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Myerz
01-01-2008, 04:12 PM
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FREEDOM AND ORGANIZED CHAOS!

And, I'm just talking about main national events........consolidate the great ideas...into one....and then have a MAIN EVENT!!! (What ever it is...)

Who is going to step up?

Currently there are too many cook in the kitchen!

To many chiefs and not enough warriors!

We need to organize all the meetups...all the ideas.......all the money bombs......HQ cannot organize the grassroots!

drexhex
01-01-2008, 04:13 PM
I think that would eliminate the point of the grassroots...

EDIT:

Also, I think that it would be impossible. The same ideas don't work everywhere right now. Some places still need name recognition (sign-waving, blimp) and others need the more detailed information (door-to-door, phone bank).

Jeremy
01-01-2008, 04:13 PM
Sounds interesting... but it just seems like it would be too hard to decide.

AdoubleR
01-01-2008, 04:13 PM
I heard Bryan In DC gets high ratings from the campaign... But there's loads of candidates...

aravoth
01-01-2008, 04:14 PM
K, you guys find your leader, I'll keep doing shit on my own.

UtahApocalypse
01-01-2008, 04:14 PM
completely opposite of everything we are working for.

hueylong
01-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Another BAD idea.

The grassroots is a marketplace. Good ideas succeed, bad ideas founder...

Asking all the Paulites to follow a "leader" -- is unworkable, and undesireable.

Huey

tsetsefly
01-01-2008, 04:14 PM
I think that would eliminate the point of the grassroots...

+1, we dont need a leader, better coordination but not a leader...

1913_to_2008
01-01-2008, 04:14 PM
I think it is a good idea. Otherwise some mole can take over a money bomb and fudge it up.

jasonjasonjason1
01-01-2008, 04:15 PM
K, you guys find your leader, I'll keep doing shit on my own.

+1

AggieforPaul
01-01-2008, 04:16 PM
I disagree. We do need a leader. The marketplace should decide a leader. If the leader doesn't constantly generate great results, then we find a new one. But we need some sort of structure. Post tea party has been a clusterfuck.

dvictr
01-01-2008, 04:17 PM
central planning = socialism... go vote for hillary

Myerz
01-01-2008, 04:18 PM
OK....screw ya.......organized chaos it is............ FREEDOM!!!!! WHOOOHOOO!

So....what do we do next?

Oh, let's have some kind of organized event ....hmmm what day.......no not that day...how about this day......no screw that ....this day........oh shit....now I don't know what to do......screw it!....I'm going for the blimp!

I see it every time we decide to do something!

Ron Paul Fan
01-01-2008, 04:18 PM
I agree! The grassroots would work a lot easier if it was a dictatorship, but only if I'm the dictator! NO! We don't need a leader! WE'RE ALL LEADERS!!!!!!! LESS REGULATION! VOTE RON PAUL! HE DEFENDS OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!

jjschless
01-01-2008, 04:18 PM
Don't waste time on creating a bureaucracy just keep your eyes on the prize. Besides given the close proximity of the primaries most folks should be spending less time on the internet and more time outside of the house.

hueylong
01-01-2008, 04:19 PM
Trying to make all the ideas and energy of the grassroots go through a "leader" is the opposite of everything we stand for.

It's totally unworkable. Why on earth would we want to do something like that?

All of our ideas are debated across the nation in multiple forums -- the good ideas succeed, the bad ones don't. It's the core of everything Dr. Paul has stood for in his 30 years in politics.

Huey

Bryan
01-01-2008, 04:20 PM
Nothing wrong with leaders, but it works on the principles of spontaneous order. If there is someone that you think it worthy of being a leader, follow them. Others may if they feel it's a benefit too. Others will do as Aravoth points out.

But really, we already have this on a project by project basis- some people lead them, others help, chip-in, etc. Works well. :)

dvictr
01-01-2008, 04:20 PM
SAY NO to central planning

LibertyEagle
01-01-2008, 04:21 PM
I heard Bryan In DC gets high ratings from the campaign... But there's loads of candidates...

That's Bradley in DC.

LibertyEagle
01-01-2008, 04:22 PM
OK....screw ya.......organized chaos it is............ FREEDOM!!!!! WHOOOHOOO!

So....what do we do next?

Oh, let's have some kind of organized event ....hmmm what day.......no not that day...how about this day......no screw that ....this day........oh shit....now I don't know what to do......screw it!....I'm going for the blimp!

I see it every time we decide to do something!

It's called freedom.

Myerz
01-01-2008, 04:24 PM
What are you all talking about....every MEETUP has a leader.......All I was getting at was maybe the meetup leaders getting together.....just a little organization.......screw your socialism crap. How do you live? Are you completely disorganized from day to day...???

mikeh2002
01-01-2008, 04:31 PM
Trying to make all the ideas and energy of the grassroots go through a "leader" is the opposite of everything we stand for.

It's totally unworkable. Why on earth would we want to do something like that?

All of our ideas are debated across the nation in multiple forums -- the good ideas succeed, the bad ones don't. It's the core of everything Dr. Paul has stood for in his 30 years in politics.

Huey

On that note then, do we have a place where past successes are highlighted (alongside past failures) so that we can better use this info to the advantage of the campaign?
I'll apologize in advance if there is already such a location.

drexhex
01-01-2008, 04:32 PM
How do you live? Are you completely disorganized from day to day...???

Yep.

Every day I pick a new place to go out and wave a sign. Or I may choose to go door-to-door. Or maybe I'll make a few phone calls to Iowa or mail a couple letters. Some days I just take a break. Some days on the way to work I hand out slim-jims at 30th Street Station in Philadelphia. Occasionally I go there and preach about the Good Doctor. Some days I get involved with the Student Liberty Front at Drexel. Some days I try to find the news vans and follow them with a Ron Paul sign.

Is that really so bad?

Troyhand
01-01-2008, 04:34 PM
Bad Idea. History shows it's always the nutcases and power-hungry sociopaths who want to be leaders of the tribe. That's why Ron Paul is such a singular individual. He's a humble man who doesn't really like the power mantle of leadership, but he feels he doesn't have a choice in these times but to run for president. And thank God for that, because he may be able to redefine what the role of a leader is supposed to be.
But if we start calling out for a leader in the grassroots movement, the first people who will start yelling, "pick me! pick me!" will more than likely be power-hungry assholes who would be detrimental to the whole philosophy of our movement.
I'd rather trust the judgement of a person who is hesitant of power and doesn't really want to be in a position of dictating to others.

ghemminger
01-01-2008, 04:34 PM
What are you all talking about....every MEETUP has a leader.......All I was getting at was maybe the meetup leaders getting together.....just a little organization.......screw your socialism crap. How do you live? Are you completely disorganized from day to day...???


