Need your help guys.

[EvilTwinkie]

My aunt, who has been around the blogging circle a few times has become fervently neoconservative since bush. She vehemently supports the war. At any rate, our family had a falling out a few years back, partly because of politics. My mom, is way way liberal democrat and her sisters are way right. I almost think they use politics as an excuse.. anyway thats beside the point.

I called my aunt awhile back and confronted her, because I always respected her intelligence. She is one of those types that blames bushs low approval rate on the "liberal media" I told her I supported Ron Paul and she almost lost it. She considers him a dangerous man who should be shot, and its all because of the war issue. The conversation got very heated at points and lasted 4 hours.

At any rate I left not being convinced of her point of view, but told her I would research some of her points. I wont get into any of that now, but suffice to say I didnt drop my support of paul. I dropped in on her blog to notice that I had some affect on her and she posted a little blurb, which I commented on.

I would like suggestions on how to respond to her last comment, sonce Im a bit emotional at the moment and want to cool off.

You can find her blog here:

h ttp://ww w.mrsdutoit.com/index.php/amfarmer/single/3125/

(please copy and paste link)

Thanks for your help.

[Anti Federalist]

My response to another poster in another forum who said "the status quo has kept us safe".

Then why does that same status quo say the next attack is "not a matter of if, but when"?

The ONLY way to "keep us safe" is to address and radically change the insane foreign policy we seem intent to follow over a cliff.

Since the end of WWII it has left millions dead all around the world, it did not prevent a 9/11, it will not in the future, and if we continue it will only be a matter of time before someone preempts US.

We are not the policeman of the world, we do not have the legal, moral or financial resources to be and we are not the enforcement arm of the United Nations.

It is nuts, it is bankrupting us, it is not in the best interests of the United States, it makes us less safe, it is immoral, it is illegal and it must end, now.

[Mr. White]

Someone who believes a man should be shot for voicing his ideas is much more dangerous than the man who voices them. I'm not giving the woman traffic.

[angrydragon]

Show her this...

There are other videos like this, but show her this.

Bush speaks the truth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX-FiXTgKFo

[EvilTwinkie]

Someone who believes a man should be shot for voicing his ideas is much more dangerous than the man who voices them. I'm not giving the woman traffic.


She was quite emotional at the time and im not wholly using that against her as we all have had moments of irrationality at times, so Im giving her the benefit of the doubt on that one. Thanks for replying tho.

[hellah10]

i posted... "Omar"

[Talldude1412]

EvilTwinkie, allow me to give you my best rebuttal to what she has written. If she is as stubborn as you say so be it, but it is best to reason with those so violently opposed to his beliefs in the possibility that they may come to understand our intentions.


I think the best thing Ron Paul could do at this point is participate vigorously in the primaries, get people talking about smaller government, expose his isolationism as deeply flawed, lose graciously, and then go away. I think more likely he will attract anti-war and so called civil-libertarian types from both sides of the aisle, throw a tantrum when he loses in the primaries, declare he is running as an independent, and then spoil the elections for the Republicans.

First, Ron Paul has far to much character and integrity to throw tantrums. She would know this if she researched the man. Especially since no matter the outcome the seeds of his ideas have been planted in our generations minds. She will be hearing about Ron Paul republicans for the rest of her days.

As far as isolationism, she does not understand what his true beliefs on the subject are. (there are hundreds of threads that talk about this argument, and I am burned out on the subject for today unforetunately). But basically Ron Paul believes in peace through strength, but in a way more like Reagen than Bush. He would not support nation building exercises that drain our country of money and cost our greatest Americans lives. Building of nations are to be left to that nations people. Having longstanding military protection treaties with countries is insanity in a constantly changing geopolitical world, thus we remove ourselves from such organizations. This does not mean we would not defend US allies, it simply means that our grandchildren don't have to uphold longstanding treaties if that country is no longer deserving of our protection.

She really does seem like she might be outside of reason. But show her his true policies as best you can.

[hellah10]

Now go off and play with the other Useful Idiots whom you have befriended.

wow... shes not very nice...

[EvilTwinkie]

wow... shes not very nice...

Yep, shes got a bit of a groupthink problem and apparently refuses to listen to other views even to the point of rejecting her family... apparently.

[hellah10]

Oh, gawd. The Paul groupies have found this site.

Sorry, Farmer, I’m closing comments on this post.

I can’t stand these people because of their anti-semitic/dangerous ideas, and won’t (even for you) allow them a platform on this site.

LMAO!

well... mission success! its alot easier when a veteran like myself chimes in WITH THE TRUTH about iraq - it usually shuts people up (no disrespect to your aunt)

[Mr. White]

Just read the gi's comment and now it looks like the comment section is closed. Bluntly, your aunt is a fool. I don't know what transpired between the two of you, and can't tell you how rationally either side argued their points. An Aunt that would cut off contact with a nephew over politics is irrational and ruled by her emotions. Her comparison of us to Nazis was truelly disturbing and evidence that she has a mindset which will not budge. Love the woman, try and maintain a familial bond, and know that it wasn't you, it was her.

