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View Full Version : What Happened to the Blimps Legal Team???




dante
12-18-2007, 12:26 PM
There is no longer a link to them on the Blimp FrontPage AND I just got an email from the teaparty looking for legal help for the blimp.

alexpasch
12-18-2007, 12:35 PM
There is no longer a link to them on the Blimp FrontPage AND I just got an email from the teaparty looking for legal help for the blimp.

Yeah seriously...talk about lack of info...

Charles Wilson
12-18-2007, 12:38 PM
Is there a legal problem with the blimp? I need to know now before I make my donation.

Oliver
12-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Is there a legal problem with the blimp? I need to know now before I make my donation.

+1

MindStalker
12-18-2007, 12:46 PM
Sounds more like the legal team quit. They haven't been paid yet probably and donations haven't increased. Remember these guys where hired guns not Ron Paul supporters.

Now this is only my guess. I'm not connected with the blimp at all.

philgest
12-18-2007, 12:49 PM
I'm GUESSING that they bailed because not enough funds have been raised to pay their retainer. My GUESS is that the 240K that has been raised thus far goes to the blimp company and salaries for Trevor and others, plus the retainer fees due to the legal team was to have been paid from the money not yet raised...so they probably think we will not raise the 400K by the 20th or 21st and they bailed.
This is just a guess.

alexpasch
12-18-2007, 12:53 PM
I'm GUESSING that they bailed because not enough funds have been raised to pay their retainer. My GUESS is that the 240K that has been raised thus far goes to the blimp company and salaries for Trevor and others, plus the retainer fees due to the legal team was to have been paid from the money not yet raised...so they probably think we will not raise the 400K by the 20th or 21st and they bailed.
This is just a guess.

I hope you're correct. I just want to make sure there is no pending litigation but rather that they just quit for money reasons...

JaredR26
12-18-2007, 12:57 PM
Once again, no real info from the blimp team.

Politeia
12-18-2007, 01:25 PM
There is no longer a link to them on the Blimp FrontPage AND I just got an email from the teaparty looking for legal help for the blimp.

I got the email too, and went and looked at the site, where indeed the former Legal Team link is MIA. I note however that on the "Transparency" page Brad Smith is still listed, with his fee still carefully opaqued (it was originally listed as a $10,000 retainer and $500/hour).

I posted before about my misgivings about the blimp's legal situation (if it was risky enough to require spending a precious $10,000 of supporters' money to hire a lawyer who's a prominent Mitt Romney supporter as "protection", who's to say an enemy couldn't spend more to attack it -- and guess who has that kind of money to spare?), which decided me not to participate. I loved the idea, and still do in principle, but it certainly hasn't turned out as expected (no Boston, no NH, actually grounded due to weather on 12/16), and now it's in trouble -- despite the $10K already spent on a DC lawyer? -- before it's even really gotten off the ground?

The campaign coulda used another $250,000 on the 16th, in my view; and next spring/summer, when the weather's better and we have a real idea where all this is going, would've been a better time to do a blimp. It was a one-day wonder in the press, yeah, but it's not really going to buy all that much more name recognition before the first primaries.

And BTW, I don't really care for being dunned for blimp support because I signed up at TeaParty07.com; mixing the two is bad manners, IMO.

jumpyg1258
12-18-2007, 01:34 PM
Lawyers, hmph. This is why we have to stop lawyers from reaching the white house, all they care about is money which is why we are in the situation we are these days. To me lawyers and liars are the same thing.

kylejack
12-18-2007, 01:38 PM
There is no longer a link to them on the Blimp FrontPage AND I just got an email from the teaparty looking for legal help for the blimp.
I'm going to guess that all the previous indicators are true and the blimp is a giant clusterfuck of a project doomed to eventual catastrophic failure.

seapilot
12-18-2007, 02:21 PM
Cool this might mean that they wont need as much money without the lawyers.

Mckarnin
12-18-2007, 02:39 PM
More information on our need for legal assistance will be forthcoming in the next few days. We have not had any lawyers bail out for lack of payment.

Right now the blimp is still scheduled to depart with both banners on Wednesday 12/19 in the morning and will be heading towards Washington DC/Philadelphia, PA.

michael.byrne
12-18-2007, 02:42 PM
Why we had to guess ? What's happen with transparency ? Can't the spend 5-10 minutes to explain to forumers ? 240 K isn't their money, after all. Damn. I really hate to complain. But those blimp organizers have a serious issue with upfront and straight forward talking.

hillertexas
12-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Why we had to guess ? What's happen with transparency ? Can't the spend 5-10 minutes to explain to forumers ? 240 K isn't their money, after all. Damn. I really hate to complain. But those blimp organizers have a serious issue with upfront and straight forward talking.

+1

Brodown
12-18-2007, 02:48 PM
I'm not really down with the blimp...i think its a cool idea in theory, but it would be better at the end of the day when we are more secure. I personally think its a waste of money and kind of makes us look like kooks. Take yourself outside of the campaign, what would you think? and if its bringing all this trouble might be better to cut our losses now, but then again it could just be a small problem...who knows

michael.byrne
12-18-2007, 02:58 PM
More information on our need for legal assistance will be forthcoming in the next few days. We have not had any lawyers bail out for lack of payment.

Right now the blimp is still scheduled to depart with both banners on Wednesday 12/19 in the morning and will be heading towards Washington DC/Philadelphia, PA.

Then put information in the flightplan. Updating information in the ronpaulblimp should be the top priority.

JaredR26
12-18-2007, 03:34 PM
More information on our need for legal assistance will be forthcoming in the next few days. We have not had any lawyers bail out for lack of payment.

