Help:

[Patriot123]

All right. My entire family is Jewish, and I'm, say... Having a hard time convincing them that America shouldn't be donating to Israel, or any country. They all called me crazy and such, saying how, "The Jews have been persecuted for ages, and blamed and so on and so forth," etcetera. I'm trying to explain to them that, sure, it might be great that Israel is getting all of this support, but we can't afford it, and we're getting involved in their region of the world, and holding them back from doing things that are necessary for them to defend themselves. But they just don't get it. Every time I say something, they just say, "You know, we Jews have been persecuted for ages, etc etc." I've tried everything. This all started out as a RP conversation, which turned into his stances, and now this. What can I say to prove my point? I've tried everything. I've said how America can't afford it, and how we shouldn't be donating to all of these countries as we just don't have the money. What can I say to prove my point? Any suggestions? They're all anti-Paul pro Giuliani and Hillary, pro-intervention and pro-whatever else. Help?

[Corydoras]

I hope this thread helps:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=29757

Note especially that one post in that thread links to this blog entry by MicroBalrog, whom you've probably seen around here:
http://israelilibertarian.blogspot.com/2007/10/questions-for-republican-jewish.html

[Crickett]

I will take a stab, but I doubt you can not change them. Israel has been fighting wars since the beginning of time. We have been fighting wars for all of your life, and most of theirs. They do not understand what it would be like to live in peace. I actually, only remember a few short years of it, and no one was losing their daddies, or brothers, or friends, then. We need to put our own house in order. This does not mean not defending Israel. It means NO entangling alliances with any other countries whatsoever. It does NOT mean we will not talk with them, trade with them and be friend them. But we will not take sides for them anymore, or anyone else, anywhere. We will give peace a chance, HERE. Our economy will improve greatly, and income taxes can and will be abolished. We can trust Ron Paul.

[Patriot123]

They just keep ramming this down my throat, saying "Oh, you're not a Jew!" You're against Israel! How could you not want to give them money? Then don't donate to all of these other countries, and just donate to Israel!" I just can't take this :P I don't know what to say. Honestly... Everything I say gets twisted around to make me out to be a terrorist :P

And it's funny. They say I'm a disgrace to Jews everywhere, but what they don't get is that this is WHY people hate Jews :eek:

[moostraks]

Many people in Israel realize they are beholden to the United States and would like to make their own decisions. G*d will take care of his own, that I am confident of, and our human failings sometimes lead us to believe we can force an issue because we think He needs us. Israel would be much stronger if we would stop tying their hands and playing nanny over every decision they make.

As Dr.Paul points out we give more to agents that dislike Israel as opposed to Israel itself, so in that instance alone it would seem to behoove them to get us out of their politics.....Try listening to some of their web feeds, or online papers. Somewhat like here, you find a lot of people who want others to do the dirty work(ie. use our funds and blame the U.S. for mistakes) and then you find some who see that remaining unencumbered gives them the freedom to choose their own battles to fight even if they remain solely accountable.

[Dave Pedersen]

They have plenty of nukes. Who will attack them? If they are against socialism they can understand Israel is better off without foreign aid which always comes with strings attached and perpetuates dependence rather than independence.

[FreedomWon]

Try to explain that if there was no income tax and no IRS, any American Jewish person would have a significant amount of money to donate directly to Israel if they chose to.
I don't know how many Jewish folks there are in the U.S. but I would imagine that donations could be as much or more than what is sent over now.

[bbachtung]

Should American taxpayers be forced at gunpoint to pay billions of dollars per year to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Lebanon, and Israel?

Our Congress gives 3 times as much foreign aid to Arab countries as it does to Israel.

[lucius]

All right. My entire family is Jewish, and I'm, say... Having a hard time convincing them that America shouldn't be donating to Israel, or any country. They all called me crazy and such, saying how, "The Jews have been persecuted for ages, and blamed and so on and so forth," etcetera. I'm trying to explain to them that, sure, it might be great that Israel is getting all of this support, but we can't afford it, and we're getting involved in their region of the world, and holding them back from doing things that are necessary for them to defend themselves. But they just don't get it. Every time I say something, they just say, "You know, we Jews have been persecuted for ages, etc etc." I've tried everything. This all started out as a RP conversation, which turned into his stances, and now this. What can I say to prove my point? I've tried everything. I've said how America can't afford it, and how we shouldn't be donating to all of these countries as we just don't have the money. What can I say to prove my point? Any suggestions? They're all anti-Paul pro Giuliani and Hillary, pro-intervention and pro-whatever else. Help?

Zionism: The Real Enemy Of The Jews-- http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7144824386679216957&q=zionism+hart&total=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

True Torah Jews Against Zionism: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

Two resources that I have had success with, Alan Hart's book is wonderful as well.

Zionism: The Real Enemy Of The Jews vol 1&2: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zionism-Real-Enemy-Jews-v/dp/0955020700/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199161868&sr=1-2

[V-rod]

They just keep ramming this down my throat, saying "Oh, you're not a Jew!" You're against Israel! How could you not want to give them money? Then don't donate to all of these other countries, and just donate to Israel!" I just can't take this :P I don't know what to say. Honestly... Everything I say gets twisted around to make me out to be a terrorist :P

And it's funny. They say I'm a disgrace to Jews everywhere, but what they don't get is that this is WHY people hate Jews :eek:

You should tell your family that Ron Paul does not believe in interfering in Jewish/Christian organizations sending aid money to Israel. He just does not believing in taxing Americans and spending their money friviously. Let say Israel falls a little out of favor with USA in 20 years.

A controlling federal government would stick their nose in the business of citizens donating money to another nation. Eliminating the IRS could even allow more money to be sent to help Israel.

[NMCB3]

I would say look, we both would agree that its wrong to steal from our neighbors. Its just as wrong to have the government steal from individuals and redistribute the money on our behalf calling it an entitlement. Either way its theft. As an individual you should be free to donate your money to Israel or any other group for that matter, but you have no right to steal from others just because you happen to believe the cause is just. That is not what freedom is about. You do believe in freedom...right?

I always argue from the position of freedom. If they believe in freedom [which most claim to]then they have no valid argument as to why they can steal from their neighbors. If they dont believe in freedom, [the ideal that America was founded upon] then make them come right out and admit it. Dont let them pay lip service to it f they dont really believe in it. At the very least you may plant a seed, and cause them to rethink their position. If they tell you they dont believe in freedom then at least you know where you stand. Dont waste any more of your time.

[Cleaner44]

Remind them that the money has strings attached. USA then interfers with Isreal's national security. Isreal should be free to defend themselves without us interfering.

[MicroBalrog]

Do your relatives donate to LEVI or do they just want to throw OTHER people's money at Israel?