Grassroots Advisory Board
Grassroots Activists Host First of Weekly Conversations
All Revolutionaries are Invited
With several major events slated for the coming weeks-not the least of which the approaching primaries and caucuses-time is of the essence and the campaign will adapt or die.
What the official campaign brings to the table is Ron Paul and his message. What we bring is all the passion, the excitement, the recruitment.
-Katherine
Introducting Hemminger Live‘s
Weekly Wake-up Call

RonPaulRadio.com brings you a new grassroots weekly update and brainstorming segment on the Hemminger Live program, this first of which was hosted early this week on New Year’s Eve. Participants included Operation Call for Paul, Katherine from the Ron Paul Blimp Squad, and hosts George Hemminger and DJLoti from Ron Paul Radio.
The idea behind these weekly discussions is to ultimately provide a broadcast-oriented vessel for sustained (if somewhat indirect) communication between the official campaign and the grassroots communities.
Your Input Requested

All activists and observers from all projects and angles are invited to join in the discussion at ronpaulradio.com either by joining in on the chat, or by making prior arrangements to participate in the call with DJLoti.
This Week’s Topics of Interest


Expressing the purpose of establishing a grassroots advisory board
Discussing recent developments in the campaign
Critiquing and advising both grassroots and official campaigns
Helping the official campaign adapt to the new realities of network-based societies and the effect it will continue to have on politics New Year’s Eve 2007
1.1
plain Transparency
All participants expressed a desire to see the campaign engage the grassroots more directly in terms of the specific projects and goals, campaign priorities, that all grassroots participants and donors should keep in mind, per the desire of the official campaign staff.
1.2
Ron paul is a product
It sounds strange, but it is true. When the campaign learns to harness the motion coming off the grassroots and begins using it to successfully market the message, Ron Paul’s election will be unstoppable.
1.3
Need More ‘Buzzing Actions’
The official campaign needs to watch the grassroots and take note. Learn from the successes and failures and emulate what it sees.
expedit distinct
Ut orci. Duis ultricies, metus a feugiat porttitor, dolor mauris convallis est, quis. Coonsectetuer adipiscing elit. Donec enim orci, ultricies in, malesuada quis, egestas quis, wisi. Donec ac mattis sapien.
Ron Paul radio - ron paul blimp - operation call for paul - 12.31.2007

yongrel
01-01-2008, 04:34 PM
Ooh, I have a really great idea! Let's kill the enthusiasm of the grassroots!

MayTheRonBeWithYou
01-01-2008, 04:35 PM
-1

austin356
01-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Also, I think that it would be impossible. The same ideas don't work everywhere right now. Some places still need name recognition (sign-waving, blimp) and others need the more detailed information (door-to-door, phone bank).


while I dont necessarily agree with the OP this has absolutely ZERO bearing on the topic. Needs are different for Millions of companies across different regions but they still have a leader.

disciple
01-01-2008, 04:36 PM
How about a grassroots committee?

OptionsTrader
01-01-2008, 04:37 PM
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FREEDOM AND ORGANIZED CHAOS!

And, I'm just talking about main national events........consolidate the great ideas...into one....and then have a MAIN EVENT!!! (What ever it is...)

Who is going to step up?

Currently there are too many cook in the kitchen!

To many chiefs and not enough warriors!

We need to organize all the meetups...all the ideas.......all the money bombs......HQ cannot organize the grassroots!

Meetup group leaders and assistant leaders are there for people that want to be led, or make your own if you want to lead. And coordinate activities with other nearby leaders. That's what has been working.

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/

rfbz
01-01-2008, 04:41 PM
believe me, you think it's bad now, it would be a lot worse with a leader. When it's decentralized, if an idea is stupid, people decide not to involve themselves in it and go with something else. But if there is a leader, just think of the amount of bickering back and fourth about what a stupid idea something is that we're all supposed to go along with.

szczebrzeszyn
01-01-2008, 04:43 PM
Another BAD idea.
+1

freelance
01-01-2008, 04:43 PM
WRONG campaign.

A (as in one single) leader? Do you have any idea the time and energy that would take? Should this person give up his or her job/family/other responsibilities. Oh, wait, what if we pick someone with no responsibilities? If they have no responsibilities, what kind of leader would they make?

There are many leaders here and they're all doing fine. Let the leaders work among themselves, if they see fit, or become a leader yourself.

bobmurph
01-01-2008, 05:01 PM
I disagree. We do need a leader. The marketplace should decide a leader. If the leader doesn't constantly generate great results, then we find a new one. But we need some sort of structure. Post tea party has been a clusterfuck.

Agree 100% Trevor took a leadership position with the 5th & Teaparty and everyone naturally rallied behind the ideas and efforts.

We don't necessarily need an elected leader, but we need some sort of structure when it comes to fundraising. We have some much bickering and indecision about how we are going to generate $23M in funds over the next month. We need to have one or two clear fundraising projects that we can rally behind. If things continue the way they are then none of the fundraising projects (payday, mlk, franklin, etc...) are going to be as succesful as we need them to be.

We must rally behind one fundraising idea. Personally, I prefer the payday. It makes the most sense logistically, provides the campaign w/ a constant stream of funds, and has the potential to easily generate $20M over the next 5 weeks if we can fully get behind it.

I propose a vote for Thursday January 3rd. The forum decides what will be the main fundraising project for January and the $23 Million goal, and cans the other ideas in favor of full support for the winning project. Over the next 2 days we can nominate ideas and vote on Thursday starting at Noon. The Payday, MLK, & Ben Franklin Day are the current ideas leading in support. Any one of these ideas can work, but we must have accross the board support for only one, or all 3 will be failures.

Myerz
01-01-2008, 05:04 PM
OK..OK....screw organization........fricken it's a free for all! Whoooooohoooooo get the hell out of my way....I'm coming through! Shut the hell up! What?

scandinaviany3
01-01-2008, 05:04 PM
So far it seems the best thing to do is organize freelance skills and connections online. Next put the challenge to them and money...the result from that is the revolution we have.

Personally with sooooo much to do i think either ronpaulforums or daily paul could put up a webring/challenge ring for grassroots to go to.

For instance projects like ours www.operationbroadcastfreedom.com would be one of many groups with studios, editors, directors, producers, sound people, graphic designers, etc.

Then daily paul or ronpaulforums could have us contract with a political market study group on each state 1 month ahead of time to screen our ideas.

