are perfectly capable of supporting Ron Paul.

A lot of people don't realise that Ron Paul is born again. I had spent a while talking to people about Ron Paul but they wouldn't support him, until I mentioned his faith. They had no idea he was a christian.

This speech got me and a got a lot of my christian friends:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZpuIXEzWk

Ron Paul has a far better grasp of abortion and its complexities than any other candidate. His position is also much closer to the Bible than any of Hucks.

The evangelical vote should be firmly behind Ron Paul. This is something we should work on.

Blessed are the peace makers.

Ron says he believes Jesus is the prince of peace, not of war.

Learn about the planks of the just war theory, and promote it even if you do not personally believe in God, it's a very good set of rules for not going to war.

A video I made in October trying to capture his speeches on the Just War Theory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hCKZmkF0VU

[Mark]

I think they are tough recruits, RP has much better chance of getting better results in other demographics. Church going Americans still support Iraq war over non-Churcg going ones 2:1 !

Religious minds are hard to change fast. Maybe just ignore them, America is not Iowa. The effort that will take to convert one pro-war, pro-Bush evangelical can convert 3 anti Iraq war Independent/Dem Americans and there are lots of them.


Yeah they're tough, but they vote en mass - and they'll convince a hundred others like them to vote as well.

Just imagine if someone came up with a way to convince a hard core Evangelical Huck supporter to switch to Ron, we'd have 'em all.

[Vox Populi]

I think they are tough recruits, RP has much better chance of getting better results in other demographics. Church going Americans still support Iraq war over non-Churcg going ones 2:1 !

Religious minds are hard to change fast. Maybe just ignore them, America is not Iowa. The effort that will take to convert one pro-war, pro-Bush evangelical can convert 3 anti Iraq war Independent/Dem Americans and there are lots of them.

To ignore Christians would be a bad idea. Christians (believe it or not) make up alot of the voting populous, and so they have a big voice.

I don't think you have to change any Christian's mind to vote for Ron Paul. I think Christians just need to know about him.

Christians need to know that Ron Paul has received more donations from the military than anyone else. Christians need to know about Ron Paul's adherence to the constitution. Christians need to hear about his views on states' rights that gives more power to the people.

[passerby]

Mark, sorry that I didn't read the thread more carefully.

I think there are issues that you can use for offense in a campaign, and other you can better use for defense. Offense requires more time and energy, while defense requires less, just like war.

It's easier for RP to go on the offense with issues that are distinctive for him. He has NO competition in the issues of anti-war and drastically smaller federal government. RP's own distinction makes his efforts on these fronts very time/energy efficient. People flock to the message without having to fight others for them.

Evangelical issues should be kept ready, but should be used for defensive purposes. You can try taking away RP voters with such issues, but you're not going to be very successful. He already has a record that does not require much time & energy to defend. Likewise, you can try to get other supporters with these issues, but you already have competition, so it'll be more difficult.

Given the limited amounts of time and energy that this campaign has, I think it would be the best use of resources to focus on issues where going on the offensive is easiest, while defending ourselves as needed. Of course, if you can get lots of mileage for your particular audience with an evangelical message, by all means go for it - you're getting a good yield for the amount of time/energy expended. However, this will be uncharacteristic when there is competition on the issue.

Despite RP's popularity and notoriety in the internet and some quarters of society, he's still not well known in much of America. A campaign trying to get RP noticed focusing on evangelical matters will be very difficult with so many competitors. A campaign based on his other positions will be easier, in my opinion. Again, I think it's about getting the biggest supporter 'bang' for the time/energy 'buck'. What I call offense issues are most efficient for getting new supporters, while defense issues are absolutely necessary and most efficient for retaining the flock, in my opinion.

[Mark]

Blessed are the peace makers.

Ron says he believes Jesus is the prince of peace, not of war.

Learn about the planks of the just war theory, and promote it even if you do not personally believe in God, it's a very good set of rules for not going to war.

A video I made in October trying to capture his speeches on the Just War Theory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hCKZmkF0VU

Exactly! That's the point I've been trying to make about True Righteousness, True Christianity.

If we could just open up the eyes of people who support Huck based on the fact that he's a "minister" to what is Truth, we'd have something.

Huck has even lied about being a degreed minister. He's got so much non-Christian baggage it's ridiculous.

Some people just hear "Minister" and follow right along.

It really shouldn't be a surprise. As someone mentioned, Jesus warned us about "wolves in sheep's clothing".

[OptionsTrader]

Christ is for peace, not for war. Christ does not advocate preemptive undeclared wars of aggression.

If Ron said that 1000 times when Huckabee's name comes up, they'd start to re-think their pick.

[jabrownie]

Mark, sorry that I didn't read the thread more carefully.

I think there are issues that you can use for offense in a campaign, and other you can better use for defense. Offense requires more time and energy, while defense requires less, just like war.

It's easier for RP to go on the offense with issues that are distinctive for him. He has NO competition in the issues of anti-war and drastically smaller federal government. RP's own distinction makes his efforts on these fronts very time/energy efficient. People flock to the message without having to fight others for them.

Evangelical issues should be kept ready, but should be used for defensive purposes. You can try taking away RP voters with such issues, but you're not going to be very successful. He already has a record that does not require much time & energy to defend. Likewise, you can try to get other supporters with these issues, but you already have competition, so it'll be more difficult.

Given the limited amounts of time and energy that this campaign has, I think it would be the best use of resources to focus on issues where going on the offensive is easiest, while defending ourselves as needed. Of course, if you can get lots of mileage for your particular audience with an evangelical message, by all means go for it - you're getting a good yield for the amount of time/energy expended. However, this will be uncharacteristic when there is competition on the issue.

Despite RP's popularity and notoriety in the internet and some quarters of society, he's still not well known in much of America. A campaign trying to get RP noticed focusing on evangelical matters will be very difficult with so many competitors. A campaign based on his other positions will be easier, in my opinion. Again, I think it's about getting the biggest supporter 'bang' for the time/energy 'buck'. What I call offense issues are most efficient for getting new supporters, while defense issues are absolutely necessary and most efficient for retaining the flock, in my opinion.

Don't think anybody's suggesting a big push on the evangelical front; not like Huck has done. The idea, however, is just to let people know that he acutally is a Christian. Right now, almost none of them know that. And yes, it is important, look how long it took for them to find someone they could support, it took forever, and the Huckster was at the bottom of their list. When he's out, they'll need to find someone new, we should be ready.

That and the two ideas you mentioned, anti-war (peace) and small government (good fiscal stewardship) are both considered by Christians to be Christian principles; so it is possible to deliver both messages at once, and therefore not use up any additional resources in doing so.

[Mark]

Mark, sorry that I didn't read the thread more carefully.

I think there are issues that you can use for offense in a campaign, and other you can better use for defense. Offense requires more time and energy, while defense requires less, just like war.

It's easier for RP to go on the offense with issues that are distinctive for him. He has NO competition in the issues of anti-war and drastically smaller federal government. RP's own distinction makes his efforts on these fronts very time/energy efficient. People flock to the message without having to fight others for them.

Evangelical issues should be kept ready, but should be used for defensive purposes. You can try taking away RP voters with such issues, but you're not going to be very successful. He already has a record that does not require much time & energy to defend. Likewise, you can try to get other supporters with these issues, but you already have competition, so it'll be more difficult.