Right now the blimp is still scheduled to depart with both banners on Wednesday 12/19 in the morning and will be heading towards Washington DC/Philadelphia, PA.

More money will be forthcoming when information flows freely. And when we are asked/informed of problems and given input into their solution.

Mckarnin
12-18-2007, 03:43 PM
Then put information in the flightplan. Updating information in the ronpaulblimp should be the top priority.


Our departure tommorow AM has been in the flight plan since yesterday afternoon..if I remember correctly. I also updated the blog: www.RonPaulBlimpBlog.com with more detailed information.

Mckarnin
12-18-2007, 03:44 PM
More money will be forthcoming when information flows freely. And when we are asked/informed of problems and given input into their solution.

We have reached out and asked for help with our problems from the demographic that we need help from right now, lawyers. As soon as we are ready for more help with ideas like promotions, rallying and user friendliness (probably in a few days) we'll ask everyone. Thanks!

JaredR26
12-18-2007, 04:01 PM
We have reached out and asked for help with our problems from the demographic that we need help from right now, lawyers. As soon as we are ready for more help with ideas like promotions, rallying and user friendliness (probably in a few days) we'll ask everyone. Thanks!

No, you didn't. You sent an email to the tea party group. Those who signed up for the tea party didn't sign up for emails about the blimp.

And you haven't provided any information about why something is or even what is needed specifically.

Just like all the other problems, "We'll come up with a solution and you'll accept it" corporation mentality, and then the RP supporters bail you out 2 days before the due date.

This is very frustrating. We need to be involved and have input, and LOTS of it. A blimpographer isn't needed. GPS tracking is implemented in other ways that we don't have to pay for or develop ourselves.

You can't run a project like this like a company, regardless of what it technically is- Any other company would fail attempting something like this.

So you need to appear to us to be a branch of the movement- NOT a company. You need to appear from the outside/legally to be a company.

I was thinking of donating by the 21st. Now I'm not. Change my mind, PLEASE.

QuesoPantera
12-18-2007, 04:06 PM
I want very badly to help the blimp team out with cash, but like many others I have accountability issues. I'm not dumping on the job you're doing, we know you're working your tails off. But this thing is begging for a press secretary or someone dedicated to issuing timely updates and addressing FAQ's as they arise. Get the communication gap figured out and you'll win over a lot more than just me!

JaredR26
12-18-2007, 04:17 PM
I want very badly to help the blimp team out with cash, but like many others I have accountability issues. I'm not dumping on the job you're doing, we know you're working your tails off. But this thing is begging for a press secretary or someone dedicated to issuing timely updates and addressing FAQ's as they arise. Get the communication gap figured out and you'll win over a lot more than just me!

I disagree though, a press secretary is the wrong approach. Their job is to feed a little information to people.

They should involve us in the decisions, the issues, the problems. We can't bring a project together that we are kept out of. Integrate the forums into the decision process for any big decisions.

Charles Wilson
12-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Folks we must have some faith in those managing the blimp. They have done extremely well as far as I can tell under the circumstances. They could not control the weather that prevented them from getting both banners and forced the blimp to cancel the trip to Boston on the 16th for the Tea Party.

We need to cut them some slack and fund this thing -- now. The blimp is the most cost effective advertising vehicle I have ever witnessed. Already the free advertising on the local and national news media is staggering. You cannot buy this kind of advertising. Please do not forget why we are renting the blimp.

I donated another 250.00 dollars this afternoon. I am not a wealthy person but I do have some money coming in, money that will help Ron Paul get elected. He is at the top of my priority list.

As someone posted earlier, if not us, who? if not now, when?

Mckarnin
12-18-2007, 05:12 PM
No, you didn't. You sent an email to the tea party group. Those who signed up for the tea party didn't sign up for emails about the blimp.

And you haven't provided any information about why something is or even what is needed specifically.

Just like all the other problems, "We'll come up with a solution and you'll accept it" corporation mentality, and then the RP supporters bail you out 2 days before the due date.

This is very frustrating. We need to be involved and have input, and LOTS of it. A blimpographer isn't needed. GPS tracking is implemented in other ways that we don't have to pay for or develop ourselves.

You can't run a project like this like a company, regardless of what it technically is- Any other company would fail attempting something like this.

So you need to appear to us to be a branch of the movement- NOT a company. You need to appear from the outside/legally to be a company.

I was thinking of donating by the 21st. Now I'm not. Change my mind, PLEASE.

With legal matters it is often the case that full disclosure is not possible before a settlement has been reached. That is our current situation.

We have made many, many changes already based on customer feedback via emails and based on feedback we received in this forum and on Daily Paul. If we were operating just like a company I would not have spent days answering hundreds of emails in this forum and at Daily Paul from people who often had not only not sponsored the blimp but who were adamantly against it. From the start we have made ourselves answerable to our customers in every way possible and encountered assaults on our honor, our characters and our professional abilities at every turn.

At some point additional feedback is no longer expressing anything new but mere repetition of what we have heard repeatedly. 2/3rds of the emails we have received are re-iterations of the same 5 themes and we have answered those questions ad nauseam. People rarely bother to research the information we have already put out there before asking us questions.

Please understand that we are working hard and have been effective in achieving our goals, the largest of which was getting the blimp funded enough to get airborne.

When people on this forum speak of using volunteers and doing things for free it sounds quite lovely. In fact, when we have approached people asking for help 4 out of 5 "volunteers" can either offer no more than an hour or two a day and require constant feedback and supervision or they tell us to ask for help again when we can pay them. Many people have mentioned computer equipment that is so much better than what we have and they will hook us up with but when we have requested that they email or call us with further information there is rarely a response.

gecko42
12-18-2007, 05:21 PM
Having worked for many non-profits, I can tell you it's difficult to get skilled people to work for free. It's even harder to find people who don't flake, and save you more time than they eat up in supervision.

