Best President of All time?

[forsmant]

I like Andrew Jackson for ending the second central bank of the united states.

[murrayrothbard]

I like Andrew Jackson for ending the second central bank of the united states.

Yeah but didn't he have that whole "Trail of Tears" / butchering natives problem?

[0zzy]

I like Andrew Jackson for forcing millions of Native Americans across the land, most of them dying. When the bodies died, the soldiers told them they can't bury them and they must move on.

Erm..no wait!

haha I dono though:). Thomas Jefferson? Paul seems to like Grover Cleveland. William Taft was underrated, as was Calvin Coolidge.

[dw1345]

Andrew Jackson was a jerk.

[forsmant]

I like him for the bank issue, not the native issue. :p

I don't know enough about the 19th century to pick a best. I just read about Andrew Jackson's fight with the bank.

[forsmant]

Andrew Jackson was a jerk.

So are you. So is Steve Martin

[kushaze]

I like John Tyler.

Dubbed "His Accidency" by his detractors, John Tyler was the first Vice President to be elevated to the office of President by the death of his predecessor.

Born in Virginia in 1790, he was raised believing that the Constitution must be strictly construed. He never wavered from this conviction. He attended the College of William and Mary and studied law.

Serving in the House of Representatives from 1816 to 1821, Tyler voted against most nationalist legislation and opposed the Missouri Compromise. After leaving the House he served as Governor of Virginia. As a Senator he reluctantly supported Jackson for President as a choice of evils. Tyler soon joined the states' rights Southerners in Congress who banded with Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, and their newly formed Whig party opposing President Jackson.

The Whigs nominated Tyler for Vice President in 1840, hoping for support from southern states'-righters who could not stomach Jacksonian Democracy. The slogan "Tippecanoe and Tyler Too" implied flagwaving nationalism plus a dash of southern sectionalism.

Clay, intending to keep party leadership in his own hands, minimized his nationalist views temporarily; Webster proclaimed himself "a Jeffersonian Democrat." But after the election, both men tried to dominate "Old Tippecanoe."

Suddenly President Harrison was dead, and "Tyler too" was in the White House. At first the Whigs were not too disturbed, although Tyler insisted upon assuming the full powers of a duly elected President. He even delivered an Inaugural Address, but it seemed full of good Whig doctrine. Whigs, optimistic that Tyler would accept their program, soon were disillusioned.

Tyler was ready to compromise on the banking question, but Clay would not budge. He would not accept Tyler's "exchequer system," and Tyler vetoed Clay's bill to establish a National Bank with branches in several states. A similar bank bill was passed by Congress. But again, on states' rights grounds, Tyler vetoed it.

In retaliation, the Whigs expelled Tyler from their party. All the Cabinet resigned but Secretary of State Webster. A year later when Tyler vetoed a tariff bill, the first impeachment resolution against a President was introduced in the House of Representatives. A committee headed by Representative John Quincy Adams reported that the President had misused the veto power, but the resolution failed.

Despite their differences, President Tyler and the Whig Congress enacted much positive legislation. The "Log-Cabin" bill enabled a settler to claim 160 acres of land before it was offered publicly for sale, and later pay $1.25 an acre for it.

In 1842 Tyler did sign a tariff bill protecting northern manufacturers. The Webster-Ashburton treaty ended a Canadian boundary dispute; in 1845 Texas was annexed.

The administration of this states'-righter strengthened the Presidency. But it also increased sectional cleavage that led toward civil war. By the end of his term, Tyler had replaced the original Whig Cabinet with southern conservatives. In 1844 Calhoun became Secretary of State. Later these men returned to the Democratic Party, committed to the preservation of states' rights, planter interests, and the institution of slavery. Whigs became more representative of northern business and farming interests.

When the first southern states seceded in 1861, Tyler led a compromise movement; failing, he worked to create the Southern Confederacy. He died in 1862, a member of the Confederate House of Representatives.
U.S. Presidents: United in Service
Take a look at presidential biographies made by kids and videos about service from the President's Council on Service and Civic Participation.

