Ummmmmm.....hold On

[Rintrah54]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.

[Mortikhi]

Ron doesn't shove his religion in people's faces ala Hucka-my-son-murders-dogs-boo?

edit: hes talking about this more than likely
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=58409

[Hope]

What ad? The only ad I've seen of Ron Paul's that you could be talking about is the one where he wishes everyone happy holidays.

[SophisticatedFarmGirl]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.

Yes, I think that HQ should NOT run the ad! In fact, I am going to leave here and go email them right now. :D

[Taco John]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm.... go away troll......

[Rintrah54]

Perhaps I didnt read it right.....but I was under the impression that the hardcore Christian flyer ad was being sent to the official campaign and that they would endorse it.

If im wrong then we're all good.....otherwise.......not so much.

[Throwback280s]

Yes, I think that HQ should NOT run the ad! In fact, I am going to leave here and go email them right now. :D

That's the last thing you want to do. We NEED the evangelical vote...and this ad is only being sent to pastors and churches. Guys, don't think for a second that if we abandon attempts at educating them on the issues concerning them that we'll win this election.

[jake]

???

he IS the best choice for Christians - Ron Paul lives his life as a Christian NOT using his religion to further a political agenda, unlike snake oil salesman Huckabee

[Tim724]

What is the "we're the best christian" ad?

Are you talking about the "happy holidays" ad (which I think was really unexpected but really great) or the half-hour ad?

[mokkan88]

Paul justified his comments.

[Ethek]

Rons Ideas in no way highlight a hint of facism.

Dr. Paul does not publicly speak about his position. The flyer however is an information piece for people with Christian beliefs. Its fine.

[Rintrah54]

Wtf is wrong with people and the troll thing. F-you taco john. I have been hitting the ground every week making signs, making supervoter packets, sign waving, and calling radio stations.

In short, kiss my ass unless you intend to produce some intelligent argument. In other news...thanks to those of you who did.

[texasbelle]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.

Because trying to prove who is a better Christian is not what Christianity is about. Christianity should not be used as a tool to win elections or disguise fascism. I think Ron Paul comments were spot on.

[RoamZero]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm.... go away troll......

I'm tired of people with contrary concerns on this forum being labeled as trolls. I agree that too much negativity can be bad, but that's not necessarily trolling. Trolling is INTENTIONAL and sometimes the line isn't clear, but its there.

[AcidReign]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.

The media barely gave us coverage for the biggest single day fundraising in history. They won't report this.

[BarryDonegan]

ron paul is obviously christian. he doesn't promote it and expect things from it, which is also christian to do.

[Taco John]

Wtf is wrong with people and the troll thing. F-you taco john. I have been hitting the ground every week making signs, making supervoter packets, sign waving, and calling radio stations.

In short, kiss my ass unless you intend to produce some intelligent argument. In other news...thanks to those of you who did.



People who joined this site in December should think twice about criticizing efforts around here. Get used to the idea that nobody around here wants to hear criticism from newcomers. That's what the deal is with the troll thing.

If you're not a troll, fine. But people are going to have their guard up when a person with no history here starts to offer criticism. And for very good reason...

[uncloned21]

theyre talking about this

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=58409

[fortilite]

If it's a targeted ad, who cares? We have the hightimes ad going on - but most people won't see it. Only smokers will see it.

If you release an ad targeted for Christians in a way that almost exclusively Christians will see it, that is effective. Huck made the mistake of airing his commercial on tv.

Also if it is grassroots, and Paul isn't the one pushing his religion, that helps. If it is Christian supporters endorsing him, that isn't anything like what Huckabee did.





+1 Agnostic for a Christian targeted ad. Just don't run it on tv.

[Rintrah54]

Ok, so apparently some people havent seen the flyer. Its got a picture of Ron Paul with three crosses behind him. Its not even possible to misconstrue that as subliminal.

My point is, its exactly what Ron Paul said he didn't do and my concern is that the official campaign might be funding it......which would be bad in my opinion.

[Rintrah54]

theyre talking about this

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=58409



Ok, so Ron Paul explicitely says "I would never use a cross like that" then his campaign sends out a letter with 3 fricking crosses on it. I see. That makes complete sense.

