Legal help please: nearly arrested for asking a question

[RonPaulFever]

Tonight I was invited to a friend's house to play a little guitar and just hang out for a bit. There were 5 or 6 of us there, and I guess we got a little bit loud because the neighbors called the police. The cops showed up and advised us that we were to turn the music down, or risk facing a citation the next time they were called.

Here's where it gets interesting. Two of my friends were at the door talking to the police, reassuring them that we would turn down the music and that there would be no future problems. I thought that would be the end of it, but then the cops asked to see both of their ID's. One of them, who incidentally had a warrant out for his arrest, said he had no ID and then proceeded to give him a fake name. He was then arrested, and brought back inside to let us know what was going on and if we could help bail him out.

I proceeded to ask the officer why the gentleman had been arrested, and if he could please cite the statute or constitutional provision that allowed for this. I did it in a very respectful way, and the next thing I knew the cop freaked out and put me in handcuffs! He was being very belligerent and nasty. The more questions I asked, being very respectful the entire time, the angrier they got and they eventually put me in the back of a police car, handcuffed.

Eventually he let me out of the car and quoted me the citation, citing "obstruction of justice".....but my friend still went to jail. They told me that next time I had "better keep my mouth shut" and that "I hope you learned your lesson."

Was I in the wrong? Everyone else at the party was pissed at me, and I was trying to explain to them how ridiculous it was that I got (almost) arrested for asking a question.

[Man from La Mancha]

That was one of those children bullies who grew up to be a cop. Sorry to here it. It should have been OK to ask, next time have it videoed before you ask.IMO
Are there any policeman here that can answer this?
.

[ctb619]

If your story is accurate you should have a civil rights lawyer send a letter to the police department that detained you.

[Nyte]

Wow. You need to file a complaint immediately. What BS.

[RonPaulFever]

If anyone has any advice where i could get free legal counsel, it would be much appreciated. Should I call the ACLU? I'm just wondering how far I could actually get with this since I wasn't really arrested.....just detained briefly in a police car.

[ctb619]

Question, what would possess your friend that had a warrant to answer the door and talk to the cops? He should have locked himself in the bathroom.

[ctb619]

If anyone has any advice where i could get free legal counsel, it would be much appreciated. .

What state?

[RonPaulFever]

What state?

Illinois.

[RonPaulFever]

Question, what would possess your friend that had a warrant to answer the door and talk to the cops? He should have locked himself in the bathroom.

I assume he just wanted to do the right thing and cooperate like a good citizen.

[Ara825]

Our tax dollars hard at work.
If Ron Paul doesn't win this election (I believe he will) then I don't think I want to continue living in this country. Too much of this kind of abuse, too damn much. I am so afraid for the future of my children and grandchildren. I've warned my four grandsons, who are all teens, to tread easy if confronted by the police.

[Nyte]

You probably wont get far. Police can detain you for pretty much any reason.

But filling a complaint will show up on his record.

[eric_cartman]

it sounds like total BS that you had cuffs put on you and were detained... but if you're not charged with anything, i would just leave it alone. it's not worth your time to bother doing anything. spend that time campaigning for ron paul. it will take a lot of time and effort for you to actually do anything, and you're not going to see a lot of results. i know it can be frustrating, and i support people who want to stand up for their rights... but you're just going to cause yourself a lot of hassle. you might as well use that time constructively and campaign for ron paul.

[RonPaulFever]

it sounds like total BS that you had cuffs put on you and were detained... but if you're not charged with anything, i would just leave it alone. it's not worth your time to bother doing anything. spend that time campaigning for ron paul. it will take a lot of time and effort for you to actually do anything, and you're not going to see a lot of results. i know it can be frustrating, and i support people who want to stand up for their rights... but you're just going to cause yourself a lot of hassle. you might as well use that time constructively and campaign for ron paul.

I campaign every day. This is an entirely seperate matter that I am seeking advice on from some of the people here who are experienced in legal/constitutional matters.

