Protesting the demolition of 4500 housing units in NO (tasers & pepper spray used) -

[ghemminger]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2505402&mesg_id=2505402

[CountryboyRonPaul]

After living in New Orleans for 2 years, I'm not surprised at all by this.

Honestly, the police were almost definately justified in using force.

The people living in these housing projects are the worst side-effect of the welfare state. The neighborhoods they are talking about destroying are the ones that you don't drive through to avoid getting robbed at gun-point. Many of the welfare recipients living here don't have jobs, preffering to live off of a taxpayer paycheck and pass the time smokin blunts and drinkin 40s.

The housing units were built by the government, and it would be cheaper for the Govt. to rebuild them from scratch than rennovate them, neither of which should happen at the expense of the American taxpayer.

The people living in these housing projects are dependant on the government, and are not property owners, therefore they really have no say as to whether the government destroys it's own property to make way for new construction.

Call me what you will, but the government does not have the right to take money from hard working people and squander it building welfare communities.

[joelfarm]

I do not want to be seen as seen playing 'devils advocate' on this issue, and understand exactly what you say, CountryboyRonPaul, about the conditions and
way of life in New Orleans. I do not live there, do not have all the information needed to understand the issue in full. Yes, I am ignorant about this particular issue.
What I DO know, is that the city council, for whatever reason, went COMPLETLY against the demands of it's citizens. As is becoming more and more common, elected officials are making decessions that actual HURT the citizens they are suppose to represent. From kicking people off their land to build a new mega-store, to imposing new nuisance laws to generate revenue, to arbitrary enforcement of laws, depending on how much power one has, they a microcosm of fedgov and the rule by hammer that is imposed on us now.
The violence that was displayed in NO yesterday is the end result when elected officials do not listen to those who put them in office, and are ignored.

[ghemminger]

Wow - you guys both have different views on this thing don't you? What would Ron Paul say?

[sakrelije]

Both Jeff and Orleans parishes are cesspools of rampant corruption. Though there is nothing shocking about this, and I doubt any of us support public housing, there is a genuinely strong, though largely socialist, grassroots presence in New Orleans. The police are brutal and feared by all - though open opposition to them is extremely common and widespread; I certainly don't think many citizens regard them as anything more than thugs.
It used to just be enough to get tourists as drunk as possible and then arrest them for public intox to line the city's coffers; now the state's housing (which is uninhabitable) is being taken away and the citizens are finally waking up. I feel bad now for leaving two months ago; I really thought things weren't going to change.

[werdd]

Destroying homes for the "common good" as they are saying in new orleans, is preposterous. Reguardless if they are the product of a welfare state.

[sakrelije]

What's even more preposterous is that citizens were violently shut out of a city council meeting. Those who chose to reelect "our mayor" Ray Nagin and all the ol' Louisiana cronies in the city council are finally realizin it ain't all good. Louisiana is addicted to federal subsidies, whether in the north from Barksdale AFB or in the south and interior from farming subsidies and good ol fashioned welfare in all its many forms.
Unfortunately, I fear most of my former fellow citizens will not wake up and realize it was their reliance on government that got them in this position in the first place, but will merely seek a new leader full of even emptier promises. sigh. Huey's legacy lives on and on.

[2orb]

There stand to be some pretty big government contracts awarded for both the demolition and rebuilding of the housing. Of course there would be contracts awarded for remodel of the current ones too. Regardless of the solution we will continue to pay.

[CountryboyRonPaul]

Please don't misinterpret me as supporting anything the New Orleans city council does.

As far as I'm concerned New Orleans is the most corrupt city in America. The money skimmed from public housing contracts are no exception.

However, when citizens are trying to break down the bars to get into a city council meeting, non-lethal force is probably going to be used.

That doesn't mean I support the NOPD, they are just as corrupt as the city council. I've seen them very unnecessarily shoot and kill an unarmed man, I told my lawyer about it and he told me it would be better for me if I didn't mention it to anybody.



Many citizens were against demolishing the public housing, but you have to remember, this housing is government subsidized housing. Many of the ones who are against the demolition subscribe to the entitlement socialist mentality.

That being said, I HIGHLY doubt the council decided to demolish the housing because entitlement programs are an unconstitutional distribution of wealth, or any of the reasons I have listed.

