PDA

View Full Version : News on NCEL (National Clean Elections Lawsuit)




Crickett
12-24-2007, 12:24 AM
All 50 states were served, and all 50 entered motions to dismiss for various reasons. Now we have just filed our responses to those motions and an injunction for relief. These were VERY lengthy documents, but I will show you a tiny part of the injunction, below:

This memorandum is in support of Plaintiffs’ proposed Show Cause Order to temporarily and preliminarily enjoin, prohibit and restrict Defendants from conducting any caucus or primary election for President of the United States where the votes are to be counted IN SECRET, by machine or otherwise, and that do not utilize paper ballots with votes that are hand-marked and hand-counted in full public view, with the result of the count announced and posted at each polling station.
Any caucus or primary election for President of the United States where the votes are counted IN SECRET, that does not utilize hand marked paper ballots and does not count the votes cast for President of the United States by hand, in full public view, violates the natural Rights of all Plaintiffs to cast an effective vote for President, and to have all votes accurately counted.
The Presidential caucuses and primaries are scheduled to begin on January 3, 2008. See schedule below. On information and belief, Kansas has decided to conduct a caucus, rather than a primary, on a date uncertain.
JANUARY 2008
January 3: Iowa
January 8: New Hampshire
January 5: Wyoming (R)
January 15: Michigan
January 19: Nevada, South Carolina (R)
January 26: South Carolina (D)
January 29: Florida

FEBRUARY 2008
February 1: Maine (R)
February 5: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia,
Idaho (D), Illinois, Kansas (D), Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico (D),
New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Utah
February 9: Louisiana, Kansas (R)
February 10: Maine (D)
February 12: District of Columbia, Maryland, Virginia
February 19: Hawaii (D)1, Washington, Wisconsin

MARCH 2008
March 4: Ohio, Rhode Island, Texas, Vermont
March 8: Wyoming (D)
March 11: Mississippi

APRIL 2008
April 22: Pennsylvania

MAY 2008
May 6: Indiana, North Carolina
May 13: Nebraska, West Virginia
May 20: Kentucky, Oregon
May 27: Idaho (R)

JUNE 2008
June 3: Montana, New Mexico (R), South Dakota

AUGUST 2008
August 25-28: Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado

SEPTEMBER 2008
September 1-4: Republican National Convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota

Unless this Court acts swiftly to protect the integrity of these upcoming electoral events, Plaintiffs and the People of this nation will needlessly, but certainly, endure -- in violation of their Rights, an election that is by definition constitutionally deficient and which will deprive them of their Right to democratically elect the leaders of their choice.

--Much was also said of the AP and the Big 5 medias connection with vote counting..just a bit here to keep u up to date.

Bilgefisher
12-24-2007, 12:29 AM
This lawsuit is interesting. In Colorado, we had voting machines, but each machine made hard copy of our vote. This sped up the election process in my county (Denver county was a different issue). That hard copy was kept in case of dispute. I would like to hear your opinion on this type of system.

Hook
12-24-2007, 12:36 AM
I this another Condit-gram?

Carole
12-24-2007, 12:39 AM
Since the software is done by the voting machine companies and owned by Big Business and Media, it seems too easy to manipulate the machines. Code is kept secret ofr the obvious reasons, but also for the other obvious reasons the secrecy makes it suspect.

The paper trail is going to be tied to the machine naturally, still suspect to me, but I am not qualified to answer. These are just my concerns after having read so much about all the machines. Last election (or previous)Ohio was stolen, (Last election) Florida was stolen. A number of years ago in very early days of modems, WVa had a huge lawsuit over irregularities over Charleston election, not just the machines.

I believe in paper ballots counted in publice as it was intended. :D

I would love to hear programmers respond in this thread with their more expert opinions.

Maybe they could relieve concerns, but I suspect the opposite.

Anyone?

Crickett
12-24-2007, 12:44 AM
This lawsuit is interesting. In Colorado, we had voting machines, but each machine made hard copy of our vote. This sped up the election process in my county (Denver county was a different issue). That hard copy was kept in case of dispute. I would like to hear your opinion on this type of system.

Well, Colorado also entered a motion to dismiss, so they obviously are not for public counting of the votes either. The thing is, that the machines sometime do not count the votes correctly at the precinct level, but more than that, they are all fed into a database at Associated Press, who then counts them (on their black boxes) and feeds the info to the Big 5 medias. This is all spoken about in the lawsuit, and I wish I could post the whole thing but it is WAAy too long. Once they get these responses and affidavits posted on our emulated Pacer site, I will post you a link to it, so you can read it through, yourself.

Man from La Mancha
12-24-2007, 12:44 AM
Each precinct is only several hundred people and does not need any machines to record or count them. People can do that in only a couple hours. Any machine including mechanical ones can be fixed if you read any of the reports out there.

.

RP-Republican
12-24-2007, 12:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRGE8ppqb8k