[integrity]

I don't like those flyers. Are they approved by the official campaign? if not then no worry its just some individual supporters idea.

maybe from now on if people are doing things like these flyers can they put a disclaimer on them like

"this message is from citizens for Ron Paul and is not officially endorsed by Ron Paul for President 2008"

[Rintrah54]

My opinion exactly.

If its funded by the campaign its exactly contrary to his statement today.

[SophisticatedFarmGirl]

As an art student in college, every piece I produced was "critiqued" by the whole class. If you can't deal with this Taco, clearly you are not a mature individual.

The ad in question has three crosses behind a portrait of Dr. Paul. On Fox this morning Dr. Paul said that he would not run an ad with crosses. Here is the problem. We love Dr. Paul for his honesty and consistency. If HQ ran this ad, targeted or no, it could be used to his detriment.

As a "newcomer" in December I hope to see MANY newcomers in January, Feb, March, April , May....all the way to the election.

FOR LIBERTY TO ALL ;)

[Mortikhi]

My opinion exactly.

If its funded by the campaign its exactly contrary to his statement today.
Then it obviously isn't.

[SophisticatedFarmGirl]

Ok, so Ron Paul explicitely says "I would never use a cross like that" then his campaign sends out a letter with 3 fricking crosses on it. I see. That makes complete sense.

To be fair, they were planning this BEFORE he made that statement. Now they will have to decide what to do about it.

[JAlli41]

I think the difference between the flyers and the ad was Huckabee's ad was completely subliminal, I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out, subliminal messages are very dangerous and likely what Dr. Paul was annoyed about, the flyers are pretty open, "I'm a Christian, youre a Christian, here is a cross, vote for me."

[Throwback280s]

I wrote the text for the ad in question. Promagma did the graphics. The official campaign wanted to use it for churches. We cannot afford to neglect the message of the ad. If any changes are needed, it'd be a minor image replacement of the crosses with something else.

Editing the image is one thing, but for people to say we should completely discard the ad while at the same time doing ads for non-interventionists and drug supporters, they're not squaring with reality. This is the REPUBLICAN primary. The evangelical vote is the largest, most influential voter block of them all. To me it is a travesty for them not to learn the facts concerning the issues they care about as this ad does.

[Voluntaryist]

Troll!!!!!!

[integrity]

and put a disclaimer on them"christians for Ron Paul" . they are fine for the purpose you described.

[fortilite]

I am an Agnostic, I have no problem with the ads. They are TARGETED ads placed in TARGETED locations. Targeted ads are the most effective type of advertising you can do. The Christian ads are great. The 2nd amendment rights ads are great. The marijuana legalization ads are great. The peace ads are great. We are putting the right messages in the right places, I commend anyone who makes targeted ads.

Play the numbers, win the game.

[Cardinal Red]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.


Rintrah-- I am not saying you are a troll-- but until you earn your stripes with a good month of solid pro RP comments and suggestions for the campaign, very negative posts such as this one will be treated with great suspicion by your fellow RP Forums posters.

[Taco John]

As an art student in college, every piece I produced was "critiqued" by the whole class. If you can't deal with this Taco, clearly you are not a mature individual.

The ad in question has three crosses behind a portrait of Dr. Paul. On Fox this morning Dr. Paul said that he would not run an ad with crosses. Here is the problem. We love Dr. Paul for his honesty and consistency. If HQ ran this ad, targeted or no, it could be used to his detriment.

As a "newcomer" in December I hope to see MANY newcomers in January, Feb, March, April , May....all the way to the election.

FOR LIBERTY TO ALL ;)




I have no problem with criticism. I have been a critic myself, and took plenty of heat for it in the early going...

There are a lot of newcomers who are trying to bring nothing but negativity to this forum. Some of them embed themselves are Ron Paul supporters, and then come in offering defeatist suggestions, and criticism of others efforts. Indeed, plenty of newcomers are going to be legit. But anyone who is new and wants to offer criticism is going to go through a trial by fire. If they can't handle being criticized themselves, then they should probably limit the criticism that they're offering until they've got a little more credibility... Or weather the criticism knowing that it's going to be expected. (that's what I did)

[Menthol Patch]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.

