Grassroots/Campaign Coalition - (Advisory Board Dead)

[ghemminger]

Ok...mann did I get your guys input. Actually some of you have opened my eyes to the idea and power of decentalization and freedom at the local level. I am sorry for getting this idea off in the wrong direction.

I've killed the former threads - and I'm offering the entire idea up to you guys.

I thinking this idea is dead - if you would like to resurrect it - the slate is blank - and I'm looking for your input....if you don't want it - I understand....

[UtahApocalypse]

George, I am glad to see you have gotten past the controversy and are still here. Many times you have been the inside man giving us up to the minute information on the campaign in L.A. Trust me you will be much more effective still untethered to any committee.

[OptionsTrader]

Ok...mann did I get your guys input. Actually some of you have opened my eyes to the idea and power of decentalization and freedom at the local level. I am sorry for getting this idea off in the wrong direction.

I've killed the former threads - and I'm offering the entire idea up to you guys.

I thinking this idea is dead - if you would like to resurrect it - the slate is blank - and I'm looking for your input....if you don't want it - I understand....

I do not.

[ghemminger]

I do not.


lol...options - I love ya mann - I think we all know where you stand - I luved your poll.. ;)

[Chester Copperpot]

Ok...mann did I get your guys input. Actually some of you have opened my eyes to the idea and power of decentalization and freedom at the local level. I am sorry for getting this idea off in the wrong direction.

I've killed the former threads - and I'm offering the entire idea up to you guys.

I thinking this idea is dead - if you would like to resurrect it - the slate is blank - and I'm looking for your input....if you don't want it - I understand....

Hey does this mean you have to eat your OTHER shoe now ??

[OptionsTrader]

http://i12.tinypic.com/71xr9z5.jpg (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=71220)

[constituent]

uhhhh.... did i miss something?

i still think it's a great idea. i hope more folks have conference calls... and then we can all discuss the differences w/in and between the different groups w/ their concerns...

i (others too, btw) can keep a weekly update/summary of the developments and discussions at ronpaulnation.com

you can limit your discussion to whomever you may choose, and others can do the same...

i think it's a beautiful idea george and you should stick with it, man!

[Spirit of '76]

That poll is telling, but to be fair it's asking the wrong question.

The unfortunate name chosen by the people trying to get this thing started, coupled with the less-than-stellar yet overly-bombastic way they introduced the idea, led many people to believe that they were trying to form some type of committee to direct the grassroots efforts.

My understanding, though, is that they were trying to form a committee that could carry the concerns of the grassroots to the official campaign and sort of act as spokesmen on our behalf. That in itself seems like a feasible idea to me, and in fact it has been discussed elsewhere by others of us who are frustrated with the apparent disconnect between the PCC and the grassroots.

My advice to George and the others who were brainstorming this idea and unwisely sprang it on everyone in a most unfortunate way and before they really had anything to show us is to go back to the drawing board.

Come up with an effective mission statement and a concrete plan of action. Get some respected grassroots organizers and activists on board. Create a website that makes everything apparent -- who you are, what you're doing, why you're doing it, how it helps everyone, and how everyone can help you achieve your goals.

Then come back and show everyone what you've got. And for God's sake, change the name of the thing...

[ghemminger]

That poll is telling, but to be fair it's asking the wrong question.

The unfortunate name chosen by the people trying to get this thing started, coupled with the less-than-stellar yet overly-bombastic way they introduced the idea, led many people to believe that they were trying to form some type of committee to direct the grassroots efforts.

My understanding, though, is that they were trying to form a committee that could carry the concerns of the grassroots to the official campaign and sort of act as spokesmen on our behalf. That in itself seems like a feasible idea to me, and in fact it has been discussed elsewhere by others of us who are frustrated with the apparent disconnect between the PCC and the grassroots.

My advice to George and the others who were brainstorming this idea and unwisely sprang it on everyone in a most unfortunate way and before they really had anything to show us is to go back to the drawing board.

Come up with an effective mission statement and a concrete plan of action. Get some respected grassroots organizers and activists on board. Create a website that makes everything apparent -- who you are, what you're doing, why you're doing it, how it helps everyone, and how everyone can help you achieve your goals.

Then come back and show everyone what you've got. And for God's sake, change the name of the thing...


Thanks spirit - I will send out another conference call request - and see if i can resurrect some some support let me know if there is anyone you would like to be in on the call... I mean we are all communitcating with HQ individually and maybe we should leave it that way - It was my thought - If things don't go well in Iowa and NH - have a sit down in DC with 8-10 Grassroots People and HQ

[dshields]

Ok...mann did I get your guys input. Actually some of you have opened my eyes to the idea and power of decentalization and freedom at the local level. I am sorry for getting this idea off in the wrong direction.

I've killed the former threads - and I'm offering the entire idea up to you guys.

I thinking this idea is dead - if you would like to resurrect it - the slate is blank - and I'm looking for your input....if you don't want it - I understand....

I think what we could benefit from would be a way to understand where the campaign is at, likewise for them to understand where things are going from a grassroots perspective.

The thing I want to stress is this needs to be a transparent open form of communications so people can independently take the information and use it to their advantage. Maybe what we really need is for the Ron Paul Campaign to provide a liaison that could post in a designated forum on behalf of the RP campaign.

You can never have enough information and if I understand you correctly, this is what you are trying to accomplish.