[ctb619]

I assume he just wanted to do the right thing and cooperate like a good citizen.

Right, but when the cops come to the door everyone in the house doesn't have to go talk to them, especially for a public nuisance complaint.

[Benaiah]

//

[RonPaulFever]

I think that police can detain you for any reason, just not for an unreasonable amount of time.


What about the "asking for ID's," though?? Does anyone know the law on this? Do you have to show an ID if you haven't done anything? I was sign-waving a few weeks ago and some cops pulled up. They said that somebody called the police and said I was soliciting (which I wasn't). They asked for my ID and I asked why, and they stated that they had a right to see it because somebody called the cops about me. They said that I wasn't doing anything wrong, but because somebody called the cops they had a right to see my ID. I have nothing to hide and cooperated, but that just bugs the heck out of me.

Do you have to show an ID whenever a cop wants to see it?

IIRC, that is part of either the Military Commissions Act or the Patriot Act....any refusal to show ID is illegal and cause for arrest.

[cj7dave]

In my experience with the law, Ive never been put in jail, but i've been harassed by the cops lots, even saw a lawyer a few times to try and fight it, but nothing will ever be done about what they did, even though its probably illegal. Most people, including judges and whomever don't see this stuff as important. It sucks but unfortunately it is the truth nowadays.

[derdy]

IIRC, that is part of either the Military Commissions Act or the Patriot Act....any refusal to show ID is illegal and cause for arrest.

Did you get a badge number so you can file a complaint?

[RonPaulFever]

Did you get a badge number so you can file a complaint?

I just called the Sheriffs's dept. and they gave me a number to call to file a complaint. I was too flustered and intimidated at the time to think about getting a badge number. It was only because I was being super courteous that they decided to let me go and I didn't want to press my luck.

[ronpaultvchannel]

WE WILL COUNT ALL THE RON PAUL VOTES !!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE CAN CHEAT US!!!!!

SORRY I NEED THIS WEBSITE TO GO VIRAL PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBSITE

ITS ABOUT MAKING SURE ALL RON PAUL VOTES GET COUNTED , THIS IS HOW WE WILL

SECURE RON PAUL'S VOTES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://wecountr3volution.com/

[Menthol Patch]

The majority of police officers HATE people who know their rights.

[Wyurm]

The majority of police officers HATE people who know their rights.

It also depends on where you live, etc... There tends to be a prejudice that knowing your rights means you must be breaking the law.

[Castrensis]

Great information on how to survive a police encounter with your rights intact:

http://www.flexyourrights.org/index.php

From their FAQ:


7. When do I have to show ID?

This is a tricky issue. As a general principle, citizens who are minding their own business are not obligated to "show their papers" to police. In fact, there is no law requiring citizens to carry identification of any kind.

Nonetheless, carrying an ID is required when you’re driving or flying. Driving without a license is a crime, and no one is allowed to board an airplane without first presenting an ID. These requirements have been upheld on the premise that individuals who prefer not to carry ID can choose not to drive or fly.

From here, ID laws only get more complicated. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to disclose their identity to police when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as 'stop and identify' statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

Currently the following states have stop and identify laws: AL, AR, CO, DE, FL, GA, IL, KS, LA, MO, MT, NE, NH, NM, NV, NY, ND, RI, UT, VT, WI

Regardless of your state's law, keep in mind that police can never compel you to identify yourself without reasonable suspicion to believe you're involved in criminal activity. Rather than asking the officer if he/she has reasonable suspicion, test it yourself by asking if you're free to go.

If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and refrain from answering any additional questions.

If the officer detains you, you'll have to decide whether withholding your identity is worth the possibility of arrest or a prolonged detention. In cases of mistaken identity, revealing who you are might help to resolve the situation quickly. On the other hand, if you're on parole in California, for example, revealing your identity could lead to a legal search. Knowing your state's laws can help you make the best choice.

Keep in mind that the officer's decision to detain you will not always hold up in court. ‘Reasonable suspicion' is a vague evidentiary standard, which lends itself to mistakes on the officer's part. If you're searched or arrested following an officer's ID request, always contact an attorney to discuss the incident and explore your legal options.