[john_anderson_ii]

Well, I wanted to post this, but it won't let me. That's just cowardly! Only letting friendly voices post comments



"What Paul supporters often seem to want is “I want you not to be able to have the government YOU want, in favor of the one I want… even though I’m in the minority.” They want small government that says, “Do what I say!”"

That simply isn't true. I'm a Paul supporter, and I want a government that follows the contract we the people have with our government, The Constitution. According to your comment above, you would like to see a democracy, a flat out rule by mob government where individual rights are trampled in favor of the majorities' will. That is the very essence of the Democratic Party, and it is their goal.

In Ron Paul's mind, no American Government shall ever trample our guaranteed rights as citizens no matter how convenient or politically expedient it would be for the majority in power. When a government can overlook the rights of an individual it has become totalitarian, weather or not it is supported by a powerful minority or a vocal majority. The outcome is always a loss of individual liberty, and eventually the downfall of a free nation.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing the punditry drone on and on about 'isolationism'. I think, as conservatives, we can all agree that we don't need a federal bureaucracy to 'manage' my trade and travel arrangements abroad. I can take care of that myself, thank you very much Mrs. Rice. Bringing the guns home doesn't make us isolationists, it makes us a safer and stronger nation. A foreign policy of intervention, especially in the market, will eventually put us in a state of forced isolationism, whereas foreign nations will find better customers than our government.

When our debts are due, and our currency is trashed, the guns will come home. Our empiricism will end in failure as empires have throughout history. Or we can repair our foreign policy before this happens. For the sake of my children, I've chose the latter.

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

No offense intended my friend but your Aunt is psychotic. I have never seen anyone be that cruel in public to a member of their own family. The best advice I can offer is to really hammer on the rest of your family and cancel this woman's vote out. When Dr. Paul is President and she has even more money and more freedom to spread her hateful diatribes than you can send her a greeting card with a "your welcome for all that extra money" written inside. Wow, I used to be a neo-con but I hav never ever seen anyone that brainwashed and cruel!

[jdmyprez_deo_vindice]

Do you know who she supports? I think this would be great to show to those who think that the neo-con base supports freedom of speech and tolerance. This woman turned her back on her own family over a war for God's sake! That alone speaks volumes about the differences between us and them. There are MANY things and MANY people here who I disagree with on many many issues but no matter what I consider you all my friends and would gladly stand shoulder to shoulder in battle with people like us as opposed to those cowards who would turn their back on me if I blinked too fast. Great, now I am getting worked up.. better go give at least $5 to Ron Paul so I can feel a little better.

[Talldude1412]

Ahhh nuts, we've been blocked! lol

Well here was my rebuttal to her post.


Mrs. du Toit, instead of railing on your nephews “ignorance”, please bring to light what you believe is ignorant. In the least he may be able to come away from this having learned something. Or maybe visa versa.

“Doing something evil out of ignorance or with knowledge is still evil.”
Indeed, what actions of his are evil?

“Really.... I do not want to have anything to do with you anymore. You refuse to crack a history book and will listen to what any charlatan tells you, and in this particular case, very evil Charlatans.”

I am well learned in history, and am a bit of a history buff you might say. I happen to agree with a good deal of Dr. Paul’s ideals. Not all of them mind you, but his beliefs are based on good precedents, namely the ones about returning to the Constitution. What qualms do you have specifically with Dr. Paul’s policies?

“I can’t fix stupid. You are stupid. Your actions are getting our soldiers killed and emboldening our enemies.”

Our enemies are killing our soldiers, not your nephew. Thats a low blow. What is truly emboldening and bolstering our enemies causes are our “nation building” campaigns throughout the middle east, not to mention our support of such vile countries like Saudi Arabia. AQ’s only goal is the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate (this is from the experts on the matter CIA, 9/11 commission report) and they garner their support through the Middle eastern cultural hatred of occupying nations perceived or otherwise. Our enemy is an ideology as much as it is a figure. The only way to remove an ideologies threat is to marginalize it. In this case cutting its support out from under it. Agreed?

“You are actively supporting something that I think is wrong headed in the extreme, and has been proven to be dangerous.”

What is so wrong and dangerous? I would like to think it is because you haven’t really researched Dr. Paul’s stances, but if you see a reasonable chink in his logic I would love to hear it.

“You can’t or won’t see that. That’s fine, so I have chosen not to have any future contact with you because of it.”

At the danger of not minding my own business I offer this advice, do not divide yourself from family because of political differences, there is much more to the world than politics.

I'm sorry she's a might bit irrational. Oh well, move on I suppose!

[Nyte]

Bull shit to the "no offense:... but her whole attitude is offensive.

Instead of wanting to discuss the issues, she just wants to be angry and bury her head in the sand.

I'm sorry that your aunt has decided to put on the blinders and that this has become a devisive issue for your family.

However; this is a civil war and it will divide families. In the end, I pray that we'll become a better nation for the sacrifices we've made and are about to make.

[lasenorita]

Here's a quote for your Aunt.


"With all [our] blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens--a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities."

Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320

Ron Paul advocates all of the above.