Tenth President
1841-1845

Born: March 29, 1790 in Charles City County, Virginia

Died: January 18, 1862 in Richmond, Virginia

Married to Letitia Christian Tyler and to Julia Gardiner Tyler

[ZenX]

Easy! James K. Polk!

In four short years he met his every goal
He seized the whole southwest from Mexico
Made sure the tariffs fell
And made the English sell the Oregon territory
He built an independent treasury
Having done all this he sought no second term
But precious few have mourned the passing of
Mister James K. Polk, our eleventh president
Young Hickory, Napoleon of the Stump

[0zzy]

I like John Tyler.

What he do?

[dw1345]

So are you. So is Steve Martin


haha touche

[kushaze]

What he do?

I edited my first entry above.

[Eponym_mi]

Jefferson

[Calimobber]

Im a Thomas Jefferson man myself. Ron Paul is basically the modern Jefferson. Jefferson believed in freedom and small gov more than anyone

Benjamin Franklin was the true Hero of America

[forsmant]

Jefferson did not believe in property as a right. (pursuit of happiness instead of property) He is often misunderstood. He called for a revolution every 19 years. At least a rewrite of all the laws. He did not want the dead to rule the living.

http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Politics-Thomas-Jefferson/dp/0700602933

[deehrler]

Franklin Pierce. He drank a lot and I don't think that he accomplished much of anything. An ideal President he was.

[dougkeenan]

In my lifetime: James Earl Carter, only one that comes close to peacemaker.

Outside my lifetime: Ulysses S. Grant, because Lincoln said he resembles James T. Kirk.

[nate895]

Jefferson did not believe in property as a right. (pursuit of happiness instead of property) He is often misunderstood. He called for a revolution every 19 years. At least a rewrite of all the laws. He did not want the dead to rule the living.

http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Politics-Thomas-Jefferson/dp/0700602933

From what I've read, Franklin crossed out property and put in pursuit of happiness.

I like Thomas Jefferson myself.

[Dave Pedersen]

Alexander Haig

[forsmant]

From what I've read, Franklin crossed out property and put in pursuit of happiness.

I like Thomas Jefferson myself.

I read differently. Oh, well.

[deehrler]

Alexander Haig

:D Excellent choice!

[Luther]

I like Andrew Jackson for ending the second central bank of the united states.

The doesn't quite make up for his ethnic cleansing and genocide.

[forsmant]

Alexander Haig

I do not believe that he actually held the office of Presidency.

[forsmant]

How about Grover Cleveland?

[Spirit of '76]

In spite of the modern hysterics and hyperbole surrounding the Indian Removal Act (who today sheds a tear for the thousands of settlers butchered by Indians?), Andrew Jackson was a great president.

My all-time favorite, though, is Calvin Coolidge. I see a lot of parallels between him and Ron Paul.

[forsmant]

In spite of the modern hysterics and hyperbole surrounding the Indian Removal Act (who today sheds a tear for the thousands of settlers butchered by Indians?), Andrew Jackson was a great president.

My all-time favorite, though, is Calvin Coolidge. I see a lot of parallels between him and Ron Paul.

Thank you for some validation!

[Independent Operator]

You are all very, very incorrect.

The obvious answer is: the 45th president of these United States, President Ron Paul

:cool:

[chipvogel]

George Washington....for leaving office
because for the first time in history power was peacefully transfered from one leader to the next without bloodshed or revolution or birthright

[electronicmaji]

I might be a bit biased because I wrote a giant termp paper on him but I like Franklin Pierce...

[merrimac]

Although I am a big fan of Jefferson and appreciate Jackson for "killing the bank", my vote has to go to George Washington.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/d/d4/250px-Portrait_of_George_Washington.jpeg

He had arguably the most moral authority of any president. He picked people based on merit not loyalty, he followed the Constitution always, and he turned what were 13 countries into one nation.

Contrast that with the 21st century's "George W" who picks people based on loyalty not merit, calls the Constitution a "god damn piece of paper", and turned what was one nation into two bitterly divided camps.

[Dave Pedersen]

I do not believe that he actually held the office of Presidency.

Yeah I know.. kinda my point.

He was a "take charge" kind of guy.. in exactly the wrong way but at least he wasn't too ashamed of his lust for power to bother to hide it behind politicking.

