Not Happy with Iowa Infomercial...

[zcopley]

I'm in Iowa right now visiting relatives over Christmas. Politics is crazy here. Every day, the political phone calls start at about 4:00 PM and keep on going until at least 9:00 PM, sometimes later. My relatives don't even bother to answer the phone if the Caller ID message says "Toll Free," or "Out of Area" or anything like that. They love the attention Iowa gets at this phase in the election cycle, but they say this is the price they pay.

It's nice to open the local Cedar Rapids paper and see quarter-page ads for the special Ron Paul infomercials and to see candidate profiles, and even Op Ed pieces by Ron Paul in the local paper. What a breath of fresh air.

The side of the family I'm staying with here are Democrats, and have heard almost nothing about Ron Paul. However, they are good, thinking people who are receptive to the candidates and have even offered to shuttle me around to see the various campaign appearances. Bill Clinton was here yesterday stumping for Hilary, and practically every other candidate is doing something or other within driving distance. Ron Paul wont be back in Iowa until the 27th, and I'm going to try to go see him.

The other night at 6:30 the Ron Paul informercial comes on and I make a big deal about wanting to see it so the family puts it on the TV and goes about their business, but the thing is on for about five minutes before all hell breaks loose.

I'm really disappointed by this informercial. Ron Paul leads with the divisive abortion issue, and in a ranting tone says that its his big goal to repeal the Roe v. Wade. That went over well with my Democratic, Pro-Choice in-laws (and Wife). Right there, I start hearing heckling from the peanut gallery. Next up: The phony war on terrorism and how seriously Ron Paul takes the issue. I felt like I was listening to a commercial for Rudy Giulliani, and that's certainly how my relatives took it. I couldn't even make it through the rest of the broadcast because an argument broke out.

Not good.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect the infomercial to instantly convert anyone in my Democrat family to be a Ron Paul supporter, but I was really hoping it would showcase what makes RP different than the other Republican candidates. I wanted the infomercial to talk about ending the war(s). I wanted him to make a big deal out of the our civil liberties being eroded by things like the Patriot Act. I wanted him to talk about the fiscal and economic crisis the country is in, and the plummeting value of the U.S. dollar. I wanted him to talk about individual rights and Liberty. And the Constitution! I wanted him to lead with the things that we Americans can agree on... But that didn't seem like the focus.

I hope the hell the campaign knows WTF its doing here in Iowa.

Has the campaign given up on trying to appeal to anyone in Iowa besides hard-core, old-school Republicans and the Christian conservative people that Mike Huckabee is popular with?

Then, this morning, I woke up to see a great video of RP on "Meet The Press," which I wish to hell I had decided to put on in this household instead of the infomercial. I should have watched the infomercial on YouTube instead. But I was excited to see something about Ron Paul on real TV, so that's why I tuned in.

Bummed out in Iowa,

Zach

PS: Here's the YouTube of the informercial in question:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNWHmiGj-k
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wekzQrQfacg

[FreedomLover]

Democrats are not the target demographic in Iowa.

[RoamZero]

The deadline to change registration from Democrat to Republican has past in Iowa right? And the caucus is closed? If that's the case then is there a point to try to convert Democrats? My guess is that the ad is targetted squarely towards converting Republicans.

[jarofclay]

Democrats are not the target demographic in Iowa.

qft

[devil21]

It just sounds like your family is die hard democrats. There's nothing wrong with that and RP certainly can't change everyone. I deal with the same stuff from die hard dems that I know. Btw, the infomercial is based mostly on his Iowa straw poll speech so it's geared toward the religious GOP in Iowa. It wouldn't run nationally and isnt designed to convert Iowa dems.

[ronpaulyourmom]

Democrats are not the target demographic in Iowa.

They should be considered. You can register on-site.

[Ron Paul Fan]

You were the one who made the critical error, not the campaign. Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party, not the Democratic Party. You should have pre viewed the infomercial or at least read what was in it first. Then you would have known that it was specifically made to court Republican voters in Iowa. The infomercial was a masterpiece, but you showed it to the wrong audience. I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa.

[JohnnyWrath]

The deadline to change registration from Democrat to Republican has past in Iowa right? And the caucus is closed? If that's the case then is there a point to try to convert Democrats? My guess is that the ad is targetted squarely towards converting Republicans.

+1


The infomercial was a masterpiece, but you showed it to the wrong audience. I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa. LOL

[driller80545]

that's too bad. RP's message is difficult to get quick because he does actually have something to say, but you have to listen to figure it out. people are used to 15 second pandering political speeches, not a real explanation of problems and answers to them, so they naturally make quick decisions before really hearing the message. i have had this exact problem with people that i am trying to get on board. i don't know if RP can say what he needs to in any better way, that is over my head, but I do know that the general public are not used to complicated answers in campaign spiels. keep up the good fight is all i can say. good luck and go RP!

[d991]

You're right, the campaign is NOT trying to appeal to Democrats in Iowa right now, nor should they be. The first step is to win the Republican nomination, and to do that they need to appeal to the Republican base in Iowa, to those people who are going to the caucus on Jan 3 and are still undecided.
I'm sorry if your family was turned off, but that just means you have that much more work to do to explain those positions to them. Show them some videos on YouTube. Show them about his stance on Iraq and on civil liberties in America. Show them his talks about the massive spending, borrowing and printing of money and how the entitlement programs will be insolvent in the next 20-30 years if something is not done now.

[Taco John]

You have to remember that if the focus had been on what the Democrats in Iowa wanted, there would have been a lot of Republicans in Iowa who would have reacted like your family did. This commercial was tailor made for Republican caucus goers.

[FreedomLover]

You were the one who made the critical error, not the campaign. Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party, not the Democratic Party. You should have pre viewed the infomercial or at least read what was in it first. Then you would have known that it was specifically made to court Republican voters in Iowa. The infomercial was a masterpiece, but you showed it to the wrong audience. I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa.


O cmon. Just because some democrats don't agree with everything he says doesn't mean they can't vote for him.

The only person you'll ever agree 100% on every issue is yourself.

[zcopley]

The infomercial was a masterpiece, but you showed it to the wrong audience. I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa.

Wow, that makes me feel great.

Zach

[JohnnyWrath]

btw, we also should consider that we don't want to scare off those who already did register as republican just to vote for Ron. Original poster does have a valid point.

[Cali4RonPaul]

If I was in iowa I wouldnt be bummed out, I would be working and putting up signs etc etc.

[drexhex]

I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa.

Cool it. How could showing the infomercial to his family possibly cost Ron Paul the election? Are you spending every second of every day writing letters or making phone calls to Iowa?

[driller80545]

Wow, that makes me feel great.

Zach

Nonsense, you are trying, excellent first step!

[Jojo]

I'm in Iowa right now visiting relatives over Christmas. Politics is crazy here. Every day, the political phone calls start at about 4:00 PM and keep on going until at least 9:00 PM, sometimes later. My relatives don't even bother to answer the phone if the Caller ID message says "Toll Free," or "Out of Area" or anything like that. They love the attention Iowa gets at this phase in the election cycle, but they say this is the price they pay.

It's nice to open the local Cedar Rapids paper and see quarter-page ads for the special Ron Paul infomercials and to see candidate profiles, and even Op Ed pieces by Ron Paul in the local paper. What a breath of fresh air.

The side of the family I'm staying with here are Democrats, and have heard almost nothing about Ron Paul. However, they are good, thinking people who are receptive to the candidates and have even offered to shuttle me around to see the various campaign appearances. Bill Clinton was here yesterday stumping for Hilary, and practically every other candidate is doing something or other within driving distance. Ron Paul wont be back in Iowa until the 27th, and I'm going to try to go see him.

The other night at 6:30 the Ron Paul informercial comes on and I make a big deal about wanting to see it so the family puts it on the TV and goes about their business, but the thing is on for about five minutes before all hell breaks loose.

I'm really disappointed by this informercial. Ron Paul leads with the divisive abortion issue, and in a ranting tone says that its his big goal to repeal the Roe v. Wade. That went over well with my Democratic, Pro-Choice in-laws (and Wife). Right there, I start hearing heckling from the peanut gallery. Next up: The phony war on terrorism and how seriously Ron Paul takes the issue. I felt like I was listening to a commercial for Rudy Giulliani, and that's certainly how my relatives took it. I couldn't even make it through the rest of the broadcast because an argument broke out.

Not good.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect the infomercial to instantly convert anyone in my Democrat family to be a Ron Paul supporter, but I was really hoping it would showcase what makes RP different than the other Republican candidates. I wanted the infomercial to talk about ending the war(s). I wanted him to make a big deal out of the our civil liberties being eroded by things like the Patriot Act. I wanted him to talk about the fiscal and economic crisis the country is in, and the plummeting value of the U.S. dollar. I wanted him to talk about individual rights and Liberty. And the Constitution! I wanted him to lead with the things that we Americans can agree on... But that didn't seem like the focus.

I hope the hell the campaign knows WTF its doing here in Iowa.

Has the campaign given up on trying to appeal to anyone in Iowa besides hard-core, old-school Republicans and the Christian conservative people that Mike Huckabee is popular with?

Then, this morning, I woke up to see a great video of RP on "Meet The Press," which I wish to hell I had decided to put on in this household instead of the infomercial. I should have watched the infomercial on YouTube instead. But I was excited to see something about Ron Paul on real TV, so that's why I tuned in.

Bummed out in Iowa,

Zach

PS: Here's the YouTube of the informercial in question:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNWHmiGj-k
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wekzQrQfacg

Your family's reaction is pretty much what I feared would happen when I first saw that infomercial.. I guess he is trying to speak to the old school Republicans but not sure if that's the best thing to do. It might be, in the sense that if it helps him finish high in Iowa, it will give him his first "real" result, which in turn could turn out more voters in the rest of the states. But how many voters he will be alienating at the same time, I'm not sure. Hopefully it will be limited to Iowa and hopefully he already has sufficient numbers of left leaning supporters in the state who won't be put off by this tv add.

I have faith that they know what they're doing though or that it magically will work out somehow :)

[Ron Paul Fan]

I was obviously joking about costing him the win in Iowa. Doesn't anyone understand satire anymore? It was likely that his blunder won't cost us anything. Would have been nice though to have some Democrats in our back pocket for the general election.

[0zzy]

Show them some of his more Democratic-friendly videos. :)

[FreedomLover]

I don't see the big deal in this infomercial "alienating" liberals. Ron Paul is running in the Republican Primary. democrats and lefties are already going to be voting for obama or edwards.

