Blimp Naysayers...

[mdevour]

Your past behavior has shown that you will never be satisfied.

Your many questions will not ever be answered to your satisfaction.

By continuing to post your questions many times per day in every thread, regardless of topic...

YOU DEMONSTRATE YOUR DELIBERATE INTENTION TO SABOTAGE THE PROJECT.

You are undermining the efforts of volunteers and paid staff
THAT OTHER GRASSROOTS SUPPORTERS BESIDES YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO FUND AND SUPPORT!!!

And you are violating the stated policy of the forum administrators (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47387).

This isn't your project any more! Get over it!

Get the hell out of our way!

Get out of our forum!

Shut up about our project and our people!

And most important: Go support something else!

[LibertyEagle]

It seems to me that if answering a question about the legality of the blimp project is seen as harmful to the effort, then something is seriously amiss.

[pacelli]

Your past behavior has shown that you will never be satisfied.

Your many questions will not ever be answered to your satisfaction.

By continuing to post your questions many times per day in every thread, regardless of topic...

YOU DEMONSTRATE YOUR DELIBERATE INTENTION TO SABOTAGE THE PROJECT.

You are undermining the efforts of volunteers and paid staff
THAT OTHER GRASSROOTS SUPPORTERS BESIDES YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO FUND AND SUPPORT!!!

And you are violating the stated policy of the forum administrators (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47387).

This isn't your project any more! Get over it!

Get the hell out of our way!

Get out of our forum!

Shut up about our project and our people!

And most important: Go support something else!

This should raise a great deal of support.

[all4one]

...
And you are violating the stated policy of the forum administrators (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47387).
...



Ditto

[McDermit]

It seems to me that if answering a question about the legality of the blimp project is seen as harmful to the effort, then something is seriously amiss.

I've tried to stay out of the blimp threads as of late, but I'd have to agree.

[torchbearer]

It seems to me that if answering a question about the legality of the blimp project is seen as harmful to the effort, then something is seriously amiss.

Ummm asking anyone but the attorney retained by the blimp people about the legality of the project is retarded.

[Ozwest]

Ummm asking anyone but the attorney retained by the blimp people about the legality of the project is retarded.
+1

[all4one]

Ummm asking anyone but the attorney retained by the blimp people about the legality of the project is retarded.

Ditto...

Besides, there are other threads which have had folks attempting to explain the legality of the blimp. And, I tend to agree with their legal reasoning. ;) But IANAL as well.

[LibertyEagle]

Ummm asking anyone but the attorney retained by the blimp people about the legality of the project is retarded.

Ummm... what is "retarded" (as you so eloquently phrase it) is making a comment like that, without first checking the blimp web page and taking note that all references to contact numbers for the attorneys have been removed.

[Ozwest]

Ummm... what is "retarded" (as you so eloquently phrase it) is making a comment like that, without first checking the blimp web page and taking note that all references to contact numbers for the attorneys have been removed.
Are you advocating that people on this forum should directly contact the attorneys themselves?

Preposterous!

[Duckman]

Not to pimp my thread again, but even if the blimp project is found to be a violation of FEC rules (which is unlikely) as long as you contribute less than $2000 it seems very unlikely you will ever have much to fear.

See my analysis here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=66863

[LibertyEagle]

Are you advocating that people on this forum should directly contact the attorneys themselves?

Preposterous!

No, Oz. That however seems to be what Torchbearer is suggesting and you seemed to approve of.

It does however seem to me that a few of the people here who have asked legitimate questions of the blimp team, deserve answers. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why that is so terrible or so scary to do. There have been substantive changes in the organization of the blimp company and it seems to have concerned some. Seems understandable to me. Why not just answer them and be done with it.

Surely you have seen the thread, "Blimp team here and listening". If they would just go one step beyond "listening" to answering, I think donations would go way up. That's all.

[ronpaulfan]

Some of us naysayers were just kicking the blimp team in the pants. The communication to the grassroots has improved 20 fold since 2 weeks ago.

[all4one]

Not to pimp my thread again, but even if the blimp project is found to be a violation of FEC rules (which is unlikely) as long as you contribute less than $2000 it seems very unlikely you will ever have much to fear.

See my analysis here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=66863

Double-DITTO!

Thanks Duckman; yours was one of the threads I was attempting to reference.:D

[pacelli]

It would probably help boost fundraising if the blimp PR people started answering questions in the "Blimp Q&A" forum.