Given the limited amounts of time and energy that this campaign has, I think it would be the best use of resources to focus on issues where going on the offensive is easiest, while defending ourselves as needed. Of course, if you can get lots of mileage for your particular audience with an evangelical message, by all means go for it - you're getting a good yield for the amount of time/energy expended. However, this will be uncharacteristic when there is competition on the issue.

Despite RP's popularity and notoriety in the internet and some quarters of society, he's still not well known in much of America. A campaign trying to get RP noticed focusing on evangelical matters will be very difficult with so many competitors. A campaign based on his other positions will be easier, in my opinion. Again, I think it's about getting the biggest supporter 'bang' for the time/energy 'buck'. What I call offense issues are most efficient for getting new supporters, while defense issues are absolutely necessary and most efficient for retaining the flock, in my opinion.

I understand and agree for vastly the most part.

Adding, perhaps we should only "defend" to the point of pointing out that Huck has no "advantage" over Ron in terms of Christianity.

Just because Huck's a minister, doesn't make him more worthy to vote for in terms of Christianity.

It shouldn't be a reason to vote for Huck over Ron.

And Ron even has a much better track record in terms of actions in Congress
that support Christian ideals of Truth, Liberty and Righteousness ect.

I think a big problem lies in what's a big problem in recent Christian movements and religion in general.

Religion has a big negative connotation to a lot of people because Religion has been used to manipulate people for so long
by those who have no true care about what's right and true.

That needs to be corrected more than Ron needs to be elected. Well, in the immediate, Ron needs to be elected first,
to save the world from certain woes that will come upon it if the status quo is maintained.

[Vox Populi]

Don't think anybody's suggesting a big push on the evangelical front; not like Huck has done. The idea, however, is just to let people know that he acutally is a Christian. Right now, almost none of them know that. And yes, it is important, look how long it took for them to find someone they could support, it took forever, and the Huckster was at the bottom of their list. When he's out, they'll need to find someone new, we should be ready.

That and the two ideas you mentioned, anti-war (peace) and small government (good fiscal stewardship) are both considered by Christians to be Christian principles; so it is possible to deliver both messages at once, and therefore not use up any additional resources in doing so.

+1

Nice post. We need Christian votes without pandering. It can easily be done simply by informing Christians about Ron Paul and informing them that Ron Paul's platform lines up with the Christian platform. We don't need Dr. Paul to come out on some stage and preach a sermon, we just need Christians to find out about what Dr. Paul stands for and what his beliefs are. They will get it.

[1town]

It's not a matter of Huckabee getting Christian votes because he's christian. It's because a large part of the christians want more theocratic fascism, and there's no pandering Ron Paul can do to appeal to them. There's a long way from fascism to liberty.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

It's not a matter of Huckabee getting Christian votes because he's christian. It's because a large part of the christians want more theocratic fascism, and there's no pandering Ron Paul can do to appeal to them. There's a long way from fascism to liberty.

He's RELIGIOUS.... please don't call him a Christian...

[fj45lvr]

no, the iowan christians are the ones I cant stomach right now... lol

I think you are making some pretty big assumptions that are just "off" a little bit.

I would hardly say that Iowan christians are responsible for McCain, Romney, and FRED beating us.

Why don't you say you can't stomach the IOWAN Republicans right now.

I detest the political viewpoints many of them seem to have but personally I DO NOT believe that their beliefs are with MALICE because I truly believe they are IGNORANT of 90% of Paul's message which is the MESSAGE of the FOUNDERS (which I truly believe Conservatives would resonate with if they actually KNEW that).

The "fly" in the ointment is the FEAR CARD and this "tool" of the "boogeyman" that has them BLINDED....they just don't realize it yet, and they do NOT have a fundamental understanding of the HEINOUS wedge that the crime of the ZIONIST state has in this whole scenario (no thanks to the propaganda of the media)......if these people could place themselves in the SHOES of others it would DO MIRACLES for our future (but alas they are BLIND to the HYPOCRISY and INJUSTICE (as our AMERICAN HISTORY shows we have been to the NATIVE AMERICANS which we stole from and killed with impunity as "savages")......History is doomed to repeat itself???

the SILVER LINING is as Paul has spoken of in some of his addresses that eventually the nation as a whole will have to "come around" as we face the financial crisis, because the ONLY way out is LIBERTY (the most profitable and productive principle for PROSPERITY).

[fj45lvr]

He's RELIGIOUS.... please don't call him a Christian...

He is a "decieved" believer if he is actually one at all. Jesus would never be one to actually promote killing people with Cruise missles for "honor". It is amazing that the "so-called" christian "right" in the U.S. for the greater part cannot see the DECEPTION they have in regards to the KILLING of the ARABS. Until they actually are "convicted" of that truth they are doomed (and we along with them) to be "tools" of EVIL (whose mission is to STEAL, KILL, and DESTROY: pretty much what they have chosen when there is another WAY!!! The way that our founders laid out for us and they completely ignore. If these believers actually read their scripture they would realize that FEAR is not from GOD. Their FEARS have led them astray.

[idiom]

A while I go I posted about the Christian Press ommitting Ron Paul from their coverage of the candidates. The Christan Press should be having a fight between Huck and Paul, but they are not.

When I mentioned this omission there was no outrage at all. I e-mailed them but nobody else seemed to care. Don't let some random blogger Omit paul without an avalanche of email, but the Christian Press, yeah they get a free pass.

We are letting Huck run un-opposed. This is most of my point. We can't afford this, we have to start fighting Obama soon.


If these believers actually read their scripture they would realize that FEAR is not from GOD. Their FEARS have led them astray.

As always, you don't need to be brave if you have nothing to fear. America is not the land of the secure or the home of the surveilled.

[1town]

He's RELIGIOUS.... please don't call him a Christian...

He's a Christian. Cry about it all you want, you don't get to rule christianity

[Vox Populi]

Yes, exactly, thank you!

You're welcome. No wait, thank you. :)

ETA: Christians might like to know that Ron Paul is against the WTO and the UN.

[noztnac]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/78241

http://www.newsweek.com/media/4/071214_PS11HuckabeeJr_vm-vertical.jpg

Evangelicals need to read this article and see this picture.

[tfelice]

Huckabee will eventually implode when his statist positions become more critically examined. Limbaugh had done that some, and will continue to do so. Limbaugh gets a lot of listeners from the Evangelical base.

Evangelicals will be looking for a Christian candidate and Paul can be that candidate since there are no others in the field. But, and this is a huge but, Evangelicals as a whole will not rally around a candidate that has no chance to win. So it is imperative that Paul has wins & seconds between now and Super Tuesday. If he keeps coming in with 10% or so then he won't even be on the radar screen of those looking for another choice.

[Triton]

Speaking as a non-Zionist evangelical, we are a rare breed, one which Hucksterbee will never appeal to. We will also never appeal to them (Zionists) on a broad scale.

Huckabee preached at a Christian Zionist church not long ago. They want someone who, plain and simple, will spill American blood for israel. Paul won't do that, and that's one of the main reasons I will vote for him, and why many evangelicals won't.

[jrich4rpaul]

This is the wrong place to be saying this, even though it's right. We need to get the religious voters.

But we had a poll up here that showed about 2/3 of this forum's members are athiest. How many of them will be willing to talk about faith effectively?