The best winners in these political market studies could then be put out for bid amongst the coalition to bid time, resources and needed budget.

PrismPaul
01-01-2008, 05:05 PM
Adding my voice to the "no leader" ranks. Good ideas will get the attention they need. I understand the frustration of seeing so much "noise" and what looks like so much uncoordinated energy. (That's exactly what socialists say about free-market capitalism too, by the way) But when we all stand back and look at the results after Iowa and New Hampshire, we will once again see confirmation of power of this awesome decentralized system.

hueylong
01-01-2008, 05:07 PM
A networked organization like the grass roots is far superior to attempts at creating top-down hierarchy.

The official campaign (like all official campaigns) is organized as a hierarchy. The grassroots works much better without that kind of restriction.

Huey

evandi
01-01-2008, 05:10 PM
OK..OK....screw organization........fricken it's a free for all! Whoooooohoooooo get the hell out of my way....I'm coming through! Shut the hell up! What?

Whatever you're on. Please get off it.

THIS IS A FORUM. THIS IS NOT THE FREAKING OFFICIAL GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION. YOU WILL NOT FIND ONE BECAUSE THERE IS NONE. PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY FEEL IS NECESSARY AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED THUS FAR AND THINK IT IS NOTHING YOU MUST EITHER BE HIGH OR A HIJACKER.

Ponder the term grassroots. If you still don't understand, sober up and try again later.

Troyhand
01-01-2008, 05:23 PM
Hi. I'm your new leader. Everyone do what I tell you to or I'm gonna call you a traitor to the movement and have you banned from the revolution.
And since I'm the new leader, I should be paid well. And chicks. I want chicks to hang all over me giving me sweet leader love.
And a boat. Leader needs to coast the waves for the revolution. And a funny hat. Gimme one of those, too.
Now do what I say or I'll.....THUNK!!!! (sound of grassroots kicking me in the nuts)

ummm, nevermind. I'll go back to work now and start converting people to Ron Paul.

austin356
01-01-2008, 05:30 PM
OK..OK....screw organization........fricken it's a free for all! Whoooooohoooooo get the hell out of my way....I'm coming through! Shut the hell up! What?


Dont get down you are dealing with the most radical of all grassroots people. They resist any type of really anything not perfectly aligned with their idea of "campaigning" even though most have zero political experience let alone campaign experience.


(let me assert again I am not saying I support the OP or am better experienced than the average person on here)

Catatonic
01-01-2008, 05:34 PM
If you really need someone to tell you what to do, why not volunteer for the official campaign?

dircha
01-01-2008, 05:40 PM
We need market leaders, not appointed leaders.

If you want to lead, start leading. It's as simple as that. No one is going to tell you to lead. No one is going to appoint you to lead.

If you want to lead, start leading. Start putting your ideas into action, now. Don't wait for permission. Don't wait for consensus. You won't get it. You have to start by doing.

And if the market - us - believes your plan is sound, and believes that it will be successful, and if you show others how they can help, then they will join you, and you will be a leader.

evandi
01-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Dont get down you are dealing with the most radical of all grassroots people. They resist any type of really anything not perfectly aligned with their idea of "campaigning" even though most have zero political experience let alone campaign experience.


(let me assert again I am not saying I support the OP or am better experienced than the average person on here)

No, it is the OP who is rejecting anything not perfectly aligned with his idea of campaigning because currently anyone who wants to follow a leader can do so, as has been pointed out. Lots of people do. When everyone has the exact same goal you don't really need a leader anyway though. Instead people cooperate.

However, trying to make an "official" grassroots organization would be ignoring everyone who dissented, and it would be dishonest and completely unreal.

If you want to volunteer to a hierarchical organization, volunteer for the official campaign.

Eponym_mi
01-01-2008, 05:48 PM
I nominate Ron Paul as leader of the grassroots.:rolleyes:

Myerz
01-01-2008, 05:50 PM
I nominate Ron Paul as leader of the grassroots.:rolleyes:


Ya...to bad he can't say anything.

Just drop it all of you!

LibertyEagle
01-01-2008, 06:00 PM
We need market leaders, not appointed leaders.

If you want to lead, start leading. It's as simple as that. No one is going to tell you to lead. No one is going to appoint you to lead.

If you want to lead, start leading. Start putting your ideas into action, now. Don't wait for permission. Don't wait for consensus. You won't get it. You have to start by doing.

And if the market - us - believes your plan is sound, and believes that it will be successful, and if you show others how they can help, then they will join you, and you will be a leader.

+1

freelance
01-01-2008, 06:09 PM
We need market leaders, not appointed leaders.

If you want to lead, start leading. It's as simple as that. No one is going to tell you to lead. No one is going to appoint you to lead.

If you want to lead, start leading. Start putting your ideas into action, now. Don't wait for permission. Don't wait for consensus. You won't get it. You have to start by doing.

And if the market - us - believes your plan is sound, and believes that it will be successful, and if you show others how they can help, then they will join you, and you will be a leader.

EXACTLY! It's worked fine this way, and there are tangible results to prove that.

peacemonger
01-01-2008, 06:26 PM
Liberty requires that we all become comfortable with a little anarchy.

Leaders shall arise and lead at the appropriate times according to their merits. An organization that can survive and thrive with its basis centered around an idea of liberty is far more powerful in the long run than an organization that operates through democracy, consensus, or any other form of hierarchy.

WilliamC
01-01-2008, 06:29 PM
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FREEDOM AND ORGANIZED CHAOS!

And, I'm just talking about main national events........consolidate the great ideas...into one....and then have a MAIN EVENT!!! (What ever it is...)

Who is going to step up?

Currently there are too many cook in the kitchen!

To many chiefs and not enough warriors!

We need to organize all the meetups...all the ideas.......all the money bombs......HQ cannot organize the grassroots!

Do it. Find your strength and play to it. Seriously, find something you think is important enough to step up and take charge of.

Or simply donate more to those who already are. I notice no lack of chip-ins on the main forum page if you are already maxed out to the official campaign.

gb13
01-01-2008, 06:31 PM
I don't like it.

smartpeople4ronpaul
01-01-2008, 06:31 PM
Another BAD idea.

The grassroots is a marketplace. Good ideas succeed, bad ideas founder...

Asking all the Paulites to follow a "leader" -- is unworkable, and undesireable.

Huey

Yes. Although, SOMETIMES it might seem like a good idea to have an organized system., that's a bad idea. On these forums, everyone posts all of their ideas, and the good ones succeed, bad ones drop. One leader shouldn't decide which are good and which are bad.

