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goldenequity
07-13-2007, 07:21 AM
Arizona's Governor Janet Napalitano (D) signed into law the Nation's toughest Immigration Law to date.

It might be an opportunity for Ron Paul to show his support in interview dialogs and MSM sound bites. His support base is big here with Pat Gorman (Wake Up America-FMNN) and Charles Goyette both being based in Phoenix.

Also, it's making Arizona headlines today, because a group of business ELITES have decided to "come out swinging" against the law promising to fight it in court, and raise money to defeat the local congressmen in 2008 Elections who promoted the measure and got it passed.

Here (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0713sanctions-opposition0713.html) is the article.

Here are some highlights of the new Law:
Fair and Legal Employment Act (House Bill 2779)


Provisions


• Would prohibit employers from knowingly or intentionally hiring undocumented workers.


• Starting Jan. 1, would require all employers to run their new hires through the Basic Pilot Program to determine their legal status. Use of the program would act as a sort of immunity for employers facing prosecution under the law.


• Would form an eight-member committee to study employer-sanctions laws in Arizona and whether they are fairly enforced. A committee report would be due to the governor, speaker of the House and Senate president by the end of 2008.

Penalties


• First offense: Businesses caught "knowingly" employing an undocumented worker would lose their license for up to 10 days. Those caught "intentionally" hiring an undocumented worker would lose their license for at least 10 days.

The court would order that the employment of all undocumented workers at the business be terminated, and require the employer to sign an affidavit stating that the workers were fired and they will not hire such workers in the future. Employers would be placed on probation for three years (five, for "intentional" violations)


• Second offense (while on probation): Permanent revocation of the business license.

Enforcement


• Investigations would be conducted based on complaints against employers.


• If the complaint was shown to be valid, the investigator would be required to notify U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and local law enforcement.


• From the state's 2007-08 General Fund, the bill would provide $100,000 to the Arizona Attorney General's Office, and $2.4 million to be distributed to county prosecutors.


randy

paulitics
07-13-2007, 07:27 AM
Their scared because they know the law CAN be enforced. lol In fact, it can solve 99% of the problem, the same way the IRS can keep people 99% voluntarily compliant on their taxes.

LibertyEagle
07-13-2007, 07:32 AM
I wonder how they determine the "knowingly" and "intentionally" part?

PatriotOne
07-13-2007, 07:32 AM
Arizona citizen's should launch a full-blown attack on this coalition's businesses by picketing them and calling for a, grrrr, the word is escaping me...what's the word for asking everyone to not purchase goods or services from a company?

From the article:

Some of the state's biggest business leaders are joining forces and finances to oppose Arizona's tough new sanctions against the hiring of illegal workers - sanctions they say would devastate the economy.

The coalition, Wake Up Arizona!, counts Valley McDonald's franchiser Mac Magruder, Tucson car dealer Jim Click, former Phoenix Suns Chief Executive Jerry Colangelo and Meritage Homes Chief Executive Steve Hilton among its supporters.

The group plans to mount a legal challenge against a new state employer-sanctions law already being called the nation's toughest.

LibertyEagle
07-13-2007, 07:33 AM
boycott?

paulitics
07-13-2007, 07:36 AM
Arizona citizen's should launch a full-blown attack on this coalition's businesses by picketing them and calling for a, grrrr, the word is escaping me...what's the word for asking everyone to not purchase goods or services from a company?

From the article:

Some of the state's biggest business leaders are joining forces and finances to oppose Arizona's tough new sanctions against the hiring of illegal workers - sanctions they say would devastate the economy.

The coalition, Wake Up Arizona!, counts Valley McDonald's franchiser Mac Magruder, Tucson car dealer Jim Click, former Phoenix Suns Chief Executive Jerry Colangelo and Meritage Homes Chief Executive Steve Hilton among its supporters.

The group plans to mount a legal challenge against a new state employer-sanctions law already being called the nation's toughest.

AW, The traitors reveal themselves.

PatriotOne
07-13-2007, 07:37 AM
boycott?

Yes! Thank you. I ran out of coffee yesterday so I am not functioning on all cylinder's :(

goldenequity
07-13-2007, 08:02 AM
boycott?

I know there is going to be a split decision on this question because of the concern to always be "positive" in promoting the Ron Paul campaign, a.k.a. no alignment with the "911 truthers" etc.,...

but,

Could such a "boycott" (which would probably make the Phoenix headlines) be an opportunity for the Phoenix meet-up group to initiate?

