The dangers of "group think" in the Ron Paul grassroots community

[ErikBlack]

As the Ron Paul campaign gains momentum it has brought many new supporters who are not from a libertarian background and its great to have them. But sometimes old habits die hard and they have brought with them some idealogical baggage. We are beginning to see more bickering and collectivist thinking regarding who should be allowed to be part of "the movement" and who should be excluded. This type of discourse is dangerous because it assumes that we are part of a group called "Ron Paul supporters". We are not.

We are individuals who happen to share a single common interest, but vary in many other ways. No group of us, no matter how large a majority, has the right to ban or dissuade anyone else from being a Ron Paul supporter or from practicing their right to free speech in any way they see fit, no matter how damaging you may consider it to the campaign. Freedom is not easy. In a free society you have to put up with a lot of crap from other people.

Let's say you want to stop certain people from publicly endorsing Ron Paul because they espouse politically incorrect opinions that tarnish his good name and hurt his credibility in the public eye. How do you expect to accomplish that? Well first you try appeal to them sensibly in hopes they will change their mind. But they won't listen. Then you try to get them to go away, but they won't go. Then you try and censor them, but they find other ways of spreading their message. Finally, you are left with no other option but to appeal to a higher authority to outlaw their behavior. Before you know it you are right back in the collectivist, authoritarian boat you were trying to escape from in the first place. Don't do it folks. Live and let live.

[hard@work]

Liberty is more of a "you don't like it? well I'm going to do it anyways" kinda thing. And we're really really darn good at it.

;)

[piotr1]

SUPER BUMP!!

Orwell gives 5 stars!

[cicatrice]

*claps* Well said!

[PimpBlimp]

Great post sir

[scoot87]

great thread. This world we live in can be a paradoxical one. We need to understand that we must unite on our principles of freedom, liberty, and the Constitution. On the smaller issues like abortion and 9/11 needs to be respected and not be used as a divisive tool. These issues are irrelevant as long as the principles of the message hold true in our hearts.

[Mark Rushmore]

Sometimes I think the timing on this campaign is truly divine. If he had picked up this momentum earlier - there would have been plenty of less deadline-pressured time for his supporters to tear each other apart - as it is, we can sweep the man into office and then turn towards using our renewed freedoms against each other.

^^The turning on each other mostly meant as a joke ;).

[Revolution9]

As the Ron Paul campaign gains momentum it has brought many new supporters who are not from a libertarian background and its great to have them. But sometimes old habits die hard and they have brought with them some idealogical baggage. We are beginning to see more bickering and collectivist thinking regarding who should be allowed to be part of "the movement" and who should be excluded. This type of discourse is dangerous because it assumes that we are part of a group called "Ron Paul supporters". We are not.

We are individuals who happen to share a single common interest, but vary in many other ways. No group of us, no matter how large a majority, has the right to ban or dissuade anyone else from being a Ron Paul supporter or from practicing their right to free speech in any way they see fit, no matter how damaging you may consider it to the campaign. Freedom is not easy. In a free society you have to put up with a lot of crap from other people.

Let's say you want to stop certain people from publicly endorsing Ron Paul because they espouse politically incorrect opinions that tarnish his good name and hurt his credibility in the public eye. How do you expect to accomplish that? Well first you try appeal to them sensibly in hopes they will change their mind. But they won't listen. Then you try to get them to go away, but they won't go. Then you try and censor them, but they find other ways of spreading their message. Finally, you are left with no other option but to appeal to a higher authority to outlaw their behavior. Before you know it you are right back in the collectivist, authoritarian boat you were trying to escape from in the first place. Don't do it folks. Live and let live.

And the other canard is would Ron Paul do that? I ain't Ron Paul. He understands that totally. I wonder why t is so hard for others to grasp. Actually I don't .. they use it as a cudgel to gain submission to THEIR authority and perceptions.

Best Regards
Randy

[pazzo83]

awesome post

[MsDoodahs]

No group of us, no matter how large a majority, has the right to ban or dissuade anyone else from being a Ron Paul supporter or from practicing their right to free speech in any way they see fit, no matter how damaging you may consider it to the campaign.

