Ron Paul fans outside United States?

[RPeurope]

I'm from finland and got to know Ron Paul on Youtube. I never knew that politicians like him even existed! He is honest!

I think what Europe needs is politicians like Ron Paul. European Union is changing towards stronger federal state and it seems there is nothing we can do. In Finland it is hard to find a good politician even remotely critical of EU and this is really frustrating.

I would like to know if there is any non-American Ron Paul fans here and where are you from?

[RPeurope]

This is what I mean:

http://infowars.net/articles/april2007/180407EU.htm :mad:

[Man from La Mancha]

I'm from finland and got to know Ron Paul on Youtube. I never knew that politicians like him even existed! He is honest!

I think what Europe needs is politicians like Ron Paul. European Union is changing towards stronger federal state and it seems there is nothing we can do. In Finland it is hard to find a good politician even remotely critical of EU and this is really frustrating.

I would like to know if there is any non-American Ron Paul fans here and where are you from?


They must be out there. For 30 years Ron has been talking this way but nobody listened. Look at your obscure politicians that the main stream media attacked or was called populist. Those people could of been slandered to marginalize them. I think and hope they are Ron Paul's in every country.

[WannaBfree]

I'm from finland and got to know Ron Paul on Youtube. I never knew that politicians like him even existed! He is honest!

I think what Europe needs is politicians like Ron Paul. European Union is changing towards stronger federal state and it seems there is nothing we can do. In Finland it is hard to find a good politician even remotely critical of EU and this is really frustrating.

I would like to know if there is any non-American Ron Paul fans here and where are you from?

Welcome! I am American but have lived abroad a good part of my life (Europe, Asia). The closest I got to Finland was Sweden and Denmark, but I have had friends from Finland. The artist Clifton Karha was one, who I understand is quite well known there.

I have been following the changes in Europe with interest. It appears to be part of the plan for the New World Order. Ron Paul actually has spoken about The New World Order:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7476231742205356463

But most people here aren't aware of it because they watch a lot of TV and get their news from mainstream media. And many unfortunately just can't imagine it to be true.

[RPeurope]

Welcome! I am American but have lived abroad a good part of my life (Europe, Asia). The closest I got to Finland was Sweden and Denmark, but I have had friends from Finland. The artist Clifton Karha was one, who I understand is quite well known there.

I have been following the changes in Europe with interest. It appears to be part of the plan for the New World Order. Ron Paul actually has spoken about The New World Order:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7476231742205356463

But most people here aren't aware of it because they watch a lot of TV and get their news from mainstream media. And many unfortunately just can't imagine it to be true.

All politicians who are critical of EU here are either far-left(communist) or far-right(racist). I can't support neither. The politicians of mainstream parties concentrate on less important issues like should people be allowed to smoke in restaurants and other things that any government should have no role in to begin with. At least in France people had chance to vote about new EU constitution and they said "NO!"(finnish parliament approved it 125–39) Majority of people don't want big federal state and government in Europe. But politicians and media are pushing it...


Never heard of Clifton Karha but I did a google search.. I guess you meant Clifton Karhu :)

[austin356]

All politicians who are critical of EU here are either far-left(communist) or far-right(racist). I can't support neither. The politicians of mainstream parties concentrate on less important issues like should people be allowed to smoke in restaurants and other things that any government should have no role in to begin with. At least in France people had chance to vote about new EU constitution and they said "NO!"(finnish parliament approved it 125–39) Majority of people don't want big federal state and government in Europe. But politicians and media are pushing it...


This is my exact perception. The people who understand the intentions of a superstate dont want it (though a sizable number do), but there seems to be nobody to turn to.

Why is nobody articulating the Classically Liberal position on this issue?

[torchbearer]

The Classical Liberals were killed off like the Jedi...
There are only a few Obi-Wans left wandering in the desert.
Luckily we have this opportunity to reclaim our country with Ron Paul.

[Man from La Mancha]

I'd like to ask residents of other countries do you have anything similar to the USA constitution and the Bill of rights that guarantees the minority is protected over majority. I apologize that I'm not familiar with other counties constitution. But would appreciate any info that maybe you of other counties have of the US Constitution and your own and can compare them. Because all Ron Paul is doing trying to reestablish Our constitution and what it stands for.


US Constitution
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html


US Bill Of Rights (which I like the best)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html


The debates the founders of the US had trying to develop the constitution of the US.
http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/

[WannaBfree]

All politicians who are critical of EU here are either far-left(communist) or far-right(racist). I can't support neither. The politicians of mainstream parties concentrate on less important issues like should people be allowed to smoke in restaurants and other things that any government should have no role in to begin with. At least in France people had chance to vote about new EU constitution and they said "NO!"(finnish parliament approved it 125–39) Majority of people don't want big federal state and government in Europe. But politicians and media are pushing it...