[Jagwarr]

Are you advocating that people on this forum should directly contact the attorneys themselves?

Preposterous!

Not to long ago on these very forums we were indeed told to contact the lawyers ourselves if we had questions and many people did. However suddenly and without an explanation their phone numbers were removed.

[mdevour]

Here is the point:


By continuing to post your questions many times per day in every thread, regardless of topic...

YOU DEMONSTRATE YOUR DELIBERATE INTENTION TO SABOTAGE THE PROJECT.

You are undermining the efforts of volunteers and paid staff
THAT OTHER GRASSROOTS SUPPORTERS BESIDES YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO FUND AND SUPPORT!!!

And you are violating the stated policy of the forum administrators (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47387).

Sure, you have questions that haven't been answered. Some may never be! And every day from now until hell freezes over we'll see you repeat yourselves in every thread that attempts to raise enthusiasm, support, or money for the blimp.

You obviously don't want anybody else to help the blimp project. You'll stand squarely in their path and prevent them from doing anything useful on this forum.

I shudder to think how much money and how many new Ron Paul supporters you people have driven away while you've been attacking this project!

But then, that's obviously your whole purpose here, isn't it?

So I say: This isn't your project any more! Go find one that you DO support, and stop wrecking this one.

Every day... Every thread... Every post from your keyboard.

It's as plain as day.

Mike D.

[szczebrzeszyn]

So I say: This isn't your project any more! Go find one that you DO support, and stop wrecking this one.
That's not your forum, you know? If you don't like the questions being asked, go launch your own forum with heavy moderation.
Asking VALID questions is NOT attacking.

[mdevour]

That's not your forum, you know? If you don't like the questions being asked, go launch your own forum with heavy moderation.
Asking VALID questions is NOT attacking.

It's as much my forum as any of us, which means it's not! So we're on an equal footing here, you and me.

It's all in your intentions, szczebrzeszyn. If you are sincere, and conscious of your effect on the environment, you won't harm the project by asking a question.

But if you ask it over and over again, as most questions here seem to be, and you pile speculation on imagination and start shouting Fraud! Illegal! Waste! OMG we're going to jail!!! ... then you're not a sincere supporter of the project, and you belong elsewhere.

It's your choice how you want to approach asking your questions. If you support the blimp, you'll watch what's going on and won't let yourself cause harm to the project.

Mike D.

[texasliberty]

That's not your forum, you know? If you don't like the questions being asked, go launch your own forum with heavy moderation.
Asking VALID questions is NOT attacking.

Oh, I dunno, asking them every 5 minutes, in every thread, no matter how inappropriate to the topic, sure seems to be. Hey, I know, would you like a demo of that? PM me your phone number and I'll call you every time one of your guys posts the same question. Just to remind you that someone asked a question that didn't get answered, y'know? We'll do that for about a week and then you can post and tell the forum how your feel about it. Seriously, I'd be willing to do that for you... You seem to need attention :)

But in all seriousness, I have gotten questions answered by the blimp team, BTW, so here's a serious technique that actually works, if you're sooooo motivated to get answers:

- Make a purchase (bigger is better).
- Attach the receipt to your emailed question.

They do answer those, I've found. Somehow I'm not surprised that none of you constant poster guys seem to have figured that out by now. And no, I didn't ask any of those questions you keep reposting (because I don't care); [I asked one about whether Blimp rides can be claimed by donating $5K in many chunks (the answer is yes)]. So there's your clue. If you're so motivated to get answers, showing that you're an actual customer works a lot better than all this nebulous "I *would* donate, if you answer question X. And Y. Wait, and Z" business. Give that a try and let us know how it works.

[LibertyEagle]

It's all in your intentions, szczebrzeszyn. If you are sincere, and conscious of your effect on the environment, you won't harm the project by asking a question.


Now I know you didn't really mean to say what you just said. Please tell me that. :eek:

[walt]

That's not your forum, you know? If you don't like the questions being asked, go launch your own forum with heavy moderation.
Asking VALID questions is NOT attacking.

+911

[szczebrzeszyn]

But if you ask it over and over again, as most questions here seem to be, and you pile speculation on imagination and start shouting Fraud! Illegal! Waste! OMG we're going to jail!!! ... then you're not a sincere supporter of the project, and you belong elsewhere.
Well, I was talking about asking VALID questions. Shouting "Fraud!" etc. is not even a question and I don't like it as well. I've said before, that I'm far from accusing anyone of anything. I remember the first days of the LLC here and there was a lot of talk about transparency, which was added to the project a few days later. So I'm just asking the question - where that transparency has gone? I understand you might not care about it and I respect that, but don't bash people, who care.