Get away from here troll!

[SophisticatedFarmGirl]

I wrote the text for the ad in question. Promagma did the graphics. The official campaign wanted to use it for churches. We cannot afford to neglect the message of the ad. If any changes are needed, it'd be a minor image replacement of the crosses with something else.

Editing the image is one thing, but for people to say we should completely discard the ad while at the same time doing ads for non-interventionists and drug supporters, they're not squaring with reality. This is the REPUBLICAN primary. The evangelical vote is the largest, most influential voter block of them all. To me it is a travesty for them not to learn the facts concerning the issues they care about as this ad does.

I think it wise to substitute the crosses with a nice pastoral setting of.......corn. :D

[Ron LOL]

Anybody who evaluates Ron Paul's statement critically rather than simply responding from emotion can plainly see he wasn't calling Christians fascists.

[InRonWeTrust]

We need to get rid of those crosses or we will be hit for hypocrisy, and rightly so. Ron is on the record saying he would not run on religious symbols and on religion in general.

[francisco]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.

First:I find it interesting that you use the the phrase "How do you" instead of "How do we"

Second: What ad are you talking about? Be specific, please. Without knowing what you are talking about, the hypocracy that you allege cannot be debated.

[integrity]

it sucks if RP supporters "cross" the line here. Religion is a volatile subject, easy to insult people.

get rid of the crosses please.

[francisco]

Wtf is wrong with people and the troll thing. F-you taco john. I have been hitting the ground every week making signs, making supervoter packets, sign waving, and calling radio stations.

In short, kiss my ass unless you intend to produce some intelligent argument. In other news...thanks to those of you who did.

Please tell us for which campaign you are performing those activities.

[Throwback280s]

It's open for editing that image but it's up to the campaign to make that decision. Personally, I think we can say goodbye to winning if we're ashamed of posting a cross image on a letter send directly to pastors. What kind of freedom is that? It's not the same as pandering fluff like Huckabee sayings like "I wont part the Red Sea, but I'll part the red tape" It's using an image combined with hard hitting facts to remind evangelicals that there is a man out there who is on their side on the issues they care about.

[Mark Rushmore]

Running those ads as they stand, in light of this morning's comments on Fox, is bordering on political suicide. Regardless of who puts them out there, all it takes is a picture of the flyer on the background on TV with a voiceover of his quote on Fox - and his credibility is tarnished in the public sphere in a way I never thought possible. Hypocrisy is the single worst offense a politician can be guilty of in most peoples books, if they are wrong that's one thing, if they lie that's another - but hypocrisy has no defense, and the appearance of hypocrisy is all it takes to spoil the good Doctors image.

This comment remains true regardless of whether you like the ad or not. If he hadn't made the comment, I would love the ad and find it timely and well-targeted, but politics is fluid, and the lines shifted this morning.

[Throwback280s]

I already notified the people working with the ad after he made those comments to prepare alternative ones without the cross. I personally think it's outrageous to remove a cross from a letter sent to pastors and I don't think Ron Paul would be against it either. He realizes that Huckabee's phony globalist message is wrapped up in Christian symbolism and is therefore shady. But again, the official campaign will decide what to do with the images. It's in their hands now.

[Mark Rushmore]

I already notified the people working with the ad after he made those comments to prepare alternative ones without the cross. I personally think it's outrageous to remove a cross from a letter sent to pastors and I don't think Ron Paul would be against it either. He realizes that Huckabee's phony globalist message is wrapped up in Christian symbolism and is therefore shady. But again, the official campaign will decide what to do with the images. It's in their hands now.

Seeing how nice the ad was, I begin to wish he hadn't made the comment this morning so it might have ran controversy free. But you have to adapt to the situation as it stands, unfortunately while he's made a strong point and set himself apart from Huckabee in the way of his choosing - it does somewhat bind the ability to now sell him in a Christian frame. But it appears apparent that that is a framing he himself does not wish to use.