Beside Washington and Jefferson most of them had some pretty serious faults. The ones we don't know much about were probably the best of the lot. Certainly not Lincoln or FDR or anybody more recent. Reagan started out great but it is suspected after the assassination attempt GHW Bush more or less took over (in spite of Haig's generous offer) and began his murderous corruption of the administration.

[Spirit of '76]

Seriously, guys. Go read up on Calvin Coolidge and tell me you don't see a lot of Ron Paul there.

[readyja]

Best constitutionalist, and a great name.

[HOLLYWOOD]

Alexander Haig

LOL... "I'm in Charge NOW!"

[cindy25]

Grover Cleveland, especially the 1st term
Jerry Ford was also good; he restored the right to own gold, and ended draft registration.

Carter has two major blemishes-restoring the selective service, and the childish Olympic boycott of 1980.

[jblosser]

Glad to see Washington got some love finally. There's a reason the people made him do it first. And then he had the humility to walk away.

Ron is making me a fan of Grover Cleveland though. The best ones will always be underdiscussed.

[Noleader]

Washington. He had all the power to turn himself into a King and passed it up for the sake of Liberty. The most noble act any person can undertake is to give up power when it is before them.

[ChickenHawk]

George Washington for all the reasons mentioned. I think Ronald Reagan deserves honorable mention. Despite many failings I believe he was still one of the greatest political leaders in the history of modern civilization.

[ThePieSwindler]

I agree with Spirit of 76. Coolidge basically did what you want a president to do - butt out of the economy, lower taxes, tariffs, deregulate, and stay peaceful. the reason he is rated so low by most historians is because he "did nothing", but in his day the status quo was alot more lassez-faire, thus its a very good thing he did "nothing". He was free of scandal, and had no interest in returning to the presidency as he did not care much for power.

As it says on wikipedia, really the biggest "problem" people have with him is simply using him as a focal point for their general criticism on lassez faire government, which means coolidge was essentially a thorn in the side of leftists at the time, and is ignored by leftist historians today. Coolidge was a terrific president in terms of obeying the constitution, and keeping government limited and the economy strong.

He was not a libertarian, as he did believe in government controls at the local and state level, but was very lassez-faire at the federal level. From wiki (with a citation):


Although some commentators have criticized Coolidge as a doctrinaire laissez-faire ideologue, historian Robert Sobel offers some context based on Coolidge's sense of federalism: "As Governor of Massachusetts, Coolidge supported wages and hours legislation, opposed child labor, imposed economic controls during World War I, favored safety measures in factories, and even worker representation on corporate boards. Did he support these measures while president? No, because in the 1920s, such matters were considered the responsibilities of state and local governments."

For strict constitutionalist, Coolidge is probably #1. As far as true Classical Liberals go, it doesnt get better than Grover Cleveland.

[AggieforPaul]

Washington.

[LibertyEagle]

....calls the Constitution a "god damn piece of paper"

No, he did not! That was debunked months ago. Will you guys please stop putting that in videos and stop saying it. It makes us look stupid.

[FreeTraveler]

If he'd followed the Constitution, he would not have put down the "Whiskey Rebellion." George Washington, First Traitor to the Constitution!!!



Although I am a big fan of Jefferson and appreciate Jackson for "killing the bank", my vote has to go to George Washington.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/d/d4/250px-Portrait_of_George_Washington.jpeg

He had arguably the most moral authority of any president. He picked people based on merit not loyalty, he followed the Constitution always, and he turned what were 13 countries into one nation.

Contrast that with the 21st century's "George W" who picks people based on loyalty not merit, calls the Constitution a "god damn piece of paper", and turned what was one nation into two bitterly divided camps.

[noztnac]

Thomas Jefferson

[merrimac]

If he'd followed the Constitution, he would not have put down the "Whiskey Rebellion." George Washington, First Traitor to the Constitution!!!

When you say "put down" it sounds violent. Such was the reverence of Washington that the rebellion just faded without any violence (and Washington pardoned the ringleaders, BTW).

