PDA

View Full Version : POLL: Ron Paul supporters religion.....




Pages : [1] 2

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 06:29 PM
Which faith are you?

microsect
12-19-2007, 06:30 PM
I’m Christian.

jamesmadison
12-19-2007, 06:30 PM
Buddhist

tsetsefly
12-19-2007, 06:31 PM
atheist...

skolwulf
12-19-2007, 06:31 PM
Atheist

integrity
12-19-2007, 06:33 PM
agnostic

NorwegianLibertarian
12-19-2007, 06:33 PM
Atheist

Ben Elliott
12-19-2007, 06:35 PM
Sheesh, there are quite a few atheists.

<--- atheist.

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 06:35 PM
Sheesh, there are quite a few atheists.

<--- atheist.

Yeah.......Atheist & Non-religious is the fastest growing segment of America.

ChristopherBearkat
12-19-2007, 06:36 PM
Southern Baptist

Austin
12-19-2007, 06:37 PM
Non-denominational Christian.

skolwulf
12-19-2007, 06:37 PM
Damn, mormons aren't even listed as chrisitians. I might be an atheist, but isn't this a slam against Joseph Smith's flock?

cicatrice
12-19-2007, 06:37 PM
I guess eclectic, particularly drawing from Eastern religions.

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 06:39 PM
Damn, mormons aren't even listed as chrisitians. I might be an atheist, but isn't this a slam against Joseph Smith's flock?

I think their views fall outside most Christian beliefs......

They accept Christian writings, but so do Muslims.....

moostraks
12-19-2007, 06:39 PM
Anabaptist...funny how liberty crosses all denominations and belief systems:)

Pimpin Turtle Dot Com
12-19-2007, 06:39 PM
Buddhist and Hindu should be two separate choices... they are completely different... please change!

Pimpin Turtle Dot Com
12-19-2007, 06:40 PM
I am a Southern Baptist Buddhist... Buddhism is not a religion, it is a way of life... a concept...

thumbto
12-19-2007, 06:40 PM
"other" - something intelligent is behind all this.

As far as I can tell, it's something analogous to light... it allows things to be seen but in itself cannot be seen.

or something like that.

Gaius1981
12-19-2007, 06:41 PM
Atheist.

Matthew Zak
12-19-2007, 06:42 PM
Atheist and agnostic are two completely different things. I cannot vote.

JAALIUS
12-19-2007, 06:42 PM
Im Muslim

Hook
12-19-2007, 06:42 PM
I am a Pastafarian and believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
:D

Austin
12-19-2007, 06:43 PM
Atheist and agnostic are two completely different things. I cannot vote.
Which are you?

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 06:43 PM
Atheist and agnostic are two completely different things. I cannot vote.

There aren't enough spots to cover everyone.......Please select "other" if you don't feel comfortable with the choices.

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 06:44 PM
Why put atheist with agnostic.....atheist is closer to theist than to agnostic.

I'm pretty much agnostic btw

Austin
12-19-2007, 06:44 PM
I am a Pastafarian and belive in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
:D

I was waiting for that! :D

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 06:44 PM
Notice how Ron's message brings alot of different people together. That is the key!!

thumbto
12-19-2007, 06:46 PM
Why put atheist with agnostic.....atheist is closer to theist than to agnostic.



+1

trey4sports
12-19-2007, 06:46 PM
Why put atheist with agnostic.....atheist is closer to theist than to agnostic.

I'm pretty much agnostic btw



no, no its not. ive been doing a lot of research into religion lately. Atheist is a strong belief in NO GOD. whereas agnostic is unsure whether there is a god or not.
im atheist BTW

Hook
12-19-2007, 06:47 PM
I was waiting for that! :D

Yes, and I am personally offended they didn't include my religion as a choice!
:p

Fyretrohl
12-19-2007, 06:47 PM
Mormon which IS a Christian faith. But, there are differences in the Christian faiths and their political beliefs, so, I am okay with it the way it was.

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 06:48 PM
Notice how Ron's message brings alot of different people together. That is the key!!

I would have to agree that it is the most diverse group there is!

Can you imagine what Fuckabee's supporters religion poll would look like?

Alex Libman
12-19-2007, 06:48 PM
Jewish ethnically, Atheist religiously.

(Voted for latter.)

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 06:48 PM
no, no its not. ive been doing a lot of research into religion lately. Atheist is a strong belief in NO GOD. whereas agnostic is unsure whether there is a god or not.
im atheist BTW

Atheism is a belief system based on no evidence, as is theism.

Agnosticism is the true unbiased scientific position.

skolwulf
12-19-2007, 06:51 PM
no, no its not. ive been doing a lot of research into religion lately. Atheist is a strong belief in NO GOD. whereas agnostic is unsure whether there is a god or not.
im atheist BTW

Actually I would describe agnostics as the belief that one can not have knowledge of such matters (god/man gods/no god/etc). However, I think that agnostic is a hedge strategy, basically they are often atheist w/o the balls to say so.

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 06:51 PM
Atheist is closer to theist than it is to agnostic? Give me a break. They're exact opposites.

A small semantics lesson: atheism and theism have to do with belief (in atheism's case, a lack thereof)

Whilst agnosticism and small 'g' gnosticism has to do with knowledge.

I consider myself an agnostic atheist and see no contradiction there.

Driftar
12-19-2007, 06:52 PM
I would have to agree that it is the most diverse group there is!


Deist more or less.

Yes, i absolutely love the diversity in Paul's campaign... People are attracted to Dr. Pauls character and policies- and anyone of good sense can appreciate that. He doesnt need to wrap himself in a flag or a cross ;)

CelestialRender
12-19-2007, 06:52 PM
Roman pagan...it's usually easier to just say "atheist" though.

I like how Mormons aren't included as Christians in the poll lol.

Hook
12-19-2007, 06:53 PM
Actually I would describe agnostics as the belief that one can not have knowledge of such matters (god/man gods/no god/etc). However, I think that agnostic is a hedge strategy, basically they are often atheist w/o the balls to say so.

Agnostic literally translated means "I don't know". Since none of us really do know for certain, that is what people should use, IMHO.

CelestialRender
12-19-2007, 06:53 PM
Atheism is a belief system based on no evidence, as is theism.

Agnosticism is the true unbiased scientific position.

This thread didn't ask people to explain why their beliefs are correct. Just to identify said beliefs.

ronpaulfollower999
12-19-2007, 06:53 PM
I'm Christian but I don't like to associate myself with religions such as Baptist, Mormon, Lutheran, etc....

Jesus didn't come to start a religion, He came to start a relationship with you.

Exponent
12-19-2007, 06:54 PM
I'm atheist, agnostic, and non-religious all at once, but I chose atheist/agnostic, since I think that would best represent what people would expect. I certainly hold my beliefs on this subject to be very important, and perhaps this is opposite to what was intended by the non-religious option, but I still feel quite non-religious.

As for people who think that atheism and agnosticism are separate things that cannot apply to a person simultaneously, I try to treat my interpretation of these words as so: As an atheist, I do not believe in the existence of a deity, and live my life in accordance with this belief. And as an agnostic, I do not claim to have definite knowledge about any deity's existence or nature. I have what I consider to be an informed belief, but I certainly won't claim it to be proven or infallible.

Driftar
12-19-2007, 06:54 PM
Actually I would describe agnostics as the belief that one can not have knowledge of such matters (god/man gods/no god/etc). However, I think that agnostic is a hedge strategy, basically they are often atheist w/o the balls to say so.

Well, i think its valid, even honest, to say you're unsure. I wish more theists would say they have a bit of agnostic in them.

aravoth
12-19-2007, 06:54 PM
All of you are wrong. :D

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 06:54 PM
Atheist is closer to theist than it is to agnostic? Give me a break. They're exact opposites.

A small semantics lesson: atheism and theism have to do with belief (in atheism's case, a lack thereof)

Whilst agnosticism and small 'g' gnosticism has to do with knowledge.