[SophisticatedFarmGirl]

Running those ads as they stand, in light of this morning's comments on Fox, is bordering on political suicide. Regardless of who puts them out there, all it takes is a picture of the flyer on the background on TV with a voiceover of his quote on Fox - and his credibility is tarnished in the public sphere in a way I never thought possible. Hypocrisy is the single worst offense a politician can be guilty of in most peoples books, if they are wrong that's one thing, if they lie that's another - but hypocrisy has no defense, and the appearance of hypocrisy is all it takes to spoil the good Doctors image.

This comment remains true regardless of whether you like the ad or not. If he hadn't made the comment, I would love the ad and find it timely and well-targeted, but politics is fluid, and the lines shifted this morning.

Well said.

PS. Hey, if I'm a troll, do I get to be one of those cute ones with crazy hair or a stinky, fat ass one with big ears? :eek:

[fortilite]

The ads are still a good idea overall though.

[Taco John]

it sucks if RP supporters "cross" the line here. Religion is a volatile subject, easy to insult people.

get rid of the crosses please.



Christians are't offended by crosses...

[SophisticatedFarmGirl]

I already notified the people working with the ad after he made those comments to prepare alternative ones without the cross. I personally think it's outrageous to remove a cross from a letter sent to pastors and I don't think Ron Paul would be against it either. He realizes that Huckabee's phony globalist message is wrapped up in Christian symbolism and is therefore shady. But again, the official campaign will decide what to do with the images. It's in their hands now.

Thanks for the info.

[justinc.1089]

1. TacoJohn, I'm getting sick of seeing your criticism and negativity on here. I know for a fact you're a supporter, but after you were on television you have gotten a big head. You have been constantly trying to tell everyone how it is and what must be done like you're from the official campaign or something, or like you have a lot of experience to back it up, and generally you have been opposing the majority opinion on here lately. When I first saw you on television you came off as a nerd who stays on a computer a lot, and now with the way you're acting you are still coming off that way to me. No one on here is smarter than the entire grassroots. We have seen the majority opinion make the right decisions again and again.

BUT in this case you're right, however I think you're being an a$$ about it to this person, even if they are a troll, which I doubt personally.

2. The campaign does not need to contradict itself. Paul has said he would not go after votes using religion, so no ads need to do that. If the campaign is about to fund an add with a cross or crosses or any religious imagery or message in it they need to stop, and redo the ad without the religious imagery or message in it.

The ad can still target Christian voters without flat out using religion to do it like Huckabee. Instead of having a cross and implying Paul is the Christian candidate, having a baby or something and saying he is the pro-life candidate would work just as well with Christian voters for example. I mean thats just off the top of my head for a suggestion or example of how it can be changed. There are plenty of ways to target Christian voters without resorting to using religious pictures and religious messages like Huckabee.

[celticsman7]

Ron was referring to the Religious Right, the hardcore Religious Right.

[fortilite]

My advice as someone who did a controversial ad campaign myself:

Listen to realistic constructive criticism, but in the end you have to ignore the naysayers and just go with the ad. Every ad campaign has people on these boards trashing it. If we stopped because of naysayers, nothing would get done.

[Matt]

Running those ads as they stand, in light of this morning's comments on Fox, is bordering on political suicide. Regardless of who puts them out there, all it takes is a picture of the flyer on the background on TV with a voiceover of his quote on Fox - and his credibility is tarnished in the public sphere in a way I never thought possible. Hypocrisy is the single worst offense a politician can be guilty of in most peoples books, if they are wrong that's one thing, if they lie that's another - but hypocrisy has no defense, and the appearance of hypocrisy is all it takes to spoil the good Doctors image.

This comment remains true regardless of whether you like the ad or not. If he hadn't made the comment, I would love the ad and find it timely and well-targeted, but politics is fluid, and the lines shifted this morning.
+1

[Revolution9]

I'm tired of people with contrary concerns on this forum being labeled as trolls. I agree that too much negativity can be bad, but that's not necessarily trolling. Trolling is INTENTIONAL and sometimes the line isn't clear, but its there.

When ya come waltzing through here with yer ass hanging out of your drawers and you have less than a few dozen posts and are posting contentious bullshit.. yeah mofo..yer trolling.

Next..

Randy

[jenninlouisiana]

The comments today have nothing to do with a ron paul ad.