Never heard of Clifton Karha but I did a google search.. I guess you meant Clifton Karhu :)

I wonder if the leaders of the left and right in Finland too are working for the same goal, as it seems in The U.S.. Many believe that politics here is just a puppet show to make the public think they live in a democracy.

I understand that the Netherlands also voted against te EU constitution. But I guess they don't take things like that into consideration, as they passed it anyway. That type of thing is occuring more frequently in the US, with people voting against something, but it's passed anyway. Like the toll roads in Texas. Recently the Bush administration criminal Scooter Libby was convicted of crimes, and Bush pardoned him. They believe that they are above the law.

Sorry for the typo, yes it's Karhu (bear). He was my art teacher and friend for some years. He passed away just recently. I read that 234,000 people (4% of Finland's population) showed up to his exhibition in Punkarhajo :eek:

[RPeurope]

The idea of "freedom" is not very popular here in Finland. After the invasion of Iraq people are increasinly anti-american and cynical.

Free market is seen as evil corporatism... which I think is wrong.

Just last week I went to library trying to find anything by Ayn Rand who I believe was a big influence for Ron Paul. I could not find anything. Not one book. Didn't Ron Paul even name his son after Rand? I've read a lot about her and would like to read her books.

[torchbearer]

The idea of "freedom" is not very popular here in Finland. After the invasion of Iraq people are increasinly anti-american and cynical.

Free market is seen as evil corporatism... which I think is wrong.

Just last week I went to library trying to find anything by Ayn Rand who I believe was a big influence for Ron Paul. I could not find anything. Not one book. Didn't Ron Paul even name his son after Rand? I've read a lot about her and would like to read her books.

Scary. They control what you read.

[Man from La Mancha]

Wow this is interesting because I did't know how much the NWO is influencing Europe

[RPeurope]

Sorry for the typo, yes it's Karhu (bear). He was my art teacher and friend for some years. He passed away just recently. I read that 234,000 people (4% of Finland's population) showed up to his exhibition in Punkarhajo :eek:

I think you mean Punkaharju :) I honestly had never heard about him... now I'm getting to know his works.

[RPeurope]

Scary. They control what you read.
I've understood that Ayn Rand was a big influence in USA. So I expect to find some of her works in the library here. I never heard of her before internet... She may not be important figure in philosophy but she was influential and I'm surprised I never heard of her in school.

Edit: I found out that none of the Ayn Rand novels have been translated into finnish and english versions are not available here. If I want to read them I have to order them from amazon.com I think. Do you think they are worth reading?

[WannaBfree]

Wow this is interesting because I did't know how much the NWO is influencing Europe

Britain has probably suffered the most regarding the NWO plan implementation. Surveillance cameras everywhere I hear. And many weird new laws to "protect" its citizens. There has been talk of efforts to "harmonize" the North American Union with the EU. I guess if you want to rule the world, it has to all be under one system.



http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-countries-flags/united-nations.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/State_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_USSR_(1958-1991_version).jpg/574px-State_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_USSR_(1958-1991_version).jpg

[SeanEdwards]

I've understood that Ayn Rand was a big influence in USA. So I expect to find some of her works in the library here. I never heard of her before internet... She may not be important figure in philosophy but she was influential and I'm surprised I never heard of her in school.

Edit: I found out that none of the Ayn Rand novels have been translated into finnish and english versions are not available here. If I want to read them I have to order them from amazon.com I think. Do you think they are worth reading?

You should just check out some youtube interviews with Ayn Rand and visit the websites on her philosophy, in my opinion. I read the fountainhead and as a novel it didn't thrill me, but I do find stuff to admire in the philosophy.

[torchbearer]

I've understood that Ayn Rand was a big influence in USA. So I expect to find some of her works in the library here. I never heard of her before internet... She may not be important figure in philosophy but she was influential and I'm surprised I never heard of her in school.

Edit: I found out that none of the Ayn Rand novels have been translated into finnish and english versions are not available here. If I want to read them I have to order them from amazon.com I think. Do you think they are worth reading?

Atlas Shrugged is a recommended read... I take long trips so I rented Atlas Shrugged on audio cd. This book will have a movie made about it in 2008. Just in time for Ron Paul's victory. Plus, to understand the statement, "Who is Ron Paul?", you need to understand the statement, "Who is John Galt?" which comes from the book atlas shrugged.
Buy that book. It is worth it. It can be a difficult read... even for native english speakers.
There is a reason your government doesn't want you to read Rand. Why don't you find out what that reason is?