[TXcarlosTX]

you dont need anyone to RE-present you. you can present yourself. send a letter ect ect. ask them to show you statute or law for what they did. ( a statute is not law, it has the force of law once you accept it) and then when you write letter introduce yourself as the - Agent for the Corporate Person (YOUR NAME IS CAPS) and also tell them in your letter your claiming common law jurisdiction. and if you dont get any remedy. you will take the next step necessary.

do some research on the honor and dishonor process.

[hamilton1049]

If you are going to challenge authority in a Police State know where you stand before you act, choose your battles wisely, and don't hang around with sheeple who aren't going to back you up.

[lynnf]

...

I proceeded to ask the officer why the gentleman had been arrested, and if he could please cite the statute or constitutional provision that allowed for this. I did it in a very respectful way, and the next thing I knew the cop freaked out and put me in handcuffs! He was being very belligerent and nasty. The more questions I asked, being very respectful the entire time, the angrier they got and they eventually put me in the back of a police car, handcuffed.

Eventually he let me out of the car and quoted me the citation, citing "obstruction of justice".....but my friend still went to jail. They told me that next time I had "better keep my mouth shut" and that "I hope you learned your lesson."

Was I in the wrong? Everyone else at the party was pissed at me, and I was trying to explain to them how ridiculous it was that I got (almost) arrested for asking a question.



you weren't almost arrested, you were arrested! to support this, consider what would have happened if you had refused to present your hands for cuffing, or pulled them away from the cuffs -- they would have arrested you for resisting arrest


the definition of arrest from dictionary.com: to seize (a person) by legal authority or warrant; take into custody

you were in custody, but you weren't booked - that is what people get confused about arrest, they confuse it with booking. so you were in fact, falsely arrested!

lynn

[krott5333]

no, you were not wrong at all.

question police. If you think something is wrong, QUESTION IT. SPEAK UP. It is better to speak up and pay the consequences than to give in to the always increasing police state.

Its getting out of control, and you've seen it first hand.

[jointhefightforfreedom]

I would educate yourself on your local laws first!
knowledge is power!

i had a similar incident last year at a new years eve party!
our local noise ordinance was after 10pm
police knocked on the door a little after 9pm and tried to enter the house and cite the homeowner for noise violation
I promptly went to the front door
asked the officer if he had a search warrant , he said no
He tried to inform me the homeowner was in violation of noise ordinances
I told him you are mistaken and there won't be any citations written here before 10pm
He then asked if there were any minors in the house and could he enter the house
just to "check things out"
without answering his question i responded with:
"do you have a search warrant?" he said no
i then told him to get off the property and don't bother coming back because we won't be violating the noise ordinance after 10 pm
know your rights and stand strong to defend them!!!!
Many police depts. across this country employ officers with very little education
I don't care what uniform you are wearing if you enter my home without a warrant
you are in severe danger of being shot!

[enjoiskaterguy]

WE WILL COUNT ALL THE RON PAUL VOTES !!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE CAN CHEAT US!!!!!

SORRY I NEED THIS WEBSITE TO GO VIRAL PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBSITE

ITS ABOUT MAKING SURE ALL RON PAUL VOTES GET COUNTED , THIS IS HOW WE WILL

SECURE RON PAUL'S VOTES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://wecountr3volution.com/


thanks dude....yeah this is VERY important. You need some sort of license or forms to be able to do that legitablly i think though.

[lynnf]

I think that police can detain you for any reason, just not for an unreasonable amount of time.


What about the "asking for ID's," though?? Does anyone know the law on this? Do you have to show an ID if you haven't done anything? I was sign-waving a few weeks ago and some cops pulled up. They said that somebody called the police and said I was soliciting (which I wasn't). They asked for my ID and I asked why, and they stated that they had a right to see it because somebody called the cops about me. They said that I wasn't doing anything wrong, but because somebody called the cops they had a right to see my ID. I have nothing to hide and cooperated, but that just bugs the heck out of me.