Dave

[walt]

Ok...mann did I get your guys input. Actually some of you have opened my eyes to the idea and power of decentalization and freedom at the local level. I am sorry for getting this idea off in the wrong direction.

I've killed the former threads - and I'm offering the entire idea up to you guys.

I thinking this idea is dead - if you would like to resurrect it - the slate is blank - and I'm looking for your input....if you don't want it - I understand....

I think increased communication from HQ to us so we can coordinate better is still a valid concept and was the main point covered in our phone conversation. :)

Let's focus there.

[ghemminger]

I think what we could benefit from would be a way to understand where the campaign is at, likewise for them to understand where things are going from a grassroots perspective.

The thing I want to stress is this needs to be a transparent open form of communications so people can independently take the information and use it to their advantage. Maybe what we really need is for the Ron Paul Campaign to provide a liaison that could post in a designated forum on behalf of the RP campaign.

You can never have enough information and if I understand you correctly, this is what you are trying to accomplish.

Dave

They aren't willing to do this

[ghemminger]

I think increased communication from HQ to us so we can coordinate better is still a valid concept and was the main point covered in our phone conversation. :)

Let's focus there.

ok

[dshields]

They aren't willing to do this

My response to that is simple, we should continue on our own.

Remember, we are not hitched to the Ron Paul campaign, they are hitched to us. The thing is grassroots has been EXTREMELY successful, more than it has ever been I would say arguably in the history of politics. If they are not interested in making the initiative to better communicate with the grassroots then we shouldn't push the issue.

I think Ron Paul said it best when he said he was the lucky one chosen to lead this Revolution.

With that being said, it may be impractical to create the sort of communications you are trying to establish with the campaign.

Thoughts?

Dave

[LibertyEagle]

I think Spirit of 76 has the right idea.

I think this effort should go forward.


Note: No one is trying to change anyone from operating independently.

[Spirit of '76]

Thanks spirit - I will send out another conference call request - and see if i can resurrect some some support let me know if there is anyone you would like to be in on the call... I mean we are all communitcating with HQ individually and maybe we should leave it that way - It was my thought - If things don't go well in Iowa and NH - have a sit down in DC with 8-10 Grassroots People and HQ

I see you've involved Dean in the process. That's good. I'd also recommend you invite L. Lepard and Aravoth, as they've both done a lot for the grassroots and are both well-respected. Josh and Bryan as admins of this forum would be good choices as well. BradleyinDC knows a lot of the campaign staff very well and has a good handle on the sentiments of the grassroots.

There are lots of great folks out there who would make good spokesmen, but those are some who spring immediately to mind.

[ghemminger]

My response to that is simple, we should continue on our own.

Remember, we are not hitched to the Ron Paul campaign, they are hitched to us. The thing is grassroots has been EXTREMELY successful, more than it has ever been I would say arguably in the history of politics. If they are not interested in making the initiative to better communicate with the grassroots then we shouldn't push the issue.

I think Ron Paul said it best when he said he was the lucky one chosen to lead this Revolution.

With that being said, it may be impractical to create the sort of communications you are trying to establish with the campaign.

Thoughts?

Dave

You might be right - Creating the communication stems from a simple fact in my mind - grassroots is raising the money - are all of you happy in which HQ is spending it - One strong voice might have a larger impact then many....

[evandi]

This is amazing. How much opposition does it take to convince you that your idea isn't welcome?

One can only imagine how responsive you would be to other Ron Paul supporters when your ideas conflict with theirs but only you were in control.

[ghemminger]

I see you've involved Dean in the process. That's good. I'd also recommend you invite L. Lepard and Aravoth, as they've both done a lot for the grassroots and are both well-respected. Josh and Bryan as admins of this forum would be good choices as well. BradleyinDC knows a lot of the campaign staff very well and has a good handle on the sentiments of the grassroots.

There are lots of great folks out there who would make good spokesmen, but those are some who spring immediately to mind.


Email out to LLepard, Josh and Bryan - figured Aravoth too busy...

[evandi]

Email out to LLepard, Josh and Bryan - figured Aravoth too busy...

Stop trying to annoint leaders. Now you are trying to get a few people you see as popular to lead your coup?

lol

[Ron Paul Fan]

I do not.

I agree. And it appears that 80% of the population also doesn't want a bureacracy bigger and more inefficient than FEMA.

[ghemminger]

I agree. And it appears that 80% of the population also doesn't want a bureacracy bigger and more inefficient than FEMA.

Evandi and Ron Paul Fan - Thanks for the input - We got your opinion.

[libertythor]

As long as it doesn't give orders to grassroots people and just passes information, I see no problem with this. The former is impossible anyhow.

I say just form the comittee, and some will support it and others won't.



Edit: PS - No money should be involved with this organization, since it is pure information channeling.

[evandi]

Evandi and Ron Paul Fan - Thanks for the input - We got your opinion.

We have your opinions to. I did not ask for your opinion, nor do I need your permission to speak.

I am not even trying to convince you. You are not interested in what anybody thinks.

Think about the other few hundred people browsing and any guests who might show up. These are my audience.

[kern802]

//

[libertythor]

Last night, arrogant answers from one of the proponents and one of the opponents really got the hornet's nest stirred.

GHemminger has presented this idea in a mature and level-headed way. (Compared to others that were oozing self-importance and giving sharp grey-troll answers.)

