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aspiringconstitutionalist
01-01-2008, 03:03 PM
Is there a list or a chart somewhere that rates all the past US Presidents on how well they've adhered to the Constitution?

yongrel
01-01-2008, 03:04 PM
Calvin Coolidge would be up towards the top, I think.

Matt Collins
01-01-2008, 03:50 PM
Jefferson probably.

aspiringconstitutionalist
01-01-2008, 04:05 PM
Jefferson probably.

'Cept for that Louisiana Purchase thing. :p

I've heard alot of people say Andrew Jackson was the most Constitutionalist president. I haven't done much research on him, but I've read a lot of his writings and sayings and he's very Ron Paul-ish in the things he said about Constitutional powers. Jackson's inaugural addresses read like Ron Paul stump speeches, lol...

DJ RP
01-01-2008, 04:10 PM
'Cept for that Louisiana Purchase thing. :p

I've heard alot of people say Andrew Jackson was the most Constitutionalist president. I haven't done much research on him, but I've read a lot of his writings and sayings and he's very Ron Paul-ish in the things he said about Constitutional powers. Jackson's inaugural addresses read like Ron Paul stump speeches, lol...

He got rid of the central bank which was a pretty awesome achievement!

CoreyBowen999
01-01-2008, 04:12 PM
He got rid of the central bank which was a pretty awesome achievement!

Yea. He was awesome.:)

AParadigmShift
01-01-2008, 04:22 PM
Hands down, Grover Cleveland. A man possesed of rare constitutional integrity (a sparse trait in post-'Civil' War presidents)

http://www.mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1129

jasonjasonjason1
01-01-2008, 04:24 PM
George W. Bu-

No, that's not even funny.
It's just sad.

:(

katao
01-01-2008, 04:28 PM
I suggest the very good book, Reassessing the Presidency. One of the articles in has a great study ranking the Presidents by size of government and inflation considerations (they only used objective criteria, which obviously does not account for many other valid arguments such as Washington's precedence making in voluntarily giving up power or Lincoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus - hehe, which would have made Lincoln even further in last place.) Here is their rankings:

1. J.Q. Adams
2. Jefferson
3. Taylor
4. J. Adams
4. Coolidge
6. Buchanan
7. Fillmore
8. Jackson
9. Grant
9. Cleveland
11. Tyler
12. A. Johnson
12. Mckinley
12. Eisenhower
15. Arthur
16. Van Buren
17. B. Harrison
17. T. Roosevelt
19. Truman
20. Taft
21. Monroe
22. Madison
23. Washington
24. Clinton
25. Hayes
26. Kennedy
27. Pierce
28. Harding
29. Polk
30. Nixon
31. Reagan
32. L. Johnson
33. F. Roosevelt
34. G.H.W. Bush
35. Ford
35. Carter
37. Wilson
38. Hoover
39. Lincoln

Now compare the rankings of Mainstream "Experts":
(notice the near inverse relationship!)
1. Lincoln
2. F. Roosevelt
3. Washington
4. Jefferson
5. T. Roosevelt
6. Wilson
7. Jackson
8. Truman
9. Eisenhower
10. Polk
11. L. Johnson
12. J. Adams
13. Madison
14. Kennedy
15. Monroe
16. Cleveland
16. McKinley
18. J.Q. Adams
19. Van Buren
19. Taft
21. Hoover
21. G.H.W. Bush
23. Hayes
23. Clinton
25. Carter
26. Ford
27. Arthur
28. Reagan
29. B. Harrison
30. Taylor
31. Tyler
31. Pierce
33. Coolidge
34. Fillmore
35. A. Johnson
36. Nixon
37. Grant
38. Buchanan
39. Harding

katao
01-01-2008, 04:37 PM
Also in the book is a superb chapter on Jefferson, which should be required reading for Dr. Paul after he is elected but before taking office. It describes Jefferson's failures to implement what he truly believed and exactly why. Mostly it boiled down to trying too hard to get consensus from the House and Senate, rather than using his Presidential powers to implement structural impediments to future growth and abuses of government.

Ron Paul Fan
01-01-2008, 04:40 PM
For all of you Andy Jackson fans, I saw that there's a PBS special on him tomorrow at 9 PM ET. Andrew Jackson: Good, Evil, and the Presidency. Not sure if it'll be good or not, but it might be worth tuning into if you like that kind of stuff. I agree on Lincoln and FDR! Terrible Presidents!

gravesdav
01-01-2008, 04:41 PM
One of my favs in Cleveland

cswake
01-01-2008, 04:50 PM
Also in the book is a superb chapter on Jefferson
What is the book?

katao
01-01-2008, 04:56 PM
Some other good resources:

Robert Higgs:
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=141&sortorder=authorlast

Wikipedia article - good for lots of other rankings based on polls, etc. that show how our public school education has brainwashed us: (note that the libertarian rankings there are based on the same article I posted earlier, but uses a slightly different variant where deflation is considered good, whereas I prefer the ranking that shows a preference for inflation at 0%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents

katao
01-01-2008, 04:59 PM
What is the book?

Sorry, the same book as the rankings come from - Reassessing the Presidency, with great articles by DeRosa, DiLorenzo, Thomas Woods, Denson, and others... (published by Mises Institute).

