Converting a ProWar Islamic Extremist type..

[ionlyknowy]

Here is my response... any suggestions?

So you are saying that 9/11 was an excuse to invade Iraq to prevent Iran from spreading it's Islamic extremism to it? Dont you remember, we first were attacked by terrorists on 9/11 (Osama). Osama was supposed to be and maybe still is in Afghanistan/Pakistan border. Go look at a map, Afghanistan/Pakistan doesnt even border Iraq. Actually it is buffered by Iran. Most people dont even make this connection.

Then our attention is diverted, and we are told Iraq has WMD's. So we invade a country over 600 miles away from our Afghanistan/Pakistan/Osama campaign. But did we find WMD's NOPE!

Now we are being told that Iran has WMD's or could develop them. Of course this would be the next in line... it is the country that sandwiches Afghan. and Iraq. An intelligence report was recently released that says Iran discontinued it's efforts for nuclear weapons in 2003. Now we are told that we should invade because "they might try it again in the future"

We already control Pakistan due to the fact that we put the current guy in charge into power.

So what do you get? If we take Iran, then notice Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and Iran all touch borders with each other. If we control this large land mass, then we control the middle east, and all of it's natural resources (or Islamic extremists).

Do you not know that Islamic extremists exist in every country. The nationality of most suicide bombers in Iraq hail from Saudi Arabia. Should we invade them to?

You will never get rid of every Islamic extremist unless you invade every country in the world and implement a police state (where every move you make is documented and monitored)

The cost to do such a thing would be enormous. Our current efforts cost $1,000,000,000,000 per year, (that's 1 Trillion). The US entire GDP is only 13 Trillion/year. We currently have a national debt of $9 Trillion. If we were to conquer every country then this debt would go to astronomical levels.

To support such spending we would need to either print money (which causes inflation (devalues your dollar, less buying power)), and/or borrow from other countries (meaning they will own us, even though we are conquering them). Is that even possible? If our debt gets too high, then other countries will stop having faith in the value of our currency. This means that they will no longer want to lend us back our money that we spend on their imports to our country. This means the value of the dollar on the open market will tank (just like it is currently). Meaning you have less buying power. If we continue down this road, our economy will go into a deep recession and we may not recover. Imagine our country declaring bankruptcy. No other country would ever ever want to loan us money. Then we would be in true isolation.

Many people believe 9/11 was used opportunistically to invade Iraq under the guise of preventing the spread of Islamic extremism, but the real intent is to spread the goal of a one world government and/or to secure natural resources.

But no one has addressed the possiblity of merging the two conflicting thoughts. Maybe there is a goal of one world government, and police states for THE ENTIRE WORLD, all at the same time making Islamic extremism a thing of the past.

Islamic extremist want a one world Caliphate government, under Sharia Islamic law.
the only difference is that the Islamic Caliphate is conquering not through invasion, but through converts (voting Iran's ahmadinejad into power).

We are using the method of conquering. Meaning we must pay to support such activities. Converting peoples minds is free. No bombs or guns needed.

If we do not change our tactics of fighting this Islamic extremism V. rest of world battle, and do not switch from conquering to converting minds, we will see the end of the US in our lifetimes (through economic collapse).

[RP-Republican]

Petrodollar Theories of the War
http://www.tacomapjh.org/petrodollartheories.htm

The Slow Death of the US Dollar
http://www.arabisto.com/p_blogEntry.cfm?blogEntryID=923

Protection of the dollar was the more likely reason we went into Iraq not a one world government

[Adamsa]

Just list American activities in the Middle East and ask him "won't at least some of that piss someone off enough to attack?"

[theseus51]

One of my favorite articles. Nothing about religion, but it's interesting and relevant nonetheless.

Al Qaeda's economic war against the United States

http://www.iags.org/n0124052.htm

[zmall88]

I am a Muslim. Islamic radicalism as it is referred to as is a problem for both Muslims and Non-Muslims around the world. By Islamic radicalism I mean the bombing and killing of innocent people.
The only reason extremism has been able to take root in Muslim countries because of the kind of shit muslims countries have been going through for the past 100 years at the hands of the rest of the world. frustration and the lack of an outlet (The colonizers didnt leave much political structure or order when they left) lead extremism to become the last resort for some muslims. not excusing anyone, but u gotta put stuff in perspective.

we have ruthless dictators, occupiers, colonizers, and now extremists killing and ruining us.