Do you have to show an ID whenever a cop wants to see it?


the Supreme Court answered this question, at least until it can be changed, in this case where it found that ID must be produced:

In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the conviction of Larry Dudley Hiibel.

Hiibel had violated a Nevada statute that requires persons temporarily detained on "reasonable suspicion" of criminal activity to identify themselves to a police officer.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/24/dorf.police.id/index.html

lynn

[familydog]

You shouldn't have been put in hand cuffs, but the cop was well within his power to ask for IDs. It's his responsibility. I'm not suggesting its right, but there you have it.

[SovereignMN]

Here's what happened to me 12 years ago when I was 18. Me and two friends were driving on the interstate to go play mini-golf when a state trooper pulled me over. I was driving my parents car and didn't realize the tabs were expired. Ok, not a huge deal. It'll just be a standard ticket.

The trooper then asked me "Have you guys been drinking or smoking marajuana?" I truthfully answered her "no". Neither of us had ever touched the stuff. She flat out said "I don't believe you. Step out of the car." She then cuffed me, put me in the back of the squad car and proceeded to search my entire vehicle for 10 minutes. Of course she found nothing. When she came back to the squad car she left me cuffed in the backseat while she wrote out the "expired tab" citation for another 5-10 minutes. Finally, after 15-20 minutes of being cuffed she says "I'm going to let you go because I didn't find anything but I know what I smelled up there. I advise you to stop drinking and smoking because next time you will get caught."

I never bothered to file a complaint against that cop but in hindsight I wish I would have. I advise you to do the same.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

I'm no legal expert, but I can't see where that would be a violation of any law...

[JoBurke]

WE WILL COUNT ALL THE RON PAUL VOTES !!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE CAN CHEAT US!!!!!

SORRY I NEED THIS WEBSITE TO GO VIRAL PLEASE VISIT THIS WEBSITE

ITS ABOUT MAKING SURE ALL RON PAUL VOTES GET COUNTED , THIS IS HOW WE WILL

SECURE RON PAUL'S VOTES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://wecountr3volution.com/


Here is the link: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=62752

I still think it would be a great visible aid to our cause!

After reading about how supporters cant wait to get out and vote...I had an idea - maybe it has been suggested before or maybe not....but I think it could be a great tool in "evaluation" and "controlling" the goings on during these primarys, etc....

What if we had a universally recognized and utilized sticker that you would put on your shirt after voting for Ron Paul - simply and maybe to at the very least show presence - after voting, just as a visual reminder that these are Ron Paul votes much more than any others.....

for example...a distinct color like flouresent green with like "I just voted for Dr. Paul" then you see at all of the venues droves of people walking around with these....good for the press shooting pictures, good for the fellow voters, maybe even for the undecided who will be inspired by the sheer amount of "green stickers" walking around everywhere.....it would be hard to fix ballots that much if 85% of people who come out from voting automatically and demonstratingly placed a large green sticker above their heart and went about their business....

Just an idea - anything that will send a message and deter fraud.
><

[belian78]

yeah, honestly when your friend gave them a fake name, that gave them the reason to arrest him. He should have stayed away from the conversation all together, unless it was his house, in which case he had no leg to stand on legally. It is rather bunk that they went asking for ID's, but unfortunately that's the way things have gotten in this country. ESPECIALLY in Illinois, believe me, i've lived here my whole life.

As for your situation, I dont agree with them putting you in cuffs, but they saw you as a possible problem. They were well within their duties to arrest the guy with the warrant, and you were questioning them on it. I'm not defending them in anyway, just playing devil's advocate.

[Ozwest]

To begin with, if you have a security door (screen door) keep it shut or locked. Open the hardwood door, speak with the police, and comply with the officers to turn down the music. No other information need be given.

Do not allow them to cross the threshold (enter your house) as this is considered an invitation and they will take full advantage of it.

