Star Trek, etc.

[Melchior]

Since this isn't a high traffic forum, (sans Ron Paul related threads), I'll try to all things Star Trek related to this thread. Maybe even all things sci-fi related. :cool:

From my avatar it should be obvious already what my favorite TV show is, but I'm a casual fan at best. I like Star Wars equally, if not more so, and science fiction in general.

So... to start with, here's a few articles on Star Trek from a libertarian perspective, if you don't mind my archiving them here. ~

The Economic Fantasy of "Star Trek" (http://www.fee.org/pdf/the-freeman/goldsmith1204.pdf) by P. Gardner Goldsmith
Happy 40th Birthday, Star Trek - Why Captain Kirk's story is the story of America (http://www.reason.com/news/show/36827.html) by Tim Cavanaugh
Warp Speed Libertarianism (http://www.anti-state.com/article.php?article_id=74) by Alberto Mingardi
The Economics of Star Trek (http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trek-Marxism.html) by Michael Wong

Okay... the last essay isn't written by a libertarian as far as I know, just a Star Wars geek who hates communism. :p

[Kandilynn]

I love Star Trek. I haven't every episode, but it's just such a great show.

[mrapathy]

I like StarTrek but its old.

I dont like whats going on in Reality in the moment so scifi and other fiction is on hold for me.

Reality is often stranger than fiction.

want your brain tweaked look into future plans of NBIC Nanotech
another interesting search nanotech morgellions.

Transhumanism is what the satanic wealthy elite want. to extend human life
the satanic side fear death and dont believe in afterlife.

if you thought RFID implants were bad. what they want to do with nanotech is absolut. Augmented Reality. The Ultimate Slave society. Propaganda and programming you cannot refuse.

http://www.wtec.org/ConvergingTechnologies/
http://www.nano.gov/html/res/slides.pdf
Convergence

couldnt find the nice pdf I was looking for dont have access to my nice treasure trove of data at moment due to computer failure. motherboard died unexpectantly.

btw William Shatner is a public speaker at Transhuman events.

being worked on right now. read the pdf's.
check the funding behind it.

should see how they talk about the future. how yesterdays sci fi which startrek pioneered some or exposed on tv is reality today. nanotech is not so new in sci fi and is around today and will be here in shortterm future 2010-2020.

[eduardo89]

I love Star Trek. I haven't every episode, but it's just such a great show.

I only ever watched Star Trek: The Next Generation with Patrick Stewart as Captain Jean-Luc Picard. I really liked it, but was never a massive fan.

[Kords21]

Good Mashup


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17Jqi6rMoNk

[anaconda]

...

[anaconda]

Many peoples' top rated episode (The City On The Edge Of Forever):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFqD7s-A6VU

[robert68]

Many peoples' top rated episode (The City On The Edge Of Forever):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFqD7s-A6VU

The bothersome thing about the plot in that episode, from a libertarian or non interventionist standpoint, is that Edith Keeler, in that scene, had to die because her influence in the movement opposing the US going to war against Germany in WW II helped delay the US entering the war. And, in accordance with US war propaganda, Hitler “got the a-bomb first” and “conquered the world”. This isn't meant as a criticism of the post btw.

[Occam's Banana]

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/zombie-spock-20100909-183937.jpg

[fisharmor]

My favorite TOS episode is "And the Children Shall Lead". Absolutely phenomenal writing.
And hardly anyone knows about it.

I was 13 when TNG first aired. Man was I excited. I had really only gotten into Trek a year earlier, and wham, more Trek, every week!
The first season, as a 13 year old, was pretty "meh". Then they "got better", in my 15-16 year old eyes.
When DS9 came on, the first season was pretty "meh". Then it "got better", in my 20-21 year old eyes.

Then Voyager came on, and I wasn't sure at all about a show involving a tiny ship that was hopelessly far from support. Didn't seem like there would be too many fights.
Then I realized that DS9 had turned into nothing but fighting. Then I realized that Voyager was actually some decent TV.
And something started to click.

When Enterprise came on, I watched it pretty faithfully, despite the fact that I had to plug my ears and yell "LALALALALA" when the theme was playing.
And it was ok for 4 or 5 episodes.
Then came the first episode where I had to have watched another episode to understand what was going on, and something clicked harder.

Then Joss Whedon made a doomed-from-the-start TV show which got cancelled after 9 episodes.
After watching "Objects in Space" when it broadcast on TV, knowing it was the last episode, I knew I would never watch another episode of Enterprise.