I consider myself an agnostic atheist and see no contradiction there.

atheism is NOT a LACK of belief.....it is a BELIEF that there is nothing there

A lack of belief would more accurately describe an agnostic.


Atheism and theism are not opposites in that they are both beliefs.

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 06:54 PM
Atheism is not a belief in itself. Stripped to its fundamental meaning, it is the absence of theism, i.e. the absence of belief in "god."

barbz
12-19-2007, 06:54 PM
Buddhist

hellah10
12-19-2007, 06:54 PM
muslim

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 06:56 PM
Actually I would describe agnostics as the belief that one can not have knowledge of such matters (god/man gods/no god/etc). However, I think that agnostic is a hedge strategy, basically they are often atheist w/o the balls to say so.

Not in my case sir, I don't pretend to know what is out there in the infinite universe.

Vaughn
12-19-2007, 06:56 PM
ELCA Lutheran

mmink15
12-19-2007, 06:57 PM
first time as an atheist I've been a part of the majority

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 06:57 PM
A child who has no knowledge of the concept of "god" does not believe god doesn't exist, it simply lacks the belief that it does exist. That is atheism.

I am aware of the concept of "god," but I too do not say "god" does not exist (as I don't know that), but simply lack belief that it does.

Driftar
12-19-2007, 06:57 PM
It's just like political partys and labels. The media likes "quick" answers and ways to categorize us. Heaven forbid someone actually have a complicated set of personal believes. Thats what i hate about Ron Paul being called "Libertarian" ... or even Constitutionalist. He's a compassionate constitutionalist old school conservative republican... ;)

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 06:58 PM
first time as an atheist I've been a part of the majority

I think many if not most of Libertarians are.

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 06:58 PM
This thread didn't ask people to explain why their beliefs are correct. Just to identify said beliefs.

No belief can be verified correct or incorrect my friend. I would never try and say that what I believe is correct. Agnosticism is only correct within the bounds of the scientific method.

Vaughn
12-19-2007, 06:59 PM
There's something in every atheist, itching to believe, and something in every believer, itching to doubt. --Mignon McLaughlin

RonPaulwillWin
12-19-2007, 07:00 PM
I am a Pastafarian and believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
:D

Needs to be included :)

ronpaulfollower999
12-19-2007, 07:00 PM
You never know 100% until you die unfortunately.

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 07:00 PM
This is a really interesting poll. You should leave it going for a while....it would have been better to separate agnostics and atheists but no matter

skolwulf
12-19-2007, 07:01 PM
No belief can be verified correct or incorrect my friend. I would never try and say that what I believe is correct. It is only correct within the bounds of the scientific method.

Unfortunately many people currently believe their religion is correct and are willing to do about anything to prove they are right.

trey4sports
12-19-2007, 07:01 PM
A child who has no knowledge of the concept of "god" does not believe god doesn't exist, it simply lacks the belief that it does exist. That is atheism.

I am aware of the concept of "god," but I too do not say "god" does not exist (as I don't know that), but simply lack belief that it does.


you have atheism and agnosticism confused. Atheism is belief there is NO GOD. and it is a belief based on the knowledge available to us. Agnosticism is the lack of a belief or unsure. so a child would be more along the lines of agnostic, he doesnt refute the idea of a god, but merely doesnt have a belief

thumbto
12-19-2007, 07:01 PM
No belief can be verified correct or incorrect my friend. I would never try and say that what I believe is correct. It is only correct within the bounds of the scientific method.

This is a big problem! We have to believe we can at least approximate truth through abstraction! Absolute Relativism / Nihilism is the root of all our problems.

smartguy911
12-19-2007, 07:01 PM
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9569/wtftq3.gif...sooo many Atheist/Agnostic. i was expecting Christianity to dominate

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 07:01 PM
You never know 100% until you die unfortunately.
Even then you might not know :p

Who says you get total knowledge of the issue when you're dead? ;)

Hook
12-19-2007, 07:01 PM
I think many if not most of Libertarians are.

The Libertarian Party is where the conservatives go that haven't bought into the whole religion thing.

lasenorita
12-19-2007, 07:02 PM
I think Atheist and Agnostic should have been separated. There's a big difference between the two. Aside from that, it's an interesting poll. :)

trey4sports
12-19-2007, 07:02 PM
Unfortunately many people currently believe their religion is correct and are willing to do about anything to prove they are right.


yes, religious extremism is one of the greatest threats we face today. ever read the god delusion anyone?

Exponent
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
You never know 100% until you die unfortunately.
Heh, you might not even know then, given your views on epistemological skepticism. :)

This thread moves fast. I'm slow.

silverhandorder
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
Greek Orthodox

Paulitical Correctness
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
I don't understand why atheism and agnosticism are always lumped together.

Hook
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
You never know 100% until you die unfortunately.

Unless you cease to exist because that is the grand plan of the real religion.
Maybe we are a simulation and when you die, all your resources are freed. You exist only at the pleasure of the Architect.

drexhex
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
atheist.

aspiringconstitutionalist
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
You forgot "Deist." I guess I have to go with Other. :(

StateofTrance
12-19-2007, 07:03 PM
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9569/wtftq3.gif...sooo many Atheist/Agnostic. i was expecting Christianity to dominate

Why you got problem with that?

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 07:04 PM
you have atheism and agnosticism confused. Atheism is belief there is NO GOD. and it is a belief based on the knowledge available to us. Agnosticism is the lack of a belief or unsure. so a child would be more along the lines of agnostic, he doesnt refute the idea of a god, but merely doesnt have a belief
No I don't. Tell me I'm wrong when I say theism is "belief in god." The prefix a means an absence of. I am an atheist because I don't believe in god. That doesn't not mean I know for a fact "god" doesn't exist. That does not even mean I believe I know for a fact "god" doesn't exist. Atheism is the abence in theistic belief. That is all.

Mark
12-19-2007, 07:04 PM
Which faith are you?

Christian - Melchizedekian Denomination

brumans
12-19-2007, 07:04 PM
The western mindset of atheism and godlessness is a disease to the world.

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 07:05 PM
I don't understand why atheism and agnosticism is always lumped together.

Because in the grand scheme of things, they are closer together than the others....

I am an agnostic with the presumption that there is no god. I guess that puts me in between Atheist & Agnostic.

Ben Elliott
12-19-2007, 07:05 PM
The western mindset of atheism and godlessness is a disease to the world.


I know. Look how horrible Sweden is.

Vaughn
12-19-2007, 07:06 PM
The Libertarian Party is where the conservatives go that haven't bought into the whole religion thing.

I just think libertarians have realized that when you mix religion and politics you get politics. We need to keep politics separate from certain other fields, such as religion. This is part of a saying of Jesus in the Gospels; “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” Funny how someone 2,000 years ago could see this so clearly.

skolwulf
12-19-2007, 07:06 PM
The western mindset of atheism and godlessness is a disease to the world.

Can you elaborate on this statement?

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 07:06 PM
you have atheism and agnosticism confused. Atheism is belief there is NO GOD. and it is a belief based on the knowledge available to us.

I agree that atheism is a belief that there is no god, but i disagree it is based on knowledge....Belief that a higher being DOES NOT exist cannot have evidence supporting it, nor can a belief that a higher being DOES exist.

Hook
12-19-2007, 07:06 PM
The western mindset of atheism and godlessness is a disease to the world.

Burn the witch!!!! :D

Wyurm
12-19-2007, 07:06 PM
Actually I would describe agnostics as the belief that one can not have knowledge of such matters (god/man gods/no god/etc). However, I think that agnostic is a hedge strategy, basically they are often atheist w/o the balls to say so.

Thats a rather judgemental statement. Agnostics are actually critical thinkers. Its not a hedge, rather its a belief (edit: not a belief) that you can't know whether or not there is a god at this time, however, rather than assume there is no god, agnostics choose the understanding that there may be a god. Its also called keeping an open mind.

