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View Full Version : Daily Kos: I Endorse Ron Paul & Why Progressives Should Support Him




Pimpin Turtle Dot Com
12-24-2007, 11:11 PM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/24/11250/453/61/426080

Check out the ignorance of the posts below... the DailyKos readers are mindless sheep to an extent I did not think existed...

mconder
12-24-2007, 11:20 PM
Here is an example of some of the comments to this article:

There isn't a more dishonest, more hypocritical candidate running for president today. That being said, Paul still has a good shot at winning the neo-Nazi vote.

These people are seriously lost. Reading helps.

aspiringconstitutionalist
12-24-2007, 11:22 PM
Daily Kosulons are by far more sheeplike than even the Christianist neocons. I can't stand that site.

rfbz
12-24-2007, 11:25 PM
yeah I wouldn't expect a good response from the commenters there but it's good to get an entry like that there to get them thinking

FreedomLover
12-24-2007, 11:29 PM
Kos Kidz are, by and large, complete idiots. I don't care what they have to say about Ron paul, good or bad.

nist7
12-24-2007, 11:33 PM
It's a site for socialists. Although they do have some interesting stuff on the neocons....other than that......LOL

born2drv
12-24-2007, 11:34 PM
wow, that guy keeps saying ron paul is progressive as if the war is the only thing he listens to Ron Paul.

Paul is the total opposite of progressive... he wants to move away from socialism, communism, nanny state, etc... he wants smaller government, this is something the liberals just can not fathom, they want their entitlements, they want their cheap energy and oil, and their artificially inflated dollars, but they don't want any of the ugliness (war, aggression, bubble markets, UNfair trade ie China, etc) that comes with it.

Freedom means freedom .... you take care of yourself and let the market take it's course, and you put faith in those who are prosperous to give back to their community.

Shellshock1918
12-24-2007, 11:36 PM
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/24/11250/453/61/426080

Check out the ignorance of the posts below... the DailyKos readers are mindless sheep to an extent I did not think existed...

Don't pay attention to those loons. Those are far left nut jobs that want to disban the US military and increase the size of government.

rory096
12-24-2007, 11:37 PM
That's not really an endorsement, as the author says.

user
12-24-2007, 11:39 PM
Don't worry, the "progressives" are in the minority and it doesn't look like they're very influential. They couldn't even stop Bush.

0zzy
12-24-2007, 11:40 PM
I hate progressives.

Cunningham
12-24-2007, 11:49 PM
Nice to see that but the writer is an idiot. I think he's fooling himself if he really thinks Ron Paul supporters are going to support progressives if Ron doesn't pull it off. Plus this little nugget cracked me up, "Libertarianism has NEVER been proven to work for a nation. The US is not the place to test that." Are you serious? Where do you think this Nation started out?

rory096
12-24-2007, 11:51 PM
Nice to see that but the writer is an idiot. I think he's fooling himself if he really thinks Ron Paul supporters are going to support progressives if Ron doesn't pull it off. Plus this little nugget cracked me up, "Libertarianism has NEVER been proven to work for a nation. The US is not the place to test that." Are you serious? Where do you think this Nation started out?
Shh, progressives don't like logic.

TheConstitutionLives
12-24-2007, 11:55 PM
Daily Kos visitors really don't have a clue about what America is supposed to be. It's sad really. They are a microcasm of the American population. The American people, I hate to admit, are very very ignorant people, by and large. Anyone who would actually entertain the "nazi" nonsense isn't capable of critical thinking. Period. Their lightbulb hasn't turned on yet. They don't "get it". As Paul says, "there are two kinds of liberty - personal liberty and economic liberty". The daily kos types could give a shit about your economic liberty. In their world we should give 80% of all our money to fund a non-free socialists country and at the same time condemn things like the Patriot Act. They don't understand that economic liberty is just as important as personal liberty. As I said, it hasn't clicked in their head yet and probably never will.

They either haven't heard or refuse to accept the FACT that ECONOMIC liberty was probably the main reason that America broke away from Britain. Yet, they'll tax your ass all day and night to fund all their pet projects.

TheConstitutionLives
12-24-2007, 11:59 PM
Plus this little nugget cracked me up, "Libertarianism has NEVER been proven to work for a nation. The US is not the place to test that." Are you serious? Where do you think this Nation started out?


Is that not just completely HILARIOUS!!?? hahahahahahaha

We're dealing with ignorance. People have no understanding of what TRUE freedom is. They just don't. They've never had true freedom so they don't know what their missing. They imagine a Ron Paul administration would result in living in the Wild West all over again when it's not. Plus, the West was never "wild" to begin with. Hollywood has conditioned us to believe that all our lives.

lucius
12-24-2007, 11:59 PM
Utopian Dreamers, stuck in a paradigm of a divide et imperium circle-jerk, so heavily inculcated--poster-children for Thomas Hobbes' 'Leviathan'!

daviddee
12-25-2007, 12:00 AM
...