Be polite, but never succumb to requests made by the police which exceed their legal perameters. They are trained to cajole and intimidate you, and will use your gullibility to their own advantage.

[TruckinMike]

Read this book --

"You and the Police" --- Boston T. Party

http://www.amazon.com/You-Police-Boston-T-Party/dp/1888766018

This book will give you a good idea of how to handle yourself with the police. And Boston has other great books as well.

Note:You should read Boston's Gun Bible at least once early on in your life ---- then pass it down to your children.

TruckinMike

[Patriot]

Post the e-mail address of the police dept/chief. We can all let him know what we think of this kind of abuse.

[Ninja Homer]

RonPaulFever, you were in the right, the cops were wrong. However, I'd heavily consider whether this is worth it for you to fight. If it was just you, I'd say yes, it's worth fighting, but this may effect more than just you. Your friend was arrested. You need to consider how your actions could help or hurt his case.

[BravoSix]

I see a bit of misinformation in this thread.

Now, I'm not an attorney, and this certainly isn't legal advice, but I am a police officer, and one who understand his Constitutional responsibility and the oath I took to defend that Constitution.

The police were wrong.

They can most certainly ask for identification. Hell, they can ask for anything they want. That doesn't mean they can compel you to produce ID.

In order to have the authority to compel you to comply, two things must occur. First, there must be a statute in place requiring you to identify yourself when stopped upon reasonable suspicion. It would seem the Illinois does have just such a statute.

Second, you must be stopped based upon reasonable suspicion. From your account of the events, you were not. Therefore, your arrest was unalwful.

Now, as to your friend, if he was arrested solely upon giving a false name, then his arrest was also unlawful. As he was not detained due to reasonable suspicion, he is uder no obligation to provide ID or to give his name. In fact, he can give any false name he wants in this instance.

However, if his true identity was discovered, and he was then arrested on the outstanding warrant, then his arrest is legitimate.

Now, "obstruction of justice" is often a catch-all statute that police will use when nothing really fits....sort of how they often use Disorderly Conduct. I am not intimately familiar with Illinois law, but most state stutes dealing with this require an affirmative action on your part, and that action itself must physical obstruct justice. In Pennsylvania, where I'm from, the act used to obstruct must also be unlawful.

You asking a question, assuming that's all you did, is certainly not obstructing anything.

Personally, I would not let it go. I don't know that you'll have much recourse civilly, as your "injury" was minimal. However, I would certainly follow up with a complaint to the officer's superiors.

It's ignorant cops like this that give the rest of us a bad name.

[slamhead]

I think that police can detain you for any reason, just not for an unreasonable amount of time.


What about the "asking for ID's," though?? Does anyone know the law on this? Do you have to show an ID if you haven't done anything? I was sign-waving a few weeks ago and some cops pulled up. They said that somebody called the police and said I was soliciting (which I wasn't). They asked for my ID and I asked why, and they stated that they had a right to see it because somebody called the cops about me. They said that I wasn't doing anything wrong, but because somebody called the cops they had a right to see my ID. I have nothing to hide and cooperated, but that just bugs the heck out of me.

Do you have to show an ID whenever a cop wants to see it?

There was a case I remember when I took some law classes. It involved a black man that lived in La Jolla California, a very affluent area in Southern California. This man besides being black and having dread locked hair, was highly educated, IIRC, several master degrees and a PHD. He liked to walk and on his walks he was stopped several times in his own neighborhood by the local sheriff and asked to produce an ID. Upon not producing an ID he would be arrested as there was a law on the books that allowed for this. This person was later vindicated by the US Supreme court as he showed the law was arbitrarily enforced under Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution.

Chances are your friend will lose as he provided false information to a peace officer.

This is why as citizens you should never pass up the opportunity to serve on a Jury. In the beginning the founding fathers applied the common law principle to prosecution where in the jury had the right to question both the commonality of the law being broken and not just whether the person broke the law. The judicial system has since taken over powers it was never intended to have and now instructs juries to only look at whether the person broke the law. It was meant for the people to have the ultimate say over the President, congress, and the judge. A vote of not guilty in the jury room is your way to overrule the government. So next time don't try and get out of jury duty.