An agnostic might say that they have no beliefs, only ideas. Its not that they "have no balls" rather, they feel that since you can't know if there is or isn't a god, then they won't assume.

Its amazing how many different beliefs there are, and is a very interesting subject.

On the lighter side, here is an over-simplification of the various religions. (note: does use the word "S***" alot) http://home.online.no/~warnckew/jokes/religious-philosophies.html

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 07:07 PM
I know. Look how horrible Sweden is.

:D

.....and how free and tolerant Saudi Arabia is! (nearly 100% theist)

StateofTrance
12-19-2007, 07:08 PM
The western mindset of atheism and godlessness is a disease to the world.

The real disease is someone who is closed-minded with no brain.

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 07:08 PM
The western mindset of atheism and godlessness is a disease to the world.

Complete crap. What do you think of agnostics?

lasenorita
12-19-2007, 07:09 PM
The western mindset of atheism and godlessness is a disease to the world.

Mike Huckabee, is that you? :p

As for Sweden being an atheistic (?) and godless nation, according to the CIA World Factbook:


Lutheran 87%, other (includes Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist) 13%

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 07:09 PM
Thats a rather judgemental statement. Agnostics are actually critical thinkers. Its not a hedge, rather its a belief....[/url]

Great post but agnosticism is not a belief. It is the exact opposite.

Spirit of '76
12-19-2007, 07:11 PM
I know. Look how horrible Sweden is.

Sweden had an official state church (a type of Lutheranism) until the year 2000.

szczebrzeszyn
12-19-2007, 07:11 PM
Atheist was a really cool band :)

Vaughn
12-19-2007, 07:12 PM
There should be less talk; a preaching point is not a meeting point. What do you do then? Take a broom and clean someone's house. That says enough. - Mother Teresa

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 07:12 PM
I am an atheist.

The only belief I have concerning the concept of god is that I have no concrete knowledge or awareness of it. I do not presume anything beyond that.

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 07:12 PM
Mike Huckabee Supporter poll:

Protestant (True): 99.81%
Catholic (Mary-worshipers): 0.17%
Jewish (Traitors): 0.01%
Mormon (Cultists): 0.01%
Muslim (Devils): 0.00%
Atheists (Devils): 0.00%

smartguy911
12-19-2007, 07:13 PM
Why you got problem with that?

No I don't have a problem but i keep hearing this is a Christian country and I was expecting the same here. We put religion before everything and talk about it all the time and judge people.

Edward
12-19-2007, 07:13 PM
I haven't bothered to read this thread to see if anyone pointed this out. Here are a list of similar RPF polls...

What Religion/Beliefs do you have? (12/19/2007)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=60623

What religion best describes you? (8/9/2007)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=11549&page=2

What religious beliefs best describe you? (9/22/2007)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=19569

What label most accurately describes your belief of the etiology of our universe? (10/5/2007)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22949

Which [religion/age] best describes you? [CLOSED]
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=19456&highlight=Poll

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 07:15 PM
I am an atheist.

The only belief I have concerning the concept of god is that I have no concrete knowledge or awareness of it. I do not presume anything beyond that.

You have just described an agnostic. Atheist is a belief that NO GOD exists.

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 07:15 PM
Atheist was a really cool band :)
Ineed it was. I'm going to start playing Piece Of Time right now\m/

Spirit of '76
12-19-2007, 07:16 PM
By the way, I hope everyone realizes that Protestant and Evangelical are not synonymous.

Luther
12-19-2007, 07:17 PM
Why a separate option for atheist and non-religious?

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 07:17 PM
You have just described an agnostic. Atheist is a belief that NO GOD exists.
I concede I'm an agnostic. I also know for a fact I'm atheist, because I'm certainly not a theist. The two, atheism and agnoticism, aren't mutually exclusive (neither are they mutually inclusive either).

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 07:18 PM
I concede I'm an agnostic. I also know for a fact I'm atheist, because I'm certainly not a theist. The two, atheism and agnoticism, aren't mutually exclusive (neither are they mutually inclusive either).

Interesting point. I would argue that they are mutually exclusive.

szczebrzeszyn
12-19-2007, 07:18 PM
Ineed it was. I'm going to start playing Piece Of Time right now\m/
LOL. I'll join you with Unquestionable Presence then, my fav of them!

SPmachina033
12-19-2007, 07:20 PM
Christian. Non-Denominational...

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 07:21 PM
A very simple definiton of atheist: an atheist is a person who is not a theist.

Do atheists believe there is no god. Yes, some of them do. Do all of them? No. That's the only point I'm trying to make. If you disagee, please provide me with a linguistic argument that proves atheists can only believe there is no god, and that it is impossible for atheism to simply be a lack of theistic belief.

Vaughn
12-19-2007, 07:23 PM
What about Cosmology? The belief that the The universes creation hints at the possibility of a sentient force "call it god". Think, the universe began as a dense ball of matter, at most a couple of inches in diameter. From there it exploded, IN UNDER ONE NANO-SECOND, to something like 2,000 light years across. Why would that happen? It is an interesting question. All I do know is that none of us know the answer.

Hook
12-19-2007, 07:23 PM
Actually, I'm starting to lean towards Zoroastrism :D

StudentForPaul08
12-19-2007, 07:25 PM
Atheist/non-religious.

the_oco
12-19-2007, 07:32 PM
What? No Pastafarianisim?

szczebrzeszyn
12-19-2007, 07:36 PM
Do atheists believe there is no god. Yes, some of them do. Do all of them? No. That's the only point I'm trying to make.
Good point. I wanted to add something, but it's a dead end, so I'll stop right here.

SPmachina033
12-19-2007, 07:37 PM
What about Cosmology? The belief that the The universes creation hints at the possibility of a sentient force "call it god". Think, the universe began as a dense ball of matter, at most a couple of inches in diameter. From there it exploded, IN UNDER ONE NANO-SECOND, to something like 2,000 light years across. Why would that happen? It is an interesting question. All I do know is that none of us know the answer.

That is one reason I do believe in God. Thank you for posting that!

SeanEdwards
12-19-2007, 07:38 PM
Freethinkers FTW.

P.S. It's not a faith. It's the absence of faith.

Edward
12-19-2007, 07:38 PM
What? No Pastafarianisim?You have to go to this poll if you want to choose that one: What label most accurately describes your belief of the etiology of our universe? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22949)

Shink
12-19-2007, 07:38 PM
Atheist who acknowledges the possibility that agnosticism has its merits.;)

nbhadja
12-19-2007, 07:44 PM
I am an atheist, don't believe in god.
Atheism may literally mean without religion, but almost all people use it as not believing in god.

BillyDkid
12-19-2007, 07:44 PM
For the record I am an atheist - please don't hate me. I will fight and die (though I would prefer not to) for your right to believe whatever you want. However, it is interesting how many of us are atheists and avidly supporting Ron Paul - an avowed Christian. I wonder how many Christians would be willing to support and atheist candidate. My personal belief is that atheist are the most hated group in this country. I can't imagine an avowed atheist ever being elected to high office. People would prefer even a Scientologist or a believer in any religion - however whacky - over any atheist. Frankly, in that respect I think we are somewhat persecuted. The one thing that brings us all together is our belief in liberty.

skolwulf
12-19-2007, 07:45 PM
What? No Pastafarianisim?

I have to admit that I own a "touched by his noodley appendage" FSM t shirt.

Arek
12-19-2007, 07:50 PM
I sorta will say I have a strange belief in religion. I believe Jesus was the messiah, but I believe his word has been perverted from the original meaning. I'll say I believe in some of the "Gnostic" gospels such as the Gospel of Truth and the Gospel of Thomas. So I guess in a way I have my own Judeao-Christian belief. Then again somedays I just consider myself a Deist

robskicks
12-19-2007, 07:51 PM
christian

Luther
12-19-2007, 07:52 PM
Interesting point. I would argue that they are mutually exclusive.