Mark Rushmore
12-25-2007, 12:00 AM
As Paul says, "there are two kinds of liberty - personal liberty and economic liberty". The daily kos types could give a shit about your economic liberty. In their world we should give 80% of all our money to fund a non-free socialists country and at the same time condemn things like the Patriot Act. They don't understand that economic liberty is just as important as personal liberty. As I said, it hasn't clicked in their head yet and probably never will.

Not to nitpick, but I've only ever heard Paul discuss "two types of liberty" when he is debunking the idea. To him, liberty is liberty is liberty, and it is a false technique to pretend you can separate out strands of liberty and then selectively support some while denying others.

ronpaulitician
12-25-2007, 12:01 AM
I'm amazed how closed-minded and uninformed some of these posters are, yet they all think themselves to be utterly brilliant.

"Look at what Ron Paul wants to do," they start, and then list some of the things that they (oh, the humanity) disagree with, not realizing (apparently) that there are views contained within that list that reflect views held by other candidates as well. Yet, somehow, the combination of those views, honestly expressed, makes one a crazy, perhaps even dangerous, loon.

They mention how only conspiracy theorists would be able to ignore the good that the Federal Reserve has done us. After all, look at all the mini-depressions that occurred in US society in the late 19th century and early 20th century. It wasn't until 1913 that our mighty government finally got a hold of our recklessly unregulated monetary system. And then they just ignore the Great Depression, carelessly tossing aside the views of one like Alan Greenspan.

I don't claim to be super-informed and/or right about everything (once you realize that you have changed your views drastically over the years, you kind of have to admit to yourself about each and every one of your opinions, that you just might be wrong), but, yes, I think many of the posters on that Daily Kos thread are stubborn and not very informed outside of the information they were spoonfed by their own.

TheConstitutionLives
12-25-2007, 12:04 AM
Not to nitpick, but I've only ever heard Paul discuss "two types of liberty" when he is debunking the idea. To him, liberty is liberty is liberty, and it is a false technique to pretend you can separate out strands of liberty and then selectively support some while denying others.

- You and I know and understand that but the general public doesn't. They tend to divide one into two. Some would rather have all their money and live in a police state while others want all your earnings but be allowed to smoke pot. So, I agree with you.

user
12-25-2007, 12:06 AM
I believe most Democrats are moderates. If the Kos people are in the majority, why doesn't Kucinich's campaign ever take off? Most of them don't like Hillary either, but guess who's leading in the Democratic polls?

daviddee
12-25-2007, 12:14 AM
...

Nefertiti
12-25-2007, 12:17 AM
These people aren't liberals, or Marxists or progressives. They are so juvenile that any political leanings or philosophy would be lost on them. Their ability to present an argument is stuck at the prepubescent level. I was dumbfounded at the extreme immaturity of their remarks but when I got to this one I simply couldn't read anymore:

"This morning I deposited a well-formed turd in the toilet bowl. I kind of like that--didn't smell too bad, it was quick, and my butt cleaned up well with one wipe. Much better than those messy, watery craps that sometimes come after too much greasy or spicy food.

That's kind of how I feel about Ron Paul, too. As pieces of shit go, he's not too bad. But even the best piece of shit can't be shown in polite company, and he's still a turd."

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

rfbz
12-25-2007, 12:35 AM
man reading that site for too long does give me a sick feeling to my stomach.

You know, I've realized that the liberals think that we (and other limited government types) are cold hearted bastards and don't care about the poor and the sick. What they fail to realize is that we care about those things just the same, maybe even more so, but where the dispute lies is how we accomplish the goal of minimum poverty and suffering. They think that government handouts are they answer. This is what boggles my mind, don't we have a boatload of examples where this does NOT make the people better off? It does level the playing field, but everyone is then all on the same bottom rung. Everyone complains of high medical care costs. Why do you think that is? Because of government interfering with the industry. So what is their answer? More government. And it will not take long to see innovation drop to unprecedented levels.

We're already in the wrong direction with Healthcare. Nobody even pays attention to the cost anymore, we just know we have a $25 copay. It's impossible to compare price and quality with the ease of other industries. Doctors don't really get paid on how good they are, they primarily get more money by increasing patient volume which hurts everyone who has to wait a month for an appointment (my dr is like this).

daviddee
12-25-2007, 12:48 AM
...