It's your choice how you want to approach asking your questions. If you support the blimp, you'll watch what's going on and won't let yourself cause harm to the project.
I support Ron Paul for president and I like the blimp idea (I don't care about it being funded by PAC or LLC). I just don't like the recent changes in communication at all (avoiding and ignoring any legal questions) and thus the questions. I've just never thought that it would make me a troll, naysayer, blimp-hater etc...:(

[mdevour]

Now I know you didn't really mean to say what you just said. Please tell me that. :eek:

I'm sorry, LibertyEagle, I don't know quite what I've said to frighten you so! :D

Please explain?


Originally Posted by mdevour
It's all in your intentions, szczebrzeszyn. If you are sincere, and conscious of your effect on the environment, you won't harm the project by asking a question.

[Ryankelly]

One of the primary reasons that people from all political backgrounds are drawn to Ron Paul is that he will not duck tough questions and will always give you honest responses, even when the truth may hurt him or be difficult for the recipient to hear.

Whereas as Blimp Team is admirable in many ways, so far, they have not appeared completely credible. Admittedly, this appearance is likely to be the result of inexperience. I mean they have undertaken a huge project in a very short period of time. I honestly believe that their hearts are in the right place. But the impression that they are not promptly responding to certain legitimate questions, has seemingly hurt their support.

Think of it this way. If a broker was trying to sell you an investment, you would expect her to calmly and rationally respond to all of your concerns. If she did not respond in a way that made you confident in her, you would choose not to invest. So far, it appears to many of the potential investors on this Board, that the Blimp Team has not responded in a way that instills confidence. So certain people have chosen to refrain from investing. That is the free market.

As for the vitriolic attacks on potential investors asking legitimate business and legal questions, the followers of Dr. Paul should not inhibit the free flow of ideas. As Dr. Paul supporters, we should react openly and rationally to all people--- even those with whom we may disagree.

That said, I have not given up on the Blimp and if they ever produce a realistic Southern itinerary that looks as though it may help us win South Carolina and Florida, I am still open to further investment.

[LibertyEagle]

I'm sorry, LibertyEagle, I don't know quite what I've said to frighten you so! :D

Please explain?

You already showed that you knew exactly what was so horrifying in what you said.


If you are sincere, and conscious of your effect on the environment, you won't harm the project by asking a question.

Your comment smacks of the same thing we're seeing in the Bush administration. Does that answer your question? ;)

[szczebrzeszyn]

Oh, I dunno, asking them every 5 minutes, in every thread, no matter how inappropriate to the topic, sure seems to be. Hey, I know, would you like a demo of that? PM me your phone number and I'll call you every time one of your guys posts the same question. Just to remind you that someone asked a question that didn't get answered, y'know? We'll do that for about a week and then you can post and tell the forum how your feel about it. Seriously, I'd be willing to do that for you... You seem to need attention :)
I guess you were just joking with this "analogy", so I won't comment on that.
That's the way they chose to communicate with their customers and answer their questions.


But in all seriousness, I have gotten questions answered by the blimp team, BTW, so here's a serious technique that actually works, if you're sooooo motivated to get answers:

- Make a purchase (bigger is better).
- Attach the receipt to your emailed question.
Sure, they answer questions. Nobody says they don't. The point is, they answer only the ones they like and the ones, that have nothing to do with legal matters.
I just prefer asking questions first. It's pretty common approach IMHO.

And you know, it's not like asking Microsoft for the source code of Windows. There were many simple questions that required only 'yes/no' answer and yet they were simply ignored. If you suggest, that to get any answer I have to pay first, then I'm really disappointed.

[John P Slevin]

This is what people have paid for (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1359304352).

This footage is excellent, showing the blimp over Jacksonville, and news coverage to boot.

[Ryankelly]

This is what people have paid for (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1359304352).

This footage is excellent, showing the blimp over Jacksonville, and news coverage to boot.

I agree. The Blimp looked great.

[Cyclone]

Instead of jumping on the people who ask the questions and accusing them of hurting the project, I don't understand why you miss the concept that the blimp team SHOULD be answering these questions and that it is the blimp team that you should be jumping on for slowing down donations.