Meiun
01-01-2008, 06:32 PM
Right. There are many businesses across the world now that run as a decentralized structure. The conventional CEO/COO/CFO kind of structure is falling by the wayside in this new economy.

The ONE THING that makes these businesses a success, or leads to their failure, is the strength of resolve in their collective vision!

The vision/mission/goal of the grassroots movement for Ron Paul is to restore Liberty, Peace and Prosperity to all Americans... there is no greater unifier than the cause of Freedom.

bucfish
01-01-2008, 06:33 PM
No we need to keep working on whatever cause we believe on in grassroots and give it our all. Each project has a leader and are more than willing to listen to new ideas. We are free to offer our support and ideas to them and this can only make things better.

happyphilter
01-01-2008, 06:35 PM
This was debated on very early in the grass roots movement(for you younger guys)
A leader or central control we found to be only holding us back. and its a bit late to change this now.

hopeforamerica
01-01-2008, 06:36 PM
No we need to keep working on whatever cause we believe on in grassroots and give it our all. Each project has a leader and are more than willing to listen to new ideas. We are free to offer our support and ideas to them and this can only make things better.

+1 and as my husband says, the good ideas float to the top and take off. The not so good ones die. That's all we need. Less whining and bitching would be nice too. Just pick your thing and do it!

Wyurm
01-01-2008, 06:37 PM
you must understand how this works. Nobody is assigned in the grassroots, if you are a good leader and have a good project to lead, you will have followers. If you aren't a good leader, you won't be followed. Leaders here actually lead, they are not appointed, there is no position for this. Please try to understand that the grassroots is run on the empowered model versus the hierarchy model.

This gives us flexability and ownership. What I find interesting is that this is taught in quite a few different universities, yet for some reason, this campaign has been the best example I've ever seen of this model in action. The company I work for tries to follow this model, but they haven't fully embraced it yet.

Finally, you can't herd cats.

Pharoah
01-01-2008, 06:40 PM
If you focus power in that hands of one guy or girl, then that person could become the target of slander / bribery / blackmail - whatever dirty tricks the nice guys behind the establishment can invent.

SeanEdwards
01-01-2008, 06:42 PM
We need better tools for organizing and disseminating information and ideas. We don't need centralized authority.

Oliver
01-01-2008, 06:47 PM
better coordination but not a leader

Comedy Gold! :D

austin356
01-01-2008, 06:56 PM
Leaders shall arise and lead at the appropriate times according to their merits. An organization that can survive and thrive with its basis centered around an idea of liberty is far more powerful in the long run than an organization that operates through democracy, consensus, or any other form of hierarchy.

we are not in this for the "long run" we are in this for 35 more days. Then its essentially over.


We dont need to build long term viability or consensus. We need to produce as much as possible in as little as time as possible.

ItsTime
01-01-2008, 06:57 PM
Win or Lose its not over then. It is just starting :D


we are not in this for the "long run" we are in this for 35 more days. Then its essentially over.


We dont need to build long term viability or consensus. We need to produce as much as possible in as little as time as possible.

Wyurm
01-01-2008, 06:59 PM
we are not in this for the "long run" we are in this for 35 more days. Then its essentially over.


We dont need to build long term viability or consensus. We need to produce as much as possible in as little as time as possible.

You have no faith or simply are not aware of how long a year is. We have until Nov. of this year. Don't be a quitter.

nc4rp
01-01-2008, 07:00 PM
well way to be an enthusiastic supporter with concepts!!

but if you want a 'grassroots' leader, look around you, here, meetups, yahoo groups, youtube, etc ad nauseum. find someones heart that shines true through a potential farce, follow them to sign waves, canvassing, making calls, writing letters, etc.

Or i know its hard, but you can go out and do all this yourself, the tools on how to do it can be found here: http://www.ronpaulreveres.com/canvassing

keep up the great enthusiasm!

austin356
01-01-2008, 07:06 PM
You have no faith or simply are not aware of how long a year is. We have until Nov. of this year. Don't be a quitter.


Again. We have 35 days to make or break.

Even if Paul wants an independent bid we have 35 days to make or break.

We have 35 days to have the chance to be in the September and October debates, whether as a Republican or Independent.


Anyone who thinks we can win without making a incredibly large mark within the next 35 days is delusional and goes back to my earlier point of Ron Paul supporters having little to no political experience let alone campaign experience.

hueylong
01-01-2008, 07:08 PM
The primary process goes into June. The front-loading of the process looks to have backfired.

We'll probably wake up Feb 6 and find that there is no 'front runner'.

Then, it'll be a long slog to the convention.

Huey

austin356
01-01-2008, 07:08 PM
Win or Lose its not over then. It is just starting :D


I agree but I think we should be worrying about what we are going to be doing then. We need to focus on now and now only.

austin356
01-01-2008, 07:13 PM
The primary process goes into June. The front-loading of the process looks to have backfired.

We'll probably wake up Feb 6 and find that there is no 'front runner'.

Then, it'll be a long slog to the convention.

Huey


That may well turn out to be the case. But if we do not win a majority before convention we lose. If you think the party regulars that are supporting Rudy, Mitt, Huckabee, McCain, and Thompson will not negotiate, deal and block the nomination of Paul you are crazy.


That being said, we may not be the absolute front runner after the 5th and still come out winning before the convention. But we have to be at minimum a front runner and have amassed a significant number of delegates on the 5th to be have any chance of such; thus bringing back the fact we make or break it in the next 35 days.

Oliver
01-01-2008, 07:14 PM
(let me assert again I am not saying I support the OP or am better experienced than the average person on here)

At least you sound reasonable. Some kind of
coordinator who is able to unite the trillion of
opinions in here would be nice - the anarchy
level surely isn't Dr. Paul's intention - nor does
it help his campaign.

Wyurm
01-01-2008, 07:15 PM
Again. We have 35 days to make or break.

Even if Paul wants an independent bid we have 35 days to make or break.

We have 35 days to have the chance to be in the September and October debates, whether as a Republican or Independent.


Anyone who thinks we can win without making a incredibly large mark within the next 35 days is delusional and goes back to my earlier point of Ron Paul supporters having little to no political experience let alone campaign experience.

You didn't say "make or break" in the above comment. I am in this until RP is in office. I'm not going to adopt a defeatist attitude and concentrate on all of this being over with. I'm working to get RP into the whitehouse, I hope you are doing that too and not just priming an ego about your political experience that you imply you have.