JaredR26
12-18-2007, 06:48 PM
By all means, be frustrated with me Mckarnin. I don't mind, and you should be because I'm not being fair. But understand the fundamental difference in approach I am talking about.


With legal matters it is often the case that full disclosure is not possible before a settlement has been reached. That is our current situation.


I've never heard of litigation involving SOME disclosure. Full disclosure is not what we are asking for. Any disclosure would be better than: "We need lawyers. Halp!"



We have made many, many changes already based on customer feedback via emails and based on feedback we received in this forum and on Daily Paul. If we were operating just like a company I would not have spent days answering hundreds of emails in this forum and at Daily Paul from people who often had not only not sponsored the blimp but who were adamantly against it. From the start we have made ourselves answerable to our customers in every way possible and encountered assaults on our honor, our characters and our professional abilities at every turn.


I'm glad you have made many changes. And I'm glad you put up with bullcrap from people like me.

But you missed my point. The structure is wrong. Listing us as "customers" is not going to jive with the movement, and its not going to get me to donate.

Technically thats what we are. Call us that if you want, but treat us as if we are a part of a democratic organization where we have a vote on the major issues.

So long as this is your project, we cannot help you. Thats not how the movement behaves. If instead you post the problems here, we will solve them for you.



At some point additional feedback is no longer expressing anything new but mere repetition of what we have heard repeatedly. 2/3rds of the emails we have received are re-iterations of the same 5 themes and we have answered those questions ad nauseam. People rarely bother to research the information we have already put out there before asking us questions.


There's nothing to research on many of the issues. Your team(not necessarily you) made a mistake. We were not consulted on what the banners should say, ever. We were not given the reasons why the banners said what they did(the for profit advertising model) until after they were decided.

What, did you think us incompetent? Are we incapable of working within legal constraints the way you have?

Instead of organizing and running the world, why not simply direct our fury and pretend you did it to the rest of the world?



Please understand that we are working hard and have been effective in achieving our goals, the largest of which was getting the blimp funded enough to get airborne.


I understand that fully, and I appreciate it.

But I made a post describing, quite reasonably, the mistakes that had been made, what needed to be changed for me to donate. A few people agreed with me and then it was ignored.

But the complaints are still there. And I am far from the only one. As long as the internal model you base the structure around is flawed, they will keep coming up, and we will keep being pissed.

The outside world needs to perceive you as an advertising agency that people can buy in to. Thats fine, we are more than capable of working within those constraints.

But WE need to perceive you as a part of the movement. Direct our fury and seek our consult, and the movement will carry through for you, I guarantee it.



When people on this forum speak of using volunteers and doing things for free it sounds quite lovely. In fact, when we have approached people asking for help 4 out of 5 "volunteers" can either offer no more than an hour or two a day and require constant feedback and supervision or they tell us to ask for help again when we can pay them. Many people have mentioned computer equipment that is so much better than what we have and they will hook us up with but when we have requested that they email or call us with further information there is rarely a response.

I understand that. Its not easy. But I think you went about it the wrong way. Try this:
Post the constraints, problems, and goals to us. We will solve them, with our bare hands if we have to. You have 5 people trying to solve hundreds of problems. We have thousands of minds with hundreds of thousands of dollars of resources. INVOLVE us and we WILL deliver.
Like I mentioned, the blimpographer could easily be nixed, hundreds of non-blimpographers have attempted(and gotten) videos of the blimp that outnumber the blimpographer's productions. The capability to track the blimp via GPS is already present on the web. The MOST you would have to do is feed live coordinates in text form to a page on the website.

One of the supporters, just like RonPaulGraphs or PaulCash.slact would grab that data and make it into something fantastic. And it would cost you $300 for the GPS device and another $200 to get it to the server every 5 minutes.

I swear to you, if you are perceived as a part of the movement, we will come through for you. We did before- You needed 120,000 dollars in roughly 2.5 days. And we did it, just like we brought fourth the tea party. Some of us did it begrudgingly because of how things were being decided.

I'm sure you have thousands of problems to solve on a daily basis. Post anything major, and we will deliver.

Don't, and you'll just have to hope we band together for operation bail out the blimp round 2.

Mckarnin
12-18-2007, 07:26 PM
By all means, be frustrated with me Mckarnin. I don't mind, and you should be because I'm not being fair. But understand the fundamental difference in approach I am talking about.



I've never heard of litigation involving SOME disclosure. Full disclosure is not what we are asking for. Any disclosure would be better than: "We need lawyers. Halp!"



I'm glad you have made many changes. And I'm glad you put up with bullcrap from people like me.

But you missed my point. The structure is wrong. Listing us as "customers" is not going to jive with the movement, and its not going to get me to donate.

Technically thats what we are. Call us that if you want, but treat us as if we are a part of a democratic organization where we have a vote on the major issues.

So long as this is your project, we cannot help you. Thats not how the movement behaves. If instead you post the problems here, we will solve them for you.



There's nothing to research on many of the issues. Your team(not necessarily you) made a mistake. We were not consulted on what the banners should say, ever. We were not given the reasons why the banners said what they did(the for profit advertising model) until after they were decided.

What, did you think us incompetent? Are we incapable of working within legal constraints the way you have?

Instead of organizing and running the world, why not simply direct our fury and pretend you did it to the rest of the world?



I understand that fully, and I appreciate it.