The following description of Washington comes from the website
http://www.theamericanrevolution.org/

"Washington has been the only founding father who has gone unscathed by historians since his death. His greatness has yet to be questioned even by the most ravenous cynics who have ever scribed a publication. History has indeed been kind to our first President, and the more one reads of the man, the more is understood as to his impenetrable aura. His willingness to sacrifice all of his wealth for his belief's served as a model to others who at the time may have stayed home to enjoy the fruits of their labor. His versatility as first a military marvel, then a brilliant statesman certainly has led to his status as the greatest American who ever lived. "

[RegularRon]

Off the top of my head, my favorites have always been...Washington, Madison, Clevland, Coolidge and Reagan.

All tried their best to follow the Constitution.

[Bradley in DC]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/jarvis/jarvis24.html

The First President

by Gail Jarvis

History is not like other sciences. Events can be interpreted differently by different historians. Versions of history contained in textbooks seem to change to accommodate current political trends. And, in some cases, historical facts are determined by a general consensus.

This variable nature of history has always interested me, partly, I admit, because of my fondness for trivia. This article could be called trivia but I hope to use it in a way to give you food for thought.

Let me set the stage by asking a question; "Who was the first president of the United States?"

Before you answer I want to briefly describe one of the unusual, and often humorous, events that happened to me years ago when my business kept me on frequent out of town trips. One night I was seated at the bar in an upscale restaurant waiting for a table. Two distinguished looking gentlemen seated adjacent to me were engaged in a heated discussion, gesturing and raising their voices. Suddenly, the man beside me wheeled toward me and blurted;

"Who was the first king of France?"

After a startled laugh, I assured him that I had no idea who the first king of France was. Ignoring my answer, the other man wagged a finger at me; "It was Clovis!" he said firmly. Shaking his head, his companion stated, "No! It was Merovech!" Then both eyed me expectantly, waiting for a decision. Again, I pled ignorance. Finally, peeved by my deficient education, they turned away and resumed their argument.

These were two serious Francophiles. Their conversation was sprinkled with French and they frequently quoted the Larousse. But they couldn’t agree on the identity of France’s first king. Later, I put the question to a history professor I knew. After a thoughtful pause, he said; "I would pick Clodian," and then immediately qualified his answer by explaining that, before you can determine the first king, you must decide when France evolved from a collection of tribes into a nation. This decision, which could vary from historian to historian, is subject to change as additional research uncovers new information.

I have never discovered who the first king of France was, but I have learned how tenuous history can be, especially when describing events that occurred over a century ago; even when there is documentation available.

So, who was your choice for the first president of the United States? I guess many of you named George Washington. But some of you probably hesitated. Since the question was so easy, you felt there had to be a catch. You suspected that I was going to dredge up some technicality to prove that George Washington wasn’t actually our first president.

Well, yes. But not so much a technicality as an historical judgment. Before we can determine who the first president of the United States was, we must decide – When did the United States become the United States? It wasn’t the United States prior to 1776 when the thirteen colonies issued the Declaration of Independence. However, about that time the colonies began to refer to themselves as states and those who signed the Declaration of Independence described themselves as "Representatives of the united States of America." Although "the united States" they referred to might be interpreted as simply a description and not a formal designation.

As soon as the States became independent, they began devising a formalized structure to operate under. But they were determined not to create a powerful central authority that could become as oppressive as the British Monarchy they had opposed. They recognized the need for a Congress, a central governing body, but were adamant that Congress and the States should be "coequal" – a "dual sovereignty." To accomplish this goal, they drafted the "Articles of Confederation." Learned men who chose their words carefully wrote these Articles. Their language is precise and their statements mean exactly what they say. The document they crafted refers to a "Confederacy"; a voluntary league of states. Article I names the Confederacy, "The United States of America."

The Articles of Confederation were ratified on March 1,1781. The document created the office of president to be appointed by a Committee of the States and limited to a term of one year. Presidential duties involved presiding over the United States in Congress Assembled, executing laws, treaties, and military orders, including military commissions, receiving foreign dignitaries, assembling and adjourning Congress, and other routine functions required by the office. A new president, John Hanson of Maryland, was selected on November 5th. Hanson served a one-year term that ended on November 4, 1782. From 1782 until 1789, when George Washington took the oath of office, seven more presidents were chosen. And, therefore, George Washington was actually our ninth president.

