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View Full Version : RP must directly attack Huckster and Romney




max
12-17-2007, 09:29 PM
hard hitting TV commercials agaisnt the Hucskter and Romney would give RP credibility...By forcing the "front runners" to defend themselves against his attacks, he establishs himself as a player

N13
12-17-2007, 09:32 PM
I think RP should stick to his own message.

As soon as you go in attack mode, you are showing signs of desperation. Think about the other candidates who have resorted to this tactic and what happened.

The best position is to be the one who is being attacked. That tells the voters who is winning.

realist
12-17-2007, 09:34 PM
I agree but their may not be enough time and it's not our style. I fear we're going to have to get comfortable with those tactics going forward. My hope is that we get that chance.

There's little debate about the effectiveness of attack ads. They work and will be used against us. As long as the ads are accurate and truthful, I don't have a problem with them. Their usually most problematic for those with baggage- this is an advantage we will need at some point.

Johncjackson
12-17-2007, 09:34 PM
You let the other guys destroy each other and you rise up and emerge on the other side of their mess. No reason to get into it yourself.

TheIndependent
12-17-2007, 09:35 PM
He needs to hit the voter's hearts.

literatim
12-17-2007, 09:35 PM
Let's start a PAC and do it ourselves instead.

Oliver
12-17-2007, 09:36 PM
Exactly. And it wouldn't be what Ron stands for
to get into mudslinging ... So don't give Ron a
bad name by even mentioning it in here for
the hostile fence sitters...

Thank you!

bulloncoins
12-17-2007, 09:39 PM
I read in the paper that the campaign had brought 2 people into Iowa to do a media number on Huckabee. I was surprised, but I am sure they are only there to spread the truth of his record as governor.

max
12-17-2007, 09:40 PM
u have all bought into an MSM myth that negative ads dont work...

History proves otherwise...The aggressor wins

Show me a presidential candidate who did not attack and I'll show u a loser

1964...LBJ attacked a passive Goldwater as a warmonger (lol)......He won

1988..Bush Sr. attacked a passive Dukakis for paroling a rapist murderer...He won

1992...Clinton attacked Bush for breaking his "read my lips, no new taxes pledge"...He won

1976....Carter attacked a Ford over his pardon of Nixon....He won

1989...Reagan attacked Carter on communism ...He won

1992..Buchanan attacked Dole RELENTLESSLY in NH...He won

2004...Bush's proxies attacked Kerry's war record....He won

Yall keep deluding yourself with this "play nice" garbage and see where we end up.

noztnac
12-17-2007, 09:41 PM
I disagree. Ron Paul should stay above the fray and let those clowns slash each other to ribbons. BUT:

We should certainly attack Romney and Huckabee. And one of the best ways is to give both of them accurate info about each other.

Driftar
12-17-2007, 09:41 PM
I think we should let them beat each other with their own money. I think Paul's only problem is name reconigition. The more people who know his name, the more supporters he gets! Let those guys beat each other down- they don't have a popular message- and their hardest of hardcore supporters won't change their mind based on an attack ad. Positive messages in Iowa = name rec.

noztnac
12-17-2007, 09:42 PM
Note the change in 2004.

That's why we need to do the attacking here at the grassroots.

Oliver
12-17-2007, 09:44 PM
Note the change in 2004.

That's why we need to do the attacking here at the grassroots.


No, we don't have to attack anyone. The other
"Frontrunner" will do so - don't drag Ron's good
name into the mud for stupid Bull.

Thank you!

bulloncoins
12-17-2007, 09:46 PM
I read in the paper that the campaign had brought 2 people into Iowa to do a media number on Huckabee. I was surprised, but I am sure they are only there to spread the truth of his record as governor.

Yes, found it......here is the link from 12/14/07

Houston Chronicle:

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2007_4477777

max
12-17-2007, 09:46 PM
No, we don't have to attack anyone. The other
"Frontrunner" will do so - don't drag Ron's good
name into the mud for stupid Bull.

Thank you!

tell me...how is it "mud slinging" to give out ACCURATE information to voters that have been kept in the dark by MSM???

Oliver
12-17-2007, 09:48 PM
tell me...how is it "mud slinging" to give out ACCURATE information to voters that have been kept in the dark by MSM???

Would Ron Paul support that? No.
Everything else doesn't matter. Simple as that.

Investing our thoughts in positive ways will
help us out. Not whining and crying for mud.

N13
12-17-2007, 09:48 PM
There can be no doubt that attacking the enemy works, but if BMPs are applied to this situation it seems better to let the 5 stooges spin their wheels knocking themselves out. Meanwhile, Ron Paul's campaign can continue with its proven strategy of increasing its base of support at the grass roots level. To do it right, you need one target and that will occur after RP wins the nomination.