No matter how many times you hit me over the head with a baseball bat, I am not going to give money to this project. That is not how it works. Sorry.

In fact, it is your actions, of attacking legitimate questions that is hurting the project. It makes the project look shady and underhanded. You are doing that, not the folks that are asking things. You.

You are not helping the blimp project with threads like this. You are only calling attention, again, to the lack of transparency from the blimp team and making people more mistrustful.

Haven't you ever heard the old joke, "How does a lawyer say up yours? Answer: Trust me."



Besides, asking the blimp "team" legal questions is perfectly appropriate because the blimp "team" has several lawyers.

[Ryankelly]

No matter how many times you hit me over the head with a baseball bat, I am not going to give money to this project. That is not how it works. Sorry.

In fact, it is your actions, of attacking legitimate questions that is hurting the project. It makes the project look shady and underhanded. You are doing that, not the folks that are asking things. You.

You are not helping the blimp project with threads like this. You are only calling attention, again, to the lack of transparency from the blimp team and making people more mistrustful.

This is exactly what I have been saying.

[Ryankelly]

Please also remember. It is the Blimp Team that created the huge expectations. The tea party; Times Square; New Hampshire Primary ("the blimp is very social and will be visiting several rival campaign rallies"); The Capital One Bowl; an NFL playoff game.

Don't jump all over the disappointed investors because these plans did not pan out. There may be perfectly good reasons that each plan failed. However, in any business, the only way to survive disappointing your market is to admit your error and assure your supporters that you have learned from it. You must also tell your supporters (who may believe that they did not get what they thought they paid for), what you are going to do to replace the failed expectation.

Instead of reacting like a normal business, the Blimp Team has set a 12/31 deadline, removed their itinerary, and has put forth no long term vision to replace the one they have abandoned. Coupled with the lingering legal questions, it is only natural that some investors would be nervous.

[John P Slevin]

Here's video of news coverage from today's blimpin in Jacksonville. (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1359304352)

[Cyclone]

Here's video of news coverage from today's blimpin in Jacksonville. (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1359304352)


So this is an answer to the questions about legality?

Why do you do things like this? Clearly the implication is that we should ignore all questions because the blimp is getting coverage. No one has disputed that the blimp is getting coverage. But thread like this that attempt to deflect the conversation also hurt. Again, it is as if you hate transparency and refusal to discuss the issue implies that you would prefer if we don't discuss it.

[mdevour]

One of the primary reasons that people from all political backgrounds are drawn to Ron Paul is that he will not duck tough questions and will always give you honest responses, even when the truth may hurt him or be difficult for the recipient to hear.

So, while we're asking ourselves "What Would Ron Paul Do?" ... let's consider whether he would stop the House of Representatives from doing any business whatsoever because they haven't satisfied his every demand?


Think of it this way. If a broker was trying to sell you an investment, you would expect her to calmly and rationally respond to all of your concerns. If she did not respond in a way that made you confident in her, you would choose not to invest.

Sure! Due diligence! What a concept!

Now, having not received the answers you wanted, or being dissatisfied with those answers, will you now embark on a program of harassment of the lady and her company, picketing, shouting questions at her at constantly, so that her work and that of her entire office is stopped?

Or will you go elsewhere and find somebody you trust and support them with your patronage?


So far, it appears to many of the potential investors on this Board, that the Blimp Team has not responded in a way that instills confidence. So certain people have chosen to refrain from investing. That is the free market.

And a wonderful thing it is!

Unfortunately, other "certain people" have NOT refrained from attacking and insulting everything related to the blimp at every opportunity, effectively shutting down this forum for anything other than discussing the problems that they have with it.


As for the vitriolic attacks on potential investors asking legitimate business and legal questions, the followers of Dr. Paul should not inhibit the free flow of ideas. As Dr. Paul supporters, we should react openly and rationally to all people--- even those with whom we may disagree.

And they should not interrupt every conversation taking place on the blimp forums with repetitive complaints about every real or imagined fault, with the obvious result that the forum is rendered useless as a place for promotional or organizational work and other people are persuaded not to donate.

Having a doubt or question that hasn't been answered does not give anyone 100% veto power over the business of the forum or the activities of other supporters.

Raising the issue every day in every thread, assaulting every effort of other people to organize or promote, is aggression and deliberate sabotage.

That is the problem here.

Now, am I talking about you, Ryan? Hopefully not! Will it make you conscious of the impact your behavior on this forum will have on the Blimp project and, ultimately, on the Ron Paul campaign? I hope so!