[noztnac]

You're right, the campaign is NOT trying to appeal to Democrats in Iowa right now, nor should they be. The first step is to win the Republican nomination, and to do that they need to appeal to the Republican base in Iowa, to those people who are going to the caucus on Jan 3 and are still undecided.
I'm sorry if your family was turned off, but that just means you have that much more work to do to explain those positions to them. Show them some videos on YouTube. Show them about his stance on Iraq and on civil liberties in America. Show them his talks about the massive spending, borrowing and printing of money and how the entitlement programs will be insolvent in the next 20-30 years if something is not done now.


I disagree. Ron Paul's message in this infomercial was so targeted to the right wing that it lost the left. It was quite possible to get the conservative vote without alienating democrats and independents. All he had to do was talk about monetary policy, freedom, the loss of civil liberties, etc. Once people are lured in they can check for themselves the specific details of divisive issues.

I think the infomercial wa a great idea but poorly executed. The writing was not very good and technically it looks very amateurish.

Better would have been to spend some money using good writers to help hone the message and to use film rather than video. The end result would have been much better and it could have been used in many states by re-editing digital copies of the footage on an AVID system.

[legion]

show them some youtube of bill maher fawning over ron

[RickNHouston]

I'm in Iowa right now visiting relatives over Christmas. Politics is crazy here. Every day, the political phone calls start at about 4:00 PM and keep on going until at least 9:00 PM, sometimes later. My relatives don't even bother to answer the phone if the Caller ID message says "Toll Free," or "Out of Area" or anything like that. They love the attention Iowa gets at this phase in the election cycle, but they say this is the price they pay.

It's nice to open the local Cedar Rapids paper and see quarter-page ads for the special Ron Paul infomercials and to see candidate profiles, and even Op Ed pieces by Ron Paul in the local paper. What a breath of fresh air.

The side of the family I'm staying with here are Democrats, and have heard almost nothing about Ron Paul. However, they are good, thinking people who are receptive to the candidates and have even offered to shuttle me around to see the various campaign appearances. Bill Clinton was here yesterday stumping for Hilary, and practically every other candidate is doing something or other within driving distance. Ron Paul wont be back in Iowa until the 27th, and I'm going to try to go see him.

The other night at 6:30 the Ron Paul informercial comes on and I make a big deal about wanting to see it so the family puts it on the TV and goes about their business, but the thing is on for about five minutes before all hell breaks loose.

I'm really disappointed by this informercial. Ron Paul leads with the divisive abortion issue, and in a ranting tone says that its his big goal to repeal the Roe v. Wade. That went over well with my Democratic, Pro-Choice in-laws (and Wife). Right there, I start hearing heckling from the peanut gallery. Next up: The phony war on terrorism and how seriously Ron Paul takes the issue. I felt like I was listening to a commercial for Rudy Giulliani, and that's certainly how my relatives took it. I couldn't even make it through the rest of the broadcast because an argument broke out.

Not good.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect the infomercial to instantly convert anyone in my Democrat family to be a Ron Paul supporter, but I was really hoping it would showcase what makes RP different than the other Republican candidates. I wanted the infomercial to talk about ending the war(s). I wanted him to make a big deal out of the our civil liberties being eroded by things like the Patriot Act. I wanted him to talk about the fiscal and economic crisis the country is in, and the plummeting value of the U.S. dollar. I wanted him to talk about individual rights and Liberty. And the Constitution! I wanted him to lead with the things that we Americans can agree on... But that didn't seem like the focus.

I hope the hell the campaign knows WTF its doing here in Iowa.

Has the campaign given up on trying to appeal to anyone in Iowa besides hard-core, old-school Republicans and the Christian conservative people that Mike Huckabee is popular with?

Then, this morning, I woke up to see a great video of RP on "Meet The Press," which I wish to hell I had decided to put on in this household instead of the infomercial. I should have watched the infomercial on YouTube instead. But I was excited to see something about Ron Paul on real TV, so that's why I tuned in.

Bummed out in Iowa,

Zach

PS: Here's the YouTube of the informercial in question:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNWHmiGj-k
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wekzQrQfacg

Zach,

What, exactly, did ur inlaws have a problem with... certainly sounds as if his supporters in attendance were pleased with it ...? I'm confused!

[itsnobody]

The deadline to change registration from Democrat to Republican has past in Iowa right? And the caucus is closed? If that's the case then is there a point to try to convert Democrats? My guess is that the ad is targetted squarely towards converting Republicans.

No, the deadline is the same as the caucus day, January 3rd, 2007

Remember all we need is 35,000 votes total in Iowa to win the caucus

[electronicmaji]

The leading parts even in iowa should of been the economy and the war...really....for realz...

[me3]

No, the deadline is the same as the caucus day, January 3rd, 2007

Remember all we need is 35,000 votes total in Iowa to win the caucus
Let's make it 38,000 and do it right.

[Korey Kaczynski]

Democrats? Ew :P

[itsnobody]

Let's make it 38,000 and do it right.

We'll probably get 50,000 votes

[InRonWeTrust]

IMO, Ron needs to zip his lips regarding abortion and other religious matters. It's extremely divisive.

[itsnobody]

IMO, Ron needs to zip his lips regarding abortion and other religious matters. It's extremely divisive.

Nah, its only divisive to liberals, I don't really understand the pro-choice position of the liberals, I mean these people care more about the life of a baby polar bear and other animals than they do an unborn human baby

Plus it's not really a religious issue, EVERY MAJOR RELIGION, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc...all say abortions are wrong and immoral

So it has really has to do with those non-religious and atheistic who support it

[adwads]

I hate the infomercial. I've seen AMPLE evidence that the official campaign is totally incompetent, I'm sorry to say. We need to shelve the infomercial.

[adwads]

Nah, its only divisive to liberals, I don't really understand the pro-choice position of the liberals, I mean these people care more about the life of a baby polar bear and other animals than they do an unborn human baby

Plus it's not really a religious issue, EVERY MAJOR RELIGION, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc...all say abortions are wrong and immoral

This isn't the time or place for a discussion of abortion. I personally am pro-choice and your comments just make me feel like arguing with you...the fact is, Ron Paul is personally pro-life, but he would leave the abortion issue up to the states...However, the informercial DOES NOT make that clear. THe informercial PRETENDS that RP will enact pro-life legislation at the federal level.

[JohnnyWrath]

IMO, Ron needs to zip his lips regarding abortion and other religious matters. It's extremely divisive.

True.

[itsnobody]

This isn't the time or place for a discussion of abortion. I personally am pro-choice and your comments just make me feel like arguing with you...the fact is, Ron Paul is personally pro-life, but he would leave the abortion issue up to the states...However, the informercial DOES NOT make that clear. THe informercial PRETENDS that RP will enact pro-life legislation at the federal level.

Well can you explain why you're pro-choice? Why does a woman have a right to kill an unborn baby but the government can't drill for oil in Alaska because there's a remote chance that a polar bear might get harmed?

[cicatrice]

You were the one who made the critical error, not the campaign. Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party, not the Democratic Party. You should have pre viewed the infomercial or at least read what was in it first. Then you would have known that it was specifically made to court Republican voters in Iowa. The infomercial was a masterpiece, but you showed it to the wrong audience. I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa.

Agreed. So take this as a lesson folks.

[adwads]

Well can you explain why you're pro-choice? Why does a woman have a right to kill an unborn baby but the government can't drill for oil in Alaska because there's a remote chance that a polar bear might get harmed?

I don't feel like arguing over abortion here...we did a poll (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=57472) and 1/3 of RP supporters on these forums are pro-choice, just deal with it--we all need to get along.

[JohnnyWrath]

wedge issue, and always will be.....divisive even here.

[Dan Klaus]

Ron Paul leads with the divisive abortion issue

That also made me uncomfortable - but surely someone has a strategy for leading with this issue....figured the Iraq war would be the hot button issue followed by taxes...oh well...

[me3]

I hate the infomercial. I've seen AMPLE evidence that the official campaign is totally incompetent, I'm sorry to say. We need to shelve the infomercial.
What are you waiting for? Shelve it already!

[XelR8r]

umm...I think the ad is designed for republicans, you know people who are opposed to abortion.

[adwads]

umm...I think the ad is designed for republicans, you know people who are opposed to abortion.

It's disingenuous because it doesn't explain how RP would leave it up to the states

[JohnnyWrath]

Top issues for Iowa republicans.

Among Republican caucus-goers, terrorism is the most important issue at 21.9 percent. The economy is second at 15.8 percent, followed by the Iraq war (15.5 percent), and immigration (13.7 percent). Rounding out the remaining issues are health care (9.7 percent), abortion (7.2 percent), education (4.0 percent), energy policy (2.9 percent), gay marriage (2.9 percent), agricultural policy (1.4 percent), and the environment (1.1 percent), while 2.2 percent responded "don't know" and 1.8 percent responded "other."


source (http://news-releases.uiowa.edu/2007/october/102907poll-issues.html)

[itsnobody]

I don't feel like arguing over abortion here...we did a poll and 1/3 of RP supporters on these forums are pro-choice, just deal with it--we all need to get along.

Well ok then, but I support Ron Paul and his pro-life views and still don't understand the pro-choice position

[dircha]

Returning abortion law to the states DIRECTLY contradicts the Democratic party platform. It sounds like your family isn't willing to budge on this, and if that's the case, they're not going to hear what they want from Ron Paul. Better they hear it now than in the general election against Hillary when it will be a key point of attack to rally the Democratic base against him.

There are way too many Democrats who will never even consider voting for a candidate who runs on returning abortion law to the states, to the extent that it isn't even worth courting the Democratic vote.

Republicans are much more flexible. Most will support a candidate who runs on only returning abortion law to the states. Most will support a candidate even if he or she doesn't run on passing a Constitutional amendment outlawing it.

Yes, Ron Paul draws some support from Democrats, but the vast majority of his support is from Republicans and Independents.

[dircha]

It's disingenuous because it doesn't explain how RP would leave it up to the states

But he is personally very strongly anti-abortion.

These are his personal views, and part of being a candidate for office is that many voters want to be assured that the candidate shares their values.

Yes, he has said that he does not believe it is a federal issue, and I expect him to stand by that, but there is nothing disingenuous about him expressing his personal views to voters who want to hear them (Iowa Republican caucus goers).

He can't please everyone all the time. Some issues are simply divisive, and there's nothing we can do about it.

[K1RBY]

so what some of you are saying is, Ron should not state some of his goals & beliefs, in order to pander to democrats &/or pro-choice moderates. did you forget why we all support paul in the first place??..because he says what he thinks & he has nothing to hide.

you people wanting him to shut up about issues that he feels are important, need to look elsewhere for phonies, if thats what you want.

[InRonWeTrust]

so what some of you are saying is, Ron should not state some of his goals & beliefs, in order to pander to democrats &/or pro-choice moderates. did you forget why we all support paul in the first place??..because he says what he thinks & he has nothing to hide.

you people wanting him to shut up about issues that he feels are important, need to look elsewhere for phonies, if thats what you want.