But I made a post describing, quite reasonably, the mistakes that had been made, what needed to be changed for me to donate. A few people agreed with me and then it was ignored.

But the complaints are still there. And I am far from the only one. As long as the internal model you base the structure around is flawed, they will keep coming up, and we will keep being pissed.

The outside world needs to perceive you as an advertising agency that people can buy in to. Thats fine, we are more than capable of working within those constraints.

But WE need to perceive you as a part of the movement. Direct our fury and seek our consult, and the movement will carry through for you, I guarantee it.



I understand that. Its not easy. But I think you went about it the wrong way. Try this:
Post the constraints, problems, and goals to us. We will solve them, with our bare hands if we have to. You have 5 people trying to solve hundreds of problems. We have thousands of minds with hundreds of thousands of dollars of resources. INVOLVE us and we WILL deliver.
Like I mentioned, the blimpographer could easily be nixed, hundreds of non-blimpographers have attempted(and gotten) videos of the blimp that outnumber the blimpographer's productions. The capability to track the blimp via GPS is already present on the web. The MOST you would have to do is feed live coordinates in text form to a page on the website.

One of the supporters, just like RonPaulGraphs or PaulCash.slact would grab that data and make it into something fantastic. And it would cost you $300 for the GPS device and another $200 to get it to the server every 5 minutes.

I swear to you, if you are perceived as a part of the movement, we will come through for you. We did before- You needed 120,000 dollars in roughly 2.5 days. And we did it, just like we brought fourth the tea party. Some of us did it begrudgingly because of how things were being decided.

I'm sure you have thousands of problems to solve on a daily basis. Post anything major, and we will deliver.

Don't, and you'll just have to hope we band together for operation bail out the blimp round 2.


I appreciate your thoughtful response to my post. I understand that there are things we could be doing better. We will work towards implementing them in the days and weeks to come. While I can't go into details, suffice it to say that the need for a lawyer is closely tied to something that has been a huge time and energy drain on the project for the last 2 weeks.

Dlynne
12-18-2007, 07:58 PM
McKarein, I'm a lawyer in Texas. While I don'tknow if I can help, I just sent you a pm through this forum with my contact information.

RockHoward
12-18-2007, 08:01 PM
To bad Warron Zevon has passed on. He had a song with the line "Send lawyers, guns and money!" which seems to fit the Liberty Advertising situation pretty well.

Good luck and safe flying!

Doriath
12-18-2007, 08:07 PM
To bad Warron Zevon has passed on. He had a song with the line "Send lawyers, guns and money!" which seems to fit the Liberty Advertising situation pretty well.

Good luck and safe flying!

+1!

HOLLYWOOD
12-18-2007, 08:15 PM
If you did this right, the people with the connections could of gotten this whole project flying MUCH HIGHER.

Legal Council

Marketing Depts/companies

Media experts


But the trust was put in people that learn as they go... and that doesn't work with TIME LINES and CANDIDACIES!

Next time... reach out to everyone... let the people most qualified do the job... and remember, volunteers don't necessarily equal success. Advertise for the professionals to do it!

IMMEDIATE Actions:

Reach Out for a LEGAL TEAM to donate their services...

REACH Out for donations around the country, not just on the RP forum...

REACH OUT for Professionals, no EGO amateurs to run the show.

GET A MARKETING COMPANY and/or PROFESSIONALS for ADVISE/Operations.

SHEESH, Done this a gazillion times... simple

So... GET BLIMP HELP ASAP!

JaredR26
12-18-2007, 08:59 PM
If you did this right, the people with the connections could of gotten this whole project flying MUCH HIGHER.

Legal Council

Marketing Depts/companies

Media experts


But the trust was put in people that learn as they go... and that doesn't work with TIME LINES and CANDIDACIES!

Next time... reach out to everyone... let the people most qualified do the job... and remember, volunteers don't necessarily equal success. Advertise for the professionals to do it!

IMMEDIATE Actions:

Reach Out for a LEGAL TEAM to donate their services...

REACH Out for donations around the country, not just on the RP forum...

REACH OUT for Professionals, no EGO amateurs to run the show.

GET A MARKETING COMPANY and/or PROFESSIONALS for ADVISE/Operations.

SHEESH, Done this a gazillion times... simple

So... GET BLIMP HELP ASAP!

See thats the thing though... They think they did. But I never saw the problems listed for us to help solve.

BeFranklin
12-18-2007, 09:04 PM
//

BeFranklin
12-18-2007, 09:08 PM
Why we had to guess ? What's happen with transparency ? Can't the spend 5-10 minutes to explain to forumers ? 240 K isn't their money, after all. Damn. I really hate to complain. But those blimp organizers have a serious issue with upfront and straight forward talking.

Is it 240 or 270k? Previously, they were counting wire transfers separately.

BeFranklin
12-18-2007, 09:12 PM
We have reached out and asked for help with our problems from the demographic that we need help from right now, lawyers. As soon as we are ready for more help with ideas like promotions, rallying and user friendliness (probably in a few days) we'll ask everyone. Thanks!

I know, its the biggest project ever, and will go down in History .

I was kind of impressed too, when I thought grass roots was doing it.

BeFranklin
12-18-2007, 09:21 PM
Wait, the legal team is listed on the site again! And that would be the end of my questioning, but someone else pointed out they were asking for legal help for the blimp on the tea party email in this thread, which I can't really understand if they have a whole team of lawyers.