But, the reality remains the same, the houses are un-inhabitable in their current state, and with the mold growing in these homes, if someone does decide to live there legally or not, it is a lawsuit against the city waiting to happen. There was a long period that the city gave residents to go in and get whatever they wanted from the housing, the destruction of these projects has been talked about and implied since immediately after the storm.



it used to just be enough to get tourists as drunk as possible and then arrest them for public intox to line the city's coffers; now the state's housing (which is uninhabitable) is being taken away and the citizens are finally waking up. I feel bad now for leaving two months ago; I really thought things weren't going to change.

The citizens may be waking up, but I believe if they are waking up solely for the purpose of protecting government subsidies, they are setting themselves up for more government abuse.

You can bet Ron Paul is against all the federal subsidies that have caused these problems and allowed people like Nagin, Morial, Jefferson & Thomas to skim money and flood the system with the corruption that turned New Orleans into the cesspool that we all know it is.

I agree Orleans govt. needs MAJOR change, but I believe the needed change would cause outrage with many of the same people that are outraged by the council's decision to demolish the housing projects.

If anyone has ever seen the movie Idiocracy, the scene where the citizens riot because they started using water on the plants instead of "Brawndo" comes to mind.

[jenninlouisiana]

Listen up, people. Im from New Orleans.

The city council was 100% right in this decision.

All of the white people in the video are paid activists. yes, PAID. Probably half the black people are too.

EVERYONE in New Orleans thinks this is the right decision.

The projects are filty drug ridden sub human slums.

There was a post on this yesterday where I described the gun fire that started every night at dark and ended every morning at dawn.

Basically, if you don't live in New Orleans than you have no opinion on this, got it?

N.O. district 2 (new orleans proper) can't get any Ron Paul delegates and if there were ANY ron paul supports there with signs, they likely killed any hope of getting Ron Paul delegates from New Orleans.

This is NOT a fight to fight.

This is giving the poor people a better chance at breaking the generational poverty.

[conner_condor]

What would of happened if people went back with pepper spray and tazers?
Would that be considered assault on their part. The people standing there peacefully who wasn't involved in pulling on the gate got sprayed also. Could they bring up assault charges. But I would of liked to see people have sprays and tazers and returned the fire. It can't be a crime if they use it now can they. They didn't try to attack the officers,they was just opening the gate.

[jenninlouisiana]

The gate was locked with a chain at the bottom. They were trying to break in. This was AFTER a fight had broken out INSIDE the city council chambers. The building was evacuated. This gate thing was AFTER the evacuation.

[sakrelije]

I completely agree with you, CountryBoy, I think most of my disgust just stems from the inability of most people in the city to actually seek real change. They pay great lip service to it, but never, and I am afraid will never, follow through. A really nice guy by the name of Joe Alfone ran in whatever district it is that encompasses the area of Magazine that intersects Jefferson, but of course, he wanted to enact real change - the man is a confirmed Nader junkie, and he isn't much for ending entitlement programs, but using them in more creative and interesting ways. Of course, no one voted for him, even though he did spend a day offering lemonade and bloody maries from his front porch in an attempt to campaign. Now, sir, that is grassroots...
My point, if you were wondering, is that no, most Louisianans in general will never want change, whether it's the sensible Ron Paul variety or the greener shade of red from Green Party loyalists. Most people not from Louisiana do not generally understand this, though, and tend to think it is only the rampant corruption holding "recovery" back, when it is, in fact, also the people giving their consent to be swindled. The Louisiana braindrain is pervasive.
So again. sigh.

[sakrelije]

The gate was locked with a chain at the bottom. They were trying to break in. This was AFTER a fight had broken out INSIDE the city council chambers. The building was evacuated. This gate thing was AFTER the evacuation.

That, actually, I was not aware of -- I'm guilty of judging merely from first hand reports from a few people who left the detail of it being after the fight inside breaking out out of the email. BUT I am also thinking that they weren't aware of the fight inside and so the locking of the gate was seen as a huge slap in the face to the protestors, regardless of the perceived justification of their cause.
It still seems to be the council reaping what it sowed. Really, the desparation of these people is one of the greatest examples of how subsidized housing creates a massive (and often times racially defined) group of disaffected people who are left at a great disadvantage due to the very fact these projects were created in the first place.