You would be wrong. It is impossible for one to be an atheist but not an agnostic. In fact, I would argue that every person, theist or atheist, is an agnostic. Agnosticism means without knowledge. There is no evidence of the existence of a deity. One cannot have knowledge of that which does not exist. Therefore all persons, from Richard Dawkins to Benedict XVI, are agnostic about the existence of God. Theism and atheism, on the other hand, describe belief, not knowledge. It is possible for one to believe a proposition for which there is no evidence, as do theists. It is also possible to disbelieve a proposition in the absence of evidence, as do atheists. Atheism and theism are mutually exclusive. Agnosticism and atheism, and agnosticism and theism, are not.

Aus4RP
12-19-2007, 07:52 PM
Agnostic.

I'm strongly against Religion and their modern day promoting of egalitarian beliefs and their anti-gun, and leniency towards criminals in the name of "Forgiveness".

justatrey
12-19-2007, 07:55 PM
Hopefully its already been said but:

Atheism and agnosticism are COMPLETELY different!

This is very simplified, but in general the difference is this:

Atheism - Affirms the nonexistence of gods.
Agnosticism - Belief that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of gods is impossible.

I'm agnostic.

hawkeyenick
12-19-2007, 07:57 PM
Atheist, former mormon priesthood holder

chandlerLBT
12-19-2007, 07:57 PM
Agnostic. I think he put a few together so that as many beliefs as possible could be polled.

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 07:58 PM
You would be wrong. It is impossible for one to be an atheist but not an agnostic. In fact, I would argue that every person, theist or atheist, is an agnostic. Agnosticism means without knowledge. There is no evidence of the existence of a deity. One cannot have knowledge of that which does not exist. Therefore all persons, from Richard Dawkins to Benedict XVI, are agnostic about the existence of God. Theism and atheism, on the other hand, describe belief, not knowledge. It is possible for one to believe a proposition for which there is no evidence, as do theists. It is also possible to disbelieve a proposition in the absence of evidence, as do atheists. Atheism and theism are mutually exclusive. Agnosticism and atheism, and agnosticism and theism, are not.
Although deep down I would agree with you that everyone is an agnostic, I think it's too presumptuous to say it as fact. Are you omniscient?

hawkeyenick
12-19-2007, 07:59 PM
You would be wrong. It is impossible for one to be an atheist but not an agnostic. In fact, I would argue that every person, theist or atheist, is an agnostic. Agnosticism means without knowledge. There is no evidence of the existence of a deity. One cannot have knowledge of that which does not exist. Therefore all persons, from Richard Dawkins to Benedict XVI, are agnostic about the existence of God. Theism and atheism, on the other hand, describe belief, not knowledge. It is possible for one to believe a proposition for which there is no evidence, as do theists. It is also possible to disbelieve a proposition in the absence of evidence, as do atheists. Atheism and theism are mutually exclusive. Agnosticism and atheism, and agnosticism and theism, are not.

You're an agnostic toward unicorns and leprechauns as well. Atheism just goes a step further on the end of the person by simply affirming that the odds are so low that they might as well be 0.

Luther
12-19-2007, 07:59 PM
A very simple definiton of atheist: an atheist is a person who is not a theist.

Do atheists believe there is no god. Yes, some of them do. Do all of them? No. That's the only point I'm trying to make. If you disagee, please provide me with a linguistic argument that proves atheists can only believe there is no god, and that it is impossible for atheism to simply be a lack of theistic belief.

Is not theism defined as belief in the existence of a god (monotheism) or gods (polytheism)? If one believes there is a god, he would be a theist, necessarily. Atheism and theism are mutually exclusive.

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 08:00 PM
Hopefully its already been said but:

Atheism and agnosticism are COMPLETELY different!

This is very simplified, but in general the difference is this:

Atheism - Affirms the nonexistence of gods.
Agnosticism - Belief that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of gods is impossible.

I'm agnostic.
Atheism does not affirm anything. Atheism is the absence of theistic belief.

Luther
12-19-2007, 08:00 PM
You're an agnostic toward unicorns and leprechauns as well. Atheism just goes a step further on the end of the person by simply affirming that the odds are so low that they might as well be 0.

Correct.

Luther
12-19-2007, 08:01 PM
Hopefully its already been said but:

Atheism and agnosticism are COMPLETELY different!

This is very simplified, but in general the difference is this:

Atheism - Affirms the nonexistence of gods.
Agnosticism - Belief that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of gods is impossible.

I'm agnostic.

But are you a theist or an atheist?

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 08:03 PM
Is not theism defined as belief in the existence of a god (monotheism) or gods (polytheism)? If one believes there is a god, he would be a theist, necessarily. Atheism and theism are mutually exclusive.
To answer your first question, monotheism and polytheism are still theism. It doesn't matter how many gods or what god in particular you believe in. Theism is theism.

As for your last statement, yes atheism and theism are mutually exclusive. You can't be a theist yet an atheist at the same time. That would be a contradiction in terms.

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 08:04 PM
You would be wrong. It is impossible for one to be an atheist but not an agnostic. In fact, I would argue that every person, theist or atheist, is an agnostic. Agnosticism means without knowledge. There is no evidence of the existence of a deity. One cannot have knowledge of that which does not exist. Therefore all persons, from Richard Dawkins to Benedict XVI, are agnostic about the existence of God. Theism and atheism, on the other hand, describe belief, not knowledge. It is possible for one to believe a proposition for which there is no evidence, as do theists. It is also possible to disbelieve a proposition in the absence of evidence, as do atheists. Atheism and theism are mutually exclusive. Agnosticism and atheism, and agnosticism and theism, are not.

I agree with what you are saying but I was defining an agnostic as someone who openly acknowledges and accepts this. So I guess it depends on the definition.

Joe3113
12-19-2007, 08:06 PM
Atheism does not affirm anything. Atheism is the absence of theistic belief.

You are describing agnosticism again I reckon. Atheism is the PRESENCE of a atheistic belief. If you are an atheist you have a belief.

Paulitician
12-19-2007, 08:11 PM
But what about that child I mentioned early who has no awareness of the concept of god? Does he say that he believes god doesn't exist? No! He just doesn't believe.

As I said before, atheism can manifest itself as the refusal of theism, but it is nevertheless fundamentally the absence of theistic belief.

austin356
12-19-2007, 08:12 PM
Evangelical Christian.

nbhadja
12-19-2007, 08:12 PM
You are describing agnosticism again I reckon. Atheism is the PRESENCE of a atheistic belief. If you are an atheist you have a belief.

He said atheism is the absence of an theist belief, which is true.

Luther
12-19-2007, 08:14 PM
Although deep down I would agree with you that everyone is an agnostic, I think it's too presumptuous to say it as fact. Are you omniscient?

Technically, I am agnostic about the existence of evidence of the existence of God. I will concede some person may have discovered evidence of the existence of God and kept it secret from the rest of humanity, but I think that is very unlikely, sufficiently so for me to disbelieve.


"I think therefore I am."

That's all I truly know. Every other belief requires at least some degree of presumption.

Luther
12-19-2007, 08:20 PM
I agree with what you are saying but I was defining an agnostic as someone who openly acknowledges and accepts this. So I guess it depends on the definition.

Whether or not a person openly acknowledges and accepts his agnosticism about the existence of God defines (in part) a person's understanding of philosophy, but does not determine whether or not the person is actually agnostic about the subject. A person can refuse to openly acknowledge and accept the fact that he is a human, but that doesn't make it untrue.

lbadragan
12-19-2007, 08:21 PM
Deist.

No love for the faith of Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine?

Mandrik
12-19-2007, 08:21 PM
Greek Orthodox Christian

RPIdeaMan08
12-19-2007, 08:25 PM
libertarian baptist

mokkan88
12-19-2007, 08:27 PM
Non-denominational Christian.