People, let them form the comittee, and it will compete in the marketplace of ideas that exists in this forum. Nobody is capable of forcing the grassroots to do anything.

I predict that a third of RPF will support and use such information channeled by this group.

All this means is another grassroots organization.





We have your opinions to. I did not ask for your opinion, nor do I need your permission to speak.

I am not even trying to convince you. You are not interested in what anybody thinks.

Think about the other few hundred people browsing and any guests who might show up. These are my audience.

[Ron Paul Fan]

Evandi and Ron Paul Fan - Thanks for the input - We got your opinion.

I don't think that you have. I think that it's a terrible idea. From what I read, your first meeting accomplished NOTHING! All you said was, the solution is that Ron Paul needs to hire a PR firm. No plans on how to implement it, no plans on how to get HQ to do it. Do you expect to take over HQ and for them to listen to everything that you say? It doesn't make any sense! Someone can post on here that the campaign should hire a PR firm and people will email them about it. How is that any different? 80% of the American people are against this.

This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for SELF GOVERNMENT or whether we ABANDON the Ron Paul REVOLUTION and confess that a little intellectual ELITE in a far distant conference call can plan our campaign for us better than we can plan it ourselves. You and I are always told that we must choose between a left or right. Well, I would confess that there is no left or right. There's only an up or down. UP to man's old aged dream, the ultimate in INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM consistent with law and order or DOWN to the antheap of TOTALITARIANISM. And regardless of their sincerity or humanitarian motives, anyone who would trade our FREEDOM for security is embarked on this downward course. We can preserve for our children, this the last best hope of man on earth. Or we can sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness.

[Spirit of '76]

We have your opinions to. I did not ask for your opinion, nor do I need your permission to speak.

I am not even trying to convince you. You are not interested in what anybody thinks.

Think about the other few hundred people browsing and any guests who might show up. These are my audience.

Just for the sake of clarity, can you please spell out your specific objections to having a group of respected grassroots activists act as conduit to channel the concerns of the grassroots in general to the PCC staff, so that the PCC has a better idea of what our concerns and criticisms are?

Thanks.

[rfbz]

why does it take an advisory board to relay a message from the campaign? More communication would be better but "advisory board" implies something a lot more than that, and I don't see why it's necessary.

[libertythor]

George, the grassroots would never trust any committee because they understand that top-down organizations are very easily infiltrated by the opposition. It's just that simple.

They won't have any rank over any other grassroots individual or group. Lets just calm down.

There is no possible way to centralize grassroots to begin with, but there might be helpful information obtained by such an organization.

[evandi]

Just for the sake of clarity, can you please spell out your specific objections to having a group of respected grassroots activists act as conduit to channel the concerns of the grassroots in general to the PCC staff, so that the PCC has a better idea of what our concerns and criticisms are?

Thanks.

I thought that the fake grassroots organization aka PCC already had my opinion, Thanks

[jake]

you are free to organize a group to come up with suggestions for the wider grassroots campaign - and the grassroots are free to either reject or accept your advice :)

[Craig_R]

If you guys want to get together and bitch to the campaign be my guest. If you have some info from HQ shout it out. No need for some formal board or commite.

just do it.

[evandi]

Just for the sake of clarity, can you please spell out your specific objections to having a group of respected grassroots activists act as conduit to channel the concerns of the grassroots in general to the PCC staff, so that the PCC has a better idea of what our concerns and criticisms are?

Thanks.

My most recently felt objection would be the existance of the phrase "can you please spell out your specific objections to having a group of respected grassroots activists act as conduit to channel the concerns of the grassroots in general to the PCC staff, so that the PCC has a better idea of what our concerns and criticisms are?"

How about a hefty disclaimer saying "the ideas, opinions and goals of the PCC do not necessarily reflect the ideas, opinions and goals of any Ron Paul supporter not wallowing in our unapropriate and unrepresentative bureacracy."

[evandi]

Just for the sake of clarity, can you please spell out your specific objections to having a group of respected grassroots activists act as conduit to channel the concerns of the grassroots in general to the PCC staff, so that the PCC has a better idea of what our concerns and criticisms are?

Thanks.

In addition, I do not respect you or anyone else involved in the process. I do not even respect anyone on this board in general. Overall I don't even know anyone on this board.

But anyway, trying to get avaroth into it when his claim to fame is making good videos sounds very much like something one would do when they are trying to appoint puppets.
Averoth made some awesome videos. That doesn't mean he is good at anything else, but you just want to use him for his popularity.

Lleppards claim to fame is that he spent a lot of money. That is great, but it doesn't make him necessarily my freakin leader or "adviser".

I think there are just a few people on this board who love bureacracy. I'm not sure thats Ron Paul's kind of thing. It certainly isn't mine.

And I just love how this thing has been going on for so long yet very few people want it. That shows that you are not interested in representing the grassroots at all.

[ghemminger]

I don't think that you have. I think that it's a terrible idea. From what I read, your first meeting accomplished NOTHING! All you said was, the solution is that Ron Paul needs to hire a PR firm. No plans on how to implement it, no plans on how to get HQ to do it. Do you expect to take over HQ and for them to listen to everything that you say? It doesn't make any sense! Someone can post on here that the campaign should hire a PR firm and people will email them about it. How is that any different? 80% of the American people are against this.

