Best Bang for Buck help

[Dieseler]

Heyas

I'm lookin forward to a purchase for home security, firearms of course and I have $1000.00 window to work with.

I'm thinking along the lines of a good shotgun and automatic pistol but I also have about 20lbs of .762x39 left over from when I owned a Sks rifle a few years back.

I live in Alabama and know nothing at the moment regarding the newer laws so could use a little help there to as far as weapon legality.

Any info on Alabama concealed carry would be great. I don't intend to carry a lot, but I feel that it might be a good idea to get the permit so I can carry at least to my local firing range.

Thanks ahead of time for any replies, I have enjoyed reading the posts here in
Bearing Arms.

[AFM]

Consider an FGM-148

[Dieseler]

Consider an FGM-148

Serious stopping power there no doubt and I have considered all of the shoulder fired missiles but that range is a bit of an issue for me in the house. Need ideas more along the lines of close quarters in home defense firearms that fall within my budget.

lol, thanks for the laugh, good one. :D

[DerekinBama]

PM just sent.

80% of people shot with a handgun survive. 20% of people shot with a rifle survive. You already have a start in ammo for an AK, which is an excellent choice for an all-purpose (home defense, combat, deer hunting) rifle. You can probably find a good one for under $400, which leaves you room for more mags, trigger work and a pistol suitable for concealed carry.

I would recommend rethinking the "don't intend to carry a lot" thought, as all research shows that when you need a gun to save a life, you need it right now, which means you need to have it on you.

Derek

[john_anderson_ii]

If you have tons of ammo laying about, I'm willing to bet that it's of the full metal jacket variety. Seriously consider the kind of neighborhood you live in before deciding to get an AK or another weapon that fires that round for in-home defense. In most states, even if you are defending yourself, you are still responsible for any damages/injuries that result from over penetration of the rounds. If you do decide on using 7.62x39 for home defense, get some jacketed hollow points that will deform, destabilize, and loose velocity when they strike a solid surface, like your exterior walls. It's all about striking the balance between minimizing your risk and maximizing effectiveness.

For in-home defense use what you have, but nothing beats a shotgun and 0 or 00 buck.

[youngbuck]

For $1,000, I would get 2 guns. Get a 12 gauge shotgun for around $350. You can get a pretty good one for that much. Remington Model 870, Winchester Model 1300, Mossberg Model 590. There are many variations of each of those models.

If you would rather get a pistol instead of a shotty, some decent revolvers can be had for the same price, or some military surplus semi-autos such as Bulgarian Makarovs.

With the left over money, get for that stash of ammo you got. I would recommend the VEPR II by Robinson Armament.

[Brainiaq]

Heyas

I'm lookin forward to a purchase for home security, firearms of course and I have $1000.00 window to work with.

I'm thinking along the lines of a good shotgun and automatic pistol but I also have about 20lbs of .762x39 left over from when I owned a Sks rifle a few years back.

I live in Alabama and know nothing at the moment regarding the newer laws so could use a little help there to as far as weapon legality.

Any info on Alabama concealed carry would be great. I don't intend to carry a lot, but I feel that it might be a good idea to get the permit so I can carry at least to my local firing range.

Thanks ahead of time for any replies, I have enjoyed reading the posts here in
Bearing Arms.

-1

[Richard in Austin]

http://www.thehighroad.org/

http://www.ammoman.com/

http://www.ammoman.com/

Good luck, and enjoy shopping!

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/459/Guns/Rifles/Mosin-Nagant-Rifles-Carbines.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/8/Guns/Rifles/AK-47-Rifles.htm

[Malum Prohibitum]

PM just sent.
80% of people shot with a pistol survive, 20% of people shot with a rifle survive
Derek

I would venture to guess that most people shot with a handgun are not shot with a .45.

[Malum Prohibitum]

For home defense, I like a Springfield XD in .45, loaded with jhp and a vanilla 20 guage short barrel shotgun loaded with 0 or 1 buckshot. (I have concerns about overpenetration and harming neighbors if a projectile makes it out a window, and my wife is much more comfortable shooting the 20g than the 12.)

You can buy both of these at once, and walk out with enough cash left over for mags and ammo.

[1000-points-of-fright]

-1

I don't understand.

[Swamp Fox]

Dieseler - the advice here has been good.

I'd go with a 12g Mossberg and load the shells from light to heavy - the first two are warning shots, and then increase the volume - "can you hear me now?"! (So load it backwards in the tube - big loads in first, lighter in last.)

If you've got 7.62x39, look for a used MAK-90. You may find one for under $300 (or better). I can group 7,8,9's at 100yds with iron sights.