By example, I point to Ron Paul coming out and showing solidarity with Ed and Elaine Brown and getting IMMEDIATE coverage from the MSM, which he definately used to his advantage (he's SO good at that...heh-heh). There were people and discussions on this forum that ABSOLUTELY cautioned even TALKING about the Brown issue in FEAR of contaminating the campaign! Then Ron Paul himself (no less) shows NO fear of tackleing the HOT issues. Civic ACTION and Civil DISOBEDIENCE are cousins and close to the very HEART of our Candidate.

When and What is appropriate to link the campaign to?

Just my ponderings.

randy

LibertyEagle
07-13-2007, 08:10 AM
When and What is appropriate to link the campaign to?

If Ron Paul initiates or calls for a boycott, then that would be appropriate to link him to then. If it's just our idea, then no.

goldenequity
07-13-2007, 08:13 AM
If Ron Paul initiates or calls for a boycott, then that would be appropriate to link him to then. If it's just our idea, then no.

Wisdom:cool:

PatriotOne
07-13-2007, 08:17 AM
I know there is going to be a split decision on this question because of the concern to always be "positive" in promoting the Ron Paul campaign, a.k.a. no alignment with the "911 truthers" etc.,...

but,

Could such a "boycott" (which would probably make the Phoenix headlines) be an opportunity for the Phoenix meet-up group to initiate?

By example, I point to Ron Paul coming out and showing solidarity with Ed and Elaine Brown and getting IMMEDIATE coverage from the MSM, which he definately used to his advantage (he's SO good at that...heh-heh). There were people and discussions on this forum that ABSOLUTELY cautioned even TALKING about the Brown issue in FEAR of contaminating the campaign! Then Ron Paul himself (no less) shows NO fear of tackleing the HOT issues. Civic ACTION and Civil DISOBEDIENCE are cousins and close to the very HEART of our Candidate.

When and What is appropriate to link the campaign to?

Just my ponderings.

randy

Personally, I think this is a no brainer and have been mulling this around myself. If the Arizona Ron Paul groups want to take up the cause, I can only see a win-win there. Maybe even front page ads (with our donation's) calling for a boycott of the coalition companies. Pickets with dual signage. Etc. As someone's sig says...This is the Real Fight Club. If the people don't take action, they will win. Arizona would be a great place to show the strength of the people on this issue and send a strong message to those in the future who plan on fighting it. I can only see this as a positive for Ron Paul's campaign.

PatriotOne
07-13-2007, 08:22 AM
If Ron Paul initiates or calls for a boycott, then that would be appropriate to link him to then. If it's just our idea, then no.

Bullshit. If we waited for RP's campaign for permission for everything we did then we would not be near as far along as we are. Besides, if we wait for permission then that makes the campaign liable.

goldenequity
07-13-2007, 08:25 AM
That would definately throw some more wood on the McCain "fire" that's
building and making headlines daily as his campaign is collapsing.

because,

1. He's the Arizona Senator
2. He authored the defeated Immigration Bill that was defeated (finally) in Congress last week.

How about someone call HQ and propose the strategy to Ron Paul or Jesse?
C'mon Fight Club!

randy

LibertyEagle
07-13-2007, 08:28 AM
Bullshit. If we waited for RP's campaign for permission for everything we did then we would not be near as far along as we are. Besides, if we wait for permission then that makes the campaign liable.

I didn't say to wait. The question was when it was ok to associate Ron Paul's name with it.

PatriotOne
07-13-2007, 08:36 AM
I didn't say to wait. The question was when it was ok to associate Ron Paul's name with it.

If you mean legally attaching his name to it then I agree (such as taking out an ad saying endorsed by the Ron Paul campaign). But if you mean taking out an ad and say "paid for by the Arizona Ron Paul Support groups" then I don't see a problem with that, nor do I see a problem with handing out literature or carrying Ron Paul signs during a picket without their permission. The only group I can see it pissing off is the Corporations and since they will never be on RP's side, who cares? I see this as a great opprotunity to get the attention of "voters' and the media. Wouldn't it be even better if it didn't look like a pure paid political move on RP's part just for votes?

Edited to say: Maybe I am just not seeing a downside to this that you are. I'm open to your insight though.

LibertyEagle
07-13-2007, 08:49 AM
I'm probably being too cautious.

AZ Libertarian
07-13-2007, 11:38 AM
We have our hands full with the Campaign to attempt any pressure on this group - especially if the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce joins in. We are currently assembling materials to be distributed to 5 different states we have reps going to over the next 6 weeks and right now the 'name rcognition' phase of the Campaign takes precedence.
Ed
Asst. Organizer - Phoenix Meetup Group

PatriotOne
07-13-2007, 12:23 PM
We have our hands full with the Campaign to attempt any pressure on this group - especially if the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce joins in. We are currently assembling materials to be distributed to 5 different states we have reps going to over the next 6 weeks and right now the 'name rcognition' phase of the Campaign takes precedence.
Ed
Asst. Organizer - Phoenix Meetup Group

Fabulous AZ. Would love to hear how your efforts went when you get time (perhaps when complete). Perhaps we can revisit the "immigration" issue later when you guys are not so busy. Right now the corporations, etc., are just threatening to take action to oppose the new law so there may still be time later if you want to consider.