This is the issue of this election: Whether we believe in our capacity for SELF GOVERNMENT or whether we ABANDON the Ron Paul REVOLUTION and confess that a little intellectual ELITE in a far distant conference call can plan our campaign for us better than we can plan it ourselves. You and I are always told that we must choose between a left or right. Well, I would confess that there is no left or right. There's only an up or down. UP to man's old aged dream, the ultimate in INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM consistent with law and order or DOWN to the antheap of TOTALITARIANISM. And regardless of their sincerity or humanitarian motives, anyone who would trade our FREEDOM for security is embarked on this downward course. We can preserve for our children, this the last best hope of man on earth. Or we can sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness.


Hey Ron Paul Fan - Not sure if I'm grasping your thoughts totally - but I appreciate you trying to explain in a dignified manner. I just didn't think all your ideals are comming into play with the forming of this coalition to influence HQ...

[ghemminger]

In addition, I do not respect you or anyone else involved in the process. I do not even respect anyone on this board in general. Overall I don't even know anyone on this board.

But anyway, trying to get avaroth into it when his claim to fame is making good videos sounds very much like something one would do when they are trying to appoint puppets.
Averoth made some awesome videos. That doesn't mean he is good at anything else, but you just want to use him for his popularity.

Lleppards claim to fame is that he spent a lot of money. That is great, but it doesn't make him necessarily my freakin leader or "adviser".

I think there are just a few people on this board who love bureacracy. I'm not sure thats Ron Paul's kind of thing. It certainly isn't mine.

And I just love how this thing has been going on for so long yet very few people want it. That shows that you are not interested in representing the grassroots at all.


Evandi - I'm calling you out mann - your hate evryone attidude is exposing u for what u are - there is no need to get engage in attacks...take a deep breat and just talk to me....

[evandi]

Evandi - I'm calling you out mann - your hate evryone attidude is exposing u for what u are - there is no need to get engage in attacks...take a deep breat and just talk to me....

I'm not sure what that makes me. I think it is important to distinguish the way you react to someone you completely oppose from the way you would act when disagreeing about your favorite flavor of soda, or what the best day to give money to someone is.

I'm passionate about what I'm passionate about so that you'll know degree, and not just kind.

I don't know anyone here so theres no way I would "respect" someone here. I have valid reason to disrespect those involved in this thing you love so dearly.

[ghemminger]

I'm not sure what that makes me. I think it is important to distinguish the way you react to someone you completely oppose from the way you would act when disagreeing about your favorite flavor of soda, or what the best day to give money to someone is.

I'm passionate about what I'm passionate about so that you'll know degree, and not just kind.

I don't know anyone here so theres no way I would "respect" someone here. I have valid reason to disrespect those involved in this thing you love so dearly.

Thanks mann - I don't love anything dearly - and I am listening...and what you are saying about decentralization might be the honest to god way to proceed....

So nothing is set in stone and we are def. not trying to hijack what you think...thanks mann

[evandi]

Thanks mann - I don't love anything dearly - and I am listening...and what you are saying about decentralization might be the honest to god way to proceed....

So nothing is set in stone and we are def. not trying to hijack what you think...thanks mann

Ha, well your actions and your words have no similarity. All of the same arguments I'm giving have been given before.

You start yet another thread after being told the obvious time and time again.

I think you'll only quit if you think there is no hope of it working because if I had to vote on who, if anyone, was a mole you would be the second one on the list, after Ron LOL.

But since we are a free and wonderful grassroots sensation, as opposed to what you envision, no one has to worry about you or people like you, other then to oppose their ideas whenever they come up.

[stevedasbach]

Here is my 2-cents worth:

See if the campaign would be open to a grassroots ombudsman. Someone who could regularly meet with a campaign official for a limited amount of time (1/2 - 1 hour per week), ask questions and get information to share with grassroots to try to address concerns. That person could post brief single topic posts here, plus a more comprehensive article for the web.

Examples of questions might be: how much advertising has been purchased? What kind? Where is it running? What's happening on the ground in New Hampshire? Where do we stand with ballot access?

In short -- try to open up a communications channel between the campaign and the grassroots that requires very little effort by the overworked campaign staff.

[ghemminger]

Here is my 2-cents worth:

See if the campaign would be open to a grassroots ombudsman. Someone who could regularly meet with a campaign official for a limited amount of time (1/2 - 1 hour per week), ask questions and get information to share with grassroots to try to address concerns. That person could post brief single topic posts here, plus a more comprehensive article for the web.

Examples of questions might be: how much advertising has been purchased? What kind? Where is it running? What's happening on the ground in New Hampshire? Where do we stand with ballot access?

In short -- try to open up a communications channel between the campaign and the grassroots that requires very little effort by the overworked campaign staff.


Nice thought - Thanks!

[parocks]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=71308


What do you think about this idea, which is a modification of the Grassroots Advisory Board? Called Grassroots / HQ Information Liasons?

[quantized]

In addition, I do not respect you or anyone else involved in the process. I do not even respect anyone on this board in general. Overall I don't even know anyone on this board.

But anyway, trying to get avaroth into it when his claim to fame is making good videos sounds very much like something one would do when they are trying to appoint puppets.
Averoth made some awesome videos. That doesn't mean he is good at anything else, but you just want to use him for his popularity.

Lleppards claim to fame is that he spent a lot of money. That is great, but it doesn't make him necessarily my freakin leader or "adviser".

