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Akus
07-14-2007, 12:40 AM
"I don't believe the gov't should control everything. If a country club wants to exclude blacks they should be able to"

I've read elsewhere that Ron Paul allegedly said this. Please people tell me that it's just someone spinning what he said. Please. We're trying so hard to push this guy, how can he say something so stupid?

micahnelson
07-14-2007, 12:43 AM
Uh, I hadn't heard that. I'm sure it would have come out by now.

BLS
07-14-2007, 12:44 AM
You gotta provide more than "I heard".......c'mon man.

Conjecture???

kimosabi
07-14-2007, 12:44 AM
SOURCE???????

orenbus
07-14-2007, 12:45 AM
i'll believe it when i see the link

micahnelson
07-14-2007, 12:45 AM
I guess its "Put words in Ron Paul's Mouth" Day.

I heard him say he saved a lot of money by switching to geico.

SeanEdwards
07-14-2007, 12:46 AM
Private clubs should be free to let in whoever they like, for whatever reasons they like. Do you think it's the job of government to tell you who your friends must be?

As long as the private club is truly private and not taxpayer subsidized, then they can do what they like.

Look at it this way, I'm white, do you think the United negro college fund has a right to arbitrarily deny me a scholarship because of my skin tone? They certainly think they do, and I don't see any irate collectivists protesting that racism.

kylejack
07-14-2007, 12:49 AM
I agree with that. Around the corner from me there is a gym for females only. There was a golf club in the past that had that exact policy. There was another that excluded women. I would not expect to be welcomed with open arms if I went to a barbershop in the ghetto, or a taqueria in the barrio. I also know that a pretty girl has a better chance of being let into a packed club than my ugly mug. And heaven forbid I am ever waited on by a DUDE in ass shorts and a tight top at Hooters. Its the free market, yo.

jblosser
07-14-2007, 12:51 AM
To try to keep this as objective as possible:

Please indicate the part of the Constitution that allows the national government to compel private individuals or groups to associate with anyone on their own property.

If it's not in the Constitution, Dr. Paul is going to say the national goverment can't do it. This should not be a surprise by now.

Harald
07-14-2007, 12:51 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association

... the implicit First Amendment right of association has been limited by court rulings. For example, it is illegal in the United States to consider race in the making and enforcement of private contracts other than marriage or taking affirmative action. This limitation of freedom of association results from Section 1981 of Title 42 of the Civil Rights Act, as weighed against the First Amendment according to the court decision Runyon v. McCrary, 427 U.S. 160 (1976).

The holding of Runyon is that the defendant private schools were free to express and teach their views, such as white separatism, but could not discriminate on the basis of race in the provision of services to the general public. So if the plaintiff African-American children wished to attend such private schools, and were clearly qualified in all respects (but race) and were able to pay the fees, and were willing to attend despite the fact that the schools strongly disliked them, then the schools were required by Section 1981 to admit them. The general rule to be drawn from this is that the First Amendment protects the right to express, including expression of racial discrimination, but people may not practice such ideas even within private associations.

This doctrine rests on the interpretation of a private contract as a "badge" of slavery when either party considers race in choosing the other. The phrase "badges... of slavery" is from the Circuit Court decision 109 U.S. 3 (1883) [1] upholding the power of Congress to pass laws under the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution compensating for the legacy of slavery.

ronpaulhawaii
07-14-2007, 12:54 AM
"Let’s be perfectly clear: the federal government has no business regulating speech in any way. Furthermore, government as an institution is particularly ill-suited to combating bigotry in our society. Bigotry at its essence is a sin of the heart, and we can’t change people’s hearts by passing more laws and regulations." Ron Paul

http://unofficial-ronpaul2008blog.blogspot.com/search/label/racism

SeanEdwards
07-14-2007, 12:56 AM
I think we should pass a Federal law that says everyone has to LOVE everyone! And if somebody doesn't show enough LOVE, they will be beaten severely until we can see the LOVE!