These first eight presidents were among the best and the brightest of the early founders. The first, John Hanson, made the most of his twelve months in office. He established the Great Seal of the United States; created the first Treasury Department, Foreign Affairs Department and the Secretary of War. President Hanson removed all foreign troops and foreign flags from America and designated the fourth Thursday of every November a Thanksgiving Day holiday.

The fourth president was Richard Henry Lee of Virginia, General Robert E. Lee’s grandfather. He was one of most famous orators in Congress and he was the one who introduced the resolution calling for a formal declaration of independence from England. His resolution was adopted and Lee was selected to head the committee to draft the document. However, an illness in his family made it necessary for him to return home indefinitely so the task was given to his friend and fellow Virginian, Thomas Jefferson.

Arthur St. Clair, president number seven, issued the Northwest Ordinance that annexed the Northwest Territory for future settlements. St. Clair also created a Confederation Convention for the purpose of correcting deficiencies in the Articles of Confederation. The revised Articles became the United States Constitution. The new Constitution changed not only the presidential election process but also expanded the scope of the presidency beyond the duties prescribed for the original eight.

But wait a minute. In addition to these eight presidents, we mustn’t ignore Samuel Huntington who served as president from March 1, 1781 to July 6, 1781. Nor should we leave out Thomas McKean, who was president from July 10, 1781 until John Hanson assumed the office. These two additional presidents would make General Washington our eleventh president.

And, of course, there were presidents who served before the Articles of Confederation were officially adopted. How could we not mention John Hancock who held the office of president from 1776 to 1777? Hancock had the honor of serving as president a second time from 1785 to 1786, one of the eight presidents mentioned above. Henry Laurens, the only American president to be confined to the Tower of London, succeeded him and held the office from 1777 to 1778. After Laurens, John Jay served as president from 1778 to 1779. Samuel Huntington became president in 1779. However, his term in office was continued after the Articles of Confederation were formally adopted so we shouldn’t count him twice. But these three additional presidents would make George Washington number 14.

Reasonable people could disagree on whether or not the Declaration of Independence was the beginning of the United States. On the other hand, there is nothing ambiguous about the language of the Articles of Confederation. With the ratification of this document the united States officially became the "United States."

The proceedings held to revise the Articles of Confederation produced a lengthy and often emotional debate between those who wanted a strong central government and those who wanted to continue the loose association of states. George Washington presided over these often passionate deliberations and it took a major effort on his part to maintain order among the delegates.



The Articles of Confederation clearly stated that any alteration must be approved by all thirteen states. Advocates for a strong central government knew it would be difficult to get unanimous agreement for the radical changes they wanted to make. The story of how they transformed the Articles of Confederation into the U.S. Constitution involves America’s "skeleton in the closet" or what James Madison called the "delicate truths" of the negotiations.

When the revised document, the Constitution, became effective, and George Washington took office, only eleven states had ratified it. The revision would not have been legal under the constraints of the Articles. Therefore some states had to withdraw – I prefer the word secede – from the Confederacy of states. Once they seceded, they could revise the Articles without the approval of all 13 states. On the other hand, if they had remained in the Confederacy, the language of the Articles bound them and, consequently, the Constitution would not have been a legal document.

Their de facto secession allowed them to circumvent the stipulations of the Articles without appearing to do so. The ploy used was to insert language into the new Constitution that permitted its adoption after only nine states ratified it. James Madison refers to this ruse, as using "informal and unauthorized propositions" and this is what he meant by the "delicate truths" of the ratification proceedings.

Madison and the others who favored a strong central government felt that achieving their ultimate goal was important enough to justify bending the rules. Madison wrote, "forms ought to give way to substance" and "the means should be sacrificed to the end, rather than the end to the means." After essentially admitting that they had acted ultra vires (beyond their authority), Madison took his justification a step further, and in a revealing statement, he affirmed the "precious right of the people to abolish or alter their governments as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

Although the new Constitution made major changes to the Articles of Confederation, some provisions were simply reworded. Article II of the original document specified that states have all the rights and sovereignty that are not expressly forbidden by the Articles of Confederation. This is basically the same language that is used in Amendment X which clarifies earlier Constitutional references to state sovereignty. None of the language in either the Articles of Confederation or the Constitution forbids states to secede. Those who claim it does, rely on an implied interpretation, while those who claim it doesn’t use an explicit interpretation.