[skeet]

She closed comments after one of our Iraq war vets posted. It is a good thing too - I was preparing to tell her about my grandson who was killed outside of Bagdad in 2006. These chicken-hawks have no Idea. This is some kind of fairy tale TV war to them. They have no clue how real this is. It sounds great to be the Big Bad - White hat wearing Good Guys from the west, but in reality .....
Your Aunt is wrong - ask her if it is ok that we pay for this war with our childrens future prosperity - for it will be they that pay the price for it. I hope she likes Chinese food.

[EvilTwinkie]

Seriously thanks for all the support guys. Im grateful for the fact that you all took time out of your day to respond and she closed the comments.

No offense taken, she lives halfway across the country from me and I havent talked to her much in over 5 years after she refused to so much as contact my mom when she got cancer and was in the hospital for very painful radiation. All this because of 'politics' anyway. Im just grateful to her because she did alot for me in my 20s and we used to be very close. Now, obviously because of what she did to my mom I kept my distance.

I was just looking for some damn understanding.

Seriously, I may not know history as well as some people but any ideology that is so convinced of its righteousness as to treat your sisters and nephews as traitors for speaking in disagreement is no ideology I want to be a part of.

Can you imagine if congress worked this way?

"Im sorry sir your ideas are dangerous and anti-semitic! Remove yourself from the floor or we will remove you!"

Sigh, what a day.

I especially appreciate you vets who posted, thank you for taking the time.

[EvilTwinkie]

By the way, she supports Fred Thompson.

[disciple]

Is she religious, and if so what does she believe?

[EvilTwinkie]

Is she religious, and if so what does she believe?


Shes athiest last I checked.

[disciple]

Shes athiest last I checked.


An atheist supporting George Bush' policies, that's a surprise!

[Revolution9]

An atheist supporting George Bush' policies, that's a surprise!

Most likely one of the four percent of the population who are psychopaths. They have a tendency to band together to promote a political system based on the needs of psychopaths..who are NOT human. Though they have learned to play us and act like us to get their ways. They think our emotionality is the biggest weakness in us.

Picture a door, an ax and a fridge of food. You are the door, the food is the goal and the ax will be used to remove you with no remorse to get the food.

Best
Randy

[disciple]

LOL thanks for the analysis Randy, I like the way you think.

[newmedia4ron]

email her this video now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBVHJY-RNSA
(proves Ron Paul's foreign policy is Republican)

[rooteroa]

It's very simple. Your aunt is a bitch and a very scary person. Do not waste your time with her.

[Sandy]

Most likely one of the four percent of the population who are psychopaths. They have a tendency to band together to promote a political system based on the needs of psychopaths..who are NOT human. Though they have learned to play us and act like us to get their ways. They think our emotionality is the biggest weakness in us.

Picture a door, an ax and a fridge of food. You are the door, the food is the goal and the ax will be used to remove you with no remorse to get the food.

Best
Randy

Great analogy. I believe Evil Twinkie, that your Aunt obviously has a bigtime authoritarian personality and some kind of deep rooted disorder. Borderline personality disorder comes to mind, like Joan Crawford. I know someone who I have no doubt has that disorder. Slicing people out of their life for irrational reasons, punishing them, constant denial, mean/hateful, everything is black/white, they can praise you one minute and tear you apart the next, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. They are often very pleasant/charming in public for example, get them behind closed doors and watch out! They are in constant denial of just about anything, and it is said that they were victims of some kind of more intense child abuse, especially sexual. They tend to pick out a scapegoat in a family that they focus their hate and instability on. Does she have children? The person I know was abused, and has made comments that her childhood was too painful to discuss and has only mentioned a few things about her 'crazy' father.

She is unstable, abusive, and not of sound mind. She started cutting off comments after that Vet wrote something, truth and contrary information from people with authority on a subject can't enter her unstable mind. She is also a victim of propaganda (which she latched on to easily and won't give up in order to have a pearly white scapegoat), but then uses ad hominem to call RP supporters 'Nazis'. She doesn't sound like a historian, and doesn't realize the same propaganda used in Germany is being used on her. She wants someone to hurt, she doesn't think it's fair that she's in pain and wants others to suffer. WAR, WAR, WAR!!! This is a big highway she is using to take her frustrations out on innocent people, and is why she cuts people off who don't agree with her. She wants the outside world to mimick the turmoil inside her head, too.

That's my take on her from what you have said.

[Cleaner44]

Let's just restore our Republic and she can thank you later. SHe may be thick skulled but time will prove your case.

[lynnf]

first, great job for getting her to start thinking. it's said that the biggest part of making a correction is to realize that something is wrong, and you've gotten her to make the first step toward that.

perhaps you can eventually get her to realize that the Bush administration, within the first two weeks of office was trying to get their spy program (on citizens) running.

perhaps you can get her to realize that her hero president said "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it's just a GD piece of paper."

perhaps you can get her to realize that her hero president also, in the first months of office, on a planned invasion of Iraq, said (paraphrased): "I don't care how you do it, just get it done."


don't expect her to come around overnight, but keep working on it.

lynn