[TruckinMike]

A vote of not guilty in the jury room is your way to overrule the government. So next time don't try and get out of jury duty.

+1

TM

[Oldguard]

You probably wont get far. Police can detain you for pretty much any reason.

But filling a complaint will show up on his record. And it may even help him get a promotion.

[Captain Shays]

Maybe this will help you all to understand your rights. For the author of the launch post, don't neglect to view the video with the young lady who refuses to allow the police inside without a search warrant

http://www.flexyourrights.org/busted/movie_clips

[Arklatex]

Yeah, you are totally in the right. That officer will get a talking too, I know of an officer that did something very similar to this and he is now looking for employment.

[robert4rp08]

Great information on how to survive a police encounter with your rights intact:

http://www.flexyourrights.org/index.php

From their FAQ:

That's incorrect. You _CAN_ fly without ID. http://papersplease.org/gilmore/decision.html

[RonPaulFever]

Thanks for all the replies, especially BravoSix. I'm looking into this matter further and am in the process of filing a complaint with the sheriff's department. And when the ACLU decides to come back from lunch, I'll be speaking to them as well.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Yeah, you are totally in the right. That officer will get a talking too, I know of an officer that did something very similar to this and he is now looking for employment.


I know of several officers who have done things similar to this, and I'm sure they're still doing whatever they like. I know of one who arrested a sober person for public intoxication. That cop (constable in this case) was so drunk himself, he backed into a tree while leaving for the jail. I got several stories, unfortunately. :(

The thing is... once it's done, it's done. It's usually not worth the time or money to continue the issue.

[phoenixrising]

Here's what happened to me 12 years ago when I was 18. Me and two friends were driving on the interstate to go play mini-golf when a state trooper pulled me over. I was driving my parents car and didn't realize the tabs were expired. Ok, not a huge deal. It'll just be a standard ticket.

The trooper then asked me "Have you guys been drinking or smoking marajuana?" I truthfully answered her "no". Neither of us had ever touched the stuff. She flat out said "I don't believe you. Step out of the car." She then cuffed me, put me in the back of the squad car and proceeded to search my entire vehicle for 10 minutes. Of course she found nothing. When she came back to the squad car she left me cuffed in the backseat while she wrote out the "expired tab" citation for another 5-10 minutes. Finally, after 15-20 minutes of being cuffed she says "I'm going to let you go because I didn't find anything but I know what I smelled up there. I advise you to stop drinking and smoking because next time you will get caught."

I never bothered to file a complaint against that cop but in hindsight I wish I would have. I advise you to do the same.
i highly rec. everyone taking the time to watch the videos on the website that was mentioned earlier. it's recommended that u view them more than once--so u don't get caught off guard when 1 of those situations happens to u. http://www.flexyourrights.org/index.php

also...in the case of the cop wanting to search your car--u need to repeat (several times if necessary) "i do not consent to a search" the key word is *consent* ...& they have to abide.

u need to be familiar w/tricky languaging on their part "...do u mind if i search" " do u mind if i enter" etc.... the person above who retorted w/wanting a search warrant did PRECISELY the correct thing & they cannot enter.

so too.they cannot search your car if u do not *consent*...KNOW the words...know what to say...& seriously--watching those videos will help!! they may appear lame & repetitive at a certain pt...yet it's doe this way --so we REMEMBER what to say, how to act, when needed. u need to know your rights & HOW to *exercise them*

[Malakai0]

A lot of people have claimed that police are taught to be very hostile to people who talk about their rights or the Constitution.

I have also had extreme hostility come up when asking an officer a question of that nature.


If it makes you feel better, I would have refused to let the officer in my house and also refused to show my ID. Local police =/ gestapo, though they think otherwise at times.