This organization has an undefined life-span. Putting a number on how long we have is a mistake. I say all this with the deepest intended respect, I just don't appreciate it when someone tries talking down to me because they didn't say what they ment to say.

Mark
01-02-2008, 03:01 AM
"Take me to your leader"

- All that needs to happen is HQ have someone with Ron's ear watch the board for good ideas and concerns. And it may already be.

"I'm free" - Most of what I do wouldn't be under the dictatorship of a "Committee" anyway.

parocks
01-02-2008, 03:17 AM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=71308


What do you think about this idea, which is a modification of the Grassroots Advisory Board? Called Grassroots / HQ Information Liasons?

CelestialRender
01-02-2008, 08:34 AM
No.

DjLoTi
01-02-2008, 08:39 AM
Since everyone keeps talking **** about the idea and keeps fighting the idea, and since we figure HQ isn't going to listen to us anyway, it is my understanding that we're not gonna keep going.

Therefore, I doubt it is going to happen.

GHoeberX
01-02-2008, 08:48 AM
Grassroots = throw in a thousand ideas and the best one will emerge. That's how Tea Party became a success.


Ron Paul is our leader :D Apart from that we don't need one central leader. Bryan is the forum leader, Trevor is the blimp leader etc. we are all our own leader.

Ron LOL
01-02-2008, 08:51 AM
All that needs to happen is HQ have someone with Ron's ear watch the board for good ideas and concerns. And it may already be.

As it turns out, you can post ideas that I agree with. :D

But seriously, it might also be a good idea to try to have a mechanism in place to focus the grassroots if only to avoid duplication of effort. But really, this could almost be done through sticky threads here at the forums.

The real coup would be a method for the forums to communicate with the meetup groups. Truly great idea IMO. Would really help us to get things done.

Joe3113
01-02-2008, 08:53 AM
Grassroots = throw in a thousand ideas and the best one will emerge. That's how Tea Party became a success.


Ron Paul is our leader :D Apart from that we don't need one central leader. Bryan is the forum leader, Trevor is the blimp leader etc. we are all our own leader.

Yep I agree. btw GHober, great job on the youtube videos.....you were on the front page for quite a long time

thoughtbombing
01-02-2008, 08:58 AM
Ron Paul is the leader of this grass roots movement!

TwiLeXia
01-02-2008, 09:03 AM
I posted this in another thread, thought it could be relevant here.

If this is a revolution, then the RP campaign should start acting like one. Not simply a regular campaign where you run some ads here and there (and of bad quality and taste) and expect the media to cover you.

And also I hope the RP campaign stops acting so "surprised" at the support they're getting. They know we have thousands here who are impassioned supporters, willing to dedicate thousands of hours and creative energy to the process.

There are thousands of ideas being posted on this forum. Few have made it to a real event, and even fewer have achieved success. That may be the market process, some say, but even extremely popular ideas (such as the New Year's Money Bomb) was not popularized and officially supported by the campaign, and that's probably why it failed.

I don't want to keep griefing on the campaign, and I'd much rather go out and talk to other people myself about RP. But I still think that the campaign should pick up the pace, and get in step with the rest of us supporters.

If this is truly a revolution, then we need not only a revolution leader (Ron Paul) but also a revolution organizer. People on this forum keep talking and talking about a grassroots leader, but that really isn't gonna happen. But it's obvious, isn't it, who should be the true grassroots leader?

The Campaign Staff themselves. They have to stop being "shocked" and "amazed" at the level of support they're getting, and instead step up and harness the power of passionate supporters. The one thing separating this campaign from others is passionate supporters. We not only care about Ron Paul but are willing to sacrifice money, time, and energy to promote his cause.

Campaign HQ, you must harness the power of your supporters. Don't act as if we're a separate identity, and that you have no control over us. That's not a revolution, that's anarchy. Grassroots is a tremendous concept, something idealized by most politicians and can only be dreamed of by others.

But in itself, it's not enough. The Founding Fathers didn't win the American Revolution by speaking from podium to podium about the evils of the British. Instead, they stepped up and mustered the spirit of the American people, and led them not only into war but into peace and glory.

And so, the RP campaign can't simply continue to boast about their grassroots or talk to news reporters about how "shocked" and "happy" they are about this "revolution." STOP acting like a normal campaign. If this is truly a revolution then make it one. Harness the power of your grassroots. Lead it.

Dan Klaus
01-02-2008, 09:06 AM
Central planning won't work....American culture is individualistic and collectivising the grassroots will only serve to destroy its positive features...we won WWII by our ability to improvise and leave control in the field as an example of why this wouldn't work....

LibertyEagle
01-02-2008, 09:06 AM
Grassroots = throw in a thousand ideas and the best one will emerge. That's how Tea Party became a success.


Ron Paul is our leader :D Apart from that we don't need one central leader. Bryan is the forum leader, Trevor is the blimp leader etc. we are all our own leader.

GHoeberX, I love your videos, but you are mischaracterizing what DJLoti, et al. were trying to do. They were not attempting to establish themselves as leaders of the grassroots. I think the misunderstanding came about because the name that was given the group was misleading. That's easy to fix.

Right now, we know there's a lack of information between the campaign and us and vice versa. I also know there are some concerns about what seems to be going on/not going on with various issues. For example, getting on the ballot and obtaining delegates. And while the "board" or whatever it ends up being called, is in its infancy, I welcome something that might resolve some of the problems.

LibertyEagle
01-02-2008, 09:08 AM
Central planning won't work....American culture is individualistic and collectivising the grassroots will only serve to destroy its positive features...we won WWII by our ability to improvise and leave control in the field as an example of why this wouldn't work....

It was NOT Central Planning!! It was a group of people who were joining together in an attempt to resolve some problems.

Geez, people! Are you now saying that they do not have the right to freely associate? :rolleyes:

EotS
01-02-2008, 09:09 AM
Those of you arguing for more central "leadership" - I assume you've been recently "bit" by the freedom bug, inspired by Ron Paul.

You've got your start - you're interested. But you don't understand the philosophical basis for freedom. You're addicted to central planning and control, as much as you don't want to admit it. You can't understand how anything can work without it.

Freedom is messy - all kinds of disparate elements going about their business, acting in their self interest. They form coalitions, take on activities, and leave / form new coalitions and activities constantly, to maintain their own interests.

Order emerges spontaneously, at the LOCAL level.

Top-down central "order" is the antithesis of freedom. And as Ron Paul keeps telling you - IT DOESN'T WORK. This campaign raised $20M last quarter. But probably another $50M worth of activity was generated by small coalitions of people acting at the local level.