AgentPaul001
12-25-2007, 01:17 AM
I wonder if DailyKos endorsing Paul will hurt him. They've got a really bad reputation with most conservatives :|

Dax552
12-25-2007, 01:19 AM
Folks, I have a confession to make. I used to read DailyKos. Quite a bit actually. I was just beginning to get interested in politics a few years ago, and figured that if DailyKos disliked the Bush policies as much as I did, then hey, I must be a "progressive" like them.

Only within the last year did I start to see holes in their positions, and now don't see myself as very "progressive" at all. Thankfully, I discovered Ron Paul, and now I know exactly where I lie on the political spectrum. I agree with virtually everything Ron Paul has to say, and he explains his positions so well, that he's changed my mind on a number of issues.


I'm amazed how closed-minded and uninformed some of these posters are, yet they all think themselves to be utterly brilliant.


Reading DailyKos now, it really disappoints me. Your statement is something I think in my head every time I read their comments at DailyKos these days, and their juvenile ignorance and close-minded attitude towards Ron Paul is very telling. They proudly proclaim that they have no interest in what's best for the country, but rather to simply elect Democrats. It's ironic, really, the way they treat difference of opinion, and how they're actually helping the current system continue down its path. Whether they realize it or not, they have become what they hate.

Before finding this Ron Paul forum however, I do recall one post by Kos himself after supporters of Ron Paul raised 4.3 million on November 5th. Kos was impressed and said that they were only talking in a vacuum over at their site, where as the Ron Paul supporters were forced to disperse out into the real world and bring attention to their cause. The Kos people were clearly jealous that none of their beloved democrats could garner such passion, and that they were supposed to OWN the anti-war vote, along with the energy of the younger generation.

The truth is, they had their chance and they blew it. And they continue to blow it with comments like those you see now. 2006 came, their democrats were voted in, and they were exposed for being no different than their neo-con counter parts.

Ron Paul is the only hope for this country, and if we continue to push hard, I truly believe that we will win. The peeps at dailykos will be furious when it happens, but it doesn't matter. Let them cry. They are a small minority and they'll continue to shrink, along with the neo-cons.

rasheedwallace
12-25-2007, 01:24 AM
the comments are ROUGH to say the least.

TheConstitutionLives
12-25-2007, 01:32 AM
Folks, I have a confession to make. I used to read DailyKos. Quite a bit actually. I was just beginning to get interested in politics a few years ago, and figured that if DailyKos disliked the Bush policies as much as I did, then hey, I must be a "progressive" like them.

Only within the last year did I start to see holes in their positions, and now don't see myself as very "progressive" at all. Thankfully, I discovered Ron Paul, and now I know exactly where I lie on the political spectrum. I agree with virtually everything Ron Paul has to say, and he explains his positions so well, that he's changed my mind on a number of issues.



Reading DailyKos now, it really disappoints me. Your statement is something I think in my head every time I read their comments at DailyKos these days, and their juvenile ignorance and close-minded attitude towards Ron Paul is very telling. They proudly proclaim that they have no interest in what's best for the country, but rather to simply elect Democrats. It's ironic, really, the way they treat difference of opinion, and how they're actually helping the current system continue down its path. Whether they realize it or not, they have become what they hate.

Before finding this Ron Paul forum however, I do recall one post by Kos himself after supporters of Ron Paul raised 4.3 million on November 5th. Kos was impressed and said that they were only talking in a vacuum over at their site, where as the Ron Paul supporters were forced to disperse out into the real world and bring attention to their cause. The Kos people were clearly jealous that none of their beloved democrats could garner such passion, and that they were supposed to OWN the anti-war vote, along with the energy of the younger generation.

The truth is, they had their chance and they blew it. And they continue to blow it with comments like those you see now. 2006 came, their democrats were voted in, and they were exposed for being no different than their neo-con counter parts.

Ron Paul is the only hope for this country, and if we continue to push hard, I truly believe that we will win. The peeps at dailykos will be furious when it happens, but it doesn't matter. Let them cry. They are a small minority and they'll continue to shrink, along with the neo-cons.


It takes a good person to admit that. I used to support the Iraq war in the beginning. I think all of us have learned alot. What's so magnificant about Paul is though you may not agree with everything he says, he still makes you think about things differently.

As I said in an earlier post in this thread: "Their lightbulb hasn't turned on yet. They don't get it." It hasn't clicked for them yet. Some it eventually will and others it never will. It all comes back to liberty and the constitution. If we don't agree with something in the constitution we have to amend it which is perfectly fine. The problem is that the federal government does whatever they want without amending the constitution and when we the people allow them to do that then we open up a huge mess b/c they're no longer bound by anything.