Highstreet
12-17-2007, 09:52 PM
hard hitting TV commercials agaisnt the Hucskter and Romney would give RP credibility...By forcing the "front runners" to defend themselves against his attacks, he establishs himself as a player

If you want attack ads, use 527's and PACs.

This is the lesson of Swift Boating. Some organization not associated may make the attack ads, so the campaign can claim to be above the fray.

realist
12-17-2007, 09:54 PM
Oliver,

I respect your voice of reason and I'm not advocating mudslinging or spin room antics BUT, you understand that it happens in every presisdential campaign and it will in this one -sooner or later. If we are to compete we have to first make it to that point and then our man needs to be prepared for that and come across as presidential doing it. There's nothing wrong with being honorable and humble but as the leader and protector of our nation, he needs a big stick to accompany that soft speach. I do believe there are some people that won't make the leap unless they feel he can lead.

Just my opinion.

RPinSEAZ
12-17-2007, 09:54 PM
u have all bought into an MSM myth that negative ads dont work...

History proves otherwise...The aggressor wins

Show me a presidential candidate who did not attack and I'll show u a loser

1964...LBJ attacked a passive Goldwater as a warmonger (lol)......He won

1988..Bush Sr. attacked a passive Dukakis for paroling a rapist murderer...He won

1992...Clinton attacked Bush for breaking his "read my lips, no new taxes pledge"...He won

1976....Carter attacked a Ford over his pardon of Nixon....He won

1989...Reagan attacked Carter on communism ...He won

1992..Buchanan attacked Dole RELENTLESSLY in NH...He won

2004...Bush's proxies attacked Kerry's war record....He won

Yall keep deluding yourself with this "play nice" garbage and see where we end up.

These are all General election wins. We're in the primaries where we have to win over republicans, not bash their favorite candidates.

Sematary
12-17-2007, 09:57 PM
hard hitting TV commercials agaisnt the Hucskter and Romney would give RP credibility...By forcing the "front runners" to defend themselves against his attacks, he establishs himself as a player

Ron Paul attacks messages, not people.

Oliver
12-17-2007, 10:02 PM
Oliver,

I respect your voice of reason and I'm not advocating mudslinging or spin room antics BUT, you understand that it happens in every presisdential campaign and it will in this one -sooner or later. If we are to compete we have to first make it to that point and then our man needs to be prepared for that and come across as presidential doing it. There's nothing wrong with being honorable and humble but as the leader and protector of our nation, he needs a big stick to accompany that soft speach. I do believe there are some people that won't make the leap unless they feel he can lead.

Just my opinion.

I fully understand.

What you may fail to see is that the other
Candidates are already working on these things,
especially since the rise of Huckabee.

So there is no reason to rely on mudslinging.
This doesn't get Ron Paul's name out. You
might end up with another Bush-Genius in
the White House, like Bullyani.

And Ron wouldn't support this anyway without
being attacked by others.

So let the others throw dirt at each other and
let's keep our and Ron's name out of it. Even
talking about it could be used against us at
a later point in time ... AKA:


"Look, the Paul Grassroots did it:
RP must directly attack Huckster and Romney" (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=647940#post647940)

realist
12-17-2007, 10:16 PM
I hope your right. When we finish top 3 in Iowa and top 2 in NH, I'll be sure to give you your due for being correct. About the only fear I have going forward is that it's only going to get harder from here and it's already hard enough being all but ignored. Where Dr. Pauls wise calm demeanor has had mass appeal to many, I fear too much pacifism will work against us and show weakness.

And please understand, we may define throwing dirt differently. I'm advocating articulating and defending where our differences are on the issues and record , truthfully. If that's dirty, I fear I may have to start believing the old media about our chances. That's not shameful- that's educating the dis-interested and good campaigning in my view.

koob
12-17-2007, 10:20 PM
I think RP should stick to his own message.

As soon as you go in attack mode, you are showing signs of desperation. Think about the other candidates who have resorted to this tactic and what happened.

The best position is to be the one who is being attacked. That tells the voters who is winning.

desperation maybe but they also get a ton of attention. and right now ron paul needs the attention. and the best part is, he's almost impossible to attack unless you think the war is a GOOD thing.

saahmed
12-17-2007, 10:34 PM
No! Iowans hate negativity and attack ads. That is one reason Obama has gained on Hillary.

conner_condor
12-17-2007, 10:35 PM
They won't do it. Huck turned down the chance to defend his self about the dumond case on live tv. They had 2 of the parole board members on and Huck was invited to confront them but he would not go. He turned the invite down.

idiom
12-17-2007, 10:38 PM
Attack ads need to wait until February. RP is pretty good at timing, don't get anxious.