It is active, dynamic, and it's kicking the asses of all the "managed" campaigns in its aim of getting the message out.

If we fail, it won't be for lack of "organization." It will be because people are not ready for freedom. They'll have to experience more pain, let us slide further into tyranny, before they wake up.

pcosmar
01-02-2008, 09:10 AM
The way to BE is to DO.
Get busy, if others follow you, then you are the leader.
If you follow some one else, then they are your leader.
Just go do.

micahnelson
01-02-2008, 09:15 AM
We should probably stop thinking of this as a single monolithic unit, but as a diverse marketplace with similar goals desiring a single outcome.

For example, everyone needs to eat. Anyone is free to start a restaurant that will cater to peoples needs- financial, convenience, style, quality. A few industry leaders emerge due to broad market appeal, but with enough competition to keep them all on their toes.

In our case, everyone is looking to get Ron Paul elected. Anyone is free to start a project that will satisfy peoples needs within their budget, expertise, level of commitment, and style. Some leaders have emerged from successful projects such as the forums and the money bombs. Others cover a more niche market like the $PeopleGroup for Ron Paul.

Right now we have a difficult starting point with cynical people and a fast moving forum. This is beneficial. In order to thrive the idea must be simple, unique, and effective. It must be led by someone who isn't afraid to push the issue and be tenacious. As trolly as you guys can be at times, it does weed out the weak of heart.

If we vested power in the hands of any specific group or person, the good ideas would lose their ability to grow. It is the same as giving a monopoly to a business.

dshields
01-02-2008, 09:17 AM
Those of you arguing for more central "leadership" - I assume you've been recently "bit" by the freedom bug, inspired by Ron Paul.

You've got your start - you're interested. But you don't understand the philosophical basis for freedom. You're addicted to central planning and control, as much as you don't want to admit it. You can't understand how anything can work without it.

Freedom is messy - all kinds of disparate elements going about their business, acting in their self interest. They form coalitions, take on activities, and leave / form new coalitions and activities constantly, to maintain their own interests.

Order emerges spontaneously, at the LOCAL level.

Top-down central "order" is the antithesis of freedom. And as Ron Paul keeps telling you - IT DOESN'T WORK. This campaign raised $20M last quarter. But probably another $50M worth of activity was generated by small coalitions of people acting at the local level.

It is active, dynamic, and it's kicking the asses of all the "managed" campaigns in its aim of getting the message out.

If we fail, it won't be for lack of "organization." It will be because people are not ready for freedom. They'll have to experience more pain, let us slide further into tyranny, before they wake up.

+1

Ron Paul Fan
01-02-2008, 09:18 AM
According to the poll in Hot Topics, 80% of the population are AGAINST the Grassroots Advisory Board. 80% of Americans are AGAINST central planning. 80% are against a MASSIVE bureaucracy. I'm happy that 80% gets it. I said earlier in the thread that we're all leaders. All we have to do is step up, promote a project, and people will get behind it if it's good. November the 5th, The Tea Party, and The Blimp are examples of good projects that people got behind. The Grassroots Advisory Board is an example of a bad project that the people vehemently opposed. That's the free market at work my friends. The founders of the secret advisory board that has recently been abolished left the forum in shame. They could not take the heat. They were incapable of tweaking their idea and making it more attractive. They just gave up like Fred Thompson in New Hampshire. I'm telling you all now, DON'T BE LIKE THESE QUITTERS! NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!! NEVER sell out your SMALL GOVERNMENT principles! NEVER STOP FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!

TwiLeXia
01-02-2008, 09:21 AM
Those of you arguing for more central "leadership" - I assume you've been recently "bit" by the freedom bug, inspired by Ron Paul.

You've got your start - you're interested. But you don't understand the philosophical basis for freedom. You're addicted to central planning and control, as much as you don't want to admit it. You can't understand how anything can work without it.

Freedom is messy - all kinds of disparate elements going about their business, acting in their self interest. They form coalitions, take on activities, and leave / form new coalitions and activities constantly, to maintain their own interests.

Order emerges spontaneously, at the LOCAL level.

Top-down central "order" is the antithesis of freedom. And as Ron Paul keeps telling you - IT DOESN'T WORK. This campaign raised $20M last quarter. But probably another $50M worth of activity was generated by small coalitions of people acting at the local level.

It is active, dynamic, and it's kicking the asses of all the "managed" campaigns in its aim of getting the message out.

If we fail, it won't be for lack of "organization." It will be because people are not ready for freedom. They'll have to experience more pain, let us slide further into tyranny, before they wake up.

Top-down central order is certainly not the antithesis of freedom. Ron Paul doesn't force us to follow him. We have the freedom and the choice to follow him.

You can't compare top-down central order to tyranny and the elimination of freedom. For example, you can't win a football game without a captain, a coach, or a quarterback. You can't prosper in your business without a CEO and executive board. You can't win a war without captains and generals.

In the ideal world, everyone will join together and agree on everything and play their exact role. But that's not possible.

But our freedom is not being eliminated simply because someone leads us. The difference between a revolution and a tyranny is that participants willingly join a revolution. Our freedom is still intact.

Anarchy doesn't work. Freedom is the base for grassroots, but to create the entire body we need leadership.

LibertyEagle
01-02-2008, 09:25 AM
According to the poll in Hot Topics, 80% of the population are AGAINST the Grassroots Advisory Board. 80% of Americans are AGAINST central planning. 80% are against a MASSIVE bureaucracy. I'm happy that 80% gets it. I said earlier in the thread that we're all leaders. All we have to do is step up, promote a project, and people will get behind it if it's good. November the 5th, The Tea Party, and The Blimp are examples of good projects that people got behind. The Grassroots Advisory Board is an example of a bad project that the people vehemently opposed. That's the free market at work my friends. The founders of the secret advisory board that has recently been abolished left the forum in shame. They could not take the heat. They were incapable of tweaking their idea and making it more attractive. They just gave up like Fred Thompson in New Hampshire. I'm telling you all now, DON'T BE LIKE THESE QUITTERS! NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!! NEVER sell out your SMALL GOVERNMENT principles! NEVER STOP FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!

I do not agree with mob rule (democracy).

These guys have the right to freely associate and to go forward with their plan. If you, and 80% of the others on this forum do not want to participate, that is also your right. But to try to arm twist to stop the few from exercising their own rights is nothing but bullying and has a lot in common with collectivism. Yes, the same thing that so many here rail against, but apparently have no idea what that means.