I've watched all the TOS episodes remastered, and I think they did a brilliant job at updating the effects but keeping the spirit of the show. (LUCAS, ARE YOU FUCKING LISTENING???)
I made it through TNG recently, and man, that show has NOT aged well.

Then, for the first time, I started watching The Twilight Zone. And the last piece clicked into place.

Star Trek sucks. It has sucked since about 1989. The stuff that didn't suck I didn't like back then, but I was 13.
The only thing that has happened since then that hasn't sucked is Star Trek 6, and that only doesn't suck because it's a decent murder mystery.

Trek started out as a genuine Sci-Fi show. Definitions of Sci-Fi vary, but I'm a firm believer that it has to say something about the human condition.
If a show is busy dwelling on the politics of neighboring empires, or exploring the particulars of a temporal war, or showcasing a fight between humans and the fourth or fifth total-warrior-race introduced so far, then it's not saying anything about US.

I go elsewhere for my Sci-Fi now. Even LOST did a better job, despite that final kick in the nuts.

[erowe1]

I'm not enough of a fan to know. But I thought Star Trek was kind of one-world-governmenty. Is that not right?

[fisharmor]

I'm not enough of a fan to know. But I thought Star Trek was kind of one-world-governmenty. Is that not right?

That is exactly right.
And the only time criminals are depicted they're either certifiably insane, or terrorists.

And we wonder how we got here.

[rev1689]

I'm a big Star Trek fan, having grown up watching TNG, then DS9 and some of Voyager. I missed the conclusion of Voyager and all of Enterprise when they originally aired because I didn't get the channel they were on during college, but caught them on Netflix over the last year or so.

In one of the seasons of Voyager there was an episode dealing with individual rights within the Q Continuum, which I really enjoyed. Unfortunately, the clip below really doesn't provide much context to the story, but given that Star Trek was rather "one-world-governmenty", this has been dubbed "the most libertarian thing said on Star Trek":


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYPMiXO0-fA

[Republicanguy]

Gen Roddenberry's vision for humanity from the perspective of living in the 1950's, and 60's was that humanity was at peace in the twenty third century, away from the problems of those decades.

Mr Roddenberry did have affairs behind his wife's back.

He had served in conflict as a pilot, and was a police officer from 1949 until 1956. He left the Police to began writing his trek series, and then Andromeda, that never took off, not long after him at the end of the century.

He was seen as a visionary who would portray a world without national governments, a sort of fuddy duddy utopia essentially one person's view of the future, I guess intellectual masturbation. I personally believe in this vision, but to get there it does need space flight to be at the front of a nation, how ever with people believing in god and following religion, in all probability it won't ever happen.

He was agnostic. He was raised as a baptist, he was born in Texas state yet lived in California, the same place as Brent Spiner, who stared as Data on the TNG series. Some of those episodes in the early seasons were creative such as "Where no man has gone before" before the Hubble telescope even gave us views of the galaxy with more precision, slightly sexist title, but trek was never perfect, well the writing and perception, but like I've typed its one person's view of a fuddy wuddy future where the injustice of our time has vanished and humanity has become much more enlightened than we are in the real world.

I have to type, I liked more the 'Enterprise' series as it felt much more realistic than previous series's. I enjoyed one particular episode which was from season 3, "Carpenter street", it took the leading characters of the series back to the early twenty first century in 2004 from the year 2153 to chase a time travelling enemy. I like the contrast between that better future, and well the more tough love past or our present. "Is this how human beings treat each other in the twenty first century."? As Captain Archer's first officer says when Archer confronts the man kidnapping people and drugging them for money, as the enemy seeks to build a up DNA analysis for destruction of the species using a bio weapon.

How ever in one particular episode in season one Commander Tucker explains to his team "the boys at Jupiter will have this done...", I don't remember the time, concerning one working Phase Cannon for the ship as a Silent enemy attacks the ship without provocation and the standard torpedeos don't damage the ship as it returns more than once. Again that future still had male direction than a women leadership or engineers.:rolleyes:

ENT does have a great soundtrack! I listened to one of the songs on youtube, during my reading of Curiosity Rover having landed safely at Gale crator last year.:D "new Horizons" or known as "first flight":rolleyes:

Ofcourse that series was produced by Rick Berman and Branon Bragga who continued the franchise after Roddenberry.