Get a pistol in 9mm. Most guys don't find it as sexy as .45 cal, but the ammo is way cheaper and readily available.

The real secret: practice is key for proficiency and accuracy. Spend the last of your bucks on a gun club membership! You'll have fun, make new friends and learn tons of information.
Good luck! :)

.

[amy31416]

What do you guys think about the Mossberg Persuader? How about a .38 S&W vs. a semi-automatic?

[Swamp Fox]

amy31416,
You can't go wrong with the Mossberg!

Being a woman, (I'm 5'7") the standard Mossberg stock was too long for a comfortable fit and I found myself doing that typical "woman thing" where I was leaning back to compensate for the awkwardness of the long stock - instead of properly shouldering the rifle and leaning forward in a tactical stance. The solution was to replace the butt stock with a 6 position ATI stock. Be careful though, some state regulations may have issues with the overall gun length. So to make the butt stock a "permanent" & lawful length, we fit the butt stock to my size and and put a couple of small stainless screws in to secure it at that length.
[Side note: I painted the screw heads matte black to match the rest of my 590 SP-9 and it looks sweet!]

The S&W .38 revolver was the first pistol I ever owned and I still have it to this day! A snubnose Model 10.
The beauty of the revolver is that you know it's going to fire 99.99% of the time.
However, the capacity is limited, usually 6 shots, and they are much harder to conceal because of width - if you were looking to carry concealed on your person.

A semi auto has a higher round capacity and is thinner for concealed carry, but they are not 99.99% reliable. Again, being female and having smaller hands, I chose to go with a single stack magazine weapon versus a double stack because it fits my hand better. If I concealed carried on my person, my choice would be the Sig Sauer .380 Model P232

I tend to shoot my semi-autos way more accurately than the revolver. In fact, I don't know anyone who has shot my revolver particularly well. It is certainly a close range weapon.
Just my two cents! ;)

[jdmac44]

+1 on the shotgun for home defense. Hard hitting, least likely to go through walls, don't have to worry as much about accuracy when it's dark and you're blurry eyed (although, and this is very important, whatever you get, I recommend fixing it with a flashlight so you can identify your target. It will also help you with area aiming) If you do go with a handgun or rifle, you may want to look into getting some Glaser Safety Slugs to use for the first couple of rounds (sort of like the light/heavy loads on the shotgun) They aren't as effective as a standard slug but they aren't going to go through walls and hurt/kill family/neighbors. For indoors I recommend a folding stock with pistol grip so you can maneuver around corners/through doorways (practice this unloaded). If you're going to do this, go to the range and practice firing as you would with this configuration. Pay attention to the effects of recoil, be aware of your muzzle (the open end of your barrel) at ALL times. If you live in tight quarters a handgun might work better for you. And actually, you may want to spend part of that money on one good weapon and then use the rest towards a course at Front Sight. I can stress enough how important training is and they are one of the best, if not the best.

[Malum Prohibitum]

What do you guys think about the Mossberg Persuader? How about a .38 S&W vs. a semi-automatic?

The persuader is a fine weapon for home defense. There are other options, but not any better shotguns for under a grand. (Wilson combat builds a short stock Remington that is SWEET, but expensive.)

For home or personal defense, I personally feel the .38 is too small, especially when limited to 6 shots. If you want a revolver, I consider .357 magnum to be where decent stopping power starts, just get a short barrel. In a pistol, I prefer the .45 since I am limited to a 10 round mag in CA, but would go as small as 9mm in another state since most pistols in 9mm have a 15-17 round magazine.

[Malum Prohibitum]

+1 on the shotgun for home defense. Hard hitting, least likely to go through walls, don't have to worry as much about accuracy when it's dark and you're blurry eyed (although, and this is very important, whatever you get, I recommend fixing it with a flashlight so you can identify your target. It will also help you with area aiming) If you do go with a handgun or rifle, you may want to look into getting some Glaser Safety Slugs to use for the first couple of rounds (sort of like the light/heavy loads on the shotgun) They aren't as effective as a standard slug but they aren't going to go through walls and hurt/kill family/neighbors. For indoors I recommend a folding stock with pistol grip so you can maneuver around corners/through doorways (practice this unloaded). If you're going to do this, go to the range and practice firing as you would with this configuration. Pay attention to the effects of recoil, be aware of your muzzle (the open end of your barrel) at ALL times. If you live in tight quarters a handgun might work better for you. And actually, you may want to spend part of that money on one good weapon and then use the rest towards a course at Front Sight. I can stress enough how important training is and they are one of the best, if not the best.

I agree with your point about the flashlight, and the glaser idea isnt a bad one.