[Guymontag]

Speaking as a non-Zionist evangelical, we are a rare breed, one which Hucksterbee will never appeal to. We will also never appeal to them (Zionists) on a broad scale.

Huckabee preached at a Christian Zionist church not long ago. They want someone who, plain and simple, will spill American blood for israel. Paul won't do that, and that's one of the main reasons I will vote for him, and why many evangelicals won't.


Maybe the baptists and such have such imperialistic goals, but walk into a charismatic church and you'll find a whole group of Christians who would be willing to support peace. So if you guys are interested in stealing some of the evangelical base, start at the charismatics! They may seem like a bunch of tongue speaking wierdos but they have REAL Christian convictions. I was once told by a charismatic that we should forgive the terrorists instead of bomb them, flying over the al qaeda training camps dropping flyers that said "we love you" and "we forgive you".

Seriously folks I have already made head way with local charismatics that want an anti war and anti abortion candidate. This is a legit group that we can steal from Huck. If you really want to progress here I will do my best to help you guys find charismatic churches in your area.

[constituent]

Unfortunately, everyone here cringes when he brings up abortion, and wants him to hide the fact that he' s a Christian.

what? enough of the collectivism this morning .... fer rills.


way too many, "everyone here" and way too much "we" this morning.

probably the best way to sway the inculcated christian masses to our side is
to examine why the unawares aren't "aware that he is a christian" simply
because he doesn't flaunt it.

it's an ideology thing... and you will have to fight to break that ideological
hold, otherwise "they" will just shift around based on which way the wind
blows (that particularly) sunday. you can't fight preacher men who
are nothing more than wolves in sheep's clothing, using their bibles
as guiji boards to justify their crimes and the crimes of their leaders...

and their followers are just that, followers. you will have to take it upon
yourself to seize back the initiative of spiritual guidance w/in your community,
and you might have to step on some toes...

but you'll get nowhere otherwise. people who will blindly follow the same snakes
that've led them astray this long will not be easily woken from their slumber....


and i don't think the internet is going to help in this regard...


just some thoughts, one texan to another!

[fj45lvr]

Speaking as a non-Zionist evangelical, we are a rare breed, one which Hucksterbee will never appeal to. We will also never appeal to them (Zionists) on a broad scale.

Huckabee preached at a Christian Zionist church not long ago. They want someone who, plain and simple, will spill American blood for israel. Paul won't do that, and that's one of the main reasons I will vote for him, and why many evangelicals won't.

welcome to the frustration of the Arab world and the Palestinian nightmare....its only been 60 years now.

Religious wars are insanity......pass out Mark Twains " the war prayer"...this really drives it home.

http://www.warprayer.org/

Maybe these folks should pay closer attention to Jesus calling out the Jewish Pharisees as "the children of Satan" to rectify their delusional support for UNGODLY people no matter what creed or race they claim for themselves.

[constituent]

for ease and convenience from the war prayer:



"Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it --

For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!

We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.

(After a pause.) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits."

[Ron Galt]

The Children of the Corn have spoken <insert speaking in tounges here>. You can't reason with these people. They are not worth wasting time on.

[Macon, GA]

My husband is a pastor in a Reformed Presbyterian church. Just for the record, in our denomination, most church parking lots look like a Ron Paul rally due to all of the bumperstickers and magnets.

Don't count out the evangelical vote....

I read somewhere that Judge Roy Moore just endorsed Ron Paul. Is this true? If so, it could have a major impact on the evangelical vote.

Those of us who take time to read, think and actually vote see right through Mike Huckabee. His constant pandering to the Christian vote disgusts me.

[Guymontag]

The Children of the Corn have spoken <insert speaking in tounges here>. You can't reason with these people. They are not worth wasting time on.

I pretty much just gave you guys a lead that I've been having success with. Try charismatics and pentacostals. I fall into that category and most of them I know like Pat Buchanan alot, and we know Pat is down with Paul for the most part. Maybe just start out with hey do you like Pat Buchanan? Oh then you'll love Ron Paul.

Don't give up on these guys, they decide elections.

[Guymontag]

My husband is a pastor in a Reformed Presbyterian church. Just for the record, in our denomination, most church parking lots look like a Ron Paul rally due to all of the bumperstickers and magnets.

Don't count out the evangelical vote....

I read somewhere that Judge Roy Moore just endorsed Ron Paul. Is this true? If so, it could have a major impact on the evangelical vote.

Those of us who take time to read, think and actually vote see right through Mike Huckabee. His constant pandering to the Christian vote disgusts me.

Macon, GA? Saint Marys, GA reporting in!

[fj45lvr]

Those of us who take time to read, think and actually vote see right through Mike Huckabee. His constant pandering to the Christian vote disgusts me.

no kidding. Paul talks about this in a interview done on the "americanview" whereas Jesus instructed that people should pray in solitude instead of out in public so everyone can see them. Not to mention his driving the money changers out of the temple which most definetly shows his anger for using GOD for "profits" even if that means "political profits".

[StateofTrance]

Although we can reach out to them, EvanJihadis are a bunch of brainwashed folks. They can't be "re-programmed" to the message of peace & liberty.

[Guymontag]

Although we can reach out to them, EvanJihadis are a bunch of brainwashed folks. They can't be "re-programmed" to the message of peace & liberty.

I remember bashing lesbians and feminists saying that they wont touch a pro life candidate (see The View clip on youtube) and the entire board jumped on me for it. But now were having trouble reaching out to Christians? Ron Paul has Christian values, there is no reason that Christians WOULDNT vote for Ron Paul. Dont be such a defeatist. Take my advice and go see some Charismatics and Pentecoastals. And we wont win a nomination without them... mark my words.

[fj45lvr]

Although we can reach out to them, EvanJihadis are a bunch of brainwashed folks. They can't be "re-programmed" to the message of peace & liberty.

WRONG. Who do you think thought up the US constitution??? Educate yourself buddy.

Why would they be different than half the population that are socialists??

Liberty is GOD's principle. Peace is most definetly of GOD.

be frustrated at DECEPTION and "false teaching".

Yes, there is a "stereotype" that holds some generalizations but NOT in relation to what you are stating.

[StateofTrance]

Guymontag & fj45lvr -

You see, there's a difference between Christians and EvanJihadis - It's only the semantics that brings them together.

Don't get confused. Christians in general can be won over. EvenJihadis? Well, hard time, unless we get endorsements from their jihadi leaders.

[noztnac]

It's not that we are ignoring the evangelicals. It's that we are tip toeing around the war issue. Check out this link:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=74702

[fj45lvr]

It's not that we are ignoring the evangelicals. It's that we are tip toeing around the war issue. Check out this link:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=74702

very true there.

we're most likely reaping the consequences (recieving blowback from) having people here become "desensitized" by way of our perverse "entertainment" in films and TV....I never watched it but I heard about a film series called "faces of death") people are esentially totally detached from the reality (and I hear this from friends that live in Israel too who only live miles away from the west bank and they are in a completely different "bubble" of a world detached from the reality of those "on the wrong side of the check points".

[LibertyEagle]

But now were having trouble reaching out to Christians? Ron Paul has Christian values, there is no reason that Christians WOULDNT vote for Ron Paul. Dont be such a defeatist. Take my advice and go see some Charismatics and Pentecoastals. And we wont win a nomination without them... mark my words.

