Paper voting proof now?

[Man from La Mancha]

I have question I hope someone can answer.

If all Ron Paul voters in the USA used absentee ballots with copies and had them notarized wouldn't that back up our vote in case of fraud?

The voting process is supposed to be anonymous but like the Founding Fathers I'm willing to put all the line.

[LibertyEagle]

Sounds like it. Thing is, how would we convince every single person voting for Ron Paul to do this?

What I don't understand, is why we aren't all taking the ball in our own hands and trying to get the voting machines thrown out in our own counties, right now? We don't need some magical leader to get this done. There are plenty of organizations out there that have some pretty good proof of funny business with these voting machines. What's stopping us from choosing a couple of these studies and heading on out to see our County Clerks? At least in my county, that is who I've been told to contact.

[Cindy]

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

This site is a good place to start. There is a link for getting on an e-mail list that can keep you updated on how you can take action.

At the bottom of the forums page, there are links for each state. There, you can also find groups in your state working on this to work with.

[richard1984]

This probably isn't the place to discuss this (so don't feel obliged to answer or get into to this here), but I've never voted before. I fully intended to vote last year, but I forgot that I moved my registration from Maryville to Knoxville my Freshman year of college (a few years ago), so I wasn't able to. My girlfriend/fiancée was able to vote, though. From what I understand, you walk into the booth and push the button next to the name of the person you are voting for. As far as I know, there is no "receipt" or "proof-of-vote" or other sort of hard, paper documentation.

So how does/can this work? Is voting really (for the most part) just straight-up electronic these days? That seems so insane!
Is there any way to request some sort of official documentation of the vote you placed? Can we request to use paper ballots?

And if not...what's going on in our country?! Electronic voting seems like a very obvious no-no. You know?

What do I do?

(I know the primaries and the election are still a while away, but still.)

[ChrisM]

If your state allows open absentee voting, then you could go and get an absentee ballot as those are paper. The risk I see is not with anonymity, but rather with the status of the vote itself. Absentee ballots don't all have to be counted.

[Man from La Mancha]

Sounds like it. Thing is, how would we convince every single person voting for Ron Paul to do this?

What I don't understand, is why we aren't all taking the ball in our own hands and trying to get the voting machines thrown out in our own counties, right now? We don't need some magical leader to get this done. There are plenty of organizations out there that have some pretty good proof of funny business with these voting machines. What's stopping us from choosing a couple of these studies and heading on out to see our County Clerks? At least in my county, that is who I've been told to contact.

I think that this truth would be self evident that all Ron Paul voters are so into freedom they would have no objections to proving their vote if the system won't change. Unlike the wimps of Gore and Kerry which were just staged puppets to keep anybody out of the race. Ron will contest a bad vote and all these notarized mail in ballets would make good proof, I think. That is why I'm asking.

[WannaBfree]

La Mancha - Thanks for keeping the issue of voter fraud in the public's consciousness with your sig line and thread.

Some info on election fraud:

BBC Newsnight - Greg Palast - Bush election fraud
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2387698570177187417

Rigged USA Elections Exposed (computer programmer's testimony)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615703918066275099

[Man from La Mancha]

La Mancha - Thanks for keeping the issue of voter fraud in the public's consciousness with your sig line and thread.

Some info on election fraud:

BBC Newsnight - Greg Palast - Bush election fraud
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2387698570177187417

Rigged USA Elections Exposed (computer programmer's testimony)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615703918066275099

thanks. I feel so strongly that is the most important issue out there with out a honest vote nothing matters.

We will shortly see whats going to happen when we start seeing these straw votes and the first primaries. Maybe then people will get upset enough to do something about it.

[LibertyEagle]

I repeat again....


What I don't understand, is why we aren't all taking the ball in our own hands and trying to get the voting machines thrown out in our own counties, right now? We don't need some magical leader to get this done. There are plenty of organizations out there that have some pretty good proof of funny business with these voting machines. What's stopping us from choosing a couple of these studies and heading on out to see our County Clerks? At least in my county, that is who I've been told to contact.