I'm a Christian and I agree 100% with Ron Paul.

[barcop]

How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.

I agree 100%. Running the ad with crosses on it would go completely against Ron Paul's statement today about Huckabee's commercial.

Running the ad with the crosses would be a mistake and if anyone doesn't think the media would pick up on the hypocrisy a make it a negative news story against Ron Paul... well obviously you haven't been paying attention to their treatment of the doctor thus far.

Good call and don't listen to the haters on here who thank they know everything.

Edited to say... otherwise the add is great. And if it wasn't for the comment today the crosses would have been fine.

[Lucid American]

I think the ad itself is the issue here, not just the crosses. It was a great ad, but at the same time, as a Christian, I acknowledge those principles in Ron without touting them explicity.

Huckabee's cross was absolutely intentional and intentionally subliminal. Paul's is overt, but at the same time, anyone who studies Paul knows his Christian morals influence his policies.

[Revolution9]

Ok, so Ron Paul explicitely says "I would never use a cross like that" then his campaign sends out a letter with 3 fricking crosses on it. I see. That makes complete sense.

Regardless of the caterwauling of the clueless around here the campaign is too effing smart to touch a flyer like that. Not that it doesn't do the trick,,but it ain't offishul.

HTH
Randy

[pcosmar]

Earlier this year.

I have never been one who is comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena. In fact, the pandering that typically occurs in the election season I find to be distasteful. But for those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do. I know, as you do, that our freedoms come not from man, but from God. My record of public service reflects my reverence for the Natural Rights with which we have been endowed by a loving Creator.Ron Paul, Statement of Faith.

Today,

RON PAUL: Well, I haven't thought about it completely, but you know, it reminds me of what Sinclair, uh, Lewis once said, he said 'when Fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross.' I don't know whether that's a fair assessment or not, but you wonder about using a cross like he is the only Christian, or implying that subtly. So, uh, I don't think I would ever use anything like that.

[Revolution9]

Rintrah-- I am not saying you are a troll-- but until you earn your stripes with a good month of solid pro RP comments and suggestions for the campaign, very negative posts such as this one will be treated with great suspicion by your fellow RP Forums posters.

Trust the Cardinal..he knows..LOL!

Best Regards
Randy

[Revolution9]

When I first saw you on television you came off as a nerd who stays on a computer a lot, and now with the way you're acting you are still coming off that way to me.

Well... aren't you a prevaricating little snipe. I am a nerd and I will eat your fucking breakfast in person pal.


:cool:
Randy

[LinearChaos]

The crosses are part of a header for an ad meant for Christians, not a subliminal cross to generate press and pander to evangelicals.

[Ronin]

...but you wonder about using a cross like he is the only Christian..

To my knowledge RP has never used the cross like his is the only Christian. Everyone should listen to his later radio interview. He addresses the issue and reasoning behind it.

[Rintrah54]

I feel I'm vindicated here as the topic recieved some THOUGHTFUL discourse from some.

Now to the troll-mongers. You people need to be careful here. We should WELCOME newcomers not shun them when they make CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. If I wasnt such an ardent RP supporter Mr. Taco and his troll-monger supporters would have completely turned me off. I spent half a day deliver super voter packets to Franklin, TN voters in freezing as weather then come to a forum to be labeled a troll.

Suggestion for the troll-mongers:

Consider the stance of the poster and ask yourself "Is this constructive?" I dont think Mr. Taco even considered my stance for a second and instead, here is what I would offer for his thought process.

"RP...NEGATIVE...TROLL"

Newsflash guys.....not everything that we RP supporters come up with is going to be a damn gem. WE NEED DIFFERING VIEWPOINTS.

[integrity]

I am glad you brought this up Rintrah54... personally I am an agnostic and I get really tired of seeing religion playing such a big part in politics.

I think these flyers are pandering, but I realize that many christians might not. I really like RP's message and think its strong without the religious overtones.

This whole religion thing is wearing thin on me. From my point of view religions are a tool of oppressors to control the masses. That has no place in a truly free society.

[jd603]

Troll?


How do you rectify this huge Iowa "We're the best Christian" ad with Ron Pauls comments today. The media will be all OVER the hypocrisy.