+1

[RoyalShock]

Winning over evangelical Christians must be a long-term goal of the "revolution". It's not just for this election, but for the future of America. We (I am an evangelical Christian) have been told since at least 1994 that we must "vote our values". We were told that all legislation is some form of morality and if we don't get our morality legislated then someone else will get their morality legislated.

The so-called "leaders" have hammered and hammered this line of thinking on the Christian voting base for at least a generation. One candidate is not going to suddenly change their way of thinking. It is going to take time and it is going to take Christians who "get it" to win the hearts and minds, using sound biblical doctrine and constitutional principles, of the Christians who don't get it. It is a complicated issue. Broad brush strokes aren't going to get it done.

Every pastor that can be won over is a coup. But here is an approach I think will get a foot in the door of most Christians (keep in mind, Christians aren't unlike other voters in that some, particularly if they fall on the Democratic side of gov't filling their requirement to help people, won't change their minds):

- Ask them what two political issues are most important to them.
- Inform them that Ron Paul is a born-again Christian.
- Explain Ron Paul's position on those issues. For some (or many) this will get them at least receptive to Paul's platform and hopefully, rethinking their views.
- Others will probably come back with arguments that the federal gov't should be doing things we believe it shouldn't. That is the time to discuss Christ's teachings, particularly emphasizing who Jesus was instructing (individuals).
- Qualify EVERYTHING by demonstrating how strict adherence to the Constitution allows Christians the most freedom to exercise their faith. This was one of many goals by the founding fathers.
- Argue (state a case) that attempting to legislate our morality will only alienate and harden the hearts of those that we, as evengelicals, are trying to reach for Christ.

Sorry for the bump, but I think this is a worthy discussion.

[Talldude1412]

Winning over evangelical Christians must be a long-term goal of the "revolution". It's not just for this election, but for the future of America. We (I am an evangelical Christian) have been told since at least 1994 that we must "vote our values". We were told that all legislation is some form of morality and if we don't get our morality legislated then someone else will get their morality legislated.

The so-called "leaders" have hammered and hammered this line of thinking on the Christian voting base for at least a generation. One candidate is not going to suddenly change their way of thinking. It is going to take time and it is going to take Christians who "get it" to win the hearts and minds, using sound biblical doctrine and constitutional principles, of the Christians who don't get it. It is a complicated issue. Broad brush strokes aren't going to get it done.

Every pastor that can be won over is a coup. But here is an approach I think will get a foot in the door of most Christians (keep in mind, Christians aren't unlike other voters in that some, particularly if they fall on the Democratic side of gov't filling their requirement to help people, won't change their minds):

- Ask them what two political issues are most important to them.
- Inform them that Ron Paul is a born-again Christian.
- Explain Ron Paul's position on those issues. For some (or many) this will get them at least receptive to Paul's platform and hopefully, rethinking their views.
- Others will probably come back with arguments that the federal gov't should be doing things we believe it shouldn't. That is the time to discuss Christ's teachings, particularly emphasizing who Jesus was instructing (individuals).
- Qualify EVERYTHING by demonstrating how strict adherence to the Constitution allows Christians the most freedom to exercise their faith. This was one of many goals by the founding fathers.
- Argue (state a case) that attempting to legislate our morality will only alienate and harden the hearts of those that we, as evengelicals, are trying to reach for Christ.

Sorry for the bump, but I think this is a worthy discussion.

+ 1 billions for effective dialogue.

[John of Des Moines]

Ron Paul is a far better Jesus candidate than Huckabee, but so many of you just don't want to talk about that aspect of Ron Paul.
...
The evangelical vote should be firmly behind Ron Paul. This is something we should work on.

Hate to disagree with you but the campaign went after the Evangelicals and many, many of them walk around with blinders on. They'll do whatever the human in the pulpit tells them. They won't go discover on their own the necessary information to discover the correct choice. The only ones who support people are the ones who are willing to devote time and energy into finding the truth. And the campaign did target the Christian vote, i.e. Drew Ivers and Paul Dorr. Doctor Paul was the subject of a whisper campaign from the sheople herders.

[freelance]

I don't think we have a prayer of getting through to the INDIVIDUALS you all want to target. You want to get the Christian vote? Then, you have to get to the pastors.

[JMann]

'We' haven't ignored evangelicals, they are welcome just like anyone else. Seems to me they have decided to ignore 'us'.

[Sandra]

I think one needs to separate "corporate" evangelicals, whom politicos pander to, and mainstream evangelical who tend to lean more toward separation of church and state. Southern and Independant Baptists are corporate and mix a lot of politics in their services. Catholic, Methodists, and most other Protestants are more separatist.

[Sandra]

Corporate religion cannot exist with free thinking or open education. It is crucial that schools and universities are sponsored by the targeted church as well as all activities both recreational and educational. From womb to tomb the average corporate evangelical rarely exists outside the groupthink of the church and will do anything his church elders tell him to do.

Enter Bush.
Bush is now the devider of evangelicals. He used Christian catch phrases and pretention to garner the easy pickens of the evangelical corporate vote. And why not, they were already tied up in a nice tidy package. A shift is taking place, however, evangelicals are seeing Bush as a traitor to his faith and theirs. He lied us into a war, and lied and lied. He has become so rancid in their eyes that some,, especially around here are talking about looking for candidates that IMPLEMENT Christian ideals rather than stumping them. This is also what mainstream Protestant and Catholics are going after.

[TruckinMike]

scenario-- An Average Dumb Atheist and Ron Paul supporter door to door canvassing;

DA:knock knock -- Hi, my name is billy, And i think All Christians are stupid. Oh, BTW, I'm supporting Ron Paul for President, Would you like a flyer?

Home Owner: "I would never vote for that ANti-Christion nut bag." -- SLAM!

This scenario is played out day after day after day right here on the Ron Paul forums. We have Thousands of visitors poking around checking out this site, all the while the DA RP supporters continue to bash Christians! Over and Over and Over.

Now lets change the scenario:

We have a Dumb CHristian RP supporter.

DC: Hi, my name is Fred, I'm a Christian and I think all atheist are going to burn in HELL, Oh BTW, I'm supporting Ron Paul for President, Would you like some literature?

Home owner: "I would never vote for that hateful Authoritarian god worshipping NAZI" ---SLAM

Lessons Learned:

Both of the above examples will not help the campaign. So why continue belittling any group. It serves no good purpose.

Remember, we are salesmen/saleswomen, here on the forum as much as at the door.

Just to set the record straight --- There are NO Christians running around this forum indiscriminately bashing atheists using derogatory adjectives as insults.

Sorry if I offended any atheists, but what I said is true.

PS- I refuse to even tell my church members about this forum. Why? I want them to vote for Ron Paul, and not be offended by insulting supporters.

TM

[ChelC]

I can't help but toss in my $.02

I don't believe we should play both sides of the card, unless we're consistently playing both sides... at the same time. The fact is that Paul's message is the same as our founders message and it's one of freedom. Freedom is something we can all rally behind.

Does Ron Paul support atheism, gay marriage and legalized drugs? No! That's the point, he's saying leave it to the people as the constitution intended. We might have one state that becomes the polar opposite of another because the majority in that state consist of a different people.

I will be honest here and say that I haven't posted all that much on this site because it is offensive. To get to good posts I have to wade through an awful lot of verbs being used as adjectives and nouns... if you catch my drift. I've never read more bashing of my religion in any one place before. If I was just looking into Paul and came here first, I might not get that far in my search to be honest.