He can just simply say that the federal government has nothing to do with this issue. It should be decided by states. End of story. We don't need infomercials pandering to rednecks on the abortion issue.

[therealjjj77]

I know a lot of Democrats who are still going to vote for him irregardless.

[NewEnd]

You were the one who made the critical error, not the campaign. Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party, not the Democratic Party. You should have pre viewed the infomercial or at least read what was in it first. Then you would have known that it was specifically made to court Republican voters in Iowa. The infomercial was a masterpiece, but you showed it to the wrong audience. I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa.

:rolleyes:

The infomercial was divisive. It really turned off someone I know, who had supported Paul in the past, but changed his mind over the abortion thing. He then saw the infomercial, and that was it.

His BIG issue was the Fed, BTW.

Honestly, WTF were they thinking?

[itsnobody]

He can just simply say that the federal government has nothing to do with this issue. It should be decided by states. End of story. We don't need infomercials pandering to rednecks on the abortion issue.

He's not pandering to anyone, he never does, it's what he really believes

[Crickett]

I have been saying this for 2 weeks it seems. Part 2 (if you can get to it) is WAY better. I mentioned when it first came out that the utube views on the first part (at the time) were four times the views of the 2nd part (no one wanted to watch more) but no one listened to me then, just flamed me..LOL

[electronicmaji]

we understand his views BUT WHY does he lead of with that one...its not even in the top 10 issues for the elections period!

[K1RBY]

so, abortion is divisive, so what?..dr. paul is right, you friend is wrong. im glad RP is saying exactly what he intends to do.

this is obviously a big issue to paul or he wouldnt be trying to take overturn roe v wade.

what would RP say if you told him "oh you shoudnt bring that up so much..you might turn some people off"?..

i swear you people dont have a fuckin clue what makes RP such a stand up guy.

[jorlowitz]

Though Ron Paul understands the philosophical divide between Democrats and Republicans (or Socialism and Individualism), I'd argue that many individuals who align themselves with these parties do not. If that's true, than Paul should aim to explain himself to Democrats as well as everyone else. Paul's prescriptions for this countries problem would not apply only to Republicans--the country's problems certainly don't--and so I can see no reason why he wouldn't explain himself to Democrats as well (even if Paul is 'building his base', a large issue impeding that is the much broader perception that his philosophy is way to radical--addressing the nation's problems more directly or specifically addressing Democrats might be away to not receive the continual marginalization his campaign has been receiving).

[TwiLeXia]

I've found that the best way of introducing Ron Paul is to show them the "A New Hope" video on Youtube, followed up by usually a page scan of his voting record, and then finally the video "Ron Paul Rising." The thing is a lot of people don't trust merely a politician - they want to see actual faces who support this candidate, and Ron Paul Rising is an excellent video which shows this.

I don't know about the Iowa Info-Ads, I personally don't think they're good at all. You really don't need 30 minutes to convince someone to vote for Ron Paul.

In fact I believe merely 5 minutes will be enough - simply show why we need Ron Paul - FINANCIALLY. That's all. A lot of Americans don't care that much about issues like abortion and immigration - at least not the people I talk to. Money talks though, and if you talk about Ron Paul concerning how he'll relieve us of our taxes and he has a plan for it, you will be able to convert almost anyone.

[InRonWeTrust]

90% of the young people who support Ron on the net don't agree with this position on abortion. He should just keep his opinions on this to himself, since they have nothing to do with the position he running for - President.

[NewEnd]

i swear you people dont have a fuckin clue what makes RP such a stand up guy.

I swear you dont have a fucking clue as to why he is so popular to both democrats and republicans. If he keeps up these shenanigans, he'll only be popular with Republicans.


There was no need to sound so combative about abortion... especially since Iowa is an open caucus.

[Paulitician]

Should have made them watch or listen to the best interviews where Ron gets to fully explain himself.

[AggieforPaul]

Please drop this. The ad was targeted at Iowa Republicans.

Believe it or not, half the country is pro-life, and lots of people (especially republicans) demand their candidate be pro life. Just like its important for an anti-war Republican to differentiate himself from the field, its also important for a pro life libertarian to do the same.

[AggieforPaul]

90% of the young people who support Ron on the net don't agree with this position on abortion. He should just keep his opinions on this to himself, since they have nothing to do with the position he running for - President.

Ron Paul didnt get where he is by pulling punches. He's a Christian and he's pro-life. End of story. If you dont like it, that's your problem and not his.

[evadmurd]

No, the deadline is the same as the caucus day, January 3rd, 2007


I thought only independents (or otherwise uncommitted voters) could register on caucus day for individual party caucuses. At least that is the perception given from this letter writing campaign going on.

[NewEnd]

Ron Paul didnt get where he is by pulling punches.

Yes he did.
He wouldn't nearly have the popularity he has now if that iowa informercial was the first one people were watching 7 months ago.

His position of leaving it to the states was palatable to many on the left, but trying to say we should define life as beginning at conception, is going to scare away a lot of people on the left.



Please drop this. The ad was targeted at Iowa Republicans.

Unfortunately, independants can still caucus in the Republican primaries, up to election day.

[OferNave]

Wow, that makes me feel great.

Zach

Don't feel bad,

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Democrats are not the target demographic in Iowa.

+1

[bucfish]

Giving the power back to the stands to decide. This is a good way to attack divisive issues like abortion.

[Naraku]

Don't bother with pro-choicers. Anyone who would tacitly support the mass murder of human children without questioning is not deserving of a discussion on the issue. I've had long arguments with people on this issue and believe me, logic usually doesn't work on them.

The fact is probably 80% of the population is pro-life in their everyday with about 40% of them being pro-choice politically only because they see it as unstoppable and therefore not something which should be illegal.

However, on abortion I think Paul should handle it better. A lot of people are opposed to partial birth abortion even if they consider themselves pro-choice so he should definitely have harped on that more. Anyone who actually believes partial birth abortion is not at least morally repugnant if not illegal is being irrational because the same argument for partial birth abortion could be used to justify infanticide. So he wouldn't be losing any viable supporters there.

The thing I love most about Ron Paul is the fact when he says he's pro-life he means it from cradle to grave, more like womb to grave.

Oh yeah and it's total bullshit to call abortion a "religious" issue. There are plenty of pro-life atheists out there.

[Question_Authority]

I agree the infomercial sucks. The campaign is not very bright.

[dircha]

Don't bother with pro-choicers. Anyone who would tacitly support the mass murder of human children without questioning is not deserving of a discussion on the issue. I've had long arguments with people on this issue and believe me, logic usually doesn't work on them.

The fact is probably 80% of the population is pro-life in their everyday with about 40% of them being pro-choice politically only because they see it as unstoppable and therefore not something which should be illegal.

However, on abortion I think Paul should handle it better. A lot of people are opposed to partial birth abortion even if they consider themselves pro-choice so he should definitely have harped on that more. Anyone who actually believes partial birth abortion is not at least morally repugnant if not illegal is being irrational because the same argument for partial birth abortion could be used to justify infanticide. So he wouldn't be losing any viable supporters there.

The thing I love most about Ron Paul is the fact when he says he's pro-life he means it from cradle to grave, more like womb to grave.

Oh yeah and it's total bullshit to call abortion a "religious" issue. There are plenty of pro-life atheists out there.

These people who are offended at any mention of Congressman Paul's strong pro-life convictions aren't supporters we can count on anyhow.

And this idea that we are courting pro-choice Democrats is a joke. Ron Paul supporters far and away are Republicans and Independents. Repealing Roe v Wade directly contradicts the core tenants of the Democratic platform. Pro-choice Democrats have zero-tolerance for dissent on this issue.

We have better things to do than worrying about offending crossover pro-choice Democrats.

These people don't even respect Congressman Paul's personal beliefs. They want to impose their personal beliefs and opinions on other American through the force of federal government, and they can't tolerate the idea that Congressman Paul doesn't share their bigoted, amoral, intolerant views. We see it right here on these forums. They call him ignorant, prejudiced, and behind the times.

[LibertyEagle]

I didn't realize that the Iowa Caucus was open. If that is truly the case, geez, the pounding on abortion doesn't seem too bright. Especially, when it doesn't mention that he wants it returned to the states.

I dunno. I guess we will see what happens. There is very little we can do about it now, but ask them not to use this in other states without massive revision.

[tmg19103]

Well, there is another thread going right now on how RP just jumped IN ONE WEEK from 4% to 10% in Iowa.

The infomercial just started a week ago. If the infomercial is so bad, how do you explain RP going from 4% to 10% in one week!? That is HUGE and this infomercial is perfect for your typical conservative, Iowa Republican.

EDIT: the thread with RP jumping in the Iowa polls - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=64736

[LibertyEagle]

These people who are offended at any mention of Congressman Paul's strong pro-life convictions aren't supporters we can count on anyhow.



That's not true at all. A whole lot of women are very concerned about the thought of going back to the way it used to be. Coat hangers and the like. If you had lived during that time and are a woman, you probably understand what I am talking about.

But, I have supported Ron Paul for over 20 years. I don't support him because of his strong pro-life position, I support him because of his stance on economic issues, the proper role of government, individual liberty, and the like.

One doesn't have to agree with him on everything, to be a strong supporter. Some of us actually know how to prioritize, believe it or not. If our dollar totally collapses, and we become a police state, not too many people are going to rank abortion as one of their major concerns.

[dircha]

Well, there is another thread going right now on how RP just jumped IN ONE WEEK from 4% to 10% in Iowa.

The infomercial just started a week ago. If the infomercial is so bad, how do you explain RP going from 4% to 10% in one week!? That is HUGE and this infomercial is perfect for your typical conservative, Iowa Republican.

Right on. Pro-choice Democrats aren't going to caucus for someone who is fighting to overturn Roe v Wade, who believes strongly that life begins at conception, and that abortion is murder.

I don't believe it for a second. These people show outright disdain for Congressman Paul's personal convictions.

[manuel]

I screen everything I show to my friends, co-workers, and family.

[Adamsa]

The pro-life thing is a good one to get evangelicals away from Huck and/or Romney.

[literatim]

That's not true at all. A whole lot of women are very concerned about the thought of going back to the way it used to be. Coat hangers and the like. If you had lived during that time and are a woman, you probably understand what I am talking about.

Over 50% of women are pro-life.

[tmg19103]

Well, there is another thread going right now on how RP just jumped IN ONE WEEK from 4% to 10% in Iowa.

The infomercial just started a week ago. If the infomercial is so bad, how do you explain RP going from 4% to 10% in one week!? That is HUGE and this infomercial is perfect for your typical conservative, Iowa Republican.

EDIT: the thread with RP jumping in the Iowa polls - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=64736

Also, how is pro-life preacher Huckabee doing so well in Iowa?