However, I sincerely doubt I would ever attempt to defend myself with a shotgun without a stock unless I had no other choice. Short stock? sure. No stock? no way. First shot would be problematic, follow up would be VERY problematic. If you shoot like this, Im curious as to how much practice it took to become proficient at it.

Also, since the shot spread at short range without a choke is going to be less than 2" anyway, I think its kind of a fallacy to say accuracy is less important. The extra inch and a half of shot spread is only going to be the difference between a miss and a superficial wound at best.

[amy31416]

amy31416,
You can't go wrong with the Mossberg!

Being a woman, (I'm 5'7") the standard Mossberg stock was too long for a comfortable fit and I found myself doing that typical "woman thing" where I was leaning back to compensate for the awkwardness of the long stock - instead of properly shouldering the rifle and leaning forward in a tactical stance. The solution was to replace the butt stock with a 6 position ATI stock. Be careful though, some state regulations may have issues with the overall gun length. So to make the butt stock a "permanent" & lawful length, we fit the butt stock to my size and and put a couple of small stainless screws in to secure it at that length.
[Side note: I painted the screw heads matte black to match the rest of my 590 SP-9 and it looks sweet!]

The S&W .38 revolver was the first pistol I ever owned and I still have it to this day! A snubnose Model 10.
The beauty of the revolver is that you know it's going to fire 99.99% of the time.
However, the capacity is limited, usually 6 shots, and they are much harder to conceal because of width - if you were looking to carry concealed on your person.

A semi auto has a higher round capacity and is thinner for concealed carry, but they are not 99.99% reliable. Again, being female and having smaller hands, I chose to go with a single stack magazine weapon versus a double stack because it fits my hand better. If I concealed carried on my person, my choice would be the Sig Sauer .380 Model P232

I tend to shoot my semi-autos way more accurately than the revolver. In fact, I don't know anyone who has shot my revolver particularly well. It is certainly a close range weapon.
Just my two cents! ;)

Thanks much for your two cents! I'm also 5'7", and built rather small, so I'd likely have the same issues that you would. The boyfriend has taken me out to the range once so far to practice and I got a S&W .38, he got an HK 9mm, so I had a chance to fire both.

For whatever reason, I was more accurate with the .38. In fact I did better than the boyfriend as well, hitting the bullseye spot on several times. I found the 9mm more intimidating, but easier to fire. The first thing I have to learn is how to keep my eyes open when firing, I had a pesky tendency to squeeze them shut in anticipation of the gun going off! (Yeah, I know, I sound like a total wuss, whatever, I never thought I'd even fire a gun ever.)

Anyways, I think the Mossberg looks badass, and I'm trying to make sure that it can actually perform as well as it looks, and it's not like you can go to a range and try one out (at least an indoor range.)

Still torn on the revolver vs. semi-automatic thing. How often do semi-automatics jam? Anyone have a percentage? I'm leaning toward the revolvers still, because I figure that six shots should be enough for most any situation. I'm not so worried about the size, I usually dress in layers and live in a cold part of the country ;)

[amy31416]

+1 on the shotgun for home defense. Hard hitting, least likely to go through walls, don't have to worry as much about accuracy when it's dark and you're blurry eyed (although, and this is very important, whatever you get, I recommend fixing it with a flashlight so you can identify your target. It will also help you with area aiming) If you do go with a handgun or rifle, you may want to look into getting some Glaser Safety Slugs to use for the first couple of rounds (sort of like the light/heavy loads on the shotgun) They aren't as effective as a standard slug but they aren't going to go through walls and hurt/kill family/neighbors. For indoors I recommend a folding stock with pistol grip so you can maneuver around corners/through doorways (practice this unloaded). If you're going to do this, go to the range and practice firing as you would with this configuration. Pay attention to the effects of recoil, be aware of your muzzle (the open end of your barrel) at ALL times. If you live in tight quarters a handgun might work better for you. And actually, you may want to spend part of that money on one good weapon and then use the rest towards a course at Front Sight. I can stress enough how important training is and they are one of the best, if not the best.

Interesting. I was at a gun shop and the guy at the counter showed me some rounds for a .38 that are like shotgun rounds, meaning the shot from a pistol could be a scatter shot like a shotgun. Is that the same thing?

I've heard pros and cons for a pistol grip on a shotgun. The pros are what you say, the cons are that it makes the recoil more difficult to control and the shotgun harder to aim.

I'll check out Front Sight, I'd never heard of them. Thanks.

[amy31416]

The persuader is a fine weapon for home defense. There are other options, but not any better shotguns for under a grand. (Wilson combat builds a short stock Remington that is SWEET, but expensive.)