Thanks,

Mike D.

[John P Slevin]

So this is an answer to the questions about legality?

Why do you do things like this? Clearly the implication is that we should ignore all questions because the blimp is getting coverage. No one has disputed that the blimp is getting coverage. But thread like this that attempt to deflect the conversation also hurt. Again, it is as if you hate transparency and refusal to discuss the issue implies that you would prefer if we don't discuss it.

The blimp project is about getting news coverage. And I posted the link to this news coverage (http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1359304352)because that is the whole point of the blimp project, not answering endless charges raised by those who opposed the blimp team and project.

Keep blimpin.

[texasliberty]

Sure, they answer questions. Nobody says they don't. The point is, they answer only the ones they like and the ones, that have nothing to do with legal matters.
I just prefer asking questions first. It's pretty common approach IMHO. [...] If you suggest, that to get any answer I have to pay first, then I'm really disappointed.

No, I'm simply suggesting that they appear to be very overworked and they devote their attention to their paying customers first (as well they should). I believe you'll eventually get an answer to your questions, and, as with the "purchase" vs "sponsorship" tempest in a teacup, I expect it will turn out to be a big non-issue. It would probably be great if they'd get around to answering you (of course, then there'd likely be some new issue :rolleyes:) If it's so darn important to you to get those answers ASAP, I've told you how to get them faster. If, on the other hand, it's not important enough for you to put money behind, well then, there sure is a lot of noise coming out of people who aren't actually prepared to put money into solving this alleged burning problem, and well, how burning can it be then?

I've put money into the Blimp, I'm happy with it, I'm putting more into it. I don't see any scary problem. I don't believe the evil omnipotent FEC is going to send me to Guantanamo, or even write me a nasty letter. I just can't see getting that riled up about it. But if y'all really think there's some dramatic problem that your questions will reveal, and it's that all-fired important, why doesn't one of you try making a purchase and then asking a question and see if that works better? Or if you don't have that much passion for these issues, then fine, but then it just seems a little silly for you guys to constantly tell us how much we should care about them.

That's my take on it, anyway...

[faisal]

Hey guys,

I have been very proud of the blimp project, but ever since I started to become active in the forums, things have sort of changed. Now that I've met individuals face-to-face (virtually) at a personal level, it seems like the blimp project has been taken in control by a select few and now it's becoming an isolated project. Sure we're helping with funds, ideas, and a travel route, but it feels like the blimp's transparency is sort of dissolving. I've been watching several hundreds of questions go by - serious questions - that are not getting answered. Sure the blimp team may not have all the time in the world to respond, but several of these posters are going to donate thousands of dollars if their questions will be answered. I don't see why they are not answering them. I think that's why several of us are jumping to conclusions that things are shady in this "business" of selling ad time. But let's please keep these fights amongst ourselves because we have every media center watching and waiting for Ron Paul's entire grassroots effort to collapse. Let's hope it doesn't happen because of this ongoing fight about the blimp project's integrity.

P.S. It's really interesting how it's a battle between senior members with 1,000+ posts versus regular members with less than 45 posts.

P.P.S. My title is completely random so don't get confused.

[szczebrzeszyn]

No, I'm simply suggesting that they appear to be very overworked and they devote their attention to their paying customers first (as well they should).
And how do they know who paid them on these forums, when they pick the questions they'd like to answer? You know that many people who ask legal questions actually bought the ad time?
I don't know if they are overworked or not, but they come here everyday and post everyday. So why no answers?


If it's so darn important to you to get those answers ASAP, I've told you how to get them faster.
Not ASAP, but I've been waiting since 20th.

[Ryankelly]

So, while we're asking ourselves "What Would Ron Paul Do?" ... let's consider whether he would stop the House of Representatives from doing any business whatsoever because they haven't satisfied his every demand?



Sure! Due diligence! What a concept!

Now, having not received the answers you wanted, or being dissatisfied with those answers, will you now embark on a program of harassment of the lady and her company, picketing, shouting questions at her at constantly, so that her work and that of her entire office is stopped?

Or will you go elsewhere and find somebody you trust and support them with your patronage?



And a wonderful thing it is!

Unfortunately, other "certain people" have NOT refrained from attacking and insulting everything related to the blimp at every opportunity, effectively shutting down this forum for anything other than discussing the problems that they have with it.