[RPeurope]

You should just check out some youtube interviews with Ayn Rand and visit the websites on her philosophy, in my opinion. I read the fountainhead and as a novel it didn't thrill me, but I do find stuff to admire in the philosophy.
I've done that. While I don't agree with her metaphysics and moral absolutism, I like her political ideas and I think she was an intelligent and fascinating person. Actually I first found out about her and then Ron Paul ;)

Strangely, Ayn Rand Institute (http://www.aynrand.org) seems to be hijacked by neo-conservatives... I don't think Ayn Rand would approve?

[WannaBfree]

Strangely, Ayn Rand Institute (http://www.aynrand.org) seems to be hijacked by neo-conservatives... I don't think Ayn Rand would approve?

I get access to the website. Is it blocked in your country?

[RPeurope]

I get access to the website. Is it blocked in your country?
No, what I mean is that they advocate the views of neo-conservatists. Not the views of Ayn Rand. Click Media --> What's new and see what they are about. I don't think they represent the views of Ayn Rand. Also check this --> http://ariwatch.com/


There is no internet censorship in my country, not that I know of...

[SeekLiberty]

I'm from finland and got to know Ron Paul on Youtube. I never knew that politicians like him even existed! He is honest!

I think what Europe needs is politicians like Ron Paul. European Union is changing towards stronger federal state and it seems there is nothing we can do. In Finland it is hard to find a good politician even remotely critical of EU and this is really frustrating.

The whole world needs more Freedom lovers like Ron Paul. I agree. (I had a wonderful Finish girlfriend name Tarja. (pronounced Tarya) Unfortunately she had to move back to Finland)

I believe Americans are the only one's left whom have the Constitutional basis to step up and bring back Liberty and our American Republic. We have to be an example to the WORLD on this, and show ourselves as true Patriots of Liberty ... not those criminal scoundrels we have in control of our Government who are damning the name of America and the Liberty it's supposed to represent.

It really is up to US, not Ron Paul. Anybody care to guess what we have to do?

- SL

[WannaBfree]

No, what I mean is that they advocate the views of neo-conservatists. Not the views of Ayn Rand. Click Media --> What's new and see what they are about. I don't think they represent the views of Ayn Rand.

I see. Well, it wouldn't surprise me. It seems they have infiltrated everywhere else.

[mars]

I'm from Canada, eh.

The United States has so much influence on us, I feel that it's unfair we have so little influence on them. Actually it's not uncommon amongst Canadians to be more interested in U.S. politics than Canadian politics. Given the way things are now, our country approaches the position of tributary toward the United States, and with the recent foreign takeovers of some of our oldest national corporations, it's a little disconcerting.

I support Ron Paul because he would reverse the trend of oligarchical tyranny and level the playing field once again. Of course, I personally believe that sort of system never survives as a principle of nature and that it is always bound to fall, but it doesn't hurt to speed up the process. :D

[Bradley in DC]

I'm from finland and got to know Ron Paul on Youtube. I never knew that politicians like him even existed! He is honest!

I think what Europe needs is politicians like Ron Paul. European Union is changing towards stronger federal state and it seems there is nothing we can do. In Finland it is hard to find a good politician even remotely critical of EU and this is really frustrating.

I would like to know if there is any non-American Ron Paul fans here and where are you from?

Hi RPeurope,

Are you familiar with these think tanks there?

DEFENS

Helsinki
FINLAND Phone: 040-521-7744
Web: http://www.defens.fi/
ELINKEINOELäMäN VALTUUSKUNTA

Helsinki
FINLAND Phone: 358-9-686 92 00 112
Fax: 358-9-608 713
Web: http://www.eva.fi

While Ayn Rand may be worth reading, Dr. Paul is better described as an "Austrian" (school of economics) rather than a Randian Objectivist.

Starting here is as good a place as any:
http://www.mises.org/liberal.asp

And welcome!

[kimosabi]

Ok, all you international Ron Paul Supporters, can you please set up Ron Paul Meetup Groups in your country's as well.

We've got 10 Countries with Ron Paul Meetups, but we need lot's more.

This Revolution needs to go international....

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/about/

[SeekLiberty]

Ok, all you international Ron Paul Supporters, can you please set up Ron Paul Meetup Groups in your country's as well.

We've got 10 Countries with Ron Paul Meetups, but we need lot's more.

This Revolution needs to go international....