I think there are just a few people on this board who love bureacracy. I'm not sure thats Ron Paul's kind of thing. It certainly isn't mine.

And I just love how this thing has been going on for so long yet very few people want it. That shows that you are not interested in representing the grassroots at all.

A classic post of "tearing an idea down simply for the sake of tearing it down".

It is supremely ironic that some would spend time and effort tearing an idea down; while others that are talented and more passionate about the movement are spending the time building up new ideas, projects and movement. Regardless of how you do not respect those people you had listed, they had contributed to the movement in significant way and for this deserve at least some respect and gratitude.

[stevedasbach]

Nice thought - Thanks!

FYI: I live about 10-15 minute from HQ, so if there is anything I can do to help (that is supportive of the campaign), let me know.

[ghemminger]

A classic post of "tearing an idea down simply for the sake of tearing it down".

It is supremely ironic that some would spend time and effort tearing an idea down; while others that are talented and more passionate about the movement are spending the time building up new ideas, projects and movement. Regardless of how you do not respect those people you had listed, they had contributed to the movement in significant way and for this deserve at least some respect and gratitude.


Thanks quantized - I wouldn't mind so much if ... they suggested something in it's place...

[evandi]

A classic post of "tearing an idea down simply for the sake of tearing it down".

It is supremely ironic that some would spend time and effort tearing an idea down; while others that are talented and more passionate about the movement are spending the time building up new ideas, projects and movement. Regardless of how you do not respect those people you had listed, they had contributed to the movement in significant way and for this deserve at least some respect and gratitude.

That sounds like how people talk about the successful politicians and presidents who have got the most done. But, Doctor No says that anyone who is saying no to something is saying yes to its opposite.

I advocate freedom.

Ronald Reagon said something like this: It is not that the liberals don't know anything, its that they know so much that isnt so.

[ghemminger]

That sounds like how people talk about the successful politicians and presidents who have got the most done. But, Doctor No says that anyone who is saying no to something is saying yes to its opposite.

I advocate freedom.

Ronald Reagon said something like this: It is not that the liberals don't know anything, its that they know so much that isnt so.

So Mr. Evandi - unstead of railing into every RP supporter what do you propose?

[evandi]

So Mr. Evandi - unstead of railing into every RP supporter what do you propose?

I propose the opposite of what you are proposing. Duh. And I don't rail into every person who calls themselves a supporter.

I railed into an evolution guy because he tries to turn science into dogma.

I'm railing against you because I don't even think you are a supporter since, for one thing, you're trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I only post when I'm passionate about something because I'm not just trying to have postcount=postcount+1, and other then helping Ron Paul I wouldn't be much predisposed to post about anything.

[Spirit of '76]

I thought that the fake grassroots organization aka PCC already had my opinion, Thanks


How about a hefty disclaimer saying "the ideas, opinions and goals of the PCC do not necessarily reflect the ideas, opinions and goals of any Ron Paul supporter not wallowing in our unapropriate and unrepresentative bureacracy."


How can you even criticize this idea when you don't even know what "the PCC" is, much less appear to have any grasp of what George's idea proposes? :rolleyes:

For your edification, "the PCC" refers to the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee, aka. "the campaign".

And since you seem to have a great deal of difficulty with reading comprehension, I'll spell it out for you one more time:

What has been proposed here is that a committee made up of people who have done a lot for the grassroots, have their fingers on the pulse of grassroots, and are known by people at the PCC (and even Ron Paul himself) carry the concerns of the grassrooots to the PCC in an attempt to give them more weight and influence the PCC to act more effectively in coordination with the grassroots.

So in other words, this is a way for the grassroots to try to tell the PCC what we think they should do. Nobody wants to tell you what to do. Hell, you seem to have already mastered the art of politics (even though you don't even know what a fucking PCC is). :rolleyes:



In addition, I do not respect you or anyone else involved in the process. I do not even respect anyone on this board in general. Overall I don't even know anyone on this board.

That's a winning attitude. :rolleyes:

For your information, my only involvement in this whole affair has been making a few posts with my thoughts that George and whoever else is working this idea can either accept or reject. If they want further help or advice from me, I'll happily give it, but that's up to them.

I'd just be happy to see something like this work out, since a number of us who are deeply involved in grassroots activism for this campaign (at the level of recruiting delegates, organizing poll workers, organizing mass media efforts, etc.) have already discussed similar ideas.

You keep doing what you're doing. I urge these guys to continue on with what they're doing and let us know when they've fleshed the idea out a little more.

There's no need for you to act all petulant and throw little temper tantrums when you obviously don't even understand what the grown-ups are talking about here.

[evandi]

How can you even criticize this idea when you don't even know what "the PCC" is, much less appear to have any grasp of what George's idea proposes? :rolleyes:

For your edification, "the PCC" refers to the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee, aka. "the campaign".

And since you seem to have a great deal of difficulty with reading comprehension, I'll spell it out for you one more time:

What has been proposed here is that a committee made up of people who have done a lot for the grassroots, have the fingers on the pulse of grassroots, and are known by people at the PCC (and even Ron Paul himself) carry the concerns of the grassrooots to the PCC in an attempt to give them more weight and influence the PCC to act more effectively in coordination with the grassroots.