You have to understand your audience. This thread is stupid if you show this commercial to your liberal pro-choice Democrat family members and then get mad at the infomercial. It says nothing about the infomercial as that is not the target audience. The infomerical is kicking ass and taking names.

[NewEnd]

These people who are offended at any mention of Congressman Paul's strong pro-life convictions aren't supporters we can count on anyhow.

:rolleyes:
There are many issues more important than abortion, and for paul to go from a lackadaisical "it should be left up to the states" to a hard-right "we need a federal law that says life begins at conception" is not the way to make friends.


And this idea that we are courting pro-choice Democrats is a joke. Ron Paul supporters far and away are Republicans and Independents. Repealing Roe v Wade directly contradicts the core tenants of the Democratic platform. Pro-choice Democrats have zero-tolerance for dissent on this issue.

Ron Paul cannot win by being overly zealous on this issue. He has lost support on the left, which we desperately need, because half of the rigth hates Paul because of the war..... and there are plenty of pro-life alternatives in the primaries.


..... their bigoted, amoral, intolerant views....

This is the kind of shit I can't stand in feminazi or christian crusader dialogue. One should be able to at least respect the opinion of the other side in this matter.

[PimpBlimp]

Sorry liberals, Ron Paul is a Republican.

You can go vote for a democrat if you want but don't come crying here when we are still in Iraq 10 years from now.

[LibertyEagle]

Over 50% of women are pro-life.

There's a difference between being pro-life and defining life as beginning at conception.

[LibertyEagle]

Sorry liberals, Ron Paul is a Republican.

You can go vote for a democrat if you want but don't come crying here when we are still in Iraq 10 years from now.

Why does this strike me as rather odd? It was the Republicans who got us into this war. Or, did you forget?

By the way, I am a registered Republican and have been, since my very first vote for Ronald Reagan.

[Adamsa]

Yeah, Ron Paul is a conservative, but he is also one of the few honest men that can attract people from all walks of life.

[V-rod]

Why do I keep seeing threads that mention pro choice men who makes the women's right to choose abortion a big issue for themselves. I don't get it. I guess its not a Southern thing.

[tmg19103]

I'm pro-choice but I support this infomercial. You can't agree with every politician on every issue and I think educated pro-choice RP supporters can look beyond this issue - as so many college kids who support RP do.

That being said, it is all about the target audience. This infomercial is great for Iowa Republicans. In New Hampshire, I'd downplay the pro-life part and put it at the end if at all. Depends on who you are targeting.

The great thing is RP has big tent and all are welcome - even pro-choice Democrats if they can look beyond that issue and realize that there are bigger issues for most people and RP is just following the constitution - return the abortion issues to each state as the federal government has no authority over it per the constitution. That is how you explain it to pro-choice Dems, not that they will buy it - but it is the proper way to go per the constitution.

[PledgeForPaul]

These people who are offended at any mention of Congressman Paul's strong pro-life convictions aren't supporters we can count on anyhow.

And this idea that we are courting pro-choice Democrats is a joke.

I typically vote Democrat and am pro choice.

I am the Ron Paul precint captain for the 3rd biggest precinct in Iowa, have put up 4 signs, have convinced at least 10 friends in Iowa to caucus for Ron Paul, and have made just over 800 phone calls for the official campaign (no idea how many of those will translate to votes).

I am insulted by this comment from dircha, and the majority of this thread. I disagree with Ron Paul's position to repeal Roe vs Wade, but because of his other stances am working very hard to get votes for him in Iowa.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

I just hope your mistake doesn't cost Ron Paul the win in Iowa.

Easy there soldier...

.

[eldeeder]

The deadline to change registration from Democrat to Republican has past in Iowa right? And the caucus is closed? If that's the case then is there a point to try to convert Democrats? My guess is that the ad is targetted squarely towards converting Republicans.


No, you can register either way at the actual cacaus..

[eldeeder]

I typically vote Democrat and am pro choice.

I am the Ron Paul precint captain for the 3rd biggest precinct in Iowa, have put up 4 signs, have convinced at least 10 friends in Iowa to caucus for Ron Paul, and have made just over 800 phone calls for the official campaign (no idea how many of those will translate to votes).

I am insulted by this comment from dircha, and the majority of this thread. I disagree with Ron Paul's position to repeal Roe vs Wade, but because of his other stances am working very hard to get votes for him in Iowa.


All repealing Roe V Wade does is leaves the law open for the states to decide. Ron Paul is Pro-Life, but doesnt want the federal government involved in it. Thats the message that I like. "ITS NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS JOB."

[PledgeForPaul]

All repealing Roe V Wade does is leaves the law open for the states to decide. Ron Paul is Pro-Life, but doesnt want the federal government involved in it. Thats the message that I like. "ITS NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS JOB."

and I think it should be the federal governments job.

[Mark Rushmore]

..

[NewEnd]

All repealing Roe V Wade does is leaves the law open for the states to decide. Ron Paul is Pro-Life, but doesnt want the federal government involved in it. Thats the message that I like. "ITS NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENTS JOB."

Yet the infomercial shows him at a speech saying there should be an amendment defining life as beginning at conception.

[FreeTraveler]

Yet the infomercial shows him at a speech saying there should be an amendment defining life as beginning at conception.

If that amendment passed, then it would be the FedGov's business, because it would be a Constitutional issue. It's not, presently, thus Ron's position.

[grizzums]

I am an independent that has always been pro-choice. I can respect both sides of this divisive issue. It bothers me when one side tries to paint their side as being more righteous than the other. As strong as I am about pro-choice, this infomercial does not turn me off in the least...it does not offend me....people have very differing views, plain and simple. Besides the staunch advocacy for smaller government, strict adherence to the constitution, position of bringing our troops home and willingness to talk about issues that all the other candidates are afraid of, it is this man's integrity, principals, non pandering campaign and decision to win this election by his beliefs or not at all that has pulled me and others that I know into fray....the foundation for Dr. Paul is as strong as it is for this very reason, imho. More than my vote and my support in spreading his message....its the immense respect that I have for this man that I feel the strongest about, hands down.

[NewEnd]

If that amendment passed, then it would be the FedGov's business, because it would be a Constitutional issue. It's not, presently, thus Ron's position.


pretty hard to come away with this conclusion from the infomercial.

[phree]

Infomercial not good.

[davidt!]

This is what Ron Paul stands for. That is why I am voting for him. Maybe your relatives need to find a candidate that represents their veiws.

[tanstaafl]

I guess 6 months and $25M+ wasn't enough for Headquarters to arrange for a "fireside chat" from Paul, so people could see his warmth, passion, reason and integrity?

Sometimes I wonder if some key members of HQ - specifically those in charge of media production decisions - aren't actually working for the opposition....

[ThePieSwindler]

:rolleyes:

The infomercial was divisive. It really turned off someone I know, who had supported Paul in the past, but changed his mind over the abortion thing. He then saw the infomercial, and that was it.

His BIG issue was the Fed, BTW.

Honestly, WTF were they thinking?

If his big issue is the fed and not abortion, why is he turned off by abortion? I love how people will vote for uber-statists who share their views on one insular little issue but are more of the same, while they will balk at someone who is obviously best for the country but on their little pet issue, they take an irrational stance that "oh well this wasnt an issue for me i really think hes the best candidate because of (insert important issue no one else is talking about here, like, the Fed), but OMG HE IS PRO LIFE WELL, THERE GOES THAT!

This is why 1)democracy(and even republics) are tragically flawed forms of governmen and 2) we are in the mess we are today, partly due to irrational idiots like your friend.

[ThePieSwindler]

90% of the young people who support Ron on the net don't agree with this position on abortion. He should just keep his opinions on this to himself, since they have nothing to do with the position he running for - President.

and 78.5433% of statistics cited on an internet message board are pulled out of someones ass.

Source (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)

[Karsten]

It was probably the reason we're at 10% now in Iowa, up from 4% a week ago. So chill out.

[ThePieSwindler]

I guess 6 months and $25M+ wasn't enough for Headquarters to arrange for a "fireside chat" from Paul, so people could see his warmth, passion, reason and integrity?

Sometimes I wonder if some key members of HQ - specifically those in charge of media production decisions - aren't actually working for the opposition....

Sometimes I wonder if key members of the forums - specifically those who don't know what the fuck they are talking about - aren't actually that obtuse.

[tanstaafl]

If that amendment passed, then it would be the FedGov's business, because it would be a Constitutional issue. It's not, presently, thus Ron's position.

On most issues, Ron goes to the Constitution and he doesn't flip flop. His statement that abortion is a States issue since it isn't mentioned in the Constitution is the one he should stick with - it can satisfy all sides reasonably well, but most important it is the Constitutional answer. My guess is that Dr. Paul would lose about half his current base if it became clear he was going to make abortion illegal on a federal level.

Ron Paul may be running as a Republican because that is the best fit, but the traditional Republican base is NOT what is going to decide this election. So, Dr. Paul should state that he is has delivered 4,000 babies and is opposed to abortion BUT abortion is really a States issue and he is not running for State office. He should say that and he should stick to that. It would be sufficient for most pro-life supporters who are Constitutionalists and be bearable for most pro-choice people who are Constitutionalists. His current flip flopping on this issue is causing a LOT of damage...and isn't going to do the unborn babies any good, either.

[Spideynw]

Overturning Roe vs. Wade should have been a great opportunity for you to talk to your family about abortion and then more about Ron Paul. Ask them if they are for abortions in both the second and third trimesters, which Roe vs. Wade legalized. Ask them how many doctors do they really think would be willing to even perform a second or third trimester abortion.

Most Dems are "pro-choice", but my guess is that 99% of them are only "pro-choice" for the first trimester.

[emk]

You'll never find a candidate with whom you agree 100%, unless you're running for office even then, and even then you may not be able to run 1:1 on your own personal views.

[tanstaafl]

Sometimes I wonder if key members of the forums - specifically those who don't know what the fuck they are talking about - aren't actually that obtuse.


Well, straighten me out. Why is it that the media coming from HQ is so unimaginative and bland? If they would explain their problems maybe we could help.

[ThePieSwindler]

Well, straighten me out. Why is it that the media coming from HQ is so unimaginative and bland? If they would explain their problems maybe we could help.

All i'm saying is that its foolish to just jump straight to the most outlandish conclusion. Apply Ockham's razor, and you realize that its just the campaign trying to emphasize his more traditionally conservative points to a fairly social conservative base, and it doesnt really seem to be lowering his poll numbers in Iowa or anything... *cough*. I wholly agree that the infomercial was started poorly. I disagree that all their media is unimaginitive and bland - alot of their ads and commercials i'm quite fond of, some, not so much. The infomercial is very good except for HOW it is started. I do wish they would have put more emphasis on his position on currency, the war, and spending/taxes. But I believe the ad will turn on more people than it will turn off. Show more left-leaning potential supporters other videos.