InRonWeTrust
12-19-2007, 08:29 PM
Atheists are in the house.

atthegates
12-19-2007, 08:33 PM
Hindu right here

kaleidoscope eyes
12-19-2007, 08:34 PM
I consider myself more of a spiritual mutt, but you didn't have that as a choice, so Other. ;)

fortilite
12-19-2007, 08:35 PM
Why does agnostic and atheist always get grouped together?

Hurricane Bruiser
12-19-2007, 08:36 PM
"As to the book called the bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions and a history of bad times and bad men." [Thomas Paine, writing to Andrew Dean August 15, 1806]


You know, I don't mind a discussion on religion or the lack of it, but having this as your signature is not very wise. Lots of people view these forums and it is almost as if you want to run off any Christians that visit this forum. Let's focus on what we are trying to do which is to elect Ron Paul.

N13
12-19-2007, 08:39 PM
Why does agnostic and atheist always get grouped together?

I agree, that's like having a presidential poll and putting Huckabee and Romney together as one of the choices.

RonPaulVolunteer
12-19-2007, 08:49 PM
I'm confused... An atheist is someone who claims there is no God. Yes? Or am I wrong? This is a logical fallacy. Unless you were all knowing, which would sort of make YOU God, then you could not possibly rule out the existence of a supreme being. An agnostic I can perfectly understand, someone who claims they just don't know, but making an absolute claim that there is no God. This scares me more than religious nuts do.

Am I missing something here?

.

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 08:50 PM
You know, I don't mind a discussion on religion or the lack of it, but having this as your signature is not very wise. Lots of people view these forums and it is almost as if you want to run off any Christians that visit this forum. Let's focus on what we are trying to do which is to elect Ron Paul.

It is important to get across the idea that this nation was NOT founded as a Christian nation. The United States is the first Secular nation in the history of the World, and our Constitution makes no reference to god.

It is important for people to know this. Our founding fathers were not Huckabee type Bible beaters that the Fundies has conned everyone into thinking they were.

Omphfullas Zamboni
12-19-2007, 08:58 PM
Damn, mormons aren't even listed as chrisitians. I might be an atheist, but isn't this a slam against Joseph Smith's flock?

A little bit. Category "Christian (Mormon)" would have been ideal but I'll let it slide. Thanks for sticking up for the team, Mr. Skolwulf. :) At any rate, I know we all support America here, so it's all good.

Sincerely yours,
Omphfullas Zamboni

Vaughn
12-19-2007, 09:00 PM
It is important to get across the idea that this nation was NOT founded as a Christian nation. The United States is the first Secular nation in the history of the World, and our Constitution makes no reference to god.

It is important for people to know this. Our founding fathers were not Huckabee type Bible beaters that the Fundies has conned everyone into thinking they were.

The founders were Deists right? I know Jefferson believed in the philosophy of Christ, but not the Old Testament. So the whole, “this is a Christian nation, no this is a secular nation” argument is kind of ridiculous IMO. We are neither Secular nor Religious. We are a nation founded on the idea that the rights of man are absolute and endowed to us by the natural creator (whatever you owe that to be).
Thus, the founders struck a perfect balance between the two and avoided the pitfall that the French fell into by having the rights of man derive from the state (cause we all know how trustworthy the state is). So instead our founders put them somewhere where government hopefully couldn't touch them.

Enzo
12-19-2007, 09:03 PM
That's unfair to lump atheists and agnostics together

jasonoliver
12-19-2007, 09:07 PM
The founders were Deists right? I know Jefferson believed in the philosophy of Christ, but not the Old Testament. So the whole, “this is a Christian nation, no this is a secular nation” argument is kind of ridiculous IMO. We are neither Secular nor Religious. We are a nation founded on the idea that the rights of man are absolute and endowed to us by the natural creator (whatever you owe that to be).
Thus, the founders struck a perfect balance between the two and avoided the pitfall that the French fell into by having the rights of man derive from the state (cause we all know how trustworthy the state is). So instead our founders put them somewhere where government hopefully couldn't touch them.

"This is a secular country" is a political statement. Secular simply means Government shouldn't be in the business of Religion.

You can either have Secular (Neutral) or preference to a particular religion. I'll take secular.

QuadForce
12-19-2007, 09:10 PM
Atheist

angrydragon
12-19-2007, 09:10 PM
Non-practicing Buddhist.

pcosmar
12-19-2007, 09:12 PM
Christian (generic)

Vaughn
12-19-2007, 09:12 PM
"This is a secular country" is a political statement. Secular simply means Government shouldn't be in the business of Religion.

You can either have Secular (Neutral) or preference to a particular religion. I'll take secular.
For that definition of secularism I would agree.

coboman
12-19-2007, 09:17 PM
PASTAFARIAN!!

And very offended by the fact that my religion was not prominently listed in the poll.
The flying spaghetti monster is the only true god, creator of the universe.

Luther
12-19-2007, 09:18 PM
I'm confused... An atheist is someone who claims there is no God. Yes? Or am I wrong? This is a logical fallacy. Unless you were all knowing, which would sort of make YOU God, then you could not possibly rule out the existence of a supreme being. An agnostic I can perfectly understand, someone who claims they just don't know, but making an absolute claim that there is no God. This scares me more than religious nuts do.

Am I missing something here?

.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in the existence of God. No intellectually honest atheist claims what you claim atheists claim. An atheist puts God in the same category as Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny; you can't rule out completely the possibility that they exist, but you can be sure enough to believe that they don't.

Read my previous posts in this thread. All people are agnostic about the existence of God, atheists and theists alike.

Luther
12-19-2007, 09:20 PM
Non-practicing Buddhist.

Do you consider Buddhism to be a religion? I consider it to be a philosophy, but I am not too well informed about it.

Ibtz
12-19-2007, 09:36 PM
Catholic here.

indivi
12-19-2007, 09:37 PM
I'm confused... An atheist is someone who claims there is no God. Yes? Or am I wrong? This is a logical fallacy. Unless you were all knowing, which would sort of make YOU God, then you could not possibly rule out the existence of a supreme being. An agnostic I can perfectly understand, someone who claims they just don't know, but making an absolute claim that there is no God. This scares me more than religious nuts do.

Am I missing something here?

.

A bit, yes. An atheist simply thinks that there is no reason to believe that any sort of supernatural entity exists. I agree with you that it isn't logically sound to completely rule out anything, which includes (as the popular memes go) things such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Celestial Teapot, each of which from a logical standpoint have the same amount of evidence supporting their existence as any "real" religion's god. The atheist's view is, "The absence of proof for a god's nonexistence does not constitute evidence supporting said god." Logically, the burden of proof is on the one who posits a claim (in this case, that being the existence of a god), not on those who seek to dismiss the claim.

I think that people who call themselves agnostics are usually people who either haven't heard of most atheist reasonings and have drifted away from the religion they've grown up with, simply don't care much one way or another, or just don't want to start any arguments. As such, agnosticism is more of an "undecided" category. As an atheist (raised Catholic) myself, while I do not believe there is a supernatural power such as a god in the universe, I certainly do not rule it out completely. I would go so far as to say I believe that the gods of our religions very probably do not exist, but that is not the same as saying that I know for a fact that these gods do not exist.

I must say I'm a bit surprised to see so many votes for the Atheist/Agnostic option. Combining the other options, most are still Christian as would be expected. Maybe the proportion of nontheists is a bad sign, indicating that the movement hasn't attracted enough Christian Conservative support yet?

Hm, seems I got beaten pretty badly on this post, but I hope it helps clarify the matter. What's great about this movement is that everyone can really come together; we have a great variety of supporters from all paths and persuasions. We aren't divided by things like this, and we recognize the freedom that everyone has to believe or not believe whatever they want. What else can I say? RP08.