As for Christians being one issue voters, well I don't think we should vote for someone just because they share our religious affiliation. However, I absolutely do not believe in seperating religious and political beliefs. My religion is my religion of choice because I believe in it with all of my heart. With stakes that high you'd better believe it encompasses every aspect of my life, and it's a factor in every decision I make and there with every breath I draw.

Paul has a strong atheist following AND he has a strong Christian following. While we try to get our man elected let's unite on what we have in common, and then later we can duke it out in our individual states over the issues of abortion, drugs and everything else.

Maybe an atheist can answer this question I've always had - an honest question, not an attack. Why the fuss over allowing someone to practice their religion in your presence? You know, how dare anyone say God in the pledge, or how dare anyone say a personal prayer in school? It seems to me that if you don't believe in God that it would be as offensive as someone talking to Santa Claus, or pledging to the flag under mickey mouse. I've always wondered that. Especially since many of the same people think they should have the freedom to swear in every sentence, and smoke doobies all the day long in public. When I lived in Hawaii we had to learn all about Pele and various Gods... we had to learn mythology in every school, we read about all major religions, but never ever were we allowed to discuss Christianity. What gives? Are atheists atheists because they don't believe in God, or because they are bitter about Christianity? It seems to me that it's been about 50/50 with the atheists I've personally met. Actually I think higher numbers had very religious parents who pushed them during adolescence into a religion that they didn't wholly believe and they rebelled. My personal experience is that some of those come back though, which leaves us still at about 50% bitter and 50% just don't buy it.

I figure since I've had to defend my faith here several times, evangelicals have too, that it's fair to ask these questions to some of the atheists out there. Not attacking your beliefs, just seeking clarification of what seems hypocritical to me.

[constituent]

I

Maybe an atheist can answer this question I've always had - an honest question, not an attack. Why the fuss over allowing someone to practice their religion in your presence? You know, how dare anyone say God in the pledge, or how dare anyone say a personal prayer in school? It seems to me that if you don't believe in God that it would be as offensive as someone talking to Santa Claus, or pledging to the flag under mickey mouse. I've always wondered that. Especially since many of the same people think they should have the freedom to swear in every sentence, and smoke doobies all the day long in public.

straw man, gimme a break...

::not an atheist, but::

when was the last time someone fussed at you for saying a personal prayer in school?

(piety, pass it on)

............


"how dare anyone say 'God' in a pledge?"

how dare you engage in idol worship, and then debase your creator by
throwing 'his' 'name' in there with it?

pledge allegiance to your creator, your savior or whomever you choose, but not a flag...
a symbol, an idol (as a "christian" you shouldn't have to be told this... tsk tsk)

"especially since some.... freedom to swear....smoke doobies all day long in public"

does not deserve a response.

........

"move over and share the high ground where you stood, you're so heavenly
minded you're no earthly good."

........

[fj45lvr]

Winning over evangelical Christians must be a long-term goal of the "revolution". It's not just for this election, but for the future of America. We (I am an evangelical Christian) have been told since at least 1994 that we must "vote our values". We were told that all legislation is some form of morality and if we don't get our morality legislated then someone else will get their morality legislated.

The so-called "leaders" have hammered and hammered this line of thinking on the Christian voting base for at least a generation. One candidate is not going to suddenly change their way of thinking. It is going to take time and it is going to take Christians who "get it" to win the hearts and minds, using sound biblical doctrine and constitutional principles, of the Christians who don't get it. It is a complicated issue. Broad brush strokes aren't going to get it done.

Every pastor that can be won over is a coup. But here is an approach I think will get a foot in the door of most Christians (keep in mind, Christians aren't unlike other voters in that some, particularly if they fall on the Democratic side of gov't filling their requirement to help people, won't change their minds):

- Ask them what two political issues are most important to them.
- Inform them that Ron Paul is a born-again Christian.
- Explain Ron Paul's position on those issues. For some (or many) this will get them at least receptive to Paul's platform and hopefully, rethinking their views.
- Others will probably come back with arguments that the federal gov't should be doing things we believe it shouldn't. That is the time to discuss Christ's teachings, particularly emphasizing who Jesus was instructing (individuals).
- Qualify EVERYTHING by demonstrating how strict adherence to the Constitution allows Christians the most freedom to exercise their faith. This was one of many goals by the founding fathers.
- Argue (state a case) that attempting to legislate our morality will only alienate and harden the hearts of those that we, as evengelicals, are trying to reach for Christ.

Sorry for the bump, but I think this is a worthy discussion.

and let them know that their ideas they seek to implement may well be turned and used AGAINST THEM (the biggest reason it is WRONG to FEDERALLY legislate controls (not within the Constitution) because it will very well be that those instituted will NOT be the ones you were thinking of)....live by sword/die by sword and if they stuck to the Constitution they wouldn't have to live under the THREAT of their darkest dream or vision.

[ChelC]

Um... okay.

I guess the doobies remark sounded like I was lumping in all atheists there. I'll give you that. I'm an idealist and I do that sometimes. The question though is an honest one, and one that hasn't ever been answered for me.

Why is it that when I respond honestly I get this moral highground stuff? It's like Christian people cannot open their mouths without someone saying we're trying to make off like we're better. I just want to go on a forum without someone trying to make me out to be a country bumpkin with mush for brains because I believe in my Creator.

If I replied to this thread saying something offensive to Christians I would have gotten a dozen LOLs.

[Redcard]

I am new to Ron Paul, and am checking him out. One thing that really bothers me is that it appears people think the man's Christianity is not an issue to how he'll run government. In checking his voting record, though, I see issues where he believes that Churches should be allowed to politic from the pulpit. I see a lot of tax relief (which is good), and a lot of defenses of christianity in government (which is not.) Now, I'm trying to figure out if he believes that the US should be a theocracy (since he votes along those lines.. in votes regarding God in GOvernment, the Right seems to have no problem with him) , or whether states should have the right to become theocracies if the people wish, or whether religion should not be in politics directly.

If it's the former, would he mind if the US became an Islamic theocracy, or just religious in general. If it's the second, would he mind if certain states elected to go Islamic vs Christian, since that might be an option coming up. If it's third, why has he voted in the past for less seperation of church and state?

I ask this as an atheist, one who accepts full well that Ron Paul is a Born Again Christian. I understand a lot of you will say that he will not try to force his opinion on me, but his beliefs are that when I die I will burn in hell. There's no real escaping that fact and I accept those are his beliefs.

What I don't understand is how people here are acting like they're surprised that he is an evangelical christian all of a sudden, and how they feel that Ron actually talking to the base he talked to in 1988 is suddenly "pandering." This is his base, folks. You knew all along he was an evangelical christian. Why is everyone acting surprised now?

[unklejman]

The characteristics of Evangelicalism as defined by David Bebbington, in his study of British evangelicalism, are known as the Bebbington Quadrilateral, [1], the four characteristics of evangelicals are :

1. Conversionism - Emphasis on the conversion experience, also called being saved, or new birth or born again after John 3:3. Thus evangelicals often refer to themselves as born-again Christians. This experience is said to be received by "faith alone" and to be given by God as the result of "grace alone".
2. Biblicism - The Protestant canon of the Bible, as God's revelation to humanity, is the primary source of religious authority. Thus, the doctrine of sola scriptura is often emphasized. Bible prophecy, especially as interpreted according to dispensationalism, is often emphasized as well.
3. Activism - Encouragement of evangelism—the act of persuading others of one's beliefs—in organized missionary work or by personal encounters and relationships with others.
4. Crucicentrism - A central focus on Christ's redeeming work on the cross as the only means for salvation and the forgiveness of sins.