I think the thing is that, the campaign is actually running things pretty well in terms of appealing to the targeted base. The grassroots can pick up the slack in other areas, which is really what it has done. The grassroots was the driving force early on, and is even more of a powerhouse now - except that its alot better at targeting the average American who doesnt really fall into party lines but wants an honest man for president. The grassroots can be more flexible, and thus can bring in a bigger-tent mix of supporters. It would be alot less efficient if the official campaign tried to do such. I think their methods are fine for the demographic they are trying to target, which is partially the point of politics. This is a revolution, yes, but the revolution part must be at the grassroots level. If the campaign tries to integrate any of that, it will be a lot less successful and an even bigger waste of money than these expenditures "seem" to be. Let the campaign do the traditional, official stuff, whilst we facilitate the revolution.

That being said, i do think their biggest mistakes involve dropping the ball on many ballot initiatives where grassroots has had to pick up the slack. Thats something HQ HAS to be doing.

[emk]

Our hip, snazzy, 21st century YouTube videos will NOT be understood by an older audience.

[Naraku]

LibertyEagle


That's not true at all. A whole lot of women are very concerned about the thought of going back to the way it used to be. Coat hangers and the like. If you had lived during that time and are a woman, you probably understand what I am talking about.

Yeah women shouldn't have to kill their babies themselves. They should be able to pay someone to kill their babies. They have a right to kill their babies after all. The courts said so.

NewEnd


There are many issues more important than abortion, and for paul to go from a lackadaisical "it should be left up to the states" to a hard-right "we need a federal law that says life begins at conception" is not the way to make friends.

He has not changed anything. He said he supports leaving abortion up to the states through and through. He said after Roe v. Wade is abolished it would be left up to the states. If he proposed any sort of constitutional amendment it would be like the flag-burning one where the states are given the power to ban it.


This is the kind of shit I can't stand in feminazi or christian crusader dialogue. One should be able to at least respect the opinion of the other side in this matter.

If we were talking about homosexuality or drug use you may have a point, but we're talking about abortion, the murder of an unborn child. If a person can't call support of that immoral, bigoted, and intolerant then we've truly fallen as a society.

grizzums


It bothers me when one side tries to paint their side as being more righteous than the other.

It's not being righteous to stand up for what's right.

Spideynw


Most Dems are "pro-choice", but my guess is that 99% of them are only "pro-choice" for the first trimester.

I'm not sure about 99%, since I know there are some self-proclaimed Democrats who see abortion as not only a right, but a good idea. However, a large number do not support partial-birth abortion. Some are actually pro-life and others are like I said, against abortion but believe it should be legal regardless.

What I find most interesting is that people who are pro-choice can't give any good reason for why it should be legal, but have so many reasons why it shouldn't be illegal. The only people who really have a good reason are those who talk about it as a form of population control, a way of preventing mental retardation and criminality or something to that effect. However, those arguments are basically repackaged eugenics so it's kind of sad that those are the best arguments for abortion.

It seems the most popular argument is the idea that because some women would do it illegally, which most who do it now wouldn't, it must be made legal. Of course, the same logic applies to murder in general and theft, but people aren't trying to legalize them. Fact is, there is no logical, ethical, legal, or scientific argument that can justify abortion outside of the crazy eugenics-style arguments and that's only on a scientific and logical level. It certainly isn't ethical.

[ThePieSwindler]

The nice thing about the abortion debate is that it might be solved in the somewhat near-future- by neither side, nor government, but by medicine. They now have the technology to transfer living fetuses from an unwilling parent to a willing parent, and other forms of medical technology that will make the so-called "need" for abortion a thing of the past. Much like stem cell research, science has indeed provided solutions where mere politics have failed.

[mkrfctr]

1. I think the infomercial and nearly all their TV ads (the Christmas one was okay) suck production values wise.
2. I hope that the choice of material used in the Iowa infomercial was well thought out and is successful, it seems a bit counter intuitive to use a speech covering topics that people say are less important than other ones the infomercial didn't cover

As to the abortion thing - it's simple, follow along.

Ron Paul's stance.
1. Life begins at conception
2. Abortion therefore is an issue of a crime (murder) against another person and unrelated to any privacy issues (can you murder your child in the privacy of your home? no, so same goes to can you murder your child in the privacy of your womb, no.)
3. Violent crimes against a person is not prosecuted on the federal level; ergo states would be responsible for setting the level of investigation, resources used in prosecuting, and terms of punishment. Some states would be more lenient than others, and some would simply turn a blind eye, effectively keeping abortion legal.

[literatim]

:rolleyes:
There are many issues more important than abortion, and for paul to go from a lackadaisical "it should be left up to the states" to a hard-right "we need a federal law that says life begins at conception" is not the way to make friends.

Ron Paul isn't out to 'make friends'. Murder is a State crime, not federal.

[RevolutionSD]

I'm in Iowa right now visiting relatives over Christmas. Politics is crazy here. Every day, the political phone calls start at about 4:00 PM and keep on going until at least 9:00 PM, sometimes later. My relatives don't even bother to answer the phone if the Caller ID message says "Toll Free," or "Out of Area" or anything like that. They love the attention Iowa gets at this phase in the election cycle, but they say this is the price they pay.

It's nice to open the local Cedar Rapids paper and see quarter-page ads for the special Ron Paul infomercials and to see candidate profiles, and even Op Ed pieces by Ron Paul in the local paper. What a breath of fresh air.

The side of the family I'm staying with here are Democrats, and have heard almost nothing about Ron Paul. However, they are good, thinking people who are receptive to the candidates and have even offered to shuttle me around to see the various campaign appearances. Bill Clinton was here yesterday stumping for Hilary, and practically every other candidate is doing something or other within driving distance. Ron Paul wont be back in Iowa until the 27th, and I'm going to try to go see him.

The other night at 6:30 the Ron Paul informercial comes on and I make a big deal about wanting to see it so the family puts it on the TV and goes about their business, but the thing is on for about five minutes before all hell breaks loose.

I'm really disappointed by this informercial. Ron Paul leads with the divisive abortion issue, and in a ranting tone says that its his big goal to repeal the Roe v. Wade. That went over well with my Democratic, Pro-Choice in-laws (and Wife). Right there, I start hearing heckling from the peanut gallery. Next up: The phony war on terrorism and how seriously Ron Paul takes the issue. I felt like I was listening to a commercial for Rudy Giulliani, and that's certainly how my relatives took it. I couldn't even make it through the rest of the broadcast because an argument broke out.

Not good.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect the infomercial to instantly convert anyone in my Democrat family to be a Ron Paul supporter, but I was really hoping it would showcase what makes RP different than the other Republican candidates. I wanted the infomercial to talk about ending the war(s). I wanted him to make a big deal out of the our civil liberties being eroded by things like the Patriot Act. I wanted him to talk about the fiscal and economic crisis the country is in, and the plummeting value of the U.S. dollar. I wanted him to talk about individual rights and Liberty. And the Constitution! I wanted him to lead with the things that we Americans can agree on... But that didn't seem like the focus.

I hope the hell the campaign knows WTF its doing here in Iowa.

Has the campaign given up on trying to appeal to anyone in Iowa besides hard-core, old-school Republicans and the Christian conservative people that Mike Huckabee is popular with?

Then, this morning, I woke up to see a great video of RP on "Meet The Press," which I wish to hell I had decided to put on in this household instead of the infomercial. I should have watched the infomercial on YouTube instead. But I was excited to see something about Ron Paul on real TV, so that's why I tuned in.

Bummed out in Iowa,

Zach

PS: Here's the YouTube of the informercial in question:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNWHmiGj-k
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wekzQrQfacg

I'm SHOCKED and VERY DISAPPOINTED that he would lead off with the divisive and minor abortion issue.
Why? What good will this do?
Dammit.

[davidt!]

Let's not forget that Ron Paul is a Republican and was probably trying to appeal to Iowa Republicans which most of are pro-life.

[RevolutionSD]

Let's not forget that Ron Paul is a Republican and was probably trying to appeal to Iowa Republicans which most of are pro-life.

ok, true and good point but many are not religious and won't like the main issue being abortion.

[kill the banks]

it's a 'target' infomercial

kill the banks

[Gimpster]

I'm beating a dead horse here, but-

The informercial was made to coax out the people who show up to Iowa republican caucuses in droves: evangelical christians.

That was like trying to show a hardcore porno at a nursing home :)

[walt]

I'm in Iowa right now visiting relatives over Christmas. Politics is crazy here. Every day, the political phone calls start at about 4:00 PM and keep on going until at least 9:00 PM, sometimes later. My relatives don't even bother to answer the phone if the Caller ID message says "Toll Free," or "Out of Area" or anything like that. They love the attention Iowa gets at this phase in the election cycle, but they say this is the price they pay.

It's nice to open the local Cedar Rapids paper and see quarter-page ads for the special Ron Paul infomercials and to see candidate profiles, and even Op Ed pieces by Ron Paul in the local paper. What a breath of fresh air.

The side of the family I'm staying with here are Democrats, and have heard almost nothing about Ron Paul. However, they are good, thinking people who are receptive to the candidates and have even offered to shuttle me around to see the various campaign appearances. Bill Clinton was here yesterday stumping for Hilary, and practically every other candidate is doing something or other within driving distance. Ron Paul wont be back in Iowa until the 27th, and I'm going to try to go see him.

The other night at 6:30 the Ron Paul informercial comes on and I make a big deal about wanting to see it so the family puts it on the TV and goes about their business, but the thing is on for about five minutes before all hell breaks loose.

I'm really disappointed by this informercial. Ron Paul leads with the divisive abortion issue, and in a ranting tone says that its his big goal to repeal the Roe v. Wade. That went over well with my Democratic, Pro-Choice in-laws (and Wife). Right there, I start hearing heckling from the peanut gallery. Next up: The phony war on terrorism and how seriously Ron Paul takes the issue. I felt like I was listening to a commercial for Rudy Giulliani, and that's certainly how my relatives took it. I couldn't even make it through the rest of the broadcast because an argument broke out.

Not good.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect the infomercial to instantly convert anyone in my Democrat family to be a Ron Paul supporter, but I was really hoping it would showcase what makes RP different than the other Republican candidates. I wanted the infomercial to talk about ending the war(s). I wanted him to make a big deal out of the our civil liberties being eroded by things like the Patriot Act. I wanted him to talk about the fiscal and economic crisis the country is in, and the plummeting value of the U.S. dollar. I wanted him to talk about individual rights and Liberty. And the Constitution! I wanted him to lead with the things that we Americans can agree on... But that didn't seem like the focus.

I hope the hell the campaign knows WTF its doing here in Iowa.

Has the campaign given up on trying to appeal to anyone in Iowa besides hard-core, old-school Republicans and the Christian conservative people that Mike Huckabee is popular with?