I love you all! :D

SwordOfShannarah
07-14-2007, 12:59 AM
I heard Ron Paul said we're all going to be attacked by giant space ogres, and that it would be ok for private organizations to exclude them from their clubs if they didn't like giant attacking space ogres.

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT RON PAUL GUY!?!

smtwngrl
07-14-2007, 01:24 AM
"I don't believe the gov't should control everything. If a country club wants to exclude blacks they should be able to"

I've read elsewhere that Ron Paul allegedly said this. Please people tell me that it's just someone spinning what he said. Please. We're trying so hard to push this guy, how can he say something so stupid?

It's just someone spinning what he said. :)

And I'm sure that's correct. Think of all the times that Ron Paul "said" something versus the reality of what he really said.

LibertyBelle
07-14-2007, 01:50 AM
I think we should pass a Federal law that says everyone has to LOVE everyone! And if somebody doesn't show enough LOVE, they will be beaten severely until we can see the LOVE!

I love you all! :D


I knew it, I knew it! You believe in a one world religion! ;)

fluoridatedbrainsoup
07-14-2007, 02:56 AM
Same way we should be able to have smoking and nonsmoking bars. It is up to the person who owns the establishment, and NOT the government. The free market takes care of these things.

Akus
07-14-2007, 03:01 AM
I heard Ron Paul said we're all going to be attacked by giant space ogres, and that it would be ok for private organizations to exclude them from their clubs if they didn't like giant attacking space ogres.

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT RON PAUL GUY!?!

Sword, I understand exactly what you're trying to say. I will admit ignorance of the source of this, this is a second hand information and I'm selling it for what I bought it.

I am not interested in rumors. A rumor about Ron Paul saying something that may be perceived offensive is just as irrelevant as the non-sense about Bush attacking Iraq because he wanted to settle the score for his Daddy's failed assassination attempt, orchestrated by Saddam. We don't know that for a fact, and let's face it, if Bush let us that close to him that you actually heard him say that (in some very private surroundings I'm sure), you'd never say that anyway.

However, I don't believe smokes exist with no fire to supply it. There are many rumours about Clintons and how Vince Foster commited suicide with some "help". That's all smoke, but the fire is that Clintons are shady and had criminal investigations against them.

Same with Ron. I'm sure, I really hope, he said nothing of the sort, but perhaps he is, or once was, known to say things that could be misrepresented as controversial, like the "we deserved 9/11" incident.

I hope you understand.

LizF
07-14-2007, 03:38 AM
I am not interested in rumors. A rumor about Ron Paul saying something that may be perceived offensive is just as irrelevant as the non-sense about Bush attacking Iraq because he wanted to settle the score for his Daddy's failed assassination attempt, orchestrated by Saddam. We don't know that for a fact, and let's face it, if Bush let us that close to him that you actually heard him say that (in some very private surroundings I'm sure), you'd never say that anyway.



I'm not sure when Bush said this, but he did at least mention it publicly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL6OGwsp9_o

(I couldn't find a longer version to properly situate the context of Bush's statement.)

beermotor
07-14-2007, 05:23 AM
Yeah, you know, I think Clarence Thomas says the exact same stuff about freedom of association.

I don't see the big deal.

The point is, if government got out of the business of "correcting racism" the impetus to discriminate could be destroyed by the FREE MARKET. Ideas and trade always trump suspicion and seclusion, period. Look at the Japanese, man.

iamso910
07-14-2007, 05:46 AM
I doubt Ron Paul would phrase the freedom of association message that way.

Anyway, just because someone supports the right for private owners to ban red headed step-children, or whatever other group, it doesn't mean they agree with that private owner's decision. They just support the property owner's right to allow whoever they want onto their own property.

oldpaths1611
07-14-2007, 05:50 AM
Freedom of association and assembly means that anyone anywhere can associate with anyone else they choose to and NOT associate with anyone they choose not to. It has nothing to do with rascism or hate. It as to do with freedom.

