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View Full Version : Help needed. trying to convert someone.




akalucas
12-20-2007, 08:10 AM
I have almost been able to convert this girl I know but last night I guess she read all Paul's statements at ronpaul2008.com and sent me an email. I have written a response below but I want you guys to critique it before i send it off. Let me know if I make false assumption concerning Paul's beliefs or factual errors. thank you so much. Keep in mind she immigrated from El Salvador when she was 14. Not sure if she came legally but she is a citizen now and is an occupational therapist. age 26. Also I wrote this at 4am and im sure there are grammar errors and run on sentences. Feel free to correct, but i don't think she's the type that will care much.


this is what she sent:

Hi Luis,

question marks mean....WHAT???? You agree to all this.


"I also recently opposed H.R. 2640, which would allow government-appointed psychiatrists to ban U.S. veterans experiencing even mild forms of Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome from ever owning a gun"????????

"The government should never have the power to require immunizations or vaccinations."??????

"It is fundamentally unfair to give benefits to anyone who has not paid into the system. The Social Security for Americans Only Act (H.R. 190) ends the drain on Social Security caused by illegal aliens seeking the fruits of your labor."?????

No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.

No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.????



MY RESPONSE:

"I also recently opposed H.R. 2640, which would allow GOVERNMENT-APPOINTED PSYCHIATRIST to ban U.S. veterans experiencing even MILD FORMS of Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome from ever owning a gun”


-------( I PUT IN CAPS THE TEXTS ABOVE AND BELOW WHICH I THINK YOU SHOULD KEEP IN MIND)
It says above he is against ALLOWING GOVERNMENT-APPOINTED PSYCHIATRIST making this determination; The key word being GOVERNMENT. Government shouldn’t have the right to take away the rights of “mentally disturbed” people because you give them the power to define it. For instance, what if the future government is really evil and doesn’t want a certain group of people opposing or interfering. All they have to do is have their GOVERNMENT APPOINTED PSYCHIATRIST say they are insane and bingo they can take your guns away because they say you’re crazy. Notice he also doesn’t approve because the HR bill includes MILD forms of PTSS. It’s not fair for someone that has a mild form of PTSS to lose the right to protect himself, his family and property, especially since the mild form doesn’t impact the person’s judgment in a way that endangers the people around him or to himself. This bill was written by extreme anti 2nd amendment senator and congressman: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) and, Sen. Patrick Leahy. They are very vocal about taking away the right to bear arms from the people. They are trying to take a legite reason (to take away guns from people with really bad PTSS determined by private psychiatrist) and expand it to less legit reasons like mild forms of PTSS, so little by little they can take away the rights of the people. These HR bills are deceptive, they sound good at first but you have to read them carefully cause the government is always inclined to overstep their limited authority given by the constitution
This is the 2nd amendment: A well regulated militia, being the best security of a free state, the right of the people to KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

“The government should never have the power to require immunizations or vaccinations.”


The government should never require to put something in your body!!!period. Remember Ili we are used to our government being nice and trusting them but history shows that governments (holy roman empire, russia, usa (slavery)...etc) always have periods of being bad. We should have FREEDOM TO CHOOSE not the government to choose for us. If I choose to not get vaccinated for measles or my child then I'm stupid (my opinion)....but that’s my choice and I will deal with the consequences. That way in the future when they want to put something in my body or MY child’s body that I don’t approve for LEGIT reason I have the right to say thanks, but no thanks.


As for the illegal immigration part....
I say this as someone who has relatives who have come here illegally...
Illegal is Illegal! When someone does something illegal they take a chance that they won’t get caught and take the risk of consequences. But remember people mostly do illegal things because it’s beneficial for them if they don’t get caught, so to them it’s worth the chance of getting caught. For example a person stealing money from their work because they need the money to pay their house bill or else they have to get an apartment or worse. Just because she is doing it for good reasons doesn’t justify it because they’re stealing (thou shall not steal). But it doesn’t end there because the consequences get spread out. First off, the boss they’re stealing from now has less income because they keep stealing from him every week to keep paying their bill; she’s now affecting him and his family in a bad way. Since she’s stealing her boss can’t afford to pay people over time. sooo now let’s say another worker is no longer working overtime cause the boss can no longer afford. Lets just say the other person that was working overtime was also about to lose a house but instead of stealing she decided to do it the hard way and work over time to afford it. But now because the other person stole instead of working over time or getting another job now she isn’t able to afford the house and she loses it.

This is an analogy of what going on but it’s actually worse..why?...let’s go on with the example. Let’s say now the boss finds out who is stealing but he can’t do anything about it cause the government won’t enforce the laws and maybe the government won’t let him fire her! So now you have two pissed of people at the person who is stealing...the boss and the other worker trying to get money the right way and they are frustrated cause there's nothing really they can do about it. The law not being enforced also cause more people to steal. Now people have to accept a lower standard of living cause somebody is cheating the system.