How many lawyers does it take to keep a blimp up in the air anyway? Lol! Geeze. Man.

webaform
12-18-2007, 09:22 PM
trademarks? incorporating? yay, speculation

..not looking for anything from the blimp team. Rampant speculation would be nice though.

noztnac
12-18-2007, 09:25 PM
They don't need lawyers anyway. Anything the FEC tries to do will happen after the election. At that point who cares?

dhendrix
12-18-2007, 10:40 PM
IMHO, the Blimp team has done a fantastic job coming up with a novel publicity stunt, raising funds, getting cooperation from industry, and doing the work to get the blimp off the ground. The Blimp has already been cited dozens of times in the few articles I've read and scenes from TV news I've seen in the past week or so and will continue to be an icon of our strength. If it stays in the air, that is.

And yes, I know of the fraudulent sites out there trying to gain money by luring donors. You can do a WHOIS ( http://www.whois.corenic.net/query.jsf ) on ronpaulblimp.com, you can ask folks organizing major events. I'm not convinced of any seedy or neglectful actions taken by the Blimp team that could harm the campaign.

I'm behind them 100%. We need to keep this project alive!

dante
12-19-2007, 12:00 AM
My problem is this... a random request for legal help... well first of all what kind of legal help... there are thousands of people who read this forum / got that email... and while many of us might not be lawyers we might very well know someone who can help you / would be willing to help solve your problem... but if I don't know the problem I am not going to go talk to my 3 lawyer connections about the blimp needing random legal help.

UNLEASH the creativity and resourcefulness of the grassroots DON'T cripple it by lack of real communication.

steph3n
12-19-2007, 01:20 AM
about lawyers, I can tell you the media WAS calling Brad a LOT and although that seems like free advertising for him.....sometimes it is billed in my experience :(

I do hope not.

Malum Prohibitum
12-19-2007, 02:15 AM
McKarnin,

Im a 3L at a large law school in California. Obviously since Im not an attorney, I cant do any work for you directly, but I may know someone who is qualified and willing to help and I will be happy to make some phone calls for you all if it will help.

Also, if you already have an attorney, I may be able to help lighten his load with research, etc... as a volunteer.

I sent you a PM. Let me know if I can help.

Mckarnin
12-19-2007, 03:19 AM
McKarnin,

Im a 3L at a large law school in California. Obviously since Im not an attorney, I cant do any work for you directly, but I may know someone who is qualified and willing to help and I will be happy to make some phone calls for you all if it will help.

Also, if you already have an attorney, I may be able to help lighten his load with research, etc... as a volunteer.

I sent you a PM. Let me know if I can help.

Thanks!

TheNewYorker
12-19-2007, 03:30 AM
While I can't go into details, suffice it to say that the need for a lawyer is closely tied to something that has been a huge time and energy drain on the project for the last 2 weeks.

Ahh I see, I think I figured it out; you're suing the people that couldn't get the banner shipped to you on time and caused the blimp launch to be delayed. You mentioned a "settlement" in an earlier post, I suppose you're looking for a settlement in the form of a refund or such for the money spent by you on the banner.

Tarzan
12-19-2007, 03:31 AM
Ahh I see, I think I figured it out; you're suing the people that couldn't get the banner shipped to you on time and caused the blimp launch to be delayed. You mentioned a "settlement" in an earlier post, I suppose you're looking for a settlement in the form of a refund or such for the money spent by you on the banner.

Wrong... The folks that did the banners deserve a medal for their efforts!

http://ronpaulideas.com/images/signatureblimp.png (http://RonPaulBlimp.com/)

JaredR26
12-19-2007, 04:20 AM
Wrong... The folks that did the banners deserve a medal for their efforts!

http://ronpaulideas.com/images/signatureblimp.png (http://RonPaulBlimp.com/)

Uh... yeah

The people who were trying to get us the banner did a fantastic job. They kept us informed almost the entire way, and rushed a monthlong job in a week.

Lacrosseus
12-19-2007, 04:25 AM
I appreciate your thoughtful response to my post. I understand that there are things we could be doing better. We will work towards implementing them in the days and weeks to come. While I can't go into details, suffice it to say that the need for a lawyer is closely tied to something that has been a huge time and energy drain on the project for the last 2 weeks.

Ugh... if it is not one thing, it is another.

LibertyEagle
12-19-2007, 07:27 AM
about lawyers, I can tell you the media WAS calling Brad a LOT and although that seems like free advertising for him.....sometimes it is billed in my experience :(

I do hope not.

ALL THE TIME, it's billed. Uh oh. Wasn't a good idea to publicize his contact info.

Joe Schwartz
12-20-2007, 12:10 AM
If the legal help is needed for free-speech or campaign finance issues, please contact the Institute for Justice (ij.org (http://ij.org/)). They're a non-profit legal organization that fights for libertarian causes.

Cyclone
12-20-2007, 12:49 AM
With legal matters it is often the case that full disclosure is not possible before a settlement has been reached. That is our current situation.



So who is suing you and for what? And how much is that going to cost everyone who donates to this down the drain project? You are not being forthcoming, you mention the fact that you have legal troubles, again, Trevor uses the Tea Party email list to solicit donations for this cause, something he came in here crying on his hands and knees swearing he would never do again, and on top of all that, he forgot to send out the email on the tea party day, and then you blimp folks come in here and beg for money on the Tea Party night. You have some nerve.

And again, the only ones thrilled to death with the way you have handled everything are the people who joined in Nov. 2007. Fascinating.

So, you want full cash, without any disclosure. Good luck.

To those of you out there that are thinking about throwing more money after this, beware, you could be throwing money into a pit that goes toward nothing but a cash settlement with people who are suing them. It is possible, that not one dime of your money will go to getting the blimp in the air.