In a truly free society the government has absolutely no business forcing its citizens to associate with one another. Birds of a feather flock together by nature and, quite frankly, it is the government mandated forcing of different groups together and the resentment that it causes that has resulted in much of the racial tension and violence in this country. Multiculturalism is an evil equivalent to globalism and one-worldism. You cannot force harmony between peoples. It must come of their own free will in order for it to be real and lasting.

If there is one thing the Civil Rights Act was not about, it was not about liberty or rights. It was all about bigger government and more control. As a Christian, I absolutely want the government staying out of my church and telling me who I should or shouldn't let in. In the same regard, if you want to have an all White club, or an all Black club, an all gay club, or all male club or whatever - have at it.

Let the Black Panthers do their thing, and the Aryan Nation the same. As long as the rights of some are not hurting or infringing upon the rights of others, leave people alone! If you can't fight for the rights of the guy you disagree with as much as for your own, then you know nothing about liberty. Different views and varying ideas in a free and open society. That's what freedom is all about.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

oldpaths1611
07-14-2007, 06:03 AM
A classic example of voluntary association and its effects upon human relations! He chose to crash their party and they chose to have him stay...the rest is history! Great story!

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/07/13/america/NA-ODD-US-Robber-Group-Hug.php

Jimmy
07-14-2007, 06:16 AM
Whether he said it or not I agree. NAACP should be able to exclude people not of the black race as well. If a black country club, or other private club, wants to exclude whites thats there choice. Girl Scouts should be able to exclude boys. If you have a private group they should be able to decide who they want to be in there group period. Next time you want to have a big annual party, payed for by you personally or a small group of friends, you SHOULD be able to invite or not invite whomever you like....and NOT have the goverment step in a tell you who you can or cannot exclude. JMO.

glts
07-14-2007, 06:17 AM
You are absolutely right oldpaths1611. The trouble with people today is that they have been brainwashed by all of this crap. People should be allowed to have any club they want that isn't hurting anyone else and include or exclude anyone they want. We all belonged to clubs as kids and how ridiculous it would have sounded if you were forced to accept people in your club. I think if Ron Paul said something about this subject he might have used a different scenerio but if he said it like that he's absolutely right. Anyone that thinks that people should be forced to admit people into their non government organization deserves the kind of shit government they are going to get!

RonPaul_Has_2_first_names
07-14-2007, 06:58 AM
"I don't believe the gov't should control everything. If a country club wants to exclude blacks they should be able to"

I've read elsewhere that Ron Paul allegedly said this. Please people tell me that it's just someone spinning what he said. Please. We're trying so hard to push this guy, how can he say something so stupid?


Well I agree with him if he said it. Government should not control this.

Did you know a man is being tried in court recently for claiming to be a racist? Yes folks, it is now illegal to be a racist.

Sure most of you don't like racists. But do you agree it should be illegal to be a racist in the USA? We are supposed to be free to practice whatever we like as long as it is not harming others.

Is it fair Black people get scholarships just because of their skin color? Is it fair they get their own holidays?

I hate being a white person. I wish I were black. Life would be so easy. As a white person, I'm struggling to get into college. If I were black I would get a free scholarship just because of my skin.

Yeah, I'm sure this is what the founder fathers intended. :rolleyes:

micahnelson
07-14-2007, 07:04 AM
While private organizations should be free to associate with who they wish, a fact Ron Paul would certainly agree with, we don't want to attribute specific quotes to him unless he said them.

osofaux
07-14-2007, 07:31 AM
I heard that he said blacks were flat footed

The Dane
07-14-2007, 07:37 AM
As a white person, I'm struggling to get into college. If I were black I would get a free scholarship just because of my skin.

Uh, i thought you americans were against racism ... i guess not :eek:

Thats racism against black people because it tells everybody that if they will not get it for free they will not make it.

And why will they not make it?