The "board" was not secret. There have been posts on it before. I have said before, that I think the naming of this "board" is terribly flawed. In fact, I think that is where most of the misperception came from. It needs to be made clear that they are representing no one but themselves, nor are they advising the grassroots. I don't think they intended anything else.

GHoeberX
01-02-2008, 09:26 AM
GHoeberX, I love your videos, but you are mischaracterizing what DJLoti, et al. were trying to do. They were not attempting to establish themselves as leaders of the grassroots. I think the misunderstanding came about because the name that was given the group was misleading. That's easy to fix.

Right now, we know there's a lack of information between the campaign and us and vice versa. I also know there are some concerns about what seems to be going on/not going on with various issues. For example, getting on the ballot and obtaining delegates. And while the "board" or whatever it ends up being called, is in its infancy, I welcome something that might resolve some of the problems.

I'm sorry I didn't read the full topic, but I don't understand your post. :confused:

I just read some of the first posts and I don't know who DJLoti is. I don't even know about the claim of someone "attempting to establish them as leader"; I guess I should read more forumtopics. :D

I just wanted to say that I think we don't need a grassroot leader and I don't know anything of the context you just mentioned, so I was certainly not mischaracterizing anyone.

hypnagogue
01-02-2008, 09:31 AM
Let our philosophy be our leadership. Together we build the principles and practices of liberty. Together we are the movement. It is natural that as time passes one face or another becomes a focus, but all will pass the torch. I do not follow Ron Paul, I support him. We are his strength. When he is too tired to bear the banner of our revolution another will take it up. Any one of us could be chosen by fate. Within each of us the entirety of our way of life resides.

maeqFREEDOMfree
01-02-2008, 09:36 AM
sheep need shepherds... free men are not sheep

LibertyEagle
01-02-2008, 09:39 AM
I'm sorry I didn't read the full topic, but I don't understand your post. :confused:

I just read some of the first posts and I don't know who DJLoti is. I don't even know about the claim of someone "attempting to establish them as leader"; I guess I should read more forumtopics. :D

I just wanted to say that I think we don't need a grassroot leader and I don't know anything of the context you just mentioned, so I was certainly not mischaracterizing anyone.

Hi.

DJLoti is the guy who started Ron Paul Radio. ALL BY HIMSELF.

They weren't trying to establish themselves as leaders. They fell into the same quicksand that the campaign often does. The name they gave the group made people think that they were establishing themselves as some kind of central grassroots control. That is not my understanding of what they intended to portray. It's just a bunch of people who freely decided to associate to improve communications between the grassroots and the campaign, but also to hopefully, resolve some issues. Think about the crises that we have been seeing in obtaining signatures for getting on the ballot. This same crisis keeps being repeated in state, after state, after state. It sure is going to be a problem, if we don't get on some of these ballots, don't you think? I wonder what the people on this forum will be saying then? I, for one, would like to at least ATTEMPT to rectify these things that we know are problems, before they totally blow up in our faces.

Again, this "board" is suffering from a perception problem, before they even got started. They need to repackage it, so that it is clear they are not implying they are representing the entire grassroots, nor are they trying to advise the grassroots. It is just bad naming.

I hope they proceed.

Dan Klaus
01-02-2008, 09:41 AM
It was NOT Central Planning!! It was a group of people who were joining together in an attempt to resolve some problems.

Geez, people! Are you now saying that they do not have the right to freely associate?

Think you misunderstood my post...let me clarify..I am saying that organizing the grassroots under one leader is not a good idea..

the suggestion by the orginal poster that we organize money bombs, meetups, etc just isn't in line with an individualistic culture..IMO..

LibertyEagle
01-02-2008, 09:44 AM
sheep need shepherds... free men are not sheep

Well, you go tell that to the different Secretary's of State, when we do not get on the ballot in various states. Let's see how far that gets you.:rolleyes:

Note: It is also necessary for "free men" to choose to work together at times, to achieve mutual goals.

LibertyEagle
01-02-2008, 09:46 AM
Think you misunderstood my post...let me clarify..I am saying that organizing the grassroots under one leader is not a good idea..

the suggestion by the orginal poster that we organize money bombs, meetups, etc just isn't in line with an individualistic culture..IMO..

Yes, I understood you. But, what I think you are not understanding is that your characterization is not what the group was intending. Nor, would they be successful in doing so.

c0unterph0bia
01-02-2008, 09:49 AM
I could understand trying a leader if what we had wasn't working. I say if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it!

ronpaulhawaii
01-02-2008, 09:56 AM
K, you guys find your leader, I'll keep doing shit on my own.

+1


Don't waste time on creating a bureaucracy just keep your eyes on the prize. Besides given the close proximity of the primaries most folks should be spending less time on the internet and more time outside of the house.

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000...



Nothing wrong with leaders, but it works on the principles of spontaneous order. If there is someone that you think it worthy of being a leader, follow them. Others may if they feel it's a benefit too. Others will do as Aravoth points out.

But really, we already have this on a project by project basis- some people lead them, others help, chip-in, etc. Works well. :)

+1


Hi. I'm your new leader. Everyone do what I tell you to or I'm gonna call you a traitor to the movement and have you banned from the revolution.
And since I'm the new leader, I should be paid well. And chicks. I want chicks to hang all over me giving me sweet leader love.
And a boat. Leader needs to coast the waves for the revolution. And a funny hat. Gimme one of those, too.
Now do what I say or I'll.....THUNK!!!! (sound of grassroots kicking me in the nuts)

ummm, nevermind. I'll go back to work now and start converting people to Ron Paul.

LOL:)



...
Finally, you can't herd cats.

+1


we are not in this for the "long run" we are in this for 35 more days. Then its essentially over.


We dont need to build long term viability or consensus. We need to produce as much as possible in as little as time as possible.

I shudder when I see people who think RP is the end all be all of this movement. I, for one, am in this for the long haul, way past this election cycle and as long as it takes to get this nation back on track.

We, as a nation, have been misled, we have allowed apathy to guide us and now find ourselves on a crappy trail leading into a dark wood. Fortunately we can still see the shining rail our founders laid, by following the direction RP is pointing out. We will have to bushwhack through the briars to reach that track and that may take years. RP has pointed us in the right direction, but WE have to get ourselves back. This may take 35 YEARS, but the alternative is unacceptable, to me.

And cat herders make me laugh, most are big talk, little action; time wasters and a distraction. Meanwhile, I'll just keep hacking away at the undergrowth in my way. Lead if you can, follow if you must, but stand clear of the people swinging the axes.

m

evandi
01-02-2008, 09:57 AM
Top-down central order is certainly not the antithesis of freedom. Ron Paul doesn't force us to follow him. We have the freedom and the choice to follow him.