Vladk1000
12-19-2007, 09:38 PM
My thinking is that if there is no way to prove it, then it automatically defaults to the negative.

Birdlady
12-19-2007, 09:39 PM
I've got to say F YOU FRANK on this one.

amy31416
12-19-2007, 10:13 PM
Non-practicing Jew.

MedicSean37
12-19-2007, 10:16 PM
agnostic

hambone1982
12-19-2007, 10:27 PM
"Angry"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iVSBBJtLuNo&feature=related

HazardPerry
12-19-2007, 10:40 PM
Muslim

quantized
12-19-2007, 10:54 PM
nice poll.

Discobolus
12-27-2007, 11:54 PM
other...deist

jpa
12-28-2007, 12:06 AM
you should put non-religous / agnostic together. Atheism doesn't go with agnostic.

(I voted non-religous since you had atheism grouped with my first choice, agnostic.

AdoubleR
12-28-2007, 04:01 AM
Muslim

Goeran
12-28-2007, 04:15 AM
Atheist

Matthew Zak
12-28-2007, 04:16 AM
Yeah, grouping atheist with agnostic is almost insulting... that, to me, is like grouping libertarian with liberal. Just... no.

wildflower
12-28-2007, 04:45 AM
Former agnostic and very unreligious for most of my life. I started believing in '98, but because it was such a big change for me, I didn't jump into it right away. 2 years later I became a born again Christian, on July 9, 2000. :) Definitely the best thing to happen in my life. Since then, I've done some missions work and studies through a christian organization. I made a little video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Ntiq6MrlE) about the great commission, if anyone wants to take a look.

skeet
12-28-2007, 06:35 AM
I'm a Christian (non-denominational) I hang out with a bunch of sinners like Jesus did. :)

eloquensanity
12-28-2007, 06:40 AM
Former agnostic and very unreligious for most of my life. I started believing in '98, but because it was such a big change for me, I didn't jump into it right away. 2 years later I became a born again Christian, on July 9, 2000. :) Definitely the best thing to happen in my life. Since then, I've done some missions work and studies through a christian organization. I made a little video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Ntiq6MrlE) about the great commission, if anyone wants to take a look.

Very inspirational video Good job.
:)

romeshomey
12-28-2007, 06:50 AM
I'm a deist.

enjoiskaterguy
12-28-2007, 06:52 AM
Mormon(we really are christian).

I am proud to be a mormon who doesn;t support Mitt Romney. The majority wil just vote for Mitt because they belong to the same faith. Just wrong I tell ya, just wrong.

Losts of agnostics and aitheists...wow. Couldn't care less, but interesting. Power to the people.

enjoiskaterguy
12-28-2007, 06:53 AM
I'm a Christian (non-denominational) I hang out with a bunch of sinners like Jesus did. :)

I'm sorry but that was just too funny. Major thumbs up.

wildflower
12-28-2007, 07:05 AM
Very inspirational video Good job.
:)


Thanks very much! I appreciate that. :)

navi
12-28-2007, 07:07 AM
atheist

Gimme Some Truth
12-28-2007, 07:09 AM
Other:

Im open to all possibilities. I'm open to the existence of Jesus , Mohamed and the other religious icons . I'm even open enough to the possibility that they were ,in some way, alien or humans that somehow "got it" , in that they understood the reality in which we live in and could manipulate it. I respect the ordinary religious person but I just find it hard that a bloke with a beard created light and built us out of a rib bone.... but hey, i am open minded :) . I am inclined to believe that the Universe itself is what we call "God" and that being born of the universe we never truly die.

Out of all the ideologies that you listed Buddhism is very interesting to me.

akforme
12-28-2007, 07:11 AM
I'm sorry to say but chat rooms and message boards are the way America should be. I don't see race, religion, sex, anything like that when I read peoples messages. I just read another persons point of view.

Finn
12-28-2007, 07:18 AM
As for Sweden being an atheistic (?) and godless nation, according to the CIA World Factbook:


Lutheran 87%, other (includes Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist) 13%


I can tell you that in Sweden and other scandinavian countries religion simply does not dominate people's mindset. Most are connected to church from birth but that really says nothing about their beliefs. My experience is that most simply cannot be arsed to separate themselves from church and staying part of it is just a habit, and most don't go to church except on weddings or funerals etc. Religion simply does not play a big role, unlike in America.

Personally, I'm an atheist.

Eric21ND
12-28-2007, 07:25 AM
I would just like to say that atheists in general tend to be intellectuals and we value independent intelligent thought and discussion. Hence our strong support for Ron Paul. Several of my friends who are self-described atheists also back Dr. Paul 100%. I think for the first time a Presidential candidate is tapping into that segment of the population that are non-religious, this is all quite interesting.

Triton
12-28-2007, 07:25 AM
Christian - PCA. Former cutlure warrior who figured out that God doesn't need the government to change culture. That's what He uses US for!

noztnac
12-28-2007, 07:30 AM
I'm Christian but I respect all religions as well as atheists, agnostics, etc. I find Huckabee's brand of religion creepy and weird, and by that I don't mean Southern Baptist, I mean politician who uses religion to rake in votes.

Midnight77
12-28-2007, 07:35 AM
Agnostic for me.

Meadophile
12-28-2007, 07:37 AM
Asatru/Odinism

c0unterph0bia
12-28-2007, 08:06 AM
Agnostic - This is why http://youtube.com/watch?v=6mmskXXetcg

Gimme Some Truth
12-28-2007, 08:07 AM
I would just like to say that atheists in general tend to be intellectuals and we value independent intelligent thought and discussion. Hence our strong support for Ron Paul. Several of my friends who are self-described atheists also back Dr. Paul 100%. I think for the first time a Presidential candidate is tapping into that segment of the population that are non-religious, this is all quite interesting.

I dont really want to stir a heated debate but ...

I understand what you are saying , but I cant agree that its intelligent to believe absolutely in something that cannot be proven eg. death etc. Sure atheism is grounded in science but science isn't a book-end on possibility. Infact science is forever evolving , taking new directions and making U turns. The book-end is always moving around.

Considering our civilization has barely left the womb , in the grand scheme of things, I cannot subscribe to Atheism , specifically speaking, as a result of intelligence and/or science. Because of this , in my humble opinion, ruling out an endless wealth of possibilities and believing so absolutely in 1 belief ,whether it be atheism or an organized religion , is very pre-mature. We literally know nothing about the Universe . Heck, we know little about our own brains , or atleast only use a small percentage of them


*runs away at full speed :D

Ronnec
12-28-2007, 08:19 AM
Eastern Orthodox Christian.

TheDuke
12-28-2007, 08:36 AM
Asatru/Odinism


Really??

mdmarino
12-28-2007, 09:36 AM
So this is where all the atheists hang out?? I so rarely come across any in "real" daily life here in the bible belt. I'm happy to find that I'm not alone!

~another atheist for Ron Paul

Elwar
12-28-2007, 09:50 AM
I never answer poll or survey questions asking for race or religion.

Dominic
12-28-2007, 10:08 AM
I'm a follower of Jesus.

daniroyer
12-28-2007, 10:38 AM
All I can think of when I see that poll is the song "Christians and the Pagans" by Dar Williams (?). Bascially it's a song about a pagan sitting down to Christmas dinner with her Christian relatives and how when they sit together "only pumpkin pies are burning".

Except with this group, it's the Christians, the atheists, the Jews, etc.

It's great to see!

Yet another atheist over here.

firebirdnation
12-28-2007, 10:49 AM
Agnostic here, but why did you lump Atheist and Agnostic together?

hells_unicorn
12-28-2007, 11:32 AM
Devout Practicing Catholic here.