[CountryboyRonPaul]

A really nice guy by the name of Joe Alfone ran in whatever district it is that encompasses the area of Magazine that intersects Jefferson, but of course, he wanted to enact real change - the man is a confirmed Nader junkie, and he isn't much for ending entitlement programs, but using them in more creative and interesting ways. Of course, no one voted for him, even though he did spend a day offering lemonade and bloody maries from his front porch in an attempt to campaign. Now, sir, that is grassroots...


Free bloody marys? Sounds like my kind of guy :D

But seriously it is a shame that people, especially in this state it seems, are content to just keep their eyes closed to the realities of what needs to happen, and instead stay consumed in the mentality of, "Well what do I get if I vote for you?"

[Melissa]

Listen up, people. Im from New Orleans.

The city council was 100% right in this decision.

All of the white people in the video are paid activists. yes, PAID. Probably half the black people are too.

EVERYONE in New Orleans thinks this is the right decision.

The projects are filty drug ridden sub human slums.

There was a post on this yesterday where I described the gun fire that started every night at dark and ended every morning at dawn.

Basically, if you don't live in New Orleans than you have no opinion on this, got it?

N.O. district 2 (new orleans proper) can't get any Ron Paul delegates and if there were ANY ron paul supports there with signs, they likely killed any hope of getting Ron Paul delegates from New Orleans.

This is NOT a fight to fight.

This is giving the poor people a better chance at breaking the generational poverty.

Just curious are you saying that there is no way Dr. Paul can win New Orleans or did you just mean 1 distirict

[jenninlouisiana]

The way the delegates are divided, the only real chance he has of winning Louisiana is if we get *all* the districts Ron Paul delegates. Since Ed (district 2) only has 7 delegates, that is the minority of delegates for his district. (New Orleans).

We can, and will, deliver Louisiana to Ron Paul, but ONLY if we get all the delegates from the districts.

[CountryboyRonPaul]

Just curious are you saying that there is no way Dr. Paul can win New Orleans or did you just mean 1 distirict

Well, if Jenn didn't mean Orleans Parish, then I'm willing to say there is no chance ANY Republican presidential contender can win Orleans Parish in a general election.

[sakrelije]

Listen up, people. Im from New Orleans.

[...]

All of the white people in the video are paid activists. yes, PAID. Probably half the black people are too.
[...]
This is giving the poor people a better chance at breaking the generational poverty.

I completely agree with all of your statements, and wanted to highlight your closer because I think it's absolutely true. This thread is definitely to the point where we all agree and is now dominated by three people from La.

I am just curious who was paying these people - the formerly unknown militant arm of the Green Project? OK, bad attempt at humor, but seriously... Who?
Hmmm....

[CountryboyRonPaul]

I am just curious who was paying these people - the formerly unknown militant arm of the Green Project? OK, bad attempt at humor, but seriously... Who?
Hmmm....

Well, I did some research it seems an organization called "Stop the Demolition Coalition" organized the protest.

http://www.peopleshurricane.org/
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3273227.ece
http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2007/12/11649.php

So if people are being paid, I would start my investigation with them.

[FenceWalker]

EVERYONE in New Orleans thinks this is the right decision.
Every single person, huh? :rolleyes:

Basically, if you don't live in New Orleans than you have no opinion on this, got it?
No, sorry. Don't "got it".

So I guess after the hurricane, when my children, my wife and I donated clothes, toys and drinking water, etc...And I personally (along with other church members) drove it down there to help out, we should have just kept our opinion that folks could use the help to ourselves?

Gee, I thought Dr. Paul was all about it being up to the people to help each other out. I guess not, according to you. If we don't live there, we don't get an opinion. :(

Everybody gets an opinion. Whether you think they should or not. Got that?

I had heard about the professional activists seeding the crowd (some estimates were up to 70%). My local paper today quoted somebody as saying that tempers were flaring partly because some of the people outside the gates thought the city council had allowed a large number of pro demolition folks into the actual meeting while keeping out those that were opposed.

My opinion is that having heard from the HUD reps (and the local New Orleans housing department) that vouchers were going to be given to ensure that nobody would be homeless and the new buildings would be a mix of low income, middle income and high income housing, that the demolition (again, in my opinion) would end up being a good thing.

Get rid of the damaged buildings as well as the purely low income housing may put a dent in some of the problems that seem to plague these types of housing "projects". ;)