I always like to remind people with one example of how out of control things have gotten. Our federal government is using OUR tax dollars to REGULATE PROFFESSIONAL BASEBALL now! Is that not the most rediculous thing ever? Don't use my tax dollars for that! Isnt' there more important things that need to be addressed atleast? That's completely 100%, no questions asked UNCONSTITUTIONAL. They have ZERO jurisdiction over baseball. Period. Nada. Yet, again, b/c they've been allowed to do whatever they want for so long and aren't held to the jurisdiction set out in their oath to the constitution they think they can do whatever they please.

daviddee
12-25-2007, 01:45 AM
...

RPTXState
12-25-2007, 02:05 AM
Folks, I have a confession to make. I used to read DailyKos. Quite a bit actually. I was just beginning to get interested in politics a few years ago, and figured that if DailyKos disliked the Bush policies as much as I did, then hey, I must be a "progressive" like them.

Only within the last year did I start to see holes in their positions, and now don't see myself as very "progressive" at all. Thankfully, I discovered Ron Paul, and now I know exactly where I lie on the political spectrum. I agree with virtually everything Ron Paul has to say, and he explains his positions so well, that he's changed my mind on a number of issues.



Reading DailyKos now, it really disappoints me. Your statement is something I think in my head every time I read their comments at DailyKos these days, and their juvenile ignorance and close-minded attitude towards Ron Paul is very telling. They proudly proclaim that they have no interest in what's best for the country, but rather to simply elect Democrats. It's ironic, really, the way they treat difference of opinion, and how they're actually helping the current system continue down its path. Whether they realize it or not, they have become what they hate.

Before finding this Ron Paul forum however, I do recall one post by Kos himself after supporters of Ron Paul raised 4.3 million on November 5th. Kos was impressed and said that they were only talking in a vacuum over at their site, where as the Ron Paul supporters were forced to disperse out into the real world and bring attention to their cause. The Kos people were clearly jealous that none of their beloved democrats could garner such passion, and that they were supposed to OWN the anti-war vote, along with the energy of the younger generation.

The truth is, they had their chance and they blew it. And they continue to blow it with comments like those you see now. 2006 came, their democrats were voted in, and they were exposed for being no different than their neo-con counter parts.

Ron Paul is the only hope for this country, and if we continue to push hard, I truly believe that we will win. The peeps at dailykos will be furious when it happens, but it doesn't matter. Let them cry. They are a small minority and they'll continue to shrink, along with the neo-cons.


If every American thought out their political beliefs and listened to logic like this, not only would Dr. Paul win, but most of our problems would be solved.

Corydoras
12-25-2007, 02:16 AM
Wait... Ann Coulter said Ron Paul's foreign policy is fabulous and someone on the Daily Kos said that Ron Paul's candidacy is great for America? This is getting serious. As we hoped, the political dialogue in this country is being realigned by Ron Paul. What's next, lambs and lions getting cuddly?

rory096
12-25-2007, 02:18 AM
Wait... Ann Coulter said Ron Paul's foreign policy is fabulous and someone on the Daily Kos said that Ron Paul's candidacy is great for America? This is getting serious. As we hoped, the political dialogue in this country is being realigned by Ron Paul. What's next, lambs and lions getting cuddly?
No, Coulter said Paul's domestic policy is fabulous and his foreign policy is terrible.

_rp2008_
12-25-2007, 02:24 AM
Like Paul says: The source of our problems today is our disobedience of the US Constitution; the answers to these problems is our obedience of it.

jamesmadison
12-25-2007, 02:25 AM
Some of you sound as stupid as the progressives.

Bla, bla, bla progressives this, progressives that. O'reilly rocks. I wonder who i heard it from. O'Reilly? They're not even human. They want to destroy christmas. O'reilly. Progressives. O'reilly. Christmas. Progressives.

O'reilly.

Socialized medicine. Hannity. O'reilly. Progressives. Beck. Medicine. Christmas.

Richandler
12-25-2007, 04:36 AM
One of the few things I agree with Bill O'Reilly on is that the dailykos is filled with nuts.

It's funny how Colbert and Olbermann went to bat for them.

speciallyblend
12-25-2007, 05:16 AM
oreilly is an idiot, yep i said it. oreilly is just as bad as daily kos ,both suck.....

RichardC
12-25-2007, 05:32 AM
Before finding this Ron Paul forum however, I do recall one post by Kos himself after supporters of Ron Paul raised 4.3 million on November 5th. Kos was impressed and said that they were only talking in a vacuum over at their site, where as the Ron Paul supporters were forced to disperse out into the real world and bring attention to their cause. The Kos people were clearly jealous that none of their beloved democrats could garner such passion, and that they were supposed to OWN the anti-war vote, along with the energy of the younger generation.