Nobody wants to tell you what to do. Hell, you seem to have already mastered the art of politics (even though you don't even know what a fucking PCC is). :rolleyes:




That's a winning attitude. :rolleyes:

For your information, my only involvement in this whole affair has been making a few posts with my thoughts that George and whoever else is working this idea can either accept or reject. If they want further help or advice from me, I'll happily give it, but that's up to them.

I'd just be happy to see something like this work out, since a number of us who are deeply involved in grassroots activism for this campaign (at the level of recruiting delegates, organizing poll workers, organizing mass media efforts, etc.) have already discussed similar ideas.

You keep doing what you're doing. I urge these guys to continue on with what they're doing and let us know when they've fleshed the idea out a little more.

There's no need for you to act all petulant and throw little temper tantrums when you obviously don't even understand what the grown-ups are talking about here.

We are not involved in the art of politics. Most politicians spend their time trying to get theirselves elected and of course so do the other people they hire.

This is different. This isn't normal politics. What makes you or someone else an expert on politics is the same thing that creates politicians.

[evandi]

And also none of you who say thanks dishonestly and act nice constantly are unable to understand the fact that people who oppose an idea but aren't really open up to any kind of change react better to a harsh responce. The only way to change some peoples minds is to either lie to them or show them as what they really are.

[Spirit of '76]

Here is my 2-cents worth:

See if the campaign would be open to a grassroots ombudsman. Someone who could regularly meet with a campaign official for a limited amount of time (1/2 - 1 hour per week), ask questions and get information to share with grassroots to try to address concerns. That person could post brief single topic posts here, plus a more comprehensive article for the web.


Excellent idea, Steve! That's the kind of thinking we need.http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/icons/icon14.gif

[Spirit of '76]

EDIT: Arguing with that idiot is pointless. One more for the ignore list...

[evandi]

Most of the congressman, or more probably all but one, on capital hill are chameleons anyway.

The whole "act nice to everyone like a politician" is related to the fact that none of the politicians on capital hill but paul really seem to care about what they "believe".

They are all really nice about everything because they are not even in conflict.

None of us here are about getting someone elected. We are about getting Ron Paul elected. That means no comprimise, no logrolling, no "politics".

[libertythor]

Here is my 2-cents worth:

See if the campaign would be open to a grassroots ombudsman. Someone who could regularly meet with a campaign official for a limited amount of time (1/2 - 1 hour per week), ask questions and get information to share with grassroots to try to address concerns. That person could post brief single topic posts here, plus a more comprehensive article for the web.

Examples of questions might be: how much advertising has been purchased? What kind? Where is it running? What's happening on the ground in New Hampshire? Where do we stand with ballot access?

In short -- try to open up a communications channel between the campaign and the grassroots that requires very little effort by the overworked campaign staff.

+1 for an ombudsman!!!

[tamor]

I see nothing wrong with sharing information between HQ and Grassroots through a liaison (communication for establishing and maintaining mutual understanding) -- in fact, I think it is a necessity to know the correct information -- remember the FOX Debate/Forum fiasco?

[evandi]

+1 for an ombudsman!!!

The PCC, (ok i'm dumb) has internet access.

[libertythor]

The PCC, (ok i'm dumb) has internet access.

Well that means that somebody can be dedicated to updating daily a page on substantial campaign news for ronpaul2008.com. That is a cheap and non-bureaucratic option.

I repeat, an ombudsman. :)

[Spirit of '76]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=71308


What do you think about this idea, which is a modification of the Grassroots Advisory Board? Called Grassroots / HQ Information Liasons?


I think that's pretty much what the whole "Advisory Board" thing was all about, anyway.

The "Grassroots Advisory Board" was an extremely poor choice of name and the way that Dave guy made the announcement without clarifying what the proposal was or having anything concrete to show was a mistake.

It lead some people to have a kneejerk reaction, and start railing on about how nobody's gonna tell me what to do, goddammit! when they apparently never even bothered to find out what was actually being suggested.

I think most people are beginning to understand what's being suggested here, and many more just don't care, but of course there will always be a few who are either so slow on the uptake that they just can't grasp what's going on or are just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

In other words, people trying to affect real change and do something positive will always have to deal with idiots and trolls. I say we take the good ideas and run with them and just ignore the nay-sayers.

[evandi]

Well that means that somebody can be dedicated to updating daily a page on substantial campaign news for ronpaul2008.com. That is a cheap and non-bureaucratic option.

I repeat, an ombudsman. :)

Well, my point is that they peruse this board.

Since we are a grassroots "organization" the information is hard to filter. And anyway any one of us could do that and fall short of all the important information.

So I would think the best way to get a handle on the board if they felt they needed to is just for them to read and see what there is out there.

Imagine what if someone said that the veterens day money bomb was the official money bomb and headquarters expected more money on that day then on the 5th?

Its hard to tell whats going on, but if the headquarters feels the need then they could just read. My final -0.2 cents.

[quantized]

Well, my point is that they peruse this board.

Since we are a grassroots "organization" the information is hard to filter. And anyway any one of us could do that and fall short of all the important information.

So I would think the best way to get a handle on the board if they felt they needed to is just for them to read and see what there is out there.

Imagine what if someone said that the veterens day money bomb was the official money bomb and headquarters expected more money on that day then on the 5th?