All four points are inline with my beliefs.




If this is the crowd you now want to pitch to, then re-read my post above where I explain why this crowd and the typical Ron Paul crowd don't mix well. Ron Paul preaches non-interference and letting people live their lives the way they want. He does not try to persuade others of his beliefs. If he did I think he would lose most of the people on this forum.


I mix very well with the Ron Paul crowd, in-fact I'm part of it! The idea is that it is the responsibility of the church to spread the message of Christ, not the government. I agree with in letting people live their lives the way they want.



I also think that if Ron Paul started saying that people were sinners and the ONLY way to redemption was to focus on Christ's actions on the cross I can guarantee you would lose a lot of the folks you have here.


He probably believes that. He just keeps in on a personal level and not a political level.



Evangelicals have a very narrow focus of acceptability. Huckabee will play well with that crowd because I believe he probably believes all of the four mentioned criteria. Ron Paul however, will not play well with that crowd. If you try to force him into that box, 1. you are lying; and 2. he can't hold a candle to Huckabee.

So why try?


I think you have a very narrow idea of evangelicals. My dad (a sunday school teacher) is voting for RP as well as some people I've talked to at my southern baptist evangelical church, including the youth pastor. In fact the biggest concern with some of the people I talked to at my church was the Iraq war and "being over there so they don't come here" idea.

One other thing, my dad had a problem with Huckabee BECAUSE he was a minister and didn't think some one called to the ministry should be running for president.

[RoyalShock]

I am new to Ron Paul, and am checking him out. One thing that really bothers me is that it appears people think the man's Christianity is not an issue to how he'll run government. In checking his voting record, though, I see issues where he believes that Churches should be allowed to politic from the pulpit. I see a lot of tax relief (which is good), and a lot of defenses of christianity in government (which is not.) Now, I'm trying to figure out if he believes that the US should be a theocracy (since he votes along those lines.. in votes regarding God in GOvernment, the Right seems to have no problem with him) , or whether states should have the right to become theocracies if the people wish, or whether religion should not be in politics directly.

If it's the former, would he mind if the US became an Islamic theocracy, or just religious in general. If it's the second, would he mind if certain states elected to go Islamic vs Christian, since that might be an option coming up. If it's third, why has he voted in the past for less seperation of church and state?

I ask this as an atheist, one who accepts full well that Ron Paul is a Born Again Christian. I understand a lot of you will say that he will not try to force his opinion on me, but his beliefs are that when I die I will burn in hell. There's no real escaping that fact and I accept those are his beliefs.

What I don't understand is how people here are acting like they're surprised that he is an evangelical christian all of a sudden, and how they feel that Ron actually talking to the base he talked to in 1988 is suddenly "pandering." This is his base, folks. You knew all along he was an evangelical christian. Why is everyone acting surprised now?

Since this topic got bumped, I wanted to respond to this.

Allowing politicking from the pulpit just means that church leaders ought to be able to preach areas of their faith that cross into political grounds without fear of government intervention. That is a guarantee of the first amendment and consistent with his constitutional principles.

Paul wants the federal gov't to get out of the lives of EVERY citizen. He's truly for equality. Someone who wants to institute a theocracy would not be in favor of freedom, liberty and smaller government. They are mutually-exclusive concepts.

As an example, he's personally very, very pro-life. He would like to revoke Roe vs. Wade and give the issue back to the states to deal with. He doesn't want to force his personal belief on people, but he does want the federal government to stay out of issues that are better dealt with at more local levels. That is also consistent with a constitutional point of view.

[Redcard]

But the states HAD Roe V Wade to deal with at one time.. and it didn't hold there because of the same reason that the Gay Marriage thing wasn't trusted in just the states.

What is RP going to do that will be different than what occurred with RvW the first time it went through at the state levels and got to the SCOTUS?

It'll get up there again, so long as people are opposed to whatever the current law is.

[JoBurke]

Just stick this video in thier face!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5uk-T46soz8

If you love jesus, stop supporting this regime and wake up!

[Maltheus]

He's RELIGIOUS.... please don't call him a Christian...

Would you please explain this distinction? I seem to have offended people in the past by referring to their beliefs as a religion. Do the "faithful" think that religion is just something the other guys believes? I find this parsing really confusing and I'd like someone to explain it to me.

Or to put it another way, how do I ask someone if they're religious, without having them say no, and then go on an on about their religion as if we're speaking a different language?

[unklejman]

Would you please explain this distinction? I seem to have offended people in the past by referring to their beliefs as a religion. Do the "faithful" think that religion is just something the other guys believes? I find this parsing really confusing and I'd like someone to explain it to me.

Or to put it another way, how do I ask someone if they're religious, without having them say no, and then go on an on about their religion as if we're speaking a different language?

Ask are they a Christian? The only people I could think of that would do that are born again Christians. They believe a religion is just rules you follow trying to get to heaven. Instead they believe that having a relationship with Jesus is how to get to heaven.

[DrNoZone]

Evangelists held strong sway in Iowa...but they won't just about everywhere else.

[Redcard]

Evangelists held strong sway in Iowa...but they won't just about everywhere else.

Yeah. Keep telling yourself that. We Gay Democrats did in 2004 when Bush got out the bigot vote.

[Maltheus]

Are atheists atheists because they don't believe in God, or because they are bitter about Christianity?

Well, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist (who are no different than evangelicals in my book), but I do think I can speak to the mistrust of Christians in this country. And I didn't really understand it until I moved to the town Focus on the Family is headquartered in.

I was raised Catholic, so I have some familiarity with the bible. I've also take a couple comparative religion courses back in my college days. I think I get the gist of Jesus' message. But I have born agains often try to convert me here and they always come across as the most passive-aggressive people I've ever met. They'll preach the message of Jesus openly, but when they talk about anything else, I only ever hear the vile hated come out of their mouths. They also seem to be the biggest war mongers in the country. How could anyone think that Jesus would support a pre-emptive war?? How could they think that Jesus would support the death penalty?? My understanding of his message is that it's what's in your heart that's most important.

I guess for me, so many of my encounters with Christians have been a lesson in hypocrisy. I know there are all sorts out there, including many who have truly internalized the teaching of Christ, but most of them are what I call 'Authoritarians.' They demand obedience to the state and obedience to the church. If you try to pass them, when they're going 10 miles under the speed limit in the passing lane (Jesus fish cars), they speed up to prevent that, get in front of you, and then slam on their breaks to demand obedience from you. Quite frankly, they offend my libertarian sensibilities.

That being said, I am against abortion (for logical reasons) and I have no problem with prayer in school (especially if we get rid of public schools). As long as you don't tread on me and mine, I have no problems with how others choose to live their lives. Unfortunately Christians, in this country, tend to be represented by the loudest and most full of crap among the flock. I kind of wish Paul would mention his faith a little more just to show that other side of faith that we non-religious types rarely get to see.

[loupeznik]

Q: So are we done ignoring the Evangelicals?

A: No.