[BravoSix]

RonPaulFever, no problem. If you have any other questions, I will be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. My responses are not as effective as advice from an attortney licensed to practice in your state, but I do have the unique advantage of actually being a cop and understanding their perspective (and what they're trained to do and say).

I have zero tolerance for an officer that is ignorant of their Constitutional bounds, which is often the case. When a police officer crosses the line, it is rarely done knowingly, but moreso out of ignorance. They just don't know. Of course, this doesn't excuse their behavior at all, as it is their job to know.

As an aside, it is very very common for people to syddenly become roadside lawyers when dealing with the police. Unfortunately, the vast majority of these people have no clue as to their rights and the protection the US Constitution (and their state constitution) affords them. What ends up happening is they rely on TV to determine what is right and wrong, and then threaten to have me fired if I didn't mirandize them, give them their one phone call, "entrapped" them or "harassed" them, while they have no understanding whatsoever of those legal concepts.

The end result is that many officers have a negative reaction when they hear (what they assume to be) another one of these people spouting off. When you couple that with an ignorant officer, you end up with a bad situation. So you see, I would suggest that it's more of a situation created by circumstance than actual training to respond in a hostile manner to any mention of the Constitution.

In fact, I welcome these types of responses from people because it affords me the opportunity to correct them and then scold them a bit for not knowing their rights and how to articulate them. :-)

[pacelli]

FEAR TACTICS. There are a great deal of wonderful LEO's out there who respect our rights and do their jobs. And then there's the handful of steroid-laden bullies who hide behind their badge and gun. They like to impose their authority on people.

Yeah, you'd better shut up, or we'll trump up a charge and let you sit in a cell until the judge feels like seeing you.

This country is headed in a very bad direction.

[ExpatinArgentina]

Our tax dollars hard at work.
If Ron Paul doesn't win this election (I believe he will) then I don't think I want to continue living in this country. Too much of this kind of abuse, too damn much. I am so afraid for the future of my children and grandchildren. I've warned my four grandsons, who are all teens, to tread easy if confronted by the police.

And if Ron Paul wins, I might go back.

[LibertiORDeth]

Our tax dollars hard at work.
If Ron Paul doesn't win this election (I believe he will) then I don't think I want to continue living in this country. Too much of this kind of abuse, too damn much. I am so afraid for the future of my children and grandchildren. I've warned my four grandsons, who are all teens, to tread easy if confronted by the police.

I'm going to head over to New Hampshire and join the Free State Project, then if we still get put under to much control I'll go on the Indian reservation, (the one that declared independence from the US) THEN I'll leave the country.

[nc4rp]

before you go filing a complaint at the police station, you better have a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p53ky3RIjfU just fair warning. good luck. and to the poster who said keep the screen door shut- forget it, cops can and will do whatever they want AND get away with it. best bet is to spend your time and energy campaigning for Dr. Paul IMO.

[Crickett]

Boy//do I agree with you. The Patriot act and these new HR acts are taking ALL of our liberties. We can be arrested for almost anything or nothing==just suspician..and habeas corpus? Well, it may not be a right anymore. Along with not having an id.

[work2win]

In addition to knowing your rights, the best thing you can do is prepare yourself mentally for the lies and trickery that the bad police officers so often use. They are masters of psychological warfare and will use a variety of strategies to throw you off balance and get you talking so you'll self-incriminate or give them a reason to investigate further.

They use a couple different angles. One of these is the "Friend" angle. This is where they try to make you think they are laid back and are your friend. They try to get you relaxed so you'll start talking and answer all their questions.

Another angle is where they sweat you hard in order to get you to try and "prove" your own innocence or just plain buckle under the pressure. In any case, be prepared for off-the-wall stuff and even outright lies used to see how you react and get you talking. Examples:

"I smell X"
"I saw you do X"
"You look like X"

As another poster mentioned above, they also will use tricky wording when asking to search your vehicle or come in your house. You are are ready to say "NO" to a search request, then you get hit with the following line:

"Would you mind if I searched your vehicle?"