Its hard to tell whats going on, but if the headquarters feels the need then they could just read. My final -0.2 cents.

looks like you just bought a morse code translator. Well... at least for me, this is your first post (out of don;t know how many) in this thread that is really addressing the OP. :rolleyes:

[quantized]

Can this committee that you are envisioning help us in anyway on planning for the next mega money bomb?

For e.g., would it be possible that we come up with a list of proposed moneybomb dates and ask the official campaign on their prefered date...

[evandi]

looks like you just bought a morse code translator. Well... at least for me, this is your first post (out of don;t know how many) in this thread that is really addressing the OP. :rolleyes:

I equated this thread with the thread yestarday about a "leader".

I'm very sorry for the way I reacted.

However, this whole thing really still seems unnecessary to me.

But I'm sorry ghemminger.

[FreeTraveler]

Ok...mann did I get your guys input. Actually some of you have opened my eyes to the idea and power of decentalization and freedom at the local level. I am sorry for getting this idea off in the wrong direction.

I've killed the former threads - and I'm offering the entire idea up to you guys.

I thinking this idea is dead - if you would like to resurrect it - the slate is blank - and I'm looking for your input....if you don't want it - I understand....

I think it might be useful to have a couple people keep an eye on the grassroots operation for HQ, if they don't do that already. It might have been handy for HQ to know more about November 5, Tea Party, Operation NH, the Blimp, Payday, etc., as they were in the planning stages. It would be nice to hear from HQ occasionally, to let us know in general terms what the good doctor needs down the road.

I think CO-ORDINATING or ADVISING between the two entities would be a mistake. I think better COMMUNICATION between the two would be very helpful as well as enlightening.

For example, it would be handy to know if Dr. Paul needs steady income now (Payday), or if it would be better for us to pick a date in a particular date range where we could raise a good sum all at once. (MLK or Benjamin's Birthday).

If they have tenative plans to have the Dr. in a particular place on a certain date, it would help us make sure he had lots of friendly people to greet him.

A simple "Hey, the Blimp is getting a lot of publicity for us, it would be great if you can keep it flying." would be a very powerful message from HQ.

Anything more specific in the way of management, and you'll kill what has made this movement so great... the freedom of the Free Market force!

[ghemminger]

FYI: I live about 10-15 minute from HQ, so if there is anything I can do to help (that is supportive of the campaign), let me know.

Thanks Steve - we'll figure out together what the next best step is

[ghemminger]

I equated this thread with the thread yestarday about a "leader".

I'm very sorry for the way I reacted.

However, this whole thing really still seems unnecessary to me.

But I'm sorry ghemminger.

No Prob. at all! Thanks

[ghemminger]

I think it might be useful to have a couple people keep an eye on the grassroots operation for HQ, if they don't do that already. It might have been handy for HQ to know more about November 5, Tea Party, Operation NH, the Blimp, Payday, etc., as they were in the planning stages. It would be nice to hear from HQ occasionally, to let us know in general terms what the good doctor needs down the road.

I think CO-ORDINATING or ADVISING between the two entities would be a mistake. I think better COMMUNICATION between the two would be very helpful as well as enlightening.

For example, it would be handy to know if Dr. Paul needs steady income now (Payday), or if it would be better for us to pick a date in a particular date range where we could raise a good sum all at once. (MLK or Benjamin's Birthday).

If they have tenative plans to have the Dr. in a particular place on a certain date, it would help us make sure he had lots of friendly people to greet him.

A simple "Hey, the Blimp is getting a lot of publicity for us, it would be great if you can keep it flying." would be a very powerful message from HQ.

Anything more specific in the way of management, and you'll kill what has made this movement so great... the freedom of the Free Market force!


COMMUNICATION between the two would be very helpful as well as enlightening.


Great point - thanks

[constituent]

Most of the congressman, or more probably all but one, on capital hill are chameleons anyway.

The whole "act nice to everyone like a politician" is related to the fact that none of the politicians on capital hill but paul really seem to care about what they "believe".

They are all really nice about everything because they are not even in conflict.

None of us here are about getting someone elected. We are about getting Ron Paul elected. That means no comprimise, no logrolling, no "politics".

i'm sorry, this relates to the thread... uhhhh, how?

i try and scan these threads while i'm at work (quickly) for relevant, pertinent information... you're hurting that, thanks.

get off it.

[constituent]

Well that means that somebody can be dedicated to updating daily a page on substantial campaign news for ronpaul2008.com. That is a cheap and non-bureaucratic option.

I repeat, an ombudsman. :)

yea, but i already do that at RonPaulNation.com (http://www.ronpaulnation.com),

and while you're there kick back and enjoy some of that good ol' fashioned freeme.tv (http://freeme.tv)!

[stevedasbach]

Well that means that somebody can be dedicated to updating daily a page on substantial campaign news for ronpaul2008.com. That is a cheap and non-bureaucratic option.

I repeat, an ombudsman. :)

The key is to have someone from the grassroots getting information to address concerns, so that no one on staff has to worry about it. All they have to do is provide someone on a regular basis for a short period of time who can answer a few questions. That's relatively small burden on staff time.

[ghemminger]

yea, but i already do that at RonPaulNation.com (http://www.ronpaulnation.com),

and while you're there kick back and enjoy some of that good ol' fashioned freeme.tv (http://freeme.tv)!

Con what happened to that article you wrote up - did you come out with it?

[evandi]

i'm sorry, this relates to the thread... uhhhh, how?

i try and scan these threads while i'm at work (quickly) for relevant, pertinent information... you're hurting that, thanks.

get off it.