In the '80s it was popular to blame Israel, America and the USSR and the UN/world in general. why? America supports Israel, Israel occupies palestenian land, terrorizes the people there, blah blah blah....and then America goes around the world championing freedom and human rights. America looks hypocritical and like an oppressor. America also then support ruthless dictators in Muslim countries (saddam hussein is a case in example) and assasinates legitimate muslim rulers just because it doesnt suit their interests (moussadegh? king faisal? zia ul haq?). American also puts up bases in many muslim countries, offending many people because it looks like an occupation. Russia supports oppressive leftist governments in Muslim countries (afghanistan? syria? egypt? libya?), also invades them and thus incurs the general pissed offness of muslims.
Muslims kick russia out of afghanistan, culminates in the fall of the USSR, muslims believe they have defeated one of their main oppressors. but wait pretty soon, russia is killing a lot of muslims in chechnya. in any case, many oppressive governments in muslim countries have no support now...muslims are hoping the governments will fall....but they dont...they become more repressive.
Israel can't be stopped from killing muslims until US support for it is withdrawn goes the traditional muslim thinking. thus, the US must be encouraged to stop funding Israel's war against the palestenians. governments try and try, thus the OIL EMBARGO....arab governments try to stop Israels oppression of the palestenians by invading it and destroying it....doesnt work...the US comes to Israel's rescue. thus frustrations go amock.
some people become disillusioned with everything and believe the only way difference can be made is by killing innocent people to make a political statement. they twist religion to justify their obviously criminal acts, because a person cannot kill another person without justifying to him/herself.
thus come suicide attacks against non muslim soldiers. then non muslim civilians. pretty soon these renegades decide that they need to topple repressive muslim governments....so they start killing muslim government workers...then they decide that anybody who does not help them automatically becomes an agent for the enemy and thus they start killing other muslims (bombing in saudi arabia, jordan, morroco, turkey, pakistan, now iraq etc..).

this is a huge problem. there are two things that can be done:
1) muslims start educating their children about Islam and not just leave them to start discovering it through the lens of some disillusioned extremist. the saudis are doing a lot for this. they fund islamic scholars to educate people the basics of the religion so that whenever anyone comes to misguide them, they know how to respond
2) the superpowers stop meddling in muslim countries.

I'm not putting the blame on anyone here but just putting stuff in perspective. We're all human.

muslims want a caliphate, yeah they do. but not in America! and not to attack America! not to kill non muslims!, just cuz they want a democratic government with freedoms that follow their own values. they want a government that runs across the muslim world and doesnt divide them based on nationality/race (like the colonizers left them). theres nothing wrong with this.....right to self-determination i guess.

There was a muslim caliphate for almost all the last 1400 years. The last muslim caliphate was abolished in 1921 in turkey. spain was muslim for 700 years until the bloody reconquista when most were forced to convert to christianity, die or leave the country. they were at the door of europe for 700 years....if muslims were such bloodsucking killers....why isnt all of europe muslim?
there were good times, and bad times. good caliphs, bad caliphs. but i dont understand why people just dont research and get to know for themselves that muslims are not a threat to anyone thats not attacking, killing them.
we're cool people and are traditionally very cool with christians. when the prophet and his first band of followers were being persecuted by the pagan arabs, the first immigration his companions made was to Christian ethopia. they were accepted and welcomed there. the prophet prayed for the ethopian king when he died.

Like I said, I'm a muslim and I'm a Ron Paul supporter. I wish we had leaders like him throughout the Muslim world. I like his message of freedom and believe it is a Islamic message. He is the only candidate ever to speak sense on foreign policy and I fervently wish he wins so that the world could be more peaceful. Less killing, less people suffering, less people dying everyday. He is the only candidate that seems to give any sort of value to non american lives (700,000 iraqis killed since the invasion just hurts); that shows how honest and humane he is.

I'm not looking for an argument, but just giving some more perspective on this issue as a non US citizen living in the US.

Wasn't it Madison who said that if oppression or tyranny ever comes to this country, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy?

[ionlyknowy]

I am a Muslim. Islamic radicalism as it is referred to as is a problem for both Muslims and Non-Muslims around the world. By Islamic radicalism I mean the bombing and killing of innocent people.
The only reason extremism has been able to take root in Muslim countries because of the kind of shit muslims countries have been going through for the past 100 years at the hands of the rest of the world. frustration and the lack of an outlet (The colonizers didnt leave much political structure or order when they left) lead extremism to become the last resort for some muslims. not excusing anyone, but u gotta put stuff in perspective.

we have ruthless dictators, occupiers, colonizers, and now extremists killing and ruining us.