And they should not interrupt every conversation taking place on the blimp forums with repetitive complaints about every real or imagined fault, with the obvious result that the forum is rendered useless as a place for promotional or organizational work and other people are persuaded not to donate.

Having a doubt or question that hasn't been answered does not give anyone 100% veto power over the business of the forum or the activities of other supporters.

Raising the issue every day in every thread, assaulting every effort of other people to organize or promote, is aggression and deliberate sabotage.

That is the problem here.

Now, am I talking about you, Ryan? Hopefully not! Will it make you conscious of the impact your behavior on this forum will have on the Blimp project and, ultimately, on the Ron Paul campaign? I hope so!

Thanks,

Mike D.

I guess you told me. I better forget about the normal way I evaluate investments for fear I'll be accused of "embark[ing] on a program of harassment of the lady and her company, picketing, shouting questions at her at constantly, so that her work and that of her entire office is stopped." Is that really what I was doing? I had no idea.

I certainly would not want my simple comments to hurt the "Blimp project and, ultimately, the Ron Paul campaign".

Wow, my simple comments can have that dramatic an effect? No wonder the Neocons heads almost explode whenever Ron Paul speaks. Dr. Paul asks far more difficult questions than I, and his words have a far greater impact than my meager comments.

But I guess, Mike, you wouldn't want anyone to inhibit Dr. Paul's free speech, because he agrees with you. Way to defend that Constitution.

[Cyclone]

No one is telling the blimp donors whether or not to donate. Do you all really miss the point that much? People who want to donate to the blimp have questions that they want to have answered first. They ask the questions. Nothing gets answered, they ask again.

You come on here and tell the potential donors not to ask the questions. That stops others from wanting to donate because it makes the whole thing look questionable.

Telling people that the only way they can get an answer is to spend thousands of dollars in donations is absurd.

You want donations. I am telling you how to get them. Get the blimp team to come in here and answer questions. Telling folks to stop asking questions does not further your goal.

[Ryankelly]

Don't get angry with me. I have invested alot of money in the campaign and in the Blimp. I want to invest more. I am sure that I am only one of many potential investors that feel this way. Anyone in business undertands that you listen to your market and politely respond.

You don't tell them to shut up, question their loyalty, or ignore them.

Incidentally, potential investors should take note that it is not the Blimp Team that has engaged in these childish antics, merely some of their overzealous defenders on this board.

[mdevour]

I guess you told me. I better forget about the normal way I evaluate investments for fear I'll be accused of "embark on a program of harassment of the lady and her company, picketing, shouting questions at her at constantly, so that her work and that of her entire office is stopped." Is that really what I was doing? I had no idea.

Maybe you don't need to take this personally, Ryan!

I just clicked on your name and looked at your message history. Unless you had another account in the past, you posted for the first time on the 23rd. You've made perfectly normal looking comments on a number of topics, and, at least to me, you don't look anything like some kind of troll!

You made 12 out of your current 24 posts to the most recent fundraising thread on Grassroots Central, explaining your doubts. That's fine. They were good questions and well stated.

Now, please realize that the questions you've innocently raised last night and today come on the back of hundreds of messages posted by people with similar questions to yours, who have raised those questions and others like them multiple times every day for weeks now, have exhibited a habit of insulting and demeaning the blimp project team, and inject their negative remarks whenever anybody tries to say anything good about the project, no matter where or what the context.

Are you planning to do any of those things, Ryan?

If not, then relax. I'm not talking about you.

I am addressing a legitimate problem, where some people have taken it upon themselves to deliberately disrupt blimp activities here at ronpaulforums.

I don't claim to know their motivation. They might not look on their actions the same way I'm seeing them, but their behavior is both inexcusable and indistinguishable from that of deliberate saboteurs.

If these people are not here to damage this project for their own purposes, then they [I]really need to re-examine their behavior.

Mike D.

[walt]

Maybe you don't need to take this personally, Ryan!

I just clicked on your name and looked at your message history. Unless you had another account in the past, you posted for the first time on the 23rd. You've made perfectly normal looking comments on a number of topics, and, at least to me, you don't look anything like some kind of troll!

You made 12 out of your current 24 posts to the most recent fundraising thread on Grassroots Central, explaining your doubts. That's fine. They were good questions and well stated.

Now, please realize that the questions you've innocently raised last night and today come on the back of hundreds of messages posted by people with similar questions to yours, who have raised those questions and others like them multiple times every day for weeks now, have exhibited a habit of insulting and demeaning the blimp project team, and inject their negative remarks whenever anybody tries to say anything good about the project, no matter where or what the context.