I'm responding to the assertion that I should always have a positive attitude and be nice, with the accusation that that is something only career politicians do.

What does your response have to do with this thread?

[constituent]

Con what happened to that article you wrote up - did you come out with it?

yea, but i'm keeping it on hold until all of this pans out.... i'm looking for yesterday's thread so i can try to catch up on what went down since last we communicated...

do you have a link to that one?

[constituent]

I'm responding to the assertion that I should always have a positive attitude and be nice, with the accusation that that is something only career politicians do.

What does your response have to do with this thread?

lol :rolleyes:

[Spirit of '76]

Can this committee that you are envisioning help us in anyway on planning for the next mega money bomb?

For e.g., would it be possible that we come up with a list of proposed moneybomb dates and ask the official campaign on their prefered date...

That would be a perfect use of such an organization/ombudsman.

I tend to agree with evandi (yikes!) in that the grassroots is too broad and active for any one person to have a grasp on everything that's going on. For that reason, I'm not sure about having a single ombudsman acting as a liaison.

I like the idea of a committee of knowledgeable, dedicated supporters who solicit suggestions from the grassroots, compile and prioritize a list of concerns, and then deliver those concerns to the PCC.

Nobody has to participate if they don't want to, nobody is telling the individual grass roots what to do, and people are obviously still free to contact the campaign on their own if that's what they want to do.

I'm not even sure something like this requires anyone's "approval" -- it just needs an effective group of individuals to pull it off and someone at the PCC who is willing to listen and make sure our concerns get to Ron's ear.

[ghemminger]

That would be a perfect use of such an organization/ombudsman.

I tend to agree with evandi (yikes!) in that the grassroots is too broad and active for any one person to have a grasp on everything that's going on. For that reason, I'm not sure about having a single ombudsman acting as a liaison.

I like the idea of a committee of knowledgeable, dedicated supporters who solicit suggestions from the grassroots, compile and prioritize a list of concerns, and then deliver those concerns to the PCC.

Nobody has to participate if they don't want to, nobody is telling the individual grass roots what to do, and people are obviously still free to contact the campaign on their own if that's what they want to do.

I'm not even sure something like this requires anyone's "approval" -- it just needs an effective group of individuals to pull it off and someone at the PCC who is willing to listen and make sure our concerns get to Ron's ear.


Thanks Libert, 76, Thor, etc. pm or email george4title@yahoo.com and I'll get you the next conference call information.

[Spirit of '76]

Thanks Libert, 76, Thor, etc. pm or email george4title@yahoo.com and I'll get you the next conference call information.

Cool. :)

[ghemminger]

Iowa HQ update: Looks like they were predting a 3rd place in Iowa 5 days ago. Sit. changes day to day.....Everything is very fluid and of course hectic crazy. The campaign is working on precint captians and other caucus goers. Apparently one or more of thier caucus goers got multiple (12) auto calls. We are trying to determine thier origin - prolly the campaign. They are seeing on the ground grassoots efforts highly efficient in comparison to official efforts....

[Bryan]

Let's keep it civil here everyone.

Thanks! :)

[Bradley in DC]

it appears that 80% of the population also doesn't want a bureacracy bigger and more inefficient than FEMA.

Ok, who're the 20% who want one bigger and more inefficient bureaucracy than FEMA?!!!! :eek:

[Nyte]

What we really need is someone that can expand and organize what's already happening here at RonPaulForums...

We need a site (or some other form of communication) that brings all the sites together... a Ron Paul Directory of sorts.

Something that lists all the meetups, all the stores, all the forums and news sites.

A place that has literature and graphics for people to use for their own efforts. Videos, audio, pamphlets... all types of media.

Something like THAT would be the most valuable asset this grassroots has.

[constituent]

What we really need is someone that can expand and organize what's already happening here at RonPaulForums...

We need a site (or some other form of communication) that brings all the sites together... a Ron Paul Directory of sorts.

Something that lists all the meetups, all the stores, all the forums and news sites.

A place that has literature and graphics for people to use for their own efforts. Videos, audio, pamphlets... all types of media.

Something like THAT would be the most valuable asset this grassroots has.

www.ronpaulportal.com is friggin' awesome!

[libertythor]

Now that people are discussing things with civility, I wish I could change my vote on this thread from 2 stars to 3 or 4. :)

Personally I think Steve Dasbach's idea is the best of all of them. GHemminger would be perfect for this sort of communication, as he is well-trusted by most on these forums and has a history of giving quality coverage and updates on events.

Either way we all (or almost all) can agree that the short campaign schedule bit and article reposts are not sufficient for the campaign website. People need to be kept up to date with what the campaign is doing.

Lets get this ombudsman idea rolling.

[ghemminger]

Now that people are discussing things with civility, I wish I could change my vote on this thread from 2 stars to 3 or 4. :)

Personally I think Steve Dasbach's idea is the best of all of them. GHemminger would be perfect for this sort of communication, as he is well-trusted by most on these forums and has a history of giving quality coverage and updates on events.

Either way we all (or almost all) can agree that the short campaign schedule bit and article reposts are not sufficient for the campaign website. People need to be kept up to date with what the campaign is doing.

Lets get this ombudsman idea rolling.


Liberty could you put together a quick write up and email me your contact info...thanks