This kind of what is kind of happening in the USA. In order for this government to give citizens welfare, Medicare...etc, they have to tax the citizens. When Illegal’s come here most of them don’t pay taxes because they are doing it under the table. So the problem there is that they are getting the social programs benefits without paying taxes. What happens now is that the government now has to tax more and the hospitals have to charge more in order to afford the burden put on them caused by illegal’s, which is not even enough because we are still in debt big time! But like that example I had above the consequences don’t end there. Now because the people are being taxed more and the price of health care went up the American citizens that could barely afford it now can’t afford to pay for their own insurance. Guess what happens. Now they have to be in Medicare and other social programs too because of the consequences of illegal being here. So now there is even more burden on the government to pay cause now more people are in the social programs. Again government raises taxes because of this and hospitals either have to raise prices again or risk closing. One hospital here in Merced closed because of this reason.

This is why USA needs to enforce the border to control the rate of people allowed into USA so we can have a stable economy. If the USA economy collapses, which looks pretty close of doing so right now, then everyone will suffer! Why do you think most countries are third world countries or 2nd? It’s because it's hard to have a country with a great economy. There has to be rules and regulations that have to be followed or it falls apart. We are now 9 trillion dollars in debt and will need like 60 trillion dollars to cover social security and other programs. When you include all the taxes you pay (federal tax, state tax, gasoline tax..etc) it come out to be like 50% of the money you make in the year goes to the governmnet!!! Thats 6 months out of the year you work to pay the government and it’s not enough! It's got to the point, Ili, that we can no longer not only pay for illegal’s health care and stuff but we can no longer afford it for US citizens soon. So when Paul says he doesn’t want benefits for Illegals he is not saying it because he is mean, but because he wants to save the US economy. Plus he believes not even US citizens should have government benefits because it makes us rely more on government and less in ourselves and charity. Its not right to take money from someone to give to someone else forcefully but that what federal income tax does. The fruits of your labor should be yours to keep and if you want to help the needy or give to charity it should be because you want to.


Ron Paul doesn’t believe we should round all 12-20 million and just dump them in their country of origin but that we should stop giving them benefits, not give them citizenship (unless they go back and reenter legally), and not allow birth right citizenship for people that are illegal. This will do a couple of things. One people won’t come here as much illegally because they know they won’t get benefits and their children won’t get free healthcare, free schooling and citizenship. Also people that are here will stop getting benefits and with enforced laws will mostly go back to their country cause they can’t find work. This sounds mean but they are here ILLEGALLY and our economy CANT sustain it. What Ron Paul wants is our economy to be strong again and once our economy is very strong way more jobs can be created. He has no problem if our economy is strong for people to cross the border to work here in the USA. He thinks sometimes the Illegal’s are the scapegoat because our economy is so weak because of all the benefits we give to US citizens. He believes if we stop most of these social programs more people can be allowed to come in to work legally.

You have to look at the source of the problem. Do you really think (for example) Mexicans want to leave their beautiful culture, good food and family to come to the USA? I don’t think so. They come because their economy is bad in Mexico and the leaders are corrupt. Do you think the corrupt leaders like 12-20 million poor coming here to USA? YES! They like this because the less people complaining in Mexico the more likely they will stay in power and keep stealing the people’s money. Can you imagine if the 12-20 million illegal immigrants that are here were instead in Mexico. The poor people’s vote would be much more substantial and they would be able to elect good leaders. If not, 12-20 million people would revolt against their country and take back their beautiful country. But no, instead of million upon million marching in protest in Mexico to make much needed changes in their country the illegal’s are marching here for free healthcare or citizenship. I think Paul plan will help Mexicans (my people) focus on their country to make it a better place. Remember that USA is the place it is cause people revolted and hundreds of thousands of people died to make this the country the way it is. Mexicans need to do the same for their country. Change doesn’t come easy and as long as Mexicans keep ignoring their country’s problem, crossing the border and us giving them incentive to come here the problem will never go away. Keep in mind also the USA is not anti immigrant, they let A LOT of people in. All they ask is for people to do is apply and wait their turn.

hellah10
12-20-2007, 08:18 AM
if your response doesn't do the trick... then god help her

apropos
12-20-2007, 08:22 AM
I would just highlight the slippery slope of limiting gun ownership a little more. Denying people their right to bear arms is a violation of the second amendment. It doesn't matter if it 'sounds good' or 'makes sense'...you need to amend the Constitution if you want to alter these rights. You can't just abridge these rights or pretend they aren't in the Constitution (i.e. the ACLU and the 2nd Amendment) without due process.

If we can start abridging gun ownership without an amendment, why can't we start abridging freedom of speech, religion, assembly, etc.? Slippery slope.