The truth is, they had their chance and they blew it. And they continue to blow it with comments like those you see now. 2006 came, their democrats were voted in, and they were exposed for being no different than their neo-con counter parts.

Ron Paul is the only hope for this country, and if we continue to push hard, I truly believe that we will win. The peeps at dailykos will be furious when it happens, but it doesn't matter. Let them cry. They are a small minority and they'll continue to shrink, along with the neo-cons.

I basically agree with what you're saying, I've been in the same boat. I'd read some Kos and a little more Crooks and Liars, and I still read some C&L. But I've given up on the Kos website as anything more than a curiousity. They're imploding, and I don't think they see it. They are stuck in standard boxes of Right vs Left arguments, and RP has I think transcended that. He's shown us its possible to have a 3rd viewpoint, and I think a more valid one. His momentum is undeniable.

I still wouldn't push so hard back on Kos, and I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I see some of their members struggling with purpose, and this post on their site in support of RP, as misguided as the reasoning is, shows that they aren't yet done with this issue. Is their purpose to elect only Democrats? Or could their purpose be to elect honest public servants that truly serve the people?

On some issues, Kos could still prove to be an ally. Why drive them away? Politically, I'm not sure where I belong. I don't fit the nice little structures of these sites... if I were to post at Kos I'd get derided. When I post at C&L if I say anything even hinting at RP support, even when he's clearly right, I get labelled as a neocon shill. I think RP ought to have a very big tent because Constitutional issues cross party lines, and I think there could be more people like me floating around sites like Kos who just need to be shown the way.

I'm worried about partisanship and I don't think its a solution to anything. Kos drove to get the Democrats into congress in 2006 and for good reason, the Republican congress had proven unreliable. This is where we almost agree with a site like Kos- the dems were supposed to end the war and restore fiscal responsibility. That latter one sounds silly now, but just a year ago the Republicans were the party of "spend and spend" and the Democrats were viewed as the answer to their mad spending. They were also the candidates to restore honor and integrity to politics, with all the gay/underage/porn/prostitution scandals going on with the Repubs.

And a year later, things haven't really changed. The people at Kos, I think, are still trying to figure out what the hell happened. They put all this effort into the '06 Democrat resurgence, and they were backstabbed. The Dems haven't restored fiscal responsibility, if anything, they proved as bad or worse than the Repubs. They've done nothing to end the war, if anything escalate it. I actually think on the war issue, if you look at how Dems vote, they're very split on this. Too many of their own are falling into the neocon trap. I can only imagine how frustrating that failure must be (a microcosm of this Democrat identity crisis can be seen in the threats made by Sheehan to run against Pelosi).

The people at Kos have a great, honest candidate they could help propel into the front if they really believed in the courage of their convictions: Dennis Kucinich. But for whatever reason, they can't seem to make it happen. There's no real momentum, no real grassroots behind him, and they know it. It must be maddening. He's their only real anti-war candidate, the only true liberal, the only one calling for impeachment, and he's one of the few who actually reads and supports the constitution. His interpretation is populist and socialist, but at least he has an interpretation of it. So as flawed as this is, its still far ahead of the neocon agenda.

I still see potential for common ground here. Remember what they wanted was an end to the war and an end to crazy spending. Well, RP offers that. Everyone has to compromise a little, but I think RP ultimately appeals to rational people who aren't so partisan. And who wants to be partisan really. If you dig into their goals a little bit, you can usually discern the key issues that make them believe what it is they think they believe, and then you can begin to help them out of this insane partisan quagmire they've gotten themselves into.

constituent
12-25-2007, 06:00 AM
so heavily inculcated--poster-children for Thomas Hobbes' 'Leviathan'!

needs repeating i think.


course, every once in awhile i like to dress like a progessive and send them subliminal messages
using the day's headlines. much easier than one might assume.

hadn't done it in a little while, the place gets... ahem... progressively dumber.

stefans
12-25-2007, 06:37 AM
We Dems are FUCKED if Paul gets the nomination. (0 / 0)

Here's why.

I'm a Richardson supporter, and have been for awhile.

Simply put, Paul is the worst case Republican to get the nomination.

It's because he stands the best chance of beating us.

War? He's got us. He's a more credible anti-war candidate.

Immigration? He's got us. He's more credible than anything Dems have put together.

Fiscal policy? He's got us. The man has gone toe-to-toe with the Fed chairman on arcane currency policies - and WON. His ideas for cutting back the overseas commitments and allowing alternative currencies to compete with the dollar are, quite simply, genius.