And didn't they get all they supposedly needed for at least a month and couldn't keep it running for more than a few days?

I can't know if anything I am saying is correct because they are not being forthright and again, Trevor has lied to us.

So you all trust them if you like. I am only here to try to protect a few folks from getting burned on this project.

But I do not like a company that begs for money on the 16th and then a few days later tells us they need lawyers FAST and then we find out they have had serious legal troubles for two weeks. That is certainly not transparency. That is not honest. Settlement huh? That implies that they are trying to avoid more legal troubles. If they were the ones doing the suing, they could take their time, and they would not have picked now, when they have so much else going on to file a lawsuit, so it must be them that are being sued.

So this settlement is going to cost them a lot of money. Do you all want to pay to get them out of legal trouble? Because they are not telling you how much they need, so it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Think about it before you spend another dime on the project. And these November folks who are so anxious to send in more money are either incredibly gullible or they are trying to get you to have faith in a project when they could be the ones who are being paid for this project.

Be very careful. All this time they have had legal troubles and they never bothered to disclose it, yet they have been taking money for the blimp all along. Looks like they may have more legal troubles in the future.

RickNHouston
12-20-2007, 01:23 AM
I want very badly to help the blimp team out with cash, but like many others I have accountability issues. I'm not dumping on the job you're doing, we know you're working your tails off. But this thing is begging for a press secretary or someone dedicated to issuing timely updates and addressing FAQ's as they arise. Get the communication gap figured out and you'll win over a lot more than just me!

...and that doesn't mean a talking head, either! we have plenty of those in washington already! The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, ma'am!

RickNHouston
12-20-2007, 01:32 AM
IMHO, the Blimp team has done a fantastic job coming up with a novel publicity stunt, raising funds, getting cooperation from industry, and doing the work to get the blimp off the ground. The Blimp has already been cited dozens of times in the few articles I've read and scenes from TV news I've seen in the past week or so and will continue to be an icon of our strength. If it stays in the air, that is.

And yes, I know of the fraudulent sites out there trying to gain money by luring donors. You can do a WHOIS ( http://www.whois.corenic.net/query.jsf ) on ronpaulblimp.com, you can ask folks organizing major events. I'm not convinced of any seedy or neglectful actions taken by the Blimp team that could harm the campaign.

I'm behind them 100%. We need to keep this project alive!

Then put "your money" where your mouth is and write them a check! Mine has a hold on it till I get the information I need, sorry!

RickNHouston
12-20-2007, 01:44 AM
So who is suing you and for what? And how much is that going to cost everyone who donates to this down the drain project? You are not being forthcoming, you mention the fact that you have legal troubles, again, Trevor uses the Tea Party email list to solicit donations for this cause, something he came in here crying on his hands and knees swearing he would never do again, and on top of all that, he forgot to send out the email on the tea party day, and then you blimp folks come in here and beg for money on the Tea Party night. You have some nerve.

And again, the only ones thrilled to death with the way you have handled everything are the people who joined in Nov. 2007. Fascinating.

So, you want full cash, without any disclosure. Good luck.

To those of you out there that are thinking about throwing more money after this, beware, you could be throwing money into a pit that goes toward nothing but a cash settlement with people who are suing them. It is possible, that not one dime of your money will go to getting the blimp in the air.

And didn't they get all they supposedly needed for at least a month and couldn't keep it running for more than a few days?

I can't know if anything I am saying is correct because they are not being forthright and again, Trevor has lied to us.

So you all trust them if you like. I am only here to try to protect a few folks from getting burned on this project.

But I do not like a company that begs for money on the 16th and then a few days later tells us they need lawyers FAST and then we find out they have had serious legal troubles for two weeks. That is certainly not transparency. That is not honest. Settlement huh? That implies that they are trying to avoid more legal troubles. If they were the ones doing the suing, they could take their time, and they would not have picked now, when they have so much else going on to file a lawsuit, so it must be them that are being sued.

So this settlement is going to cost them a lot of money. Do you all want to pay to get them out of legal trouble? Because they are not telling you how much they need, so it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Think about it before you spend another dime on the project. And these November folks who are so anxious to send in more money are either incredibly gullible or they are trying to get you to have faith in a project when they could be the ones who are being paid for this project.

Be very careful. All this time they have had legal troubles and they never bothered to disclose it, yet they have been taking money for the blimp all along. Looks like they may have more legal troubles in the future.


well ... i, for one don't go along with any of this for the simple reason that even if they had been sued the process of service of the original petition takes up to 21 days plus a monday and answering the petition another 21 days plus a monday and the blimp concept isnt even that old yet and any kind of a settlement ur taking 6 mos to a year, even if you could find a judge totake it on as an emergency hearing ... im betting that court dockets in the east are as back logged as we are in texas soooooooo ... to my way of thinking u guys are way off base as far as "settlement" goes!

texasliberty
12-20-2007, 01:44 AM
To those of you out there that are thinking about throwing more money after this, beware, you could be throwing money into a pit that goes toward nothing but a cash settlement with people who are suing them. It is possible, that not one dime of your money will go to getting the blimp in the air. [....]
So you all trust them if you like. I am only here to try to protect a few folks from getting burned on this project.
[....]
Think about it before you spend another dime on the project. And these November folks who are so anxious to send in more money are either incredibly gullible or they are trying to get you to have faith in a project when they could be the ones who are being paid for this project.
.