The answer to that question is racist no matter what it is, and the people who made that law are racists. And the law itself promotes racism further.


From overhere all that political correctness in America is pretty amusing...


Ron Paul 2008 ... or bust.

mdh
07-14-2007, 07:48 AM
"I don't believe the gov't should control everything. If a country club wants to exclude blacks they should be able to"

I've read elsewhere that Ron Paul allegedly said this. Please people tell me that it's just someone spinning what he said. Please. We're trying so hard to push this guy, how can he say something so stupid?

What's wrong with this? A country club is private property. That's not stupid, and it's not racist, it's a firm belief in private property rights.

For the record, a country club CAN LEGALLY NOW exclude blacks or any other group they wish. Only groups/entities that receive government funding cannot. This was recently challenged in the supreme court case regarding gay scout leaders, and the boy scouts of america won.

Bradley in DC
07-14-2007, 08:02 AM
What happened to freedom of association? Yes, people have a Constitutional right to be stupid (privately).

Scribbler de Stebbing
07-14-2007, 08:34 AM
The free market does take care of this. If my neighbors thought I belonged to a club that didn't allow blacks, they wouldn't invite me to their frankfurter roasts.

This reminds me of a critique I wrote of The Sneetches a while ago: http://johnadamsblog.blogspot.com/2006/03/sneetches-critical-review.html

richard1984
07-14-2007, 08:58 AM
I hate being a white person. I wish I were black. Life would be so easy. As a white person, I'm struggling to get into college. If I were black I would get a free scholarship just because of my skin.

While this is true (and it is annoying...especially when you actually have a learning disability (ADHD in my case--which is actually more like a school disability than a learning disability), and you go through Hell without help--and then they act like not being white is a disorder, and, thus, subsidize those who don't have white skin), we must not forget that it is still pretty difficult to "be black in a white world"--especially down here in ol' Tennessee, buddy.

I would like to see more thought being given to how they distribute scholarships, though. I had more than a full scholarship when I started college, but I lost it because I have a really hard time saying on task, keeping organized, scheduling my time, etc., and things got out of control, I got overwhelmed and burnt-out, and...anyway, it's just really shitty.
But I'll go ahead and tell ya--yes, there are black students who need scholarship money to be able to afford college, but there are white students who are poor, too. There are some black students who come from well off families, and who really don't need the financial help. But they get it anyway. I know that if people actualy tried, they could distribute that money to other places/people who really need it.



I heard that he said blacks were flat footed

Again...give sources for your statements. Or just don't say anything.
Or maybe you're just joking....



Uh, i thought you americans were against racism ... i guess not :eek:

Thats racism against black people because it tells everybody that if they will not get it for free they will not make it.

And why will they not make it?

The answer to that question is racist no matter what it is, and the people who made that law are racists. And the law itself promotes racism further.

From overhere all that political correctness in America is pretty amusing...


First of all, I don't think that "it tells everybody that if they will not get it for free they will not make it." I don't really know where you inferred that from, but I think that it's incorrect. It is true, though, that there is a whole lot of shallow bias in the name of "equality" and "political correctness." But don't use the stupidity of the U.S. government, officials, etc. to think that you are better than Americans, though. The truth is, our government--and our society to a large extent--does not reflect or represent everyone. For example, people shouldn't blame the U.S. foreign policy on America. It's the corrupt people in power. They don't deserve to be Americans. They don't deserve anything. They are the world's enemies.

TheConstitutionLives
07-14-2007, 09:10 AM
"I don't believe the gov't should control everything. If a country club wants to exclude blacks they should be able to"

I've read elsewhere that Ron Paul allegedly said this. Please people tell me that it's just someone spinning what he said. Please. We're trying so hard to push this guy, how can he say something so stupid?

You said this is second hand information and that you dont know that it's true so WHY THE HELL ARE YOU POSTING THIS??? All you're doing is spreading something that's probably not even true. Good god.