Or, do we just want to sit around and complain about it, after the fact?

[WannaBfree]

I repeat again....



Or, do we just want to sit around and complain about it, after the fact?

I don't think most people are even aware of it. The more who are, the better. I hope all RP supporters will be aware of it by the elections, as something like this can be used against us. I do remember in 2004 there were actions taken against "no paper trail" without much support.

[njandrewg]

regarding absentee voting ballots...aren't those not even counted, unless its EXTREMELY close?

[LibertyEagle]

I don't think most people are even aware of it. The more who are, the better. I hope all RP supporters will be aware of it by the elections, as something like this can be used against us. I do remember in 2004 there were actions taken against "no paper trail" without much support.

It doesn't matter if most people are aware of it. There appear to be enough documented facts that if we truly wanted to get these voting machines kicked out of our counties, WE could do it. It doesn't require a mass awakening. If each of us here on this forum would go see what they could do about it in our own counties, we would have really done something.

Why wait around?

[Man from La Mancha]

The Precinct Strategy is a simple strategy, eminently do-able. It is designed Everyday Americans, like you and me, with a time commitment of between 5 and 30 hours per year. (To read about the entire plan and join your influence to that of other Americans in this realistic action plan, go to www.networkamerica.org .) The Precinct Meetings take place in each county -- in your county -- around February to May of the even years (i.e., May, 2008). It is at these countywide precinct organizational meetings that the parties in power (almost always the local Democrat and Republican parties) choose their local party leaders. These local party leaders determine (almost always) who are the candidates on the ballot in November, i.e., pick the candidate who will be elected to office in November. And then those elected go to city hall, to the state capital, or to Washington D.C. to make the laws. And those who make the laws largely determine your country's future. Back to the precinct system where it all begins: these local party leaders also determine how the votes will be counted in your county. So, in practical terms, the only way to put honest men and women on the ballot in your area in November, and to ensure an honest, public count of the ballots on election day -- it to use the precinct system to election honest party leaders in the local parties in your own county. (Third parties have their place even now to raise issues and educate the public, but until an honest vote count can be restored at the county level, third party candidates are effectively checkmated for the next 1000 years.) A good first step to take back the USA would be for thousands of Americans spanning most of the counties in the nation to at least find out where their county precinct meeting is for either the local Democratic or local Republican party, and then go to observe it in 2008. It would be better if each of us would get on the ballot for the precinct office in our local neighborhood (this usually takes about 5 signatures gathered from your neighbors). -- If we area elected at the spring primary, then we become a precinct executive in our party and go on to participate in the county precinct organizational meeting. (1/3rd of the precinct positions in the USA are vacant, so just getting on the ballot and voting for yourself often ensures victory). --- What the country and the world desperately needs -- is for hundreds of thousands of normal Americans to simply ATTEND one of the county organizational meetings (precinct meetings) in their own counties in February through June 2008. Call the party headquarters of one of the parties in power in your own county (invariably this will be limited to the Democratic and Republican parties). Ask them where the meeting is (it will usually be an a VFW hall or a local convention center) -- and attend it. You will be amazed that these are the virtually unknown meetings where the party leaders are elected who could restore an open and honest vote count to your county, and who could nominate honest and alert candidates for the November election. These even-year precinct organizational meetings (which are held shortly after the spring primary elections in your county) are where all normal people and all alert Americans must turn their attention, because how our votes are counted, and who gets to be on the November ballot for US Congress and local office -- are basically determined at these gatherings. Expect opposition from almost all the well-known groups, which groups are by 2006 basically obedient arms of either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party -- That's why we need normal Americans at the county level to replace the agents of the evil Ruling Elite with people of conscience -- who will restore and protect true freedom under God. To join your influence with that of other Everyday Americans in a realistic and effective plan, go to this website: www.networkamerica.org

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[foofighter20x]

I love the system my county uses back home.

It's like those Scan-Tron tests from back in school. You bubble your choices in on paper, and then you turn in your ballot. They run the ballot through the machine and it then counts the vote, but there is ALWAYS a paper trail for contests.