Then, this morning, I woke up to see a great video of RP on "Meet The Press," which I wish to hell I had decided to put on in this household instead of the infomercial. I should have watched the infomercial on YouTube instead. But I was excited to see something about Ron Paul on real TV, so that's why I tuned in.

Bummed out in Iowa,

Zach

PS: Here's the YouTube of the informercial in question:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNWHmiGj-k
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wekzQrQfacg

The information was previously released on Youtube. You have nobody to blame but yourself for showing it to the wrong people.

[Spideynw]

I'm not sure about 99%, since I know there are some self-proclaimed Democrats who see abortion as not only a right, but a good idea. However, a large number do not support partial-birth abortion. Some are actually pro-life and others are like I said, against abortion but believe it should be legal regardless.

What I find most interesting is that people who are pro-choice can't give any good reason for why it should be legal, but have so many reasons why it shouldn't be illegal. The only people who really have a good reason are those who talk about it as a form of population control, a way of preventing mental retardation and criminality or something to that effect. However, those arguments are basically repackaged eugenics so it's kind of sad that those are the best arguments for abortion.

It seems the most popular argument is the idea that because some women would do it illegally, which most who do it now wouldn't, it must be made legal. Of course, the same logic applies to murder in general and theft, but people aren't trying to legalize them. Fact is, there is no logical, ethical, legal, or scientific argument that can justify abortion outside of the crazy eugenics-style arguments and that's only on a scientific and logical level. It certainly isn't ethical.

Wow, really, really good points. I especially like the one that we should not legalize it just because some people might do it, just like we should not legalize murder, just because some people might do it anyways.

And just as a sidenote, I was referring to the 99% that believe in abortion not 99% of the Democrats.

[slamhead]

It is a real easy argument to win. Just explain to them that Ron Paul being a scholar of the constitution believes that Roe vs. Wade is unconstitutional based on the fact that it interferes with state rights. Paul believes that it should be left up for the states to decide. As the President it is more important for him to protect all life and liberty.

[phree]

1. I think the infomercial and nearly all their TV ads (the Christmas one was okay) suck production values wise.
2. I hope that the choice of material used in the Iowa infomercial was well thought out and is successful, it seems a bit counter intuitive to use a speech covering topics that people say are less important than other ones the infomercial didn't cover

As to the abortion thing - it's simple, follow along.

Ron Paul's stance.
1. Life begins at conception
2. Abortion therefore is an issue of a crime (murder) against another person and unrelated to any privacy issues (can you murder your child in the privacy of your home? no, so same goes to can you murder your child in the privacy of your womb, no.)
3. Violent crimes against a person is not prosecuted on the federal level; ergo states would be responsible for setting the level of investigation, resources used in prosecuting, and terms of punishment. Some states would be more lenient than others, and some would simply turn a blind eye, effectively keeping abortion legal.

This is a smart post.

Unfortunately Dr. Paul's humanness causes him to get off message with abortion like he did on The View. I wish he wouldn't, but hey, he's not perfect, he's just the best candidate we've seen in a long long time.

[Naraku]

Wow, really, really good points. I especially like the one that we should not legalize it just because some people might do it, just like we should not legalize murder, just because some people might do it anyways.

Well the real problem is a lot of pro-choice individuals will try to argue about rape, incest, and so forth, but the vast majority of cases are really just people not practicing safe sex. Nothing more, nothing less.

For instance condoms, when used properly, have a 99% rate of success. Also, one that requires no chemicals or condoms or anything is simply avoid ovulation periods. When people use this method by simply not having sex around when the women is ovulating and use it effectively it also has a 99% chances of success. In other words, simply having sex at different times can have the same effectiveness as using a condom. If the two are used together you basically have a 1 in 10,000 chance of having a pregnancy.

Problem is, many people won't use either because they don't want to wait or they feel it makes things less enjoyable. Then, when they do, they don't take care to use those methods properly and so they end up getting pregnant.

Never mind abstinence is 100% effective. Whenever this is brought up people always bring up rape, but that's like 1% of all abortions and most of the time it's not because of the rape, but because of normal reasons like finances, rape was simply the cause of the pregnancy. Most women who get pregnant from rape want to have the child and enjoy having the child and it actually is a generally positive outcome of a negative experience.

The only argument of any worth is protecting the life of the mother and according to Ron Paul, who is an expert in this field, this is rarely necessary and through his career never was.

People who bother to look at the statistics and the state of mind would know the problem with unwanted pregnancies is not the pregnancy, but most often the individuals involved.


And just as a sidenote, I was referring to the 99% that believe in abortion not 99% of the Democrats.

Oh yes, but I still think that's a bit much. I think there are quite a few, for instance, who simply want to limit the amount of abortions, rather than make them illegal. I used to be of that view and I can respect that view more than people who are blatantly pro-choice. I can even respect the eugenics-style argument even if I think they're completely wrong since it's at least understandable.

However, to claim abortion is not wrong, is actually a civil right and a religious issue is just astounding and irreconcilable to me. It just doesn't make sense.

[phree]

Dr. Paul's supporters can't even agree about abortion and yet some people think it's wise to begin an ad with it...

[Akus]

I'm in Iowa right now visiting relatives over Christmas. Politics is crazy here. Every day, the political phone words words words.....

Here's the YouTube of the informercial in question:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQNWHmiGj-k
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wekzQrQfacg


404
Reason to be sad or otherwise dissatisfied not found.

[PledgeForPaul]

It is a real easy argument to win. Just explain to them that Ron Paul being a scholar of the constitution believes that Roe vs. Wade is unconstitutional based on the fact that it interferes with state rights. Paul believes that it should be left up for the states to decide. As the President it is more important for him to protect all life and liberty.

The same argument could be made about keeping slavery at the state level. You are making the core issue of what life is to an incorrect binary definition when you reduce the argument to "protecting life".

This thread is not making me lose faith in Ron Paul supporters so much as it is making me lose faith in America.

[PledgeForPaul]

However, to claim abortion is not wrong, is actually a civil right and a religious issue is just astounding and irreconcilable to me. It just doesn't make sense.

A religious issue is what the pro-life side requires to define life at conception. A scientific non-religious viewpoint would define life either at a point of significant neural activity or where roe vs wade currently defines it (when the fetus can live independent of the mother).

[nc4rp]

some people are incapable of comprehending the logic of Dr. Paul. Those are the same people who say "im a democrat, my daddy was a democrat, and my daddy's daddy was a democrat, and I'd vote democratic if it was MICKY MOUSE running for office."

- I have actually heard this, for real.

[literatim]

Dr. Paul's supporters can't even agree about abortion and yet some people think it's wise to begin an ad with it...

We mostly aren't Iowan, not alone Iowan Republicans.

[richk]

some people are incapable of comprehending the logic of Dr. Paul. Those are the same people who say "im a democrat, my daddy was a democrat, and my daddy's daddy was a democrat, and I'd vote democratic if it was MICKY MOUSE running for office."

- I have actually heard this, for real.

I have heard this on the Republican side, also. Hell, they cannot even admit they made a mistake in Iraq. (30 yr Republican, btw).

In fact, I have more liberal friends that like Paul than Republican friends. Go figure. Not hard if you think about it.

Quit trying to be divisive.

[literatim]

I have heard this on the Republican side, also. Hell, they cannot even admit they made a mistake in Iraq. (30 yr Republican, btw).

In fact, I have more liberal friends that like Paul than Republican friends. Go figure. Not hard if you think about it.

Quit trying to be divisive.

Ask them if they support Clinton going into Kosovo.

[adwads]

I'm sick of all of these posts saying that being pro-choice is not a valid position. 1/3 of people on this forum are pro-choice. Do you really want to drive away 1/3 of Dr. Paul's support?? All that we, as pro-choicers, are asking is that the informercial ACCURATELY state Dr. Paul's position, which is that he is PERSONALLY pro-life, but that each state should decide the issue for itself. The infomerical DOES NOT accurately state RP's position, hence the dislike for the informercial

[richk]

Ask them if they support Clinton going into Kosovo.

When did this forum become Rep vs. Dem? I thought we were all on the same side?

[adwads]

When did this forum become Rep vs. Dem? I thought we were all on the same side?

I know, we need to knock it off...Not everybody who is pro-choice is a liberal democrat. I'm a libertarian and I'm pro-choice. Everybody just deal with it.

[V4Vendetta]

That infomercial is not for Liberal's! It's targeted to the state of Iowa, which is conservative.

[adwads]

That infomercial is not for Liberal's! It's targeted to the state of Iowa, which is conservative.

RP shouldn't pander like other politicians do. He should state his positions fully and accurately no matter which group he is talking to.

[rs3515]

There have been several people on this thread spreading misinformation about the Iowa caucus. First, to be absolutely clear, the Iowa caucus is NOT an open caucus. It is closed. This means the individual must be registered with the appropriate party prior to participating.

They can register the night of the caucus, but the likelihood of someone switching from Democrat to Republican is much lower than someone switching from "no party" to Republican. That's why we've been focused on the no party voters for the Letter Writing Campaign.

As for the whole discussion on using Dr. Paul's pro-life position in the infomercial, it's absolutely the right way to go. People in Iowa want to know this. I'm sure some Iowans who have heard about Dr. Paul get the sense he sounds more like a Democrat (anti-war, focused on civil liberties, etc.). This knocks it out of the park right from the beginning ... he is a conservative and he follows Republican ideals. It is immediately going to make the viewer more receptive to hearing what's next.

[Naraku]

PledgeForPaul


This thread is not making me lose faith in Ron Paul supporters so much as it is making me lose faith in America.

Agreed. What kind of country are we living in when people think women shouldn't be allowed to kill their babies?


A religious issue is what the pro-life side requires to define life at conception. A scientific non-religious viewpoint would define life either at a point of significant neural activity or where roe vs wade currently defines it (when the fetus can live independent of the mother).

I'm not religious and I'm pro-life so where does your crackerjack logic apply to me?

Abortion is not a religious issue or a civil rights issue. It's a human rights issue. No legitimate scientist would say an organism is not truly alive until there's brain activity. It's simply not true. Trees don't have brains but they are undoubtedly alive and they don't grow any brains over the years, let alone a few months like an embryo.

It's laughable that anyone could possibly assert an embryo is not alive. What kind of junk science are you using?

richk


When did this forum become Rep vs. Dem? I thought we were all on the same side?

Just because we all support Ron Paul for President doesn't mean we all take the same positions and some people, myself included, are quite adamant about the whole not killing babies thing.

[adwads]

As for the whole discussion on using Dr. Paul's pro-life position in the infomercial, it's absolutely the right way to go. People in Iowa want to know this. I'm sure some Iowans who have heard about Dr. Paul get the sense he sounds more like a Democrat (anti-war, focused on civil liberties, etc.). This knocks it out of the park right from the beginning ... he is a conservative and he follows Republican ideals. It is immediately going to make the viewer more receptive to hearing what's next.