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/about/

Right on! Freedom and Liberty is something EVERY Individual in EACH Country should be crying out for. It's not like we have a monopoly on the fight for Freedom here in America. lol. We could sure use the will of the entire WORLD population here. :)

We don't need spectators. We need HELP, BIGTIME. HELP!!!

- SL

[Man from La Mancha]

Britain has probably suffered the most regarding the NWO plan implementation. Surveillance cameras everywhere I hear. And many weird new laws to "protect" its citizens. There has been talk of efforts to "harmonize" the North American Union with the EU. I guess if you want to rule the world, it has to all be under one system.



http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-countries-flags/united-nations.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/State_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_USSR_(1958-1991_version).jpg/574px-State_Coat_of_Arms_of_the_USSR_(1958-1991_version).jpg

Roman "Fasces" on the wall behind the Speaker's Podium US House of Representatives chamber, United States Capitol.


.

http://www.img9.org/uploads/7fb22fae415b572e850a91d2fb00e7b1.jpg

Serious questions need to be asked about why the very platform of supposed representative government in the United States is adorned with tributes to Nazi symbols of absolute dictatorial power. The Fasces symbols. The fasces was a symbol of authority in ancient Rome. It was later adopted as an emblem by Mussolini's fascist party during World War two, and is the origin of the word "fascist."

Funny how even the comminist symbol show wheat rolled like a Fasces symbol

.

[SeekLiberty]

Fascists LOVE symbols. They AWAYS leave a signature.

- SL

[RPeurope]

Hi RPeurope,

Are you familiar with these think tanks there?

DEFENS

Helsinki
FINLAND Phone: 040-521-7744
Web: http://www.defens.fi/
ELINKEINOELäMäN VALTUUSKUNTA

Helsinki
FINLAND Phone: 358-9-686 92 00 112
Fax: 358-9-608 713
Web: http://www.eva.fi

While Ayn Rand may be worth reading, Dr. Paul is better described as an "Austrian" (school of economics) rather than a Randian Objectivist.

Starting here is as good a place as any:
http://www.mises.org/liberal.asp

And welcome!
Thanks! I've never heard on DEFENS but I know EVA.

[RPeurope]

Ok, all you international Ron Paul Supporters, can you please set up Ron Paul Meetup Groups in your country's as well.

We've got 10 Countries with Ron Paul Meetups, but we need lot's more.

This Revolution needs to go international....

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/about/
It will be inevitable if Ron Paul gets elected. You can spread the message of freedom only by setting a good example. USA is the most powerful country and I would like it to stay that way. You have a great constitution, stick with it!



Bush, Clinton, Bush... Clinton? You don't wanna make that mistake again, do you?




I see there is a Ron Paul meetup in Iraq? :)

[Gee]

It will be inevitable if Ron Paul gets elected. You can spread the message of freedom only by setting a good example. USA is the most powerful country and I would like it to stay that way. You have a great constitution, stick with it!
Unfortunately, in a country as large, both physically and economically, as America, its hard to actually undo anything. There are too many people with tons and tons of money and vested interests in making sure the system doesn't change. Our constitution is simply held in contempt by most politicians, and I think many of the voters who actually understand it.

I've always thought the reason Europe seems to have been better governed than America in the last 50 years or so was due to smaller countries with more culturally homogeneous populations. Its harder for big economic interests to hijack the government in those cases. But if you guys give the EU more power, that could change :(

I've read a bit of the EU constitution here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/09_01_05_constitution.pdf
Is there any section which specifies what the EU may rule over? I noticed the long section on individual rights, but nothing specifying what exactly the EU could do.

At least they've got a good national anthem. Way better than ours.


USA is the most powerful country and I would like it to stay that way.
This, I think, is at the heart of the problem. People are taught implicitly in school that "powerful" nations are a Good Thing. Few people seem to care whether or not "power" is good for the ordinary citizen. I think power comes from freedom, but its not really a centralized, controllable power which politicians can steer.

[RPeurope]

I've always thought the reason Europe seems to have been better governed than America in the last 50 years or so was due to smaller countries with more culturally homogeneous populations. Its harder for big economic interests to hijack the government in those cases. But if you guys give the EU more power, that could change :(
That is exactly what I'm afraid of.


This, I think, is at the heart of the problem. People are taught implicitly in school that "powerful" nations are a Good Thing. Few people seem to care whether or not "power" is good for the ordinary citizen. I think power comes from freedom, but its not really a centralized, controllable power which politicians can steer.
I agree that centralized power is not a good thing. Centralized power usually means more corruption... when government is less responsible to citizens. But in USA you have great constitution that (should) protect you from the government. I'd like to see USA be the one setting an example to the rest of the world. With Ron Paul as the president :)