How about I start a thread with "WTF - I Heard Akus loved Fudge Packing!!!!!" ? It's second hand info and I'm not sure it's true but I'm gonn post it on a public message board for the world to see anyway. :rolleyes:

Bob Cochran
07-14-2007, 09:11 AM
i'll believe it when i see the link
That's all it would take? Just seeing a link?

Puh-leeeeeez.....

SeanEdwards
07-14-2007, 09:30 AM
Uh, i thought you americans were against racism ... i guess not :eek:

Thats racism against black people because it tells everybody that if they will not get it for free they will not make it.

And why will they not make it?

The answer to that question is racist no matter what it is, and the people who made that law are racists. And the law itself promotes racism further.


From overhere all that political correctness in America is pretty amusing...


Ron Paul 2008 ... or bust.

It is quite a puzzle. A nation that seems obsessed with eliminating racism, has enacted a multitude of laws and organizations that encourage people to self collectivize into racial subgroups. At practically every encounter with the government, we Americans are asked to check a little box idenitfying our "race". Every job application, every scholarship application, every government form, we are presented with this opportunity and encouraged to reinforce our racial divisions. Our media plays upon these groupings. Statisticians count the numbers of "black" criminals to compare with the "white" ones. The whole thing is patently absurd. Biology and genetics tells us that there is practically no difference between the races, yet our entire social order is constantly doing backflips over these stupid questions and creating controversy where there need not be any.

My personal response to this issue for many years has been to write in "human" whenever asked to self-identify my race. Fuck the racist statisticians.

AZ Libertarian
07-14-2007, 10:37 AM
I agree with that. Around the corner from me there is a gym for females only. There was a golf club in the past that had that exact policy. There was another that excluded women. I would not expect to be welcomed with open arms if I went to a barbershop in the ghetto, or a taqueria in the barrio. I also know that a pretty girl has a better chance of being let into a packed club than my ugly mug. And heaven forbid I am ever waited on by a DUDE in ass shorts and a tight top at Hooters. Its the free market, yo.

uh.. didn't the name 'golf' come from 'gentlemen only - ladies forbidden'? :p

ronpaulitician
07-14-2007, 10:40 AM
Is our society truly so racist that companies that practice racism would not suffer the negative consequences of that behavior?

aravoth
07-14-2007, 10:43 AM
So fucking tired of this stupid ass subject. Post a fucking source. Or tell the far left, communist jackass you heard it from to post a source.

torchbearer
07-14-2007, 10:56 AM
I think we should pass a Federal law that says everyone has to LOVE everyone! And if somebody doesn't show enough LOVE, they will be beaten severely until we can see the LOVE!

I love you all! :D

I love you big brother.

osofaux
07-14-2007, 11:03 AM
Again...give sources for your statements. Or just don't say anything.
Or maybe you're just joking....

:o

It was a joke reference to his alleged "fleet footed" comment, for which I have never seen a source.

1000-points-of-fright
07-14-2007, 11:42 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_association

... the implicit First Amendment right of association has been limited by court rulings. For example, it is illegal in the United States to consider race in the making and enforcement of private contracts other than marriage or taking affirmative action. This limitation of freedom of association results from Section 1981 of Title 42 of the Civil Rights Act, as weighed against the First Amendment according to the court decision Runyon v. McCrary, 427 U.S. 160 (1976).

The highlighted part should be enough to invalidate this ruling. You can't consider race unless it has to do with marriage? Sounds pretty racist to me.

If I owned a strip club should I be required to hire a certain percentage of ugly girls? Freedom of association also means freedom FROM association.

amdajo
07-14-2007, 01:25 PM
My personal response to this issue for many years has been to write in "human" whenever asked to self-identify my race. Fuck the racist statisticians.

Sean, I love that idea!

Thanks!

JoshLowry
07-14-2007, 01:27 PM
Your title is vague and you are making claims off of hearsay.

Please don't make bad threads.

Thanks.