You can't compare top-down central order to tyranny and the elimination of freedom. For example, you can't win a football game without a captain, a coach, or a quarterback. You can't prosper in your business without a CEO and executive board. You can't win a war without captains and generals.

In the ideal world, everyone will join together and agree on everything and play their exact role. But that's not possible.

But our freedom is not being eliminated simply because someone leads us. The difference between a revolution and a tyranny is that participants willingly join a revolution. Our freedom is still intact.

Anarchy doesn't work. Freedom is the base for grassroots, but to create the entire body we need leadership.

CEO's and an executive board are not at all necessary for a business to survive. It just happens to be how a corporation works. Corporations are created by the government but are not the only way a business might run.

Generally in a free market everybody is out to get money. The guys in charge want money just as much as the common worker. That is not the same as this.

In a free market everybody wants themselves to get money. In this everybody wants Ron Paul elected. In a workplace everybody really wants different things. In an "organization" such as this everybody wants the same thing.

dshields
01-02-2008, 10:00 AM
Hi.

DJLoti is the guy who started Ron Paul Radio. ALL BY HIMSELF.

They weren't trying to establish themselves as leaders. They fell into the same quicksand that the campaign often does. The name they gave the group made people think that they were establishing themselves as some kind of central grassroots control. That is not my understanding of what they intended to portray. It's just a bunch of people who freely decided to associate to improve communications between the grassroots and the campaign, but also to hopefully, resolve some issues. Think about the crises that we have been seeing in obtaining signatures for getting on the ballot. This same crisis keeps being repeated in state, after state, after state. It sure is going to be a problem, if we don't get on some of these ballots, don't you think? I wonder what the people on this forum will be saying then? I, for one, would like to at least ATTEMPT to rectify these things that we know are problems, before they totally blow up in our faces.

Again, this "board" is suffering from a perception problem, before they even got started. They need to repackage it, so that it is clear they are not implying they are representing the entire grassroots, nor are they trying to advise the grassroots. It is just bad naming.

I hope they proceed.

I hope you can appreciate our skepticism of anything resembling a governing body. Especially when we are all here because we want less government in our lives. I am encouraged that people just didn't role over and take the first pass at this and questioned it.

Remember, people here are educated, you can't just post a half page "Grassroots Advisory Board" notice and expect people to accept it without further explanation and/or debate.

The EASY acceptance and lack of debate in our society has gotten us the government we have today. With that being said and as I just mentioned, I am very encouraged that people wanted to debate this.

There is nothing wrong with an idea just sometimes it needs to be poked and prodded before people will accept it on principle and in most instances not in it's original form. If the idea has merit it will survive and make it to the next level.

Dave

Proemio
01-02-2008, 10:06 AM
K, you guys find your leader, I'll keep doing shit on my own.

And fantastic 'shit' too!

That makes at least 2 (and a few hundred thousand) of us, who don't "get it" that free doesn't mean free.

"If it's formally organized, it is infiltrated>corrupted>neutralized" - a historical fact.

Ron Paul Fan
01-02-2008, 10:07 AM
I do not agree with mob rule (democracy).

These guys have the right to freely associate and to go forward with their plan. If you, and 80% of the others on this forum do not want to participate, that is also your right. But to try to arm twist to stop the few from exercising their own rights is nothing but bullying and has a lot in common with collectivism. Yes, the same thing that so many here rail against, but apparently have no idea what that means.

The "board" was not secret. There have been posts on it before. I have said before, that I think the naming of this "board" is terribly flawed. In fact, I think that is where most of the misperception came from. It needs to be made clear that they are representing no one but themselves, nor are they advising the grassroots. I don't think they intended anything else.

And don't we have the right to freely criticize the idea if we think that it's a bad one? People did so about November 5th because of the Guy Fawkes connection. People did so about the blimp because it cost a lot of money. Did the organizers of those events cry and give up? No, they made changes and got enough people behind their ideas to make them thrive! You're critical of a lot of ideas around here, but nobody accuses you of bullying or being a collectivist. Who's arm twisting here? They can still promote their idea or come back and make it more appealing to the forum. Who's stopping them? Remember that patriotism is more closely linked to dissent than it is to conformity and a blind desire for safety and security.

dshields
01-02-2008, 10:08 AM
+1

I shudder when I see people who think RP is the end all be all of this movement. I, for one, am in this for the long haul, way past this election cycle and as long as it takes to get this nation back on track.

We, as a nation, have been misled, we have allowed apathy to guide us and now find ourselves on a crappy trail leading into a dark wood. Fortunately we can still see the shining rail our founders laid, by following the direction RP is pointing out. We will have to bushwhack through the briars to reach that track and that may take years. RP has pointed us in the right direction, but WE have to get ourselves back. This may take 35 YEARS, but the alternative is unacceptable, to me.

And cat herders make me laugh, most are big talk, little action; time wasters and a distraction. Meanwhile, I'll just keep hacking away at the undergrowth in my way. Lead if you can, follow if you must, but stand clear of the men swinging the axes.

m

AMEN my brother in Liberty!

We stand together on principle, yet we travel our separate roads and stand together at the end.

This is just the beginning. Congress, Senate, and local government ALL needs to change.

Dave

Paulbot_9876
01-02-2008, 10:11 AM
the only thing we should really do is to vote on money bomb days and make it official....this will clear up all the confusion of what day the money bomb will be.......all other issues are individuals choices......

evandi
01-02-2008, 10:14 AM
the only thing we should really do is to vote on money bomb days and make it official....this will clear up all the confusion of what day the money bomb will be.......all other issues are individuals choices......

And I'm saying it can't be official even if you vote on it like that.

Those who vote against a majority idea aren't agreeing that it is "official".

Official grassroots is an oxymoron anyway. THIS BOARD DOES NOT CONSIST OF EVERYBODY IN THE FREAKIN WORLD WHO MIGHT SUPPORT RON PAUL.

It is dishonest and counterproductive to think otherwise.

Proemio
01-02-2008, 10:27 AM
the only thing we should really do is to vote on money bomb days and make it official....this will clear up all the confusion of what day the money bomb will be.......all other issues are individuals choices......

Money bombs are also "other issues" and individual choices.
One individual floats an idea, and depending on merit, none, a few, many or most will make an idividual choice to support it - simple.

aknappjr
01-02-2008, 10:38 AM
Ron Paul is the leader of the grassroots. See his website and his advertisements for the messages you should be telling people.