[Maltheus]

Ask are they a Christian? The only people I could think of that would do that are born again Christians. They believe a religion is just rules you follow trying to get to heaven. Instead they believe that having a relationship with Jesus is how to get to heaven.

I've also had five percenters do that to me. I ask if they're Muslim and they say no, Islam is just a science to them. I'm pretty sure I've had a pentecostal caller say they aren't a religion as well (and I don't think they are technically born-agains). I kind of wish they'd decide on a new term for people who believe in gods, if 'religious' ain't gonna do it no more. You know, a catch-all term so I don't have to go down the list of faiths, one by one.

[politicsNproverbs]

We need to be more focused on the church goers.

It is very simple to win over the religious right ...
[...]
...IF, they ask about either Huckabee ...
- Huckabee has been investigated on ethics commissions many many times
- Huckabee has pardoned criminals who later went on to brake the law again
- That Huckabee is probably trying to do what he thinks is best, but you cant ethically see yourself voting for him.

It could be added to that list that Huckabee is cozying up to the CFR and they to him (not a good "sign" for Christians who appreciate prophecy, and are "awake" to the 'One World Gov't System'):


"Huckabee Names CFR President, Richard Haas, As One of His Chief Policy Advisers" - CNN Video, December 16, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_BucPcJrHI&eurl=http://truthinourtime.blogspot.com/2008/01/council-on-foreign-relations-advises.html (http://www.youtube.com/watchv=S_BucPcJrHI&eurl=http://truthinourtime.blogspot.com/2008/01/council-on-foreign-relations-advises.html)

If they are not familiar with the implications of the CFR, this article is as good as any, and is written by a Christian website: "COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS A MAJOR KEY IN THE DRIVE TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER" http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1191.cfm

Also, quoting from that Christian website article about Huckabee:


To buttress the reality that Mike Huckabee is supportive of the CFR and is now supported by that organization, we need to briefly address the issue that Huckabee has an article in the February, 2008, edition of the Council on Foreign Relations magazine!

NEWS BRIEF: "America's Priorities in the War on Terror: Islamists, Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan", Foreign Affairs, published by the Council on Foreign Relations, February, 2008http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20080101faessay87112/michael-d-huckabee/america-s-priorities-in-the-war-on-terror.html
"Summary: The Bush administration's arrogant bunker mentality has been counterproductive at home and abroad. American foreign policy needs to change its tone and attitude, open up, and reach out. In particular, it should focus on eliminating Islamist terrorists, stabilizing Iraq, containing Iran, and toughening its stance with Pakistan."
"MICHAEL D. HUCKABEE, former Governor of Arkansas, is a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination."

[...]

Again, no one whom the CFR does not support would be allowed to write an article in its flagship magazine, Foreign Affairs. Ignore the public rhetoric which would lead you to believe that Mike Huckabee supports your Christian viewpoint, for the facts are now screaming very loudly that the contrary is true.

[...]

Be sure to click on Baldwin's hot link of Mike Huckabee's speech to the Council on Foreign Relations on September 28, 2007 http://www.cfr.org/publication/14335/, for you will discover for yourself that Huckabee is simply spouting the Establishment rhetoric about Iraq, Iran, and al-Qaeda terrorism...

[...]

... a person does not even get to the point of being able to address the CFR unless he is sold out to their plan -- even if the sellout is strictly kept secret. We must pay attention to what people do and not to just what they say. That failure is the reason so many Christians even today consider Bush a genuine Christian believer and follower.

I know it's a lot of info, but it would be good if anyone ever has opportunity to get into an indepth chat with an interested Christian/Huckabee-supporter, and/or possibly include these few snippets in any printout or flyer.

That info came from this weekend's CuttingEdge.org newsletter but I wouldn't suggest you share the entire article because the author, former Army Intelligence and Christian (Baptist I think), does not vote anymore because due to his own research into the NWO since 1988, he feels all presidential campaigns are rigged. So I wouldn't share all of it, but the Huckabee/CFR portions are "solid gold," imho, and I only provided the source of the info for documentation purposes.

[politicsNproverbs]

...a large part of the christians want more theocratic fascism, and there's no pandering Ron Paul can do to appeal to them. There's a long way from fascism to liberty.

Maybe "going in the back door" might help. Instead of starting with what is wrong about their position, start with what is right, ie, we could ask or show them that what they actually DO want IS liberty and freedom (if they believe their own bibles, that is: Gal. 5:1; John 8:32), even if they don't realize it in a "Ron Paul sense" at first.

The sad thing is, what the "Kingdom Dominionist" crowd has been/is being taught by their wolves-leaders is that the "Kingdom of God" they are trying to "force into existence" via "human measures" ("theocratic fascism") is really none other than the very same counterfeit New World Order/One World Gov't. of the power-elite. But I could bet most, if not all Christians sitting under that erroneous-teaching, don't have a clue of the connection between the two. :o

[constituent]

Um... okay.



Why is it that when I respond honestly I get this moral highground stuff? It's like Christian people cannot open their mouths without someone saying we're trying to make off like we're better. I just want to go on a forum without someone trying to make me out to be a country bumpkin with mush for brains because I believe in my Creator.

If I replied to this thread saying something offensive to Christians I would have gotten a dozen LOLs.

1) and then you pull the ann coulter "you're attacking me personally" c'mon.
you drop a totally lame, collectivist troll of a post talking mad trash about everyone,
attacking some figment of your imagination, rhetorically at that!

i didn't say you were trying to make off like you were better, though i could see how some might take that away from the experience of reading your OP

2) not from me you wouldn't have. this forum would be well served if folks would stop lumping people into these groups that (don't exist in reality) are merely figments of their imagination, and then attacking those people for being part of said groups.

bummin' me out.

[constituent]

Allowing politicking from the pulpit just means that church leaders ought to be able to preach areas of their faith that cross into political grounds without fear of government intervention. That is a guarantee of the first amendment and consistent with his constitutional principles.


+1000


says it all really, thanks royalshock!

[LFOD]

The real question is "Are Evangelicals done ignoring Ron Paul?"

The answer is "no" and will continue to be "no" unless/until Huckabee drops out.

[BeFranklin]

Odd comments since by definition Ron Paul is an evangelical.

I just wrote an article about this issue, and the bias of the media *against* Christians as well.

It relates somewhat to the topic described here. And describes a related issue: 'big religion' versus 'small religion', and
how big religion is often related to big government.

Tolerance is the key to small religion and freedom.

Direct link is http://www.nolanchart.com/article926.html

Digg (above): http://digg.com/arts_culture/Media_Bias_It_isn_t_always_about_Politics

[flufbus]

We ignore evangelicals because we don't mix religion and politics, PERIOD.

[politicsNproverbs]

When you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to no one.

:p Right, try not to be everything to EVERYONE, but try for only ONE person at a time... much less painful that way. ;)


"I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." - 1 Cor. 9:22

Or "convert some" from Muckabee to RP...

[politicsNproverbs]

Although we can reach out to them, EvanJihadis are a bunch of brainwashed folks. They can't be "re-programmed" to the message of peace & liberty.

Oooh, I dunno... there's ALWAYS HOPE, imo. The problem is their lack of awareness and self-education of what is going on in the world and more specifically, in the USA. Education is always the key to de-programming.

[liberty_Forever]

Ignoring the evangelicals is stupid move. They would support Paul if they knew he was a devout Christian and supporter their rights to practice their faith in peace.