Let's call it like it is, shall we? You are here to keep the Blimp from continuing to fly. You, and those like you, are going to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt in every post. You're either paid by your masters to do that, or you sure should be. You probably haven't contributed a dime to the project, like all of the other "Senior members" (i.e. frequent posters) who also haven't but are devoting hours a day and zillions of posts to keeping anyone else from putting their money at peril. This is, of course, out of your deep concern for other people's financial investment. Sure. And somehow the people actually backing this project don't appreciate your kind assistance! Imagine!

And why is this happening?

Because the Blimp is actually working. Because the people you're maligning just helped raise a record amount of money for Ron Paul. Because Guiliani is suddenly no longer the Republican front runner in today's news (that has to hurt, so sorry). Because 100,000 people suddenly donated to Ron Paul. Because. You. Are. Losing. Control.

And I am deeply, deeply happy to be a part of that.

The Blimp is flying and it's gonna stay flying. Unlimited donations, operatives. Unlimited. You were screwed the minute that that LLC formed and we figured out how to get out of the box you had us in. You'll do your worst, but we'll form another if we have to, and other after that. It's a fair fight now. Unlimited. And you can't win a fair fight, can you?

You know who you are, and a lot of us know it too. F*ck you, Frank.

Fly the Blimp.

RickNHouston
12-20-2007, 01:51 AM
Thanks!

Can you plz PM me to let me know what type of counsel you require? Both my kids are atty's in family/personal injury/criminal practice in Houston. He is president of the county bar and if cant help u perhaps he has knowledge that someone that can.

LibertyEagle
12-20-2007, 02:55 AM
Let's call it like it is, shall we? You are here to keep the Blimp from continuing to fly. You, and those like you, are going to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt in every post. You're either paid by your masters to do that, or you sure should be. You probably haven't contributed a dime to the project, like all of the other "Senior members" (i.e. frequent posters) who also haven't but are devoting hours a day and zillions of posts to keeping anyone else from putting their money at peril. This is, of course, out of your deep concern for other people's financial investment. Sure. And somehow the people actually backing this project don't appreciate your kind assistance! Imagine!



So basically, you don't want anyone to ask questions about the blimp. Too bad. Then, you go on to insult Cyclone, because he/she had the sheer audacity to do so. Even to the point of questioning her/his contribution to the campaign. For your information, Cyclone has done more work for this campaign than you could hope to do in 5 years time!

This whole thing should be really easy to clear up. The blimp organization just needs to answer the questions and then all this uneasiness will be over.



The Blimp is flying and it's gonna stay flying. Unlimited donations, operatives. Unlimited. You were screwed the minute that that LLC formed and we figured out how to get out of the box you had us in. You'll do your worst, but we'll form another if we have to, and other after that. It's a fair fight now. Unlimited. And you can't win a fair fight, can you?

You know who you are, and a lot of us know it too.

What the hell are you talking about? WHO forced them to form an LLC? THEY CHOSE TO DO THAT!

Do you live in conspiracy land or what?

LibertyEagle
12-20-2007, 03:04 AM
C'mon NewEnd. You know as well as I do, that there are a couple of questions that need to be answered. That's all. It shouldn't be a big deal.

NewEnd
12-20-2007, 03:09 AM
C'mon NewEnd. You know as well as I do, that there are a couple of questions that need to be answered. That's all. It shouldn't be a big deal.

Not in the manner Cyclone or Chestertime present their questions.
No money should be donated if it bothers you, but I cannot stand the amount of disrespect I am seeing come from some people on these forums, treating a volunteer like a god damned slave.

It's fucking bullshit. Fucking steaming stinking bullshit.


Tossing around uselsess accusations and wild innuendo every second they get....
... how many posts did Cyclone post on Dec 16th... where is trevor? Where is his Email? WtF? WTF... where is Trevor? Just look at his post history... all the guy does is bitch about Trevor or the blimp, that's the pathetic troll's life on these baords.... look at his history.

LibertyEagle
12-20-2007, 03:11 AM
Ok, but what you wrote was out of line. You know that.

NewEnd
12-20-2007, 03:13 AM
Ok, but what you wrote was out of line. You know that.


No it isn't.. I am sick of Cyclone, and his worthless accusations, and wild speculations, and the way he has constanlty treated this project. He is broker than a joke, but has some huge interest in keeping other peoples money from not reaching the Blimp.

He never wanted anything to do with the project but spread FUD. Nothing more.

Cyclone thinks there are a bunch of "Nov 2007" member in on this little scam,*
* he could be wrong, but.. look out folks!!! SCAM SCAM

Some cyclone quotes

some of us could use some answers before we jump into this.
Wow, cyclone, sounds liek you were considering donating... NOT!


grass roots are just slaves and the great mr. lyman deserves our money
"OUR"... you aint donating shit, Cyclone, you never planned to, and you never wanted to.



He has repeatedly called it a scam, therefore calling trevor and Elijah and the other folks scam artists. How he has gotten away with all this slander and is still allowed ot post here is beyond me.

The blimp should start a new forum, and to give ideas, you HAVE TO donate. to ask questions, YOU HAVE to send in a cashiers check, that will clear once your questions have been satisfied.

Then we can avoid all these two-bit consumer advocates.

MindStalker
12-20-2007, 09:22 AM
My guess:
Ok, as long as we are taking guesses in what is happening with the blimp and legal issues. I'm going to throw out a crazy proposition.
Someone wants to drop a cool million or so on the blimp but wants a contract and management control???? Maybe.. we can only hope.

Cyclone
12-21-2007, 07:35 AM
well ... i, for one don't go along with any of this for the simple reason that even if they had been sued the process of service of the original petition takes up to 21 days plus a monday and answering the petition another 21 days plus a monday and the blimp concept isnt even that old yet and any kind of a settlement ur taking 6 mos to a year, even if you could find a judge totake it on as an emergency hearing ... im betting that court dockets in the east are as back logged as we are in texas soooooooo ... to my way of thinking u guys are way off base as far as "settlement" goes!