More than a year after its ratification and Washington’s inauguration, the thirteenth state finally approved the Constitution. Because he was the first president to take an oath to support this new Constitution, General George Washington, by consensus if not by fact, is considered to be the first president of the United States.

Although Washington’s status as our first president is an historical judgment, I’m happy to accept it. In addition to being an outstanding General and war hero, he was a true statesman. George Washington was revered by his associates as well as the citizens of the United States, who returned him to office for a second term. He would have been easily elected for a third term but he refused to run again. And his farewell address wisely warned us about "foreign alliances, attachments, and intrigues."

Upon Washington’s death, Robert E. Lee’s father, Henry Lee III, then a member of the Continental Congress, was asked by Congress to deliver a tribute to the deceased president. Lee’s moving tribute to General Washington included the famous phrase; "First in war, first in peace and first in the hearts of his countrymen."

September 18, 2002

Gail Jarvis [send him mail] a CPA living in Beaufort, SC, is an advocate of the voluntary union of states enumerated by the founders.

[priest_of_syrinx]

So are you. So is Steve Martin

Oh, I'm picking out a thermos, for you
Not an ordinary thermos, for you
But the extra-best thermos, you can buy
With vinyl, and stripes, and a cup built right in
I'm picking out a thermos for you
And maybe a barometer too
And what else can I buy, so on me you'll rely
A rear-end thermometer too"

[Calvin]

My personal favorite is Calvin Coolidge. He governed like Paul promises to, leaving citizens alone to run their own lives. Coolidge presided over the fantastically prosperous 1920's, and served as the last-gasp of small-government federalism before the big government progressives took power.

He is noted for being a quiet, terse man. Some of his quotes are humorous.

The presidents I have to acknowledge as the greatest are Washington, Jefferson, and Jackson.

[ChickenHawk]

No, he did not! That was debunked months ago. Will you guys please stop putting that in videos and stop saying it. It makes us look stupid.


I'd like to believe he didn't say it but seems to come from some pretty reliable sources. How about a link to some reliable sources debunking it?

[Calvin]

I've finally read the other posts in this thread after having posted mine. I'm surprised to see so many others nominate Coolidge. What good taste we have on this board!

[Thomas Paine]

My favorite President is Thomas Whitmore:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGUqd_M6Mg&feature=related

[Mesogen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents#Cl assical_Liberal.2FLibertarian_Dissent_on_the_Liber al.2FConservative_Consensus

It's funny how far down Reagan is on the libertarians' list.

#32

Yeah, I agree. I don't know why most americans get a hard on for Reagan. I thought he was a crappy president overall. But I was a kid then, so...

[ChickenHawk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents#Cl assical_Liberal.2FLibertarian_Dissent_on_the_Liber al.2FConservative_Consensus

It's funny how far down Reagan is on the libertarians' list.

#32

Yeah, I agree. I don't know why most americans get a hard on for Reagan. I thought he was a crappy president overall. But I was a kid then, so...


If you compare what Reagan set out to accomplish with what he actually accomplished then he was a failure. If you take into account the political atmosphere at the time and his rather lofty goals it changes the perspective a lot.

[No1ButPaul08]

People, Ron Paul has a picture of one politician in his office. That is Grover Cleveland. That is also the answer to this question

From Wikipedia: Once Cleveland told a friend that his principal duty and greatest service to the country was in preventing Congress from enacting bad bills. He also felt that if the constitution did not authorize it, he could not in good faith sign a bill into law.

[Lyn]

I like Calvin C. or Thomas J. myself.

It's funny cause my mom and I had this conversation last night at midnight. I reminded her that my Dad (a businessman) had always said, "I hire the employees that I think will steal the least." Just for fun we tried to figure the best president out based on that criteria.