The Scientist from Montana a decade after world war 3 won't be making his first warp flight in 2063 because he doesn't exist. ;)

Its painfully sad, but just like the Biker gang video or whatever imperfection in life, stuff happens.:(

[Aratus]

the episode with the HORTA... Devil in the Dark... a classic!

[fisharmor]

In one of the seasons of Voyager there was an episode dealing with individual rights within the Q Continuum, which I really enjoyed.

That whole episode was an anomalous bright spot in the franchise.

[anaconda]

The bothersome thing about the plot in that episode, from a libertarian or non interventionist standpoint, is that Edith Keeler, in that scene, had to die because her influence in the movement opposing the US going to war with Germany in WW II, helped delay the US entering the war. And, in accordance with US war propaganda, Hitler “got the a-bomb first” and “conquered the world”. This isn't meant as a criticism of the post btw.

Right. Yet, Kirk disobeyed his superiors and their orders on many occasions throughout the series. The writers also took many opportunities to portray their enemies and adversaries as beings with positive qualities, intriguing characteristics, and a story of their own to be told.

[anaconda]

the episode with the HORTA... Devil in the Dark... a classic!

"Just like the others..BURNED TO A CRISP!!..."

[KingRobbStark]

I only watched Enterprise. It was a decent series, but I mainly watched because of the Vulcan chick.

[kahless]

Gen Roddenberry's vision for humanity from the perspective of living in the 1950's, and 60's was that humanity was at peace in the twenty third century, away from the problems of those decades.

Mr Roddenberry did have affairs behind his wife's back.

He had served in conflict as a pilot, and was a police officer from 1949 until 1956. He left the Police to began writing his trek series, and then Andromeda, that never took off, not long after him at the end of the century.

He was seen as a visionary who would portray a world without national governments, a sort of fuddy duddy utopia essentially one person's view of the future, I guess intellectual masturbation. I personally believe in this vision, but to get there it does need space flight to be at the front of a nation, how ever with people believing in god and following religion, in all probability it won't ever happen.

He was agnostic. He was raised as a baptist, he was born in Texas state yet lived in California, the same place as Brent Spiner, who stared as Data on the TNG series. Some of those episodes in the early seasons were creative such as "Where no man has gone before" before the Hubble telescope even gave us views of the galaxy with more precision, slightly sexist title, but trek was never perfect, well the writing and perception, but like I've typed its one person's view of a fuddy wuddy future where the injustice of our time has vanished and humanity has become much more enlightened than we are in the real world.

I have to type, I liked more the 'Enterprise' series as it felt much more realistic than previous series's. I enjoyed one particular episode which was from season 3, "Carpenter street", it took the leading characters of the series back to the early twenty first century in 2004 from the year 2153 to chase a time travelling enemy. I like the contrast between that better future, and well the more tough love past or our present. "Is this how human beings treat each other in the twenty first century."? As Captain Archer's first officer says when Archer confronts the man kidnapping people and drugging them for money, as the enemy seeks to build a up DNA analysis for destruction of the species using a bio weapon.

How ever in one particular episode in season one Commander Tucker explains to his team "the boys at Jupiter will have this done...", I don't remember the time, concerning one working Phase Cannon for the ship as a Silent enemy attacks the ship without provocation and the standard torpedeos don't damage the ship as it returns more than once. Again that future still had male direction than a women leadership or engineers.:rolleyes:

ENT does have a great soundtrack! I listened to one of the songs on youtube, during my reading of Curiosity Rover having landed safely at Gale crator last year.:D "new Horizons" or known as "first flight":rolleyes:

Ofcourse that series was produced by Rick Berman and Branon Bragga who continued the franchise after Roddenberry.

The Scientist from Montana a decade after world war 3 won't be making his first warp flight in 2063 because he doesn't exist. ;)

Its painfully sad, but just like the Biker gang video or whatever imperfection in life, stuff happens.:(

I loved all the different series and remember back when they were airing reading some of the fan posts bashing those guys. I bet those same fans these days are begging for those guys to do the next movie. I wish they had produced the movies instead of that typical shallow Hollywood garbage that JJ Abrams gave us.

[Todd]

I go elsewhere for my Sci-Fi now. Even LOST did a better job, despite that final kick in the nuts.

I agree that Lost was the best Sci Fi in a generation. I have to disagree that the ending was a nut kick. I felt like it was a logical conclusion to what I had witnessed. I can't think of any other scenario and always felt like that's what was going on. But that's for another thread.

[angelatc]

I only watched Enterprise. It was a decent series, but I mainly watched because of the Vulcan chick.