Are you planning to do any of those things, Ryan?

If not, then relax. I'm not talking about you.

I am addressing a legitimate problem, where some people have taken it upon themselves to deliberately disrupt blimp activities here at ronpaulforums.

I don't claim to know their motivation. They might not look on their actions the same way I'm seeing them, but their behavior is both inexcusable and indistinguishable from that of deliberate saboteurs.

If these people are not here to damage this project for their own purposes, then they really need to re-examine their behavior.

Mike D.

Mike,

I wish I could say the same about all of your posts, but I can't. I'm glad blind faith works for you - unless you are somehow related to the blimp and with your suspiscious posting pattern, it seems to be the only issue you care about. :eek:

This contrasts with me, who only cares about Ron Paul winning. :D

[Ryankelly]

Mike,

You write "Are you planning to do any of those things, Ryan? If not, then relax. I'm not talking about you."

But in your previous post, Mike, you were "talking" about me. You addressed me by name in your post and dissected my post section by section. You then put some of your more histrionic statements in bold. You tell me not to take it personal, but in a message board, that is about as personal as it gets.

So allow me to get personal. Don't attack people simply because they have a different opinion from you. You only demean yourself. I care deeply about the Ron Paul campaign. I have registered as a Republican (which was hard for me), am sign waving tomorrow, have donated over $1000 to Ron Paul and $250 to the blimp. In my posts I was simply trying to offer constructive criticism. I emailed my thoughts directly to the Blimp Team to try to help them. I own a very successful business that I created over 10 years ago and I have alot of experience handling client problems. I was trying to help.

I want them to succeed. I admire much of what they have accomplished.

That said, I really think if they refocus on the Southern strategy and keep the Blimp in the air, the donations will come.

[torchbearer]

Ummm asking anyone but the attorney retained by the blimp people about the legality of the project is retarded.

:D So, i made a point, then went sign waving, then went and did some outreach in my neighborhood... finally get back home... to find...perhaps the idea didn't really set in... questions about legality should be directed to the attorney.. no one on here has the answers.
LibertyEagle, i didn't say you were retarded, i say the action of asking people on here about legalities is retarded. Now if you feel ownership in the word retarded, that has nothing to do with me. :)

Chum set, continue.

[mdevour]

Mike,

You write "Are you planning to do any of those things, Ryan? If not, then relax. I'm not talking about you."

But in your previous post, Mike, you were "talking" about me. You addressed me by name in your post and dissected my post section by section.

Hey, Ryan, I've honestly been trying very hard throughout this exchange between you and me, to carefully define the behavior I am calling out, and to not assume that you're one of the people who've been doing it.

If you're still seeing a personal attack in what I'm writing, I can only apologize to you, since it isn't my intention to accuse you of this behavior.


You then put some of your more histrionic statements in bold.

Of course I have, because I'm quite upset with the insidious negativity a few people pour out on this project at every opportunity.

Here it is again, a description of the exact behavior I'm talking about:


...hundreds of messages posted by people with similar questions to yours, who have raised those questions and others like them multiple times every day for weeks now, have exhibited a habit of insulting and demeaning the blimp project team, and inject their negative remarks whenever anybody tries to say anything good about the project, no matter where or what the context.

The impression you're giving me is that you're not one of these people... but the ultimate confirmation of that will be your choice of what to do if you don't get the answers that you're hoping for.

Do you plan to re-post your questions many times?

Do you plan to accuse, insult or demean the project staff?

Do you plan to inject negative remarks everywhere the blimp is mentioned?

Or will you just satisfy yourself that you're not going to be satisfied and move on to projects that are more suitable?

The people on here who have been abusive all along are setting up folks like you for a harder time getting answers than you deserve. The blimp people are busy, yes, but I suspect they're nowhere near as eager to visit the forums as they would be if they weren't always met with a bunch of harassing insults and demands.

As one poster described it, it's like bathing in battery acid for the blimp staff to come around here!


I care deeply about the Ron Paul campaign. I have registered as a Republican (which was hard for me), am sign waving tomorrow, have donated over $1000 to Ron Paul and $250 to the blimp. In my posts I was simply trying to offer constructive criticism. I emailed my thoughts directly to the Blimp Team to try to help them.

Excellent on all counts, sir! Then I'm confident you will not permit yourself to behave in any way that will cause harm to this project or any other.