RP is risking losing all of his pro-choice support by not explaining that he would leave abortion up to the states

[adwads]

PledgeForPaul



Agreed. What kind of country are we living in when people think women shouldn't be allowed to kill their babies?



I'm not religious and I'm pro-life so where does your crackerjack logic apply to me?

Abortion is not a religious issue or a civil rights issue. It's a human rights issue. No legitimate scientist would say an organism is not truly alive until there's brain activity. It's simply not true. Trees don't have brains but they are undoubtedly alive and they don't grow any brains over the years, let alone a few months like an embryo.

It's laughable that anyone could possibly assert an embryo is not alive. What kind of junk science are you using?

richk



Just because we all support Ron Paul for President doesn't mean we all take the same positions and some people, myself included, are quite adamant about the whole not killing babies thing.

Let's NOT have a debate about abortion here--it would be unproductive. You're alienating all the pro-choice people on these forums by implying that they like to murder babies. The fact is that 1/3 of RP's supporters are pro-choice, so you have to learn to live with them.

[nullzero]

RP is risking losing all of his pro-choice support by not explaining that he would leave abortion up to the states

Dont think that will happen if he gets republican nomination.... He could just focus again more on the state rights on the issue. Rommey and the rest of the crew flip flop on everything and do 100X more micro targeting on issues then RP even did. If you want to win this corrupt game you got to do the same micro targeting... its the corrupt and broken political system in place that causes this. If all states had the nomination on the same day we would not have this problem.

[grizzums]

I'm just glad Dr. Paul is wise enough to understand that a divisive subject like this is best to be sorted out by the states.

I'm happy to support to candidacy of RP as I wouldn't even think about supporting the candidacy of some of this forums members.

[Naraku]

You're alienating all the pro-choice people on these forums by implying that they like to murder babies. The fact is that 1/3 of RP's supporters are pro-choice, so you have to learn to live with them.

They're not gonna stop supporting Ron Paul because of what some dude online with a username from an animé villain says about abortion. However, there's always a chance I could convince someone abortion should be illegal.

[LibertyEagle]

When did this forum become Rep vs. Dem? I thought we were all on the same side?

Exactly.

[richk]

They're not gonna stop supporting Ron Paul because of what some dude online with a username from an animé villain says about abortion. However, there's always a chance I could convince someone abortion should be illegal.

LOL. You never know, it's a pretty intense subject. And it was spreading into us vs. them territory, and we don't need that now. That's what the MSM and the 2 parties do, DIVIDE and CONQUER.

After Paul is president, I'm all for discussing divisive issues. I respect both sides of this issue, and I just don't think it's productive to discuss it, IMHO.

Merry xmas to everybody (if it applies to you :D)

[Lord Xar]

When did this forum become Rep vs. Dem? I thought we were all on the same side?

We are all on the same side.

BUT - that doesn't mean there are those who want to fracture us and make us less effective. Keep watchful eyes on posts that try to play us against each other. You will this now that Ron is rising... I am POSITIVE a few high volume posters here and many minumum to moderate number of posts from members - are in fact, paid opposition who will gradually and slowly start to pit us against each other... fighting "against" each other and thus creating sides..

The MOST obvious tactic those in power have is creating conflict where there isn't any... - thus sides MUST be taken...

If you see this, call it out and just inform the poster that we are ONE family here and despite our differences - we are here for Ron Paul.

[adwads]

We are all on the same side.

BUT - that doesn't mean there are those who want to fracture us and make us less effective. Keep watchful eyes on posts that try to play us against each other. You will this now that Ron is rising... I am POSITIVE a few high volume posters here and many minumum to moderate number of posts from members - are in fact, paid opposition who will gradually and slowly start to pit us against each other... fighting "against" each other and thus creating sides..

The MOST obvious tactic those in power have is creating conflict where there isn't any... - thus sides MUST be taken...

If you see this, call it out and just inform the poster that we are ONE family here and despite our differences - we are here for Ron Paul.

I agree that there are imposters, but we also must be careful not to use the word "troll" lightly.

And we must remember that there have been MANY contentious issues the grassroots has had to work through (e.g., bydlak, MLK day, etc.)...the informercial/abortion issue is the latest of many.

[ThePieSwindler]

This thread is still alive... figuers it would simply devolve into an abortion discussion.

[tanstaafl]

It is a real easy argument to win. Just explain to them that Ron Paul being a scholar of the constitution believes that Roe vs. Wade is unconstitutional based on the fact that it interferes with state rights. Paul believes that it should be left up for the states to decide. As the President it is more important for him to protect all life and liberty.

This is effectively the argument I use. When people ask me of his position on abortion, I say "He is an obstetrician who delivered over 4,000 babies and he is personally against abortion...." As I say this I WATCH the person I am talking to, if they look happy I LEAVE the issue there.

If they look unhappy or I otherwise feel I'm not closing the sale, I continue on with something like, "HOWEVER he is a strict Constitutionalist, which means he follows the Constitution regardless of personal preferences. Since the power to regulate abortion isn't a power given the Federal government in the Constitution, it is a State issue; and he is not running for a State government office.

Now, when I say this I am using what I have heard Dr. Paul say at various times. I am able to speak with conviction because, up until days such as today when it comes out that Dr. Paul is giving three different answers on the issue, I think I'm representing his position honestly and correctly.

If Dr. Paul wants to LOSE the election, he should keep doing what he is doing ... giving three different angles instead of sticking with the Constitutional angle and just letting it be.

Ron Paul could WIN California - not just at the primary level but at the election level - if he will just stick with the argument that he personally is against abortion but, under the Constitution, it is a State issue. If he keeps telling three different stories it is going to be brought out again, and again, and again during any general election and he will lose every single state which is not dominated by born again Christians.

We're going to have a war enough just trying to get rid of (a) military industrial complex or (b) IRS or (c) Federal Reserve. Accomplishing any one of those three would be one of the biggest accomplishments in US political history and will require a massive restructuring of the Congress and, absolutely, a major groundswell of unanimity from more than half the American People.

If Dr. Paul also wants to place outlawing abortion front and center, he is going to accomplish nothing. He will never get critical support. Further, if he continues to trot it out as a leading issue, instead of answering the question according to what he has said before...that he personally is against abortion but it is NONE of the President's business...then he hasn't got a CHANCE of being elected at all.

Personally, I really sit on the fence on this issue. I am not pro-life in the strident Bible thumping way - and I will not vote for someone who is...probably not even if it is Dr. Paul. On the other hand, I'm not pro-choice, either - although I'm of the opinion that some of the babies I've seen raised by crack Moms would have been better off aborted...and I've noticed how few of the "pro life" people have adopted crack babies.

Anyway, Dr. Paul is doing NOBODY but the opposition a favor by giving so many versions of his position that EVEN RON PAUL SUPPORTERS ARE ALL OVER THE BOARD ON WHAT, SPECIFICALLY, HE WOULD DO WITH THE ISSUE IF HE BECAME PRESIDENT.

THIS sort of utter confusion - this sort of babble of opinions on where he stands - is intolerable if we want to win. It's hard to believe he is making this sort of blunder - he is normally so well thought through and so consistent on seeing everything through the lens of the 10th Amendment.

[adwads]

THIS sort of utter confusion - this sort of babble of opinions on where he stands - is intolerable if we want to win. It's hard to believe he is making this sort of blunder - he is normally so well thought through and so consistent on seeing everything through the lens of the 10th Amendment.


Honestly, I have no proof, but my hunch is that his advisers are behind his dancing around on the abortion issue...We have seen time and time again that the official campaign is totally incompetent...the bigger it gets, the more incompetent it gets. RP should NOT be "microtargeting" his message to specific groups of voters--this is why we HATE all other politicians.

[reduen]

My family and I all loved the commercial! :)

[Naraku]

I would say definitely the campaign is partly trying to lead Paul around on issues to get the desired effect.


BUT - that doesn't mean there are those who want to fracture us and make us less effective. Keep watchful eyes on posts that try to play us against each other. You will this now that Ron is rising... I am POSITIVE a few high volume posters here and many minumum to moderate number of posts from members - are in fact, paid opposition who will gradually and slowly start to pit us against each other... fighting "against" each other and thus creating sides..

Noooooooo. You caught me, I'm really a Giulianibot. You've foiled my dastardly plans! :mad:

Honestly, people should stop being paranoid. I don't think anyone here is secretly undercover working for the opposition. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. For one, none of the other campaigns are smart enough to do it. :p

[tanstaafl]

...Honestly, people should stop being paranoid. I don't think anyone here is secretly undercover working for the opposition. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. For one, none of the other campaigns are smart enough to do it. :p

If you aren't simply joking now, then you ARE wrong. At least one poster has identified himself as working for Huckabee's campaign. My guess is there are dozens of posters here who are actually opposed to Ron Paul and doubtless hundreds of lurkers. And the number will certainly grow as Paul advances.

You probably are joking, but we all ought to be aware of the kinds of stunts that people such as Rove are known to have successfully pulled off in the past. And there are other exploits, such as the Plame scandal, which actually cross over into felonious behavior which we should expect as well.

[Naraku]

Eh, I don't buy it, but you believe what you will. I for one don't care.

[jeff_from_VA]

I agree with Ron Paul on all issues, including abortion. I for one am very glad he makes it clear that murdering children is wrong.

I find it funny if someone wants the kid, and you kill her, you get charged with not one, but 2 murders. All at the same time allowing people to murder their own children, because they are not convenient to them at that time.

I am all for a states rights aproach, as 95% of the states will outlaw murder. Only the liberal super centers like NY and Cali will continue to kill babies as fast as they can.

[adwads]

I agree with Ron Paul on all issues, including abortion. I for one am very glad he makes it clear that murdering children is wrong.

I find it funny if someone wants the kid, and you kill her, you get charged with not one, but 2 murders. All at the same time allowing people to murder their own children, because they are not convenient to them at that time.

I am all for a states rights aproach, as 95% of the states will outlaw murder. Only the liberal super centers like NY and Cali will continue to kill babies as fast as they can.

This isn't helpful here. If your going to talk like this at all, it should be in hot topics.

[jeff_from_VA]

This isn't helpful here. If your going to talk like this at all, it should be in hot topics.


How is it not helpful? Because I agree with the Ad Ron Paul himself put out, and the position that Ron Paul himself takes?

[adwads]

How is it not helpful? Because I agree with the Ad Ron Paul himself put out, and the position that Ron Paul himself takes?

Because this thread is not supposed to be debating abortion, but the merits of the infomercial.

And because the language you use is ridiculous and inflammatory. Of course nobody supports "murdering children.".