P.S. - For those of you who believe that the founding fathers were all Deists, look up Samuel Adams, Patrick Henry, and James Madison (all Presbyterians of varying degrees) as well as Charles Carroll of Carrollton (Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence and biggest financial contributor to the Revolution, also a staunch supporter of George Washington even during his lowest times as General of the Continental Army), as well as Daniel and John of the Carroll. Daniel Carroll and Thomas Fitzsimmons were the two Catholic signers of the Constitution, and John Carroll founded Georgetown University and was instrumental in gaining independence of the American Catholic Church from the British Diocese.

QuesoPantera
12-28-2007, 11:36 AM
blimp for the agnostics

I'm tickled that we have such a variety of faiths here, glad we're all united for liberty!

Mike S.
12-28-2007, 11:41 AM
Christian, of the "born again" variety.
Good idea to put this poll up! It points out the diversity of the Ron Paul support. Just in my own circle of friends and family I have brought into the Ron Paul fold, two are Catholic, one is atheist, one is some sort of New Age belief (spiritualist?), and 6 or 7 other hopefuls are like myself.

QuesoPantera
12-28-2007, 11:42 AM
Agnostic here, but why did you lump Atheist and Agnostic together?

I agree, there is quite a distinction there. Atheism is an absolute belief in the absence of a God figure. Agnostics like myself reserve the possibility of the existence of God, or even the possibility that some existing faith has it "right" - but in the absence of hard empirical evidence (beyond the books, which have immense logical holes and historical translation issues) I cannot affirm or dismiss God outright.

TheEvilDetector
12-28-2007, 11:47 AM
Is non-religious in this poll supposed to represent a stronger option than atheism?

I chose atheism but I think I should have chosen non-religious.

xtravar
12-28-2007, 12:17 PM
Wow, so many people here lack a basic understanding of religious philosophy.

The "gnostic" base deals with knowledge and the "theist" base deals with belief.

Agnosticism is not a belief or lack thereof. It is a lack of knowledge.

You either actively believe/suspect there is a god or you do not. If you do not, you are an atheist.

When someone makes a claim, the burden of proof falls upon that person. It is not the atheist's burden to prove there is no god, but the theist's burden to prove there is a god. That is how science and logic work.

If you are unconvinced, or on the fence, about theism, then you are an atheist, plain and simple.

... why am I bothering? :P

MayTheRonBeWithYou
12-28-2007, 01:04 PM
Atheism FTW!

MayTheRonBeWithYou
12-28-2007, 01:07 PM
Atheism simply means not religious. It's like the word atypical = not typical. Atheist = not theist.

Agnostic has no real meaning. If you are claiming agnostic you are an atheist.

BuddyRey
12-28-2007, 01:34 PM
I've never attended a service, but I adore the spiritual and philosophical ideals of the Quakers. Pacifism, voluntarism, tolerance, and reverence for free will and the human spirit. Even though clean living and modesty is encouraged, it's never couched in terms of self-denial, excessive judgement, or original sin. They believe that there's a little bit of God in everybody. That's a faith I could really sink my teeth into.

Yom
12-28-2007, 01:49 PM
I agree, there is quite a distinction there. Atheism is an absolute belief in the absence of a God figure. Agnostics like myself reserve the possibility of the existence of God, or even the possibility that some existing faith has it "right" - but in the absence of hard empirical evidence (beyond the books, which have immense logical holes and historical translation issues) I cannot affirm or dismiss God outright.

No strong atheism is an absolute belief in the absence of a God figure. Weak atheism is that there's no evidence of such a god, and is little differentiable from Agnosticism.

iloveronpaul
12-28-2007, 01:51 PM
Atheist/Agnostic. I am not a fan of organized religion but I have nothing against spirituality. at the same time I don't like either of these lables. :)

Oliver
12-28-2007, 01:52 PM
I believe the Bible was written by Satan to make sure he gets ALL the Christian souls! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/angelic008.gif

MUHAWAWAWAAAAH! :D

4Horsemen
12-28-2007, 02:03 PM
I'm a satanist, and a member of Temple of Set.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7260857321088952109&q=michael+aquino&total=79&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

http://www.xeper.org/pub/xp_main.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7944695466357169426&q=michael+aquino&total=79&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

nbhadja
12-28-2007, 02:08 PM
No strong atheism is an absolute belief in the absence of a God figure. Weak atheism is that there's no evidence of such a god, and is little differentiable from Agnosticism.

I guarantee you that almost all atheists are "strong atheists" by your definition.

Atheism- There is no god.

JenaS62
12-28-2007, 02:12 PM
Agnostic here. Meaning that I believe that you can never prove or disprove the existence of God.

JenaS62
12-28-2007, 02:13 PM
I'm a satanist, and a member of Temple of Set.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7260857321088952109&q=michael+aquino&total=79&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

http://www.xeper.org/pub/xp_main.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7944695466357169426&q=michael+aquino&total=79&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0



4 Horsemen - do you believe that Enki is Satan?

Eric21ND
12-28-2007, 02:26 PM
Wow, so many people here lack a basic understanding of religious philosophy.

The "gnostic" base deals with knowledge and the "theist" base deals with belief.

Agnosticism is not a belief or lack thereof. It is a lack of knowledge.

You either actively believe/suspect there is a god or you do not. If you do not, you are an atheist.

When someone makes a claim, the burden of proof falls upon that person. It is not the atheist's burden to prove there is no god, but the theist's burden to prove there is a god. That is how science and logic work.

If you are unconvinced, or on the fence, about theism, then you are an atheist, plain and simple.

... why am I bothering? :P

Good point. I was going to state this, but then said "why bother". Agnosticism doesn really carry any weight, because believers or disbelievers don't really have "knowledge", they have faith or you don't. Nobody has complete knowledge. Agnostics must ask themselves why they are agnostics concerning religion and not other highly improbable things? Why does religion get special treatment. Do you ever hear someone say I'm agnostic concerning the existence of Santa or the Easter bunny? No, of course not because its reasonable to just say they do not exist. But if you're agnostic concerning religion you would have to also be agnostic concerning a whole host of other issues and its just not practical.

CAKochenash
12-28-2007, 02:42 PM
And the number one cause of the rapid increase in the Atheist population in America is..........(drumroll)........

Oliver
12-28-2007, 02:56 PM
And the number one cause of the rapid increase in the Atheist population in America is..........(drumroll)........

God telling Bush to invade innocent countries? :confused:

Swmorgan77
12-28-2007, 03:08 PM
Damn, mormons aren't even listed as chrisitians. I might be an atheist, but isn't this a slam against Joseph Smith's flock?

I don't take offense at not being considered Christian because I know the term is not defined by belief in Jesus as having been the Messiah and divine. (Which we believe)

It is defined by implicit acceptance of the various early Church fathers and the creeds of Christendom which were adopted long after the era of the apostles and are not scriptural, such as the Nicean creed etc.

If acceptance of those creeds is the measuring stick of "Christian" then I readily reject the label.

John Adams rejected the doctrine of the Trinity, and Thomas Jefferson never did align himself with a Christian denomination and remained hostile to them, though he fervently professed his belief in the scriptures themselves. He simply thought that all churches in existence were out of harmony with the scriptural record and teachings. He even went so far as to predict that coming generations would restore true Christianity and viewed the undertaking of providing political freedom in America as a stepping stone towards that.

Devil_rules_in_extremes
12-28-2007, 03:11 PM
I'm a Christian.

Eric21ND
12-28-2007, 03:19 PM
For more on this subject, please view this video of Richard Dawkins on C-SPAN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_z85O0P2M

Oliver
12-28-2007, 03:24 PM
For more on this subject, please view this video of Richard Dawkins on C-SPAN.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_z85O0P2M

I would rather point to patcondell (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=patcondell).
This guy knows how to hit the nail. :p

mavtek
12-28-2007, 03:32 PM
Atheist, and boy there appears to be a lot of us :) I'm pleased!

pikerz
12-28-2007, 03:33 PM
*looks around for Frank Luntz*

4Horsemen
12-28-2007, 06:07 PM
4 Horsemen - do you believe that Enki is Satan?