So will you accept that I'm really not talking about you, when I describe these specific behaviors to which I object?


I was trying to help. I want them to succeed. I admire much of what they have accomplished.

I SO agree with you!

And here's hoping that they hear you, and that in time they will implement the good suggestions that are being made, answer the bulk of the questions, and go on to greater and greater success as they gain experience.

What I fear will happen is that these forums will simply become irrelevant to the blimp project because it will be impossible to do anything useful through them.


That said, I really think if they refocus on the Southern strategy and keep the Blimp in the air, the donations will come.

That's my hope as well.

For Liberty,

Mike D.

[LibertyEagle]

:D So, i made a point, then went sign waving, then went and did some outreach in my neighborhood... finally get back home... to find...perhaps the idea didn't really set in... questions about legality should be directed to the attorney.. no one on here has the answers.
LibertyEagle, i didn't say you were retarded, i say the action of asking people on here about legalities is retarded. Now if you feel ownership in the word retarded, that has nothing to do with me. :)

Chum set, continue.

And no one said you did, torchbearer. By the way, have you checked out the blimp's web page recently? There is no contact information there any longer for the attorneys. So, before you open your mouth again and insert your other foot, perhaps you should go check it. :p While you're at it, perhaps you should tell the blimp company's official liaison, McKarnin, that she shouldn't be on the forums here saying she can answer our questions.

[pacelli]

Mike D.

I mean this in the greatest respect. And yes, I've given twice to the blimp so far.

Your version:



Do you plan to re-post your questions many times?

Do you plan to accuse, insult or demean the project staff?

Do you plan to inject negative remarks everywhere the blimp is mentioned?


My version:


Do you plan to not answer people's questions many times?

Do you plan to accuse, insult or demean the grassroots?

Do you plan to inject negative remarks everywhere a question is raised about the blimp?

You come off looking as bad as the people who you vehemently oppose. You may want to re-think your strategy, you are not helping people increase their contributions to the blimp. Thanks to this wonderful thread of yours, there is now an "us vs. them" paradigm set up among the grassroots. This isn't helpful, and we didn't have one of those before you started posting.

If you want to do something productive for the blimp team (I know you blimp volunteers don't get specific directions on this), get Svillee's questions answered ASAP in this thread entitled, "$5000 for some straight answers....", started (and emailed to blimp staff) on 12/22/07 (7 days ago). I want to see the blimp fly through february, and $5000 is a hell of a lot more money than I can give.

This week was supposed to be a major fundraising week, and you have been hitting the forums hard. Why not get the questions answered, and get the blimp another $5000 ? Be a productive volunteer, then everyone wins!

Your mission, if you volunteer to accept it- Get the blimp a $5000 donor: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=63546

[Cyclone]

Quote:
Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
LibertyEagle, i didn't say you were retarded, i say the action of asking people on here about legalities is retarded. Now if you feel ownership in the word retarded, that has nothing to do with me.

Chum set, continue.

That is way out of line torchbearer! Remove that post immediately. And for your information, the blimp team has an FEC lawyer on it, so asking questions of the team includes the lawyer! And I can't imagine anyone who would have more information about the law on the FEC than that guy!
Edit/Delete Message

[torchbearer]

And no one said you did, torchbearer. By the way, have you checked out the blimp's web page recently? There is no contact information there any longer for the attorneys. So, before you open your mouth again and insert your other foot, perhaps you should go check it. :p While you're at it, perhaps you should tell the blimp company's official liaison, McKarnin, that she shouldn't be on the forums here saying she can answer our questions.

bsmith@law.capital.edu was that hard?

[torchbearer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by torchbearer View Post
LibertyEagle, i didn't say you were retarded, i say the action of asking people on here about legalities is retarded. Now if you feel ownership in the word retarded, that has nothing to do with me.

Chum set, continue.

That is way out of line torchbearer! Remove that post immediately. And for your information, the blimp team has an FEC lawyer on it, so asking questions of the team includes the lawyer! And I can't imagine anyone who would have more information about the law on the FEC than that guy!
Edit/Delete Message

:rolleyes: go wave a sign or hand out slim jims, you are spending way too much time in here...how do i know? you are freaking out over nothing. :D

[torchbearer]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/893011/OMFG-ONOZ.gif

One more for the road..

[all4one]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/893011/OMFG-ONOZ.gif

One more for the road..

LOL :D