In the '80s it was popular to blame Israel, America and the USSR and the UN/world in general. why? America supports Israel, Israel occupies palestenian land, terrorizes the people there, blah blah blah....and then America goes around the world championing freedom and human rights. America looks hypocritical and like an oppressor. America also then support ruthless dictators in Muslim countries (saddam hussein is a case in example) and assasinates legitimate muslim rulers just because it doesnt suit their interests (moussadegh? king faisal? zia ul haq?). American also puts up bases in many muslim countries, offending many people because it looks like an occupation. Russia supports oppressive leftist governments in Muslim countries (afghanistan? syria? egypt? libya?), also invades them and thus incurs the general pissed offness of muslims.
Muslims kick russia out of afghanistan, culminates in the fall of the USSR, muslims believe they have defeated one of their main oppressors. but wait pretty soon, russia is killing a lot of muslims in chechnya. in any case, many oppressive governments in muslim countries have no support now...muslims are hoping the governments will fall....but they dont...they become more repressive.
Israel can't be stopped from killing muslims until US support for it is withdrawn goes the traditional muslim thinking. thus, the US must be encouraged to stop funding Israel's war against the palestenians. governments try and try, thus the OIL EMBARGO....arab governments try to stop Israels oppression of the palestenians by invading it and destroying it....doesnt work...the US comes to Israel's rescue. thus frustrations go amock.
some people become disillusioned with everything and believe the only way difference can be made is by killing innocent people to make a political statement. they twist religion to justify their obviously criminal acts, because a person cannot kill another person without justifying to him/herself.
thus come suicide attacks against non muslim soldiers. then non muslim civilians. pretty soon these renegades decide that they need to topple repressive muslim governments....so they start killing muslim government workers...then they decide that anybody who does not help them automatically becomes an agent for the enemy and thus they start killing other muslims (bombing in saudi arabia, jordan, morroco, turkey, pakistan, now iraq etc..).

this is a huge problem. there are two things that can be done:
1) muslims start educating their children about Islam and not just leave them to start discovering it through the lens of some disillusioned extremist. the saudis are doing a lot for this. they fund islamic scholars to educate people the basics of the religion so that whenever anyone comes to misguide them, they know how to respond
2) the superpowers stop meddling in muslim countries.

I'm not putting the blame on anyone here but just putting stuff in perspective. We're all human.

muslims want a caliphate, yeah they do. but not in America! and not to attack America! not to kill non muslims!, just cuz they want a democratic government with freedoms that follow their own values. they want a government that runs across the muslim world and doesnt divide them based on nationality/race (like the colonizers left them). theres nothing wrong with this.....right to self-determination i guess.

There was a muslim caliphate for almost all the last 1400 years. The last muslim caliphate was abolished in 1921 in turkey. spain was muslim for 700 years until the bloody reconquista when most were forced to convert to christianity, die or leave the country. they were at the door of europe for 700 years....if muslims were such bloodsucking killers....why isnt all of europe muslim?
there were good times, and bad times. good caliphs, bad caliphs. but i dont understand why people just dont research and get to know for themselves that muslims are not a threat to anyone thats not attacking, killing them.
we're cool people and are traditionally very cool with christians. when the prophet and his first band of followers were being persecuted by the pagan arabs, the first immigration his companions made was to Christian ethopia. they were accepted and welcomed there. the prophet prayed for the ethopian king when he died.

Like I said, I'm a muslim and I'm a Ron Paul supporter. I wish we had leaders like him throughout the Muslim world. I like his message of freedom and believe it is a Islamic message. He is the only candidate ever to speak sense on foreign policy and I fervently wish he wins so that the world could be more peaceful. Less killing, less people suffering, less people dying everyday. He is the only candidate that seems to give any sort of value to non american lives (700,000 iraqis killed since the invasion just hurts); that shows how honest and humane he is.

I'm not looking for an argument, but just giving some more perspective on this issue as a non US citizen living in the US.

Wasn't it Madison who said that if oppression or tyranny ever comes to this country, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy?

The only problem I think is that most Americans believe that Muslims want a Caliphate for the entire world. This is why I think Huckabee is so popular among Christians. They see him as a Christian who "gets" that there is a "struggle" between Christianity and the Caliphate.

It is true that every religion believes that theirs is the correct one. Therefore, they want to bring or convert others to the correct side.

It may be true that Muslims do not necessarily want a Caliphate in America, but if it were to ever come to pass then they would welcome it and see to it that it too root.

It doesnt help that the media and our politicians have painted a picture that is more extreme than what it really is.. We are constantly bombarded by scenes of the middle east, and terrorist activities, and specials on Islamic extremism. Every pundit, screams terrorism terrorism at every chance they get.

Even if Christians were correct in their assumptions that Muslims are pushing for a Caliphate for the entire world, Christians should not resist this through force, but through conversion of minds through peace and through logic.

I just think that Christians have been misled by the current administration. It has been a good 8 years now, and most people cannot remember what happened 5 years ago. Christians have slowly been transformed into a people that "love and forgive their enemies" "and treat your neighbor as you would want to be treated"
To a people that are scared of something, they feel threatened, pursued...

Many Christians do not realize that fear can and is being used to manipulate the populace. Christians are a very large voting block in the US, if you garner their support, then you will win the election.

I was watching a CNN report tonight and it said that the Christian voting block in between 50-80 million. If they are mobilized it will deliver an election.

Therefore, you must put them in fear, and offer a way to protect them from their fears. And Islamic extremism is a perfect conduit for this sort of tactic. It does exist but on the level that we are made to believe, I doubt.

It is just so hard to undo what has been done by the past 8 years of conditioning. Nothing that you can say to these people will convince them that nonintervention is the best policy.

So my thing is to tell them,.... ok even if it was a good policy to be an interventionist, we still cannot support it on a magnitude like we have today. Our economy will fail, and we will not be able to do anything at that point.