Remember the following response that works no matter how they word their search request:

"I do NOT consent to any searches"

[jonahtrainer]

If your story is accurate you should have a civil rights lawyer send a letter to the police department that detained you.



You, your family and everyone you know should watch BUSTED.

I doubt you have much of a case even though an injustice has occurrd. I know I wouldn't take the case based on these facts.

[ionlyknowy]

If you want to take civil action against the officer, then the cause of action would be

False imprisonment
1. Must intend to confine within boundaries 2. Actions directly or indirectly result in confinement 3. Other is conscious of or harmed by confinement.

The only problem as BravoSix stated is that your harm was minimal.

In your case the damage would be emotional distress.

Therefore, you could also file a suit for

Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress
1. One who by extreme and outrageous conduct intentionally or recklessly causes severe emotional distress to another is subject to liability for such emotional distress, and if bodily harm to the other results from it, for such bodily harm. 2. Where such conduct is directed at a third person, the actor is subject to liability if he intentionally or recklessly causes severe emotional distress (a) To a member of such a person's immediate family who is present at the time, whether or not such distress results in bodily harm. Or (b) To any other person who is present at the time, if such distress results in bodily harm.

Good luck!

[bbachtung]

Tonight I was invited to a friend's house to play a little guitar and just hang out for a bit. There were 5 or 6 of us there, and I guess we got a little bit loud because the neighbors called the police. The cops showed up and advised us that we were to turn the music down, or risk facing a citation the next time they were called.

Here's where it gets interesting. Two of my friends were at the door talking to the police, reassuring them that we would turn down the music and that there would be no future problems. I thought that would be the end of it, but then the cops asked to see both of their ID's. One of them, who incidentally had a warrant out for his arrest, said he had no ID and then proceeded to give him a fake name. He was then arrested, and brought back inside to let us know what was going on and if we could help bail him out.

I proceeded to ask the officer why the gentleman had been arrested, and if he could please cite the statute or constitutional provision that allowed for this. I did it in a very respectful way, and the next thing I knew the cop freaked out and put me in handcuffs! He was being very belligerent and nasty. The more questions I asked, being very respectful the entire time, the angrier they got and they eventually put me in the back of a police car, handcuffed.

Eventually he let me out of the car and quoted me the citation, citing "obstruction of justice".....but my friend still went to jail. They told me that next time I had "better keep my mouth shut" and that "I hope you learned your lesson."

Was I in the wrong? Everyone else at the party was pissed at me, and I was trying to explain to them how ridiculous it was that I got (almost) arrested for asking a question.

Your friend should have refused to identify himself (rather than giving a false name); in most states, it is a separate crime to provide a false name for purposes of avoiding service of an arrest warrant (it is in Oregon, where I practice).

You shouldn't try to play the smart guy with cops; you will either piss them off and get arrested on trumped-up charges or just add to your friend's problem. It is perfectly alright to ask an officer if you are free to leave / why am I being detained / I would like a lawyer, but doing anything more than that risks getting your ass stuck in a crappy situation. It may not be right, but if you want to continue to enjoy the party, you should leave the questions to the person being arrested.

My best (defense attorney) advice is: keep a low-profile, don't answer police questions, and never consent to a search.

[propanes]

edit

[Gordon]

Good videos

[Ron Galt]

These days, you were lucky they just didn't use you for taser practice.

[Matt Collins]

She flat out said "I don't believe you. Step out of the car." She then cuffed me, put me in the back of the squad car and proceeded to search my entire vehicle for 10 minutes. You should've simply said "I do not consent to a search" and "I do not give you or any other law enforcement officer permission to search myself, my vehicle, or any other property".

Unless she truly smelled something which could raise reasonable suspicion, (hard to prove, right?) then she would be in violation of your rights.

[Matt Collins]

It's ignorant cops like this that give the rest of us a bad name.Thank you for your service as an honest and principled law enforcement officer who tries to secure our rights instead of violate them. If more LEOs took your attitude then perhaps there would not be as much contempt against LEOs in this country.

Your desire to be educated on the law is appreciated.