I myself see a large ad in a widely read newspaper/publication putting all Corporations involved on notice (a collection for ad costs to be spread throughout the Ron Paul communities) that boycotts will be called for and protests of businesses.

Of course it would be the follow up action if the ad didn't deter them that would be time consuming for you guys. I do see media coverage with this, Ron Paul name recognition, and admiration of fellow Arizona citizens wghich may translate into curiosity of who Ron Paul is and then ultimately admiration and more Ron Paul foot soldiers and voters.

Of course all this is easy for me to envision all the way from WA. State and I won't actually have to do anything more than contribute to the ad :( .

Anyways, just mull it over and discuss in your groups wen you have time.

Thanks for all the great work you guys are doing. It's so excting to hear about each others successes!

Go Arizona go!

constituent
07-13-2007, 02:58 PM
OK, on immigration...

square requiring "private" business to screen all of their potential applicants against a federal database of citizen v. non. (is this not more gov't intervention in the affairs of business?), and all of those lawful citizens also having to undergo such scrutiny with:

1) The message of Liberty (how can stopping people from crossing an artificial and invisible line in the sand to work for someone willing to hire be pro-freedom)

2) Keeping the Federal Gov't out of people's affairs (And yes, I understand this is a state law, but what are the implications of putting Ron Paul the presidential candidate and House Republican, his face and potentially all of the other grassroots supporters out there behind one side of this issue?)

Also, I am a Native Texan and only live a couple of hours from the border. I am of German/Cherokee descent, as white as it gets... and very very very... can't say enough verys, pro-immigrant! For ten-terms total, Dr. Paul has represented my area and many folks here share my sentiments... though as with everything, not all people... So how about the AZ Ron Paul Meetup group organize a protest of the state government allowing federal immigration policy to interfere with their governing prerogative?

Anyone know the polka-band, from Hallettsville I think, that sings the song about Bohemians and Mexicans? Something like "we love something something and tamales, cervezas and kolaches"

Man from La Mancha
07-13-2007, 03:28 PM
Since finger prints have good long record of ID. We could have a data base of USA citizens. Before you get too upset. This data base would have no other data attached to it by penalty of law and massive fines and jail time for who ever public or private that abuses this law. This is how it could work, every citizen or green card holder takes his proof of citizenship such as birth certificate, passport or immigration papers to the post office over a period of time. They will then give that finger print. When employers or the government pulls up that finger print all they know is this person is a citizen or tourist. They won't know the name, medical data, address, employment, criminal history, ect., or anything else. Nothing else, nada, zilch. With technology today and a simple finger print reader attached to any computer and updated daily any employer or welfair office will be able to check for free. No paper work just a print out for proof.

Well maybe you can add your name? What do think so we can identifiy true citizens?

ChooseLiberty
07-13-2007, 06:59 PM
LOL. Now this is funny.




Also, I am a Native Texan and only live a couple of hours from the border. I am of German/Cherokee descent, as white as it gets... and very very very... can't say enough verys, pro-immigrant!

cjhowe
07-13-2007, 07:48 PM
OK, on immigration...

square requiring "private" business to screen all of their potential applicants against a federal database of citizen v. non. (is this not more gov't intervention in the affairs of business?), and all of those lawful citizens also having to undergo such scrutiny with:

1) The message of Liberty (how can stopping people from crossing an artificial and invisible line in the sand to work for someone willing to hire be pro-freedom)

2) Keeping the Federal Gov't out of people's affairs (And yes, I understand this is a state law, but what are the implications of putting Ron Paul the presidential candidate and House Republican, his face and potentially all of the other grassroots supporters out there behind one side of this issue?)

Also, I am a Native Texan and only live a couple of hours from the border. I am of German/Cherokee descent, as white as it gets... and very very very... can't say enough verys, pro-immigrant! For ten-terms total, Dr. Paul has represented my area and many folks here share my sentiments... though as with everything, not all people... So how about the AZ Ron Paul Meetup group organize a protest of the state government allowing federal immigration policy to interfere with their governing prerogative?

Anyone know the polka-band, from Hallettsville I think, that sings the song about Bohemians and Mexicans? Something like "we love something something and tamales, cervezas and kolaches"

I share you views on this personally. I am also very pro-immigrant. At the same time, we don't share Ron Paul's views on this and he would benefit from exploiting this issue greatly. Especially for the Republican primaries.