I have no idea, I'm agnostic. Just having some fun. Interesting the former head of the NSA started a satanic church... He still heads the Temple of Set...:eek:

inibo
12-28-2007, 07:32 PM
Once again, no mention of Gnosticism in general or non-Jewish mystic Qabalists in particular. Talk about under the radar... :D

polomertz
12-28-2007, 07:40 PM
atheist - but I believe in extraterrestrials :)

parke
12-28-2007, 07:41 PM
Other= None of your business.

dawnbt
12-28-2007, 07:44 PM
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9569/wtftq3.gif...sooo many Atheist/Agnostic. i was expecting Christianity to dominate

If you add them all up...they do.

CelestialRender
12-28-2007, 08:07 PM
Once again, no mention of Gnosticism in general or non-Jewish mystic Qabalists in particular. Talk about under the radar... :D

I usually just answer "Atheist" for simplicity. :rolleyes:

CelestialRender
12-28-2007, 08:10 PM
If you add them all up...they do.

Well, they don't quite dominate. They are ahead by a few points though.

But if you add "non-religious" into the "Atheist/Agnostic" numbers, the non-believers pull ahead by a few.

Long story short: We're the most diverse political coalition America has seen in a LONG time.

ProBlue33
12-28-2007, 09:20 PM
This is truly amazing, that he has the most support from agnostics, when you consider this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw

I agree with Ron Paul on his comment 100%. His logic is just perfect.
I imagine that when a person delivers over 4000 babies it gives you a special perspective on how unique human life really is. I too reject evolution, I also reject the 6x24 hour abusrd theory of creation. God created this earth and it's life over a very large unknown period of time.

This is good to get the christian base when Huckabee eventually loses & Mitt gives up.

Dieseler
12-28-2007, 09:59 PM
Wow, its really amazing to me all these people of different faiths can follow a faithful Christian leader like Dr. Paul.

Now if Dr. Paul could just get them all to follow Christ and teach his word with the same conviction that he feels for the constitution, that would truly be amazing.

Unfortunately there is no one human being alive on Earth, not even Dr. Paul, that could do that.

:(:(:(

RonPaulVolunteer
12-28-2007, 10:03 PM
Hope Anthem, the song written by Marc Scibilia for the Ron Paul Revolution is now available for download by Ron Paul Forum readers. See the thread here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=67208

inibo
12-28-2007, 11:22 PM
Long story short: We're the most diverse political coalition America has seen in a LONG time.

This comment from a great essay by Will Grigg sort of sums it up

[Ron Paul's] "big tent" live-&-let-live conservative constitutional libertarianism is apparent to anyone who takes time to examine his record. That's the reason that hippies, homeschoolers, feminists, evangelicals, stoners, unreconstructed confederates, civil libertarians, and liberals and conservatives of every permutation stand together arm-in-arm with one another at Ron Paul meetings- they will tolerate one another long enough to elect someone that will allow them to never have to associate with one another ever again. It's an alien strategy in today's PC world, but a winning one.

From: http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/12/ron-paul-smearbund-hates-what-it-cant.html

wisconsinite
12-28-2007, 11:51 PM
Buddhist

JenaS62
12-29-2007, 11:30 AM
Thanks for your response. I was just curious. I've been researching the Anunnaki God Enki and he somehow ties in to Satanism.

thuja
12-29-2007, 11:32 AM
no religion

JenaS62
12-29-2007, 11:32 AM
And the number one cause of the rapid increase in the Atheist population in America is..........(drumroll)........

The movie Zeitgeist was the final nail in the proverbial coffin for me. I had my issues with religion for 40 years prior to that.

JenaS62
12-29-2007, 11:36 AM
atheist - but I believe in extraterrestrials :)



Funny you should say that. I consider myself Agnostic but I certainly believe in extraterrestrials and I even believe that they had a hand in our creation.

hypnagogue
12-29-2007, 01:27 PM
Wow. If you were to judge simply by the comments made on this board, I suspect you'd have found a significantly greater emphasis on Christianity. We Atheists are a little too used to having to keep our mouths shut, methinks. Silent majority as usual.

GunnyFreedom
01-06-2008, 04:22 AM
Hebrew-Roots Christian, a Believer in the Messiah who keeps the Feasts, and considers the Law to be holy, just, and pure.

Jeremiah
01-06-2008, 11:14 AM
I just think libertarians have realized that when you mix religion and politics you get politics. We need to keep politics separate from certain other fields, such as religion. This is part of a saying of Jesus in the Gospels; “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.” Funny how someone 2,000 years ago could see this so clearly.

He also said "For this reason I was born and for this purpose I came into the world, to bear witness to the Truth. Those who are of the Truth hear my voice".

So, no matter what you call yourself, or what others call you, if you hear the Truth then you are hearing the voice of the Father, because Jesus also said, "The words I speak are not my own. They are my Father's words".

Men create religions to acquire power, which is why they are willing to kill for them. Religions are part of this world of Death but Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world (this cosmos, this present system based upon Death)". This is why he laid down his life, entered the very heart of the realm of Death, and then took his life up again, to demonstrate finally, once and for all, that the Truth, Reality is from another place, another dimension entirely, the dimension of indestructible Life.

The whole purpose of having a limited government in this world system is so that men may freely seek the Truth and Life, pursue happiness, and the government will protect their unalienable right to do so. When government is tyrannical, the natural aspiration of all the governments of men, a diversity of opinion is forbidden and speaking the Truth becomes a revolutionary act because the Truth is not of this world, it comes from the dimension of indestructible Life, which is opposed to this world of Death.

Therefore, all Truth seekers, whatever they call themselves, will desire to have a limited government. This is being truthfully proposed by Dr. Ron Paul. This is why all Truth seekers should support him and no other. There can be no compromise with lies and death but we must never use the means of these enemies to attain our ends, else we have already lost.

Captain Shays
01-06-2008, 11:17 AM
Christian

GivePeace_A_Chance
11-22-2008, 08:10 PM
damn =0


Agnostic

nate895
11-22-2008, 09:17 PM
I highly doubt this is the Ron Paul support base overall. If 33% were atheiest/agnostic, that would mean that a full 10% of all atheists and agnostics, children, adults and otherwise ineligible people voted for Ron Paul in the primaries, 15.15% of eligible voters if they are statistically similar to other groups. I find that doubtful.

heavenlyboy34
11-22-2008, 09:29 PM
I like some philosophies of several religions, but mostly don't care much for organized religion-it's an institution of man (as opposed to "god", deity, etc.)that tends toward corruption. :p

Andrew Ryan
11-22-2008, 09:36 PM
Agnostic :d

nate895
11-22-2008, 09:41 PM
I like some philosophies of several religions, but mostly don't care much for organized religion-it's an institution of man (as opposed to "god", deity, etc.)that tends toward corruption. :p

Christianity was very much a decentralized religion up until the time it became the official religion of the Roman Empire, and an instrument Emperors used to control the populace. Before then, the church was organized, in a sense, but doctrine was determined on an individual and a church level. Bishops, Archbishops, and Patriarchs evolved and were basically only figureheads with symbolic honors for being particularly faithful priests. The only time they had any real power was when there was some kind of heresy that was going on, and a council of local bishops where the problem arose could excommunicate followers from the regular church. It took a lot to be branded a heretic, like claiming Christ was not the Son of God. If you go around and don't call Christ the Son of God, you aren't Christian by any stretch of the imagination.

Eventually the power fight between Rome and Constantinople politically led to a religious power fight between the two patriarchs. The Patriarch of Rome (known today as the Pope) claimed superiority over the others, since his was the post of Peter, while the Patriarch of Constantinople was the figurehead of the decentralized version of Christianity. They eventually split in the "Great Schism" in 1054, where the Patriarchs excommunicated each other. That led to the modern day Catholic Church and Orthodox Churches.