I hope Paul doesn't get the nomination. No frontrunner Dem has a chance of beating him, only Richardson or Kucinich did - and the DNC threw them on the trash pile.

by jlseagull42 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:57:27 PM PST

constituent
12-25-2007, 06:41 AM
what is the attraction (for you) to richardson?

stefans
12-25-2007, 06:44 AM
what is the attraction (for you) to richardson?

for me?


by jlseagull42 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:57:27 PM PST

constituent
12-25-2007, 06:49 AM
yep... i only ask b/c he's a spiteful racist... and for this reason i do not understand why
the dems. would support him.

indivi
12-25-2007, 07:06 AM
yep... i only ask b/c he's a spiteful racist... and for this reason i do not understand why
the dems. would support him.

stefans was quoting someone else. The post illustrated that at least some of these people recognize the threat that Paul poses to the elections.

Dax552
12-25-2007, 10:23 AM
Is their purpose to elect only Democrats? Or could their purpose be to elect honest public servants that truly serve the people?


But that's just it, Richard. This was what finally did it for me. They openly state that the reason they don't allow any talk on Ron Paul is because their purpose is solely to get Democrats elected. Apparently this alone is reason enough for them to spew lies and hatred towards Ron Paul.

So long as the person has a "D" next to their name they're OK, but anyone with an "R" is inherently evil in their minds. Ironically, this simplistic view of good vs. evil is precisely what they condemn Bush for. Like I said, they've become what they hate.

stefans
12-25-2007, 10:34 AM
yeah their only goal is to get democrats elected.
markos is a democratic strategist and has said himself that he isn't that interested in specific policy positions.
it seems to me the only reason they get involved in changing policies inside the democratic party is to make them more electable. or what they think is more electable.

I understand that this is quite a nice job for markos and there's a place for that in every party, but I don't understand why a site built around polling data and politics has such a huge following.

hugh8jass
12-25-2007, 10:39 AM
"Progressive" is a highly subjective term, let's not forget that horrible anti-statist who left his mark on the term Progressive a century ago...Fighting Bob LaFollette.

walt
12-25-2007, 10:42 AM
why not spend your time on REAL VOTERS in your local area? or phone banking?

The less time I spend at the other sites, the more productive I am spreading the message!

wfd40
12-25-2007, 10:59 AM
I basically agree with what you're saying, I've been in the same boat. I'd read some Kos and a little more Crooks and Liars, and I still read some C&L. But I've given up on the Kos website as anything more than a curiousity. They're imploding, and I don't think they see it. They are stuck in standard boxes of Right vs Left arguments, and RP has I think transcended that. He's shown us its possible to have a 3rd viewpoint, and I think a more valid one. His momentum is undeniable.

I still wouldn't push so hard back on Kos, and I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I see some of their members struggling with purpose, and this post on their site in support of RP, as misguided as the reasoning is, shows that they aren't yet done with this issue. Is their purpose to elect only Democrats? Or could their purpose be to elect honest public servants that truly serve the people?

On some issues, Kos could still prove to be an ally. Why drive them away? Politically, I'm not sure where I belong. I don't fit the nice little structures of these sites... if I were to post at Kos I'd get derided. When I post at C&L if I say anything even hinting at RP support, even when he's clearly right, I get labelled as a neocon shill. I think RP ought to have a very big tent because Constitutional issues cross party lines, and I think there could be more people like me floating around sites like Kos who just need to be shown the way.

I'm worried about partisanship and I don't think its a solution to anything. Kos drove to get the Democrats into congress in 2006 and for good reason, the Republican congress had proven unreliable. This is where we almost agree with a site like Kos- the dems were supposed to end the war and restore fiscal responsibility. That latter one sounds silly now, but just a year ago the Republicans were the party of "spend and spend" and the Democrats were viewed as the answer to their mad spending. They were also the candidates to restore honor and integrity to politics, with all the gay/underage/porn/prostitution scandals going on with the Repubs.

And a year later, things haven't really changed. The people at Kos, I think, are still trying to figure out what the hell happened. They put all this effort into the '06 Democrat resurgence, and they were backstabbed. The Dems haven't restored fiscal responsibility, if anything, they proved as bad or worse than the Repubs. They've done nothing to end the war, if anything escalate it. I actually think on the war issue, if you look at how Dems vote, they're very split on this. Too many of their own are falling into the neocon trap. I can only imagine how frustrating that failure must be (a microcosm of this Democrat identity crisis can be seen in the threats made by Sheehan to run against Pelosi).