For home or personal defense, I personally feel the .38 is too small, especially when limited to 6 shots. If you want a revolver, I consider .357 magnum to be where decent stopping power starts, just get a short barrel. In a pistol, I prefer the .45 since I am limited to a 10 round mag in CA, but would go as small as 9mm in another state since most pistols in 9mm have a 15-17 round magazine.

Next time I go to the range, I'm going to try a .357 and a .45, just to see what it's like vs. the 9mm and .38.

How is it that you're limited to a 10 round mag in CA? Gun laws are bizarre.

[Malum Prohibitum]

Next time I go to the range, I'm going to try a .357 and a .45, just to see what it's like vs. the 9mm and .38.

How is it that you're limited to a 10 round mag in CA? Gun laws are bizarre.


Californians think high capacity magazines kill people, unfortunately.

[amy31416]

Californians think high capacity magazines kill people, unfortunately.

Crazy. If you're a good shot, or get "lucky" one bullet can take care of business. Wacky law.

[Malum Prohibitum]

Crazy. If you're a good shot, or get "lucky" one bullet can take care of business. Wacky law.

I agree, this is what happens when people who have never even held a gun write gun laws.

You try to get them to understand that with practice, someone can change a mag in less than a second, they just stare blankly...

[Dequeant]

For home defense, I like a Springfield XD in .45, loaded with jhp and a vanilla 20 guage short barrel shotgun loaded with 0 or 1 buckshot. (I have concerns about overpenetration and harming neighbors if a projectile makes it out a window, and my wife is much more comfortable shooting the 20g than the 12.)

I'm pretty sure you and i would get along well. I just happen to have a .20g near the front door and an XD .45ACP on my nightstand.

As for the 80%/20% lethality stuff......

I would much rather be shot with 5.56 in the chest than .45JHP........it's like.....not even close. I'd venture to say I would rather have my kidney removed with a rusted spoon than to be shot in the chest with a .45JHP. It's pretty much game over....that whole 20% thing is probably because of all the idiots running around with their .22's and 9mm's cocked sideways trying to be "gangsta".

[Malum Prohibitum]

I'm pretty sure you and i would get along well. I just happen to have a .20g near the front door and an XD .45ACP on my nightstand.

As for the 80%/20% lethality stuff......

I would much rather be shot with 5.56 in the chest than .45JHP........it's like.....not even close. I'd venture to say I would rather have my kidney removed with a rusted spoon than to be shot in the chest with a .45JHP. It's pretty much game over....that whole 20% thing is probably because of all the idiots running around with their .22's and 9mm's cocked sideways trying to be "gangsta".

Yep, regardless of the barrel length, there is no replacement for displacement. (though transmitted energy, assuming its all put INTO the target, instead of THROUGH it, is a close second).

The wound channel and transmitted energy of a fully blossomed .45 jhp +p is higher than a LOT of small caliber, high velocity varmint rounds.

The .45 was designed for one shot, one kill. The 9mm was designed to be light, and create potentially, but not necessarily fatal wounds, as it takes more guys to take care of wounded than it does to take care of the dead. Im pretty sure you can say the same thing of the diff btw .308 and .223.

[Conservative Christian]

80% of people shot with a handgun survive. 20% of people shot with a rifle survive.

I don't think the kill rate tells the whole story. I would be more interested in seeing the percentages on how many attacks were successfully stopped with a handgun, and how many were unsuccessfully stopped.

Unfortunately, far too many people have bought into the myth that weak handgun calibers like .22, .25, .32 and .380 have effective stopping power in all or most defensive situations. Besides the mistaken notion that these sub-par rounds are effective man-stoppers, they're also popular because the ammo is cheaper and the recoil is lighter.

Here are the MINIMUM recommendations for serious handgun self-defense:

Revolvers: .38 Special (jacketed hollow points)
Semi-autos: 9mm (jacketed hollow points)

[Cowlesy]

Get a Thumper with HE rounds and you don't have to worry about this stuff, just duck.

[Conservative Christian]

The .45 was designed for one shot, one kill. The 9mm was designed to be light, and create potentially, but not necessarily fatal wounds, as it takes more guys to take care of wounded than it does to take care of the dead. Im pretty sure you can say the same thing of the diff btw .308 and .223.

I agree completely that the .45 ACP is a noticeably better defensive round than the 9mm.

Though not as effective as a .45, a name brand 9mm semi-auto loaded with jacketed hollow points is sufficient for self-defense.

Most .45's are just too physically large and have too much recoil to be of use to a person of small physical stature and/or small hands.

When I was in the military many moons ago, the men were issued .45's and the women were issued .38 revolvers.