If you are referencing this particular venue (RonPaulForums.com), remember that this website is private property. The owner of this property has the right to ban whomever he so desires for whatever reason he chooses.

[skolwulf]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. " - Voltaire

Your post reminded me of this quote.

[thuja]

thanks for such a reasonable reminder to us all. i hope to see this repeated often

[nunaem]

Five stars!

[pazzo83]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. " - Voltaire

Your post reminded me of this quote.

that is one of my top 5 fav quotes

[literatim]

And the other canard is would Ron Paul do that? I ain't Ron Paul. He understands that totally. I wonder why t is so hard for others to grasp. Actually I don't .. they use it as a cudgel to gain submission to THEIR authority and perceptions.

Best Regards
Randy

I agree. We aren't a damn cult and Ron Paul is not a cult leader. We all support him for different reasons and the idea of "What would Ron Paul do" is asinine.

[Elwar]

On other sites you'd be banned for such non-conformist banter *cough Huckabee*.

[maxbish]

My thoughts EXACTLY ;)

[me3]

If you are referencing this particular venue (RonPaulForums.com), remember that this website is private property. The owner of this property has the right to ban whomever he so desires for whatever reason he chooses.
A++++ I wish more people had respect for private property rights.


I agree. We aren't a damn cult and Ron Paul is not a cult leader. We all support him for different reasons and the idea of "What would Ron Paul do" is asinine.
It is not asinine, if you are acting as his representative, and claiming to be a grassroots agent of his campaign. You wouldn't want someone misrepresenting you, and neither would I like someone to misrepresent me.

In Dr. Paul's case, misrepresentation has high stakes. You can believe whatever you want, act however you want, and live however you want, and I will die fighting for those rights. But you can't co-opt me into your movement, or claim to be my emissary if our ideologies diverge and you are promoting your ideology under my flag. That's coercion.

[Seth M.]

Here here!

It is this dissidence that makes Nov 5th type movements.. I welcome everyone from every nook and cranny! Come come enjoy our forum and make the movement MOVE. If we just want to talk to ourselves we can look in a mirror. I believe most of us here are here to support Ron Paul. ;)

Working together is difficult but working alone is awful and for the most part not effective. We have strength in numbers. DO NOT SEND ANYONE AWAY.

Peace Love Unity Respect... anyone here know about that?

[jd603]

Most of us get this, I have been preaching this for months now too... there is a small handful of people in here who are vocal in their beliefs and try to force their beliefs on others so there is a small amount of authentic in-fighting.

The most I see is from new people on the forum that appear to be provoking this kind of behavior on purpose to waste the energy of the grass roots on in-fighting. Provocateurs if you will.

They have been failing and I've been doing my best to call them out. :)


No worries yet! Keep rolling!



As the Ron Paul campaign gains momentum it has brought many new supporters who are not from a libertarian background and its great to have them. But sometimes old habits die hard and they have brought with them some idealogical baggage. We are beginning to see more bickering and collectivist thinking regarding who should be allowed to be part of "the movement" and who should be excluded. This type of discourse is dangerous because it assumes that we are part of a group called "Ron Paul supporters". We are not.

We are individuals who happen to share a single common interest, but vary in many other ways. No group of us, no matter how large a majority, has the right to ban or dissuade anyone else from being a Ron Paul supporter or from practicing their right to free speech in any way they see fit, no matter how damaging you may consider it to the campaign. Freedom is not easy. In a free society you have to put up with a lot of crap from other people.

Let's say you want to stop certain people from publicly endorsing Ron Paul because they espouse politically incorrect opinions that tarnish his good name and hurt his credibility in the public eye. How do you expect to accomplish that? Well first you try appeal to them sensibly in hopes they will change their mind. But they won't listen. Then you try to get them to go away, but they won't go. Then you try and censor them, but they find other ways of spreading their message. Finally, you are left with no other option but to appeal to a higher authority to outlaw their behavior. Before you know it you are right back in the collectivist, authoritarian boat you were trying to escape from in the first place. Don't do it folks. Live and let live.