The people at Kos have a great, honest candidate they could help propel into the front if they really believed in the courage of their convictions: Dennis Kucinich. But for whatever reason, they can't seem to make it happen. There's no real momentum, no real grassroots behind him, and they know it. It must be maddening. He's their only real anti-war candidate, the only true liberal, the only one calling for impeachment, and he's one of the few who actually reads and supports the constitution. His interpretation is populist and socialist, but at least he has an interpretation of it. So as flawed as this is, its still far ahead of the neocon agenda.

I still see potential for common ground here. Remember what they wanted was an end to the war and an end to crazy spending. Well, RP offers that. Everyone has to compromise a little, but I think RP ultimately appeals to rational people who aren't so partisan. And who wants to be partisan really. If you dig into their goals a little bit, you can usually discern the key issues that make them believe what it is they think they believe, and then you can begin to help them out of this insane partisan quagmire they've gotten themselves into.

Great post man - certainly feel free to post more often

;)

Pimpin Turtle Dot Com
12-25-2007, 11:32 AM
Hell yes! Their ignorance drives me to work harder for RP...

Ozwest
12-27-2007, 03:43 AM
Daily Kos is losing converts as we speak, and he's worried. Why do you think he's stepping up the hit pieces?

Many Dems are beginning to see the light.

I'm sure there are a lot of Ron Paul supporters who previously voted for Bush and Co.

Wasn't everyone a little crazy before they found out about Ron Paul?

user
12-27-2007, 03:58 AM
Daily Kos is losing converts as we speak, and he's worried. Why do you think he's stepping up the hit pieces?

Many Dems are beginning to see the light.

I'm sure there are a lot of Ron Paul supporters who previously voted for Bush and Co.

Wasn't everyone a little crazy before they found out about Ron Paul?
From the comments there on this post, which wasn't even pro-RP, it looks like they absolutely hate RP and his message of freedom. They appear to be the socialist fringe of the Democratic party.

I do agree that many Dems can be convinced to vote for RP, but can we say the same for DailyKos posters?

Eric21ND
12-27-2007, 04:25 AM
I basically agree with what you're saying, I've been in the same boat. I'd read some Kos and a little more Crooks and Liars, and I still read some C&L. But I've given up on the Kos website as anything more than a curiousity. They're imploding, and I don't think they see it. They are stuck in standard boxes of Right vs Left arguments, and RP has I think transcended that. He's shown us its possible to have a 3rd viewpoint, and I think a more valid one. His momentum is undeniable.

I still wouldn't push so hard back on Kos, and I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I see some of their members struggling with purpose, and this post on their site in support of RP, as misguided as the reasoning is, shows that they aren't yet done with this issue. Is their purpose to elect only Democrats? Or could their purpose be to elect honest public servants that truly serve the people?

On some issues, Kos could still prove to be an ally. Why drive them away? Politically, I'm not sure where I belong. I don't fit the nice little structures of these sites... if I were to post at Kos I'd get derided. When I post at C&L if I say anything even hinting at RP support, even when he's clearly right, I get labelled as a neocon shill. I think RP ought to have a very big tent because Constitutional issues cross party lines, and I think there could be more people like me floating around sites like Kos who just need to be shown the way.

I'm worried about partisanship and I don't think its a solution to anything. Kos drove to get the Democrats into congress in 2006 and for good reason, the Republican congress had proven unreliable. This is where we almost agree with a site like Kos- the dems were supposed to end the war and restore fiscal responsibility. That latter one sounds silly now, but just a year ago the Republicans were the party of "spend and spend" and the Democrats were viewed as the answer to their mad spending. They were also the candidates to restore honor and integrity to politics, with all the gay/underage/porn/prostitution scandals going on with the Repubs.

And a year later, things haven't really changed. The people at Kos, I think, are still trying to figure out what the hell happened. They put all this effort into the '06 Democrat resurgence, and they were backstabbed. The Dems haven't restored fiscal responsibility, if anything, they proved as bad or worse than the Repubs. They've done nothing to end the war, if anything escalate it. I actually think on the war issue, if you look at how Dems vote, they're very split on this. Too many of their own are falling into the neocon trap. I can only imagine how frustrating that failure must be (a microcosm of this Democrat identity crisis can be seen in the threats made by Sheehan to run against Pelosi).

The people at Kos have a great, honest candidate they could help propel into the front if they really believed in the courage of their convictions: Dennis Kucinich. But for whatever reason, they can't seem to make it happen. There's no real momentum, no real grassroots behind him, and they know it. It must be maddening. He's their only real anti-war candidate, the only true liberal, the only one calling for impeachment, and he's one of the few who actually reads and supports the constitution. His interpretation is populist and socialist, but at least he has an interpretation of it. So as flawed as this is, its still far ahead of the neocon agenda.