I didn't use that word, McKarnin did. And it takes a few minutes to file a lawsuit, which obviously was done a long time ago and you can settle one ten minutes after it comes in the door if you like. You obviously don't practice law.

You can settle a lawsuit before you even file an answer, in fact, in many cases, people do. Filing the answer is expensive and so to avoid even that much of a cost the two parties can settle. And you don't need a judge to take anything on an emergency hearing. The two parties settle and then the person withdraws the lawsuit and no judge has ever been involved.

Dude, it ain't like Law and Order out here in the real world. I don't know what TV show you are getting your info from, but it is way off base.

And again, I didn't say a word about settlement, McKarnin did. She came on here and said they were tied up in a settlement for the past few weeks. Don't blame me.

Get your facts straight before you jump on me, and learn a little more law so you can actually know what you are talking about. Nice bluff though. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=657902&highlight=settlement#post657902

Cyclone
12-21-2007, 07:54 AM
As far as who I am supporting: Ron Paul. Have you all forgotten about him? That is the guy I support and if this blimp project is going to be a big black hole where hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions are going to be spent and taken away from the campaign, then you are damn right I am going to say something about it.

I am not here to support Trevor. I don't care about Trevor.

If you all want to start trevorlymanforums.com go ahead. But here, we have Ron Paul supporters and Ron Paul supporters look out for one another and bring up questions that need answering.

Now you can bury your head in the sand if you like and you can spend you money on whatever you like, but when I see my friends being lied to and tricked, I say something.

If you don't like it, tough luck.

I have worked night and day for this campaign since its inception. Since then I have seen this forum get full of trolls that are doing their best to hurt this campaign. You have the nerve to complain because I was one of the ones that got Trevor out of bed to send out the emails he should have sent out the night before the Tea Party? Wow. You really are at the wrong website. This is not the Trevor Lyman page. This is the place we all help Ron Paul.

Now, this blimp thing has been fishy from the start, the rules of the game have changed as often as the weather and now we find out from McKarnin that they are working on settling a lawsuit. Her words, not mine. If she had any disclosure, she would tell us all the name of the case and let us read the complaint.

If that law student is still around here, we could use a person with free Westlaw access to look it up if they can. The case was most likely filed in North Carolina, but you never know.

It would be interesting to read the complaint.

But for some reason a public complaint must remain private until all donations are in.

You don't think that is cause for concern?

And who owns the company? I don't see a name anywhere on that site. You would think it would be on the front page. Shouldn't people know who they are donating to or is that a question that belies trust and must be removed?

Fine, go ahead and give your money to the cause. I am going to continue to support Dr. Ron Paul and if that means protecting him from people who are not being forthwith and trying to fund causes without full disclosure, you bet I am going to speak up.

It seems very few others have the stones around here to do so.

Cyclone
12-21-2007, 08:50 PM
So, has anyone heard what this "settlement" is all about yet?

Cyclone
12-23-2007, 07:34 AM
Hello? How come no answer as to what the settlement is about? Is any of the money you are receiving now going to be used to settle that lawsuit? How can we know if you won't answer this question?

Cyclone
12-23-2007, 08:28 PM
Ok, so why is no one answering the question about what lawsuit is pending and what is going on with the settlement.

Why is the name Liberty Political Advertising no where to be found on any paperwork if you make a blimp donation?

I thought the reason to have the company was to be able to get around FEC regs. If the company name is no longer on any documents, then how are you able to accept money under a different account name (the Ron Paul Blimp Tour) and how are the donors going to be protected from violating FEC rules if the company name is no longer on any documents when they donate?

In most legal things if a thing is not in writing it doesn't exist. So the fact that the name of the company no longer appears on any documents if you make a donation, nor does it appear on any page of the website is cause for concern.

Will you please address these issues?

Cyclone
12-25-2007, 02:44 PM
If anyone is confused, let me explain something. Four days ago I asked a question. No response. So why I am being such a pest about this? Because no one has answered any questions. If this is the Q & A section, where are all the As? I see lots of Qs. Plus, I see Tarzan of the Blimp team has been here all four of those days and yet no one comes over here to answer anything. So we ask questions over there that are ignored as well. Doesn't it look suspicious to anyone that the blimp team is hiding from all of these questions?

You have a man over here waiting to write a five thousand dollar check but no one is willing to answer any of his questions. It is not as if the blimp folks are not around. They are here. So, what gives?

Man from La Mancha
12-25-2007, 03:06 PM
If anyone is confused, let me explain something. Four days ago I asked a question. No response. So why I am being such a pest about this? Because no one has answered any questions. If this is the Q & A section, where are all the As? I see lots of Qs. Plus, I see Tarzan of the Blimp team has been here all four of those days and yet no one comes over here to answer anything. So we ask questions over there that are ignored as well. Doesn't it look suspicious to anyone that the blimp team is hiding from all of these questions?

You have a man over here waiting to write a five thousand dollar check but no one is willing to answer any of his questions. It is not as if the blimp folks are not around. They are here. So, what gives?Maybe its personal they just don't like you, as a downer

.

NerveShocker
12-25-2007, 04:13 PM
lol, thats likely from what I've been reading. I wouldn't respond to somebody like that either. :o
Funny how cyclone put 3 posts in a row.. I guess he doesn't even care if people take him seriously... lol. ;/

pacelli
12-25-2007, 04:21 PM
If there is indeed a pending issue, that information should be available to the public from the appropriate office.