Thats where I got off the Star Trek bandwagon. I watched Kirk's crew for years in after school syndication. Watched TNG religiously - there was a group of friends that would take turns hosting viewing parties on new episode nights. I didn't care for the fact that they rarely left the ship, and Wesley Crusher annoyed me. DS9 grew on me quite a bit. Tried to watch Voyager, but my first son was born the same year it debuted and I never seemed able to get involved in it, but I don't really blame the show.

When Enterprise was announced I was happy. All I remember from the show was the writer's immediate fixation on sexual tension, including the female Vulcan in the shower. I watched a few episodes, but decided this incarnation was just pathetic.

I agree - TNG has not aged well. Not sure why, but it really hasn't.

[Theocrat]

I thought the two latest Star Trek movies were pretty good.

[fisharmor]

I agree - TNG has not aged well. Not sure why, but it really hasn't.

The original series aged gracefully for several reasons.

First, because TOS was in the swingin' 60's. The most ridiculous fashions of that decade will be classics forever. Miniskirts, go-go boots, and beehives? Hells yeah!
TNG existed in a decade of fashion nightmares, which some of us did a lot of drugs in the mid-late 90's to try to forget.
The regular uniforms made them look like bellhops. And that puce-colored one-piece that Troi wore in a lot of episodes could have had a neckline that showed off her pubes, and it still would have been screaming LOOK AT MUH LOVE HANDLES.
Not to mention the fact that the captain's ready room was expertly appointed in 1980s pink, and Wesley was prancing around wearing a rainbow.

Then there's the acting. The weakest link on TOS was Shatner. And on retrospect, after seeing a few episodes of Boston Legal, he isn't really that weak.
I still go back and watch some of the episodes just to watch the interaction between Nimoy and Kelley - those guys were professionals at work.
Then there's Doohan - bet you didn't know there's an animated cartoon of Star Trek from 1974 where the entire cast reunited to do vocals, did you? Well Doohan also did most of the random voice work on that show.
And just about every single guest star on TOS was a grade-A actor.

TNG? Stewart and Spiner, and a bunch of people phoning it in. I guess I can respect Sirtis because she made up the accent.
But Frakes? Three acting modes: deadpan and scowling, deadpan and smiling, and yelling.
The worst thing that happened to the show was when Diana Muldaur left. She brought the genuine acting talent count up to three people. She could act circles around McFadden.

I think the main reason TNG hasn't aged well is what I already hinted at: the original series has timeless commentary in it. TNG did ok for a couple seasons, and then got into the succession of the Klingon empire, tinkering around with the internal politics of Romulus, and other crap that just doesn't matter. It's just a bunch of people in makeup that stuff happens to.

As I'm typing this I decided to start through Voyager again, and I'm reminded that there's one other thing that they started doing in TNG that stinks - they fill significant amounts of significant numbers of episodes with technobabble. There are some episodes that are particularly bad about it, where it's obvious the writers wanted to have the entire episode center on one character, but they couldn't stretch it into an hour, so they just spout technical crap for 15 minutes of the episode and turn it into a sub-plot.

In TOS, the most technical it ever gets is Scotty coming up with a cute way to say "it's broken". And that's all the audience really needs.

[angelatc]

Yes, I did know there was an animated version. I don't think I knew that the original cast voiced it though, and I've never seen an episode.

I think I might try to watch Voyager, since I never really gave it a chance. (But I can't imagine ever giving Enterprise another shot.)

[Republicanguy]

Enterprise was much more realistic in comparison, the other series didn't feel that way. How ever Seasons 1, 2 were good. I didn't like the last two so much.

As for the new films, they aren't trek, they don't have the intellectual aspect to it. It's all for those who don't like science fiction.

If anything when I was thinking about a future Lunar Lander to go to the moon the airlock could some how resemble the design from Enterprise airlock dock. The uniforms perhaps for the Astronauts when living aboard the spacecraft, the flat screen monitors etc

I think NASA could try and look at Enterprise for cerain style inspiration!;)

I think the Orion space craft should be called Enterprise. :rolleyes:

[Zippyjuan]

I remember my first episode- "The Trouble With Tribles". Watched the latest movie but was kinda disappointed. Lots of action and not much else.

[eduardo89]

I like it when threads from 2007 are still active.

[willwash]

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/zombie-spock-20100909-183937.jpg

Zombie thread!

[anaconda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWTKh0WXgrg