I still see potential for common ground here. Remember what they wanted was an end to the war and an end to crazy spending. Well, RP offers that. Everyone has to compromise a little, but I think RP ultimately appeals to rational people who aren't so partisan. And who wants to be partisan really. If you dig into their goals a little bit, you can usually discern the key issues that make them believe what it is they think they believe, and then you can begin to help them out of this insane partisan quagmire they've gotten themselves into.

I do respect Kucinich, he is certainly a decent, honest man, I have to admit it would be nice to see him get a foothold in the democractic party just for the possibility of having a real debate of philosophy and interchange of ideas between him and Paul. I swear if those two went around the country putting on a barnstorming debate tour they would raise the collective IQ of this country. We could have our first real honest election in over a century...aww idealism. :rolleyes: There would be no attack ads, no venom back and forth, just a real exchange of ideas. And you know what at the end of the day, they would probably find a place for each other in their administration. In fact Kucinich has said he would like Ron Paul as a running mate here in this video. Thanks for the kind words about our guy Dennis. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py8cXlLyX18

RichardC
12-27-2007, 05:09 AM
I do respect Kucinich, he is certainly a decent, honest man, I have to admit it would be nice to see him get a foothold in the democractic party just for the possibility of having a real debate of philosophy and interchange of ideas between him and Paul. I swear if those two went around the country putting on a barnstorming debate tour they would raise the collective IQ of this country. We could have our first real honest election in over a century...aww idealism. :rolleyes: There would be no attack ads, no venom back and forth, just a real exchange of ideas. And you know what at the end of the day, they would probably find a place for each other in their administration. In fact Kucinich has said he would like Ron Paul as a running mate here in this video. Thanks for the kind words about our guy Dennis. :)


I agree with this 100%. I'm supporting RP beyond a doubt, but I also think a Paul vs Kucinich candidacy would have the real added benefit of educating people and would raise our collective IQ quite a bit. It's my dream debate. We would see real issues discussed for the first time in a long time.

I think kucinich proves there is room to interpret the constitution with a liberal/populist slant. He takes the document very seriously and is definitely not just paying it lip service.

Obama is my 2nd choice in this regard. He was a civil rights lawyer and has taught constitutional law coming from a harvard background. Despite what some people would tell you, he's no slouch when it comes to the teachings of the Constitution. I have no doubt that in a fair RP vs Obama debate on the Constitution, Obama would get schooled =) But it would be a healthy debate and a debate on issues. It would just help expose the weaknesses of a liberal/welfarism interpretation of our federal government, and I have no doubt that open minded and thinking progressives would come to the RP camp in droves.

I think right now we stand a decent chance of getting a RP vs Obama election, provided the Dems can get their act together and support a semi-honest candidate.

DutchPaulestinian
12-27-2007, 05:57 AM
The CIA Truth about Kos - Daily Kos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK6CinsGYC0

NewEnd
12-27-2007, 06:28 AM
We are fucking killing them!!

Left and right! they are gettign all sorts of fucked up and they know it. They are doing everything they can to discourage us. The left wants to tell us its their turn now, because the republicans got 8 years, and the rigth just want to keep their war.

This is so funny, they say he can't win, but they are scared.... they are very afraid.

navi
12-27-2007, 06:32 AM
Wow the comment section is full of garbage.

NewEnd
12-27-2007, 06:56 AM
The CIA Truth about Kos - Daily Kos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK6CinsGYC0

Whoa!!! Nice find! Listen to him make the CIA sound all freindly, "a few assasinations of labor leaders, but nothing too bad"

gtjwkq
12-27-2007, 10:53 AM
I live in Brazil, welcome to my world. I'm surrounded by the same kind of political stupidity you guys see on DailyKos.com. Socialism and statism is almost the norm, libertarian thinking is mostly extinct. You find this in universities, where you would expect people to have some intelligence.

It's why I love the Ron Paul Revolution so much, they're slowly bringing back libertarianism to the spotlight. Maybe, just maybe, when America prospers with President Ron Paul, we'll learn by example.

user
12-27-2007, 11:01 AM
I live in Brazil, welcome to my world. I'm surrounded by the same kind of political stupidity you guys see on DailyKos.com. Socialism and statism is almost the norm, libertarian thinking is mostly extinct. You find this in universities, where you would expect people to have some intelligence.

It's why I love the Ron Paul Revolution so much, they're slowly bringing back libertarianism to the spotlight. Maybe, just maybe, when America prospers with President Ron Paul, we'll learn by example.
Let's hope so! It's been great to hear from freedom lovers all over the world during this campaign.