ChristopherJ
01-01-2008, 05:58 PM
Sorry, the same book as the rankings come from - Reassessing the Presidency, with great articles by DeRosa, DiLorenzo, Thomas Woods, Denson, and others... (published by Mises Institute).

Hey thanks!! If anyone is interested you can download the PDF book from Mises.

http://www.mises.org/Books/reassessingpresidency.pdf

hawks4ronpaul
01-01-2008, 06:21 PM
Generally, the more that you violate your oath of office/destroy the Constitution, the higher that historians/textbooks rate you.


http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

katao
01-01-2008, 06:23 PM
Generally, the more that you violate your oath of office/destroy the Constitution, the higher that historians/textbooks rate you.

I would add: OR lead the nation into war...

hawks4ronpaul
01-01-2008, 06:24 PM
I would add: OR lead the nation into war...

Yes, you get bonus points for that.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

foofighter20x
01-01-2008, 06:26 PM
'Cept for that Louisiana Purchase thing. :p

I've heard alot of people say Andrew Jackson was the most Constitutionalist president. I haven't done much research on him, but I've read a lot of his writings and sayings and he's very Ron Paul-ish in the things he said about Constitutional powers. Jackson's inaugural addresses read like Ron Paul stump speeches, lol...

I wonder why people claim the Louisianna Purchase was illegal...

The Constitution specifically gives the President authority to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate.

Jefferson negotiated the treaty for the purchase, and the Senate approved it. How is that unconstitutional?

I know that members in the House gripped about having to tax the people to pay for it, but it was a legally incurred debt that had to be paid to France.

ChickenHawk
01-01-2008, 06:33 PM
I am curious what people here think of Jefferson going to war with the Barbary states. It could be argued that he went to war with a country that never attacked us and without a declaration much like Iraq.

foofighter20x
01-01-2008, 06:46 PM
I am curious what people here think of Jefferson going to war with the Barbary states. It could be argued that he went to war with a country that never attacked us and without a declaration much like Iraq.

The Barbary States attacked our ships first, so Jefferson was justified in defending the U.S.

katao
01-01-2008, 06:48 PM
I wonder why people claim the Louisianna Purchase was illegal...

The Constitution specifically gives the President authority to make treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate.

Jefferson negotiated the treaty for the purchase, and the Senate approved it. How is that unconstitutional?

I know that members in the House gripped about having to tax the people to pay for it, but it was a legally incurred debt that had to be paid to France.

Jefferson believed that he needed an Amendment to authorize it, and actually created one, but his cabinet disagreed. Jefferson wrote :

"The general government has no powers but such as the constitution has given it; and it has not given it a power of holding foreign territory and still less of incorporating it into the Union".

But Jefferson was worried that Napolean would change his mind if there was a delay, and Jefferson thought the deal so important (in peacefully protecting the U.S. from further wars) that he succumbed to his party's wishes.

ChickenHawk
01-01-2008, 06:52 PM
The Barbary States attacked our ships first, so Jefferson was justified in defending the U.S.


It is my understanding that the Barbary States attacked merchant ships. Going to war could then be considered defending corporate interests not the United States. Even if that is wrong there was no formal declaration of war just congressional authorization.

I'm no expert on this subject I just think some of the similarities between then and now are interesting.

No1ButPaul08
01-01-2008, 07:02 PM
Ron Paul has a picture of one politician in his office. Grover Cleveland

From wikipedia:
Once Cleveland told a friend that his principal duty and greatest service to the country was in preventing Congress from enacting bad bills. He also felt that if the constitution did not authorize it, he could not in good faith sign a bill into law.

foofighter20x
01-01-2008, 07:44 PM
Jefferson believed that he needed an Amendment to authorize it, and actually created one, but his cabinet disagreed. Jefferson wrote :

"The general government has no powers but such as the constitution has given it; and it has not given it a power of holding foreign territory and still less of incorporating it into the Union".

But Jefferson was worried that Napolean would change his mind if there was a delay, and Jefferson thought the deal so important (in peacefully protecting the U.S. from further wars) that he succumbed to his party's wishes.

He must not have read the part about making treaties, then. :p

foofighter20x
01-01-2008, 07:52 PM
It is my understanding that the Barbary States attacked merchant ships. Going to war could then be considered defending corporate interests not the United States. Even if that is wrong there was no formal declaration of war just congressional authorization.

I'm no expert on this subject I just think some of the similarities between then and now are interesting.

The Bashaw sort of informally declared war on the United States.

And I think the capture and enslavement of U.S. sailors (i.e. citizens) kind of justified the use of force in freeing them.

nate895
01-01-2008, 07:55 PM
It is my understanding that the Barbary States attacked merchant ships. Going to war could then be considered defending corporate interests not the United States. Even if that is wrong there was no formal declaration of war just congressional authorization.

I'm no expert on this subject I just think some of the similarities between then and now are interesting.

Back then most shipping operations (in the US) were family operations. That and they were run out of New England, which doesn't exactly make the Virginian Thomas Jefferson more likely to send ships out to go after them.

Matt Collins
01-01-2008, 08:28 PM
I am curious what people here think of Jefferson going to war with the Barbary states. It could be argued that he went to war with a country that never attacked us and without a declaration much like Iraq.

SEE THIS TREAD:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=775508