[cheese]

great vid

[politicsNproverbs]

The question though is an honest one, and one that hasn't ever been answered for me.

Why is it that when I respond honestly I get this moral highground stuff? It's like Christian people cannot open their mouths without someone saying we're trying to make off like we're better. I just want to go on a forum without someone trying to make me out to be a country bumpkin with mush for brains because I believe in my Creator.

If I replied to this thread saying something offensive to Christians I would have gotten a dozen LOLs.

That, and your first post, ChelC, all true, agree, not just on this forum, but in most all forums across the internet [which I have visited] I find this to be true. Whoa Nellie! Don't talk about Jesus, God, Bible, Christianity, etc., not even between TWO posters on a forum who might WANT to talk about these subjects, because all the God-haters will come rushing in like a flood and start shooting with both barrels, and they can be very mean, hateful, and nasty. And what for? :confused:

It's everywhere.

It's a sign of the times.

"Jesus" is no longer "politically correct."

And it's a real drag, indeed.

But not surprising.

"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?" {rage: or, tumultuously assemble}-(KJV) Psalms 2:1

[DeadtoSin]

As a Christian, I understand that my beliefs affect who I like and who I vote for. How can you say they don't mix?

As an atheist, if you do not believe in evolution, and a man comes up there and tells you how stupid evolution is and how creationism is the only true thing, that would be an obstacle for voting. So how can you say that "religion" doesn't affect your politics? Ugh.

As a Christian, if I don't vote for what I believe is true, then what use is my belief and what use is my vote?

[politicsNproverbs]

I'm pretty sure I've had a pentecostal caller say they aren't a religion as well (and I don't think they are technically born-agains). I kind of wish they'd decide on a new term for people who believe in gods, if 'religious' ain't gonna do it no more. You know, a catch-all term so I don't have to go down the list of faiths, one by one.

:D They are just being a royal pain, it's socially-engineered OVER-sensitivity-training by their teachers and leaders and pastors heaped onto the flock. The people you talked to are making too much of the word "religious" or "religion." They should be more gracious and simply say, "Yes, of course, I know what you mean, I am a Christian," or a Muslim, or whatever, instead of making a major production out of it.

Because in the "old days," "religion" simply meant you believed in God, Jesus, the Bible, Christianity, or whatever. It's the "trend" of the last 30 years or so to start bashing the word "religion" as if the word itself was demonized, thanks to the likes of Paul Crouch, Sr. (TBN) who is famous for saying, "I hate religion!" and he taught his 2 sons to act the same way. It's petty and shallow, since any reasonable person knows what you would mean if you used that word, ie, that you are not being disrespectful or making distinctions, etc.

It's all ridiculous, imo, the attitude that take over it.

-----------

With all that said, lol, I no longer am part of a "heirarchal religion" (been through 2 of those already, finally learning, lol, ie, from the top down, human leaders down to the peons, with rules and regs that supposedly must be followed in order to "secure one's salvation") but simply am a Christian, period, with Jesus as my direct leader. ;) But if you asked me about "religion," I would know what you meant, of course. No biggie.

OK, off my rant now.:cool:

[Triton]

My husband is a pastor in a Reformed Presbyterian church. Just for the record, in our denomination, most church parking lots look like a Ron Paul rally due to all of the bumperstickers and magnets.

Don't count out the evangelical vote....

I read somewhere that Judge Roy Moore just endorsed Ron Paul. Is this true? If so, it could have a major impact on the evangelical vote.

Those of us who take time to read, think and actually vote see right through Mike Huckabee. His constant pandering to the Christian vote disgusts me.We're PCA, and my congregation, sadly and surprisingly, is a vast sea of Huckabee supporters. What we need is a good Adult Sunday school series on Israel (the Elect) versus "israel" (the political nation masquerading as the Elect).

[politicsNproverbs]

To go along w/my prior post re: Huckabee and the CFR, I wanted to include this clip from one of my favorite websites, which said entire website would be extremely informative for any Christian-Right'ers who may show up here to learn about Ron Paul...


...the Council for National Policy [is] the policy-making body and funding conduit for the Religious Right. The 500+ member CNP is not a Christian organization but is comprised of Freemasons, CFR members, UN representatives and affiliates, Knights of Malta, Moonies, former-Nazis, neo-Nazis, a former Grand Kilgrapp of the Ku Klux Klan, Mormons, Roman Catholics, Opus Dei members, Scientologists, Church Universal & Triumphant, and even a Rothschild. In short, numerous occult, subversive and criminal organizations are represented in the CNP... and these cults and secret societies collaborate to establish the agenda of the Christian Right. For more information, see: http://watch-unto-prayer.org/cnp.html

[Mark]

:D They are just being a royal pain, it's socially-engineered OVER-sensitivity-training by their teachers and leaders and pastors heaped onto the flock. The people you talked to are making too much of the word "religious" or "religion." They should be more gracious and simply say, "Yes, of course, I know what you mean, I am a Christian," or a Muslim, or whatever, instead of making a major production out of it.

Because in the "old days," "religion" simply meant you believed in God, Jesus, the Bible, Christianity, or whatever. It's the "trend" of the last 30 years or so to start bashing the word "religion" as if the word itself was demonized, thanks to the likes of Paul Crouch, Sr. (TBN) who is famous for saying, "I hate religion!" and he taught his 2 sons to act the same way. It's petty and shallow, since any reasonable person knows what you would mean if you used that word, ie, that you are not being disrespectful or making distinctions, etc.

It's all ridiculous, imo, the attitude that take over it.

-----------

With all that said, lol, I no longer am part of a "heirarchal religion" (been through 2 of those already, finally learning, lol, ie, from the top down, human leaders down to the peons, with rules and regs that supposedly must be followed in order to "secure one's salvation") but simply am a Christian, period, with Jesus as my direct leader. ;) But if you asked me about "religion," I would know what you meant, of course. No biggie.

OK, off my rant now.:cool:

In-fighting is one of the reasons I started my own Christian Denomination - it's quite non-productive and ridiculous -

it divides when Christians should be One

[Triton]

In-fighting is one of the reasons I started my own Christian Denomination - it's quite non-productive and ridiculous -

it divides when Christians should be OneSo, let me get this straight: you were sick of divisiveness, so you declined to work within the bounds of your (or some other) denomination and started your own? Makes sense to me!:confused:

[rs3515]

Feel free to use these links to share with others. Also we have a multi-email campaign that we delivered to 150,000 Conservative Christians throughout November and December. Contact me if there are any questions.

http://www.rp-supporters.com/support.html
http://www.rp-supporters.com/compare.html

[JohnM]

My 2c worth on this:

1) Dr Paul is not just a Christian - he describes himself as an evangelical Christian.

2) Paul and Huckabee are the really the only two Republicans who have good evangelical Christian credentials.

a. Thomson admits he doesn't go to church much.
b. Romney is a member of a non-evangelical denomination.
c. McCain is a self-confessed adulterer and a man who uses language which most evangelicals would see as not acceptable.
d. Giuliani makes no claims at all to be an evangelical Christian.

3. Ron Paul is actually not doing too badly at getting the evangelical Christian vote. Polling in Iowa showed that while Giuliani, Thomson, McCain, and Romney did significantly better among non-evangelicals than evangelicals, Ron Paul did about equally well among both groups.

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/#val=IAREP