[jenkoolkat]

I think most dont understand Ron Pauls position on abortion and maybe I dont exactly but here is what I think he means. He will leave it up to the states and does not want the federal govt to pay for some poor persons abortion and if you want to live in a state where abortion is legal then move there. If not then if you need one drive there.

Its like other issues. There are some states that dont sell liquor on Sundays, I remeber going on vacation to a southern beach and we went out to dinner and couldnt get a bottle of wine.

A lot of people move to CA for freedoms like that sort of. In CA they dispense Medical Marijuana but not in other states so if that is important to you then move there. They outlaw public smoking so move there if you dont like smoking.

Nevada casinos love smokers - move there to smoke..

New Hampshire doesnt accept the federal seatbelt law.

Thats simplified but I hope you get what I mean

[jeff_from_VA]

Because this thread is not supposed to be debating abortion, but the merits of the infomercial.

And because the language you use is ridiculous and inflammatory. Of course nobody supports "murdering children.".

Well how should I put it to make everyone feel okay about it? I mean after all abortion does what exactly if not killing a child?

[PledgeForPaul]

Well how should I put it to make everyone feel okay about it? I mean after all abortion does what exactly if not killing a child?

are you a troll?

[PgmrPaul]

I wish we could go back and stick with Dr. Paul's standard position on abortion, which as I understand it is that he opposes it personally, believes it is not a federal issue under the constitution, and wants Roe v. Wade repealed so that each state can deal with it.

This topic hit nerves because it involves one side calling the other 'baby killers' and getting the return accusation of 'enslavers of women.' I think both sides have a point at the extremes. The made-up statistic I heard is that few Americans agree with either absolutist position on abortion. Supposedly almost no one believes that it is okay to kill an unborn baby when it is developed enough to live outside the womb. On the other hand, almost no one believes that a woman should be executed for murder if she misses breakfast and that causes the two-celled embryo in her womb to spontaneously abort on any given day. There is also the libertarian realization that everyone owns their own body, and that as a practical matter the government cannot usually prevent or even detect miscarriages or abortions. If the government attempts to do so it will surely fail at anything except further establishing the police state.

Part of being an adult is realizing that sometimes you have to agree to disagree. In this case maybe we can argue this issue in our individual states after we elect Ron Paul and Iraqi babies stop getting killed in our names. I hope no one will get upset and turn their back on Ron Paul over this argument on this forum. It is not his fault, and we are all needed to achieve the objectives that brought us together in the first place.

[Johncjackson]

The bottom line is ROn Paul panders just like everyone else. He just happens to be right 90% of the time.

[elahewu]

Even though the infomercial is targeted to Iowa, how many people are going to see it on youtube?

Leading with controversial topics is not smart strategy. Start with the topics that pulls everyone in like smaller government. Then end with the divisive stuff like abortion. What happened to the states issue theme?

The production quality sucked. The footage of him at the podium seemed like he was shouting too much and had an authoritarian (in a bad way) feeling.

[LibertyEagle]

The bottom line is ROn Paul panders just like everyone else. He just happens to be right 90% of the time.

He doesn't pander. He says what he believes and lets the chips fall where they may.

[tmg19103]

Isn't it about time this thread goes to Hot Topics?

As we have read in this thread, Ron Paul's platform is simple - he is personally pro-life. As a public official he correctly believes Roe v. Wade is unconstitutional and that the states should decide on this issue. As president Ron paul would have no say on what do to about abortion if it is turned over to the states, as he correctly believes it should be.

I'm pro-choice and I accept this part of Ron Paul's platform. It is what it is. If you can't get over that fact, then tough. Ron Paul is not going to pander and lie to people just to make a some people on this forum happy. If you can't get over this issue, maybe Ron Paul is not your candidate.

It is a fact that RP will promote some parts of his platfrom over others depending on the state he stumping. Pro-life plays in Iowa. It is being downplayed in N.H. It will be played up in S.C. and downplayed in Nevada. That's poltics and it is not pandering - it is just stressing different parts fo your platform based on the audience. No lies. No promises that are not part of the platform.

It is up to the voter to fully educate him/herself to the issues of candidate. Fact is the vast majority of Americans don't educate themselves on a candidate beyond the sound bites they hear.

Abortion is a wedge is that is WAY down the list of priorities of American voters. The economy, Iraq War, terrorism, immigration, healthcare, education and taxes all come before abortion for the vast majority of Americans.

Yes, for some Americans abortion is THE issue and with others gun rights is THE issue. Tough. Get over it. It is what it is. Ron Paul's platfrom is what it is. If you can't get over Ron Paul's platform on abortion, go vote for a Democrat. If you can't get over the fact the Ron Paul will play up certain parts of his platfrom depending on the state, go find a candidate who is not - and you won't find such a candidate.

This whole thread is just overblown with emotion that is running around in circles like a dog chasing its tail and accomplishing nothing.

[NewEnd]

Yes, for some Americans abortion is THE issue and with others gun rights is THE issue. Tough. Get over it. It is what it is. Ron Paul's platfrom is what it is. If you can't get over Ron Paul's platform on abortion, go vote for a Democrat. If you can't get over the fact the Ron Paul will play up certain parts of his platfrom depending on the state, go find a candidate who is not - and you won't find such a candidate.

This whole thread is just overblown with emotion that is running around in circles like a dog chasing its tail and accomplishing nothing.

Most of us know the Ron Paul position on Abortion, we just do not feel the infomercial presents it well.

And your post was overblown with emotion.

[Naraku]

This topic hit nerves because it involves one side calling the other 'baby killers' and getting the return accusation of 'enslavers of women.'

Except only one side makes any sense. Personally I would be able to vote for someone who was pro-choice, but not because I'm not passionate about abortion, but because I generally view life at all stages sacred and, unfortunately, most people don't have a political stance that respects life at every stage.

Fact is, women aren't enslaved by having consensual unprotected sex with another man. However, having an abortion is killing a human life, no matter how you want to slice the issue an embryo is obviously a life and obviously human. Anyone claiming science says otherwise is giving you junk science.

I suppose embryo-killer or fetus-killer could work, but it's not the same thing. Of course, I never said anyone here was a "baby-killer" I only said that being pro-choice basically means supporting the murder of children.

I think if anyone took a step and simply considered whether an embryo was a separate life from the mother and whether an embryo was human by design, if not in substance, then most would realize abortion is killing a human life and doing so often without reason.

I think it's good for Ron Paul to say that and I don't particularly mind if he doesn't get votes from the pro-choice crowd, though he probably will in any case. I only care if he wins.

[NewEnd]

Except only one side makes any sense.

both sides make sense.

[mkiv808]

I think a big thorn in the side of this campaign is the lousy video production. It's too bad they didn't hire a young, forward-thinking advertising agency to do it.

I used to work at a small place locally here that did AMAZING and very clever work. Very modern, but always effective and to the point. They would've done the whole campaign very inexpensively and had great production values. And that's how the new breed of agencies work: doing what used to cost millions for a fraction of the cost. It just takes ingenuity and creativity.

I'm currently an art director at a larger marketing agency, so I'd like to think I at least somewhat know what I'm talking about. ;)

Lousy videos coming out of this campaign...

[RichardC]

Except only one side makes any sense.

Like the other poster said, both sides make sense. I'm actually pro choice, to an extent, but even I concede that this issue is too divisive and has no clear moral imperative. We should all leave it at that.

[tmg19103]

Most of us know the Ron Paul position on Abortion, we just do not feel the infomercial presents it well.

And your post was overblown with emotion.

Actually felt unemotional and logical writing it. As for the infomercial, RP jumped from 4% to 10% in Iowa for the first week it ran. Could be a coincidence, but I'll take that kind of coincidence.

And yes, this thread is a bore - and I say that without emotion.

[hocaltar]

This isn't the time or place for a discussion of abortion. I personally am pro-choice and your comments just make me feel like arguing with you...the fact is, Ron Paul is personally pro-life, but he would leave the abortion issue up to the states...However, the informercial DOES NOT make that clear. THe informercial PRETENDS that RP will enact pro-life legislation at the federal level.

Abolishment of Roe Vs. Wade does not mean he will enact prolife legislation. It means that the supreme court will not have jurisdiction over our lives anymore.
At first I read into this too, then I thought about it for a second, and it all became clear. :)

[hocaltar]

Even though the infomercial is targeted to Iowa, how many people are going to see it on youtube?

Leading with controversial topics is not smart strategy. Start with the topics that pulls everyone in like smaller government. Then end with the divisive stuff like abortion. What happened to the states issue theme?

The production quality sucked. The footage of him at the podium seemed like he was shouting too much and had an authoritarian (in a bad way) feeling.

Negative! Look up the rule of primacy and recency. Abortion is the most important topic to Evangelical Christians. Putting that right out front ensures he starts off on the right foot with them, it's a great attention getter and served its purpose very well. I found this very well thought out.

[dawnbt]

Cool it. How could showing the infomercial to his family possibly cost Ron Paul the election? Are you spending every second of every day writing letters or making phone calls to Iowa?

I second that!!

[zcopley]

Here are some other observations from Cedar Rapids...

Phone-banking is way overdone. I think it's a waste of time here. This house is getting maybe 20 political calls per day (no exaggeration). My impression is that folks are annoyed by the phone calls, and tune them out completely. The relatives I'm staying with don't even know who is calling because they don't answer anything that's "out of area" or "toll free" just because of the political phone calls. I think Hilary may have an advantage over the other candidates simply because the Caller ID says "Call from Hillary Clinton" while the other candidates are totally anonymous. My fam is going to caucus bigtime, but they will not make their decision based on any phone calls. Anecdotally, phone-banking is a loser.

Driving around, I've seen only ONE Ron Paul sign.... shit! Come on Cedar Rapids! In the snow, yard signs really stand out. I wish there were more Ron Paul signs. Obama and Hilary are everywhere in this town, with a sprinkling of Romney. Maybe this is just a heavily democratic city, I dunno... or maybe the message isn't getting here.

I agree with the people who said I shouldn't have put the Ron Paul infomercial on here without vetting it first on YouTube... although I have to tell you, I wasn't putting it on to convert my family to Ron Paul, I mostly just wanted to see it myself.

I also see the point that the infomercial was targeted at the Republicans here. However, maybe I am naive about Republicans. In my mind the critical issues, whether one is a Democrat or Republican, should be Freedom, Liberty and The Constitution -- not some wedge issue like abortion. I was assuming that to win over Republicans Ron Paul would just send the same message to them that he sent to me...

Hey, but what do I know about politics?

Zach

[hawkeyenick]

The deadline to change registration from Democrat to Republican has past in Iowa right? And the caucus is closed? If that's the case then is there a point to try to convert Democrats? My guess is that the ad is targetted squarely towards converting Republicans.

you can change the day-of in iowa as of january 1st